2009 draft picks dropping

[texaschief]

Colin Brown-IR
Jake O'Connell- Probably waived if the Chiefs sign Michael Mathews
Jarvis Williams on the practice squad

Now, the Chiefs waive Quinten Lawrence

Add that to TJ and Magee suckin it up and Washington contributing very little and this is quickly becoming a draft reminiscent of the Vermeil era.

Poor drafts from 2000 to 2005 is what destroyed this team and here we are again. Getting NOTHING from our top picks and releasing our later round draft picks half way thru the season.

:lamende:

[kilobytes]

Pretty much exactly what i think. Herm at least could draft well.

[Bike]

And here I thought Pioli was a master drafter...
Cassel/Vrabel/Succop encouraging though.
Jackson has been a major disappointment...

[texaschief]

Pretty much exactly what i think. Herm at least could draft well.

If nothin else, his first 3 rounds at least contributed.

[yashi]

The 09 draft has looked pretty bad so far, though I'll wait until next season to judge Jackson and Magee since they're defensive linemen. Funny the mocks I made pre-draft for us included players who are now playing really well for other teams. Maybe Pioli should hire me? :)

[PawnshopMarimba]

And here I thought Pioli was a master drafter...
Cassel/Vrabel/Succop encouraging though.
Jackson has been a major disappointment...


Sheesh. We were having the same conversation just a few months ago about Glenn Dorsey. Then some people said, "Hey wait! He's only a rookie! This position takes time to learn!"

Dorsey has indeed put together a better year thus far, and he still probably has a few years to go on the learning curve.

Give it some time.

[pbatrucker]

Lawrence and Lawrence were bad picks. Didn.t understand them or Washington or Brown.

[texaschief]

Lawrence and Lawrence were bad picks. Didn.t understand them or Washington or Brown.

Tyson was probably the biggest reach of the decade.
Magee was a horrible pick with Dorsey already on the team.
Why Washington?
I take it back... Jackson wasn't the biggest reach... that belongs to Colin Brown.
Lawrence disappointed me. I thought that was Pioli's one GOOD pick.
I didn't understand the RB pick.
Pioli lucked out with Succop. As good as he is, he should've been the first kicker off the board.

[pbatrucker]

The players selected weren't even on my list. That being said I'm right back checking out the posibilities.

[KottkeKU]

I thought it was a pretty average draft, considering we did get Cassel and Vrabel (both whom hace played outstanding thus far i think...), and its WAY too early to judge T.Jackson, he is going to be a really good player a few years down the road thats why they reached on him....he is not going to be an impact type player, but in due time he will be a big part of what the Chiefs D is about...

i have to say though, i didnt like the Magee pick, considering we already had Dorsey, but it has made Dorsey a better player.... and the rest of Piolis picks were terrible save for Succop who has been a great player for us... i think anyone could have made a better draft...

[pbatrucker]

I wish they would sit Jackson and give Gilberry a shot. He seems to be productive when he's in the game.

[Chiefman]

I always thought rookies were brought in for their potential. If they have no potential and they can not make the transition from College to the NFL; they go. I will trust that Pioli and Haley know what they are doing. They are playing for the future and not necessarily here and now. A few wins would be nice though.

[texaschief]

I always thought rookies were brought in for their potential. If they have no potential and they can not make the transition from College to the NFL; they go. I will trust that Pioli and Haley know what they are doing. They are playing for the future and not necessarily here and now. A few wins would be nice though.

Wouldn't it be prudent to protect your "future?" Just askin. Cuz they DID spend $60 million on a QB and decided not to protect their investment.

[captainamerica]

One thing that can be said in defense of Pioli is that it was agreed upon by most fans and experts that 2009 was one of the weakest draft classes in some time. That being said I still think we could've done a better job. Hopefully next year we have more success.

[texaschief]

One thing that can be said in defense of Pioli is that it was agreed upon by most fans and experts that 2009 was one of the weakest draft classes in some time. That being said I still think we could've done a better job. Hopefully next year we have more success.

That maybe so... but I GUARANTEE you that this past draft was at least 3 players deep. There's ZERO excuse for reaching for Jackson at #3.

[KottkeKU]

Would you guys LAY OFF Tyson Jackson!?!?!

Everyone said the same thing for Dorsey last season, it takes a while for d lineman to understand the NFL...it is probably the hardest pos. to play in this league, and certainly the hardest to transition from college...

And EVERYONE on this team blows right now, so lay off Jackson, he is only a freaking rookie...

I just cant see how people can be so hard on Jackson..like he is supposed to single handedly fix our defense...

the problem with the defense is our secondary and the players' understadning of the scheme....we have scrubs pretty much at every pos. back there save for Flowers and Flowers has been playing hurt all season...and we still need a leader (MLB), a legit pair of safeties which we havent had in some time (mcGraw and Brown are laughable as starting safeties..), and some more exp along the d line to be effective at what we want to do... think Jackson is the magic potion for ALL that??? In his first year in the NFL??? Not me...

[Bike]

Would you guys LAY OFF Tyson Jackson!?!?!

Everyone said the same thing for Dorsey last season, it takes a while for d lineman to understand the NFL...it is probably the hardest pos. to play in this league, and certainly the hardest to transition from college...

And EVERYONE on this team blows right now, so lay off Jackson, he is only a freaking rookie...

I just cant see how people can be so hard on Jackson..like he is supposed to single handedly fix our defense...

the problem with the defense is our secondary and the players' understadning of the scheme....we have scrubs pretty much at every pos. back there save for Flowers and Flowers has been playing hurt all season...and we still need a leader (MLB), a legit pair of safeties which we havent had in some time (mcGraw and Brown are laughable as starting safeties..), and some more exp along the d line to be effective at what we want to do... think Jackson is the magic potion for ALL that??? In his first year in the NFL??? Not me...
I think TJ will be a good player for us. But not so sure about drafting him at #3. A pick that high really needs to be producing more than a couple of tackles...
And btw, unless we are going back to the 4-3, we won't be drafting a MLB. I think Vrabel is a good leader for this defense. I hope he's got a couple more years left in him...

[kilobytes]

The thing with Jackson is is that they said he would make an immediate impact. Same with Dorsey. Lies...
Jackson is having a much worse start than Dorsey did a year ago. Dorsey is starting to come through though. Only time will tell.

[Coach]

The thing with Jackson is is that they said he would make an immediate impact. Same with Dorsey. Lies...
Jackson is having a much worse start than Dorsey did a year ago. Dorsey is starting to come through though. Only time will tell.

Not sure I agree with this statement.

Anyhow, the Chiefs should not have ignored the offensive line in the off-season. They know that now. I would fully expect that to be agenda item #1 in February.

Next year is going to be the busiest off-season ever IMO. Most likely it will be an uncapped year. That will likely mean that those under-performing players with big contracts will be getting cut because there will not be salary cap implications.

[josh1971]

I can think of one under-performing player with a big contract who may be getting cut...

very soon :D

[Coach]

I can think of one under-performing player with a big contract who may be getting cut...

very soon :D

Honestly, Im shocked that we haven't already seen a press release. According to ESPN, the NFL is also looking into the LJ situation. LJ will likely be facing a league suspension because of his deflamatory comments towards gays.

It may be that the Chiefs are waiting on league action against LJ before releasing him. That may allow the Chiefs to recover some money from LJ's contract through arbitration.

[TheLateGreat#58Fan]

At this point in his career Richard Seymour has 10 tack. 0 sacks 0 passes def.
Tyson Jackson has 5 tack. 0 sacks and 1 pass def.

Only saying this to re-point out that give the man sometime before we call him a bust.
I'm not saying he is going to be Richard Seymour, it would be incredible if he was even close


P.S. Darius Heyward-Bey biggest bust/slash reach in the draft Guy has almost the same number of catches and names

[Vanilla Garilla]

Wow, i went to read this thread and cannot believe how some of you believe that Tyson Jackson is a bust already. You gotta give the kid some time, he is a rookie after all.

I really hope you guys werent expecting Jackson to step in and get massive amounts of tackles and sacks right off the get go.

[N TX Dave]

Wow, i went to read this thread and cannot believe how some of you believe that Tyson Jackson is a bust already. You gotta give the kid some time, he is a rookie after all.

I really hope you guys werent expecting Jackson to step in and get massive amounts of tackles and sacks right off the get go.

Some were, they are so used to immediate gratification that they don't understand that it may take a year or two. There are also some who think that with a new HC and GM we should be in the SB this year and because we are not they are both failures. Folks it does not happen over night I know Miami did it last year but look at them this year they only have one more win than us.

[Vanilla Garilla]

Some were, they are so used to immediate gratification that they don't understand that it may take a year or two. There are also some who think that with a new HC and GM we should be in the SB this year and because we are not they are both failures. Folks it does not happen over night I know Miami did it last year but look at them this year they only have one more win than us.

Well said Dave. However, I honestly believe the Dolphins have a much better team than ours this year (yeah that hurts and sucks @ss to say!)

[texaschief]

Some were, they are so used to immediate gratification that they don't understand that it may take a year or two. There are also some who think that with a new HC and GM we should be in the SB this year and because we are not they are both failures. Folks it does not happen over night I know Miami did it last year but look at them this year they only have one more win than us.

I for one don't think TJ is a bust yet. I think he was an AWFUL pick at #3 for a team that needed impact players from the 09 draft. I also realize making the SB takes more than a year with a new regime; however is it really too much to ask for the guys who are throwing away players left and right to, at the VERY LEAST replace those players with comparable talent or realize not protecting a $60 million investment is probably a poor decision?

Would you purchase a $60 million home without purchasing insurance along with it... ESPECIALLY if you have the extra money just sitting there not being utilized (as the Chiefs do)?

Is it REALLY too much to ask for impact from a rookie for a team in DESPERATE need of one? There are rookies all over this league making impacts on their teams. These men are being paid LARGE sums of money to make player evaluations and acquisitions. A LOT of people weren't sure Dorsey could make the transition to 3-4 DE, but these guys SHOULD have been able to make the correct decision and not wasted 2 of their first three picks on non-impact DEs like TJ and Magee. Again, I don't think Jackson is going to be an awful player. I think he was an awful pick for the Chiefs this season.

Not only did they fail at evaluating the DE position, but they also failed at evaluating the O-line and chose to do nothing about it until it was too late. Then, without a plan in place, they cut players without replacing them with comparable talent.

Since CP's resignation and Pioli's takeover, I've only seen a couple moves that wouldn't be considered "poor."

Trade for Cassel
Drafting Succop
Signing Mays, Belcher, O'Callaghan


EVERYTHING.... REPEAT... EVERYTHING that has been done since has been a below average move/decision. If you can tell me the positive of:

Waiting so long to sign Pioli
Waiting so long to fire Edwards
Waiting so long to sign Todd Haley
Signing Todd Haley
Hiring a DC responsible for the 28th "best" defense last season
Changing the defensive scheme to 3-4 when all the young talent in place is best suited for the 4-3
Reaching for TJ at #3
Drafting Magee in the 3rd
Drafting Brown in the 5th
Not drafting/signing more O-line help than Goff after giving Cassel $60 million
Cutting Bernard Pollard (leading tackler last season/currently the 3rd leading tackler (27) for Houston after just 4 games in support of an avg. rush defense) for a player 8 years older than him who hadn't played a full season in 5 seasons who's just as "bad" at tackling. Brown, in contrast has 42 tkls in 7 games.
Trading an impact player like Tank Tyler with, AGAIN no replacement.
Benching Derrick Johnson (best defensive athlete)
Firing the OC ONE WEEK BEFORE the regular season
Trading draft picks for scrub O-linemen from Miami
Constantly berating your players, humiliating them, and inturn, losing the club house
Having damn near THE MOST available cap space going into an uncapped season for a 1-6 team.


... I'd be happy to listen, cuz I just don't see it. But hey, maybe you're right. Maybe I'm just expecting too much.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's not THAT Pioli/Haley are losing... it's HOW they are losing. When most of these decisions were being made, they were questionable at the time... this isn't "Monday morning QBing." These are elementary mistakes that are being made.

[DT14PRIEST]

Waiting so long to sign Pioli
Waiting so long to fire Edwards
Waiting so long to sign Todd Haley
Signing Todd Haley
Hiring a DC responsible for the 28th "best" defense last season
Changing the defensive scheme to 3-4 when all the young talent in place is best suited for the 4-3
Reaching for TJ at #3
Drafting Magee in the 3rd
Drafting Brown in the 5th
Not drafting/signing more O-line help than Goff after giving Cassel $60 million
Cutting Bernard Pollard (leading tackler last season/currently the 3rd leading tackler (27) for Houston after just 4 games in support of an avg. rush defense) for a player 8 years older than him who hadn't played a full season in 5 seasons who's just as "bad" at tackling. Brown, in contrast has 42 tkls in 7 games.
Trading an impact player like Tank Tyler with, AGAIN no replacement.
Benching Derrick Johnson (best defensive athlete)
Firing the OC ONE WEEK BEFORE the regular season
Trading draft picks for scrub O-linemen from Miami
Constantly berating your players, humiliating them, and inturn, losing the club house
Having damn near THE MOST available cap space going into an uncapped season for a 1-6 team.



1. Hunt's problem? Is there a Rooney rule for GMs as well?
2. The Candidate wanted just so happened to get on a hot streak in the playoffs and made it to the superbowl.
3. See 2...
4. Who else would you have hired post Herm Edwards that was available after the superbowl and wanted to coach this year? Cowher and Shanahan don't count.
5. Do you promote from within/ hold Gunther/ or test the waters with someone you don't know? How many coaches were still available at that time line that were willing to come to KC for an interview?
6. 3-4 GM with 3-4 coaches coaching and drafting/evaluating talent for a 4-3 would be just as bad.
7. I wanted an O-Lineman.
8. This team has no D-Line depth. Its why our defense gets progressively worse as the game goes on (aside from our bad offense)
9. I don't remember who else was available in the 5th round but are any of them making head way in the NFL right now? Or are most of them developmental projects like the rest of the 5-7 round picks?
10. Truth
11. Don't really care about Pollard. Some people may forgive bad plays when they see a crushing blow but I don't. Whats that say about Pollard in Huston? He's just doing their what he did here; sucking it up in coverage but making the a big hit every now and again. Really its a matter of pick your poison. Good run stuffer for a bad rushing defense. We need a better secondary altogether.
12. Tank Tyler was never really impacting anything. Good job tank you caught the ball carrier running straight up the gut and padded your stats.
13. Derrick Johnson is pretty good when he wants to be but pretty invisible most of the time. Its all about the MTV cribs...
14. Bad move...probably...
15. Meh I haven't seen enough of either to form an opinion but they are better then Goff.
16. Links? Quotes? Where is everyone getting their insider information? Whitlock? (22 players) Bowe? (preseason) DJ? (DJ?) constantly? Maybe its true maybe it isn't I haven't seen nor read anything to say that this is happening so frequently.
17. I'd like to see/have seen them spend more money but would it really have done anything this season besides add a few high dollar athletes who probably don't give a damn?

[matthewschiefs]

I for one don't think TJ is a bust yet. I think he was an AWFUL pick at #3 for a team that needed impact players from the 09 draft. I also realize making the SB takes more than a year with a new regime; however is it really too much to ask for the guys who are throwing away players left and right to, at the VERY LEAST replace those players with comparable talent or realize not protecting a $60 million investment is probably a poor decision?

Would you purchase a $60 million home without purchasing insurance along with it... ESPECIALLY if you have the extra money just sitting there not being utilized (as the Chiefs do)?

Is it REALLY too much to ask for impact from a rookie for a team in DESPERATE need of one? There are rookies all over this league making impacts on their teams. These men are being paid LARGE sums of money to make player evaluations and acquisitions. A LOT of people weren't sure Dorsey could make the transition to 3-4 DE, but these guys SHOULD have been able to make the correct decision and not wasted 2 of their first three picks on non-impact DEs like TJ and Magee. Again, I don't think Jackson is going to be an awful player. I think he was an awful pick for the Chiefs this season.

Not only did they fail at evaluating the DE position, but they also failed at evaluating the O-line and chose to do nothing about it until it was too late. Then, without a plan in place, they cut players without replacing them with comparable talent.

Since CP's resignation and Pioli's takeover, I've only seen a couple moves that wouldn't be considered "poor."

Trade for Cassel
Drafting Succop
Signing Mays, Belcher, O'Callaghan
EVERYTHING.... REPEAT... EVERYTHING that has been done since has been a below average move/decision. If you can tell me the positive of:

Waiting so long to sign Pioli
Waiting so long to fire Edwards
Waiting so long to sign Todd Haley
Signing Todd Haley
Hiring a DC responsible for the 28th "best" defense last season
Changing the defensive scheme to 3-4 when all the young talent in place is best suited for the 4-3
Reaching for TJ at #3
Drafting Magee in the 3rd
Drafting Brown in the 5th
Not drafting/signing more O-line help than Goff after giving Cassel $60 million
Cutting Bernard Pollard (leading tackler last season/currently the 3rd leading tackler (27) for Houston after just 4 games in support of an avg. rush defense) for a player 8 years older than him who hadn't played a full season in 5 seasons who's just as "bad" at tackling. Brown, in contrast has 42 tkls in 7 games.
Trading an impact player like Tank Tyler with, AGAIN no replacement.
Benching Derrick Johnson (best defensive athlete)
Firing the OC ONE WEEK BEFORE the regular season
Trading draft picks for scrub O-linemen from Miami
Constantly berating your players, humiliating them, and inturn, losing the club house
Having damn near THE MOST available cap space going into an uncapped season for a 1-6 team.
... I'd be happy to listen, cuz I just don't see it. But hey, maybe you're right. Maybe I'm just expecting too much.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. It's not THAT Pioli/Haley are losing... it's HOW they are losing. When most of these decisions were being made, they were questionable at the time... this isn't "Monday morning QBing." These are elementary mistakes that are being made.

The Chiefs actualy moved pretty quick to sign hailey. They had to by NFL rule wait for the Cardinal season to end and they signed his the week after the superbowl. So they didnt wait to long. As for the signing hailey being bad wait and see if the chiefs look this bad next season i will agree but its a little early yet to say that.

[texaschief]

1. Hunt's problem? Is there a Rooney rule for GMs as well?
not sure what you're saying here.
2. The Candidate wanted just so happened to get on a hot streak in the playoffs and made it to the superbowl.
From what I remember this offseason, McDaniel was the first choice. What has Haley done that would warrant him being the FIRST choice for a "rookie" GM?What has he done THIS season that makes you believe he's capable of being a good HC? There's usually signs you can identify with "good" head coaches. Being a "disciplinarian" only works if you know how to walk that line... he doesn't know how and is on the verge of losing the locker room.
3. See 2...
4. Who else would you have hired post Herm Edwards that was available after the superbowl and wanted to coach this year? Cowher and Shanahan don't count.
If the guy I wanted didn't want to coach in 2009, I would've kept the other guy in place until my guy WAS ready. OR I would've promoted Gailey as an interim for the season, then kept him as the OC the following year. As long as Haley keeps losing the veterans on his teams and cutting talented players who he butts heads with, the Chiefs will NEVER sign free agents, keep the good players we drafted or be a good team. Period. This team was SO young when Pioli stepped in. He should've hired someone with a proven track record of getting a team headed in the right direction instead of hiring someone with ZERO experience at OC OR HC to lead the team.
5. Do you promote from within/ hold Gunther/ or test the waters with someone you don't know? How many coaches were still available at that time line that were willing to come to KC for an interview?
I would've hired someone who wasn't just fired from a Super Bowl team. They OBVIOUSLY realized what their problem was. Yes. I would've kept Gunther and would've given him the freedom he had with the defense in the 90's. Edwards wouldn't let Gunther run the defense and that was a BIG mistake.
6. 3-4 GM with 3-4 coaches coaching and drafting/evaluating talent for a 4-3 would be just as bad.
Which is yet ANOTHER failure of evaluating talent and bringing in the right people for the job. Its difficult to keep track of, but the Patriots are now running a lot of 4-3 because the personnel Pioli/Belichick drafted are best suited for that type of defense. So, Pioli IS capable of drafting 4-3 players... either that or he's failing at drafting 3-4 players... one or the other.
7. I wanted an O-Lineman.
8. This team has no D-Line depth. Its why our defense gets progressively worse as the game goes on (aside from our bad offense)
We would have D-line depth if we weren't making whole sale changes and cutting/trading every player in sight. This D-line had plenty of depth to run a 4-3 and even plenty of depth to run the 3-4. The defense looked A LOT better the first couple weeks than it does right now... that's pathetic.
9. I don't remember who else was available in the 5th round but are any of them making head way in the NFL right now? Or are most of them developmental projects like the rest of the 5-7 round picks?
Not the point. I'm not going to say, "he should've drafted this guy or that" because that's not fair. But when Colin Brown was taken, EVERYONE thought it was a bad idea because the guy could've been had as a FA AFTER the draft. There were still plenty of recognizable names on the board at that point and it probably would've been prudent to take one of them.
S/LB-Nic Harris OU (Buffalo)
WR-Johnny Knox AC (Chicago)
CB- Victor (Macho) Harris VT (Eagles)
OG-Duke Robinson OU (Carolina)
QB-Nate Davis Ball St. (SF)
Those are a few of the players selected AFTER Brown in the 5th that I can remember being upset we passed on. I haven't gone through the list, but I'm sure there are more 5th rounders still on their respective teams than are not.
10. Truth
11. Don't really care about Pollard. Some people may forgive bad plays when they see a crushing blow but I don't. Whats that say about Pollard in Huston? He's just doing their what he did here; sucking it up in coverage but making the a big hit every now and again. Really its a matter of pick your poison. Good run stuffer for a bad rushing defense. We need a better secondary altogether.
So, in your mind, Mike Brown is playing better at 31 than Pollard is at 24? I don't buy it.
12. Tank Tyler was never really impacting anything. Good job tank you caught the ball carrier running straight up the gut and padded your stats.
Weren't you the one bringing up D-line depth a few moments ago? In a 3-4, the nose tackle holds his position and tackles the ball carrier when he gets close... so yeah... good job Tank.... and Dorsey... Anyone seen Jackson or Magee around?
13. Derrick Johnson is pretty good when he wants to be but pretty invisible most of the time. Its all about the MTV cribs...
If you say so...
14. Bad move...probably...
15. Meh I haven't seen enough of either to form an opinion but they are better then Goff.
Then why is Goff still playing? Is it all about the MTV Cribs for them as well?
16. Links? Quotes? Where is everyone getting their insider information? Whitlock? (22 players) Bowe? (preseason) DJ? (DJ?) constantly? Maybe its true maybe it isn't I haven't seen nor read anything to say that this is happening so frequently.
Do you actually WATCH the games? It doesn't take "insider" knowledge to see this.
17. I'd like to see/have seen them spend more money but would it really have done anything this season besides add a few high dollar athletes who probably don't give a damn?
Yes... it would've protected our $60 million investment. At this point, that's all I really care about. Keeping Cassel healthy through this season should be and should've been priority #1. The OL is so bad right now, they should just put one of the backups in for the rest of the season so we don't lose Cassel for next season.


As far as Haley is concerned, the fundamental and elementary mistakes this guy is making week in and week out since he got this job has him on equal footing or even, at this point, below Herm Edwards as a Head Football Coach. I hope to God this guy was a one year bridge.

[DT14PRIEST]

As far as Haley is concerned...

1. Hunt hires the GM so wouldn't that be a mark on his resume then the current FO?

2. From what I remember Denver was out of the Playoffs and fired Shanahan on the 30th of December and hired McDaniels on the 11th of January.

Pioli was hired on the 13th of January.

I didn't say 1st candidate in my post anyways. I said the Candidate they wanted (which could mean 2nd choice/ 3rd choice whatever choice no one knows at this point)

4. No one with a proven track record wanted to coach this year and no one wanted Herm in the HC position anymore anyways after CP resigned.

The only 'semi' talented player that's been cut from this team is Pollard and even that is debatable. We have no idea whats happening internally with the Chiefs so anything debating otherwise is frivolous speculation.

5. That's all well and good but who would you hire? What qualified candidate was out at the that time that we missed out on? The coaching pool was just as shallow as the FA pool this year and the Chiefs got into it late because they hired their HC so late in the process.

And wasn't Gunther's second chance at the DC under Vermiel just as awful as his third under Herm when he was given the FAs he wanted and ran the defense how he wanted as well? He still didn't do anything with it. And now in Detroit his defense lost to the Rams. Not exactly glowing credentials.

6. Its in Vogue its what he built the Pats before they switched over. So he can do both but he's done one better for longer.

9. Brown is still on the team (IR but on the team). It doesn't really matter in my mind who the team drafts post rounds 1-4. Everything after 4 is a crap shoot.

11. They play equivalent ball. Pollard and Brown are on pace to set the same amount of tackles (they're both averaging ~6 tackles a game) the edge goes to Brown who also has a sack.

12. Yea he was decent depth that I agree with but the argument was that he was impact and he wasn't impact. Where was the impact? The defense played the same with or without him in the line up. So where's the loss?

Do 3-4 lineman really make eye popping stats? I don't know what you're looking for in Jackson he's doing basically what he was drafted for. If you're looking for sacks then I suggest you watch replays of the game and tell me exactly how many times he's in when the down is an obvious passing down.

13. I remember someone telling me DJ was a beast (it wasn't you I don't think) or that he was dominant or some form or another but all we've seen from DJ since he's been drafted is an average LB not living up to his potential. Best defensive player? Possibly when he decides to play up to his potential then I'll believe it. If he was so great why hasn't he made pro bowl at least once yet?

I even called for him to have a break out year.

15. I don't know why they aren't playing. You can ask 9 out of 10 other people and they'll probably say the same thing. Any guess is as good as mine as to why they aren't playing.

I don't know why you're so miffed about the MTV cribs thing. Didn't mean to burst you're DJ bubble but its painfully obvious.

16. I do. and I've seen Haley yell at Brodie for being a dumbass, Cassel once or twice for miscommunication and the whole Brian Waters thing...Thats about it. You've insinuated that he's just a constant debbie downer on his players. Always putting them down and never saying anything positive about them and in turn losing the club house? When? Where? How many different players have you heard this from? Why did they give Haley a Gatorade shower at the WA game? Is that type of celebration really indicative to a team that hates its HC?

17. Hey look we agree. I wanted more O-Lineman as well. I wanted at least 3 new decent ones possibly 4 but not everything goes according to plan.

[texaschief]

1. Hunt hires the GM so wouldn't that be a mark on his resume then the current FO?

Yes... but Hunt IS part of the front office... it ALL starts and ends with him.

2. From what I remember Denver was out of the Playoffs and fired Shanahan on the 30th of December and hired McDaniels on the 11th of January.

Pioli was hired on the 13th of January.

I didn't say 1st candidate in my post anyways. I said the Candidate they wanted (which could mean 2nd choice/ 3rd choice whatever choice no one knows at this point)

4. No one with a proven track record wanted to coach this year and no one wanted Herm in the HC position anymore anyways after CP resigned.

... well, nobody but all the vets and pro bowlers on the team.

The only 'semi' talented player that's been cut from this team is Pollard and even that is debatable. We have no idea whats happening internally with the Chiefs so anything debating otherwise is frivolous speculation.

Not much of a debate... Pollard (even having missed 5 games) is having a Pro Bowl caliber season.

5. That's all well and good but who would you hire? What qualified candidate was out at the that time that we missed out on? The coaching pool was just as shallow as the FA pool this year and the Chiefs got into it late because they hired their HC so late in the process.

If we were dead set on playing the 3-4, I would've hired Brian Billick.

And wasn't Gunther's second chance at the DC under Vermiel just as awful as his third under Herm when he was given the FAs he wanted and ran the defense how he wanted as well? He still didn't do anything with it. And now in Detroit his defense lost to the Rams. Not exactly glowing credentials.

Gunther never had talent on the defensive side of the ball this entire decade. It takes more than just one good DE.

6. Its in Vogue its what he built the Pats before they switched over. So he can do both but he's done one better for longer.

If he can do both, he should've done what was best for the team.

9. Brown is still on the team (IR but on the team). It doesn't really matter in my mind who the team drafts post rounds 1-4. Everything after 4 is a crap shoot.

Well, it DOES matter. There were still players capable of contributing RIGHT NOW to this team who were drafted AFTER Brown. Brown wasn't good enough to make the team and they're hiding him on the IR. They've never announced his injury.

11. They play equivalent ball. Pollard and Brown are on pace to set the same amount of tackles (they're both averaging ~6 tackles a game) the edge goes to Brown who also has a sack.

The "edge", one week later is no longer in Brown's corner. It NEVER actually was. If those players are playing equivalently, wouldn't the "edge" go to the player who's 7 years younger and who has a better chance at contributing to the team for the long term? Pollard now leads in tackles AND INTs.

12. Yea he was decent depth that I agree with but the argument was that he was impact and he wasn't impact. Where was the impact? The defense played the same with or without him in the line up. So where's the loss?

The loss is in age. He was playing on the same level as Edwards is now and is younger. Edwards has peaked. Tyler is just going to get better for the next few years.

Do 3-4 lineman really make eye popping stats? I don't know what you're looking for in Jackson he's doing basically what he was drafted for. If you're looking for sacks then I suggest you watch replays of the game and tell me exactly how many times he's in when the down is an obvious passing down.

I wasn't looking for sacks. I'm looking for a performance at least equal to the player who he was drafted to replace. I was looking for performances like the one he had today against Jacksonville... everywhere, showing effort while racking up 7 tkls. Hopefully he can sustain the level.

13. I remember someone telling me DJ was a beast (it wasn't you I don't think) or that he was dominant or some form or another but all we've seen from DJ since he's been drafted is an average LB not living up to his potential. Best defensive player? Possibly when he decides to play up to his potential then I'll believe it. If he was so great why hasn't he made pro bowl at least once yet?

I even called for him to have a break out year.
DJ has been streaky to say the least. But he's still the best athlete on the team. He should be playing.

15. I don't know why they aren't playing. You can ask 9 out of 10 other people and they'll probably say the same thing. Any guess is as good as mine as to why they aren't playing.

... they aren't good enough to beat out the players they were traded for to replace.


16. I do. and I've seen Haley yell at Brodie for being a dumbass, Cassel once or twice for miscommunication and the whole Brian Waters thing...Thats about it. You've insinuated that he's just a constant debbie downer on his players. Always putting them down and never saying anything positive about them and in turn losing the club house? When? Where? How many different players have you heard this from? Why did they give Haley a Gatorade shower at the WA game? Is that type of celebration really indicative to a team that hates its HC?

One player gave him the Gatorade bath, which he then turned around and showed his players he didn't appreciate. Yeah, he really brings the players around him up.

17. Hey look we agree. I wanted more O-Lineman as well. I wanted at least 3 new decent ones possibly 4 but not everything goes according to plan.

3 players "contributing" to this team from this past draft is FAR from going "according to plan."


GREAT day from Tyson Jackson!!! It only took 8 weeks and a bye week, but he finally showed up!!

THERE IS A GOD.

[josh1971]

GREAT day from Tyson Jackson!!! It only took 8 weeks and a bye week, but he finally showed up!!

THERE IS A GOD.

No... there is a Tyson Jackson:bananen_smilies046:

[texaschief]

... and we're back down to earth. Two more games, two more tkls. that's 13 in 11 games.

The argument that "3-4 DEs aren't supposed to make tackles" is absolutely ridiculous. Is Glenn Dorsey just having a bad year at 3-4 DE? The guys DOES, after all have 33 tackles from that position this season. Someone needs to tell him to quit tackling so much.