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Bike
12-20-2009, 11:36 PM
1. Fires all his offensive coaches - no replacements. This is a major failure for a young team.

2. Hires a DC whose defenses have been ranked near the bottom of the league the past 6 years. This is a major failure for a young team.

3. Failed to address our biggest weakness when he got here - our very offensive line.

4. Game planning/play calling. The laughing stock of the league.

Haley is a failure. Flat out. I'm not willing to give this guy 3 more years to prove himself just to watch this team continually lose. It is painfully obvios to me that he is not a NFL head coach. Pioli made a mistake. He needs to fix it this off-season.

AussieChiefsFan
12-20-2009, 11:38 PM
Maybe, maybe not.

Coach
12-20-2009, 11:40 PM
I'm not ready to go there yet. I'm not a huge fan of Haley's demeanor so far, but I think he deserves a chance unless Cowher wants to come here.

We need a new OC and DC. Period. I am very excited about the prospects of Cassell, Bowe, Chambers, Jamaal Charles.
Our defense is just god awful in every way. Todd, Hire a new DC before it costs you your job.

Vandelay
12-20-2009, 11:45 PM
I've been a Haley supporter so far, but after today, I don't know. That was pathetic.
If he stays, he better be hiring getting a new DC, OC, and WR coach.

honda522
12-20-2009, 11:45 PM
Oh god, another one of these threads? Talking about the offensive preformance today is a cheap shot. Matt Cassel: 331 Yds, 2 TD's, No turn overs.
JC: 154 Yards Touchdown. No fumbles.

This was purley a fail in defensive effort. And I will have to agree that what has been said about Pendergast being one of the only choices.

Vandelay
12-20-2009, 11:46 PM
I've been a Haley supporter so far, but after today, I don't know. That was pathetic.
If he stays, he better be hiring getting a new DC, OC, and WR coach.
Oh, and also special teams coach.

AussieChiefsFan
12-20-2009, 11:46 PM
Oh god, another one of these threads? Talking about the offensive preformance today is a cheap shot. Matt Cassel: 331 Yds, 2 TD's, No turn overs.
JC: 154 Yards Touchdown. No fumbles.

This was purley a fail in defensive effort. And I will have to agree that what has been said about Pendergast being one of the only choices.

Hard to believe we lost!





Until you look at our defensive stats....

Bike
12-20-2009, 11:46 PM
Oh god, another one of these threads? Talking about the offensive preformance today is a cheap shot. Matt Cassel: 331 Yds, 2 TD's, No turn overs.
JC: 154 Yards Touchdown. No fumbles.

This was purley a fail in defensive effort. And I will have to agree that what has been said about Pendergast being one of the only choices.
Its a loss at home - vs cleveland.

AussieChiefsFan
12-20-2009, 11:46 PM
Oh, and also special teams coach.

Ryan Succop and DC are great.

AussieChiefsFan
12-20-2009, 11:47 PM
Its a loss at home - vs cleveland.

hmmmmmmmmm, sounds pretty bad when you just come out and say it...........

honda522
12-20-2009, 11:48 PM
Hell, even the passing d wasn't too bad. 2 picks, 1 by Carr who is turning out to be pretty decent and Flowers who is the best ever.

AussieChiefsFan
12-20-2009, 11:49 PM
Hell, even the passing d wasn't too bad. 2 picks, 1 by Carr who is turning out to be pretty decent and Flowers who is the best ever.

Yeah flowers is gonna be a great Cornerback in the future if not already but we let them run straight through us every time.

honda522
12-20-2009, 11:51 PM
Its a loss at home - vs cleveland.
Sure, lets go ahead and Blame the coach. cause coaches get blamed for loses and QB's take credit for the wins.

Chiefster
12-20-2009, 11:52 PM
Just let me say that I believe that Haley will go...straight to the bank.

Bike
12-20-2009, 11:52 PM
I'n not complaining about the 7 or 8 above average players that we might have on this roster. I'm complaining about this teams management.

Bike
12-20-2009, 11:54 PM
Sure, lets go ahead and Blame the coach. cause coaches get blamed for loses and QB's take credit for the wins.
Thats exactly what I'm doing.

AussieChiefsFan
12-20-2009, 11:55 PM
Thats exactly what I'm doing.

:lol:

hometeam
12-20-2009, 11:56 PM
why not blame the coach? Whos fault is it? I bet if you ask Haley he will put the blame on himself. Dont be so defensive of Haley, he just hasnt done anything to be happy with. Why let him stick around and fail for a few more years? Teams hire new coaches and turn the teams around in ONE YEARS TIME all the time! happens every season! why cant we be that team!

honda522
12-20-2009, 11:58 PM
Thats exactly what I'm doing.
Well obviously, and its a little ridiculous IMO. Defense lost the game today and your taking shots about the way the offense is being ran even though they had their best performance of the year so far.

Bike
12-21-2009, 12:00 AM
Well obviously, and its a little ridiculous IMO. Defense lost the game today and your taking shots about the way the offense is being ran even though they had their best performance of the year so far.
We all have our different opinions. If we all had the same opinions this would be a pretty boring place to be!

Bike
12-21-2009, 12:01 AM
why not blame the coach? Whos fault is it? I bet if you ask Haley he will put the blame on himself. Dont be so defensive of Haley, he just hasnt done anything to be happy with. Why let him stick around and fail for a few more years? Teams hire new coaches and turn the teams around in ONE YEARS TIME all the time! happens every season! why cant we be that team!
Thats where I'm at bro. Rep.

honda522
12-21-2009, 12:02 AM
why not blame the coach? Whos fault is it? I bet if you ask Haley he will put the blame on himself. Dont be so defensive of Haley, he just hasnt done anything to be happy with. Why let him stick around and fail for a few more years? Teams hire new coaches and turn the teams around in ONE YEARS TIME all the time! happens every season! why cant we be that team!
In theory, this season is more successful than last. I wouldn't call the wins good at all, but there is improvment.

kcnation
12-21-2009, 12:05 AM
haley has made some questionable decisions this year but it is his 1st year as head coach.i know he is a better coach than what he is showing but he has to hire the right help so he dosen't have all the pressure of running every aspect of the game.our front 7 is pitiful,rushing defense is horrible and we need to shore it up.lets face it,the players we thought were stoppers are not,time to let them go and get some studs on that line.....i believe we will progress in the off season so lets give him a chance

Bike
12-21-2009, 12:14 AM
haley has made some questionable decisions this year but it is his 1st year as head coach.i know he is a better coach than what he is showing but he has to hire the right help so he dosen't have all the pressure of running every aspect of the game.our front 7 is pitiful,rushing defense is horrible and we need to shore it up.lets face it,the players we thought were stoppers are not,time to let them go and get some studs on that line.....i believe we will progress in the off season so lets give him a chance
That is indeed a major part of his job. He didn't do it.

josh1971
12-21-2009, 12:31 AM
That is indeed a major part of his job. He didn't do it.

But he alone is not responsible for the hiring of these people. Scott Pioli has a hand in it as well.

drstandley31
12-21-2009, 12:34 AM
I'm not ready to go there yet. I'm not a huge fan of Haley's demeanor so far, but I think he deserves a chance unless Cowher wants to come here.

We need a new OC and DC. Period. I am very excited about the prospects of Cassell, Bowe, Chambers, Jamaal Charles.
Our defense is just god awful in every way. Todd, Hire a new DC before it costs you your job.
I think I'm onboard with what you said. It's tough, because you want to rip Haley's head off, but I still think there might be something there. But there needs to be a change at OC & DC real damn quick. Reminds me of the F'n Greg Robinson days.

josh1971
12-21-2009, 12:40 AM
What gets me is all the predictable, pathetic answers to all the questions when watching the postgame stuff

"We need to be more physical"

"We have to tackle better"


No shyit? I though you were supposed to be ordering pizzas!



Which is what some of them should be delivering, as of tomorrow morning.

SIC J
12-21-2009, 02:14 AM
What gets me is all the predictable, pathetic answers to all the questions when watching the postgame stuff

"We need to be more physical"

"We have to tackle better"


No shyit? I though you were supposed to be ordering pizzas!



Which is what some of them should be delivering, as of tomorrow morning.

Football for the most part is pretty self explanatory......

The offense did great today, put up some good numbers.

The defensive line was flat out PATHETIC. To give up 350 yards rushing, there's no excuse for that. The secondary did a damn good job by only allowing 60 something yards passing but they needed to step up cuz the line SUCKED!

To give up not 1 but 2 kickoff returns is sad as well.


MOST of you have sit here and complain about the offense this and the offense that. Well today the OFFENSE stepped up and put up some good numbers. So give credit where credit is due, at least for this game.

To be honest, I bet if this team was undefeated, many of you would still have something to complain about. Cuz thats all you're good at. The Chiefs are 3-11 and you're still on here crying day in and day out. ARE YOU JUST NOW REALIZING THAT THIS TEAM SUCKS? This season was over 6 weeks ago. The season is a wash and lets just look forward to next year. After next year if this team doesn't turn around, then you can throw your tantrums again.

Until then, give it a rest and let it go already.

kilobytes
12-21-2009, 02:34 AM
I think the offensive play calling was terrible half the time. Charles is all talent and had holes to run through for once and Cassel was very unlucky. The WRs were a joke except Chambers. I will wait to judge Haley officially until after next year when we actually have a FRIKIN OC!!! That will help tremendously.

Bowe was good the past two years and now he is a joke. It makes no sense especially with a WR coach like Haley in there. He is too hard on players and thats why they get scared to drop it and they drop it. That doesn't happen under Herm. Herm was too laid back himself although I don't see him as bad as most people here seem to think hes bad but most of that is biased hate. Herm actually left talent to build and the Pioli/Haley administration has done next to nothing to help.This team is worse than last year period. The record says otherwise but how many close games did we have last year? I hope they turn it around next year.

I have liked and hated Haley at times but overall I don't like what he has done so far.

And no the record l

Hayvern
12-21-2009, 02:36 AM
In theory, this season is more successful than last. I wouldn't call the wins good at all, but there is improvment.

Sorry Honda, one win more than last season does not mean forward progress. We got lucky against the Steelers and barely beat two other horrible teams. We have been so beat up on points this season and there have been plenty of threads that show just how much we have gone backwards from last year.

Seriously, this season was no improvement. Look at how many games we were not even close in this season. Last year there was like 8 games where we were within a touchdown of winning, how about this year? 2. Yeah we inked out 3 wins this season, but when we lost, we lost by big margins.

Right now, this team would probably lose to the Kansas Jay Hawks.

Hayvern
12-21-2009, 02:39 AM
haley has made some questionable decisions this year but it is his 1st year as head coach.i know he is a better coach than what he is showing but he has to hire the right help so he dosen't have all the pressure of running every aspect of the game.our front 7 is pitiful,rushing defense is horrible and we need to shore it up.lets face it,the players we thought were stoppers are not,time to let them go and get some studs on that line.....i believe we will progress in the off season so lets give him a chance

Really? How do you know he is a better coach? Has he shown anywhere that he knows how to be a head coach?

He did alright as an OC for Arizona with a team that was pretty much put together for him when he got there. Now he has to build a program and a team, where has he ever shown that he knows how to do that?

NEVER. PLUS, what he DOES know has been one of our shining failures. He knows receivers and we have had nothing but a revolving door of pass-droppers all season long.

Additionally, it seems the only thing he knows how to do when hr gets in trouble is start passing the ball. He did the same thing in Arizona. Other teams know this and they are killing us. Haley is a one trick pony.

SIC J
12-21-2009, 02:46 AM
Really? How do you know he is a better coach? Has he shown anywhere that he knows how to be a head coach?

He did alright as an OC for Arizona with a team that was pretty much put together for him when he got there. Now he has to build a program and a team, where has he ever shown that he knows how to do that?

NEVER. PLUS, what he DOES know has been one of our shining failures. He knows receivers and we have had nothing but a revolving door of pass-droppers all season long.

Additionally, it seems the only thing he knows how to do when hr gets in trouble is start passing the ball. He did the same thing in Arizona. Other teams know this and they are killing us. Haley is a one trick pony.

And where has he shown he is a bad head coach? He was brought to KC that was probably the WORST team in the NFL last year. He was told to rebuild a HORRIBLE team in one off-season.

If he doesn't make the necessary changes and doesn't turn this team around next season, I'm sure his job will be on the line. Until then, he isn't going anywhere. I'm sure Pioli feels the same way.

Hayvern
12-21-2009, 02:54 AM
And where has he shown he is a bad head coach? He was brought to KC that was probably the WORST team in the NFL last year. He was told to rebuild a HORRIBLE team in one off-season.

If he doesn't make the necessary changes and doesn't turn this team around next season, I'm sure his job will be on the line. Until then, he isn't going anywhere. I'm sure Pioli feels the same way.

He has actually shown he is a bad head coach every week he has been at KC so far.

There are times when you see a guy that you know is a good coach, you have seen him do great things and make great moves. Then, you have a guy like we have who has done NOTHING right this season.

I have said it before, and I will say it until I am blue in the face. You DO NOT let a rookie head coach take over on a team full of rookies. This is NOT the guy you want rebuilding a team. He would be a great headcoach for Pittsburgh, San Diego, or even Denver, Dallas, or a team that has most of the pieces in place.

We don't have most of the pieces in place and now we have to wait while he gets on the job training on how to build a team. At that rate, in about five years, we will be where we need to be.

pbatrucker
12-21-2009, 04:22 PM
WOW!!!
Haley hired these bad coaches.
With the late date Haley was hired, I don't think he could walk into the front door and order steak. It was more that he went to the back door and got stale bread.
Other coaches have turned teams around in one year.
True, but they had more horses in their stable than nags. Haley can only use the players Pioli gives him.
This DL sucks.
No it hasn't been great, but without Dorsey, Cleveland took advantage. A huge chuck of the rushing yards we give up is due to bad LB's.
Haley's play calling sucks 1/2 the time, he should have run the ball more through those holes.
With 2 starters out of an already bad OL, I thought they did well. The only hole I saw was on JC's 47 yd run, the rest was JC running through creases. Besides the offense just put up 491 yds total offense and you're still complaining.
Now I don't like everything the new regime is doing, but if you're going to force your opinions on us, at least base them on logical facts instead of drunken gibberish

SIC J
12-21-2009, 04:48 PM
WOW!!!
Haley hired these bad coaches.
With the late date Haley was hired, I don't think he could walk into the front door and order steak. It was more that he went to the back door and got stale bread.
Other coaches have turned teams around in one year.
True, but they had more horses in their stable than nags. Haley can only use the players Pioli gives him.
This DL sucks.
No it hasn't been great, but without Dorsey, Cleveland took advantage. A huge chuck of the rushing yards we give up is due to bad LB's.
Haley's play calling sucks 1/2 the time, he should have run the ball more through those holes.
With 2 starters out of an already bad OL, I thought they did well. The only hole I saw was on JC's 47 yd run, the rest was JC running through creases. Besides the offense just put up 491 yds total offense and you're still complaining.
Now I don't like everything the new regime is doing, but if you're going to force your opinions on us, at least base them on logical facts instead of drunken gibberish

At least one person on here has common sense and is realistic like me. haha

Bike
12-21-2009, 05:09 PM
WOW!!!
Haley hired these bad coaches.
With the late date Haley was hired, I don't think he could walk into the front door and order steak. It was more that he went to the back door and got stale bread.
Other coaches have turned teams around in one year.
True, but they had more horses in their stable than nags. Haley can only use the players Pioli gives him.
This DL sucks.
No it hasn't been great, but without Dorsey, Cleveland took advantage. A huge chuck of the rushing yards we give up is due to bad LB's.
Haley's play calling sucks 1/2 the time, he should have run the ball more through those holes.
With 2 starters out of an already bad OL, I thought they did well. The only hole I saw was on JC's 47 yd run, the rest was JC running through creases. Besides the offense just put up 491 yds total offense and you're still complaining.
Now I don't like everything the new regime is doing, but if you're going to force your opinions on us, at least base them on logical facts instead of drunken gibberish
Really. How does someone force their opinion on anybody? You read it then either agree or disagree. And I guess if someone has a differing opinion than yourself, its drunken gibberish? You seem to have a high opinion - of yourself.
That being said, allow me to illustrate my point so that even you might understand. My opinion of Haley is not based on "facts". Its simply the way I see the situation. And it probably won't change no matter how many :drunkhb: I might slam down.

Chieffaninfl
12-21-2009, 05:21 PM
It was an EMBARRASSING loos to the Brownies on our Field. Im willing to give Haley a shot but get Clancy outta here!!!

Three7s
12-21-2009, 05:22 PM
I agree with PBA on this. He had absolutely no time to hire anyone. Is it his fault for not wanting Gailey as the OC? Maybe, but he just didn't want to run the type of offense that Gailey runs. As for DC, there's a reason he waited weeks before actually naming Pendergast as DC. It was because they were trying to get someone, ANYONE better than Pendergast, but it was so late that it was impossible.

Now, yes, Haley has been awful at times with playcalling, he has made some silly rookie HC mistakes, and his clock-management has been left with much to desire, but luckily, I think those things can improve with experience. I say that if he fires Pendergast and hires an OC and DC, then I stick with him for another year.

Bike
12-21-2009, 05:49 PM
I agree with PBA on this. He had absolutely no time to hire anyone. Is it his fault for not wanting Gailey as the OC? Maybe, but he just didn't want to run the type of offense that Gailey runs. As for DC, there's a reason he waited weeks before actually naming Pendergast as DC. It was because they were trying to get someone, ANYONE better than Pendergast, but it was so late that it was impossible.

Now, yes, Haley has been awful at times with playcalling, he has made some silly rookie HC mistakes, and his clock-management has been left with much to desire, but luckily, I think those things can improve with experience. I say that if he fires Pendergast and hires an OC and DC, then I stick with him for another year.
I'm tired of excuses for mediocrity. I'm tired of losing. Either you can do the job or you can't. I don't see ANY signs that Haley can do this job.

Three7s
12-21-2009, 06:17 PM
I'm tired of excuses for mediocrity. I'm tired of losing. Either you can do the job or you can't. I don't see ANY signs that Haley can do this job.
And on that note, if a Cowher or someone of that caliber were to show up, then I'd take that route instantly, since I'm about as impatient as most everyone else! I just want to give him at least somewhat of a chance as long as he makes the moves that common sense would say to make.

figcrostic
12-21-2009, 07:44 PM
Oh god, another one of these threads? Talking about the offensive preformance today is a cheap shot. Matt Cassel: 331 Yds, 2 TD's, No turn overs.
JC: 154 Yards Touchdown. No fumbles.

This was purley a fail in defensive effort. And I will have to agree that what has been said about Pendergast being one of the only choices.

Exactly our offense is pretty good, we need to fix our line but the defensive line was way worse then the offensive line at stopping the run, and special teams was just ridiculously bad.

Bike
12-21-2009, 07:51 PM
And on that note, if a Cowher or someone of that caliber were to show up, then I'd take that route instantly, since I'm about as impatient as most everyone else! I just want to give him at least somewhat of a chance as long as he makes the moves that common sense would say to make.
I'll go there. I'm just one frustrated and PO'ed Chiefs fan.

texaschief
12-21-2009, 08:21 PM
Deciding whether or not to keep a head coach isn't determined solely on if he was able to accomplish a 180 degree turnaround. But there should at least be SOME improvement throughout the season. I saw some improvement on the defensive side of the ball at the beginning of the season. However, as the season has progressed, its become horrible. The offense has maintaned a level of inneptitude that surely wasn't expected after the end of 2008.

That has to beg the question, if the team has regressed or shown no improvement in ANY facet of the game, why keep the person responsible?

I hate the idea of changing coaches more than anything because it sets your franchise back each time you do. But Todd Haley has done absolutely nothing to prove that he's capable of leading a team or improving a team. Last year, the team showed MUCH more improvement throughout the year than this team has and the head coach still lost his job. I just can't understand ANY argument for Haley to keep his job if you held him to the same standards as the last coach.

Giving him "more time" just isn't something that interests me in the least. I took a double take after the Pittsburgh win, but this team has just been disasterous all season and shown no signs of progress since the Pittsburgh win.

Put it this way, if Todd Haley were to hold himself to the same standards that he holds his players, he would've long since been cut.... Or starting. Lol

hometeam
12-21-2009, 08:25 PM
Put it this way, if Todd Haley were to hold himself to the same standards that he holds his players, he would've long since been cut


perfect analogy.

KottkeKU
12-21-2009, 08:55 PM
i still think nobody in the chiefs front office will admit the fact that this season was only to be used as an experiment of sorts to get they players used to the system, and Haley's feet wet of being an NFL coach.

Next year should look a whole lot different. We are seriously hurting for a DL coach, and a D Coord as well. Offensively, this team has made HUGE strides since week one... if only the WRs would catch the ball...

couldnt agree more the players are trying not to make mistakes instead of just going out and playing.

I will be the first to ask for Haley's head if we are still horrible next season, but i have said it before. I wont judge anyone off this season alone, especially Haley. I admit its easy to look at him and say how can he stay again for next season, but most fans arent realistic. they want to win now, and with the team he was left with im afraid thats just not possible...

tornadospotter
12-23-2009, 02:04 AM
This team will not get better until the Head Coach start actually being a Head Coach! Then maybe we will get better. This is the N freaking FL, FILL THE DAM COACHING STAFF OPENINGS HAILEY!!!!!!!! Then replace the incompetent ones or find yourself replaced!!!:11: There is no excuse for a NFL team to not have a full staff, other than a over ****y self center, egoistic Head Coach.
That is my story, and I am sticking to it.

pbatrucker
12-23-2009, 02:15 AM
TS would Andy Ried be an acceptable HC to you?

tornadospotter
12-23-2009, 02:18 AM
TS would Andy Ried be an acceptable HC to you?
Bill Cowher would be acceptable to me.

pbatrucker
12-23-2009, 02:21 AM
I don't think that will happen, but I could be wrong.

Chiefster
12-23-2009, 02:23 AM
Bill Cowher would be acceptable to me.

I would have peed myself in blissful delight like a school girl had we gotten Bill Cowher. :lol:

Isawa_mo
12-23-2009, 02:29 AM
Deciding whether or not to keep a head coach isn't determined solely on if he was able to accomplish a 180 degree turnaround. But there should at least be SOME improvement throughout the season. I saw some improvement on the defensive side of the ball at the beginning of the season. However, as the season has progressed, its become horrible. The offense has maintaned a level of inneptitude that surely wasn't expected after the end of 2008.

That has to beg the question, if the team has regressed or shown no improvement in ANY facet of the game, why keep the person responsible?

I hate the idea of changing coaches more than anything because it sets your franchise back each time you do. But Todd Haley has done absolutely nothing to prove that he's capable of leading a team or improving a team. Last year, the team showed MUCH more improvement throughout the year than this team has and the head coach still lost his job. I just can't understand ANY argument for Haley to keep his job if you held him to the same standards as the last coach.

Giving him "more time" just isn't something that interests me in the least. I took a double take after the Pittsburgh win, but this team has just been disasterous all season and shown no signs of progress since the Pittsburgh win.

Put it this way, if Todd Haley were to hold himself to the same standards that he holds his players, he would've long since been cut.... Or starting. Lol

Herm got 3 years. He had also been a head coach before, so should not have gotten as long of leash as a guy in his first year as a head coach. I am willing to give Haley until this time next year before I start to fully judge his progress.

Ryfo18
12-23-2009, 02:49 AM
To fire a coach after 1 year is ridiculous. It puts a tremendous amount of "extra" work on the players to learn a completely new system during training camp, when this time could be spent bettering the system that is already in place and that everyone is familiar with. It's the exact same thing as any business out there. If you have new management in and out every year trying to change the very fundamental nature of how that business runs, it's never going to be successful.

Calling for Haley's head after 1 disappointing season is ludicrous. First of all, he had very little to choose from for a supporting staff as he was brought in so late. There will be coaching changes, but it will be the supporting staff.

Let's face it, the Chiefs are a horrible team, and have been for the past 3 years. Herm's philosophy of acquiring draft picks to build a team around failed miserably. Trying to make an NFL team competitive with a significant number of rookies is laughable. Rookies very rarely make an impact in the league their first few years. They need a solid veteran core around them to learn from. And that's where we are right now--constantly playing around with the 53-man to get something to work.

There are some bright spots on the Chiefs, a foundation to build around:

--Jamaal Charles has been one of the most consistent producing RBs since being given the #1 duties. He has a talent level comparable to Chris Johnson.

--Matt Cassel does make his share of mistakes, but he is no doubt our answer at QB. He's no Peyton Manning, but he's a game managing QB that has shown he can make plays when they need to be made.

--Our WR corps of Bowe and Chambers gives us in my opinion slightly above average WRs. I know many people have been down on Bowe, but this is no time to give up on him, especially since there aren't a lot of better options out there. He's proven he can play at a top level in the NFL.

--Our cornerback play in Flowers and Carr has been excellent for their amount of experience, and it's only uphill from there.

--Tyson Jackson is showing improvement every game. He will continue to grow and be a significant contributor on the DLine.

--Tamba Hali has by far been impressive in his role in the new 3-4 D, and he will continue to grow next year.

There is a solid foundation now...championship teams, unfortunately, are not made overnight. Heck, they aren't made in 1 year. There are still some gaping holes though that need to be addressed, in the order I think they should be addressed.

--Our safety play is horrendous. Deep balls, long runs...it all falls on the safeties. The Chiefs are in need desperate need of veteran safeties that know what they are doing and are always in the right position. This will do a tremendous amount in improving both Run and Pass D. I wish I had an answer for who can fill these holes though.

--Linebackers - Our LB play this year has not been anything to run home and brag to mom about, as evidenced by the amount of rushing yards given up in recent weeks.

--Oline - many people have this as #1 on the list, but I've been encouraged by their play over the last few games. Cassel has a tendency to hold on to the ball to long, and the extra sacks that causes usually falls on the O-line. They are opening holes for the running game though, and Cassel is getting more time in the pocket.

--RB depth. Charles needs a 230+ banger that can complement him.

I'm encouraged overall, as this is a team that has the skill players to build around. We won't have the flashiest draft class this year, but we will be getting players that will fill huge holes in the "non-skill" positions (OL, LB, S). I just hope that some money is thrown around in the upcoming uncapped season to acquire 2-3 solid veterans that can fill these positions, and not rely entirely on the draft to fill these needs..

Now that I got all that off my chest, I give Todd Haley to 2012 to make us a playoff team. I'm patient...I know that not giving him the time will just put us in the same boat we are in now.

matthewschiefs
12-23-2009, 12:04 PM
To fire a coach after 1 year is ridiculous. It puts a tremendous amount of "extra" work on the players to learn a completely new system during training camp, when this time could be spent bettering the system that is already in place and that everyone is familiar with. It's the exact same thing as any business out there. If you have new management in and out every year trying to change the very fundamental nature of how that business runs, it's never going to be successful.

Calling for Haley's head after 1 disappointing season is ludicrous. First of all, he had very little to choose from for a supporting staff as he was brought in so late. There will be coaching changes, but it will be the supporting staff.

Let's face it, the Chiefs are a horrible team, and have been for the past 3 years. Herm's philosophy of acquiring draft picks to build a team around failed miserably. Trying to make an NFL team competitive with a significant number of rookies is laughable. Rookies very rarely make an impact in the league their first few years. They need a solid veteran core around them to learn from. And that's where we are right now--constantly playing around with the 53-man to get something to work.

There are some bright spots on the Chiefs, a foundation to build around:

--Jamaal Charles has been one of the most consistent producing RBs since being given the #1 duties. He has a talent level comparable to Chris Johnson.

--Matt Cassel does make his share of mistakes, but he is no doubt our answer at QB. He's no Peyton Manning, but he's a game managing QB that has shown he can make plays when they need to be made.

--Our WR corps of Bowe and Chambers gives us in my opinion slightly above average WRs. I know many people have been down on Bowe, but this is no time to give up on him, especially since there aren't a lot of better options out there. He's proven he can play at a top level in the NFL.

--Our cornerback play in Flowers and Carr has been excellent for their amount of experience, and it's only uphill from there.

--Tyson Jackson is showing improvement every game. He will continue to grow and be a significant contributor on the DLine.

--Tamba Hali has by far been impressive in his role in the new 3-4 D, and he will continue to grow next year.

There is a solid foundation now...championship teams, unfortunately, are not made overnight. Heck, they aren't made in 1 year. There are still some gaping holes though that need to be addressed, in the order I think they should be addressed.

--Our safety play is horrendous. Deep balls, long runs...it all falls on the safeties. The Chiefs are in need desperate need of veteran safeties that know what they are doing and are always in the right position. This will do a tremendous amount in improving both Run and Pass D. I wish I had an answer for who can fill these holes though.

--Linebackers - Our LB play this year has not been anything to run home and brag to mom about, as evidenced by the amount of rushing yards given up in recent weeks.

--Oline - many people have this as #1 on the list, but I've been encouraged by their play over the last few games. Cassel has a tendency to hold on to the ball to long, and the extra sacks that causes usually falls on the O-line. They are opening holes for the running game though, and Cassel is getting more time in the pocket.

--RB depth. Charles needs a 230+ banger that can complement him.

I'm encouraged overall, as this is a team that has the skill players to build around. We won't have the flashiest draft class this year, but we will be getting players that will fill huge holes in the "non-skill" positions (OL, LB, S). I just hope that some money is thrown around in the upcoming uncapped season to acquire 2-3 solid veterans that can fill these positions, and not rely entirely on the draft to fill these needs..

Now that I got all that off my chest, I give Todd Haley to 2012 to make us a playoff team. I'm patient...I know that not giving him the time will just put us in the same boat we are in now.


I 100% agree with your post. There are some things that despite how frustarting this team is to watch at times are better from last year. We have far more of a pass rush then we did a season ago when we had a defensive coach just to name one. There are signs of life from this team in areas and thats a good thing.

I honestly think we could sneak into the playoffs next season. Not becuse we will be that good but we have the NFC west. We could have a record that is better then what we realy are and sneak in. Its a longshot but possible. I at least EXPECT to be a much better team then what we are right now. If not and we are sitting at the same spot that we are now then I think it will be time to see if Haley is realy the right choice for the job. I hope that never comes up though. GO CHIEFS!!!!!

pbatrucker
12-23-2009, 01:37 PM
Good post!!!!

OPLookn
12-23-2009, 02:10 PM
Ryfo18 I have to agree with most of your post...great post. My biggest concern is that Haley can't seem to make the correct decisions at crucial points of the game!

Down by 14 to the Broncos and going for it on 4th and 8 on our own 28 yard line but then punting on 4th and 1 when down by 21 or 28 pts. Where is the sense in that?

Can't remember what game it was but we get a MONSTER turnover on the 9 yard line...9 yards to pay dirt and we go for it on 4th and goal from the 1 instead of taking a 99.9% guaranteed 3 points. I understand we were going for momentum but I also remember that at the end of the game we had to throw up a hail mary to try and score a td instead of driving to get a last second field goal to tie and go to OT.

There are numerous other examples of inconsistency and bone headed plays along with mismanagement of the clock. Some of this can be explained away to him trying to do to much but the rest can't. Bad decisions early make for a harder game later and I don't think he see's that. That's my biggest concern.

I'm not ready to toss him out of town right now because as others have said we had few coaches for the OC, DC, etc to choose from by the time he got here. But the decisions he's been making as the head coach concern me the most.

matthewschiefs
12-23-2009, 03:48 PM
Ryfo18 I have to agree with most of your post...great post. My biggest concern is that Haley can't seem to make the correct decisions at crucial points of the game!

Down by 14 to the Broncos and going for it on 4th and 8 on our own 28 yard line but then punting on 4th and 1 when down by 21 or 28 pts. Where is the sense in that?

Can't remember what game it was but we get a MONSTER turnover on the 9 yard line...9 yards to pay dirt and we go for it on 4th and goal from the 1 instead of taking a 99.9% guaranteed 3 points. I understand we were going for momentum but I also remember that at the end of the game we had to throw up a hail mary to try and score a td instead of driving to get a last second field goal to tie and go to OT.

There are numerous other examples of inconsistency and bone headed plays along with mismanagement of the clock. Some of this can be explained away to him trying to do to much but the rest can't. Bad decisions early make for a harder game later and I don't think he see's that. That's my biggest concern.

I'm not ready to toss him out of town right now because as others have said we had few coaches for the OC, DC, etc to choose from by the time he got here. But the decisions he's been making as the head coach concern me the most.


Haley has made some mistakes I dont think that anyone would arguee with that. And hopefuly they are just a guy learing the job of a head coach and by time next seaon gets here they will be gone. Thats what I am hopeing for at least.

And he will have much more time this offseason then he did last to realy get a staff together. Last year they hired him the week after the superbowl and by that time they had to rush to get a staff. THey were behind to begin with. So hopefuly this season is just the last of a TERRIBLE Strech for this team.
GO CHIEFS!!!!!

kcmostwanted
12-23-2009, 04:21 PM
Haley sucks...end of story ... Bad enough that the chiefs suck but having him around isn't helping this team out...

I agree!!! HALEY has to go :-)

Ryfo18
12-23-2009, 04:26 PM
Ryfo18 I have to agree with most of your post...great post. My biggest concern is that Haley can't seem to make the correct decisions at crucial points of the game!

Down by 14 to the Broncos and going for it on 4th and 8 on our own 28 yard line but then punting on 4th and 1 when down by 21 or 28 pts. Where is the sense in that?

Can't remember what game it was but we get a MONSTER turnover on the 9 yard line...9 yards to pay dirt and we go for it on 4th and goal from the 1 instead of taking a 99.9% guaranteed 3 points. I understand we were going for momentum but I also remember that at the end of the game we had to throw up a hail mary to try and score a td instead of driving to get a last second field goal to tie and go to OT.

There are numerous other examples of inconsistency and bone headed plays along with mismanagement of the clock. Some of this can be explained away to him trying to do to much but the rest can't. Bad decisions early make for a harder game later and I don't think he see's that. That's my biggest concern.

I'm not ready to toss him out of town right now because as others have said we had few coaches for the OC, DC, etc to choose from by the time he got here. But the decisions he's been making as the head coach concern me the most.

You're absolutely right, and I have been very disappointed with those decisions as well. If they work out though, then we're not having this conversation. Regardless, I agree with you, get the guaranteed points. I'm chalking this up to Haley himself trying to do too much. If we're in the playoff hunt and he's making decisions like that, then I have a big problem with him. If he's just trying to overcoach a losing team, I can't blame him. He wants to win as bad, if not more, than anyone else.

Once we have the personnel in place to give us leads (first quarter scoring has been horrendous), these decisions are much easier to take the points and run.

lucky_lefty
12-23-2009, 07:10 PM
What's this story I keep hearing on 610 about Haley shooting a fan the bird and Jack Harry or w/e? I only caught brief moments of it at work but couldn't make much of what they were talking about

hometeam
12-23-2009, 07:52 PM
Herm got 3 years. He had also been a head coach before, so should not have gotten as long of leash as a guy in his first year as a head coach. I am willing to give Haley until this time next year before I start to fully judge his progress.


just becuase we screwed up once does not mean we should do so again~

honda522
12-23-2009, 08:39 PM
To fire a coach after 1 year is ridiculous. It puts a tremendous amount of "extra" work on the players to learn a completely new system during training camp, when this time could be spent bettering the system that is already in place and that everyone is familiar with. It's the exact same thing as any business out there. If you have new management in and out every year trying to change the very fundamental nature of how that business runs, it's never going to be successful.

Calling for Haley's head after 1 disappointing season is ludicrous. First of all, he had very little to choose from for a supporting staff as he was brought in so late. There will be coaching changes, but it will be the supporting staff.

Let's face it, the Chiefs are a horrible team, and have been for the past 3 years. Herm's philosophy of acquiring draft picks to build a team around failed miserably. Trying to make an NFL team competitive with a significant number of rookies is laughable. Rookies very rarely make an impact in the league their first few years. They need a solid veteran core around them to learn from. And that's where we are right now--constantly playing around with the 53-man to get something to work.

There are some bright spots on the Chiefs, a foundation to build around:

--Jamaal Charles has been one of the most consistent producing RBs since being given the #1 duties. He has a talent level comparable to Chris Johnson.

--Matt Cassel does make his share of mistakes, but he is no doubt our answer at QB. He's no Peyton Manning, but he's a game managing QB that has shown he can make plays when they need to be made.

--Our WR corps of Bowe and Chambers gives us in my opinion slightly above average WRs. I know many people have been down on Bowe, but this is no time to give up on him, especially since there aren't a lot of better options out there. He's proven he can play at a top level in the NFL.

--Our cornerback play in Flowers and Carr has been excellent for their amount of experience, and it's only uphill from there.

--Tyson Jackson is showing improvement every game. He will continue to grow and be a significant contributor on the DLine.

--Tamba Hali has by far been impressive in his role in the new 3-4 D, and he will continue to grow next year.

There is a solid foundation now...championship teams, unfortunately, are not made overnight. Heck, they aren't made in 1 year. There are still some gaping holes though that need to be addressed, in the order I think they should be addressed.

--Our safety play is horrendous. Deep balls, long runs...it all falls on the safeties. The Chiefs are in need desperate need of veteran safeties that know what they are doing and are always in the right position. This will do a tremendous amount in improving both Run and Pass D. I wish I had an answer for who can fill these holes though.

--Linebackers - Our LB play this year has not been anything to run home and brag to mom about, as evidenced by the amount of rushing yards given up in recent weeks.

--Oline - many people have this as #1 on the list, but I've been encouraged by their play over the last few games. Cassel has a tendency to hold on to the ball to long, and the extra sacks that causes usually falls on the O-line. They are opening holes for the running game though, and Cassel is getting more time in the pocket.

--RB depth. Charles needs a 230+ banger that can complement him.

I'm encouraged overall, as this is a team that has the skill players to build around. We won't have the flashiest draft class this year, but we will be getting players that will fill huge holes in the "non-skill" positions (OL, LB, S). I just hope that some money is thrown around in the upcoming uncapped season to acquire 2-3 solid veterans that can fill these positions, and not rely entirely on the draft to fill these needs..

Now that I got all that off my chest, I give Todd Haley to 2012 to make us a playoff team. I'm patient...I know that not giving him the time will just put us in the same boat we are in now.
Right on man, that was well put.

Rep has been added. This post makes most sense of all the threads on the front page.

kilobytes
12-23-2009, 09:28 PM
Now that I think about it we really aren't hurting as bad as I thought on O line. They sucked badly the first 2/3's of the season but now they seem to be better at pass protection. Those guys seem to be getting the hang of it as they build chemistry. Still need to get a few o linemen in the draft though in case.

hometeam
12-23-2009, 09:45 PM
Now that I think about it we really aren't hurting as bad as I thought on O line. They sucked badly the first 2/3's of the season but now they seem to be better at pass protection. Those guys seem to be getting the hang of it as they build chemistry. Still need to get a few o linemen in the draft though in case.


your pretty right in this statement.

cassel makes the o line look much worse than they are, which, they arent that good to start with, but they arent as bad as say.. green bays~

Ryfo18
12-23-2009, 09:58 PM
your pretty right in this statement.

cassel makes the o line look much worse than they are, which, they arent that good to start with, but they arent as bad as say.. green bays~

Green Bay's line really isn't that bad either. Since the Pack is always on up here in WI, Rodgers has the same problem that plagues Cassel--holding onto the ball too long. Cassel does seem to be getting better about this. He was getting rid of the ball fast vs. the Browns.

#58ChiefsFan
12-23-2009, 11:00 PM
I think in the future you may see young qbs struggle more reading coverage. IMO the way that teams have had to try disguise coverage when playing Peyton has begun a ripple effect across the league.

chief31
12-24-2009, 05:53 AM
To fire a coach after 1 year is ridiculous. It puts a tremendous amount of "extra" work on the players to learn a completely new system during training camp, when this time could be spent bettering the system that is already in place and that everyone is familiar with. It's the exact same thing as any business out there. If you have new management in and out every year trying to change the very fundamental nature of how that business runs, it's never going to be successful.

Calling for Haley's head after 1 disappointing season is ludicrous. First of all, he had very little to choose from for a supporting staff as he was brought in so late. There will be coaching changes, but it will be the supporting staff.

Let's face it, the Chiefs are a horrible team, and have been for the past 3 years. Herm's philosophy of acquiring draft picks to build a team around failed miserably. Trying to make an NFL team competitive with a significant number of rookies is laughable. Rookies very rarely make an impact in the league their first few years. They need a solid veteran core around them to learn from. And that's where we are right now--constantly playing around with the 53-man to get something to work.

There are some bright spots on the Chiefs, a foundation to build around:

--Jamaal Charles has been one of the most consistent producing RBs since being given the #1 duties. He has a talent level comparable to Chris Johnson.

--Matt Cassel does make his share of mistakes, but he is no doubt our answer at QB. He's no Peyton Manning, but he's a game managing QB that has shown he can make plays when they need to be made.

--Our WR corps of Bowe and Chambers gives us in my opinion slightly above average WRs. I know many people have been down on Bowe, but this is no time to give up on him, especially since there aren't a lot of better options out there. He's proven he can play at a top level in the NFL.

--Our cornerback play in Flowers and Carr has been excellent for their amount of experience, and it's only uphill from there.

--Tyson Jackson is showing improvement every game. He will continue to grow and be a significant contributor on the DLine.

--Tamba Hali has by far been impressive in his role in the new 3-4 D, and he will continue to grow next year.

There is a solid foundation now...championship teams, unfortunately, are not made overnight. Heck, they aren't made in 1 year. There are still some gaping holes though that need to be addressed, in the order I think they should be addressed.

--Our safety play is horrendous. Deep balls, long runs...it all falls on the safeties. The Chiefs are in need desperate need of veteran safeties that know what they are doing and are always in the right position. This will do a tremendous amount in improving both Run and Pass D. I wish I had an answer for who can fill these holes though.

--Linebackers - Our LB play this year has not been anything to run home and brag to mom about, as evidenced by the amount of rushing yards given up in recent weeks.

--Oline - many people have this as #1 on the list, but I've been encouraged by their play over the last few games. Cassel has a tendency to hold on to the ball to long, and the extra sacks that causes usually falls on the O-line. They are opening holes for the running game though, and Cassel is getting more time in the pocket.

--RB depth. Charles needs a 230+ banger that can complement him.

I'm encouraged overall, as this is a team that has the skill players to build around. We won't have the flashiest draft class this year, but we will be getting players that will fill huge holes in the "non-skill" positions (OL, LB, S). I just hope that some money is thrown around in the upcoming uncapped season to acquire 2-3 solid veterans that can fill these positions, and not rely entirely on the draft to fill these needs..

Now that I got all that off my chest, I give Todd Haley to 2012 to make us a playoff team. I'm patient...I know that not giving him the time will just put us in the same boat we are in now.

I find it amazing that you can cite Herm's concept as "failed miserably", only to turn right around and cite how he players he brought here are making a "foundation to build around".

While I am FAAAAARRRR from a backer of Herm Edwards, I have litle doubt that this team would have been alot better with him, than Haley, this season.

Unfortunately, I don't think either of them is able to build and maintain a high quality winning football team.

Herm ignored the offensive line for his entire career, and seemed to honestly not want to scorew points with his offense.

And Haley benches/cuts players instead of helping them to improve.

Unless we can get a proven team builder, I don't think it would be wise to remove Todd Haley. But I would be looking for that proven winner like nobody's business.


Now that I think about it we really aren't hurting as bad as I thought on O line. They sucked badly the first 2/3's of the season but now they seem to be better at pass protection. Those guys seem to be getting the hang of it as they build chemistry. Still need to get a few o linemen in the draft though in case.

They have been doing a better job. Not a good job. But a better job.

Bike
12-24-2009, 11:31 AM
I still don't understand how anyone on this board can defend mediocrity. That is unless mediocrity is what you're striving for.

#58ChiefsFan
12-24-2009, 12:23 PM
I think for mediocritys sake it would be different if this was a year or two in the future. This is not the system Haley wants at this point, he has said that this is the first stage of what they are looking to do. I say give them another year minimum before complaining where we are.

Ryfo18
12-24-2009, 12:52 PM
I find it amazing that you can cite Herm's concept as "failed miserably", only to turn right around and cite how he players he brought here are making a "foundation to build around".


I named off 5 of the 27 draft picks that Herm had while we were here as a foundation to build around. I'm saying that 4 years after Herm started as the coach of the Chiefs, this is his legacy and what we have for the future. It was a miserable failure (not to mention Jared Allen being sent away for picks as well). But looking forward, this is what we have to go with, and hopefully we can make the best of it.

Ideally I would be naming of 9-10 of the guys Herm brought here, but if I were doing that I think we would be a much better team.

honda522
12-24-2009, 03:40 PM
I still don't understand how anyone on this board can defend mediocrity. That is unless mediocrity is what you're striving for.
Everyone is mediocre until the prove themselves really. Maybe Haley is not a long term fix, but its a start.

We will see everybody's opinion change after awhile...once things pan out the way that they will.

Would I have liked a proven coach? Sure, but things won't ever go the way we want then to.

Canada
12-24-2009, 05:50 PM
Cowher took 14 years to win a SuperBowl. I dounbt anyone on this board would give any coach that kind of time to build a winner.