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Drunker Hillbilly
12-14-2009, 07:42 PM
Commissioner Goodell lifted the suspension of Chiefs WR Dwayne Bowe. Chiefs have until next Monday to reinstate him. Adam Schefter reporting

matthewschiefs
12-14-2009, 07:58 PM
good news we Need him big time

pbatrucker
12-14-2009, 08:21 PM
I'm really curious to see if he sat around and got lazy or continued to work out, found a machine to throw him balls and worked on those hands.

honda522
12-14-2009, 08:33 PM
Hopefully he comes back to kill.

LOL@SD&OAK&KC
12-14-2009, 08:40 PM
He actually asked for a trade and was denied.

Chiefster
12-14-2009, 08:46 PM
I say let the reinstating begin!

figcrostic
12-14-2009, 09:37 PM
He actually asked for a trade and was denied.

If I were Pioli I would not trade him until the end of the season and that's only if I got a 2nd or higher. Bowe is great but inconsistent right now, I would rather have two good wr's that were consistent then one great one that is inconsistent, or we could trade him for a good tackle.

honda522
12-14-2009, 09:58 PM
He actually asked for a trade and was denied.

If that was true, which it wasn't....he would be more mature about it than Cry Baby Cutler....I think its funny how Denver employees cry babies...Did you guys know that?

Ryfo18
12-15-2009, 12:37 AM
If I were Pioli I would not trade him until the end of the season and that's only if I got a 2nd or higher. Bowe is great but inconsistent right now, I would rather have two good wr's that were consistent then one great one that is inconsistent, or we could trade him for a good tackle.

I would completely disagree with trading Bowe for a 2nd. You say you would rather have 2 consistent WRs, but you're not going to find 2 consistent WR's in the offseason. And I question, who do you consider consistent in the NFL at WR? Wayne? Fitzgerald? Consistency at WR is rare.

This is only Bowe's third season and he has 189 cathces in 3 seasons (mind you this season has been injury riddled and then his lastest suspension).

I just think back to when Herm and Peterson were here...We saw great talent get traded away from this team for what, some draft picks? Draft picks are a huge gamble. Look at how some of our top draft picks have panned out in recent years.

Regardless, Bowe has the talent to be one of the league's premier WR's. A team that is so strapped for WR's should not give him away for draft picks.

Coach
12-15-2009, 12:50 AM
I would completely disagree with trading Bowe for a 2nd. You say you would rather have 2 consistent WRs, but you're not going to find 2 consistent WR's in the offseason. And I question, who do you consider consistent in the NFL at WR? Wayne? Fitzgerald? Consistency at WR is rare.

This is only Bowe's third season and he has 189 cathces in 3 seasons (mind you this season has been injury riddled and then his lastest suspension).

I just think back to when Herm and Peterson were here...We saw great talent get traded away from this team for what, some draft picks? Draft picks are a huge gamble. Look at how some of our top draft picks have panned out in recent years.

Regardless, Bowe has the talent to be one of the league's premier WR's. A team that is so strapped for WR's should not give him away for draft picks.

I agree. Even if the Chiefs got a 1st round pick for him, it isn't like we've been hitting home runs with those picks. He's the best WR we have. We need more talent at WR, not less.

Stumplifter
12-15-2009, 12:54 AM
Hopefully he comes back with an attitude of having something to prove to everyone.
I like Bowe, and I think the WR corp of Bowe, Chambers, Wade, Bradley, and Long is a pretty damn good group. And I know that a lot of people don't really care for Pope, but I think he does a very good job of doing what he's asked to do. Plus, when he gets the ball it's great to watch him....he runs and hits like he's a po'd fullback. Good stuff.

PawnshopMarimba
12-15-2009, 03:24 AM
Just to play Devil's advocate: 2010's's draft looks to be pretty strong at the WR position.

Not that I would trade Bowe or use the first round draft pick on anything but an OL. Just putting it out there. Management doesn't always see things the way we do.

Hayvern
12-15-2009, 04:08 AM
If I were Pioli I would not trade him until the end of the season and that's only if I got a 2nd or higher. Bowe is great but inconsistent right now, I would rather have two good wr's that were consistent then one great one that is inconsistent, or we could trade him for a good tackle.

This really makes no sense. If you think he is inconsistent, and if you are right, then I guarantee you that every other owner sees what you and I see. What makes you think he is even worth what you want to get for him?

You think teams are out there just throwing away draft picks on players? There has to be something in it for them.

I am not saying you are wrong, but I see so many people talking about trading this guy for picks, or trading that guy for picks. Honestly, I would rather stick with a guy and work with him, especially one that has shown he has talent, rather than bringing in brand new guys every year.

This revolving door of players needs to stop!

Chiefster
12-15-2009, 04:50 AM
This really makes no sense. If you think he is inconsistent, and if you are right, then I guarantee you that every other owner sees what you and I see. What makes you think he is even worth what you want to get for him?

You think teams are out there just throwing away draft picks on players? There has to be something in it for them.

I am not saying you are wrong, but I see so many people talking about trading this guy for picks, or trading that guy for picks. Honestly, I would rather stick with a guy and work with him, especially one that has shown he has talent, rather than bringing in brand new guys every year.

This revolving door of players needs to stop!

This is an excellent point, and I couldn't agree more!

figcrostic
12-15-2009, 08:43 AM
I would completely disagree with trading Bowe for a 2nd. You say you would rather have 2 consistent WRs, but you're not going to find 2 consistent WR's in the offseason. And I question, who do you consider consistent in the NFL at WR? Wayne? Fitzgerald? Consistency at WR is rare.

This is only Bowe's third season and he has 189 cathces in 3 seasons (mind you this season has been injury riddled and then his lastest suspension).

I just think back to when Herm and Peterson were here...We saw great talent get traded away from this team for what, some draft picks? Draft picks are a huge gamble. Look at how some of our top draft picks have panned out in recent years.

Regardless, Bowe has the talent to be one of the league's premier WR's. A team that is so strapped for WR's should not give him away for draft picks.

I was just commenting on another post saying he asked for a trade, I wouldn't trade him but if that were the situation that's what I want. Bowe has a ton of dropped passes and has for years that's why I say he is inconsistent, and it would be nice to have two good wr's then one great Bowe, but it's very difficult to get that so I would probably just keep him.

figcrostic
12-15-2009, 08:45 AM
This really makes no sense. If you think he is inconsistent, and if you are right, then I guarantee you that every other owner sees what you and I see. What makes you think he is even worth what you want to get for him?

You think teams are out there just throwing away draft picks on players? There has to be something in it for them.

I am not saying you are wrong, but I see so many people talking about trading this guy for picks, or trading that guy for picks. Honestly, I would rather stick with a guy and work with him, especially one that has shown he has talent, rather than bringing in brand new guys every year.

This revolving door of players needs to stop!

Always being in the top 3 in dropped passes is inconsistent.

chief31
12-15-2009, 10:06 AM
Always being in the top 3 in dropped passes is inconsistent.

A.) I can't find a site that displays those stats in a sortable way.

B.) I will agree that he has been poor about dropping passes for, at least this and last season.

C.) He is a very young player. Sporadic performances are not uncommon with younger players. And it, by no means, is something that cannot be fixed.

He shows enough promise to give him some time, and coaching attention, to get that part of his game to improve.

Terrell Owens gets alot of criticism for dropping passes. But few actually doubt that he is not worth having on the field, for that alone. (Other factors make people believe that he isn't worth having. But the dropped passes alone are generally not.)

Keep him around, and work with him, to get that problem solved. IMO

yashi
12-15-2009, 10:14 AM
Naturally if you're among the leaders in targets, you're also going to be among the leaders in drops. That stat is really overrated IMO.

pbatrucker
12-15-2009, 10:31 AM
The fact that other teams respect him enough to double cover him and leave Chambers and other recievers in single coverage is worth having him on the field.

honda522
12-15-2009, 11:56 AM
The fact that other teams respect him enough to double cover him and leave Chambers and other recievers in single coverage is worth having him on the field.
This. :bananen_smilies046:

figcrostic
12-15-2009, 12:20 PM
The fact that other teams respect him enough to double cover him and leave Chambers and other recievers in single coverage is worth having him on the field.

Yes that's why I said I would keep him, but I also would not be mordified if we got a great trade for him.

pbatrucker
12-15-2009, 12:57 PM
Yes that's why I said I would keep him, but I also would not be mordified if we got a great trade for him.
Rarely when trading a #1 draft choice do you get what you have invested in him. IMO Bowe understands that if he stops dropping passes he will be in line for a huge contract after next year. IMO he'll get to know a certain machine up close and personal this off season and catch passes til his hands are raw.

figcrostic
12-15-2009, 03:56 PM
Rarely when trading a #1 draft choice do you get what you have invested in him. IMO Bowe understands that if he stops dropping passes he will be in line for a huge contract after next year. IMO he'll get to know a certain machine up close and personal this off season and catch passes til his hands are raw.

Honestly right now there is nobody on this team, that would hurt me to get traded like TG, I know if their will be another player as special as him.

KottkeKU
12-15-2009, 04:36 PM
i never liked the TG trade, he was our entire team...

but trading Bowe would also be a mistake... OP, you keep saying you would rather have 2 reliable good WRs rather than 1 great bowe.... wel we dont even have ONE decent WR.... Wade? HA.... Chambers? He isnt aything special, and proved it last weekend vs. BUF.... Long cant catch tough passes either, and thats really all we have...

Bowe is better than all of them, what we need to do is draft a tall speedy WR that can stretch the field (Briscoe)...Bowe cant be the only weapon in the passing game, he has to have help...

Hayvern
12-15-2009, 04:47 PM
A.) I can't find a site that displays those stats in a sortable way.

B.) I will agree that he has been poor about dropping passes for, at least this and last season.

C.) He is a very young player. Sporadic performances are not uncommon with younger players. And it, by no means, is something that cannot be fixed.

He shows enough promise to give him some time, and coaching attention, to get that part of his game to improve.

Terrell Owens gets alot of criticism for dropping passes. But few actually doubt that he is not worth having on the field, for that alone. (Other factors make people believe that he isn't worth having. But the dropped passes alone are generally not.)

Keep him around, and work with him, to get that problem solved. IMO


Allow me.

These are last years stats, since this year really does not matter considering how few game Bowe has played in.

in 2008, Bowe was third in targeted passes with 157, behind Brandon Marshall and Andre Johnson who had 181 and 170 respectively.

The Former Chiefs Player Who Shall Remain Nameless came in fourth with 155.

IN dropped passes, Bowe was second with 13, behind Braylon Edwards who had 16 and ahead of Brandon Marshall who had 12.

So if this stat is to mean anything, then you have to consider the number of times he was targeted against the number of passes dropped. Which would give you a percentage.

Take Brandon Marshall for instance, I don't think anyone can deny he is an awesome receiver, his pass drop rating is .06%, Bowe is .08%, not bad really.

One other related stat, that I think is important when considering Bowe's abilities. That stat is the passes caught rating.

Bowe haad 86 passes caught at 157 targets, Gonzales had 96 caught out of 155 targets and Brandon Marshall had 104 caught out of 181 targets.

Here is how that stacks up.

Bowe 54% catch rating
Gonzales 61% catch rating
Marshall 57% catch rating

I think those numbers show that Bowe really is a premier receiver and if he continues to get better, he will be mentioned in the same breath with some of the greats.

Oh and when you consider targets, you also have to consider our QB situation last season. The fact that Marshall only 3% better than Bowe with a Pro-bowl QB throwing at him last year (Cutler) speaks volumes about what he and The former Chiefs player were able to do last season.

figcrostic
12-15-2009, 07:06 PM
i never liked the TG trade, he was our entire team...

but trading Bowe would also be a mistake... OP, you keep saying you would rather have 2 reliable good WRs rather than 1 great bowe.... wel we dont even have ONE decent WR.... Wade? HA.... Chambers? He isnt aything special, and proved it last weekend vs. BUF.... Long cant catch tough passes either, and thats really all we have...

Bowe is better than all of them, what we need to do is draft a tall speedy WR that can stretch the field (Briscoe)...Bowe cant be the only weapon in the passing game, he has to have help...

I am with you on the tall WR, I wanted Kenny Britt and he is killing it, but everything else you said is crap. Chambers is a good WR and has been pretty consistent, he missed one catch, it was a big one but it was a tough grab. I would rather have two chambers then one Bowe, any day even though Bowe has more of an upside, I would honestly say Chambers has better hands and better separation skills. Bowe is a better athlete though, he is big and he is hard to tackle, Chambers is not really hard to tackle but he catches the ball almost every time it touches him. It's insane, how soon people forget, Chambers has been a savior too us, he misses on catch and now he sucks come on man if we didn't have him we would have nothing right now, he was a huge asset in us beating the steelers, and he is not a really expensive player.

Drunker Hillbilly
12-15-2009, 11:18 PM
Allow me.

These are last years stats, since this year really does not matter considering how few game Bowe has played in.

in 2008, Bowe was third in targeted passes with 157, behind Brandon Marshall and Andre Johnson who had 181 and 170 respectively.

The Former Chiefs Player Who Shall Remain Nameless came in fourth with 155.

IN dropped passes, Bowe was second with 13, behind Braylon Edwards who had 16 and ahead of Brandon Marshall who had 12.

So if this stat is to mean anything, then you have to consider the number of times he was targeted against the number of passes dropped. Which would give you a percentage.

Take Brandon Marshall for instance, I don't think anyone can deny he is an awesome receiver, his pass drop rating is .06%, Bowe is .08%, not bad really.

One other related stat, that I think is important when considering Bowe's abilities. That stat is the passes caught rating.

Bowe haad 86 passes caught at 157 targets, Gonzales had 96 caught out of 155 targets and Brandon Marshall had 104 caught out of 181 targets.

Here is how that stacks up.

Bowe 54% catch rating
Gonzales 61% catch rating
Marshall 57% catch rating

I think those numbers show that Bowe really is a premier receiver and if he continues to get better, he will be mentioned in the same breath with some of the greats.

Oh and when you consider targets, you also have to consider our QB situation last season. The fact that Marshall only 3% better than Bowe with a Pro-bowl QB throwing at him last year (Cutler) speaks volumes about what he and The former Chiefs player were able to do last season.
The eye test and the effectiveness of what he does on the field to help the team win are way more important to me than those statistics. He may have passed my test but by a very slim margin with a C-. Very avg IMO.

Hayvern
12-16-2009, 11:47 PM
There is nothing better than shutting up a stupid argument than posting statistics!

Our job here is done, rat man, let's go home!

http://www.impactlab.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Ratman-684.jpg