Haley keeps his job..........

[Sn@keIze]

How many wins does Haley need to keep his job?

I gave him an extremely good amount since we hired him to improve this team. And considering the knowledge we have now and the team he inhereted.

I say 3-13. If not that then I say "Sorry Haley, you've dealt your cards not the way."

[DT14PRIEST]

I think he needs to win 6 games this year...minimum to keep this team and the FO behind him for another season.

Why 6?

To prove that he was better then the last 2 years of Herm (4-12 and 2-14) by equaling his win total or surpassing it...

7 is probably the goal...

[josh1971]

I think he'll be back next season no matter how many wins we get this year. Fans are a LOT quicker with the hook than GM's and owners are.

[Sn@keIze]

I think he'll be back next season no matter how many wins we get this year. Fans are a LOT quicker with the hook than GM's and owners are.
Even with 0-16?! No way!!!!!!

[brish]

I think he needs to win 6 games this year...minimum to keep this team and the FO behind him for another season.

Why 6?

To prove that he was better then the last 2 years of Herm (4-12 and 2-14) by equaling his win total or surpassing it...

7 is probably the goal...

Longshot..

Pioli and Haley was hired to rebuild this franchise, this isn'y going to happen in 1 year, or 2 years.. Sure there has to be progress made.
But this talk is way too soon!

[josh1971]

Even with 0-16?! No way!!!!!!


Now... really, would a move like that surprise you with some of the other off season moves made so far since Carl and Herm left town?

Suppose Pioli says "Well, we are rebuilding, and another bad one was expected, but this year you've got to get some wins or you're gone".

All I'm saying is it would not surprise me at all to see us retain Haley for one more year, even after 0-16, to see if his second season could improve us.

But at that point, if we were 0-16 in 2009, and start 0-6 or so in 2010, he may wind up getting the axe during the season.

Who knows?

[texaschief]

He HAS to win more than two since he said he could "get 22 guys off the street and win 2 games." I'd say 6 is a good number. If he could win 6 with this currents squad, he deserves to stay.

I HOPE Haley was just a stop-gap until we could bring in Cowher. I still want Cowher at HC and Crennel at DC. I don't really care who the OC is, although I'd bet Haley would stay. If not him, Gailey.

[josh1971]

Bill Cowher- the miracle pill for gridiron suckitude!

[DT14PRIEST]

Longshot..

Pioli and Haley was hired to rebuild this franchise, this isn'y going to happen in 1 year, or 2 years.. Sure there has to be progress made.
But this talk is way too soon!

I don't think so. If he can snag one or two by week 8 the back half of the schedule is set up nicely to finish the season on a positive note.

[josh1971]

I don't think so. If he can snag one or two by week 8 the back half of the schedule is set up nicely to finish the season on a positive note.


Yep- I think the last half of the schedule is much softer than this first part.

Cleveland may not be as terrible as we are, but dammm it they're sure trying:bananen_smilies046:

[doobs_05]

Yep- I think the last half of the schedule is much softer than this first part.

Cleveland may not be as terrible as we are, but dammm it they're sure trying:bananen_smilies046:
Pit. doesn't look too good right now, and Cinnci is looking pretty good. Denver? not sold on them yet

[josh1971]

I'm not really sold on this 3-0 Denver team, either. They scraped by Cinci, who scraped by Pittsburgh.

I too think we could beat the Steelers, especially since it's in arrowhead. *could, beat them.

Of that second half of the schedule, we could probably win 4 of those if we get organized at all.

But I don't see us beating NY or Dallas, while it's possible- however improbable- that we could edge it out against the skins or Bolts before the bye.

jb

[texaschief]

Bill Cowher- the miracle pill for gridiron suckitude!

Not a "miracle pill." He started his career here and he'd probably want to come back. His defenses ran the 3-4 for years. He has a little more experience than Haley.... just a little.

[doobs_05]

I'm not really sold on this 3-0 Denver team, either. They scraped by Cinci, who scraped by Pittsburgh.

I too think we could beat the Steelers, especially since it's in arrowhead. *could, beat them.

Of that second half of the schedule, we could probably win 4 of those if we get organized at all.

But I don't see us beating NY or Dallas, while it's possible- however improbable- that we could edge it out against the skins or Bolts before the bye.

jb


When does Troy get back to Pit. from his Injury....and Pit. only sucks if you pressure Big Ben and i don't see us putting any pressure on him. Redskins i can see us beating. We need a win before the bye week...maybe 2. But i'll be pissed if Haley does not get 1 win against a div. oppenent.

[Sn@keIze]

He HAS to win more than two since he said he could "get 22 guys off the street and win 2 games." .Wow! What an excellent point.

[texaschief]

Wow! What an excellent point.

Yeah. By my count, he's brought in at LEAST 24 new guys:

Quinten Lawrence
Terrance Copper
Mike Goff
Andy Alleman
Ikechuku Ndukwe
Ryan O'Callaghan
Sean Ryan
Jake O'Connell
Bobby Wade
Bobby Engram
Matt Cassel
Tyson Jackson
Alex Magee
Mike Vrabel
Monty Beisel
Corey Mays
Jevon Belcher
Pierre Walters
Donald Washington
Ricardo Colclough
Mike Brown
Thomas Gafford
Matt Guitierrez
Ryan Succop

No excuses for not being able to win 2 games.

[Three7s]

He needs to win 3. If he doesn't, then he'll at least be on the hot seat.

[brish]

He needs to win 3. If he doesn't, then he'll at least be on the hot seat.

I agree.. I had higher hopes to be honest, but it doesn't seem like it's comming together for us early on.
But I think that if we can get a win under our belts, that it might get us going in the right direction, and unify the team.

[pbatrucker]

I'm not sure how much rope Haley has, But in IMO DC and OL coach has to go. I;m hoping Crennel has recovered from his hip replacement and wants to come to KC. There has to be a blocking scheme to improve the OL.
They also have to try someone at OLB with more speed to get a pass rush. Vrabel has lost a step and Hali only knows one move to get to the passer.

[KCraised]

Well, if Haley continues this ridiculously disasterous year, i think HE should be held to his own harsh philosophy....you don't perform immediately, you're gone.....

[yashi]

I honestly think we could go 0-16 THIS season and Haley would still be back next season. Reason being that Pioli has stated many times this will not be a 1 year job. We weren't supposed to be good this year.

[chief31]

Now... really, would a move like that surprise you with some of the other off season moves made so far since Carl and Herm left town?

Suppose Pioli says "Well, we are rebuilding, and another bad one was expected, but this year you've got to get some wins or you're gone".

All I'm saying is it would not surprise me at all to see us retain Haley for one more year, even after 0-16, to see if his second season could improve us.

But at that point, if we were 0-16 in 2009, and start 0-6 or so in 2010, he may wind up getting the axe during the season.

Who knows?

So 0-38? Really?

0-16 gets you fire. Period. Most of the biggest failures of all-time have not done that poorly.

I don't think we will have to worry about that, though.

I'd say, bare minnimum, Haley has to win two games. As long as he wins two games, then he hasn't screwed himself with that "Guys off the street" comment.

However, if he only wins two games, then he needs to go back out onto the street and find a new bunch of "guys off the street".

If it were me? I would fire 2-14. Anything under 5-11 would be on the hotseat.



Well, if Haley continues this ridiculously disasterous year, i think HE should be held to his own harsh philosophy....you don't perform immediately, you're gone.....

Very good point. Rep

[honda522]

I don't think he was get fired this year. Why the hell are we talking about firing a guy after 3 games? There is still 13 games for improvement.

Anyways, he will be the coach next year...unless he quits. Then if we still don't win he might get his head chopped off midseason.

I still believe we can turn around and get us a good healthy dose of 7-9 wins this year.

[texaschief]

I don't think he was get fired this year. Why the hell are we talking about firing a guy after 3 games? There is still 13 games for improvement.

Anyways, he will be the coach next year...unless he quits. Then if we still don't win he might get his head chopped off midseason.

I still believe we can turn around and get us a good healthy dose of 7-9 wins this year.

its not THAT he's losing... it's HOW he's losing. We've seen an EXTREMELY OBVIOUS regression from the 2-14 team from last year... how pathetic is that?

[KCraised]

i agree with the poster above. 0-3 isn't going to get him canned.....YET. But, its the complete incompetency on the field, be it mistakes by inferior player personnel that he was part of bringing in or just lousy play calling by the coaching staff. This team seems like the only way they can win is by luck, not skill.....and that is disturbing

[honda522]

its not THAT he's losing... it's HOW he's losing. We've seen an EXTREMELY OBVIOUS regression from the 2-14 team from last year... how pathetic is that?
Do you realize that last year, we didn't have an offensive TD for like 4 or 5 striaght weeks.
The players dont seem to give a s**t so maybe he is try to send a message to them IDK. but it will change soon.

[yashi]

its not THAT he's losing... it's HOW he's losing. We've seen an EXTREMELY OBVIOUS regression from the 2-14 team from last year... how pathetic is that?

There's not an extremely obvious regression.... we would have never been in a competitive game with the Ravens last year. No chance whatsoever.

[majorwoody]

I'm all for giving haley a shot i did herm BUT!!!!! when you make the same play call's as the last coach 3and24 and run it when your run game is not working then if the shoe fit's wear it TODD EDWARDS!!!! amazing the 14 points that got was off of pass plays..My down the may not work but a leat you have to try it '' What ever happed to Koby Smith anyway's he had more heart than LJ..

[majorwoody]

I ment to say maybe down fiield

[texaschief]

Do you realize that last year, we didn't have an offensive TD for like 4 or 5 striaght weeks.
The players dont seem to give a s**t so maybe he is try to send a message to them IDK. but it will change soon.

No... when was that? Because in actuality, the ONLY weeks the Chiefs didn't score an offensive TD were weeks 5 (Panthers) and 6 (bye).

Call last season's offense gimmick or whatever you want, but they had the 16th best rushing offense and the 20th best passing offense. We're now 22nd and 30th respectively... and look much worse.

[Hayvern]

Anything less then 2-14 and Haley falls on his sword. He has already made that the standard that he is going to be held to with his 22 players off the street remark to Waters.

Anything less than 4 wins and he is at the mercy of Hunt himself. I doubt Pioli will take it upon himself to fire him, but Hunt came out and expected this team to show improvement this year. It will come down to whether Hunt sees improvement or not.

Anything over 4 wins and it will be clear the team is better than it was last year and that we are rebuilding and the rebuilding is working.

I can tell you this though, if Haley does not do a better job preparing this team to win, it will be short lived in Kansas City, whether that be this year, or next year, he will be gone.

[KottkeKU]

Pioli, Cowher (HC), Crennel (DC), Haley (OC)...i like the sound of that : )

[AkChief49]

He HAS to win more than two since he said he could "get 22 guys off the street and win 2 games." I'd say 6 is a good number. If he could win 6 with this currents squad, he deserves to stay.

I HOPE Haley was just a stop-gap until we could bring in Cowher. I still want Cowher at HC and Crennel at DC. I don't really care who the OC is, although I'd bet Haley would stay. If not him, Gailey.
Cowher back in KC=awesome! but if Fox falls in Carolina, say goodbye to that idea.

Not a "miracle pill." He started his career here and he'd probably want to come back. His defenses ran the 3-4 for years. He has a little more experience than Haley.... just a little.
I'm pretty sure he started his career(coaching) in Cleveland and came over with Marty.

[texaschief]

Cowher back in KC=awesome! but if Fox falls in Carolina, say goodbye to that idea.

I'm pretty sure he started his career(coaching) in Cleveland and came over with Marty.

I'm sure you're right.

[IlovetheChiefs]

Won-loss record is the obvious barometer and winning 5 would be an improvement over the past 2 years and would thus make Haley's job very likely secure.

But they'll look at other factors, like how they showed progress and finished the season. For instance, in 2007 the Eagles played pretty poorly and were 5-8. There was a lot of local talk about it being time to end the Andy Reid/ Donovan McNabb era. But then they dominated the last 3 games, and against good teams, to finish 8-8. So even though they missed the playoffs for the 2nd time in 3 years, it seemed like that strong finish at the end may have saved Reid's job.

So likewise for the Chiefs, if they play strong in December and get some wins, Haley would likely be back even if he only had 1 win or less coming into December. But if he gets 3 or 4 wins for the season all spread out every 4 or 5 games or so, he might be on slightly thinner ice.

But yeah, it's very early still and I don't want to give much thought yet about whether he should stay or go after '09. I'm hoping, as we all are, this new Pioli, Haley, Cassel era will work out for us.

[Connie Jo]

I think he'll be back next season no matter how many wins we get this year. Fans are a LOT quicker with the hook than GM's and owners are.

Agree.

[Connie Jo]

Unless he really shows consistent notable mistakes...I tend to think we should be a bit more empathetic to this being Haley's first year as a Head Coach. He's trying to adjust to all the extra responsibilties as a Head Coach, the pressures of proving himself to fans & peers are there, and he's trying to rebuild a losing team from ground up. He has much on his shoulders the first year.

I think if he fails miserably a second year...then eyebrows need to be raised as to if Haley bit off more than he can chew with accepting a Head Coach position.

I know what sometimes appears on the surface to be a bad play call isn't always the case. Coaches have information we as fans don't...& he could have justified reasons for making a call that looks bad to us fans.

[matthewschiefs]

Anything less then 2-14 and Haley falls on his sword. He has already made that the standard that he is going to be held to with his 22 players off the street remark to Waters.

Anything less than 4 wins and he is at the mercy of Hunt himself. I doubt Pioli will take it upon himself to fire him, but Hunt came out and expected this team to show improvement this year. It will come down to whether Hunt sees improvement or not.

Anything over 4 wins and it will be clear the team is better than it was last year and that we are rebuilding and the rebuilding is working.

I can tell you this though, if Haley does not do a better job preparing this team to win, it will be short lived in Kansas City, whether that be this year, or next year, he will be gone.

I dont think hunt would be the one to make the move. Rember Hunt was not the one that realy wanted to fire herm. That was not his choice. So I think Hunt would be patent.

[ChldsPlay]

Wow, a lot of you would have fired Jimmy Johnson in Dallas after his first year. There's some ridiculousness in this thread.

[Sn@keIze]

Wow, a lot of you would have fired Jimmy Johnson in Dallas after his first year. There's some ridiculousness in this thread.What year was Jimmys first year? Was it the year they went 1-15?

[chief31]

Unless he really shows consistent notable mistakes...I tend to think we should be a bit more empathetic to this being Haley's first year as a Head Coach. He's trying to adjust to all the extra responsibilties as a Head Coach, the pressures of proving himself to fans & peers are there, and he's trying to rebuild a losing team from ground up. He has much on his shoulders the first year.

I think if he fails miserably a second year...then eyebrows need to be raised as to if Haley bit off more than he can chew with accepting a Head Coach position.

I know what sometimes appears on the surface to be a bad play call isn't always the case. Coaches have information we as fans don't...& he could have justified reasons for making a call that looks bad to us fans.

How much empathy is Haley to be rewarded, considering how much empathy he awards these players?

How many years did he give Damien Macintosh, Dwayne Bowe, Derrick Johnson, Bernard Pollard and others?

He has set a tone at "just a couple mistakes gets you demoted, or even fired".

If Haley fails to get two wins from this team, this season, then he should resign. If not, then he should be fired.

[KCraised]

I agree. He should practice what he preaches.
Man, Josh McDaniels is sure making his mark....F***

[Hayvern]

Wow, a lot of you would have fired Jimmy Johnson in Dallas after his first year. There's some ridiculousness in this thread.

You see, this is the kind of BS statement that gets people like me all riled up.

First, Jimmy Johnson had already established himself as a very good college coach who had shown he had the ability to win games. Out of 8 years of college head coaching he had losing seasons only twice and when he was in Miami he had three years where his team was ranked in the top 3 and one year played in a National Championship.

He clearly knew how to put together a winning team and knew how to coach football.

By comparison, Haley has NEVER been a head coach, he was a Wide Receiver coach for 11 years and an offensive coordinator for one. He has never had to control a football team, win over the players, motivate the players, get their heads in the game. He has never proven that he can win games. He suffers from the same problem that Herm had, inexperience.

[Pro_Angler]

Hailey unfortunetely has about a 3 year free ride no matter what cause Pioli doesnt want to look the fool.

[DT14PRIEST]

You see, this is the kind of BS statement that gets people like me all riled up...

All of that is good in retrospect but it doesn't change the fact that people were literally calling for his (Jimmy's) head after that season. Track record or no track record in college it didn't matter he wasn't winning and people wanted him ousted and calling for Tom Landry to come back.

So in essence what that guy said is true...people still react the same way to losses.

Whether the results are equivalent remains to be seen.

[Chiefster]

Now... really, would a move like that surprise you with some of the other off season moves made so far since Carl and Herm left town?

Suppose Pioli says "Well, we are rebuilding, and another bad one was expected, but this year you've got to get some wins or you're gone".

All I'm saying is it would not surprise me at all to see us retain Haley for one more year, even after 0-16, to see if his second season could improve us.

But at that point, if we were 0-16 in 2009, and start 0-6 or so in 2010, he may wind up getting the axe during the season.

Who knows?

Kind of what I was thinking.

[Chiefster]

You see, this is the kind of BS statement that gets people like me all riled up.

First, Jimmy Johnson had already established himself as a very good college coach who had shown he had the ability to win games. Out of 8 years of college head coaching he had losing seasons only twice and when he was in Miami he had three years where his team was ranked in the top 3 and one year played in a National Championship.

He clearly knew how to put together a winning team and knew how to coach football.

By comparison, Haley has NEVER been a head coach, he was a Wide Receiver coach for 11 years and an offensive coordinator for one. He has never had to control a football team, win over the players, motivate the players, get their heads in the game. He has never proven that he can win games. He suffers from the same problem that Herm had, inexperience.

Well, except the Chiefs was not Herm's first head coach rodeo; so to speak.

Just sayin. :D

[ChldsPlay]

You see, this is the kind of BS statement that gets people like me all riled up.

First, Jimmy Johnson had already established himself as a very good college coach who had shown he had the ability to win games. Out of 8 years of college head coaching he had losing seasons only twice and when he was in Miami he had three years where his team was ranked in the top 3 and one year played in a National Championship.

He clearly knew how to put together a winning team and knew how to coach football.

By comparison, Haley has NEVER been a head coach, he was a Wide Receiver coach for 11 years and an offensive coordinator for one. He has never had to control a football team, win over the players, motivate the players, get their heads in the game. He has never proven that he can win games. He suffers from the same problem that Herm had, inexperience.


Well then, if that's how you're gonna play it, Haley should be given even more leeway than JJ was because he's still new to being a head coach. If all Jimmy had done in college proved he was a sure thing, then he should be held to an even higher standard, and 1-15 for college coach with all those accolades looks worse than it would for someone who is a first time head coach.

[drstandley31]

Nobody, including the great Bill Cowher could do much better with this squad. Nobody will ever know exactly what Herm/Carl were building towards, but it wasn't the kind of players that these guys want. And until they get the players they want, we're in for a lot of the same. Way too many holes to fill. and some of those holes are currently filled with guys that don't have enough years left to help. So those holes will open up again. we will not be a winning team for another 3 years. Had we hired a decent coach 3 years ago, we'd be looking at a much better team right now. So we better just suck it up, drink till the pain stops, and look to the future, cuz the present blows.

[Hayvern]

Well then, if that's how you're gonna play it, Haley should be given even more leeway than JJ was because he's still new to being a head coach. If all Jimmy had done in college proved he was a sure thing, then he should be held to an even higher standard, and 1-15 for college coach with all those accolades looks worse than it would for someone who is a first time head coach.

So to put it in your line of thinking.

Let's say you want your house remodeled. You know it is really bad inside and out and you want to have it gutted and rebuilt.

Who do you give more time to get the job done before replacing him. A contractor that has done the work many times before and has shown his knowledge and ability, or a guy that watches This Old House every weekend, but has never been in charge of a house like this before?

I guess it comes down to how well you love your house and how long you are willing to have it be in shambles before you bring in someone who knows what they are doing to fix it right.

[Hayvern]

Well, except the Chiefs was not Herm's first head coach rodeo; so to speak.

Just sayin. :D

Right. I guess a way to say it better is that Herm suffered from no history in changing teams to make them winners.

[Bike]

Nobody, including the great Bill Cowher could do much better with this squad. Nobody will ever know exactly what Herm/Carl were building towards, but it wasn't the kind of players that these guys want. And until they get the players they want, we're in for a lot of the same. Way too many holes to fill. and some of those holes are currently filled with guys that don't have enough years left to help. So those holes will open up again. we will not be a winning team for another 3 years. Had we hired a decent coach 3 years ago, we'd be looking at a much better team right now. So we better just suck it up, drink till the pain stops, and look to the future, cuz the present blows.
I think Cowher would have built the lines job 1.

[yashi]

Haley is ridiculous in the fact that he seems willing to lose football games or put his team in less of a position to win to prove a point.

Charles fumbled the opening kick. OK, he made a mistake. Return guys fumble sometimes. So now you give him 2 carries the rest of the game because of it (which he got 24 yards from I might add)? He's averaging 5.7 yards a carry this year, after 5.4 last year. He's CLEARLY the back on the team that gives us the best chance of scoring a touchdown when he's on the field, and yet LJ continues to get the bulk of the carries while averaging 2.6 yards a carry? Why not punish LJ for sucking and give him less carries? Charles is getting more than twice the yardage LJ is getting every time he touches the ball.

Was DJ even playing yesterday? Is anyone here going to try to convince me that Demorrio Williams is a better linebacker than Derrick Johnson? I'd love to hear Haley try to convince me of that one. Oh, Haley likes him more even though he's clearly the less superior of the two, so he gets the playing time. Makes sense.

I'm done with Haley until he puts a win on the board. Until then I consider him a poor NFL coach. Sorry but if you're running the ball in situations where it makes no sense whatsoever and getting stuffed in the backfield or at the line of scrimmage every time, you're a bad play caller. If you're admitting that you know a game is out of reach and using that as an excuse to run the ball in the 4th quarter down multiple touchdowns, you're a bad head coach. Crazier things happen in the NFL. At least TRY to win the game.

This season has been far more difficult to watch than last season, and that's saying a lot.

[ChldsPlay]

So to put it in your line of thinking.

Let's say you want your house remodeled. You know it is really bad inside and out and you want to have it gutted and rebuilt.

Who do you give more time to get the job done before replacing him. A contractor that has done the work many times before and has shown his knowledge and ability, or a guy that watches This Old House every weekend, but has never been in charge of a house like this before?

I guess it comes down to how well you love your house and how long you are willing to have it be in shambles before you bring in someone who knows what they are doing to fix it right.


So you're saying you'd rehire a contractor after he did an awful job on your house and left it worse than when he started? Just because he's experienced?

[Hayvern]

So you're saying you'd rehire a contractor after he did an awful job on your house and left it worse than when he started? Just because he's experienced?

I give up. You clearly cannot understand the concept. That is so far from what I said it is ridiculous to respond.

[CapitalT]

I agree with the previous posters that stated 3 wins should be enough to keep his job. The obvious math is 3 > 2 . Of course, I think he'll keep his job regardless.

However, if it were my decision I would definitely fire him if can't even get 2 wins. He should be held accountable, at least to the standard of Herm Edwards! With the notable exception of Tony Gonzalez, I think he has more talent than last year.

More than any other major sport, in Football, coaching maters.

[Sn@keIze]

I agree with the previous posters that stated 3 wins should be enough to keep his job. The obvious math is 3 > 2 . Of course, I think he'll keep his job regardless.

However, if it were my decision I would definitely fire him if can't even get 2 wins. He should be held accountable, at least to the standard of Herm Edwards! With the notable exception of Tony Gonzalez, I think he has more talent than last year.

More than any other major sport, in Football, coaching maters.Absooulutaly!

As texas pointed out earlier....Haley said "22 guys off the street could win two games."

Right now, that seems like 2 wins would be awesome.

Haley acted like its childs play.

Granted the schedule. But we found a way to lose to the Faids. And i emphasize found. We outgained them in every aspect.

[texaschief]

Now... really, would a move like that surprise you with some of the other off season moves made so far since Carl and Herm left town?

Suppose Pioli says "Well, we are rebuilding, and another bad one was expected, but this year you've got to get some wins or you're gone".

All I'm saying is it would not surprise me at all to see us retain Haley for one more year, even after 0-16, to see if his second season could improve us.

But at that point, if we were 0-16 in 2009, and start 0-6 or so in 2010, he may wind up getting the axe during the season.

Who knows?

NOBODY.... repeat.... NOBODY gets a free pass after an 0-16 season. Period. There is ZERO excuse for not being able to win one game. You can blame whatever/whoever/however you want, but ANY coach worth his salt should be able to coach well enough in the NFL to win one game. If you can't, GTFO!!!

How pathetic is it that we bring in our "franchise QB" while Denver trades theirs away and we're sitting at 0-4 while they're 4-0 with four first round picks waiting for them over the next two years?! The Broncos are going to be REALLY good for a while because of that trade.

Maybe we can trade the indecisive Cassel to Denver for one of those first rounders. The more I look at our situation, the more depressed I get.

[chief31]

NOBODY.... repeat.... NOBODY gets a free pass after an 0-16 season. Period. There is ZERO excuse for not being able to win one game. You can blame whatever/whoever/however you want, but ANY coach worth his salt should be able to coach well enough in the NFL to win one game. If you can't, GTFO!!!

How pathetic is it that we bring in our "franchise QB" while Denver trades theirs away and we're sitting at 0-4 while they're 4-0 with four first round picks waiting for them over the next two years?! The Broncos are going to be REALLY good for a while because of that trade.

Maybe we can trade the indecisive Cassel to Denver for one of those first rounders. The more I look at our situation, the more depressed I get.

Cowher is my guy. And if he came here and coached us to 0-16, I would expect him to be gone.

Myself, I am critical of Haley for three primary reasons.

1.) When you feel free to fire players for a couple of failures during the preseason, then you damn well better be ready to get fired if you fail over a 16 game schedule.

2.) When you insult your entire team with "22 guys off the street", then you damn well better prove it.

3.) I don't trust his ability to even coach an offense properly. And his staff's ability to coach a defense. The Cardinals were poor on defense, and the worst in the league at running the ball. The last team I want to be emulating is The Lions, and then The Arizona Cardinals.

I am willing to give him a chance to "prove it". But winning fewer than two games is a direct failure.

So he better find a way to get those two.

Pioli sits a little bit better with me. He does allow Haley's "hard-nosed" style. But I think I would tolerate it myself, to some extent.

I haven't liked many of the front office decisions since he arrived. Hiring Haley; reaching with prime draft position; the Cassel trade; the Cassel contract and a few other moves, that probably fall more on the HC.

But I do not view Pioli as the "mastermind" behind New England's dominance over the past several seasons.

I think that Bellichick is that "mastermind".

But, regardless of my doubts, I still hope and pray that they can show something that I am not expecting.

Success.

[Sn@keIze]

NOBODY.... repeat.... NOBODY gets a free pass after an 0-16 season. Period. There is ZERO excuse for not being able to win one game. You can blame whatever/whoever/however you want, but ANY coach worth his salt should be able to coach well enough in the NFL to win one game. If you can't, GTFO!!!

How pathetic is it that we bring in our "franchise QB" while Denver trades theirs away and we're sitting at 0-4 while they're 4-0 with four first round picks waiting for them over the next two years?! The Broncos are going to be REALLY good for a while because of that trade.

Maybe we can trade the indecisive Cassel to Denver for one of those first rounders. The more I look at our situation, the more depressed I get.
I am no where near ready to throw Cassell under the Bus.

I tivoed the game and watched it again (and am yet going to watch it again) and Lets be honest. I try to imagine myself Peyton Manning or Rothelsgurger with the same cast....And I come to the same result that Cassell is having.

They would have the same amount of success or near!

If anyone disagrees that Brees or Manning could do noticeably more with this O-line and team than please, share your thoughts!.

Look at what Cassell did last year with the cast.

But not to get of thread track. We have a weak 2nd half of the year schedule. So i am going to give Haley the benefit of the doubt and say he can beat the weaker teams.

[chief31]

I am no where near ready to throw Cassell under the Bus.

I tivoed the game and watched it again (and am yet going to watch it again) and Lets be honest. I try to imagine myself Peyton Manning or Rothelsgurger with the same cast....And I come to the same result that Cassell is having.

They would have the same amount of success or near!

If anyone disagrees that Brees or Manning could do noticeably more with this O-line and team than please, share your thoughts!.

Look at what Cassell did last year with the cast.

But not to get of thread track. We have a weak 2nd half of the year schedule. So i am going to give Haley the benefit of the doubt and say he can beat the weaker teams.

Those QBs would be interesting to watch on this offense.

Of the three mentioned, I believe that Manning would be the one to win some games. And the other two might do a bit better too. But those are some very special players.

And I too reserve judgement until the end of the season. But I will critique what I see each week, until then.

[texaschief]

I am no where near ready to throw Cassell under the Bus.

I tivoed the game and watched it again (and am yet going to watch it again) and Lets be honest. I try to imagine myself Peyton Manning or Rothelsgurger with the same cast....And I come to the same result that Cassell is having.

They would have the same amount of success or near!

If anyone disagrees that Brees or Manning could do noticeably more with this O-line and team than please, share your thoughts!.

Look at what Cassell did last year with the cast.

But not to get of thread track. We have a weak 2nd half of the year schedule. So i am going to give Haley the benefit of the doubt and say he can beat the weaker teams.

Go take a look at what that NE offensive line did BEFORE Cassel, during Cassel, and now, after Cassel. While he was their QB, he made that O-line look horrible. Now, suddenly, their a good O-line again with only one different player... their RG. he just holds the ball WAY too long.