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matthewschiefs
12-22-2009, 12:39 PM
Ok so there are many threds talking about fireing Todd Haley or makeing him just the OC and getting a new Head coach. Well I am going to make a case for him.

1st The Chiefs are NOT a team that have clearly gone backwards from a season ago. They have one more win. They have problems this season but its not like theses problems are anything new. They are just things that have not been fixed yet. Haley deserves time to fix these problems. This is not his mess he should get time to fix it. The D was bad a year ago with Gunther as DC. Thats not anything new. The O LINE was bad a year ago with Chan as OC thats nothing new. Haley should get more then 1 year to fix theses problems.

2nd Jamal Charles. Alot of fans are upset becuse Charles did not start the season as the starting RB of the Chiefs. There is a reason that it happend that way. FUMBLES. Thats why Charles was not the starter at the beging of the season. Haley could only go off what he saw in the preseason. Charles Had the fumble bug in the preseaon. You cant start a guy at RB if you dont know that he can hold on the the ball. Thats just how football works. I completly agree with that desicon.

3rd This team would defenty go backwards if Haley was fired and ONCE again we started all over. When the New coach got in we would have alot of the same problems. The young players that would stay on this football team would have to go through there 3rd system in 3 years. Thats never going to help a football team. It would only slow down the devolpment of this young team. Does anyone realy want to start all over yet again before Haley gets a real Chance with players that he choses to bring in. Starting over would do this team NO GOOD at this point.

There are some problems that this team has that are new. But as much as this season has been frustrating to watch there are some signs of life in some areas of this team. The O line has been better then what they were at the start of the season. Are they good no but they have improved over the season. The pass rush on this team is better then it was a year ago. They are not going to set a all time low for sacks like they did a season ago. Hali has defently been made a better player. There are signs of improvement on this team. Give it time and it may still work out. I dont think anyone would care who the Chiefs coach is as long as they are winning. But Starting over AGAIN next season IMO would be the wrong thing to do.

GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!!!

honda522
12-22-2009, 12:48 PM
1. You almost never go forwards before going backwards when your that bad. Otherwise you end up with teams like the Broncos, Falcons, and Jets. Quick fixs aren't the answer.

2. I don't agree with JC not being the starter from the beginning. I would have rather got the bug out of him early, seeing how we were losing already. LJ was nothign but a problem once he signed that contract. I am thinking we should resign JC to reward him for this year, that way it doesn't go the LJ way.

3. I agree with you there. Look at Cleavland, Oakland, and Seattle. They are never good because they make so many head coaching changes. Schemes change almost every year and players don't adapt to them. Maybe it was bad we fired Herm, but Pioli wanted a new scheme. Just give the scheme time to develop.

reded
12-22-2009, 04:10 PM
Totally agree with both of you!

Hayvern
12-22-2009, 04:15 PM
Haley has a chance to show that he is in this to make good decisions and move this team forward by naming new coordinators to his coaching squad.

I would also be looking for an Offensive line coach and a defensive line coach to be named pretty soon as well.

If he moves quickly to replace those positions, then maybe there is some intelligence behind that angry exterior he has thrown around all season.

reded
12-22-2009, 04:19 PM
Haley has a chance to show that he is in this to make good decisions and move this team forward by naming new coordinators to his coaching squad.

I would also be looking for an Offensive line coach and a defensive line coach to be named pretty soon as well.

If he moves quickly to replace those positions, then maybe there is some intelligence behind that angry exterior he has thrown around all season.

At least he's toned it downed a couple notches since the beginning of the season. In a couple of those early games I thought he was actually gonna "blow a gasket" and drop dead on the sidelines.

Kid Azteca
12-22-2009, 07:09 PM
1. You almost never go forwards before going backwards when your that bad. Otherwise you end up with teams like the Broncos, Falcons, and Jets. Quick fixs aren't the answer..

I've seen you mention this before in regards to the Broncos. What "quick fix" are you referring to exactly? Denver was supposed to be the worst team in the AFC this year. School me please.

Canada
12-22-2009, 07:16 PM
I've seen you mention this before in regards to the Broncos. What "quick fix" are you referring to exactly? Denver was supposed to be the worst team in the AFC this year. School me please.

Its like a team the overacheives for the first six games, then maybe squeaks into a wild card spot only to get their as$es handed to them. Then next season they can pretend that they were really that good and ignore the problems that they have for another year. Class dismissed.

Kid Azteca
12-22-2009, 07:25 PM
Its like a team the overacheives for the first six games, then maybe squeaks into a wild card spot only to get their as handed to them. Then next season they can pretend that they were really that good and ignore the problems that they have for another year. Class dismissed.


Lol, so by that logic you assume that Denver traded away Cutler fully aware they would be in playoff position come December? Please.

I'll ask again, where's the "quick fix'?

Canada
12-22-2009, 08:49 PM
Lol, so by that logic you assume that Denver traded away Cutler fully aware they would be in playoff position come December? Please.

I'll ask again, where's the "quick fix'?

Oh, I thought u hired a new coach, got a new QB etc....guess I was wrong.

Kid Azteca
12-22-2009, 09:02 PM
Oh, I thought u hired a new coach, got a new QB etc....guess I was wrong.

So in essence you're saying that Kansas City went the "quick fix" rout?

To me-that's called "rebuilding".

rongreen1@mac.com
12-22-2009, 09:05 PM
Haley has a chance to show that he is in this to make good decisions and move this team forward by naming new coordinators to his coaching squad.

I would also be looking for an Offensive line coach and a defensive line coach to be named pretty soon as well.

If he moves quickly to replace those positions, then maybe there is some intelligence behind that angry exterior he has thrown around all season.

Couldn't agree more.

honda522
12-22-2009, 09:51 PM
Lol, so by that logic you assume that Denver traded away Cutler fully aware they would be in playoff position come December? Please.

I'll ask again, where's the "quick fix'?
Don't put a band aid on where a stitch needs to be. Thats all they did.

Otron...
Brian Dawkins....

Kid Azteca
12-22-2009, 10:14 PM
Don't put a band aid on where a stitch needs to be. Thats all they did.

Otron...
Brian Dawkins....

Lol-we brought Dawkins in to give veteran leadership to a defense with 8 new starters. That's not a "band-aid" that's foresight.

And Orton-he was a throw in from the biggest trade this sport has seen this decade. Nobody in Denver envisioned him have better stats than Cutler at this point in the season. It just worked out that way.

Again-Denver is in a rebuilding process, only ours consist of 8 win seasons with a top 10 pick coming our way this spring.

honda522
12-22-2009, 10:37 PM
Again, its only tmep.

Kid Azteca
12-22-2009, 10:42 PM
Again-you make no point.

honda522
12-22-2009, 10:49 PM
Why do you think devner is falling apart?
Your not that bright are you?

Kid Azteca
12-22-2009, 10:53 PM
You're all over the the place now. I know I've been schooling you, so I'll let you gather your thoughts and you can get at me when you can make a coherent argument.

Too easy.

#58ChiefsFan
12-22-2009, 10:57 PM
Will you two give me five minutes to get some popcorn for this?

Kid Azteca
12-22-2009, 11:02 PM
Will you two give me five minutes to get some popcorn for this?

Lol, you must enjoy one sided beatdowns.

honda522
12-22-2009, 11:04 PM
You're all over the the place now. I know I've been schooling you, so I'll let you gather your thoughts and you can get at me when you can make a coherent argument.

Too easy.
I think its funny how you think you know everything about the Chiefs, so I figure I can know everything there is about the Broncos. They suck.:pointlaugh:

Kid Azteca
12-22-2009, 11:12 PM
I think its funny how you think you know everything about the Chiefs, so I figure I can know everything there is about the Broncos. They suck.:pointlaugh:

Another coppout. And I accept the white flag you raised-I won't even bring up the fact that you couldn't back up your nonsense about Denver and "quick fixes".

honda522
12-22-2009, 11:17 PM
Another coppout. And I accept the white flag you raised-I won't even bring up the fact that you couldn't back up your nonsense about Denver and "quick fixes".
Hey, you come to a Chiefs forum bringing the Denver talk, you ain't gonna get respect. Don't cry on the way out.

drstandley31
12-23-2009, 12:37 AM
Sorry, not buying your argument. However, I do agree that getting rid of Haley would be a mistake, unless perhaps it was for Cowher. That being said, I don't expect him to get fired. But it has been a step back. These players have another year of experience under their belts and should be playing better and they are not. The play calling has not gotten one ounce better since last year, and frankly that's a step backwards. Most drop passed in the NFL is a step backwards. Both rushing and passing Defense ranked 30+ for the first time in team history is a step backwards, and frankly losing to a joke of an organization at home, in week 15 is a step backwards. So sorry brother, but I"m not buying it, we didn't move forward, and mostly we went backwards. I'm going to cincinnati this weekend. I'll wear my gear, and give all the encouragement I can, but all that gives me is the continued right to say that this team SUCKS! a few bright spots, but mostly sucks, and we can all thank F'n Herm and Carl for that. And if they don't make some big changes in OC & DC, then we can start blaming more people.

Coach
12-23-2009, 01:07 AM
The Broncos are who we thought they were.

YouTube- Dennis Green Goes Nuts

Coach
12-23-2009, 01:08 AM
At least he's toned it downed a couple notches since the beginning of the season. In a couple of those early games I thought he was actually gonna "blow a gasket" and drop dead on the sidelines.

I agree. It's been nice to see Haley begin to mature as a coach.

honda522
12-23-2009, 01:10 AM
The Broncos are who we thought they were.

YouTube- Dennis Green Goes Nuts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDAq5tyfk9E)
:D:pointlaugh::lol::funnypost:

Coach gets the rep. :D:D

Chiefster
12-23-2009, 01:13 AM
The Broncos are who we thought they were.

YouTube- Dennis Green Goes Nuts (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDAq5tyfk9E)

That's funny every time I watch it! :D

Kid Azteca
12-23-2009, 01:18 AM
Hey, you come to a Chiefs forum bringing the Denver talk, you ain't gonna get respect...

Apparently I get more than you seeing as nobody came to your rescue.

Again, you brought up Denver. So when I asked you to explain your line of reasoning, you got all choked up with nothing to write but junior high insults- and that's fine really.

But when you spew baseless comments with no merit and don't even have the decency or knowledge to back them up you need to be called out on it. I did, you whined, and that was it.

So through all of this you STILL can't give me a logical explanation as to why the Broncos are a "quick fix" team.

Chiefster
12-23-2009, 01:21 AM
I love this thread! :lol:

Coach
12-23-2009, 01:23 AM
So through all of this you STILL can't give me a logical explanation as to why the Broncos are a "quick fix" team.

What the hell does that have to do with anything? Quick fix, slow fix? Who cares, they are exactly what people expected they would be this year. The worst move they made was firing Shanahan. The best move they made was trading Cutler for picks.

They are rebuilding like every team in the west minus the bolts. That is what we all expected.

honda522
12-23-2009, 01:26 AM
Apparently I get more than you seeing as nobody came to your rescue.

Again, you brought up Denver. So when I asked you to explain your line of reasoning, you got all choked up with nothing to write but junior high insults- and that's fine really.

But when you spew baseless comments with no merit and don't even have the decency or knowledge to back them up you need to be called out on it. I did, you whined, and that was it.

So through all of this you STILL can't give me a logical explanation as to why the Broncos are a "quick fix" team.
I have told you why, you don't want to listen. Now I am done buying into your games...the reason no one hasn't backed me up, is cause they don't care. But if they did, I am sure they agree with me. Some may even agree with me and choice not to reply.

Good bye.

Chiefster
12-23-2009, 01:28 AM
What the hell does that have to do with anything? Quick fix, slow fix? Who cares, they are exactly what people expected they would be this year. The worst move they made was firing Shanahan. The best move they made was trading Cutler for picks.

They are rebuilding like every team in the west minus the bolts. That is what we all expected.

Yup! Only difference is that they're in the play-off hunt...this year.

Kid Azteca
12-23-2009, 01:34 AM
...They are rebuilding like every team in the west minus the bolts. That is what we all expected.

That's the point. A rebuilding team "knows" they are multiple players away from where they want to be such as Denver and Kansas City.

A "quick fix" team such as The Redskins go out of their way to bring in high priced free agents to fill one spot despite the fact they need numerous spots to address.

So my argument with KIA 267 is that Denver is in no way, shape or form-anywhere near a Redskins type organization.

Call us s****y, call us lame, call us Donkey's, call us whatever you like but don't ever refer to us as a Daniel Snyder type franchise.

With all due respect of course.

Coach
12-23-2009, 01:44 AM
That's the point. A rebuilding team "knows" they are multiple players away from where they want to be such as Denver and Kansas City.

A "quick fix" team such as The Redskins go out of their way to bring in high priced free agents to fill one spot despite the fact they need numerous spots to address.

So my argument with KIA 267 is that Denver is in no way, shape or form-anywhere near a Redskins type organization.

Call us s****y, call us lame, call us Donkey's, call us whatever you like but don't ever refer to us as a Daniel Snyder type franchise.

With all due respect of course.

And as luck would have it, the Redskins are courting the coach that Denver ran out of town. As much as I hated Shanahan, you would never hear me argue that he wasn't a talented coach.

I'm still not really sure what the point of your argument is, but I agree that the Broncos are not the Redskins.

Kid Azteca
12-23-2009, 01:45 AM
Fair enough.

Ryfo18
12-23-2009, 03:03 AM
I'll admit it, the Broncos are much further ahead than the Chiefs in their rebuilding process. Their defense is better, their Oline is great, and they have solid talent at the skill positions. You guys are also getting a very solid first rounder courtesy of the Bears (should be a top 10 pick). Azteca is right, the Broncos aren't a quick fix. Shanahan didn't leave the team in shambles like Herm did on his way out.

Most people on this board won't openly admit that. But as much as I hate our division rivals, we have 1-2 more years before we can be at their level. But when we do, you guys better watch out!

Chiefster
12-23-2009, 03:15 AM
I'll admit it, the Broncos are much further ahead than the Chiefs in their rebuilding process. Their defense is better, their Oline is great, and they have solid talent at the skill positions. You guys are also getting a very solid first rounder courtesy of the Bears (should be a top 10 pick). Azteca is right, the Broncos aren't a quick fix. Shanahan didn't leave the team in shambles like Herm did on his way out.

Most people on this board won't openly admit that. But as much as I hate our division rivals, we have 1-2 more years before we can be at their level. But when we do, you guys better watch out!

Nicely put!

Canada
12-23-2009, 09:02 AM
Lol, you must enjoy one sided beatdowns.

An internet beatdown? :pointlaugh:


nothing to write but junior high insults.

Who's in jr high?

#58ChiefsFan
12-23-2009, 07:47 PM
I have told you why, you don't want to listen. Now I am done buying into your games...the reason no one hasn't backed me up, is cause they don't care. But if they did, I am sure they agree with me. Some may even agree with me and choice not to reply.

Good bye.

This.

Good luck with your own team but we have enough problems here right now.

chiefan
12-24-2009, 01:52 AM
We were really a 6-7 win team last season, but our coach sucked and our record suffered as a result! You think with an offseason we would have improved to a 8-9 caliber team, but our coach sucked and our record suffered as a result!

Todd Haley needs to realize everyone on the roster are all "his guys" and he needs to control his hot head temper a little more so FA's will want to come to KC to play for us. And he needs to stop making stupid decisions like starting LJ since day 1, and cutting Pollard.

Win you only win 3 games at this stage, I don't care what your situation is, your a bad coach. The media, fans, players, and staff all had higher expectations. We failed to meet them. And a team's record is generally a representation of its coaching staff, or generally the head coach.

WE LOST TO BUFFALO AND CLEVELAND FOR CHRIST SAKE. SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE.

Your argument that we shouldn't fire him just because we recently fired Herm is inept. We don't just let a man keep his job if he is failing at it.

Ryfo18
12-24-2009, 02:35 AM
We were really a 6-7 win team last season, but our coach sucked and our record suffered as a result! You think with an offseason we would have improved to a 8-9 caliber team, but our coach sucked and our record suffered as a result!

Todd Haley needs to realize everyone on the roster are all "his guys" and he needs to control his hot head temper a little more so FA's will want to come to KC to play for us. And he needs to stop making stupid decisions like starting LJ since day 1, and cutting Pollard.

Win you only win 3 games at this stage, I don't care what your situation is, your a bad coach. The media, fans, players, and staff all had higher expectations. We failed to meet them. And a team's record is generally a representation of its coaching staff, or generally the head coach.

WE LOST TO BUFFALO AND CLEVELAND FOR CHRIST SAKE. SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE.

Your argument that we shouldn't fire him just because we recently fired Herm is inept. We don't just let a man keep his job if he is failing at it.

I did not have the expectations of 8-9 wins this season. The Chiefs have a roster consisting of guys who would be practice squad guys for other teams.

I'm not saying that Haley shouldn't be held accountable, by all means he should. But I think if you would expect any coach to come in here and win 8-9 games with the personnel on this team, you're reaching.

Maybe using the Chiefs is a bad example, since we're all fans. But if Bill Cowher would have been the head coach of the Lions this year, would you magically expect them to win 8-9 games? Definitely not. On the other hand, could Todd Haley walk into Indianapolis and still be on the verge of a 16-0 season? That's definitely not out of the question.

The pieces are just beginning to be put in place. Championship franchises are not built overnight, or by hiring a certain coach. Haley has great ideas for this team, and he wants to win above all. The Chiefs are beginning to learn their identity under Haley, it's just not translating to wins yet. Give the guy a chance in the offseason to get some better personnel via the draft and free agency. I think 6-7 wins next year is very positive step in the right direction. If you throw out a coach after his first year and think that bringing someone else in with a completely different philosophy is better for the franchise, I think you're mistaken. The losing will continue if we get into this repetitive cycle of hiring and firing every couple of years.

matthewschiefs
12-24-2009, 11:44 AM
We were really a 6-7 win team last season, but our coach sucked and our record suffered as a result! You think with an offseason we would have improved to a 8-9 caliber team, but our coach sucked and our record suffered as a result!

Todd Haley needs to realize everyone on the roster are all "his guys" and he needs to control his hot head temper a little more so FA's will want to come to KC to play for us. And he needs to stop making stupid decisions like starting LJ since day 1, and cutting Pollard.

Win you only win 3 games at this stage, I don't care what your situation is, your a bad coach. The media, fans, players, and staff all had higher expectations. We failed to meet them. And a team's record is generally a representation of its coaching staff, or generally the head coach.

WE LOST TO BUFFALO AND CLEVELAND FOR CHRIST SAKE. SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE.

Your argument that we shouldn't fire him just because we recently fired Herm is inept. We don't just let a man keep his job if he is failing at it.

Starting LJ I belive was the RIGHT choice at the time. Why? Fumbles! Todd haley CAN ONLY go by what he saw. In the preseaon Charles fumbled about once a game. IF a guy is fumbleing in the preseason why should you think that problem will magicly go away. Haley did not cut Charles and gave him time to work on that problem. Charles has a few fumbles this year and thats something he is going to have to keep working on for next season. But LJ IMO was the right choice at the time. Did he work out no but you cant put your team at risk of a high turnover mark when you dont realy have a lot of talent on your team.

Pollard is a thing we will never no. We dont no what his numbers would have been if he was on this team. He is not exacley haveing a pro bowl year in Houston. Hes had a couple of nice games but you can not say that he would have had those games in KC. Simpley put he would not have the same talent around him. Who nos why Pollard was cut. Haley and Pioli dont go around giveing that kind of info to the media. Maybe something happend in the locker room and he HAD TO be cut we dont no. We are not in the locker room. But its not like he was a sure hall of famer that got cut in his prime. I realy dont think that was as big of a deal as some made it out to be.

As for loseing to Cleveland and Buffalo. Thats nothing new either. We got BLOWN OUT at home last year agaist the bills. And cleveland won the last meating with the Chiefs as well. Its not like we were tearing it up till haley go here. Theres a reason the Herm was fired. Theres a reason carl was fired i mean resigned. This is not scott Piolis mess. This is not todd haleys mess. Give them both time they might just work out. If not then we will once again have to start over but the potental upside is to good to ignore. Starting over again when you have not realy given a new head coach a chance is not going to do you any favors. GO CHIEFS!!!!

honda522
12-24-2009, 03:44 PM
WE LOST TO BUFFALO AND CLEVELAND FOR CHRIST SAKE. SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE.

.
Was that really a shocker to anyone? This team has been in shambles. I think we all knew that Cleavland and Buffalo would beat us. The Bills beat us last year 54 -31 I think. We have only gotten worse, but hopefully we will rebound next season. Or in the next 2 games.

Kid Azteca
12-24-2009, 04:33 PM
honda522- "Ok, here is what I truly think. Chiefs - 35 Browns - 10
I seriously think so, the Browns have almost no talent..."

"We can do it, I know it, Cleavland is a terrible team..."

"I think we all knew that Cleavland and Buffalo would beat us."



Lol. So which is it?

chiefan
12-25-2009, 03:52 PM
Was that really a shocker to anyone? This team has been in shambles. I think we all knew that Cleavland and Buffalo would beat us. The Bills beat us last year 54 -31 I think. We have only gotten worse, but hopefully we will rebound next season. Or in the next 2 games.

I guarantee you if we had a different coach we would of won. Depending on the coach.

Coach
12-25-2009, 04:02 PM
I did not have the expectations of 8-9 wins this season. The Chiefs have a roster consisting of guys who would be practice squad guys for other teams.

I'm not saying that Haley shouldn't be held accountable, by all means he should. But I think if you would expect any coach to come in here and win 8-9 games with the personnel on this team, you're reaching.

Maybe using the Chiefs is a bad example, since we're all fans. But if Bill Cowher would have been the head coach of the Lions this year, would you magically expect them to win 8-9 games? Definitely not. On the other hand, could Todd Haley walk into Indianapolis and still be on the verge of a 16-0 season? That's definitely not out of the question.

The pieces are just beginning to be put in place. Championship franchises are not built overnight, or by hiring a certain coach. Haley has great ideas for this team, and he wants to win above all. The Chiefs are beginning to learn their identity under Haley, it's just not translating to wins yet. Give the guy a chance in the offseason to get some better personnel via the draft and free agency. I think 6-7 wins next year is very positive step in the right direction. If you throw out a coach after his first year and think that bringing someone else in with a completely different philosophy is better for the franchise, I think you're mistaken. The losing will continue if we get into this repetitive cycle of hiring and firing every couple of years.


Rep added. Read this if you skipped over it.


Starting LJ I belive was the RIGHT choice at the time. Why? Fumbles! Todd haley CAN ONLY go by what he saw. In the preseaon Charles fumbled about once a game. IF a guy is fumbleing in the preseason why should you think that problem will magicly go away. Haley did not cut Charles and gave him time to work on that problem. Charles has a few fumbles this year and thats something he is going to have to keep working on for next season. But LJ IMO was the right choice at the time. Did he work out no but you cant put your team at risk of a high turnover mark when you dont realy have a lot of talent on your team.

Pollard is a thing we will never no. We dont no what his numbers would have been if he was on this team. He is not exacley haveing a pro bowl year in Houston. Hes had a couple of nice games but you can not say that he would have had those games in KC. Simpley put he would not have the same talent around him. Who nos why Pollard was cut. Haley and Pioli dont go around giveing that kind of info to the media. Maybe something happend in the locker room and he HAD TO be cut we dont no. We are not in the locker room. But its not like he was a sure hall of famer that got cut in his prime. I realy dont think that was as big of a deal as some made it out to be.

As for loseing to Cleveland and Buffalo. Thats nothing new either. We got BLOWN OUT at home last year agaist the bills. And cleveland won the last meating with the Chiefs as well. Its not like we were tearing it up till haley go here. Theres a reason the Herm was fired. Theres a reason carl was fired i mean resigned. This is not scott Piolis mess. This is not todd haleys mess. Give them both time they might just work out. If not then we will once again have to start over but the potental upside is to good to ignore. Starting over again when you have not realy given a new head coach a chance is not going to do you any favors. GO CHIEFS!!!!
great post.

okikcfan
12-25-2009, 10:48 PM
I guarantee you if we had a different coach we would of won. Depending on the coach.I like that, we would have won depending on the coach, lol:pointlaugh: