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figcrostic
11-16-2009, 12:57 PM
I don't think he sucks, and I know we our offense is still in the gelling process, but I honest don't think he is elite or ever will be elite. I don't think he has great accuracy, I don't think he has a great arm, and I don't think he has great vision either. I would say he will be a good quaterback, but never be great. Heres the thing we don't need great, we need good we need a guy that doesn't throw a lot of of interceptions, which he doesn't, but we also need accuracy and right now he doesn't have it, right now he is not a good QB. Trent Green was a good QB behind phenomenal line he had great accuracy and an average arm. Cassel doesn't have the luxury of a good line, and has bad accuracy he overthrows balls or underthrows so when a receiver catches the ball he has to slow down to catch it because of his slow release. I don't think he is worth what we are paying him, because I think he is a 3rd pick at best and we are paying him like a 1st rounder which he isn't. I think we need to work on our O-line and possible pick up a QB with that second round pick we got for Tony, im not saying we should get rid of Cassel but he does need competition which Brody is not going to give him not because Brodie isn't good but Brodie gets hurt too easy so he will pretty much always be a career back up.

Argo
11-16-2009, 01:10 PM
Me neither, but the thing is , he doesn't need to be elite in order for us to succeed. In my opinion the fact that he doesn't turn the ball is fantastic, he is very patient and isn't afraid of getting hit.

In other words, we need to elevate the quality of the players around him, specially the O-Line and WRs that don't drop the ball.

Cheers

matthewschiefs
11-16-2009, 01:25 PM
I dont that he can be an elite qb in the NFL i dont no that he cant. Thats something that is just going to be a wait and see type deal. Given time to devolpe i think he has all the tools. But you never no.

KottkeKU
11-16-2009, 01:31 PM
you dont need an "elite" qb to win the superbowl.... Cassel and Vrabel for a 2nd rounder is a pretty good deal... id say we are getting what he's worth considering this is the worst offensive line in nfl history (or close to it...) how can you judge anyone on this offense? He gets sacked/hurried pretty much every time he drops back.... Sure he isn't perfect, but he is only human...and he is in a new system with new players....

basically i am saying Cassel is fine, and he is plenty good enough to win a superbowl... given his team and most importantly defense can be "elite"....

SAPHOJUNKIE
11-16-2009, 01:39 PM
I am not impressed with him, either, but I'm certainly not unimpressed. I don't think he has really had that many opportunities to go out and win the game or make great plays. He's had a revolving door of underperforming wide receivers, an offensive line with all the protection of a kleenex condom, and a stagnant running game.

Now, I'm a believer in the QB position. I think it is hugely important, and good teams don't usually win with mediocre Qb's. However, I think Cassel can be every bit as good as Eli Manning or Ben Roethlesberger. Last time I checked, they had rings.

brish
11-16-2009, 01:42 PM
The good thing about this Cassel deal is, that we have seen a glimpse of what he CAN be, if you surround him with talent. He did pretty well in NE last year..

If we were to draft someone, it would be pretty much a guess..

Argo
11-16-2009, 01:47 PM
"kleenex condom"

LOL

hometeam
11-16-2009, 03:44 PM
I agree mostly with this post.

He has done well in not throwing picks, but he also holds the ball too long.

His accuracy leaves much to be desired, as does his decision making. If you look back through my posts in the offseason I railed against him quite a bit. I hope that he improves, and I think he can, but as it sits now, I would still rather have Thiggy :P

SIC J
11-16-2009, 04:13 PM
You guys make NO SENSE. How can you say, "I'm not impressed with him, although he has possibly the worst O-line in NFL history......."

Thats just retarded!

Bike
11-16-2009, 04:33 PM
Cassel is doing well considering the monster hits the guy has been taking. And he is showing leadership qualities (ie: consoling Savage after the bumble). With no ol, oc, qb coach, or wr coach, I think he's doing as well as anyone could expect.

Three7s
11-16-2009, 05:31 PM
I agree mostly with this post.

He has done well in not throwing picks, but he also holds the ball too long.

His accuracy leaves much to be desired, as does his decision making. If you look back through my posts in the offseason I railed against him quite a bit. I hope that he improves, and I think he can, but as it sits now, I would still rather have Thiggy :P
Yes, the great Tyler Thigpen and his side-armed throws and constant under-throwing of go routes. Yeah, I think you guys know where this is going.

figcrostic
11-16-2009, 05:37 PM
You guys make NO SENSE. How can you say, "I'm not impressed with him, although he has possibly the worst O-line in NFL history......."

Thats just retarded!
Its not just our O-line when he was New England he was one of the most sacke qbs cause he holds onto the ball too long, plus his accuracy has been crappy the line doesn't determine that it's not like hes been getting rid of the ball too soon and its affecting his accuracy he holds onto it too long and still has bad accuracy

Chiefster
11-16-2009, 05:50 PM
Its not just our O-line when he was New England he was one of the most sacke qbs cause he holds onto the ball too long, plus his accuracy has been crappy the line doesn't determine that it's not like hes been getting rid of the ball too soon and its affecting his accuracy he holds onto it too long and still has bad accuracy

Yeah, really the only problem I have with him is that he doesn't try to throw it away when no one is open down field outside the tackles.

yashi
11-16-2009, 05:57 PM
I agree with most of what's been said. Cassel has looked good at times, and has looked pretty bad at times. I don't think he'll be elite since his arm strength seems to be average at best, but he does strike me as a great leader. I liked how after Savage had the big fumble after already being yelled at by Haley, Cassel went over and gave him a pep talk.

figcrostic
11-16-2009, 05:58 PM
Yeah, really the only problem I have with him is that he doesn't try to throw it away when no one is open down field outside the tackles.
Yeah im not sure why he does that

Vandelay
11-16-2009, 07:46 PM
I think Cassel has played pretty well considering all the pressure he has been under.
Seems like on the rare occasion he has time, he makes the most of it.
I'm certainly going to give him the benifit of the doubt until he gets a chance with a decent o-line.

dennystillchiefs
11-16-2009, 08:40 PM
actuality I,am impressed with cassel so far. with the beatings he has takeing this year. he been doing ,all right . He,s not Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, but both of them would'nt be doing as good under the same o,line have you seen how much time they get to throw appeared to Cassel

honda522
11-16-2009, 09:04 PM
If you ask me the whole dam offense is not working right. You got backs running into Qb's, WR lining up wrong, and lineman not taking on the right personnel.

Shape up or ship out.

figcrostic
11-16-2009, 10:15 PM
actuality I,am impressed with cassel so far. with the beatings he has takeing this year. he been doing ,all right . He,s not Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, but both of them would'nt be doing as good under the same o,line have you seen how much time they get to throw appeared to Cassel

Tom Brady had 41 sacks the year he won his first superbowl he did not have a good line and really he carried that team. The fact that you even compare Cassel to Brady is an insult, Tom Brady is a Hall of Famer.

brish
11-17-2009, 03:14 AM
How anyone can berrate Cassel for poor accuracy and then want Thiggy is beyond me..
You can't really compare the two though, as the offenses are completely different, and no godlike hands from TG..

texaschief
11-17-2009, 03:57 AM
Cassel is doing well considering the monster hits the guy has been taking. And he is showing leadership qualities (ie: consoling Savage after the bumble). With no ol, oc, qb coach, or wr coach, I think he's doing as well as anyone could expect.

Truth


Its not just our O-line when he was New England he was one of the most sacke qbs cause he holds onto the ball too long, plus his accuracy has been crappy the line doesn't determine that it's not like hes been getting rid of the ball too soon and its affecting his accuracy he holds onto it too long and still has bad accuracy

Truth.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt with the New England line. After they "let" Brady get hurt, I just figured their time as a good O-line was over and all of Cassels sacks last year would've been sacks even if Brady had been healthy. The New England line made one change from last year and rank first in the league in fewest sacks allowed this season. Even more evidence that the sack issue has just as much to do with Cassel as it does the O-line. But, by evidence of how horrible the O-line is at run-blocking, it's not ENTIRELY Cassel's fault either.


Yeah, really the only problem I have with him is that he doesn't try to throw it away when no one is open down field outside the tackles.

This has frustrated me ALL SEASON. Why doesn't the QB coach tell him something like "get rid of the ball?" My guess is he's probably too busy feuding with too many of his other players to even think about coaching up his QB.



If you ask me the whole dam offense is not working right. You got backs running into Qb's, WR lining up wrong, and lineman not taking on the right personnel.

Shape up or ship out.

This is a coaching issue... not a talent issue. MIGHT have something to do with switching the entire offense the week before the season started...


The deal for Cassel/Vrabel was a great deal for the Chiefs. I have my doubts about Cassel as a franchise QB, but quite honestly, you can't really name more than 10 entrenched "franchise QB's" in the NFL right now that you'd feel comfortable building your team around.

Brady-Patriots
Manning-Colts
McNabb-Eagles
Brees-Saints
Rivers-Chargers
Manning-Giants
Ryan-Falcons
Roethlisberger-Steelers
Palmer?-Bengals
Flacco?-Ravens
Cutler?-Bears
Stafford?-Lions
Sanchez?-Jets
Shaub?-Texans

If you look at the list, the first 9 or 10 teams are on the elite level of the NFL which would go against the "you don't NEED an elite QB to win" theory... (which i agree with lol)

At the end of the day, you gotta go with someone. I thought Brodie and/or Thigpen could've handled the duties until we got our O-line in order, but that didn't happen. Hopefully, this season for Cassel will be one like Aikmen had to endure in Dallas.

I just don't see how Pioli could think Haley has done even an average job of coaching these players. He's got his head so far up his own :sign0053: with appointing himself pretty much the ONLY offensive coach on the team. In order for your players to perform at the level you think they should be performing, they need coaching. One man can't do it all and the players can't coach themselves.

The head coach shouldn't be:
teaching WRs where to lineup,
while teaching his QB where his reads and progressions should go on any given coverage per play,
while developing a game plan for the next opponent,
while developing an offensive game plan for the next opponent
while developing a defensive game plan for the next opponent
while watching game film,
while PROPERLY evaluating the talent on the team, while feuding with disgruntled players
while trying to find more "players off the street"
while holding press conferences
while blowing smoke up his own ***

THIS COACHING SITUATION MAKES ABSOLUTELY ZERO SENSE.

chief31
11-17-2009, 04:49 AM
actuality I,am impressed with cassel so far. with the beatings he has takeing this year. he been doing ,all right . He,s not Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, but both of them would'nt be doing as good under the same o,line have you seen how much time they get to throw appeared to Cassel


Me too, considering the expectations I had for him with this offense.

All things considered, I think he has done prety well.

loyalchief91
11-17-2009, 08:13 AM
He has done decent, nothing too spectacular but nothing too horrible either.

Chiefster
11-17-2009, 09:44 AM
This has frustrated me ALL SEASON. Why doesn't the QB coach tell him something like "get rid of the ball?" My guess is he's probably too busy feuding with too many of his other players to even think about coaching up his QB.

To quote HH: "word".

matthewschiefs
11-17-2009, 11:01 AM
He has done decent, nothing too spectacular but nothing too horrible either.

I think hes been pretty good the one negitive i see is sometime he has time to get rid of the ball before being sacked and doesn't. Besides that I think he shows some promise.

josh1971
11-17-2009, 11:33 AM
The head coach shouldn't be:
teaching WRs where to lineup,
while teaching his QB where his reads and progressions should go on any given coverage per play,
while developing a game plan for the next opponent,
while developing an offensive game plan for the next opponent
while developing a defensive game plan for the next opponent
while watching game film,
while PROPERLY evaluating the talent on the team, while feuding with disgruntled players
while trying to find more "players off the street"
while holding press conferences
while blowing smoke up his own ***

THIS COACHING SITUATION MAKES ABSOLUTELY ZERO SENSE.

This part quoted for absolute truth.

rustic
11-17-2009, 11:36 AM
I don't think Cassel is the weak link on the Chiefs roster right now.

I think he's exactly what we should have been looking for in Spring '09. As the season ended last year, my first thought about the Chiefs was that we absolutely had to get a QB who wouldn't lose it for us. Not necessarily make amazing plays and somehow save the day (sure, it'd be nice), but someone who could stay healthy and just not screw it up too badly.

I think Cassel has done that admirably. Bringing him in wasn't particularly risky or expensive (in draft picks.. it was in $$). I bet you could find at least a dozen teams this year who'd kill to have him on the same terms. We definitely met one last Sunday.

Right now, I think the number one focus to fix the Chiefs should be finding the weakest links and replacing them. O-Line and secondary (safety) probably are the most obvious needs I can see.

But Cassel's a long, long ways from being the weak link in this chain. Yeah, he's had his share of issues, but I have a hard time believing that next year's Sanchez or Stafford would be such an amazing upgrade that it'd be worth *not* fixing our other glaring issues.

I actually like our QB depth right now. Watching Denver bring in Chris Simms (and Oaklind bring in Gradkowski) made me really appreciate Brodie Croyle.

matthewschiefs
11-17-2009, 01:25 PM
I don't think Cassel is the weak link on the Chiefs roster right now.

I think he's exactly what we should have been looking for in Spring '09. As the season ended last year, my first thought about the Chiefs was that we absolutely had to get a QB who wouldn't lose it for us. Not necessarily make amazing plays and somehow save the day (sure, it'd be nice), but someone who could stay healthy and just not screw it up too badly.

I think Cassel has done that admirably. Bringing him in wasn't particularly risky or expensive (in draft picks.. it was in $$). I bet you could find at least a dozen teams this year who'd kill to have him on the same terms. We definitely met one last Sunday.

Right now, I think the number one focus to fix the Chiefs should be finding the weakest links and replacing them. O-Line and secondary (safety) probably are the most obvious needs I can see.

But Cassel's a long, long ways from being the weak link in this chain. Yeah, he's had his share of issues, but I have a hard time believing that next year's Sanchez or Stafford would be such an amazing upgrade that it'd be worth *not* fixing our other glaring issues.

I actually like our QB depth right now. Watching Denver bring in Chris Simms (and Oaklind bring in Gradkowski) made me really appreciate Brodie Croyle.

First welcome to the crowd. I defently agree there are many teams that probley wish they had our QB depth. I for one like what we have there. Thats a postion of strenght on this team right now.

figcrostic
11-17-2009, 06:35 PM
I don't think Cassel is the weak link on the Chiefs roster right now.

I think he's exactly what we should have been looking for in Spring '09. As the season ended last year, my first thought about the Chiefs was that we absolutely had to get a QB who wouldn't lose it for us. Not necessarily make amazing plays and somehow save the day (sure, it'd be nice), but someone who could stay healthy and just not screw it up too badly.

I think Cassel has done that admirably. Bringing him in wasn't particularly risky or expensive (in draft picks.. it was in $$). I bet you could find at least a dozen teams this year who'd kill to have him on the same terms. We definitely met one last Sunday.

Right now, I think the number one focus to fix the Chiefs should be finding the weakest links and replacing them. O-Line and secondary (safety) probably are the most obvious needs I can see.

But Cassel's a long, long ways from being the weak link in this chain. Yeah, he's had his share of issues, but I have a hard time believing that next year's Sanchez or Stafford would be such an amazing upgrade that it'd be worth *not* fixing our other glaring issues.

I actually like our QB depth right now. Watching Denver bring in Chris Simms (and Oaklind bring in Gradkowski) made me really appreciate Brodie Croyle.

I am by no means saying he is anywhere near our weakest link he will be good if he has a good line, but he's not gonna carry our team like everyone thought he's just not that good, but if we have more tools for him and protection we will have a damn good team

greg3564
11-17-2009, 08:14 PM
Damn, some of you guys are so impatient. So here's a news flash- THIS TEAM IS NOT GOING TO BE A PLAYOFF CALIBER TEAM FOR ANOTHER TWO OR THREE SEASONS!!! We are in week 11 of the first season of a completely redone football franchise. About the only thing more drastic would have been an ownership change. We have a new GM, a new head coach and a lot of young players. How does anyone expect Cassel to play better considering what he has to work with? He has one of the worst offensive lines, until a couple weeks ago he had a locker room cancer in LJ running the ball(or lack thereof), wide receivers who can't catch footballs in practice let alone in a game and no Tony Gonzalez. Now add in that one of the better WR's we have is essentially gone for the season for drug issues. I don't know of any QB who could do much better in the same circumstances. If you guys are that impatient, maybe it's time to root for another team. I guess I'm more objective and see the little things that this team is doing right and the improvements they've made. After three years of Herm Edwards, I'm willing to give Pioli and Haley and Cassel a chance.

IlovetheChiefs
11-17-2009, 08:33 PM
As disappointing as 2-7 is, at least we can say that, other than the first Oakland game, we've beaten every team with a losing record and only lost to teams with a winning record.

Drunker Hillbilly
11-18-2009, 10:54 AM
I'm just not sure we can hang this guy just yet. With the terrible O line we have and the glaring lack of weapons he has, the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned. We saw him in NE produce even though he had been sacked a ton but I just don't see how anyone could be successfull with no weapons and no O line.

Hayvern
11-18-2009, 02:53 PM
I am very impressed with his toughness. He needs to work on his vision, in particular, spotting the open man, but again that is hard to do when all you see is 350 pounds of defensive lineman on your face.

I think he will be a good QB for us. He has struggled this year and has made some mistakes but that is the way it will be for any young QB. I don't think he was an upgrade over Thigpen, but he is better than Croyle.

matthewschiefs
11-18-2009, 03:44 PM
I am very impressed with his toughness. He needs to work on his vision, in particular, spotting the open man, but again that is hard to do when all you see is 350 pounds of defensive lineman on your face.

I think he will be a good QB for us. He has struggled this year and has made some mistakes but that is the way it will be for any young QB. I don't think he was an upgrade over Thigpen, but he is better than Croyle.

He has defently proven he can take a hit. he has done nothing put get right back up. He has not proved that hes worth 60 million. But he also has not proven that hes not worth that or might not live up to that. Time will just have to tell.

figcrostic
11-18-2009, 05:41 PM
He has defently proven he can take a hit. he has done nothing put get right back up. He has not proved that hes worth 60 million. But he also has not proven that hes not worth that or might not live up to that. Time will just have to tell.
He can take a hit but can't hit his receivers worth a damn.

Bike
11-18-2009, 07:13 PM
He can take a hit but can't hit his receivers worth a damn.
Thats because he's too busy taking hits...

yashi
11-18-2009, 07:14 PM
Thats because he's too busy taking hits...
I didn't know Ricky Williams was our QB.

figcrostic
11-18-2009, 09:16 PM
Thats because he's too busy taking hits...
And it's mostly his fault he needs to quit having stage fright and release the damn ball, that's why last year and this year he has been the most sacked QB. Tom Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007 Matt Cassel with the same line and one game less was sacked 47 times thats more then double the amount with the same line, so it's not just our crappy line Matt needs to release the ball sooner not just to avoid a sack, but he needs to hit his receivers sooner so they don't have to slow down to make the catch.

chief31
11-19-2009, 04:46 AM
And it's mostly his fault he needs to quit having stage fright and release the damn ball, that's why last year and this year he has been the most sacked QB. Tom Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007 Matt Cassel with the same line and one game less was sacked 47 times thats more then double the amount with the same line, so it's not just our crappy line Matt needs to release the ball sooner not just to avoid a sack, but he needs to hit his receivers sooner so they don't have to slow down to make the catch.

Unfortunately, if he "quits having stage freight", then he is likelier to be injured. If he does find a way to ignore the pressure, then he will start taking harder hits, without being able to prepare for impact.

So, while that was my criticism of his play with The Patriots, I can't really be as judgemental about this season.

pbatrucker
11-19-2009, 08:04 AM
Both sides to this argument have good points. We all agree the OL stinks.
Cassell was sacked twice as much in 2008 than Brady in 2007, but then again I believe Brady is being sacked more this year than in 2007.
I agree Cassell holds the ball too long. But if he could trust the WR to run the correct routes and be were they should be, maybe he would have the confidence to relaease the ball earlier.
All I'm saying is it's a combined effort, OL, QB, WR and coaching.

chief31
11-19-2009, 09:15 AM
Both sides to this argument have good points. We all agree the OL stinks.
Cassell was sacked twice as much in 2008 than Brady in 2007, but then again I believe Brady is being sacked more this year than in 2007.
I agree Cassell holds the ball too long. But if he could trust the WR to run the correct routes and be were they should be, maybe he would have the confidence to relaease the ball earlier.
All I'm saying is it's a combined effort, OL, QB, WR and coaching.

Just to clarify...
The New England Patriots rank third in fewest sacks allowed, so far, this season.

NFL Stats: by Team Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASS ING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKED&d-447263-n=1)

They ranked 5th in 2007. (With Tom Brady)

NFL Stats: by Team Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASS ING&archive=true&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKED&d-447263-n=1&season=2007&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1)

And they ranked 28th in 2008 (with mostly Matt Casell)

NFL Stats: by Team Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASS ING&archive=true&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKED&d-447263-n=1&season=2008&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1)

Bike
11-19-2009, 09:20 AM
And it's mostly his fault he needs to quit having stage fright and release the damn ball, that's why last year and this year he has been the most sacked QB. Tom Brady was sacked 21 times in 2007 Matt Cassel with the same line and one game less was sacked 47 times thats more then double the amount with the same line, so it's not just our crappy line Matt needs to release the ball sooner not just to avoid a sack, but he needs to hit his receivers sooner so they don't have to slow down to make the catch.
I agree with all that but it would certainly help if Cassel did have a better offensive line. It would also help if he had a qb coach and an offensive coordinator. And it would help if his recievers could run some decent routes. Can't really compare now to Cassels time in New England. Cassel aint Tom Brady. Not many people are. Cassel DID win games there. But that probably had to do with a superior support system he had there that he can only dream about here.

SIC J
11-19-2009, 10:49 AM
I agree with all that but it would certainly help if Cassel did have a better offensive line. It would also help if he had a qb coach and an offensive coordinator. And it would help if his recievers could run some decent routes. Can't really compare now to Cassels time in New England. Cassel aint Tom Brady. Not many people are. Cassel DID win games there. But that probably had to do with a superior support system he had there that he can only dream about here.

I agree with this.

Thats why I am yet to have a real opinion on Cassel. Going from a "great" team to a terrible one, you can't really say how good or not he really is. BUT at the same time, Cassel still has to play the game, make the throws, etc and won 10 games last year as a "back-up" QB.

Let's be honest, how many "back-up" QBs have won 10 games in a season?

figcrostic
11-19-2009, 02:29 PM
Just to clarify...
The New England Patriots rank third in fewest sacks allowed, so far, this season.

NFL Stats: by Team Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASS ING&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=ALL&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKED&d-447263-n=1)

They ranked 5th in 2007. (With Tom Brady)

NFL Stats: by Team Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASS ING&archive=true&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKED&d-447263-n=1&season=2007&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1)

And they ranked 28th in 2008 (with mostly Matt Casell)

NFL Stats: by Team Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?offensiveStatisticCategory=TEAM_PASS ING&archive=true&seasonType=REG&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&d-447263-s=PASSING_SACKED&d-447263-n=1&season=2008&qualified=true&Submit=Go&tabSeq=2&role=TM&d-447263-p=1)

And once again the O-line is magically great again Brady only sacked 12 times in 9 games if you stretch that over 16 games that's 21 sacks. The patriots didn't get way better Tom Brady just releases the ball quicker. Same line one year 21 sacks next year 47 it's the QB.

figcrostic
11-19-2009, 02:31 PM
I agree with this.

Thats why I am yet to have a real opinion on Cassel. Going from a "great" team to a terrible one, you can't really say how good or not he really is. BUT at the same time, Cassel still has to play the game, make the throws, etc and won 10 games last year as a "back-up" QB.

Let's be honest, how many "back-up" QBs have won 10 games in a season?

**** Tyler Thigpen and Brodie Croyle would have won 10 games with a team that won 19 straight games the year before.

SIC J
11-19-2009, 02:51 PM
**** Tyler Thigpen and Brodie Croyle would have won 10 games with a team that won 19 straight games the year before.

I highly doubt that...........

yashi
11-19-2009, 03:13 PM
Sacks are always just as much about the QB as they are about the offensive line, if not more so. Cassel is always going to be sacked a lot no matter how good our line is, because similar to Roethlisberger and Rodgers, he holds the ball too long.

figcrostic
11-19-2009, 04:47 PM
Sacks are always just as much about the QB as they are about the offensive line, if not more so. Cassel is always going to be sacked a lot no matter how good our line is, because similar to Roethlisberger and Rodgers, he holds the ball too long.
Yeah but Cassel doesn't have the weapons big Ben has or his arm strength, that's why he gets away with it.

yashi
11-19-2009, 07:01 PM
Yeah but Cassel doesn't have the weapons big Ben has or his arm strength, that's why he gets away with it.

Cassel is not as good as Ben or Rodgers. I was just comparing the fact that all three QBs have a tendency to hold onto the ball too long.

tornadospotter
11-19-2009, 09:31 PM
Truth



Truth.

I was giving him the benefit of the doubt with the New England line. After they "let" Brady get hurt, I just figured their time as a good O-line was over and all of Cassels sacks last year would've been sacks even if Brady had been healthy. The New England line made one change from last year and rank first in the league in fewest sacks allowed this season. Even more evidence that the sack issue has just as much to do with Cassel as it does the O-line. But, by evidence of how horrible the O-line is at run-blocking, it's not ENTIRELY Cassel's fault either.



This has frustrated me ALL SEASON. Why doesn't the QB coach tell him something like "get rid of the ball?" My guess is he's probably too busy feuding with too many of his other players to even think about coaching up his QB.




This is a coaching issue... not a talent issue. MIGHT have something to do with switching the entire offense the week before the season started...


The deal for Cassel/Vrabel was a great deal for the Chiefs. I have my doubts about Cassel as a franchise QB, but quite honestly, you can't really name more than 10 entrenched "franchise QB's" in the NFL right now that you'd feel comfortable building your team around.

Brady-Patriots
Manning-Colts
McNabb-Eagles
Brees-Saints
Rivers-Chargers
Manning-Giants
Ryan-Falcons
Roethlisberger-Steelers
Palmer?-Bengals
Flacco?-Ravens
Cutler?-Bears
Stafford?-Lions
Sanchez?-Jets
Shaub?-Texans

If you look at the list, the first 9 or 10 teams are on the elite level of the NFL which would go against the "you don't NEED an elite QB to win" theory... (which i agree with lol)

At the end of the day, you gotta go with someone. I thought Brodie and/or Thigpen could've handled the duties until we got our O-line in order, but that didn't happen. Hopefully, this season for Cassel will be one like Aikmen had to endure in Dallas.

I just don't see how Pioli could think Haley has done even an average job of coaching these players. He's got his head so far up his own :sign0053: with appointing himself pretty much the ONLY offensive coach on the team. In order for your players to perform at the level you think they should be performing, they need coaching. One man can't do it all and the players can't coach themselves.

The head coach shouldn't be:
teaching WRs where to lineup,
while teaching his QB where his reads and progressions should go on any given coverage per play,
while developing a game plan for the next opponent,
while developing an offensive game plan for the next opponent
while developing a defensive game plan for the next opponent
while watching game film,
while PROPERLY evaluating the talent on the team, while feuding with disgruntled players
while trying to find more "players off the street"
while holding press conferences
while blowing smoke up his own ***

THIS COACHING SITUATION MAKES ABSOLUTELY ZERO SENSE.
I AGREE!!!!!!!!! Where is Chan?






That's right I forgot, he did not fit the plan.

Canada
11-19-2009, 10:30 PM
I gotta disagree with this. I now that Chan was great at using what he had, but it has always been a band aid fix. We are stripping this team down to nothing and rebuilding it. I would rather we got a system that will be here for a while and find guys to fit into that system as opposed to taking the guys we have and finding some half assed pistol offense that will "get by" Sure it is tough sledding right now, but Rome was not built in a day. Keep Chan, run the "pistol" and we are in the exact same boat next year as we are this year. Its not like having a million coaches has worked out for the last two seasons.

tornadospotter
11-20-2009, 12:03 AM
I gotta disagree with this. I now that Chan was great at using what he had, but it has always been a band aid fix. We are stripping this team down to nothing and rebuilding it. I would rather we got a system that will be here for a while and find guys to fit into that system as opposed to taking the guys we have and finding some half assed pistol offense that will "get by" Sure it is tough sledding right now, but Rome was not built in a day. Keep Chan, run the "pistol" and we are in the exact same boat next year as we are this year. Its not like having a million coaches has worked out for the last two seasons.
I can agree on that we are once again rebuilding, but how does a Head Coach build a program with out the proper tools to do so, how does a Head Coach train a team to do the job they need to do with out coaching? Head Coach can not be everywhere. It is like Incident Command System, The IC cannot do it all.

Canada
11-20-2009, 12:36 AM
I can agree on that we are once again rebuilding, but how does a Head Coach build a program with out the proper tools to do so, how does a Head Coach train a team to do the job they need to do with out coaching? Head Coach can not be everywhere. It is like Incident Command System, The IC cannot do it all.

I guess we could go out and get all new everything at once but I dont think that is really possible. Im just saying that if we continue to build our team around the guys we have then we will continue to be mediocre, if we find the right people for the right system then we will be better off int he long run. I personally would like to see us play an NFL offense as opposed to running some sort of wildcat or pistol offense because we dont have the players to play real football. Obviously there are going to be complaints from day one no matter what happens. I read hundreds of posts on here about "Why are we signing so many WRs when we need help everywhere else?" then low and behold....Bowe is suspended and we need a WR. Good forsight on the part of Pioli and Haley if u ask me. Everyone will have their opinions on how to build a football team but just because someone on Chiefs Crowd does not agree with how things are done does not mean that they are being done wrong. If rebuilding an NFL team were easy then TexasChief would already have the job!!

tornadospotter
11-20-2009, 01:38 AM
I guess we could go out and get all new everything at once but I dont think that is really possible. Im just saying that if we continue to build our team around the guys we have then we will continue to be mediocre, if we find the right people for the right system then we will be better off int he long run. I personally would like to see us play an NFL offense as opposed to running some sort of wildcat or pistol offense because we dont have the players to play real football. Obviously there are going to be complaints from day one no matter what happens. I read hundreds of posts on here about "Why are we signing so many WRs when we need help everywhere else?" then low and behold....Bowe is suspended and we need a WR. Good forsight on the part of Pioli and Haley if u ask me. Everyone will have their opinions on how to build a football team but just because someone on Chiefs Crowd does not agree with how things are done does not mean that they are being done wrong. If rebuilding an NFL team were easy then TexasChief would already have the job!!
I understand what you are saying, and it is not Chan could have save this season, or any of that. But how can you be a Head Coach of a NFL team, and the be the OC of a NFL team, and then be a QB coach of a NFL team, owe and also be a WR coach of a NFL team, at the same time! HE IS A FUNGING ROOKIE NFL COACH, THAT FIRED HIS OC ONE WEEK BEFORE SEASON, WITH NO REPLACEMENT! That is just stupid, in my oppion, maybe in the future it pays out, but there may be a new HH if it does not turn for the better soon. Just not on the Haley band wagon yet, I want the chin.:11:

Chiefster
11-20-2009, 02:11 AM
I understand what you are saying, and it is not Chan could have save this season, or any of that. But how can you be a Head Coach of a NFL team, and the be the OC of a NFL team, and then be a QB coach of a NFL team, owe and also be a WR coach of a NFL team, at the same time! HE IS A FUNGING ROOKIE NFL COACH, THAT FIRED HIS OC ONE WEEK BEFORE SEASON, WITH NO REPLACEMENT! That is just stupid, in my oppion, maybe in the future it pays out, but there may be a new HH if it does not turn for the better soon. Just not on the Haley band wagon yet, I want the chin.:11:

There can only be one HH. :D

tornadospotter
11-20-2009, 02:19 AM
There can only be one HH. :D
So true, but maybe he needs to come back,with a slight change of name, with his parrots!!

Chiefster
11-20-2009, 02:22 AM
So true, but maybe he needs to come back,with a slight change of name, with his parrots!!


You mean like TH???

tornadospotter
11-20-2009, 02:29 AM
You mean like TH???
Well we may need to rethink this, I mean really do we want the parrots back? I do think maybe we need to send out a search and rescue mission for HH, he has been missing for some time.

Chiefster
11-20-2009, 02:31 AM
Well we may need to rethink this, I mean really do we want the parrots back? I do think maybe we need to send out a search and rescue mission for HH, he has been missing for some time.


True; he has been MIA for far too long.

figcrostic
11-21-2009, 09:31 AM
True; he has been MIA for far too long.
Is that your son in the picture? cause theres no way you could be that young and be a fan for so long.

tornadospotter
11-21-2009, 02:58 PM
Is that your son in the picture? cause theres no way you could be that young and be a fan for so long.
That person in the picture is a future Kansas City Chief!!!

Coach
11-21-2009, 11:33 PM
In other words, we need to elevate the quality of the players around him, specially the O-Line and WRs that don't drop the ball.
I think this will help Cassell more than anything else.


I think Cassel has played pretty well considering all the pressure he has been under.
Seems like on the rare occasion he has time, he makes the most of it.
I'm certainly going to give him the benifit of the doubt until he gets a chance with a decent o-line.
Agreed. I think considering that he never has a chance to get comfortable in the pocket, that he has done well. I wish they would play him in shotgun more often and run no-huddlle more often as well.

endzonewillie
11-22-2009, 05:06 PM
Matt Cassell played a decent game today. The throw to Long over the middle was a nice throw. Matt will show why he has the contract he was given.

brish
11-22-2009, 05:12 PM
Yeah he did alright, not great but alright.
But I think it's starting to show that he gets hit so much, sometimes he looks nervous in the pocket. But who wouldn't?!?!

The best thing about him? He has a lot of courage, and he doesn't turn it over much! :)

It will be very interresting to see him with a better line..

drstandley31
11-22-2009, 05:16 PM
I don't think he sucks, and I know we our offense is still in the gelling process, but I honest don't think he is elite or ever will be elite. I don't think he has great accuracy, I don't think he has a great arm, and I don't think he has great vision either. I would say he will be a good quaterback, but never be great. Heres the thing we don't need great, we need good we need a guy that doesn't throw a lot of of interceptions, which he doesn't, but we also need accuracy and right now he doesn't have it, right now he is not a good QB. Trent Green was a good QB behind phenomenal line he had great accuracy and an average arm. Cassel doesn't have the luxury of a good line, and has bad accuracy he overthrows balls or underthrows so when a receiver catches the ball he has to slow down to catch it because of his slow release. I don't think he is worth what we are paying him, because I think he is a 3rd pick at best and we are paying him like a 1st rounder which he isn't. I think we need to work on our O-line and possible pick up a QB with that second round pick we got for Tony, im not saying we should get rid of Cassel but he does need competition which Brody is not going to give him not because Brodie isn't good but Brodie gets hurt too easy so he will pretty much always be a career back up.
Are you kidding me. Give this guy a couple real WR's, a running back that isn't in jail half the time, and more than half a second to get the ball in the air before he gets killed, and maybe then we can see what kind of a QB he is. What did you think was going to happen this year????? He's got no supporting cast. When he had one in NE, he did pretty good. You need to relax. Oh, and maybe if he had an OC, that would be a little help too. Short of signing Clark Kent, nobody's gonna set the world on fire in this situation.

Coach
11-22-2009, 05:21 PM
I thought Cassell played well today.

drstandley31
11-22-2009, 10:58 PM
He can take a hit but can't hit his receivers worth a damn.
Sure, it was his fault Bradly couldn't hang on to that pass to end what should have been a game winning drive. Why can't you just enjoy the win?

Chiefster
11-23-2009, 12:22 AM
Is that your son in the picture? cause theres no way you could be that young and be a fan for so long.

That's my boy!

marloweopatchiefs
09-20-2010, 12:19 AM
Here you go frognostic...you started off bashing cassel last year and after the raven game i remember you jumping on the croyle band waggon just can't find the thread at the moment. But here you was bashing cassel and saying we should have kept thigpen etc

Chiefster
09-20-2010, 12:32 AM
Point proven; lets please not drudge up any more old threads.

Fastphilly
09-20-2010, 12:44 AM
I'd say 75% of teams in the NFL have QB issues regarding their level of play. There are only a handful of Bradys, Mannings to go around..All I ask is that our QB is able to sustain drives and be capable of two maybe three TD's passes per game..With a good defence and running attack thats all we need to win most games...As of now, he's good for half a touchdown per game against mediocre secondaries. He did do much better in the second half as far as sustaining drives so there is hope that he will up his play as the season progresses..I know how many feel regarding Cassel..Case in point is the play of Jets QB Sanchez. He looked horrible last week and really upped his game and we are talking about a 2nd year QB with average wideouts (Braylon Edwards is just above average though).

hardcorechiefsfan
09-20-2010, 12:50 AM
I don't know if anyone noticed but Cassel got a bit mouthy at Haley when he asked for a time out. I see Cassel as having little respect for him.

Chiefster
09-20-2010, 12:54 AM
I don't know if anyone noticed but Cassel got a bit mouthy at Haley when he asked for a time out. I see Cassel as having little respect for him.


So Cassel has a little respect for Haley???

Fastphilly
09-20-2010, 12:57 AM
I don't know if anyone noticed but Cassel got a bit mouthy at Haley when he asked for a time out. I see Cassel as having little respect for him.

Obviously Cassel was about to burn them with a big pass play and Haley's timeout prevented him from doing so. :lol:

hardcorechiefsfan
09-20-2010, 01:00 AM
So Cassel has a little respect for Haley???
I don't know chiefster, maybe it wasn't Haley that he he gave that "But why???" to as he flung his arms out in a spoiled way.

Chiefster
09-20-2010, 01:04 AM
I don't know chiefster, maybe it wasn't Haley that he he gave that "But why???" to as he flung his arms out in a spoiled way.


I probably misread your reply. Did you mean Haley has a little respect for Cassel or vise versa.

I saw that too; I just thought that maybe the crowd noise was interfering with Haley's communication with Cassel. However, you could be right.

Chiefster
09-20-2010, 01:06 AM
Ok, I'm tired and my reading comprehension is failing me in my old age. I get what you mean now. My bad. :lol:

SIC J
09-20-2010, 01:06 AM
I don't know if anyone noticed but Cassel got a bit mouthy at Haley when he asked for a time out. I see Cassel as having little respect for him.

Because no other QB in the NFL has ever done that.........

hardcorechiefsfan
09-20-2010, 01:15 AM
Originally Posted by hardcorechiefsfan http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?p=201392#post201392)
I don't know chiefster, maybe it wasn't Haley that he he gave that "But why???" to as he flung his arms out in a spoiled way.
-----------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Chiefsterhttp://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?p=201392#post201392) I probably misread your reply. Did you mean Haley has a little respect for Cassel or vise versa.

I saw that too; I just thought that maybe the crowd noise was interfering with Haley's communication with Cassel. However, you could be right.
--------------------------------------
I meant that Cassel had little respect for Haley. You might be right about the crowd noise, my neighbors tv sounded like it was doing its death dance.

P.S.- Its getting that way with me too

Chiefster
09-20-2010, 01:16 AM
Originally Posted by hardcorechiefsfan http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?p=201392#post201392)
I don't know chiefster, maybe it wasn't Haley that he he gave that "But why???" to as he flung his arms out in a spoiled way.
-----------------------------------------
Originally Posted by Chiefsterhttp://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?p=201392#post201392) I probably misread your reply. Did you mean Haley has a little respect for Cassel or vise versa.

I saw that too; I just thought that maybe the crowd noise was interfering with Haley's communication with Cassel. However, you could be right.
--------------------------------------
I meant that Cassel had little respect for Haley. You might be right about the crowd noise, my neighbors tv sounded like it was doing its death dance.

:lol: They'll do that.

hardcorechiefsfan
09-20-2010, 01:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcorechiefsfan http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?p=201382#post201382)
I don't know if anyone noticed but Cassel got a bit mouthy at Haley when he asked for a time out. I see Cassel as having little respect for him.


Because no other QB in the NFL has ever done that.........


Good night folks!
Sounds like Cassel must be a bit too big for his breeches.

Chiefster
09-20-2010, 01:26 AM
Goon night.

figcrostic
09-20-2010, 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardcorechiefsfan http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?p=201382#post201382)
I don't know if anyone noticed but Cassel got a bit mouthy at Haley when he asked for a time out. I see Cassel as having little respect for him.




Good night folks!
Sounds like Cassel must be a bit too big for his breeches.

Didn't notice that as long as he plays good I don't care what he does that's between him and Haley. Plus Haley doesn't seem like a push-over he can handle himself.

Hayvern
09-20-2010, 02:47 PM
Didn't notice that as long as he plays good I don't care what he does that's between him and Haley. Plus Haley doesn't seem like a push-over he can handle himself.

Whatever happened with that one play was not an isolated incident. They had issues the entire second half with their communications.

yashi
09-20-2010, 02:50 PM
When Cassel got fired up at Haley or whoever he was yelling at was probably the most I've liked Cassel since we've had him. He doesn't get mad enough.

And he's also not very good, etc.

figcrostic
09-20-2010, 03:11 PM
When Cassel got fired up at Haley or whoever he was yelling at was probably the most I've liked Cassel since we've had him. He doesn't get mad enough.

And he's also not very good, etc.

I don't think he's very good either, but everyone thinks im an a-hole for saying what everyone else has been thinking.

N TX Dave
09-20-2010, 03:22 PM
I don't think he's very good either, but everyone thinks im an a-hole for saying what everyone else has been thinking.

No I think the problem is that you say it over and over and over every chance you get and start several threads at a time saying it different ways and any time anyone says anything good you have to reply yes but Cassel sucks. I think by now we know what you think about him. Many of us may think he does but we don't dwell on it like you and we just want the team to do good maybe in spite of him. Becides there is not a lot we can do about it right now is there? He is our QB for good or bad this year and I am sure if he does not get better he will not be here next year if they find someone to replace him with but if they can't he may be here a year longer.

:efpge:

Pro_Angler
09-20-2010, 07:08 PM
When Cassel got fired up at Haley or whoever he was yelling at was probably the most I've liked Cassel since we've had him. He doesn't get mad enough.

And he's also not very good, etc.


Agreed I'd like to see him get some attitude..

Chiefster
09-20-2010, 07:08 PM
No I think the problem is that you say it over and over and over every chance you get and start several threads at a time saying it different ways and any time anyone says anything good you have to reply yes but Cassel sucks. I think by now we know what you think about him. Many of us may think he does but we don't dwell on it like you and we just want the team to do good maybe in spite of him. Becides there is not a lot we can do about it right now is there? He is our QB for good or bad this year and I am sure if he does not get better he will not be here next year if they find someone to replace him with but if they can't he may be here a year longer.

:efpge:

Well played sir! :D

chief31
09-22-2010, 07:44 PM
I don't think he's very good either, but everyone thinks im an a-hole for saying what everyone else has been thinking.


No.

People think you are an a-hole because of the gloating that you do over the problems our QB is having.

You really give the impression that you are thrilled with our QB's poor play.

But then. you have already been informed of this, and you chose to change everyone else's terms on your own.

While some people do get defensive over even the slightest mention of anything negative, you got most of your flack for enjoying the failures of this (2-0) team.

I have seen alot of heated discussions on this board. Usually it is just a couple members dragging things out. But this week has been a massive collection of bickering.

Basically, those who are reacting to your behavior are on an increased defensive toward anyone with a negative thought, as if they support your gloating, not just the opinion.

And that has caused alot more bickering than we, as a (2-0) team that few expected to break .500 this season, should be seeing right now.

Do you really want Matt Cassel to succeed? Or would you rather see him fail?

Ryfo18
09-22-2010, 08:37 PM
No.

People think you are an a-hole because of the gloating that you do over the problems our QB is having.

You really give the impression that you are thrilled with our QB's poor play.

But then. you have already been informed of this, and you chose to change everyone else's terms on your own.

While some people do get defensive over even the slightest mention of anything negative, you got most of your flack for enjoying the failures of this (2-0) team.

I have seen alot of heated discussions on this board. Usually it is just a couple members dragging things out. But this week has been a massive collection of bickering.

Basically, those who are reacting to your behavior are on an increased defensive toward anyone with a negative thought, as if they support your gloating, not just the opinion.

And that has caused alot more bickering than we, as a (2-0) team that few expected to break .500 this season, should be seeing right now.

Do you really want Matt Cassel to succeed? Or would you rather see him fail?

:feedback: