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View Full Version : A couple things I don't like about our Chiefs,,,



Bike
10-12-2009, 01:21 AM
1. Scott Pioli:
A: Hiring Todd Haley
B: Drafting 2 DTs with 1st 2 picks when our OL so desperately needed attention.
C: Trading Tony

2. Todd Haley:
A: Firing Chan Gailey
B: Hiring Clancey Pendergast
C: Benching good players (Bowe, DJ) while keeping unproductive players (Jackson, LJ) in starting positions
D: 0-9 since preseason coupled with an arrogant attitude that has lost the respect of most of the players on this team.

And don't tell me we need more time. Denver was so bad last year that - well - we beat them. Yet they bring in a new coaching staff and a sh!tload of new players and they are, ah, 5-0.

I say later Todd. Give this team to Chan to finish off the year. Whats the worse that can happen? We lose another game?

Hayvern
10-12-2009, 02:57 AM
I am not sure if you all have noticed, but at game time Haley has shown a little more composure during the game. I am not sure what he is doing in practice.

I do agree that his attitude about the players on this team sucks, but then again, the players do need to do what they are told, so I am split there.

At any event, the biggest problem we are dealing with by far is the fact that we had a crappy offensive line a year ago, and we have a crappy Offensive line now.

I can't wait to see Waters does after this season, bet me if he doesn't retire!

Chiefster
10-12-2009, 03:20 AM
1. Scott Pioli:
A: Hiring Todd Haley
B: Drafting 2 DTs with 1st 2 picks when our OL so desperately needed attention.
C: Trading Tony

2. Todd Haley:
A: Firing Chan Gailey
B: Hiring Clancey Pendergast
C: Benching good players (Bowe, DJ) while keeping unproductive players (Jackson, LJ) in starting positions
D: 0-9 since preseason coupled with an arrogant attitude that has lost the respect of most of the players on this team.

And don't tell me we need more time. Denver was so bad last year that - well - we beat them. Yet they bring in a new coaching staff and a sh!tload of new players and they are, ah, 5-0.

I say later Todd. Give this team to Chan to finish off the year. Whats the worse that can happen? We lose another game?

There is something to be said for this, Miami did the same thing, and I was kinda hoping with the change at HC and GM that we would have seen at least one win at this point in the season.

doobs_05
10-12-2009, 03:29 AM
Just make haley a OC and lets bring in a REAL coach

texaschief
10-12-2009, 03:39 AM
Has anyone seen or heard Haley take any "responsibility" or "accountability" for ANYTHING on this team? All I've read or seen from him is blaming the players.

Maybe it's just me, but maybe changing the entire offense, language, etc the week before the season started might have been a little much for the youngest team in the league to expect them to perform at a consistent level.

If the guy would just be a little patient with his players while they learned an entirely new scheme and be accountable for his actions of putting this burden on this young team, I'd feel a little better about his potential as a coach. But the fact that he did this to these players and expects them to perform like they should automatically know his system like the back of their hand, is really irritating and concerning to me.

The Chiefs offense was equally horrible for the first 5 weeks last season, but ended up being at the very least, average by the end of the season. They implemented an entirely new offense over their bye week. It took a little while for the offense to click, but you didn't see this constant beratement from the coaching staff in order for the team to perform at a decent level.

For Albert, Waters, Niswanger, Bowe, Bradley, and Cox, this is their 3rd, maybe even 4th different offense in the last year. (I say 4th because the offense they implemented with Cassel during OTAs and training camp was probably different than the spread they used with Thigpen last year and probably different than offense they used with Croyle. So, Croyle offense '08, Thigpen offense '08, Cassel offense '09 and now Haley's offense of now would be 4 different schemes in the past year.) Anyway, that's half of the starting offense having to go through that kind of transition and is being DEMANDED to perform at a level that just isn't possible. Then, factor in the fact that Cassel is in his first year as THE GUY, the right side of the line is in shambles, there's a new TE each week and no clear cut WR rotation and you see why this offense SHOULDN'T be performing as Haley expects them to.

Bike
10-12-2009, 09:47 AM
To rebuild anything you have to start with a solid foundation. It seems the dozers and cement trucks must be on strike. It all starts with the coaching staff getting the heavy equipment on-site. (stupid analogy I know).
But just the same, the players we have here are not buying into Haleys coaching philosophy. And to completely ignore our OL problems in the draft (Colin Brown?) was disasterous.

pbatrucker
10-12-2009, 09:50 AM
Has anyone seen or heard Haley take any "responsibility" or "accountability" for ANYTHING on this team? All I've read or seen from him is blaming the players.

Maybe it's just me, but maybe changing the entire offense, language, etc the week before the season started might have been a little much for the youngest team in the league to expect them to perform at a consistent level.

If the guy would just be a little patient with his players while they learned an entirely new scheme and be accountable for his actions of putting this burden on this young team, I'd feel a little better about his potential as a coach. But the fact that he did this to these players and expects them to perform like they should automatically know his system like the back of their hand, is really irritating and concerning to me.

The Chiefs offense was equally horrible for the first 5 weeks last season, but ended up being at the very least, average by the end of the season. They implemented an entirely new offense over their bye week. It took a little while for the offense to click, but you didn't see this constant beratement from the coaching staff in order for the team to perform at a decent level.

For Albert, Waters, Niswanger, Bowe, Bradley, and Cox, this is their 3rd, maybe even 4th different offense in the last year. (I say 4th because the offense they implemented with Cassel during OTAs and training camp was probably different than the spread they used with Thigpen last year and probably different than offense they used with Croyle. So, Croyle offense '08, Thigpen offense '08, Cassel offense '09 and now Haley's offense of now would be 4 different schemes in the past year.) Anyway, that's half of the starting offense having to go through that kind of transition and is being DEMANDED to perform at a level that just isn't possible. Then, factor in the fact that Cassel is in his first year as THE GUY, the right side of the line is in shambles, there's a new TE each week and no clear cut WR rotation and you see why this offense SHOULDN'T be performing as Haley expects them to.
Are you a Chiefs fan because the cowgirl fans didn't want to hear your BS anymore?

nigeriannightmare
10-12-2009, 10:32 AM
Are you a Chiefs fan because the cowgirl fans didn't want to hear your BS anymore?


This calling out of someone's beliefs is pathetic. Calling a spade spade is okay, and we are not a good football team we have lost 28 out of 30 games anyone calling them a fan after this stretch is a fan no mater what. this is as bad as it gets folks.

I know everyone is about happy feelings and postive notes but 28 out of 30 losses there isn't much positive spin on that. Deal with the fact that we aren 't good, and deal with the ctitiscism that ensues.

drstandley31
10-12-2009, 10:37 AM
I say just let Haley coach, and get a good OC in here. Nothing wrong with a ballbuster coach. These guys, the few that are still here from the Herm era, were weak and had no work ethic. Bowe is a primary example. And Waters, he's still slacking. Supposed to be the most experienced guy out there, and I don't think he gave a 60% effort. I just don't think Haley is a very good play caller. Kept working the edges where we were getting nothing. Loves the draw, which got nothing. Doesn't seem to be able to find the soft spots. How many screens or play action plays did you see? Not many. Those are designed to keep a defense in check and slow down the pass rush. Make them pay for the blitz. That's the mental side of the OC, and he can't seem to do that.

Bike
10-12-2009, 10:44 AM
I say just let Haley coach, and get a good OC in here. Nothing wrong with a ballbuster coach. These guys, the few that are still here from the Herm era, were weak and had no work ethic. Bowe is a primary example. And Waters, he's still slacking. Supposed to be the most experienced guy out there, and I don't think he gave a 60% effort. I just don't think Haley is a very good play caller. Kept working the edges where we were getting nothing. Loves the draw, which got nothing. Doesn't seem to be able to find the soft spots. How many screens or play action plays did you see? Not many. Those are designed to keep a defense in check and slow down the pass rush. Make them pay for the blitz. That's the mental side of the OC, and he can't seem to do that.
A good HC will put his personnel in the best positions to allow his team to win. As a first year HC, firing his OC (a damn good one imo) was a detriment to this team...

chief31
10-12-2009, 10:58 AM
I say just let Haley coach, and get a good OC in here. Nothing wrong with a ballbuster coach.

These guys, the few that are still here from the Herm era, were weak and had no work ethic. Bowe is a primary example. And Waters, he's still slacking. Supposed to be the most experienced guy out there, and I don't think he gave a 60% effort.

I just don't think Haley is a very good play caller. Kept working the edges where we were getting nothing. Loves the draw, which got nothing.

Doesn't seem to be able to find the soft spots. How many screens or play action plays did you see? Not many. Those are designed to keep a defense in check and slow down the pass rush.

Make them pay for the blitz. That's the mental side of the OC, and he can't seem to do that.

Well, Haley's ability as a play-caller is the reason he was hired here. (Arizona OC for last season.) If he isn't good at that, then we are in big trouble, I think.

And I just completely disagree that the players were the problem with this team last season.

The offense was leagues better when it got out from under Herm's control. But the defense never got that chance, so they continued to do what Herm assigned them to do.

We had alot of young talent that was misused, and made to look bad by being put in the situation of trying to put Herm's square peg system into a round slot.

Not that we were THE MOST talented team in the league. But Herm was the problem here. If you want to run a totally generic 4-3 defense, then you damn well better not let Jared Allen leave! Even then, it's still a bad idea to refuse to blitz, even run blitz.

matthewschiefs
10-12-2009, 01:01 PM
To be honest all this arrogant talk drives me nuts. The SAME freaking media that is calling him this are the same that last year would say the herm edwards just needed time. What happend after games last year and the season before. Herm edwards would sit there put all the blame for the loss on the players and refuse to take any. Haley has flat out said that he has not done a great job. And hes the arrogant one? Yes he is tough and he belives his way will work thats the attitude that a head coach has to have IMO.
As far as your Denver point FACT is that denver is not nearly as young as this team. And point blank they have more talent then the chiefs right now. YOU CANT JUDGE A COACH IN GM AFTER 5 regular season games. You just cant do it. they both deserve this year to be given a break. Next year yes there should be MAJOR improvement. But IMO you have to give them time.

Bike
10-12-2009, 01:15 PM
To be honest all this arrogant talk drives me nuts. The SAME freaking media that is calling him this are the same that last year would say the herm edwards just needed time. What happend after games last year and the season before. Herm edwards would sit there put all the blame for the loss on the players and refuse to take any. Haley has flat out said that he has not done a great job. And hes the arrogant one? Yes he is tough and he belives his way will work thats the attitude that a head coach has to have IMO.
As far as your Denver point FACT is that denver is not nearly as young as this team. And point blank they have more talent then the chiefs right now. YOU CANT JUDGE A COACH IN GM AFTER 5 regular season games. You just cant do it. they both deserve this year to be given a break. Next year yes there should be MAJOR improvement. But IMO you have to give them time.
Why not? Denver is just as young as this team. I have eyes. I have ears. I can see the direction Denver is heading after overhauling their team. And I can see the direction we are heading after overhauling our team. It doesn't take a genius to see the difference...

Chieffaninfl
10-12-2009, 04:43 PM
Denver has better player, and a better nucleus than us right now. That sucks, but its true. If you think Pioli, and Haley are gonna sit around and continue to let that happen you are mistaken. Give them time to get the players they need to run the system they want to run.

Bike
10-12-2009, 05:11 PM
I think its a flip of a coin. Waste three years as we did with Herm and hope things turn around, or be proactive and make changes if what we are doing aint working. I played the waiting game with Herm - so I'm kinda gunshy about doing it again with Haley. He needs to at least give us a hint of what is to come. A win after 4 losses in preseason and 5 straight losses in the regular season might be in order. Hell, go for the 2-point conversion for the win and show some confidence in your team.

matthewschiefs
10-12-2009, 07:03 PM
A good HC will put his personnel in the best positions to allow his team to win. As a first year HC, firing his OC (a damn good one imo) was a detriment to this team...

He may have been a good OC but if he does not fit what you want then hes not right for you. Now I would agree he could have picked a better time to do it but i dont think the move itself was a detriment.

Bike
10-12-2009, 07:56 PM
He may have been a good OC but if he does not fit what you want then hes not right for you. Now I would agree he could have picked a better time to do it but i dont think the move itself was a detriment.
Ok but with no replacement? Huge mistake imo...

honda522
10-12-2009, 08:49 PM
I think Todd could be a good coach, he has to stop this BS of benching good players for punishment. That only punishes the whole team and the fans.

josh1971
10-12-2009, 08:55 PM
I gotta agree with honda here- and further, he needs to stop trying to do everything with the offense. He has a whole team to run- he should learn now to trust others, and get an offensive coordinator and QB coach that can contribute.

That will allow Haley to concentrate on much more. And maybe we'll get some decent play calling.

McLovin
10-13-2009, 12:22 AM
Has anyone seen or heard Haley take any "responsibility" or "accountability" for ANYTHING on this team? All I've read or seen from him is blaming the players.

Maybe it's just me, but maybe changing the entire offense, language, etc the week before the season started might have been a little much for the youngest team in the league to expect them to perform at a consistent level.

If the guy would just be a little patient with his players while they learned an entirely new scheme and be accountable for his actions of putting this burden on this young team, I'd feel a little better about his potential as a coach. But the fact that he did this to these players and expects them to perform like they should automatically know his system like the back of their hand, is really irritating and concerning to me.

The Chiefs offense was equally horrible for the first 5 weeks last season, but ended up being at the very least, average by the end of the season. They implemented an entirely new offense over their bye week. It took a little while for the offense to click, but you didn't see this constant beratement from the coaching staff in order for the team to perform at a decent level.

For Albert, Waters, Niswanger, Bowe, Bradley, and Cox, this is their 3rd, maybe even 4th different offense in the last year. (I say 4th because the offense they implemented with Cassel during OTAs and training camp was probably different than the spread they used with Thigpen last year and probably different than offense they used with Croyle. So, Croyle offense '08, Thigpen offense '08, Cassel offense '09 and now Haley's offense of now would be 4 different schemes in the past year.) Anyway, that's half of the starting offense having to go through that kind of transition and is being DEMANDED to perform at a level that just isn't possible. Then, factor in the fact that Cassel is in his first year as THE GUY, the right side of the line is in shambles, there's a new TE each week and no clear cut WR rotation and you see why this offense SHOULDN'T be performing as Haley expects them to.
This feels so dirty, but here goes. I agree with you.













Im going to take a shower.

Canada
10-13-2009, 01:01 AM
Why not? Denver is just as young as this team. I have eyes. I have ears. I can see the direction Denver is heading after overhauling their team. And I can see the direction we are heading after overhauling our team. It doesn't take a genius to see the difference...

I think Den is a fluke 5-0. Sure they beat the cowgirls, they got a bullsh!t call in the NE game to win, beat CIN on a miracle and beat Cle and someone else sh!t. At least we recognize the problems and are gonna do something about it. I will be that we will be much better off long term than Den.

texaschief
10-13-2009, 02:01 AM
I think Den is a fluke 5-0. Sure they beat the cowgirls, they got a bullsh!t call in the NE game to win, beat CIN on a miracle and beat Cle and someone else sh!t. At least we recognize the problems and are gonna do something about it. I will be that we will be much better off long term than Den.

I think we're in a MUCH deeper hole than Denver for the long term. Don't forget they have 4 first round picks coming to that team over the next 2 years and just about as much money left to spend as we do.

texaschief
10-13-2009, 02:05 AM
Are you a Chiefs fan because the cowgirl fans didn't want to hear your BS anymore?

BS? Really? If it's "BS," feel free to set me straight if you think you can put more than one sentence together. Because, I gotta tell ya, your one-liners are lacking substance.

But to answer your question... no.

pbatrucker
10-13-2009, 02:27 AM
BS? Really? If it's "BS," feel free to set me straight if you think you can put more than one sentence together. Because, I gotta tell ya, your one-liners are lacking substance.

But to answer your question... no.

For one Haley takes responsibility for his and the coaches mistakes, has many times in press meetings. You're intitled to an opinion but does every word have to be to bad mouth the entire organization.