PDA

View Full Version : Where's all the Cassel haters?



Canada
12-21-2009, 08:58 PM
I hear you all after he makes a mistake trying to crucify him, how come I dont hear anyone talking about what a good game he had? Hypocrites!!

Bike
12-21-2009, 09:00 PM
I hear you all after he makes a mistake trying to crucify him, how come I dont hear anyone talking about what a good game he had? Hypocrites!!
I've supported Cassel since his arrival. He's done great considering whats around him.

honda522
12-21-2009, 09:02 PM
They have been shut up since the receivers were catching most of them. And he didn't have any picks with Bowe back. Even though Bowe drops, it makes Cassel have a better game.

KottkeKU
12-21-2009, 09:28 PM
I have been an avid Cassel supporter since the begginning... Offense is a thing of chemistry, something this team has NOTHING of right now... especially between QB and WR.... give them some time to get a feel for each other and if our O-line doesnt get him killed... im sure i am beating a dead horse here...

i dont see how you can be so low on Cassel, all he has done since being a Chief is get his face beat in, say the right things, and lead this offense. 90 % of the teams problems are due to the rest of the organization, not Matt C

Miller
12-21-2009, 09:38 PM
He is making 63 million, I would hope that he would have a couple good games

hometeam
12-21-2009, 09:42 PM
at best he is inconsistent, at worst (remember, 2 of the ten lowest QB ratings for games this year) he is a complete waste of space.

My opinion falls somewhere in between that

honda522
12-21-2009, 10:54 PM
at best he is inconsistent, at worst (remember, 2 of the ten lowest QB ratings for games this year) he is a complete waste of space.

My opinion falls somewhere in between that
Cutler had a rating of 7.9

matthewschiefs
12-21-2009, 11:36 PM
Cassel played great he played well enought for the Chiefs to win that game. His recivers let him down and owe him a huge christmas present for that. But Cassle has been solid most the year had a bad streach like any qb but hopefuly hes through that now. GO CHIEFS

figcrostic
12-21-2009, 11:41 PM
I hear you all after he makes a mistake trying to crucify him, how come I dont hear anyone talking about what a good game he had? Hypocrites!!
He finally had a good game, he didn't win but he looked good. Should I hate on him when he plays good? When he plays bad he gets called on it when he plays good I will admit it and give him credit I hope he continues to play well. Lets see some consistency out of him and I will like him, right now, he has had many bad games and 1 1/2 good.

honda522
12-21-2009, 11:51 PM
He finally had a good game, he didn't win but he looked good. Should I hate on him when he plays good? When he plays bad he gets called on it when he plays good I will admit it and give him credit I hope he continues to play well. Lets see some consistency out of him and I will like him, right now, he has had many bad games and 1 1/2 good.
And yet, the fact the receivers are dropping perfectly thrown balls still has no factor in all of this.

hometeam
12-22-2009, 04:48 AM
And yet, the fact the receivers are dropping perfectly thrown balls still has no factor in all of this.


of course it does, but doesnt personal responsibility come in SOMEWHERE?

PawnshopMarimba
12-22-2009, 05:55 AM
Matt has been streaky. Sorry. His critique this year has been well deserved.

His game versus Cleveland was admirable, but he had three TERRIBLE weeks preceding that game.

He rebounded... finally, and I'm very glad for that.
I really want to like Cassel. He seems like a stand up guy with a passion to lead this franchise, and that's good.

But a guy that wants to lead a franchise and a guy that CAN lead a franchise are two different animals.

I'm still on the fence. I can see the potential, but I can also see the man's tendency to implode when he gets a little frustrated. His career could go either way. It's all up to him.

Chiefster
12-22-2009, 06:30 AM
Matt's been up and down this year, but hard to lay the last loss at his feet IMO.

Canada
12-22-2009, 08:20 AM
Im not sayin hes the greatest, i just find it funny that I have to wade through tons of threads/posts calling for his head when he does not play well, but I dont think I saw one single post about how well he played against Cleveland!! Just thought it was kinda funny is all.

figcrostic
12-22-2009, 10:10 AM
And yet, the fact the receivers are dropping perfectly thrown balls still has no factor in all of this.

No they do, but how about when Chambers has to stick his hands down to his ankles to catch a quick pass. Or when he underthrows guys, it can't be all blamed on Cassel, but it's not all on the receivers either. Sunday he played good, but he was by no means perfect, but he played good enough that if his defense and special teams didn't play like crap he should have won that game.

figcrostic
12-22-2009, 10:12 AM
Im not sayin hes the greatest, i just find it funny that I have to wade through tons of threads/posts calling for his head when he does not play well, but I dont think I saw one single post about how well he played against Cleveland!! Just thought it was kinda funny is all.

If you read my thread cons/pros I said he played well and I saw others saying the same thing. He did play well good job Cassel hooray-gold star :yahoo::bananen_smilies046::D !!!!!

You happy now?

reded
12-22-2009, 11:04 AM
If you consider the 10 drops and give him a modest 6yds for each dropped pass he goes 32/40 391yds 2(possibly 3) TD's. Damn good day at work for any QB in my opinion.

yashi
12-22-2009, 11:32 AM
The only thing that baffles me is why we ran a Hail Mary from Cleveland's 30 yard line. Do we not have any 30 yard routes in the playbook? If not, that might be a problem. Teams complete 30 yard passes all the time.

garciakcfan
12-22-2009, 12:10 PM
1 mediocre game out of the past 4 or 5. i guess ill give him points for not throwing 3 interceptions this week. definitely not a hater but our team stinks

yashi
12-22-2009, 12:11 PM
1 mediocre game out of the past 4 or 5. i guess ill give him points for not throwing 3 interceptions this week. definitely not a hater but our team stinks

Just out of curiosity, what is classified as a 'good' game? 30-30 400 yds, 5 TDs, 0 INTs?

garciakcfan
12-22-2009, 12:16 PM
dont know why that ? was directed towards me but ill answer it for ya.. a good game imo is at least 66% completion rating, 225-275 yards, maybe 1 or 2 tds NO PICKS

yashi
12-22-2009, 12:19 PM
dont know why that ? was directed towards me but ill answer it for ya.. a good game imo is at least 66% completion rating, 225-275 yards, maybe 1 or 2 tds NO PICKS

Cassel had 331 yds, 2 TDs, no picks. His completion % would have been 66% if his receivers didn't have 8 dropped passes. Not sure how that is a mediocre game. Oh well.

Canada
12-22-2009, 12:24 PM
If you read my thread cons/pros I said he played well and I saw others saying the same thing. He did play well good job Cassel hooray-gold star :yahoo::bananen_smilies046::D !!!!!

You happy now?

Nope, don't care if anyone says if for me. I just think its funny that all you ever hear around here is b!tching and complaining but never a pat on the back when someone does well. But like I said, don't do it for my sake.

hometeam
12-22-2009, 12:51 PM
Im not sayin hes the greatest, i just find it funny that I have to wade through tons of threads/posts calling for his head when he does not play well, but I dont think I saw one single post about how well he played against Cleveland!! Just thought it was kinda funny is all.


He is supposed to play well. Thats what we want and expect. If he does what he is supposed to do you dont say how great he is, you save the attaboys for when he exceeds expectations (and that does not mean one game against arguably the worst team in the league) and likewise, when he sucks, you save the boos for those times.

In the case of the cleveland game he played well enough to not deserve boos.

Canada
12-22-2009, 01:18 PM
He is supposed to play well. Thats what we want and expect. If he does what he is supposed to do you dont say how great he is, you save the attaboys for when he exceeds expectations (and that does not mean one game against arguably the worst team in the league) and likewise, when he sucks, you save the boos for those times.

In the case of the cleveland game he played well enough to not deserve boos.

I guess I am just not one to boo our own team. I remember when Arrowhead was the toughest stadium to play in. It was loud, the fans were great. Now all you hear are boos and you see empty seats and we are out to crucify every guy that does not play well. No wonder players, coaches etc do not want to come to KC. Feel free to not say anything about Cassel, just don't be surprised when his confidence gets shattered or he does not give two sh!ts about the fans in KC. I guess we can always hope the next QB isnt a bust!!

reded
12-22-2009, 02:02 PM
I think too many people had their expectations set way too high this year, I for one did not. Our GM and new coaches were all hired too late to get in any sort of real evaluation of the talent and probably didn't pay much attention to the talent on our team last year since we were a 2-14 team.

My thought is that they used what they could and brought in a few people that they knew could conform to the system that they were trying to implement in an effort to get a few more wins than last year and try to get back some fans in the process.

Did it backfire? Maybe, maybe not. They now have a full year of experience in both their roles and an understanding of what the team needs in order to move forward. I think that Pioli will use this offseason to do some major revamping across the board as he now knows what parts work and which ones don't.

Yeah, he may have lost some fans this year but those same fans will be right back in their seats next year if we actually have a competitive team who has a legit shot at winning on any given Sunday.

Cassel will be fine once they give him the right tools and more time in the system. Haley will be fine once he looks back on this year and realizes what he did right and what he did wrong. They will continue to learn, collectively, what it takes to win in this league

Next year 7-9...

figcrostic
12-22-2009, 03:18 PM
Nope, don't care if anyone says if for me. I just think its funny that all you ever hear around here is b!tching and complaining but never a pat on the back when someone does well. But like I said, don't do it for my sake.

My thread was made prior to you making yours, and I did talk good on him because he played good not perfect but good, and good enough that we should have won.

Chiefster
12-22-2009, 03:46 PM
If the o-line is playing a defensive front line that they are able to actually handle, they are few and far between, then Cassel has a decent day. This tends to reveal, IMO, what I and most everyone else seemed to be harping on since the season's start and that is we need to address the o-line needs in the off season whether it be through the draft or free agency or both. For the most part I have few complaints about Cassel, and have made those complaints known. Having said thus, I believe that if we can put a real o-line in front of him and receivers that can actually catch the ball when it hits them in the hands then he will shine on a consistent basis.

figcrostic
12-22-2009, 04:10 PM
If the o-line is playing a defensive front line that they are able to actually handle, they are few and far between, then Cassel has a decent day. This tends to reveal, IMO, what I and most everyone else seemed to be harping on since the season's start and that is we need to address the o-line needs in the off season whether it be through the draft or free agency or both. For the most part I have few complaints about Cassel, and have made those complaints known. Having said thus, I believe that if we can put a real o-line in front of him and receivers that can actually catch the ball when it hits them in the hands then he will shine on a consistent basis.

I would agree with that, I don't think he is good enough to carry a team like Peyton Manning, but when he's on a good team he is good.

#58ChiefsFan
12-22-2009, 09:56 PM
Manning is in a league of one.

kilobytes
12-22-2009, 11:52 PM
I have been pretty in the middle but its the Browns and the previous couple weeks he's been terrible so if he doesn't improve next year then off with him.

Chiefster
12-23-2009, 12:39 AM
I have been pretty in the middle but its the Browns and the previous couple weeks he's been terrible so if he doesn't improve next year then off with him.

I actually have a hard time laying the Browns loss solely at his feet. I think he played well considering the amount of dropped balls by receivers. Cassel can't both throw and catch the ball also.

fairladyZ
12-23-2009, 12:53 AM
I never agree with canada but all his posts lately especially about cassel i have to agree 100% with, and the booing the team.

I had a feeling we would lose the browns game. They are actually playing pretty good football. Now they shouldn't have but we can only blame our defense and special teams. Offense did have some drops but they did more than enough to win this game.

Coach
12-23-2009, 12:59 AM
I started as a Cassell fan, and am an even bigger Cassell fan after watching him play this season. He's a tough kid. New offense, bad OL, and WR's that drop a LOT of passes.

I was thinking about the alternatives during Sunday's game. Stafford, Sanchez?? I'll take Matt Cassell in the 2nd round all day. It was great value.

Stafford: 2267yds, 13td's, 20 int's with far better WR's.
Sanchez: 2275yds, 12td's, 20 int's with a superior OL
Cassell: 2537yds, 15td's, 13 int's.

I just hope he continues to get better as he gets help on the OL and WR's. Most of all, I've been impressed with his toughness.

I like him a lot.
YouTube- I Like You... I Like You Ahh-lawt.

Chiefster
12-23-2009, 01:07 AM
I started as a Cassell fan, and am an even bigger Cassell fan after watching him play this season. He's a tough kid. New offense, bad OL, and WR's that drop a LOT of passes.

I was thinking about the alternatives during Sunday's game. Stafford, Sanchez?? I'll take Matt Cassell in the 2nd round all day. It was great value.

Stafford: 2267yds, 13td's, 20 int's with far better WR's.
Sanchez: 2275yds, 12td's, 20 int's with a superior OL
Cassell: 2537yds, 15td's, 13 int's.

I just hope he continues to get better as he gets help on the OL and WR's. Most of all, I've been impressed with his toughness.

I like him a lot.
YouTube- I Like You... I Like You Ahh-lawt. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFaNkvrp0g)

Nice stat work Coach! Can't argue with the numbers!

honda522
12-23-2009, 01:21 AM
Stafford: 2267yds, 13td's, 20 int's with far better WR's.
Sanchez: 2275yds, 12td's, 20 int's with a superior OL
Cassell: 2537yds, 15td's, 13 int's.

Those are good stats you pulled up there. Ofcourse it doesn't include completion %.

He only had to horrendous games. Against the Broncos and well 2 against the Chargers...thats where most his INTS came from. Those games without Bowe hurt him too. It seems like even if Bowe sucks it still helps the other WR out on the double team.

Chiefster
12-23-2009, 01:25 AM
Those are good stats you pulled up there. Ofcourse it doesn't include completion %.

He only had to horrendous games. Against the Broncos and well 2 against the Chargers...thats where most his INTS came from. Those games without Bowe hurt him too. It seems like even if Bowe sucks it still helps the other WR out on the double team.

He actually addressed that; not in the form of statistics but but with his reference to receivers with terrible hands.

honda522
12-23-2009, 01:28 AM
He actually addressed that; not in the form of statistics but but with his reference to receivers with terrible hands.
Maybe true.....but not always is it the Wideouts fault. He has to get rid of it sometimes. He just doesn't do it enough.

you can remove the sticky now.

Coach
12-23-2009, 01:28 AM
Those are good stats you pulled up there. Ofcourse it doesn't include completion %.

He only had to horrendous games. Against the Broncos and well 2 against the Chargers...thats where most his INTS came from. Those games without Bowe hurt him too. It seems like even if Bowe sucks it still helps the other WR out on the double team.

I didn't include every stat such as completion %, because his WR's lead the league in dropped passes. I didn't include games played, because durability should be considered. Nobody has picked their *** of the grass more than Cassell. He's been very good considering the circumstances. New coach, new team, new system, WR's that can't catch, HORRENDOUS OL, one dimensional offense because they are always playing from behind(Thanks Clancy!).

Cassell hasn't been great, but given the circumstances he's been as much as we could hope for. Somewhere around week 4-5 I was thinking to myself that 2009 would be a successful year so long as Cassell finishes the season. At this point, that is all I am hoping for.

Chiefster
12-23-2009, 01:32 AM
Maybe true.....but not always is it the Wideouts fault. He has to get rid of it sometimes. He just doesn't do it enough.

you can remove the sticky now.

LOL! Will do buddy. :D

Chiefster
12-23-2009, 01:33 AM
Looks like Coach already has.

Chiefster
12-23-2009, 01:34 AM
I didn't include every stat such as completion %, because his WR's lead the league in dropped passes. I didn't include games played, because durability should be considered. Nobody has picked their *** of the grass more than Cassell. He's been very good considering the circumstances. New coach, new team, new system, WR's that can't catch, HORRENDOUS OL, one dimensional offense because they are always playing from behind(Thanks Clancy!).

Cassell hasn't been great, but given the circumstances he's been as much as we could hope for. Somewhere around week 4-5 I was thinking to myself that 2009 would be a successful year so long as Cassell finishes the season. At this point, that is all I am hoping for.

...This!

Coach
12-23-2009, 01:37 AM
Maybe true.....but not always is it the Wideouts fault. He has to get rid of it sometimes. He just doesn't do it enough.

you can remove the sticky now.
I agree that Cassell needs to get better at throwing the ball away. I think he struggles with that mainly because he is running on every play. If he threw the ball away every time there was a broken play, he would look like Jamarcus Russell.

Chiefster
12-23-2009, 01:41 AM
...And I've never seen a QB run for his life as much as Cassel has. As frustrated as I've been with him at times in taking the sack, I challenge any other QB to do much better.

tornadospotter
12-23-2009, 02:10 AM
I can not comment on Cassel's play, due to fact that, I COULD NOT WATCH THE GAME!

Chiefster
12-23-2009, 02:24 AM
I can not comment on Cassel's play, due to fact that, I COULD NOT WATCH THE GAME!


Good point!

figcrostic
12-23-2009, 09:47 AM
I started as a Cassell fan, and am an even bigger Cassell fan after watching him play this season. He's a tough kid. New offense, bad OL, and WR's that drop a LOT of passes.

I was thinking about the alternatives during Sunday's game. Stafford, Sanchez?? I'll take Matt Cassell in the 2nd round all day. It was great value.

Stafford: 2267yds, 13td's, 20 int's with far better WR's.
Sanchez: 2275yds, 12td's, 20 int's with a superior OL
Cassell: 2537yds, 15td's, 13 int's.

I just hope he continues to get better as he gets help on the OL and WR's. Most of all, I've been impressed with his toughness.

I like him a lot.
YouTube- I Like You... I Like You Ahh-lawt. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBFaNkvrp0g)

Matt Stafford sucks he is so overrated, of course Cassel is better!

yashi
12-23-2009, 10:07 AM
I like Stafford a lot and I think he'll be a great QB once they have an offensive line in place and weapons besides Megatron, who is double covered every game. He's only 21 years old.

Sanchez on the other hand. I think he's going to be a colossal bust. He has all the talent around him, and still makes constant mistakes.

Right now Cassel is better than both, but let's remember that he's also a lot older than both of those guys with an extra year of starting experience. It's not fair to compare right now.

Pro_Angler
12-23-2009, 07:16 PM
I hear you all after he makes a mistake trying to crucify him, how come I dont hear anyone talking about what a good game he had? Hypocrites!!

Ill say it he had a midiocure game and he still sucks!

hometeam
12-23-2009, 09:32 PM
Just throwing this out there, but lets compare Thigpens stats from last year.

230/420, 2608 yards, 18 tds, 12 picks.

So we payed 60 million dollars and a 2nd round pick for something we already had.

edit: btw this was in 14 games, only 11 of which did he start, and nearly every one of those we where within one touchdown of winning.

edit: forgot sacks as well, thigpen only sacked 26 times, cassel 41 in about the same number of attempts. Cassel was sacked 47 times in NE behind a pretty solid O line. SEE A PATTERN?

#58ChiefsFan
12-23-2009, 10:20 PM
Actually his contract is for 36 guaranteed. New England had him franchised at 14 so we were stuck from there. Only complaint I have with him is his patriot like press conferences this year.

hometeam
12-23-2009, 10:28 PM
Actually his contract is for 36 guaranteed. New England had him franchised at 14 so we were stuck from there. Only complaint I have with him is his patriot like press conferences this year.


I understand the nuances of how contracts work, but the larger number better supports my position on the matter :toast2:

#58ChiefsFan
12-23-2009, 10:42 PM
I see your point both seventh round picks taken 230 and 217 overall. But taking into account what I believe is twelve picks this year? Matt overall td-int is 35-19 for 5666 yds and a 89.4 rating. Tyler is 18-13 2649 with a 76.0 rating.

Improvement? By the numbers a little. Worth the money?Based on this year not really but in a year or two when he learns to read coverage better I think so.

I trust Pioli in his ability to build this team and Matts paycheck was more new englands cause than what he demanded to come play here.

MDChiefs!
12-23-2009, 10:46 PM
Matt Cassel's contract is super front loaded so if we decide to dump in one or 2 seasons, we will take minimal cap hit.

hometeam
12-23-2009, 11:37 PM
I see your point both seventh round picks taken 230 and 217 overall. But taking into account what I believe is twelve picks this year? Matt overall td-int is 35-19 for 5666 yds and a 89.4 rating. Tyler is 18-13 2649 with a 76.0 rating.

Improvement? By the numbers a little. Worth the money?Based on this year not really but in a year or two when he learns to read coverage better I think so.

I trust Pioli in his ability to build this team and Matts paycheck was more new englands cause than what he demanded to come play here.


when you are comparing overall numbers, remember last year cassel was 11-5 with randy moss, wes wlker, belichek, better defense, better o line, and eveyrthing else that goes with the patriots etc. So, thats more of a stretch.

When you compare them here, one year after another, cassel arguably having the much better running game, and better recieving (that is debatable) cassel didnt do really much of anything that anyone currently playing backup QB around the league wouldnt be expected to do.

also going back to stafford and sanchez, not only are they rookies, just becuase they arent playing well doesnt mean cassel is playing well.

AussieChiefsFan
12-23-2009, 11:47 PM
when you are comparing overall numbers, remember last year cassel was 11-5 with randy moss, wes wlker, belichek, better defense, better o line, and eveyrthing else that goes with the patriots etc. So, thats more of a stretch.

When you compare them here, one year after another, cassel arguably having the much better running game, and better recieving (that is debatable) cassel didnt do really much of anything that anyone currently playing backup QB around the league wouldnt be expected to do.

also going back to stafford and sanchez, not only are they rookies, just becuase they arent playing well doesnt mean cassel is playing well.:bananen_smilies046:

#58ChiefsFan
12-24-2009, 12:01 AM
You make a good arguement, I still believe that Matts numbers in New England are more in line with what he is capable of than what has evolved this season. Reason I make the NE reference is because we have Pioli now and we are going to end up with a team much the same as you made mention of.

Matt being 11-5 as a starter there, coming here and getting a similar system implemented and having a few years to hone his skills puts us in a pretty sweet spot say four years from now. 3-4 years from this one I hope to vie for a shot at late round playoffs and maybe the big show?

The numbers I posted were to make a case for why they would bring matt in for Tyler. If you take matts time in KC out I think his stats make a better argument though I would have to look up his last year numbers

#58ChiefsFan
12-24-2009, 12:21 AM
One other thought is that I think Herm did a better job of trying to run an offense his quarterback could be immediatly successful in. Compared to Haley pushing his system on this team reguardless of individual strengths

figcrostic
12-24-2009, 12:21 AM
Just throwing this out there, but lets compare Thigpens stats from last year.

230/420, 2608 yards, 18 tds, 12 picks.

So we payed 60 million dollars and a 2nd round pick for something we already had.

edit: btw this was in 14 games, only 11 of which did he start, and nearly every one of those we where within one touchdown of winning.

edit: forgot sacks as well, thigpen only sacked 26 times, cassel 41 in about the same number of attempts. Cassel was sacked 47 times in NE behind a pretty solid O line. SEE A PATTERN?
Although I agree with everything you just put it pains me to read that because I liked Thigpen, and he's gone, so I don't even bring him up.:sign0053:

hometeam
12-24-2009, 12:52 AM
One other thought is that I think Herm did a better job of trying to run an offense his quarterback could be immediatly successful in. Compared to Haley pushing his system on this team reguardless of individual strengths



it was Chan Gailey who did that, not Herm. Who knows what it would have been like if CG was here this year.

fairladyZ
12-24-2009, 04:06 AM
whats funny is EVERYONE knows our line is garbage. Yet he is on pace to be sacked just as much as he was in NE... So that tells me that maybe NE's line is not as good as people think?

You say in NE when he was 11-5 he had Moss, and Welker and all those guys.. Hey guess what, Brady still has those guys and if they win out guess what.. They finish 11-5, same as with cassel.

Cassel has done nothing wrong this year. He does hold the ball and takes some unnecessary sacks and it does upset me sometimes but seriously the guy is just trying to make a play. If he didn't then people would be yelling about how he sucks for not wanting to make plays and take a chance.
Get the tools around him. Period. You cannot judge a quarterback without the tools in place around him.. We got a running back, we got a receiver or 2 that now they just need to catch the ball. We need a slot receiver, a TE that is a reliable target, and then an o-line for this o to be complete. Until then cassel's numbers will not look good.

Name 1 quarterback that is on a real bad offense that is putting up stellar numbers like you guys want. Not Nobody!!!
Get off the guys *** and give him a year to atleast get his feet wet jesus!

windwalker
12-24-2009, 09:03 AM
No they do, but how about when Chambers has to stick his hands down to his ankles to catch a quick pass. Or when he underthrows guys, it can't be all blamed on Cassel, but it's not all on the receivers either. Sunday he played good, but he was by no means perfect, but he played good enough that if his defense and special teams didn't play like crap he should have won that game.

Isn't that what we said last year with Thigpen in about 6 to 8 games????
oh yeah, Thigpen didn't cost an arm and a leg.

yashi
12-24-2009, 10:24 AM
Thigpen had the luxury of dumping it to Tony G on any given play though, which he utilized often. Anywhere in the vicinity of TG and it was a completion. It's not really fair to compare Cassel and Thigpen, given the options available to them.

matthewschiefs
12-24-2009, 11:32 AM
Thigpen had the luxury of dumping it to Tony G on any given play though, which he utilized often. Anywhere in the vicinity of TG and it was a completion. It's not really fair to compare Cassel and Thigpen, given the options available to them.

TG is what made thigpen look so good. He also gave thigpen some confedance and that helped him later in games. TG is a big weapon. Thats why I am not some mad that Haley fired Chan. Sure Haley did not have the sucess that Chan did at first but Chan had TG. Here lately the Chiefs have been able to move the ball fairly well. If they would just stop shooting themselfs in the foot then they would be a much better offense. GO CHIEFS!!!

Pro_Angler
12-25-2009, 10:46 PM
when you are comparing overall numbers, remember last year cassel was 11-5 with randy moss, wes wlker, belichek, better defense, better o line, and eveyrthing else that goes with the patriots etc. So, thats more of a stretch.

When you compare them here, one year after another, cassel arguably having the much better running game, and better recieving (that is debatable) cassel didnt do really much of anything that anyone currently playing backup QB around the league wouldnt be expected to do.

also going back to stafford and sanchez, not only are they rookies, just becuase they arent playing well doesnt mean cassel is playing well.




Yes so if POS CAssel could have done that rthen Thig probably would have won a SB with that team! Get over yourselves Cassell is nothing!!!!!!!!

Vandelay
12-26-2009, 03:07 AM
Yes so if POS CAssel could have done that rthen Thig probably would have won a SB with that team! Get over yourselves Cassell is nothing!!!!!!!!
You should really quit calling our QB a POS.
I still say the Cassel has done an outstanding job, (outside of about 2 games). He's had a bad o-line, no running game the first half of the year, his recievers can't catch passes that hit them in the numbers, and he has taken an absolute pounding back there and always gotten back up.
WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT FROM THE GUY. Give him some help and he will be fine.

kilobytes
12-26-2009, 08:52 PM
But Thigpen had a strong and more accurate arm. He threaded the needle several times to different targets not just TG. He also is much more mobile and durable. I would take him over Cassel anyday. Cassel does not have a strong arm nor is that accurate. Hes an okay QB but I think he is a little smarter QB. Thigpen suits the team much better especially if Chan stayed.

CapitalT
12-26-2009, 09:38 PM
I liked Thigpen but I think Cassel has done surprisingly well. I believe there are only a handful of quarterbacks in the league that you could argue might do better given our circumstances.

Let's wait till we have a better offensive line before we judge him too harshly.

Vandelay
12-27-2009, 01:31 AM
But Thigpen had a strong and more accurate arm. He threaded the needle several times to different targets not just TG. He also is much more mobile and durable. I would take him over Cassel anyday. Cassel does not have a strong arm nor is that accurate. Hes an okay QB but I think he is a little smarter QB. Thigpen suits the team much better especially if Chan stayed.
I liked Thiggy a lot, but his arm was niether strong nor accurate, so you can drop that argument.
If TG was still here this would be a much different offense, and there would be someone to pass the ball to that would actually catch it. But he wanted to go elswhere and not make the playoffs.

hometeam
12-27-2009, 01:56 AM
my point in even bringin up Thiggy is just to show that while Cassel has had a couple of decent games, we already had someone on the team who proved they could do the same thing~

I dont think Thig was our QB of the future. Niether do I think Cassel fills that role. I dont know if I will be satisfied until we get a truly great Qb in here, ala manning/Brady/Marino etc etc. Maybe thats not the right attitude but I look at all the teams doing year after year what we think we can and should do (not just QB problems but all around improvements) and I just say 'why not us?'

marloweopatchiefs
12-28-2009, 12:13 AM
Wow cassel will be fine...thigpen sucked..he was only good in the spread offense..appraently these thigpen lovers didn't watch thiggy in pre season in a normal style offensive scheme..he couldn't move the ball if his life depended on it

chiefnut
12-28-2009, 10:39 AM
i have never been a cassel hater, just never thought he was worth 60 mil. or the draft pick, we could have kept thiggy for another year, then if he didn't work out draft a qb. would we be any worse off, probably not, maybe we win another game or two on his scrambling.

honda522
12-28-2009, 11:52 AM
Wow cassel will be fine...thigpen sucked..he was only good in the spread offense..appraently these thigpen lovers didn't watch thiggy in pre season in a normal style offensive scheme..he couldn't move the ball if his life depended on it
Yea, Thig was just a bandaid

matthewschiefs
12-28-2009, 12:01 PM
i have never been a cassel hater, just never thought he was worth 60 mil. or the draft pick, we could have kept thiggy for another year, then if he didn't work out draft a qb. would we be any worse off, probably not, maybe we win another game or two on his scrambling.

His scrambilng would have been a help in some areas but hes not a good true QB. Last year realy Tony G made him look better then what he was. We did not have him this year. A year ago i was on that thigpen bandwagon but we saw in the preseason that thigpen was not a true QB. He might not have as many sacks but I think that he would have a much higher number of picks.

chiefnut
12-28-2009, 12:19 PM
Yea, Thig was just a bandaid


unfortunately our run D and offensive line needs a tornaquette

garciakcfan
12-28-2009, 12:39 PM
why are we talking about thigpen??? last time i checked he was in miami and not playing. get over it thigpen lovers!!!!! The main problem I personally would like to see improvement on next year are the stupid mistakes we make on offense and our defensive pressure. Did anyone see the stat yesterday about false starts?? we were like 3rd most in the league with those penalties. Penalties killed us this year, guys not lining up right, false starts, these killed so many drives and our offense was never in rhythm. I do have to say that it was a lot sloppier watching this team this year than last year.... But i do like haley, just hoping he turns this around

chiefnut
12-28-2009, 12:55 PM
Penalties, it is widley accepted, is a direct result of coaching, or lack there of

Connie Jo
12-28-2009, 01:03 PM
at best he is inconsistent, at worst (remember, 2 of the ten lowest QB ratings for games this year) he is a complete waste of space.

My opinion falls somewhere in between that

I don't put much faith in QB ratings, too many factors lower ratings, of which in reality can make a good QB appear to be a bad one statistically. IE: A QB is only as good as his team-mates, including receivers catching passes. I have to wonder...what would Montana's stats be with receivers dropping as many passes in one season as our Chief's receivers have...over 50 as of yesterday's game. What would Cassel's stat's be if he had receiver's with the talent of Jerry Rice? :)

Not to mention a better O-Line protecting him.

chiefnut
12-28-2009, 01:11 PM
i think cassel is a "good" qb but was not the answer we seeked as our record proves. our needs our many, our answers few.

marloweopatchiefs
12-28-2009, 02:38 PM
Lets just see what happens in the off season and see if we get better players...if we can get some better o line man and some receivers people might be changing there tunes about cassel.

Chiefster
12-28-2009, 03:46 PM
I don't put much faith in QB ratings, too many factors lower ratings, of which in reality can make a good QB appear to be a bad one statistically. IE: A QB is only as good as his team-mates, including receivers catching passes. I have to wonder...what would Montana's stats be with receivers dropping as many passes in one season as our Chief's receivers have...over 50 as of yesterday's game. What would Cassel's stat's be if he had receiver's with the talent of Jerry Rice? :)

Not to mention a better O-Line protecting him.

...This!

...And, by the same token there are supporting casts on teams around the NFL who can make poor or marginally talented QB's look brilliant statistically.

Good post!

figcrostic
12-28-2009, 06:13 PM
I don't put much faith in QB ratings, too many factors lower ratings, of which in reality can make a good QB appear to be a bad one statistically. IE: A QB is only as good as his team-mates, including receivers catching passes. I have to wonder...what would Montana's stats be with receivers dropping as many passes in one season as our Chief's receivers have...over 50 as of yesterday's game. What would Cassel's stat's be if he had receiver's with the talent of Jerry Rice? :)

Not to mention a better O-Line protecting him.

Yeah lets go ahead and compare Joe Montana to Cassel and see how that works out. The only thing Cassel has on Joe is he can take a hit better.

Connie Jo
12-28-2009, 08:49 PM
Yeah lets go ahead and compare Joe Montana to Cassel and see how that works out. The only thing Cassel has on Joe is he can take a hit better.

Silly, re-read, hahaha. You took my post out of context, hahaha.

I wasn't comparing talent & skill, accomplishments of Montana to Cassel...I was giving a hypothetical ponder related to stats being accurate, based upon a QB's team-mates doing their job, such as receiver's not dropping passes, being where they're suppose to be, timing, etc..

IE: Montana could throw a perfect pass with accurate timing each time, but if his target receiver doesn't catch the ball, drops it or isn't where he need's to be, whatever...then it go's against Montana's stats, incomplete pass, possibly even an interception.

Now, if one choose's to read my post as making a comparison, it would be more accurate to say I was making comparisons to the skill and talent of Jerry Rice vs our receiver's.

I stand firm...a QB is only as good as his team-mates, specifically related to this subject, his receiver's. Yes, Joe Montana is a great and legendary QB, Cassel is not, yet anyway, (doesn't hurt to wish for the future does it? haha) and Montana's top WR was as well legendary and great.

If Cassel and Bowe (example) had it together the way Montana and Rice did...well, legends would be born again. :)

marloweopatchiefs
12-28-2009, 10:37 PM
connie joe forgive the figcrostic he is a brodie no talent croyle fan. Just simply ignore him.

Good point btw when you are set to break the record for most dropped passes in the season it determines how everyone rates cassel's performance. Not to mention a weak oline to top these receivers who can't catch.

Pro_Angler
12-29-2009, 12:11 AM
Casell is a average QB not worth near the money he got, that is why I am so mad at him. he makes the stupid 3-4 idiot throws or bone head plays someone of his dollar amount should not make!! I dont think we will ever have a good enough line or reciever to cover his faults while he is in his prime so why spend the money?

hometeam
12-29-2009, 04:32 AM
why are we talking about thigpen??? last time i checked he was in miami and not playing. get over it thigpen lovers!!!!!


its not about thigpen, its about cassel putting up the same numbers except we payed him 10000x as much~

nobody thinks thigpen was gonna be the guy here, but statistically, cassel is no better or worse than him, yet he seems to be anointed the next greatest thing, so why not bring up the parallel?

Vandelay
12-29-2009, 08:41 AM
its not about thigpen, its about cassel putting up the same numbers except we payed him 10000x as much~

nobody thinks thigpen was gonna be the guy here, but statistically, cassel is no better or worse than him, yet he seems to be anointed the next greatest thing, so why not bring up the parallel?
He's putting up the same numbers without TG.
Can you imagine how much better Cassel's numbers would be if he had 88 as a weapon.

figcrostic
12-29-2009, 10:08 AM
He's putting up the same numbers without TG.
Can you imagine how much better Cassel's numbers would be if he had 88 as a weapon.

Cassel also has Chris Chambers, a better line, and Jamaal Charles. TG is good, but he is not the whole team.

figcrostic
12-29-2009, 10:30 AM
Silly, re-read, hahaha. You took my post out of context, hahaha.

I wasn't comparing talent & skill, accomplishments of Montana to Cassel...I was giving a hypothetical ponder related to stats being accurate, based upon a QB's team-mates doing their job, such as receiver's not dropping passes, being where they're suppose to be, timing, etc..

IE: Montana could throw a perfect pass with accurate timing each time, but if his target receiver doesn't catch the ball, drops it or isn't where he need's to be, whatever...then it go's against Montana's stats, incomplete pass, possibly even an interception.

Now, if one choose's to read my post as making a comparison, it would be more accurate to say I was making comparisons to the skill and talent of Jerry Rice vs our receiver's.

I stand firm...a QB is only as good as his team-mates, specifically related to this subject, his receiver's. Yes, Joe Montana is a great and legendary QB, Cassel is not, yet anyway, (doesn't hurt to wish for the future does it? haha) and Montana's top WR was as well legendary and great.

If Cassel and Bowe (example) had it together the way Montana and Rice did...well, legends would be born again. :)

Montana also gave us our last playoff win and had a worse WR core then Cassel has, he had 60.7 (Cassel 55) completion which is low for him but he was on the back end of his career but unlike Cassel, Montana had the touch.

figcrostic
12-29-2009, 10:35 AM
connie joe forgive the figcrostic he is a brodie no talent croyle fan. Just simply ignore him.

Good point btw when you are set to break the record for most dropped passes in the season it determines how everyone rates cassel's performance. Not to mention a weak oline to top these receivers who can't catch.

No I actually don't like Brodie, but Cassel has had some games that made Brodie look good. I honestly think we should draft a 2nd or 3rd round QB though in case Cassel don't work out, and if he does we could do what New England does and build a player up and trade them.

pbatrucker
12-29-2009, 01:58 PM
No I actually don't like Brodie, but Cassel has had some games that made Brodie look good. I honestly think we should draft a 2nd or 3rd round QB though in case Cassel don't work out, and if he does we could do what New England does and build a player up and trade them.
Our QB situation is fine. We have far too many other holes to fill than QB.

Connie Jo
12-29-2009, 08:58 PM
Montana also gave us our last playoff win and had a worse WR core then Cassel has, he had 60.7 (Cassel 55) completion which is low for him but he was on the back end of his career but unlike Cassel, Montana had the touch.

The Montana/Chiefs era had Marcus Allen too. Not that you're stating as such, but Montana didn't give us our last playoff win alone...one of the best ever, if not the best...defense's in the NFL at that time was the Chiefs defense. We had a decent O-Line too. Shoot, one can't really compare the overall Chiefs team during the brief Montana era...to that of the overall Chiefs team Cassel has.

Yep, Montana had the touch in his peak, but he also was a long time Veteran by comparison to Cassel. If memory is correct, I believe it was Montana's 5th yr in the NFL prior to his 'touch' showing up.

Anyway, I'm just saying I don't put much faith in stats...prefer to look at the overall big picture, rather than individual stats to form a personal opinion. :)