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View Full Version : Down on Hailey and Pioli WHY?



matthewschiefs
09-15-2009, 01:43 PM
OK so I have Noticed that after the First game of the season many fans are one of two mindsets. A. despite the loss you are sort of encouraged by what you saw from the team. Or B. You have decided that Scott Pioli and Todd Hailey are horrible and have failed in there jobs. To the people who are in the B area why lets look at what we have seen so far from the new management of the chiefs.

First the Chiefs while losing games yes are not just sitting pat. Even yesterday you saw the Chiefs make a signing of a WR an area of need. That if nothing else is an improvement from the past few seasons. Pioli and Hailey will not take failure and that is a good thing.

To those who say all Pioli has done is sign former Pats Players that is a step up from what the chiefs have. Add to that that it is really the safe thing for Pioli to do. You have to go with players that you KNOW can get the job done. Yes the Pats let them go but the Pats are in a much better position then the chiefs at this point so just because they were let go by the Pats does NOT mean that they can not help the chiefs in some way.

Now for Hailey. Yes he has not won a game yet as a head coach but look at what he has. He came into a Bad football team. Did anyone in there right mind RELAY think that the Chiefs could Win in Baltimore. Hailey did pretty much all he could do as a head coach. He coached his team to be in a position to win the game the Chiefs were tied late in the game at 24. Yes he did not wow anyone with the play calling but i will say again that he was in a bad spot. Not having the guy YOU have chosen to be your starter at QB of course you are going to tone things down.

Simply put while the Chiefs have not won a game including the preseason the signs are if anything good for the chiefs. There has defiantly been a change in the way that the chiefs go about things. Pioli has proved that he will continue to do anything that he can to help this team at anytime. Even after the season has began. Its still a wait and see on both but I don't see why many have already given up on the pair of Scoot Pioli and Todd Hailey. Its far to early for that.

m0ef0e
09-15-2009, 02:51 PM
nah... let's get herm back... :sign0153::sign0010::mob:

(don't hang me, im kidding)

Seriously, tho. I agree with your post. :bananen_smilies046::sign0098:

matthewschiefs
09-15-2009, 04:56 PM
nah... let's get herm back... :sign0153::sign0010::mob:

(don't hang me, im kidding)

Seriously, tho. I agree with your post. :bananen_smilies046::sign0098:

:mob: GET HIM lol

KC Maniac
09-15-2009, 05:03 PM
I agree with your post mostly...But the thing is that I am in another category (lets call it Category C)..I think I am one of the few (at least from what I have read here) that would be in Category C, so I do agree most seem to be A or B....But just in case there are any other C's out there...

I think you left out a category so I will describe it:

Category C

I am not encouraged by much that I saw on the field on Sunday, so I can't be in category A really. Also, I haven't at all decided Pioli and Hailey are horrible, or even Bad...In fact I am very excited to have them as our new Staff...So I cannot be in Category B...

Therefore in my mind, Category C people are those who realize that we got rid of 30 players from the 53 man roster and that this is a work in progress, and absolutely another building season. Category C People know that we will not be 8-8, this WILL be a losing season. Category C people are not blaming Croyle, nor are they Blaming Pioli or Hailey just yet, but that we just do not have the talent to be winning a ton of football games this year. This is evidenced by the fact that of the 30 people on the roster last season who are no longer on the roster, only something like 2 of them found employment in the NFL this season...and one was Tony G. Category C people are willing to give Hailey and Pioli the rest of this season and the draft and next off season to make even more changes, but beyond that our patience will be tested.

In short, Category C people welcome Pioli and Hailey and are still excited and hopeful that in 1-2 seasons this team can be a winner, but are disappointed by the poor showing of the team on Sunday against the Ravens...and disappointed by the lousy showing in pre-season as well by especially the o-line.

I am Category C.

m0ef0e
09-15-2009, 05:46 PM
Category C people sound very level-headed and realistic.

I tend to be a huge homer so I'm gonna have to go with A tho... lol

slc chief
09-15-2009, 06:11 PM
anybody who thinks they can judge pioli and haley from one offseason and one regular season game is truly an idiot.i think the team is headed in the right direction.more discipline and in better shape.i also noticed croyle showed alot more emotion after losing sunday than he did all of last year wich tells me the players actualy care.that is a good thing

rcgamer
09-15-2009, 06:37 PM
I think most of the people in the B category already had made up their minds that they didn't like Haley.

matthewschiefs
09-15-2009, 07:12 PM
I agree with your post mostly...But the thing is that I am in another category (lets call it Category C)..I think I am one of the few (at least from what I have read here) that would be in Category C, so I do agree most seem to be A or B....But just in case there are any other C's out there...

I think you left out a category so I will describe it:

Category C

I am not encouraged by much that I saw on the field on Sunday, so I can't be in category A really. Also, I haven't at all decided Pioli and Hailey are horrible, or even Bad...In fact I am very excited to have them as our new Staff...So I cannot be in Category B...

Therefore in my mind, Category C people are those who realize that we got rid of 30 players from the 53 man roster and that this is a work in progress, and absolutely another building season. Category C People know that we will not be 8-8, this WILL be a losing season. Category C people are not blaming Croyle, nor are they Blaming Pioli or Hailey just yet, but that we just do not have the talent to be winning a ton of football games this year. This is evidenced by the fact that of the 30 people on the roster last season who are no longer on the roster, only something like 2 of them found employment in the NFL this season...and one was Tony G. Category C people are willing to give Hailey and Pioli the rest of this season and the draft and next off season to make even more changes, but beyond that our patience will be tested.

In short, Category C people welcome Pioli and Hailey and are still excited and hopeful that in 1-2 seasons this team can be a winner, but are disappointed by the poor showing of the team on Sunday against the Ravens...and disappointed by the lousy showing in pre-season as well by especially the o-line.

I am Category C.

Category C is at the point the category i am in as well. I am encourged by the direction that i have seen from the chiefs but loseing is still loseing. Untill we see the Chiefs win we wont no that hailey and pioli are a good fit for the chiefs. I just dont understand the people who have given up after 1 real game. Hopefuly in the next couple years everyone is in A and the Chiefs will be at the top of the league GO CHIEFS!!!!

CapitalT
09-15-2009, 08:15 PM
I can see why people could be excited with the Haley and Pioli. I'm convinced that getting Pioli was a good move. For me however, although I am not super down on Haley, I am not encouraged either.

I think that getting rid of your offensive coordinator right before the season starts is not the best of moves. Particularly as a new head coach.

I am also not excited to see he started Croyle rather than Thigpen. I don't like Croyle as a leader ... or a player either.

Haley is the coach. He's probably forgotten more football than I'll ever know. All I'm hoping right now is that beat the Raiders ... twice ... by a lot.

josh1971
09-15-2009, 08:34 PM
I'm a category C fella, too. I'm not too worried yet.

But CapitalT, he started Croyle because, frankly, Thigpen stunk the joint up in pre-season, and Cassell needed a bit more time to make sure the knee was 100%.

And I think we can all agree that what's most important is smashing the Raiders every time we face them.

jb

McLovin
09-15-2009, 08:42 PM
I'm a category C fella, too. I'm not too worried yet.

But CapitalT, he started Croyle because, frankly, Thigpen stunk the joint up in pre-season, and Cassell needed a bit more time to make sure the knee was 100%.

And I think we can all agree that what's most important is smashing the Raiders every time we face them.

jb
This was lost on smiling Herm. The Arrowhead Advantage was lost with smiling Herm. and hearing him talk not I believe he truly hated the Chiefs through the time he was here, and the destruction he did was by design.

If I see nothing else encouraging this week other then Haley bringing back the Raider Haters, then I will consider it a good week. Oh yea and a huge win, not because this team needs a win (although they do) not because I am tired of losing (although I am) just because it is the FN Faiders and they suck.

Hayvern
09-15-2009, 09:56 PM
I can see why people could be excited with the Haley and Pioli. I'm convinced that getting Pioli was a good move. For me however, although I am not super down on Haley, I am not encouraged either.

I think that getting rid of your offensive coordinator right before the season starts is not the best of moves. Particularly as a new head coach.

I am also not excited to see he started Croyle rather than Thigpen. I don't like Croyle as a leader ... or a player either.

Haley is the coach. He's probably forgotten more football than I'll ever know. All I'm hoping right now is that beat the Raiders ... twice ... by a lot.

I too am not very excited about Haley, I think Pioli is a guy that knows how to get players, but I am not sure that Haley is the guy that knows what to do with them. I think he is egotistical and that is something we do not need. I think him performing both roles, head coach and OC is a question mark at best and idiotic at worse.

I hope he can do what he has been hired to do, I have to root for him because he is going to be here a while, but I just don't think this guy is making wise decisions. I guess he should be allowed to make a few mistakes though so I will be quiet about him for a while. I think he is a step up from Edwards, but only about as much as Goff being a step up from Niswanger.

Bike
09-15-2009, 10:03 PM
I too am not very excited about Haley, I think Pioli is a guy that knows how to get players, but I am not sure that Haley is the guy that knows what to do with them. I think he is egotistical and that is something we do not need. I think him performing both roles, head coach and OC is a question mark at best and idiotic at worse.

I hope he can do what he has been hired to do, I have to root for him because he is going to be here a while, but I just don't think this guy is making wise decisions. I guess he should be allowed to make a few mistakes though so I will be quiet about him for a while. I think he is a step up from Edwards, but only about as much as Goff being a step up from Niswanger.
I think what Haley has done/will do is hold players accountable. Something our previous coach didn't do. That alone will be a drastic improvement. He'll be allright...

Chiefster
09-15-2009, 11:51 PM
OK so I have Noticed that after the First game of the season many fans are one of two mindsets. A. despite the loss you are sort of encouraged by what you saw from the team. Or B. You have decided that Scott Pioli and Todd Hailey are horrible and have failed in there jobs. To the people who are in the B area why lets look at what we have seen so far from the new management of the chiefs.

First the Chiefs while losing games yes are not just sitting pat. Even yesterday you saw the Chiefs make a signing of a WR an area of need. That if nothing else is an improvement from the past few seasons. Pioli and Hailey will not take failure and that is a good thing.

To those who say all Pioli has done is sign former Pats Players that is a step up from what the chiefs have. Add to that that it is really the safe thing for Pioli to do. You have to go with players that you KNOW can get the job done. Yes the Pats let them go but the Pats are in a much better position then the chiefs at this point so just because they were let go by the Pats does NOT mean that they can not help the chiefs in some way.

Now for Hailey. Yes he has not won a game yet as a head coach but look at what he has. He came into a Bad football team. Did anyone in there right mind RELAY think that the Chiefs could Win in Baltimore. Hailey did pretty much all he could do as a head coach. He coached his team to be in a position to win the game the Chiefs were tied late in the game at 24. Yes he did not wow anyone with the play calling but i will say again that he was in a bad spot. Not having the guy YOU have chosen to be your starter at QB of course you are going to tone things down.

Simply put while the Chiefs have not won a game including the preseason the signs are if anything good for the chiefs. There has defiantly been a change in the way that the chiefs go about things. Pioli has proved that he will continue to do anything that he can to help this team at anytime. Even after the season has began. Its still a wait and see on both but I don't see why many have already given up on the pair of Scoot Pioli and Todd Hailey. Its far to early for that.

Absolutely!:bananen_smilies046:

Three7s
09-16-2009, 01:06 AM
I too am not very excited about Haley, I think Pioli is a guy that knows how to get players, but I am not sure that Haley is the guy that knows what to do with them. I think he is egotistical and that is something we do not need. I think him performing both roles, head coach and OC is a question mark at best and idiotic at worse.

I hope he can do what he has been hired to do, I have to root for him because he is going to be here a while, but I just don't think this guy is making wise decisions. I guess he should be allowed to make a few mistakes though so I will be quiet about him for a while. I think he is a step up from Edwards, but only about as much as Goff being a step up from Niswanger.
The problem here is, what on earth is he supposed to do to even try to gain your favor? It's not like he can just run on to the field and hit people! Too many people don't like Haley because he yells a lot, but you have to realize that this team deserves it after winning 6 games in two years.

Pro_Angler
09-16-2009, 01:53 AM
I'm a C for sure

Hayvern
09-16-2009, 01:58 AM
The problem here is, what on earth is he supposed to do to even try to gain your favor? It's not like he can just run on to the field and hit people! Too many people don't like Haley because he yells a lot, but you have to realize that this team deserves it after winning 6 games in two years.

Eh, I think he is overrated as a head coach, he might have been an alright OC, but that is a far cry from being a head coach.

I guess we can take a few years for him to learn the job.

AussieChiefsFan
09-16-2009, 02:02 AM
OK so I have Noticed that after the First game of the season many fans are one of two mindsets. A. despite the loss you are sort of encouraged by what you saw from the team. Or B. You have decided that Scott Pioli and Todd Hailey are horrible and have failed in there jobs. To the people who are in the B area why lets look at what we have seen so far from the new management of the chiefs.

First the Chiefs while losing games yes are not just sitting pat. Even yesterday you saw the Chiefs make a signing of a WR an area of need. That if nothing else is an improvement from the past few seasons. Pioli and Hailey will not take failure and that is a good thing.

To those who say all Pioli has done is sign former Pats Players that is a step up from what the chiefs have. Add to that that it is really the safe thing for Pioli to do. You have to go with players that you KNOW can get the job done. Yes the Pats let them go but the Pats are in a much better position then the chiefs at this point so just because they were let go by the Pats does NOT mean that they can not help the chiefs in some way.

Now for Hailey. Yes he has not won a game yet as a head coach but look at what he has. He came into a Bad football team. Did anyone in there right mind RELAY think that the Chiefs could Win in Baltimore. Hailey did pretty much all he could do as a head coach. He coached his team to be in a position to win the game the Chiefs were tied late in the game at 24. Yes he did not wow anyone with the play calling but i will say again that he was in a bad spot. Not having the guy YOU have chosen to be your starter at QB of course you are going to tone things down.

Simply put while the Chiefs have not won a game including the preseason the signs are if anything good for the chiefs. There has defiantly been a change in the way that the chiefs go about things. Pioli has proved that he will continue to do anything that he can to help this team at anytime. Even after the season has began. Its still a wait and see on both but I don't see why many have already given up on the pair of Scoot Pioli and Todd Hailey. Its far to early for that.good piont, I mean it may take a few years to even get to the playoffs I hate to admit....

mejohnm
09-16-2009, 02:14 AM
Heya all,

If I was able to say A, B, or C then I am doing the wrong job and should be working somewhere for an NFL team. Just way too early to tell what will happen. It is just after the first regular season game.

josh1971
09-16-2009, 02:21 AM
Eh, I think he is overrated as a head coach, he might have been an alright OC, but that is a far cry from being a head coach.

I guess we can take a few years for him to learn the job.

He's coached ONE regular season game, for Christ's sake! Don Shula and Hank Stram did that at one point, too. How can you be overrated after only one game?

Chiefster
09-16-2009, 02:23 AM
Heya all,

If I was able to say A, B, or C then I am doing the wrong job and should be working somewhere for an NFL team. Just way too early to tell what will happen. It is just after the first regular season game.

Rep! :D

chief31
09-16-2009, 11:36 AM
I think I would be in catergory A/B. Lol.

I see far more different types of feelings on the matter than two or three though.

I am probably one that many others would like to categorize as a B, as I lack enthusiasm about Pioli/Haley.

But I have, by no stretch of the imagination, "decided that they are terrible".

Idd how the 'A' people are described as "encouraged", while the 'B' people are described as 'decided'.

Having more doubt than faith doesn't mean that I am firm in having already passed judgement.

So, I call my category 'A/B' because I have the cautious, fair view that 'A' was described with. But I lean toward the 'Not liking what I see' sentiment that was attatched to 'B'.

Canada
09-16-2009, 12:00 PM
I think I would be in catergory A/B. Lol.

I see far more different types of feelings on the matter than two or three though.

I am probably one that many others would like to categorize as a B, as I lack enthusiasm about Pioli/Haley.

But I have, by no stretch of the imagination, "decided that they are terrible".

Idd how the 'A' people are described as "encouraged", while the 'B' people are described as 'decided'.

Having more doubt than faith doesn't mean that I am firm in having already passed judgement.

So, I call my category 'A/B' because I have the cautious, fair view that 'A' was described with. But I lean toward the 'Not liking what I see' sentiment that was attatched to 'B'.

Wouldnt it have just been easier to say you are undecied? It dosent always have to be a novel ya know!! :D

chief31
09-16-2009, 12:06 PM
Wouldnt it have just been easier to say you are undecied? It dosent always have to be a novel ya know!! :D

:lol:

I get bored.

Canada
09-16-2009, 01:13 PM
:lol:

I get bored.

So do i....







....reading your posts!! :D

Hayvern
09-16-2009, 04:05 PM
He's coached ONE regular season game, for Christ's sake! Don Shula and Hank Stram did that at one point, too. How can you be overrated after only one game?

You get overrated by a success that you were a part of in a previous regime lending you value to a position you have never, even held before at any level in your career.

That does not mean he cannot work his way into being something remarkable, and I have to work on my patience to allow him to get there.

josh1971
09-16-2009, 04:36 PM
Sorry, but you were insinuating he's overrated as a head coach. I haven't heard anyone even rating him, let alone over-rating him.

I respect your opinion- I just think it's early to be bashing this coach/GM combo.

And that's just my two pennies worth.

jb

drstandley31
09-16-2009, 08:01 PM
hey, we're going to start out 2 - 9 before we start stringing some wins together. That being said, can you imagine how this "rebuilding" year would be if Herm was still here? 0 - 16, and he'd still be saying, well we were pretty close there for a while, just need to execute. It's going to take a few years to get out of the Herm hole, but it's going to happen. We will continue to get better players, that are better coached and winning will be the norm. We just need to stay the course, and I know that's hard.

Connie Jo
09-16-2009, 08:26 PM
Well, to be honest...I'm not one to categorize much, haha. 'Tis what it is' at this point for me...too early for me to judge coaching failure or success.

As far as Haley yelling too much, well...I love it! It's about time! I like a head coach who reveals his thoughts through emotion, body language...positive or negative, if for no other reason other than it shows his heart is dedicated to winning! Even if his approach to winning ends up unsuccessful, at least his heart was in his job!

pbatrucker
09-16-2009, 09:07 PM
Eh, I think he is overrated as a head coach, he might have been an alright OC, but that is a far cry from being a head coach.

I guess we can take a few years for him to learn the job.

Now Vern, in two or three years you will be singing his praises, saying I told you guys how good Haley was.
Honestly, with the personnel he inherited, how can he do the things he wants. Some of you need to wake up and smell the roses. The Chiefs were/are a bad football team. We are getting better and it will be a slow process. If you build a team for the long haul, you do it slowly and for the most part through the draft. If you only get 2 maybe 3 starters a year from the draft, it's going to take time.
One thing for certain, when Pioli gets the job done we will be a contender every year.

DT14PRIEST
09-16-2009, 10:18 PM
whats going on in here!? this thread is too long so I didn't read any of it! So if someone can summarize it in 2 words or less I'd be grateful!

:11:

Vandelay
09-16-2009, 10:34 PM
whats going on in here!? this thread is too long so I didn't read any of it! So if someone can summarize it in 2 words or less I'd be grateful!

:11:
Raiders suck.

DT14PRIEST
09-16-2009, 11:29 PM
Raiders suck.

Is that what this is all about? I thought that was a given; a known fact; an accepted universal law that all people understood save those stuck in the turbulent fringe of near complete insanity otherwise known as Oakland a.k.a the black hole on Earth

Chiefster
09-16-2009, 11:59 PM
Is that what this is all about? I thought that was a given; a known fact; an accepted universal law that all people understood save those stuck in the turbulent fringe of near complete insanity otherwise known as Oakland a.k.a the black hole on Earth


Strong with you, the force is.

Hayvern
09-17-2009, 03:50 AM
Now Vern, in two or three years you will be singing his praises, saying I told you guys how good Haley was.
Honestly, with the personnel he inherited, how can he do the things he wants. Some of you need to wake up and smell the roses. The Chiefs were/are a bad football team. We are getting better and it will be a slow process. If you build a team for the long haul, you do it slowly and for the most part through the draft. If you only get 2 maybe 3 starters a year from the draft, it's going to take time.
One thing for certain, when Pioli gets the job done we will be a contender every year.

No, I won't be saying that I have always said he would be good, I have intellectual honesty (yeah, me and Chiefster might be the only ones), but I will be praising him as a coach if he does manage to make us a contender in three years.

If no contender, then he goes the way of Squirmin Herman.

I will say this, I would have been happy to live with Edwards one more year if it meant we could have gotten Cowar in here!

brish
09-17-2009, 08:23 AM
The difference between Herm and Haley will probably be that the Chiefs will get better and not worse.
Saying that he is the same as Herm if we don't contendt in 3 years is painting it a little to black / white..