I would hate to feel this way....

[honda522]

From listening to the game from work, yeah I got ripped off, D Bowe had alot of drops. Every time I went by the radio, I heard Mitch saying Bowe dropping the ball.

I am getting sick of the drops, just as everyone else. Why don't we put our selves out of misery?

I propose we trade Bowe. He is obviously no value to this team, maybe other than the fact that he helps take the double team....

Either way, if we can get a third or forth round draft pick and pick up someone who actually wants to come out and play some football.

Imagine the field goals we could of had all this year. Imaigine the wins. Not saying he is the cause of all the problems, but it might be a start. I love D Bowe, but he doesn't look like he is playing with his heart.

Who knows though...maybe its just the coaching staff.

[Chief Tyler]

From listening to the game from work, yeah I got ripped off, D Bowe had alot of drops. Every time I went by the radio, I heard Mitch saying Bowe dropping the ball.

I am getting sick of the drops, just as everyone else. Why don't we put our selves out of misery?

I propose we trade Bowe. He is obviously no value to this team, maybe other than the fact that he helps take the double team....

Either way, if we can get a third or forth round draft pick and pick up someone who actually wants to come out and play some football.

Imagine the field goals we could of had all this year. Imaigine the wins. Not saying he is the cause of all the problems, but it might be a start. I love D Bowe, but he doesn't look like he is playing with his heart.

Who knows though...maybe its just the coaching staff.

Bowe had 2 drops from what I saw in the game (though through much of it, it wasn't getting my full attention), and one of them would have been a very nice catch, and by no means routine. He also made a case as to why he should be on this team. He was aware enough to extend for a crucial first down on 3rd and long, getting there by maybe the length of the football. He made a few more catches where he bailed Cassel out of a couple bad throws.

I vote to give him another year or two and see what he becomes. He's got 2 years left on his contract so he should have a little more incentive to play, and by that time hopefully we have a team around him so that might want to stay in Kansas City as a playoff contender.

[SIC J]

Didn't you just say in another thread that you didn't even watch the game?

[Chief Tyler]

Didn't you just say in another thread that you didn't even watch the game?

I watched until Cincy scored on that 98 yard drive and listened to the rest on the way to/at work.

I might say it, but it's a lie. Win or lose, I can't get enough Chiefs.

[SIC J]

I watched until Cincy scored on that 98 yard drive and listened to the rest on the way to/at work.

I might say it, but it's a lie. Win or lose, I can't get enough Chiefs.

Sorry, I was referring to Honda522.

[honda522]

Didn't you just say in another thread that you didn't even watch the game?
Do you even read?

The very first thing I typed..
From listening to the game from work

[SIC J]

Do you even read?

The very first thing I typed..

Do you even pay attention to what you type?

In the LJ vs Kansas City thread you "I didn't actually get to watch the game". So trying to justify Bowe having all these dropped passes by listening to the commentators is plain retarded. They may say "Bowe dropped a pass" but it could've been a pass Bowe had to dive 5 feet for or a pass that got deflected out of his hands. They don't give you details about what is actually occurring.

And like Chief Tyler said, he had 2 from what he saw.

So again, KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU POST. Seems like all you do is talk out of your a$$ all the time.

Why don't you go to the Bengals forum and brag about how the Chiefs stopped LJ so they can all make fun of you about how they won the game.

[honda522]

Do you even pay attention to what you type?

In the LJ vs Kansas City thread you "I didn't actually get to watch the game". So trying to justify Bowe having all these dropped passes by listening to the commentators is plain retarded. They may say "Bowe dropped a pass" but it could've been a pass Bowe had to dive 5 feet for or a pass that got deflected out of his hands. They don't give you details about what is actually occurring.

And like Chief Tyler said, he had 2 from what he saw.

So again, KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU POST. Seems like all you do is talk out of your a$$ all the time.

Why don't you go to the Bengals forum and brag about how the Chiefs stopped LJ so they can all make fun of you about how they won the game.
Dude, forget you...I'm just going to ignore all your post.

[drstandley31]

I was there. Although I may have missed a few plays, I saw two dropped passes, neigher one was Bowe. Chambers had one bounce off his arms, which looked to be a tough catch but that's what he's paid for, the other was a big pass across the middle to Charles. All in all, I think the bungles had more dropped passes. But I did get up to get a beer and pee, so maybe I missed one or two.

[AussieChiefsFan]

Bowe had 2 drops from what I saw in the game (though through much of it, it wasn't getting my full attention), and one of them would have been a very nice catch, and by no means routine. He also made a case as to why he should be on this team. He was aware enough to extend for a crucial first down on 3rd and long, getting there by maybe the length of the football. He made a few more catches where he bailed Cassel out of a couple bad throws.

I vote to give him another year or two and see what he becomes. He's got 2 years left on his contract so he should have a little more incentive to play, and by that time hopefully we have a team around him so that might want to stay in Kansas City as a playoff contender.
I think Bowe should get another year. He could turn out to be a good player.

[fairladyZ]

Bowe had a good game for the most part. He did drop one pass that was right on his hands but that was really the only real drop he had.

The one i'm upset about was the pick where he could have easily tried to 1 hand catch the ball but instead put his hands down in fear of getting hit and let the safetly pick it off.

[Chiefster]

Dude, forget you...I'm just going to ignore all your post.

Among the most intelligent things I've yet to read in this thread.

Good job. :D

[honda522]

Among the most intelligent things I've yet to read in this thread.

Good job. :D
Well when people try to argue with you and piss you, the best thing to do is hit the ignore.

[Connie Jo]

I think Bowe has talent & will improve with NOT dropping passes, making more tough catches. Possibly the dropped passes are simply his still being 'young & restless', or even rusty with his suspension. There's a huge difference with practicing, and playing in a live game with adreneline pumping.

I'm with Chief Tyler...wait it out, see what he can or can't do by the end of another season or two. Not sure how true it is, but I've heard the so called 'experts', say that typically it can take 5 seasons in the NFL for a rookie to develop fully in talent and skill...in most all positions.

[Ryfo18]

Good idea, let's ditch Bowe. We can always take our chances in the draft on getting a fresh rookie that has never played a snap in the NFL.

The alternatives to Bowe are not as good as what we will get for him. We're not going to be able and go trade for a Wayne/A. Johnson/B. Marshall type. You're talking about elite WRs, and Bowe is in a category just below them. He's still a fantastic NFL WR.

Take a look at any target report. Bowe had 12 targets yesterday and caught 9 of them (75% catch percentage). Look at how other top WRs performed from yesterday:

R. White - 8 rec on 14 targets (57%)
B. Marshall - 8 rec. on 13 targets (62%)
C. Johnson - 7 rec. on 12 targets (58%)
A. Boldin - 8 rec. on 10 targets (80%)
L. Fitzgerald - 5 rec. on 10 targets (50%)
A. Johnson - 5 rec. on 7 targets (71%)

(not a top WR but interesting stat)
C. Chambers - 3 rec. on 10 targets (30%)

The fact of the matter is that Bowe is getting open and making the most of when the ball is thrown to him. Trading him would be foolish. A team that is severely lacking top NFL talent should not be trading away it's best players. The Chiefs do not need to turn into the Royals of the NFL.

[figcrostic]

I think Bowe should get another year. He could turn out to be a good player.

He is already good, if he holds onto the ball a little better, and gets a more catch-able ball thrown to him he will be great. When Bowe gets the ball he is very hard to tackle, that's one of the reason he is, so damn good if he was just a little more consistent he would be top 5.

[figcrostic]

Good idea, let's ditch Bowe. We can always take our chances in the draft on getting a fresh rookie that has never played a snap in the NFL.

The alternatives to Bowe are not as good as what we will get for him. We're not going to be able and go trade for a Wayne/A. Johnson/B. Marshall type. You're talking about elite WRs, and Bowe is in a category just below them. He's still a fantastic NFL WR.

Take a look at any target report. Bowe had 12 targets yesterday and caught 9 of them (75% catch percentage). Look at how other top WRs performed from yesterday:

R. White - 8 rec on 14 targets (57%)
B. Marshall - 8 rec. on 13 targets (62%)
C. Johnson - 7 rec. on 12 targets (58%)
A. Boldin - 8 rec. on 10 targets (80%)
L. Fitzgerald - 5 rec. on 10 targets (50%)
A. Johnson - 5 rec. on 7 targets (71%)

(not a top WR but interesting stat)
C. Chambers - 3 rec. on 10 targets (30%)

The fact of the matter is that Bowe is getting open and making the most of when the ball is thrown to him. Trading him would be foolish. A team that is severely lacking top NFL talent should not be trading away it's best players. The Chiefs do not need to turn into the Royals of the NFL.

Those stats are really deceiving, just because you get thrown to doesn't mean it was a good throw. Chambers had some bad throws his way, but Bowe should be kept he is a good receiver. He just needs some help from his QB, and needs to work on his hands a little. Other then that he is really good.

[Ryfo18]

Those stats are really deceiving, just because you get thrown to doesn't mean it was a good throw. Chambers had some bad throws his way, but Bowe should be kept he is a good receiver. He just needs some help from his QB, and needs to work on his hands a little. Other then that he is really good.

I agree they are deceiving, but nevertheless it still says something about the combination of:

1.) Bad throws by the QB
2.) A WR's ability to run good routes and get open
3.) A WR's ability to catch balls in traffic.

I'm not trying to put Chambers down either, he did have some bad balls thrown to him downfield. I'm more making a case for keeping Bowe.

[Seek]

Do you even pay attention to what you type?

In the LJ vs Kansas City thread you "I didn't actually get to watch the game". So trying to justify Bowe having all these dropped passes by listening to the commentators is plain retarded. They may say "Bowe dropped a pass" but it could've been a pass Bowe had to dive 5 feet for or a pass that got deflected out of his hands. They don't give you details about what is actually occurring.

And like Chief Tyler said, he had 2 from what he saw.

So again, KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT BEFORE YOU POST. Seems like all you do is talk out of your a$$ all the time.

Why don't you go to the Bengals forum and brag about how the Chiefs stopped LJ so they can all make fun of you about how they won the game.

Seriously, You need to take a breather fom the rivalry you have with Honda... I watched the game and NO Bowe did not have to dive 5 yards. It hit him square in the hands.

In your attempt to completely rag on a guy, you completely took something FACTUAL as a plainly out drop and twisted in anyway to make a person look stupid.

The hatred on this forum is getting high, and plain people who come hear to still follow this team read nothing but constant slamming of other Chiefs fans. It is getting old and your are slowly ruining the forum.

I have no friendship with Honda, fact I think I disagree with him or her more times than none.

However, the fact remains. Bowe is towards the top in dropped passes, and I do think it will be a topic in the off season.

[Seek]

Well when people try to argue with you and piss you, the best thing to do is hit the ignore.

It is very annoying to read as well.

[honda522]

Good idea, let's ditch Bowe. We can always take our chances in the draft on getting a fresh rookie that has never played a snap in the NFL.

The alternatives to Bowe are not as good as what we will get for him. We're not going to be able and go trade for a Wayne/A. Johnson/B. Marshall type. You're talking about elite WRs, and Bowe is in a category just below them. He's still a fantastic NFL WR.

Take a look at any target report. Bowe had 12 targets yesterday and caught 9 of them (75% catch percentage). Look at how other top WRs performed from yesterday:

R. White - 8 rec on 14 targets (57%)
B. Marshall - 8 rec. on 13 targets (62%)
C. Johnson - 7 rec. on 12 targets (58%)
A. Boldin - 8 rec. on 10 targets (80%)
L. Fitzgerald - 5 rec. on 10 targets (50%)
A. Johnson - 5 rec. on 7 targets (71%)

(not a top WR but interesting stat)
C. Chambers - 3 rec. on 10 targets (30%)

The fact of the matter is that Bowe is getting open and making the most of when the ball is thrown to him. Trading him would be foolish. A team that is severely lacking top NFL talent should not be trading away it's best players. The Chiefs do not need to turn into the Royals of the NFL.

Interesting facts. But I didn't say cut him, I said trade him, so we could have value. Trading him we would either another player or a draft pick. Or maybe multiple draft picks.

Like I said, I wonder if he just doesn't care about being a Chief. Why force a guy to play for a team he doesn't like?

I am just saying if he keeps dropping passes that are in his hands he is not really worth keeping.

[kilobytes]

I have noticed Bowe playing with less heart this year. He is like sad and not like the last two years. hmmmmmmmm

[fairladyZ]

i would GLADLY give up bowe for a. boldin. Would that happen? meh prolly not maybe the only reason would be arizona could not sign boldin to a huge contract and maybe sign bowe for a smaller contract than boldin.

I'm fine with keeping bowe i like bowe alot. But it is a love hate sometimes he just doesn't seem to have the heart he should.

[Pro_Angler]

I say Bowe did much better he had some crappy balls come his way, but not his fault they werent caught, wade did most the dropping this game and that one other guy dropped like 3.

[Pro_Angler]

Interesting facts. But I didn't say cut him, I said trade him, so we could have value. Trading him we would either another player or a draft pick. Or maybe multiple draft picks.

Like I said, I wonder if he just doesn't care about being a Chief. Why force a guy to play for a team he doesn't like?

I am just saying if he keeps dropping passes that are in his hands he is not really worth keeping.


sadly Bowe has very litle trade value maybe a 2nd..maybe

[Ryfo18]

Interesting facts. But I didn't say cut him, I said trade him, so we could have value. Trading him we would either another player or a draft pick. Or maybe multiple draft picks.

Like I said, I wonder if he just doesn't care about being a Chief. Why force a guy to play for a team he doesn't like?

I am just saying if he keeps dropping passes that are in his hands he is not really worth keeping.

It's going to be very tough to get back what you are trading. A team that is already thin at WR, our #3 WR is different every week, should not be trading their best WR. You act like all of the other Chiefs aren't dropping the ball either.

[honda522]

It's going to be very tough to get back what you are trading. A team that is already thin at WR, our #3 WR is different every week, should not be trading their best WR. You act like all of the other Chiefs aren't dropping the ball either.
Yea, but Bowe is a first round pick. The rest are scrubs, expect Chambers.

4th round. Danario Alexander - Mizzou.

[texaschief]

From listening to the game from work, yeah I got ripped off, D Bowe had alot of drops. Every time I went by the radio, I heard Mitch saying Bowe dropping the ball.

I am getting sick of the drops, just as everyone else. Why don't we put our selves out of misery?

I propose we trade Bowe. He is obviously no value to this team, maybe other than the fact that he helps take the double team....

Either way, if we can get a third or forth round draft pick and pick up someone who actually wants to come out and play some football.

Imagine the field goals we could of had all this year. Imaigine the wins. Not saying he is the cause of all the problems, but it might be a start. I love D Bowe, but he doesn't look like he is playing with his heart.

Who knows though...maybe its just the coaching staff.

... getting rid of our best players... is that you Mr. golf coach? cuz that kinda sounds like something a golf coach would do... cut a guy who's made a few mistakes.

Anyone think we could get Cutler from Chicago after his 27 INT season?

[matthewschiefs]

... getting rid of our best players... is that you Mr. golf coach? cuz that kinda sounds like something a golf coach would do... cut a guy who's made a few mistakes.

Anyone think we could get Cutler from Chicago after his 27 INT season?

I would rather stick with The QB that we have then go with Cutler. I have never thought highly of the guy. He turns the ball over way to much. And he does not have the best attiude. It might just be that hes a former donkey to.

[KristofLaw]

I would rather stick with The QB that we have then go with Cutler. I have never thought highly of the guy. He turns the ball over way to much. And he does not have the best attiude. It might just be that hes a former donkey to.

Plus he looks kinda dopey IMO. :11:

[Seek]

... getting rid of our best players... is that you Mr. golf coach? cuz that kinda sounds like something a golf coach would do... cut a guy who's made a few mistakes.

Anyone think we could get Cutler from Chicago after his 27 INT season?

He isn't even close to our best player. He has the potential to be the best player, but his lack of work ethic and selfish attitude has him among leaders in dropped passes, with a four game suspension.

J. Morton has better years than D. Bowe. He certainly had less drops.

[honda522]

... getting rid of our best players... is that you Mr. golf coach? cuz that kinda sounds like something a golf coach would do... cut a guy who's made a few mistakes.

Anyone think we could get Cutler from Chicago after his 27 INT season?
First of all, you have the wrong coach.

Second of all if I wanted to be that coach, I would say he, lets trade Brandon Flowers, and while were are at it, lets trade Jamaal Charles. Maybe we can get back LJ while were at it.

D Bowe is not our best player. He has potential but how many years are we going to have to wait?
Maybe I am just too impatient for him to be good. He should be scoring the TD's and having about 80-100 yards receiving a game, unless we run the ball.

[Hayvern]

I have noticed Bowe playing with less heart this year. He is like sad and not like the last two years. hmmmmmmmm

Yeah, I am sure all that screaming by the head coach makes him feel uplifted and positive to go out and win for him on Sunday.

[Hayvern]

Look, here it is in a nutshell.

Bowe has had a knock for a while about dropping passes. Last season, he was near the top with 13 dropped passes, only right ahead of Brandon Marshall who had 12.

The fact is that dropped passes have been the register for this entire team this season. It is not just Bowe, it is everyone, yes, even Chambers.

Here is the thing that I do not understand though, Haley was a Wide Recievers coach for 11 years in this league 5 years for the Jets, 2 years for the Bears and 2 Years for the Cowboys. You cannot tell me that this is the first time he has ever seen a problem with players dropping passes.

He has to know a thing or two about it, I expect him to fix it, one way or another, this is entirely unacceptable and Haley needs to correct this problem.

[Canada]

Yeah, I am sure all that screaming by the head coach makes him feel uplifted and positive to go out and win for him on Sunday.

awww...does the poor little girl cry when she gets yelled at? Don't drop the ball and you won't get yelled at. These aren't little kids anymore, they get paid millions to catch a football, why shouldn't they catch some sh!t when they drop it?

[Chiefster]

awww...does the poor little girl cry when she gets yelled at? Don't drop the ball and you won't get yelled at. These aren't little kids anymore, they get paid millions to catch a football, why shouldn't they catch some sh!t when they drop it?

:lol: That, too, is a good point.

[Connie Jo]

Yeah, I am sure all that screaming by the head coach makes him feel uplifted and positive to go out and win for him on Sunday.

I had the same thought when I read the other posters note he hasn't been playing with the same heart. Well, his coach is on his a** hard, the fans are on his a** booing him when he misses, but yet when he does catch one neither note it with the same level of significance as when he misses...a bit of an unfair double standard really.

He could be upset over the suspension too, humilated a bit...I dunno. Still, he's dealing with a lot at once upon his shoulders. Yeah, it's the NFL, and he get's paid to carry the weight, but he's also human.

[Connie Jo]

awww...does the poor little girl cry when she gets yelled at? Don't drop the ball and you won't get yelled at. These aren't little kids anymore, they get paid millions to catch a football, why shouldn't they catch some sh!t when they drop it?

I agree, but the problem I have, and of which I noticed at the Browns game...is when Bowe does make a good catch, he's not given the same level of recognition for it as when he misses, by the fans or coach Haley.

A pat on the back for doing something right, by comparison to being screamed at in front of fans, peers, on TV...for doing something wrong...seem's to have the scales off balance. It's gotta be disheartening when you do something right, it more or less goes un-noted, but when you do something wrong...you're screamed at and booed.

I'm not sure I'd want to give it my best effort if in his shoes...most would have a natural human reaction to such repeated pattern, and naturally develop a 'why bother' attitude in any career or job, or life position...kid, parent, etc..

[honda522]

I agree, but the problem I have, and of which I noticed at the Browns game...is when Bowe does make a good catch, he's not given the same level of recognition for it as when he misses, by the fans or coach Haley.

A pat on the back for doing something right, by comparison to being screamed at in front of fans, peers, on TV...for doing something wrong...seem's to have the scales off balance. It's gotta be disheartening when you do something right, it more or less goes un-noted, but when you do something wrong...you're screamed at and booed.

I'm not sure I'd want to give it my best effort if in his shoes...most would have a natural human reaction to such repeated pattern, and naturally develop a 'why bother' attitude in any career or job, or life position...kid, parent, etc..

I totaly agree with this.

[SIC J]

I agree, but the problem I have, and of which I noticed at the Browns game...is when Bowe does make a good catch, he's not given the same level of recognition for it as when he misses, by the fans or coach Haley.

A pat on the back for doing something right, by comparison to being screamed at in front of fans, peers, on TV...for doing something wrong...seem's to have the scales off balance. It's gotta be disheartening when you do something right, it more or less goes un-noted, but when you do something wrong...you're screamed at and booed.

I'm not sure I'd want to give it my best effort if in his shoes...most would have a natural human reaction to such repeated pattern, and naturally develop a 'why bother' attitude in any career or job, or life position...kid, parent, etc..

Or maybe thats why he has that so-called "selfish" attitude everyone complains about. I bet he's laughing at everyone all the way to the bank.

Problem is, people tend to only remember what someone does wrong rather than what they do right. I personally think he's one of the best players on this team. And if the Chiefs lose him, they'll be getting set back once again.

[Ryfo18]

Or maybe thats why he has that so-called "selfish" attitude everyone complains about. I bet he's laughing at everyone all the way to the bank.

Problem is, people tend to only remember what someone does wrong rather than what they do right. I personally think he's one of the best players on this team. And if the Chiefs lose him, they'll be getting set back once again.

Exactly, Rep added.

[Hayvern]

awww...does the poor little girl cry when she gets yelled at? Don't drop the ball and you won't get yelled at. These aren't little kids anymore, they get paid millions to catch a football, why shouldn't they catch some sh!t when they drop it?

No I agree, he is making a lot of money to catch the ball and he needs to grow up and get over it, but some support and encouragment, and oh, I don't know, maybe a little freaking COACHING might help?

Then again, maybe he is a worthless piece of crap and should be bagging groceries at the local supermarket!
:drunkhb:

[SIC J]

I don't understand why people keep saying he needs to be coached. Is there some special way to catch a football? LOL. I mean seriously, you use your hands. I learned the concept when I was like 2. You can either catch a ball or you can't.

[Hayvern]

I don't understand why people keep saying he needs to be coached. Is there some special way to catch a football? LOL. I mean seriously, you use your hands. I learned the concept when I was like 2. You can either catch a ball or you can't.

Wow, it is that simple? Then I would think more people could do it.

Look, it is more to it than that, yeah, it seems simple, catch the ball, of course, that is all there is to it, never mind the 225 pound line backer that is about to flatten your ***, or how about that cornerback that is about to jump your route, how do you deal with him? Or how about just remembering where you are supposed to be when the ball is thrown? How about not looking for the ball until you are supposed to be looking for it, to keep that defender guessing?

Oh, and never mind the fact that there is only about, what 125 - 150 plays that you have to remember from jargon like Streak89Left2?

You see, those are all things that have to go through your head as you are getting ready for the play, then of course, after you sort out all of that, then you have to do that one simple thing. Catch the ball.

Besides, I guarantee you did not just learn to catch the ball at two, you had someone there to coach you. I am sure your daddy threw you the ball real softly and said something like "Com'n little Sic J, use both hands, catch the ball"

Yeah, no coaching needed!

:lamende:

[SIC J]

Wow, it is that simple? Then I would think more people could do it.

Look, it is more to it than that, yeah, it seems simple, catch the ball, of course, that is all there is to it, never mind the 225 pound line backer that is about to flatten your ***, or how about that cornerback that is about to jump your route, how do you deal with him? Or how about just remembering where you are supposed to be when the ball is thrown? How about not looking for the ball until you are supposed to be looking for it, to keep that defender guessing?

Oh, and never mind the fact that there is only about, what 125 - 150 plays that you have to remember from jargon like Streak89Left2?

You see, those are all things that have to go through your head as you are getting ready for the play, then of course, after you sort out all of that, then you have to do that one simple thing. Catch the ball.

Besides, I guarantee you did not just learn to catch the ball at two, you had someone there to coach you. I am sure your daddy threw you the ball real softly and said something like "Com'n little Sic J, use both hands, catch the ball"

Yeah, no coaching needed!

:lamende:

What the hell does that have to do with Bowe. His problem is physically CATCHING the ball and hanging onto it. No one here has EVER mentioned anything else you said but CATCHING THE BALL. His issue is not running routes, learning plays, looking for the ball at the right time, etc. Its simply CATCHING THE BALL.

[Bike]

What the hell does that have to do with Bowe. His problem is physically CATCHING the ball and hanging onto it. No one here has EVER mentioned anything else you said but CATCHING THE BALL. His issue is not running routes, learning plays, looking for the ball at the right time, etc. Its simply CATCHING THE BALL.
His issue IS running routes. I am utterly shocked when Bowe runs anything BUT a sideline pattern.

[nosebleed34]

Dwayne Bowe has not been good this year and I found the stats from last year... turns out that he had the second most drops in the NFL last season with 13...

iWon - NFL League Stats (http://sports.iwon.com/nfl/stats/league/passesdropped.html)

[Canada]

I agree, but the problem I have, and of which I noticed at the Browns game...is when Bowe does make a good catch, he's not given the same level of recognition for it as when he misses, by the fans or coach Haley.

A pat on the back for doing something right, by comparison to being screamed at in front of fans, peers, on TV...for doing something wrong...seem's to have the scales off balance. It's gotta be disheartening when you do something right, it more or less goes un-noted, but when you do something wrong...you're screamed at and booed.

I'm not sure I'd want to give it my best effort if in his shoes...most would have a natural human reaction to such repeated pattern, and naturally develop a 'why bother' attitude in any career or job, or life position...kid, parent, etc..

ummmm....Im pretty sure that I jumped up and cheered every time Bowe causght a ball. Didn't you? How about Vern? How about Chiefster? How about every other member on these boards? I am sure we all cheer pretty damn hard when Bowe catches the ball. No one comes to my work and pats me on the back and holds my hand all day when I do my job right. But I will damn sure hear about it if I fu*k up. If Bowe feels underappreciated then maybe he should go to the payroll department and look at his pay stub and he will see how many KC fans support him. You can't use one game (the Browns game) as a measuring stick for how the fans treat the guy. I have heard a lot of cheers for Bowe so I think that he gets his share of encouragement as well as his fair share of sh!t. I am not speaking about Haley as I only really see what goes on for three hours on the field as opposed to what their relationship is all week. :bananen_smilies046:

[Seek]

I agree, but the problem I have, and of which I noticed at the Browns game...is when Bowe does make a good catch, he's not given the same level of recognition for it as when he misses, by the fans or coach Haley.

A pat on the back for doing something right, by comparison to being screamed at in front of fans, peers, on TV...for doing something wrong...seem's to have the scales off balance. It's gotta be disheartening when you do something right, it more or less goes un-noted, but when you do something wrong...you're screamed at and booed.

I'm not sure I'd want to give it my best effort if in his shoes...most would have a natural human reaction to such repeated pattern, and naturally develop a 'why bother' attitude in any career or job, or life position...kid, parent, etc..

The shoe fits.... I am 100% sure Todd Haley did NOT just decided to wake up hating D. Bowe one morning and decided to hold a grudge agaist D. Bowe. The guy had problems in the off season that got him demoted in an attempt to motivate D. Bowe to work harder at becoming the elite player we all think he could be.

You are all point the blame at the wrong person. Haley and TONY Gonzalez have tried to teach a strong work ethic to D. Bowe, yet D. Bowe continues to think he is a talent that needs no improvement.

As for Haley Yelling at people. Have you watched him since about the Pittsburgh Game.... He isn't yelling at the players like he was. In fact, I saw him yelling at Bobby Wade after making a catch Against Cincy and thought What is this about and then both smiled and gave each other a big High Five. He is an emotional coach, and while I thought he was chewing out Wade, he was praising him, even after their argument a couple weeks ago they are mending their differences.

Keep blaming Todd Haley, that is fine, but as far as I am concerned 100% of the problem is the immaturity and ego of one over paid Wr.

[Seek]

Wow, it is that simple? Then I would think more people could do it.

Look, it is more to it than that, yeah, it seems simple, catch the ball, of course, that is all there is to it, never mind the 225 pound line backer that is about to flatten your ***, or how about that cornerback that is about to jump your route, how do you deal with him? Or how about just remembering where you are supposed to be when the ball is thrown? How about not looking for the ball until you are supposed to be looking for it, to keep that defender guessing?

Oh, and never mind the fact that there is only about, what 125 - 150 plays that you have to remember from jargon like Streak89Left2?

You see, those are all things that have to go through your head as you are getting ready for the play, then of course, after you sort out all of that, then you have to do that one simple thing. Catch the ball.

Besides, I guarantee you did not just learn to catch the ball at two, you had someone there to coach you. I am sure your daddy threw you the ball real softly and said something like "Com'n little Sic J, use both hands, catch the ball"

Yeah, no coaching needed!

:lamende:

It is very simple. When you have extra time, have a Qb throw you the ball to work on catching the ball. Then have a QB throw you the ball as your are getting Hit. If I recall Hailey did make Bowe do all these things after demoting him to third stringer or failing to do these things right.

The problem is not the coach. It is the player who refused to work harder..

[chief31]

awww...does the poor little girl cry when she gets yelled at? Don't drop the ball and you won't get yelled at. These aren't little kids anymore, they get paid millions to catch a football, why shouldn't they catch some sh!t when they drop it?

Just out of curiosity, how often does your boss humiliate you in front of several thousand people, and a live television audience? Let alone on ESPN?

And, regardless, is Bowe collecting huge paychecks to be treated like b****, or to play football?




What the hell does that have to do with Bowe. His problem is physically CATCHING the ball and hanging onto it. No one here has EVER mentioned anything else you said but CATCHING THE BALL. His issue is not running routes, learning plays, looking for the ball at the right time, etc. Its simply CATCHING THE BALL.

Because all of those factors come into play when catching the football.

He isn't in the backyard playing catch. There really is a 250 lb. LB breathing down his neck. There really is a very specific route that he has to be in the process of running. He really does need to know what the play is. He actually has to have an idea of what to do after he cathes the ball.

There are a whole lot of things that can contribute to having trouble catching the football. So it may be wise to take those things into consideration.


The shoe fits.... I am 100% sure Todd Haley did NOT just decided to wake up hating D. Bowe one morning and decided to hold a grudge agaist D. Bowe.

Really? 100%? Like absolutely zero possibility that Bowe pi**ed him off and they have had problems ever since?

Well, tell me, please, oh great seer, when will Todd Haley lead us to the playoffs?

The guy had problems in the off season that got him demoted in an attempt to motivate D. Bowe to work harder at becoming the elite player we all think he could be.

Todd Haley said so, so you must be 100% sure of that too.

You are all point the blame at the wrong person. Haley and TONY Gonzalez have tried to teach a strong work ethic to D. Bowe, yet D. Bowe continues to think he is a talent that needs no improvement.

Again...100%?

As for Haley Yelling at people. Have you watched him since about the Pittsburgh Game.... He isn't yelling at the players like he was. In fact, I saw him yelling at Bobby Wade after making a catch Against Cincy and thought What is this about and then both smiled and gave each other a big High Five. He is an emotional coach, and while I thought he was chewing out Wade, he was praising him, even after their argument a couple weeks ago they are mending their differences.

Keep blaming Todd Haley, that is fine, but as far as I am concerned 100% of the problem is the immaturity and ego of one over paid Wr.

You do know what 100% means, right?

One WR? What, then, is wrong with all of the other recievers on this team?

Seems like the immaturity and ego of seven players might be closer to what you meant.

Not to mention all of the immaturity and egos of all of the other players that Haley has fired, demoted and humiliated.

Yep. There is no other possibilty than everyone around Todd Haley is a fool. Because we all know that there couldn't possibly be a flaw in Todd Haley. 100%

I'll admit....

That he has a bit of an issue with dropping passes that he should be catching.

But he is still a rather young player.

It seems that most who are on Bowe's back, turn right around and cut Cassel all kinds of slack.

Bowe has been a tremendous success of a WR, considering his situation. Instead of hounding him about his mistakes, maybe helping him to fix them would be the better idea.

[Canada]

Just out of curiosity, how often does your boss humiliate you in front of several thousand people, and a live television audience? Let alone on ESPN?

And, regardless, is Bowe collecting huge paychecks to be treated like b****, or to play football?

Nope, its usually in front of a smaller audience but I make a proportionately smaller amount of money.

Bowe is making a lot of money playing football. Unfortunately there have been times when he is not doing that. He got yelled at. Its football, coaches get mad.

[Hayvern]

Dwayne Bowe has not been good this year and I found the stats from last year... turns out that he had the second most drops in the NFL last season with 13...

iWon - NFL League Stats (http://sports.iwon.com/nfl/stats/league/passesdropped.html)

I have posted this stat all over the boards, drops means nothing unless you look at the number of times he was targeted. Brandon Marshall had 12 drops last season, only one less than Bowe, and he is an elite WR.

You have to also look at how many times he was thrown to. he was targeted 157 times last season, that is the third most in the league. Yes, that was TWO more times than The Former Chiefs Player Who Shall Remain Nameless.

So it would stand to reason he would be at the top of the list for drops, he has had more opportunity to drop them.

[chief31]

Nope, its usually in front of a smaller audience but I make a proportionately smaller amount of money.

Bowe is making a lot of money playing football. Unfortunately there have been times when he is not doing that. He got yelled at. Its football, coaches get mad.

Just as a coach gets mad, so do alot of other people. It really isn't an exclusive feature to coaches.

If that is acceptable, then is it acceptable for a player to react as any normal person might, to being humiliated?

Is it going to be ok if Bowe knocks Haley on his *** this week?

Or do we call for his head?

How about if he just gets in Haley's face and gives him a taste of his own medicine?

Maybe he grabs Haley's shirt and gets his attention some. That cool?

This whole "Coaching with an iron fist" concept seems awefully popular around here. It just doesn't seem to be effective.

Yell at Pollard, Pollard reacts, Pollard is fired. Pollard goes and makes another team better.

Yell at and demote Bowe, bowe drops even more passes.

Hell, yell at all the WRs, they all drop a bunch of passes.

Bench our top defender, he never sees the field.

And we have a team that ranks 28th and 30th on offense/defense. (24th and 31st a year ago)

Sure doesn't seem like making enemies of your employees is working out all that great, so far. But then, I have never seen that work out well.

[texaschief]

I would rather stick with The QB that we have then go with Cutler. I have never thought highly of the guy. He turns the ball over way to much. And he does not have the best attiude. It might just be that hes a former donkey to.

I think you missed my sarcasm.


He isn't even close to our best player. He has the potential to be the best player, but his lack of work ethic and selfish attitude has him among leaders in dropped passes, with a four game suspension.

J. Morton has better years than D. Bowe. He certainly had less drops.

Dwayne Bowe isn't considered one of our "best players?" Really?.... uh, ok.


First of all, you have the wrong coach.

Second of all if I wanted to be that coach, I would say he, lets trade Brandon Flowers, and while were are at it, lets trade Jamaal Charles. Maybe we can get back LJ while were at it.

Wait... what?

D Bowe is not our best player. He has potential but how many years are we going to have to wait?
Maybe I am just too impatient for him to be good. He should be scoring the TD's and having about 80-100 yards receiving a game, unless we run the ball. (see above)


The shoe fits.... I am 100% sure Todd Haley did NOT just decided to wake up hating D. Bowe one morning and decided to hold a grudge agaist D. Bowe.

Wow... really? How do you explain the Will Franklin episode and Todd Haley saying he was one of Herm's guys and that he was going to "ride him?" I'm pretty sure Haley has the capacity to just wake up one day and decide he doesn't like someone.

I'm still waiting for people to realize this coach is a joke. For some reason, this guy is getting a free pass for some HORRIFIC crap that the black guy wouldn't have EVER gotten away with. I've tried to figure out why Haley is getting off so easy for all this crap and I've pretty much eliminated all scenarios but the fact that he's white. If you had a black coach doing the things this jacka$$ has done throughout the year and he wouldn't have even lasted to this point and the fans would be up in arms.

I just don't understand the devotion to a guy who has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING during his time in the NFL that would indicate that he's capable of talent evaluation necessary for even an NFL scout. He only had HALF a season at OC before this season. He was a WR coach before then. The guy NEVER played the game! He made his name fighting with a WR in the NFC championship game. He's made one bad decision after the other since his hiring. Without listing every poor decision he's made and adding that to this argument. Just go back and look at his qualifications. I could show you at least 5 black coaches in this league WITH BETTER QUALIFICATIONS that would've been run out of town with pitchforks and torches blazing.

Todd Haley IS NOT capable of this position AT THIS TIME. He doesn't have the experience required and it has shown throughout the year. This quote:

Keep blaming Todd Haley, that is fine, but as far as I am concerned 100% of the problem is the immaturity and ego of one over paid Wr. is AMAZING!!! You can sit there and rail against a WR due to (according to you) his "ego" and support a coach who fired one of the best OC's in the NFL one week before the season because he thought he could do a better job. If you're going to quit supporting someone due to "immaturity and ego," at least be consistent and call for Haley's head as well.

[pbatrucker]

Chan was removed from the OC position. He is still on the Chiefs payroll, probabaly helping Pioli scout players (just guessing). He was not fired.

[texaschief]

Chan was removed from the OC position. He is still on the Chiefs payroll, probabaly helping Pioli scout players (just guessing). He was not fired.

He was fired as the OC.

[nosebleed34]

I have posted this stat all over the boards, drops means nothing unless you look at the number of times he was targeted. Brandon Marshall had 12 drops last season, only one less than Bowe, and he is an elite WR.

You have to also look at how many times he was thrown to. he was targeted 157 times last season, that is the third most in the league. Yes, that was TWO more times than The Former Chiefs Player Who Shall Remain Nameless.

So it would stand to reason he would be at the top of the list for drops, he has had more opportunity to drop them.

Well that does make sense as far as that stat goes, but there is no denying that Bowe has struggled at times.

[Seek]

I have posted this stat all over the boards, drops means nothing unless you look at the number of times he was targeted. Brandon Marshall had 12 drops last season, only one less than Bowe, and he is an elite WR.

You have to also look at how many times he was thrown to. he was targeted 157 times last season, that is the third most in the league. Yes, that was TWO more times than The Former Chiefs Player Who Shall Remain Nameless.

So it would stand to reason he would be at the top of the list for drops, he has had more opportunity to drop them.

The stat you are leaving out, is how many were completed. You can throw a person while it is 10 feet over their head. The other stat you are leaving out, is actual production. Brandon Marshal is a Pro-bowl receiver that is the Broncos go to guy. He Is often triple covered.

[Seek]

I think you missed my sarcasm.



Dwayne Bowe isn't considered one of our "best players?" Really?.... uh, ok.





Wow... really? How do you explain the Will Franklin episode and Todd Haley saying he was one of Herm's guys and that he was going to "ride him?" I'm pretty sure Haley has the capacity to just wake up one day and decide he doesn't like someone.

I'm still waiting for people to realize this coach is a joke. For some reason, this guy is getting a free pass for some HORRIFIC crap that the black guy wouldn't have EVER gotten away with. I've tried to figure out why Haley is getting off so easy for all this crap and I've pretty much eliminated all scenarios but the fact that he's white. If you had a black coach doing the things this jacka$$ has done throughout the year and he wouldn't have even lasted to this point and the fans would be up in arms.

I just don't understand the devotion to a guy who has done ABSOLUTELY NOTHING during his time in the NFL that would indicate that he's capable of talent evaluation necessary for even an NFL scout. He only had HALF a season at OC before this season. He was a WR coach before then. The guy NEVER played the game! He made his name fighting with a WR in the NFC championship game. He's made one bad decision after the other since his hiring. Without listing every poor decision he's made and adding that to this argument. Just go back and look at his qualifications. I could show you at least 5 black coaches in this league WITH BETTER QUALIFICATIONS that would've been run out of town with pitchforks and torches blazing.

Todd Haley IS NOT capable of this position AT THIS TIME. He doesn't have the experience required and it has shown throughout the year. This quote: is AMAZING!!! You can sit there and rail against a WR due to (according to you) his "ego" and support a coach who fired one of the best OC's in the NFL one week before the season because he thought he could do a better job. If you're going to quit supporting someone due to "immaturity and ego," at least be consistent and call for Haley's head as well.

My debate is not about if Haley is a good HC or not. My debate is about D. Bowe and where he is mentally.

My opinion of him would still stand today even if Herm was the HC. When Tony G. tried to work with Bowe, and tried to get him to catch passes with him to work on his drops... It was clear to me that Bowe is in the NFl only because of his great talent, but he does not have what it takes to be one of the best. Tony G had the drops something awful his first two years.

Regardless of the coach, DBowe thinks he his stuff does not stink because he refuses to listen to Tony G.... Alex Gordon is the same way with George Brett..

Add the fact that Haley came in and tried negative reinforcement on Bowe, only confirms to me that Bowe just does not care...

My opinion of Haley is still on a fence. He is a rookie HC, and mistakes are guaranteed to happen. As far as I am concerned this year is a try out for him and the players. If the same stuff continues next year and there is no improvement. My opinon of him will be more imformed. I do think his temper and eagerness to do things to try and win is improving, even though the team is failing. His honeymoon ends Sunday.

[Canada]

Just as a coach gets mad, so do alot of other people. It really isn't an exclusive feature to coaches.

If that is acceptable, then is it acceptable for a player to react as any normal person might, to being humiliated?

Is it going to be ok if Bowe knocks Haley on his *** this week?

Or do we call for his head?

How about if he just gets in Haley's face and gives him a taste of his own medicine?

Maybe he grabs Haley's shirt and gets his attention some. That cool?

This whole "Coaching with an iron fist" concept seems awefully popular around here. It just doesn't seem to be effective.

Yell at Pollard, Pollard reacts, Pollard is fired. Pollard goes and makes another team better.

Yell at and demote Bowe, bowe drops even more passes.

Hell, yell at all the WRs, they all drop a bunch of passes.

Bench our top defender, he never sees the field.

And we have a team that ranks 28th and 30th on offense/defense. (24th and 31st a year ago)

Sure doesn't seem like making enemies of your employees is working out all that great, so far. But then, I have never seen that work out well.

I see, so Bowe should not get in any trouble. He just dropped the ball so its OK. You can call him an iron first leader if u like but Im pretty sure you and I only really get to see him for three hours a week. The rest of what you say is purely speculation. I believe you sarcastically called someone else the "great seer" for speculating on someones behaviour.

Go ahead and throw all the stats u like around. Do you honestly believe that if no one yelled at anyone that we would be ranked around 15th...16th in the league? There is no one thing wrong with our offence, there are several and they are not going to get taken care of in one offseason.

My point is that you have a guy who has been in the league a few years, gets paid millions to play and he gets yelled at when he makes a drop. Cry me a fu*kin' river. If you hate it that much, pack you sh!t and get the f*ck outta here. Otherwise, suck it up and do your job.

[chief31]

I'm still waiting for people to realize this coach is a joke. For some reason, this guy is getting a free pass for some HORRIFIC crap that the black guy wouldn't have EVER gotten away with. I've tried to figure out why Haley is getting off so easy for all this crap and I've pretty much eliminated all scenarios but the fact that he's white. If you had a black coach doing the things this jacka$$ has done throughout the year and he wouldn't have even lasted to this point and the fans would be up in arms.



Wow. I didn't picture you as a racist.

Herm was given the same leeway for his first season that Haley is getting.

Same as with Haley now, I was highly critical of Herm during his first season, and just about everyone else was defending him, and waiting another year to pass judgement.

The only difference has been how you were (and still are) so patient and forgiving of three years of Herm's failures, and all over Haley's a**, in his first season.

I've heard all of your excuses. But they all fail.

Herm was here for three seasons, and you were making every excuse that you could for him, and suggesting that he only needed another two or thee years to get this team built.

And Haley has been here all of one season, and you are done with him.

I just attributed that to some blind faith in Herm. But since you brought up the race card, I think I have changed my opinion.



I see, so Bowe should not get in any trouble. He just dropped the ball so its OK.

Ah, what a bold technique you have used here, Mr Canada. Going directly to the "arms in the air" exaggeration.

Somehow, you get to act like I said that players can "not get in any trouble".

Love how effective that technique is. It's like what Mel Gibson's character in Lethal Weapon did to that one woman. Some psychiatrist, or something. You know, he yelled in front of everybody, something like "No I will not go out with you!!!"

Nice move. But you and I both know that it is BS.


You can call him an iron first leader if u like but Im pretty sure you and I only really get to see him for three hours a week. The rest of what you say is purely speculation. I believe you sarcastically called someone else the "great seer" for speculating on someones behaviour.

Haley has had alot of confrontations with these players this season. And that is just during the few hours that we get to see him, out of each week.

So it isn't "purely" speculation. It's partly speculation.

And, considering his behaviour toward the players during those few hours, I openly speculate that he is probably even tougher when the world isn't watching.

But that would be less of an issue in my opinion.

And the "great seer" comment came in regards to a "I'm 100% positive" remark. That isn't speculation. It is stating something as pure fact. 100% fact, to be precise.



Go ahead and throw all the stats u like around. Do you honestly believe that if no one yelled at anyone that we would be ranked around 15th...16th in the league?

Oh, that's just silly! How would they hear each other across the field during practice?:D


There is no one thing wrong with our offence, there are several and they are not going to get taken care of in one offseason.

My point is that you have a guy who has been in the league a few years, gets paid millions to play and he gets yelled at when he makes a drop. Cry me a fu*kin' river. If you hate it that much, pack you sh!t and get the f*ck outta here. Otherwise, suck it up and do your job.

That's what many of the players have done. And more will do the same. What we will be left with is just a bunch of players who are willing to do anything just to have a job, because they lack the talent to keep an NFL position, with a team that other players will play for.

It seems pretty obvious to me that "suck it up and do your job." isn't working out too well with our WRs.

NFL coaching is about getting your players to perform better, not worse.

If a guy plays a position were being enraged while playing is a good thing, (let's say D-line) then maybe pi**ing him off works. But when being pi**ed off breaks a player's much needed concentration, then maybe it is a staight-line to failure.

Anyway...

...the point is that humiliating players is certainly not a requirement.

And keeping that sort of thing to practices, instead of in front of the whole world, would probably be wise. Just as LJ might have been wise to keep his opinions off of Twitter.

You just don't spread your dirty laundry all over your front lawn, for everyone to see. Keep it in the damn hamper.

Or, better yet, wash it. (AKA fix it.)

[Canada]

Yeah thats all great if all he does is yell at people. Which is not true, thats just the only time they put a camera on him during a game. So you are speculating (partially Im sure) that our WRs would be better without getting yelled at and if our Coach was not so mean then more players would want to come here. Herm was a super nice guy....how many players did that attract? I think the whole No one will want to play here comment is a big load of sh!t. Ton coughlin was a di*k when he first came to NY but the winning seemed to make him more likeable to the players. Wierd how that works. Having a dicussion on how Haley acts with the players is ridiculous since no one really gets to see it. Maybe he is your loving nurturing coach during practice when they are learning and then gets pissed off when they don't do their job on Sunday.

[KottkeKU]

tom coughlin is a great example. NY wanted his head on a platter through his first couple years, then he wins them a superbowl beating the mighty NE Patriots with a gnarly 4-3 pass rush.

[CapitalT]

Next year, Haley will fully own the responsibility for the players attitude and performance. Hopefully we won't hear any more whining about how Haley can't succeed because of mistakes made by Peterson and Edwards.

If he turns this team around and the Chiefs start winning (I'm thinking a few more wins - perhaps a few quality wins), I won't be complaining about his coaching. If the Chiefs don't start winning, we need to look for a new head coach.

[chief31]

Yeah thats all great if all he does is yell at people. Which is not true, thats just the only time they put a camera on him during a game. So you are speculating (partially Im sure) that our WRs would be better without getting yelled at and if our Coach was not so mean then more players would want to come here. Herm was a super nice guy....how many players did that attract? I think the whole No one will want to play here comment is a big load of sh!t. Ton coughlin was a di*k when he first came to NY but the winning seemed to make him more likeable to the players. Wierd how that works. Having a dicussion on how Haley acts with the players is ridiculous since no one really gets to see it. Maybe he is your loving nurturing coach during practice when they are learning and then gets pissed off when they don't do their job on Sunday.

Coughlin had to chill out before any winning happened there. That team was a complete mutiny during his "acting like a d***" years.

They were miserable when he was acting like that.

And the "speculation" about players not wanting to play for Haley is supported by the number of players that have found their way out of here in just one year.

And if the discussion is "ridiculous", then every discussion is ridiculous. You never have every single relative fact for any discussion.

But you would be a fool to not notice how Chiefs players have been having issues with Todd Haley.

Tony Gonzalez left right away.

Brian Waters at least met with him before trying to escape.

Bernard Pollard told the man, to his face, that he was unhappy.

Larry Johnson told the world.

Damion Mcintosh was fired with nobody here to do his job.

Tank Tyler was removed from the starting lineup when he was doing a very good job. Then removed from the team... again, with noone here to take his place.

Turk Mcbride was sent packing, immediately after that.

Tyler Thigpen was sent packing.

Derrick Johnson was demoted and has never been given a chance to show what he can do.

Dwayne Bowe has had issues with Haley all season long. Including a suspension for taking a weight-loss substance in a likely attempt to meet Haley's standards.

Where is Mark Bradley?

You can call it speculation, because, almost everything is.

But, just as I can speculate that the lottery ticket I just bought isn't going to win me the $200,000,000 jackpot, some things are just that damn obvious.

In our lifetimes, each of us has witnessed how people really react to different types of treatment.

And every one of us, yourself included, knows that if someone humiliates you, especially if it happens often, then you will come to despise them. You, me, everybody. (Always rare exceptions)

And you are not a part of a team, if most of the team despises you. You are just there for the team to tolerate.

Even with guys like Coughlin and Parcells, you never saw this much negative interaction with players, in just one season. Hell, I don't think you could combine their careers to come up with as many "low-lights" as Haley has in one year's time.

Again, if you aren't good enough to wash your dirty laundry, then, at least, keep off the front yard.

Now, I am sincerely curious...

Do you believe that there is no better way to teach, or instruct, people, than to yell at them and berate them?

And do you beieve that Dwayne Bowe, Chambers, Bradley, Wade and the rest of our recievers are incapable of catching the football?

Just wondering why you seem so in favor of humiliating the players, when it so clearly isn't working.

Like...maybe you think they just need some more sceaming at to get it all figured out?

[chief31]

Next year, Haley will fully own the responsibility for the players attitude and performance. Hopefully we won't hear any more whining about how Haley can't succeed because of mistakes made by Peterson and Edwards.

If he turns this team around and the Chiefs start winning (I'm thinking a few more wins - perhaps a few quality wins), I won't be complaining about his coaching. If the Chiefs don't start winning, we need to look for a new head coach.

He won't succeed if he continues to have as many bad relationships with his players as he does now.

However, as he fires everyone that he has a problem with, that whole situation will be minimized. He is doing that to "his" players.

No. He is babying his guys.

Just like Herm, I think Haley wants to be sure that any accomplishment he gets here will not be dismissed as the work of the guy before him.

I am not the one saying that Haley has to go. (Cowher exception here.)

But I am saying that he has mishandled the situation he was put in this season.

He could even still salvage what he has. I don't think he will. But he could.

He would just need to realize that this team could use the talent that he is trying to get rid of, and make changes to his treatment of them.

[fairladyZ]

also got to remember anquan boldin said he would not mind coming and playing for haley here.

ya i'm sure he gets in their face but i'm sure he supports them when they make good plays and good decisions aswell. just like i saw on sunday when he ran out on the field to wade and told him good job and was bringing him up.

This is a game about wins and money.
Players get paid A TON of money, they screw up they get yelled at by haley. We don't win a game or haley screws up, He gets yelled at by Pioli and every fan on this forum calling him a f'in idiot and screaming for his job.
it's a food chain can't deal with it hell give me the money and i will let him spit in my face for all i care.

[Canada]

Coughlin had to chill out before any winning happened there. That team was a complete mutiny during his "acting like a d***" years.

They were miserable when he was acting like that.

And the "speculation" about players not wanting to play for Haley is supported by the number of players that have found their way out of here in just one year.

And if the discussion is "ridiculous", then every discussion is ridiculous. You never have every single relative fact for any discussion.

But you would be a fool to not notice how Chiefs players have been having issues with Todd Haley.

Tony Gonzalez left right away.

Didn't he want to leave before Haley came here?

Brian Waters at least met with him before trying to escape.

I think I saw him play for the chiefs this year.

Bernard Pollard told the man, to his face, that he was unhappy.

He was unhappy...now he is gona to play average football somewhere else.
Larry Johnson told the world.

Who gives a sh!t what LJ says. That guy has been complining since Vermiel was here.

Damion Mcintosh was fired with nobody here to do his job.

He wasn't doing his job. How come now all of a sudden Sackintosh is someone we should not have gotten rid of?
Tank Tyler was removed from the starting lineup when he was doing a very good job. Then removed from the team... again, with noone here to take his place.

Turk Mcbride was sent packing, immediately after that.

Yeah, Haley destroying our Stellar D line!!

Tyler Thigpen was sent packing.

This was due to Haley...how?

Derrick Johnson was demoted and has never been given a chance to show what he can do.

We have not seen what DJ can do? Didn't u watch Chiefs football for the last 4 years?

Dwayne Bowe has had issues with Haley all season long. Including a suspension for taking a weight-loss substance in a likely attempt to meet Haley's standards.

I see...Bowe broke the rules and that is Haleys fault. Why not blame the NFL for wanting players who are in shape. How dare Haley make Bowe get in shape for the season. I think even you have to recognize that that is a ridiculous statement.

Where is Mark Bradley?

Dropping bals on the street somewhere I assume.

You can call it speculation, because, almost everything is.

But, just as I can speculate that the lottery ticket I just bought isn't going to win me the $200,000,000 jackpot, some things are just that damn obvious.

In our lifetimes, each of us has witnessed how people really react to different types of treatment.

And every one of us, yourself included, knows that if someone humiliates you, especially if it happens often, then you will come to despise them. You, me, everybody. (Always rare exceptions)

My old man yelled at me, called me an idiot. All kinds of sh!t. You know why....cause at the time I was being an idiot. Now that he has raised me, I got a good job and I am a pretty good person. Do i despise him? Not even a bit. I have the utmost respect for my father.

And you are not a part of a team, if most of the team despises you. You are just there for the team to tolerate.

Even with guys like Coughlin and Parcells, you never saw this much negative interaction with players, in just one season. Hell, I don't think you could combine their careers to come up with as many "low-lights" as Haley has in one year's time.

Again, if you aren't good enough to wash your dirty laundry, then, at least, keep off the front yard.

Now, I am sincerely curious...

Do you believe that there is no better way to teach, or instruct, people, than to yell at them and berate them?

And do you beieve that Dwayne Bowe, Chambers, Bradley, Wade and the rest of our recievers are incapable of catching the football?

Bradley..average. Wade...average. Chambers has been catching the ball for the most part and Bowe...I have heard conversations every season about when is Bowe gonna take it to the next level. I don't know what the problem is, but these problems all existed before Haley came along.
Just wondering why you seem so in favor of humiliating the players, when it so clearly isn't working.

Like...maybe you think they just need some more sceaming at to get it all figured out?

Maybe I think a hard nosed approach will work because all of the hand holding and kissing that we have had for the last 5 years has gotten us jack sh!t.

[chief31]

Maybe I think a hard nosed approach will work because all of the hand holding and kissing that we have had for the last 5 years has gotten us jack sh!t.

I must have missed where the kissing and hand-holding was suggested.




Tony Gonzalez left right away.

Didn't he want to leave before Haley came here?

Was having Haley as a HC enough to convince him that he was gonna be on a winner here?


Brian Waters at least met with him before trying to escape.

I think I saw him play for the chiefs this year.


Me too. Hmph! Contracts.

This is closing your eyes. Pretending like was never a situation with Waters and Haley.

Player who tried to leave because of Haley.


Bernard Pollard told the man, to his face, that he was unhappy.

He was unhappy...now he is gona to play average football somewhere else.

Lol. Still a player leaving because of Haley.


Larry Johnson told the world.

Who gives a sh!t what LJ says. That guy has been complining since Vermiel was here.

Still a player leaving because of Haley.


Damion Mcintosh was fired with nobody here to do his job.

He wasn't doing his job. How come now all of a sudden Sackintosh is someone we should not have gotten rid of?

He was someone who shouldn't have been gotten rid of before they did. Nothing "all of a sudden" about it.

And since he was fired without anyone to take his place, pretty easy to speculate (Since you seem to like the word) that there was some sort of issue with him.


Tank Tyler was removed from the starting lineup when he was doing a very good job. Then removed from the team... again, with noone here to take his place.

Turk Mcbride was sent packing, immediately after that.

Yeah, Haley destroying our Stellar D line!!


Yeah. It's been soooo much better ever since.


Tyler Thigpen was sent packing.

This was due to Haley...how?

May not have been. But could have been, for all we know.


Derrick Johnson was demoted and has never been given a chance to show what he can do.

We have not seen what DJ can do? Didn't u watch Chiefs football for the last 4 years?

DAMN!!! I thought we were running a different defense! Thanks for opening my eyes, brother!

But keep denying, even the most obvious situations.

He will be leaving because of Haley.


Dwayne Bowe has had issues with Haley all season long. Including a suspension for taking a weight-loss substance in a likely attempt to meet Haley's standards.

I see...Bowe broke the rules and that is Haleys fault. Why not blame the NFL for wanting players who are in shape. How dare Haley make Bowe get in shape for the season. I think even you have to recognize that that is a ridiculous statement.


Give me a damn break!

Have you ever seen what these guys go through in training camp?

They are gonna be in as good of shape as they can be. Some guys just aren't going to be able to drop to 200 pounds and be healthy. Most of them play on the lines though.

And if what they make a WR do in these training camps doesn't get them down to a certain weight, then that person isn't supposed to be at that weight.

And you just stick right to that same old tactic, hunh?

Pretending I said it was haley's fault. Cute.




Where is Mark Bradley?

Dropping bals on the street somewhere I assume.


Right on! He must hold some records for dropped balls, eh?

Another player gone due to Haley.


Bradley..average. Wade...average. Chambers has been catching the ball for the most part and Bowe...I have heard conversations every season about when is Bowe gonna take it to the next level. I don't know what the problem is, but these problems all existed before Haley came along.


The next level? He has been playing great! Too bad he doesn't seem to want to be here anymore.

And Chambers has become just another Chiefs WR who drops the ball. Watch the games. He is as guilty as anyone else.

But...

Back to the plain and simple fact that you can't make enemies of your team and expect good things.



My old man yelled at me, called me an idiot. All kinds of sh!t. You know why....cause at the time I was being an idiot. Now that he has raised me, I got a good job and I am a pretty good person. Do i despise him? Not even a bit. I have the utmost respect for my father.

And you never did despise him for it? He never punished you erroneously? Or you just respected that too?

You must be one in a million. I don't think I have ever met someone who didn't despise their parents, to some degree, and for some length of time, no matter how much/little discipline they had from them.

It isn't until they have grown past that they learn to respect it. Generally, many years later.

And still, these people aren't children. Treating them as such is stupid.

If you are gonna coach a team of 53 grown men, you are gonna have to learn to deal with different personalities.

Some are gonna respond well to harsh criticism. Some aren't. And if you want all of them to perform the best that they can, then you have to learn how to get that from each one of them.

[Canada]

Back to the plain and simple fact that you can't make enemies of your team and expect good things.




And you never did despise him for it? He never punished you erroneously? Or you just respected that too?

You must be one in a million. I don't think I have ever met someone who didn't despise their parents, to some degree, and for some length of time, no matter how much/little discipline they had from them.

It isn't until they have grown past that they learn to respect it. Generally, many years later.

And still, these people aren't children. Treating them as such is stupid.

If you are gonna coach a team of 53 grown men, you are gonna have to learn to deal with different personalities.

Some are gonna respond well to harsh criticism. Some aren't. And if you want all of them to perform the best that they can, then you have to learn how to get that from each one of them.

So they only "act" like children but we should not treat them as such. Ok.

And all those players you named that Haley chased outta town...Tony G and LJ were both gone and you know it. Blame it on Haley if u like but they were both finished here. LJ especially, at least Tony waws a pofessional last year and still did his job. DJ, Bowe and Waters are all still here so I dont see how they are gone because of Haley. Assume they will be gone next year but they are not right now. That leave Tyler, McBride, Thigpen, MacIntosh and Bradley. So of the 10 guys you named that are gone because of Haley, maybe half of them are gone because of Haley. Did it occur to you that these guys are gone because they went 2-12 and that maybe there is nota lot of talent on the team. Or does Haley have to keep them all to be a good coach? He is trying to build a winning football team and I don't imagine that a lot of the pieces are on a 2-12 team.

[chief31]

So they only "act" like children but we should not treat them as such. Ok.

Dropping a football is "acting like a child"? Am I understanding that correctly?

Meaning, like adults don't drop easy catches?

So there has never been an adult that played WR at the NFL level?

That can't really be what you meant here.

You want to talk about someone acting like a child?

How about a guy who is openly throwing fits on Sunday? How about a guy who is just getting rid of people who don't like him?

Instead of doing his job, and getting the most from the players on the team, he is making a fool of himself in front of the world with his tirades, and giving up on young players.



And all those players you named that Haley chased outta town...Tony G and LJ were both gone and you know it. Blame it on Haley if u like but they were both finished here. LJ especially, at least Tony waws a pofessional last year and still did his job. DJ, Bowe and Waters are all still here so I dont see how they are gone because of Haley. Assume they will be gone next year but they are not right now. That leave Tyler, McBride, Thigpen, MacIntosh and Bradley. So of the 10 guys you named that are gone because of Haley, maybe half of them are gone because of Haley. Did it occur to you that these guys are gone because they went 2-12 and that maybe there is nota lot of talent on the team. Or does Haley have to keep them all to be a good coach? He is trying to build a winning football team and I don't imagine that a lot of the pieces are on a 2-12 team.


Alot of the pieces were/are here.

And Waters, LJ, DJ and Bowe are players that Haley has made enemies of at some point.

If this team was so a void of talent, as many want to try and say to protect Haley, then maybe Herm wasn't really doing all that bad as a coach. He just had CP giving him crap for talent.

And, by that logic, since this team is only 3-12, there is clearly nothing here to build a winner from, either.

And if, in one year, we have been unable to gather some building blocks for the future, who failed?

Last years team, despite the overwhelming difference in record, was a little bit better than this year's team is.

Even the greatest talent in the league can be made to look like they should be bagging groceries, by poor coaching.

If your gameplan is a failure, then, by executing that gameplan, the players are sure to fail.

That is what happened to The Chiefs last season. Herm had a deathgrip on the offense, but eventually surrendered, and good things happened.

But he never did release his grip on that defense. And they never did improve as a team.

Haley is surrounding himself with enemies. And those enemies needn't be enemies at all.

Hard-nosed HC? Cool. I like that. Cowher? Gunther? I like those guys.

But Haley is doing it wrong.

When you refuse to respect those that you work with, then you will not be respected in turn.

And there isn't alot of good that can come from a team that doesn't respect their HC.

And getting rid of guys because "they went 2-13 and obviously have no talent", while replacing them with even less talented players is plain stupid.

You remove players from the team because the other players at their position are better at it than that player. Not because "He talked back to me!!!"

[endzonewillie]

Everyone needs to remember that alot of our success depends on the WRs blocking for JC as well. Yes they are technically paid to catch the ball but they also make it possible for JC to have holes in the second and third layers of the field. Bowe is a good blocker but I don't count him as a solid number one receiver. We need to aquire someone that has the talent to catch everything thrown at them. I say keep Bowe for the blocking as well as Chambers and pick up another WR to make our core hard to double team.

[Canada]

Alright man. Haley is fuc*in awful. He took a 2-12 team and only won 3 games. What a shock. I see the light. Our only problem is coaching.

I don't know why you are talking about NFL WRs being children for dropping balls. I am talking about the guys who say they don't want to play cause they got yelled at. Is that not childish?

I get it, you don't like Haley. You don't agree with his coaching style. Does that make it wrong? You seem to know everything he does and says all week. How terrible he is as a person/coach. All his yelling, how there is no positive reinforcement. I know these are all assumtions on your part purely to support your argument. Fact is no one sees inside the practice facility. No one knows what goes on in meetings. We had a bunch of players who did not get the job done. They should be fired. But if u want to blindly hate Haley for that then knock yourself out. By your logic Herm was a good coach cause he went 9-7 in his firs season and made the playoffs. Talk to me after Haley has had three seasons and then give me your excuse why we are a better team.

[Canada]

...and I don't need a dictionary explanation of "assumptions or why you use them"

[endzonewillie]

Everyone will blame the new guy when things don't go the way they want it. Haley is that guy and whether we like it or not we will have him there for atleast a couple more years before he is canned straight up. Scott Pioli is in love with him and until they get a squad that should be playing top tier football and Haley can't coach them he will remain our coach. Right now the Chiefs have some good players but in no way have they aquired the players to become competitive in a league full of stars. I applaude what he did getting Larry Johnson out of KC and JC has been out standing since his departure.The passing scheme is not as bad as most will say we just need guys that DON'T DROP THE BALL. When a team has 20+ drops per game or more they lose, simple.

[Hayvern]

My problem with Haley is similar to the problem I had with Edwards. This team needs someone who is experienced at building a team. It needs a proven leader, one that COMMANDS respect instead of DEMANDS it.

Haley is hardly older than some of the players that are on the field, he has never proven that he can build a team. There is no denying that a coach like Parcells, Belichek, Shanahan, Shottenheimer, Vermiel, any of those guys have proven they know how to be a head coach and win. Haley has not proven himself.

In about 10 years, Haley has the potential to be a great head coach, but he does not have the skills to do that right now, nor does he have the respect of the players he has to coach.

He has shown over and over again that he is not ready for this position.

[chief31]

Alright man. Haley is fuc*in awful.


He took a 2-12 team and only won 3 games. What a shock. I see the light. Our only problem is coaching.

I don't know why you are talking about NFL WRs being children for dropping balls. I am talking about the guys who say they don't want to play cause they got yelled at. Is that not childish?

I get it, you don't like Haley. You don't agree with his coaching style. Does that make it wrong? You seem to know everything he does and says all week. How terrible he is as a person/coach. All his yelling, how there is no positive reinforcement. I know these are all assumtions on your part purely to support your argument. Fact is no one sees inside the practice facility. No one knows what goes on in meetings. We had a bunch of players who did not get the job done. They should be fired. But if u want to blindly hate Haley for that then knock yourself out. By your logic Herm was a good coach cause he went 9-7 in his firs season and made the playoffs. Talk to me after Haley has had three seasons and then give me your excuse why we are a better team.

I do not "blindly hate" Todd Haley. I don't hate him at all. I don't even dislike him. I simply dislike how he has made enemies of the guys that he should be making into his best friends. The enemies are on the other side of the field.

And anyone can plainly see that he is having alot of trouble getting along with these players.

But it is ridiculous to say that, because players were unable to make Herm's gameplan work, that they should be fired.

All of the players here this season should be fired on the same premise.

Then, all of the players on next year's team should be fired too.

And then the next year, and so on, until we manage to get a group of nobody's that can win.

Also...

I don't find it childish to not want to have someone furthering your humiliation after each mistake that you make.

I don't know anyone who gets off on that.

Let someone humiliate you on this site, and watch how you react.

It is completely normal to dislike being treated that way. Just because you are at work, doesn't mean that you are no longer human.

I find it pretty impressive that all of the players that Haley has 'dogged' on Sunday have kept from knocking him out.

I have little doubt that that's what you would do, were you berated too often.

[Ryfo18]

Alright man. Haley is fuc*in awful. He took a 2-12 team and only won 3 games. What a shock. I see the light. Our only problem is coaching.

I don't know why you are talking about NFL WRs being children for dropping balls. I am talking about the guys who say they don't want to play cause they got yelled at. Is that not childish?

I get it, you don't like Haley. You don't agree with his coaching style. Does that make it wrong? You seem to know everything he does and says all week. How terrible he is as a person/coach. All his yelling, how there is no positive reinforcement. I know these are all assumtions on your part purely to support your argument. Fact is no one sees inside the practice facility. No one knows what goes on in meetings. We had a bunch of players who did not get the job done. They should be fired. But if u want to blindly hate Haley for that then knock yourself out. By your logic Herm was a good coach cause he went 9-7 in his firs season and made the playoffs. Talk to me after Haley has had three seasons and then give me your excuse why we are a better team.


:sign0098:

[Canada]

I do not "blindly hate" Todd Haley. I don't hate him at all. I don't even dislike him. I simply dislike how he has made enemies of the guys that he should be making into his best friends. The enemies are on the other side of the field.

And anyone can plainly see that he is having alot of trouble getting along with these players.

IF u base that off a 30 second clip on TV of him yelling at someone then OK.

But it is ridiculous to say that, because players were unable to make Herm's gameplan work, that they should be fired.

I don't think that why they should be fired. They should be fired because they aren't that good.

All of the players here this season should be fired on the same premise. ]

I think you will find a lot of them are.

Then, all of the players on next year's team should be fired too.

Keepthe guys who can play and fire the ones who can't. What a novel idea.

And then the next year, and so on, until we manage to get a group of nobody's that can win.



Also...

I don't find it childish to not want to have someone furthering your humiliation after each mistake that you make.

Again....awwww....poor lil fella dosent wanna get in trouble when he messes up at work.

I don't know anyone who gets off on that.

Never said they have to get off on it.

Let someone humiliate you on this site, and watch how you react.

Pay me millions first.

It is completely normal to dislike being treated that way. Just because you are at work, doesn't mean that you are no longer human.

Again...when did I say they have to like it? Sure would be neat if one of these guys decided I don't like to get yelled at so I am gonna play better.

I find it pretty impressive that all of the players that Haley has 'dogged' on Sunday have kept from knocking him out.

I have little doubt that that's what you would do, were you berated too often.

Not to my boss who paid me millions. Believe it or not I have had ****ty bosses and I managed to keep my job. And do my work and not screw up.

[chief31]

Not to my boss who paid me millions. Believe it or not I have had ****ty bosses and I managed to keep my job. And do my work and not screw up.

Regardless of how much money you make, eventually, you get tired of being treated like a b****.

And anyone can plainly see that he is having alot of trouble getting along with these players.

IF u base that off a 30 second clip on TV of him yelling at someone then

Or if you use any common sense at all. You have to bury your head in the sand to not notice that Haley has lost his clubhouse.


But it is ridiculous to say that, because players were unable to make Herm's gameplan work, that they should be fired.

I don't think that why they should be fired. They should be fired because they aren't that good.

Keepthe guys who can play and fire the ones who can't. What a novel idea.

So, if that's the case, then why are we just as bad as last season?

That's not the reason we are keeping/firing players. If it was, with a better gameplan than what Herm had, we would be playing better football.

We aren't.

0-16, or 6-10, we are still horrible. The emergence of an outside(only) running game is the only thing that is improved, while everything else has gotten worse, or stayed the same.

Trying to cover for a HC that has been unable to work with people, by saying we are getting rid of guys who can't play and keeping those that can only works if the team is improving.

And, as bad as this team was last season, one would think that it should be pretty easy to improve, if you have improved on the players.

[matthewschiefs]

Regardless of how much money you make, eventually, you get tired of being treated like a b****.


Or if you use any common sense at all. You have to bury your head in the sand to not notice that Haley has lost his clubhouse.



So, if that's the case, then why are we just as bad as last season?

That's not the reason we are keeping/firing players. If it was, with a better gameplan than what Herm had, we would be playing better football.

We aren't.

0-16, or 6-10, we are still horrible. The emergence of an outside(only) running game is the only thing that is improved, while everything else has gotten worse, or stayed the same.

Trying to cover for a HC that has been unable to work with people, by saying we are getting rid of guys who can't play and keeping those that can only works if the team is improving.

And, as bad as this team was last season, one would think that it should be pretty easy to improve, if you have improved on the players.


I have to disagree with you there. Our O line has gotten better thoughout the season. Are they good no but they are no as bad as they were at the start of the year. We have seen Cassle have time to go deep a few times in the past few games. Now Charles might be a reason for it. He is defently part of the reason but there has been improvement on the o line.

The defenseive pass rush is better then a year ago. A year ago this team set a ALL TIME LOW for sacks we wont do that this season. Tamba Hali is a much better player then he has ever been in a chiefs jersey. Outside of when Jared allen was here. He is better then when we had a "defensive head coach"

I no that this year has been frustrating to watch. We have shot ourselfs in the foot in quite a number of games but there are signs of life from this team. We as fans just got to give this whol process of Haley and Pioli time to work out. Its tough but its what we have to do. But this team is not as far off as people think to being a competive football team again IMO.

[pbatrucker]

Sorry Mathew, but our Ol is still as bad as ever. I know the stats have improved, but there is only one reason for that, Jamaal Charles. He doesn't need large holes to run through and no longer can defenses pin there ears back and haul *** to yhe QB, They have to respect JC.

[Pro_Angler]

Everyone know how I feel about our beloved Mr Ego coach. I do think that we have a great possibility of losing some good players because of him, We will have a hard time getting new players because of him, He will be better next year IMO but I still want Cowher.

[Ryfo18]

Everyone know how I feel about our beloved Mr Ego coach. I do think that we have a great possibility of losing some good players because of him, We will have a hard time getting new players because of him, He will be better next year IMO but I still want Cowher.

You do know that it took Cowher 14 years to win a super bowl with the same team don't you? Give Haley a chance.

[tornadospotter]

Cowher, would make FA think more about coming to KC.

[Ryfo18]

Cowher, would make FA think more about coming to KC.

The highest offer makes FA's come to any team. That's pretty much how the NFL works.

[tornadospotter]

The highest offer makes FA's come to any team. That's pretty much how the NFL works.
It is not always about money, is that why TG wanted to be traded?

[chief31]

You do know that it took Cowher 14 years to win a super bowl with the same team don't you? Give Haley a chance.

I took him one season to win his division, and four seasons to reach the Super Bowl.

I don't mind giving Haley his chance. But there is no way I would pass on Cowher for him.

He only had three sub-.500 seasons, of those 15.

[Ryfo18]

I took him one season to win his division, and four seasons to reach the Super Bowl.

I don't mind giving Haley his chance. But there is no way I would pass on Cowher for him.

He only had three sub-.500 seasons, of those 15.

He also took over a 7-9 team his first year....not a 2-14 team.

[chief31]

He also took over a 7-9 team his first year....not a 2-14 team.

I wasn't making that comparison. Just pointing out that he did more than just take 15 seasons to win a Super Bowl.

[Canada]

Or if you use any common sense at all. You have to bury your head in the sand to not notice that Haley has lost his clubhouse.

Really now. I seem to recall seeing Haley high fiving guys, patting them on the back and it seemed like a pretty happy sideline to me yesterday. Not at all like a guy who has lost his team. I guess I will just check around the boards to see where you give him the credit for encouraging his players. Or does that sort of behaviour not fit into your argument about why he should not be our head coach.

[chief31]

Or if you use any common sense at all. You have to bury your head in the sand to not notice that Haley has lost his clubhouse.

Really now. I seem to recall seeing Haley high fiving guys, patting them on the back and it seemed like a pretty happy sideline to me yesterday. Not at all like a guy who has lost his team. I guess I will just check around the boards to see where you give him the credit for encouraging his players. Or does that sort of behaviour not fit into your argument about why he should not be our head coach.

That sort of thing should be pretty commonplace, shouldn't it?

Yesterday was one great game. It gives me alot of hope moving forward.

But it was still one game, and he has had player issues throughout the season, not for just one game.

Hopefully, guys like DJ have finally done enough to get Haley to come down from his high horse and become a part of this team, along with them.


He has a long offseason to reevaluate himself, even if he hasn't. I just hope that he isn't sitting on the same values that you seem to be.

Because, if what you do makes a player on your team perform less, then you need to try something else.

[Connie Jo]

ummmm....Im pretty sure that I jumped up and cheered every time Bowe causght a ball. Didn't you? How about Vern? How about Chiefster? How about every other member on these boards? I am sure we all cheer pretty damn hard when Bowe catches the ball. No one comes to my work and pats me on the back and holds my hand all day when I do my job right. But I will damn sure hear about it if I fu*k up. If Bowe feels underappreciated then maybe he should go to the payroll department and look at his pay stub and he will see how many KC fans support him. You can't use one game (the Browns game) as a measuring stick for how the fans treat the guy. I have heard a lot of cheers for Bowe so I think that he gets his share of encouragement as well as his fair share of sh!t. I am not speaking about Haley as I only really see what goes on for three hours on the field as opposed to what their relationship is all week. :bananen_smilies046:

Heck...I'm just now reading through the threads and catching up after the holidays...sorry for the delayed reply, haha. :D

Of course you and I and Chiefs Crowd members cheered loudly when Bowe made a catch, as well as when any other Chief does a good job...cause we're the best of the best loyal diehard fans out there!

That said, what I noticed at the Browns game was when Bowe was booed by fans in the stadium overall, it was much louder than what the cheering was. I just personally found that to be a bit of double standards among those fans who booed louder than they cheered. I felt bad for Bowe that day, that's all.

I'm not a booer anyway, and have issues with it related to some circumstances...such as when a team is beaten down and their moral is obviously low...booing IMO only contributes to making a bad situation worse.

I suppose I'm a bit sensitive of this subject in particular, because throughout life I've witnessed in a variety of personalities the damage that can be done to one's self esteem with repeated criticism, and/or public humiliation of a job/task seen as poorly done vs unequal praise of a job/task when well done.

It seems the greatest coaches are the ones who found/find an equal balance between criticism and praise...as both are critical in the NFL for a successful team IMO.

Anyway...I like Haley so far, and believe he has the capability to be a great Head Coach. I like Bowe too, and believe he has the talent to be a great WR...only time will tell if I'm correct or wrong, hahaha. :D

What I don't like...is attending games at Arrowhead and witnessing fans put forth more negative effort than positive when given the opportunity, including as the '12th man' helping our defense. I suppose my expectations of fans are too high...but, as I said...I'm among the best of the best at Chiefs Crowd, and if we can do it...so can they, otherwise...why bother calling themselves a Chiefs fan at all?

As fans we are limited with how we can help our team win...two of those ways is cheering a job well done, and helping our defense with crowd noise.
:yahoo:

[Connie Jo]

The shoe fits.... I am 100% sure Todd Haley did NOT just decided to wake up hating D. Bowe one morning and decided to hold a grudge agaist D. Bowe. The guy had problems in the off season that got him demoted in an attempt to motivate D. Bowe to work harder at becoming the elite player we all think he could be.

You are all point the blame at the wrong person. Haley and TONY Gonzalez have tried to teach a strong work ethic to D. Bowe, yet D. Bowe continues to think he is a talent that needs no improvement.

As for Haley Yelling at people. Have you watched him since about the Pittsburgh Game.... He isn't yelling at the players like he was. In fact, I saw him yelling at Bobby Wade after making a catch Against Cincy and thought What is this about and then both smiled and gave each other a big High Five. He is an emotional coach, and while I thought he was chewing out Wade, he was praising him, even after their argument a couple weeks ago they are mending their differences.

Keep blaming Todd Haley, that is fine, but as far as I am concerned 100% of the problem is the immaturity and ego of one over paid Wr.

Sorry for the delay in reply, I'm a bit behind, haha.

No, you have it wrong...I am not blaming Haley, and did not blame Haley for being pissed at Bowe, he has a right to be, as Bowe has dropped too many passes, etc.. Heck, I was upset with Bowe too.

My post was in general related to fairness and balance related to criticism and praise, and it being critical for success of a team, player, and coach.

I have been in favor of Haley since day one, defended as such, and continue to have faith in him at this early stage of his first year as a head coach. Considering what he had to work with as the new HC of a losing Chiefs team...I think he's done okay so far, and has indeed made improvements. I'm looking forward to his being our HC in 2010, and believe we will see far more improvement as a result of Coach Haley.

That said...I also believe as I told Canada...that the greatest HC's in the NFL appear to be those who find an equal balance with criticism and praise.

Yes, I have noticed that Haley seems to be settling down some within himself as the season has come to an end. Possibly the pressures in the beginning of the season with all that was expected of him have also settled down within him, and as a result we will see more of that balance from him necessary for team success related to balanced criticism and praise.

I'm glad Haley is a 'get in your face' if you screw up big time coach...as I believe the Chiefs need that reality check, but I also believe they need a coach with some compassion, and capable of an equal level of praise when a player performs well. The latter appears to be of more benefit than not with contributing to a successful NFL team.

Haley has details of players and game play that I don't...so to judge him on such I have not done, and will not do. I only judge what I've personally witnessed or have knowledge to...such as the public display of criticism vs praise.

GO CHIEFS 2010! :yahoo:

[Canada]

That sort of thing should be pretty commonplace, shouldn't it?

Its week 17 isn't it? All the players on his 4-12 team are still [playing their as off for him are't they?

Yesterday was one great game. It gives me alot of hope moving forward.

But it was still one game, and he has had player issues throughout the season, not for just one game.

Yeah, they all seemed to have quit on him. His arch enemy DJ sure showed him. (almost like he wanted to prove to the coach that he deserved to play) I hate when coaches do that to players.

Hopefully, guys like DJ have finally done enough to get Haley to come down from his high horse and become a part of this team, along with them.

From where I am sitting, you are the guy on the high horse. You are like one of those people who hates management because they are management. You have not even begun to give Haley a remote chance (almost like you claim he does not do for players)

He has a long offseason to reevaluate himself, even if he hasn't. I just hope that he isn't sitting on the same values that you seem to be.

Yeah, be accountable for your mistakes. Our values are all messed up.

Because, if what you do makes a player on your team perform less, then you need to try something else.

Did we win on Sunday 44-24?
Did Cassel throw any picks?
Did DJ return two picks for TDs?
Did Charles run for 259 yards?

Yeah, they are performing less. They really stuck it to Haley. I saw him try and slap a player in the face on the sideline but the player threw his hand up and it lookedlike a high five. What an awful coach and human being Todd Haley is!! :lamende:

[chief31]

Did we win on Sunday 44-24?
Did Cassel throw any picks?
Did DJ return two picks for TDs?
Did Charles run for 259 yards?

Yeah, they are performing less. They really stuck it to Haley. I saw him try and slap a player in the face on the sideline but the player threw his hand up and it lookedlike a high five. What an awful coach and human being Todd Haley is!! :lamende:

Lol. It was one game. Shall I grab the twelve losses to shove back at you?

Feel free to keep living on one game, and ignoring the overall team. But I refuse to ignore all of the problems that he has had with these players.

But, not to worry. He will likely just get rid of whatever other players he doesn't like.



Its week 17 isn't it? All the players on his 4-12 team are still [playing their as off for him are't they?


Were they "playing their asses off" when The Browns humiliated them with the running game?

Again... It was ONE really good game.



Yeah, they all seemed to have quit on him. His arch enemy DJ sure showed him. (almost like he wanted to prove to the coach that he deserved to play) I hate when coaches do that to players.


Yeah. Becasue that guy certainly never should have been on the field. Lmao.

He had the best defensive perfomance in the league yesterday. Narrowly edging out, one, Bernard Pollard.

But, as you can speculate that he did it to earn Haley's respect, I can speculate that he did it in spite of the fact that he has been treated poorly.

Was he supposed to be rushing the passer on one of those big plays? Did he openly defy his coaches?


From where I am sitting, you are the guy on the high horse. You are like one of those people who hates management because they are management. You have not even begun to give Haley a remote chance (almost like you claim he does not do for players)


Right on. Easy assumption to make, considering how hateful I am toward all management. I have really ridden that Bill Cowher guy to no ends. And I have never been quiet in my hatred of Dick Vermiel either. Then there's Marty Shottenheimer. Man have I ever thrashed that guy! WOW!



Yeah, be accountable for your mistakes. Our values are all messed up.


Oh, you seem to have confused the word "accountable" for the word "humiliated".


Not sure why. The two words aren't really that similar.:D

Hopefully though, we can just lay that "Management hater" section to rest and keep it on topic from here on.

[Canada]

Lol. It was one game. Shall I grab the twelve losses to shove back at you?

Feel free to keep living on one game, and ignoring the overall team. But I refuse to ignore all of the problems that he has had with these players.

Living on one game? Are you serious? The game was 2 days ago. My point was they we're playing their as off in that game. They played their s off in the twelve losses you would like to shove back. IT DOES NOT SEEM LIKE HE HAS LOST HIS TEAM AT ALL. Now do you get it?

But, not to worry. He will likely just get rid of whatever other players he doesn't like.

Do you honestly believe that he is gonna jeopardize his career because he does not get along with someone? Seriously? He is getting rid of players who don't want to be here and players who do not buy into the system. Find me a head Coach in the NFL who would not do that.

Were they "playing their asses off" when The Browns humiliated them with the running game?

Looked like they were when they scored 34 points.

Again... It was ONE really good game.




Yeah. Becasue that guy certainly never should have been on the field. Lmao.

He had the best defensive perfomance in the league yesterday. Narrowly edging out, one, Bernard Pollard.

Same Bernard Pollard who missed a "big hit" and gave up a TD or the one who gave up the big 15 yard penalty on a late hit. I believe the announcers exact words were "guess who....again"

But, as you can speculate that he did it to earn Haley's respect, I can speculate that he did it in spite of the fact that he has been treated poorly.

And I know you will because you can not give Haley any credit for anything he does right.

Was he supposed to be rushing the passer on one of those big plays? Did he openly defy his coaches?

:lol::lol::lol::lol: I guess you just have no real response for that. He accidentally picked those two balls off and returned them for TDs. Or is it that he picked them off just to make Haley mad. The did have quite the fight after those TDs didn't they. :funnypost:

Right on. Easy assumption to make, considering how hateful I am toward all management. I have really ridden that Bill Cowher guy to no ends. And I have never been quiet in my hatred of Dick Vermiel either. Then there's Marty Shottenheimer. Man have I ever thrashed that guy! WOW!

Nope, I just go by the ones i have seen since I have been a member here and I do not recall a single coach, co ordinator or GM that you have liked.

Oh, you seem to have confused the word "accountable" for the word "humiliated".

You hit the nail on the head. He yells. You dont know what he says and you don't know how often, but he yells. Therefore he must be a terrible coach. IF you watch other games around the league....coaches sometimes yell. I've seen it with my own eyes. I was even at a game once and I heard a coach yell so I know its true.
Not sure why. The two words aren't really that similar.:D

Hopefully though, we can just lay that "Management hater" section to rest and keep it on topic from here on.

You obviously have a knack for turning every decision that Haley makes seem like a huge mistake that he made. You even blam him for LJ and Tony G leaving. Two guys who have wanted out before Haley even thought about coming to KC. You are so biased against him because he yelled at some guys that you can't give him a chance at all or recognize when something is going well. I'm not saying the guy is perfect, but I am willing to give him a chance. He has done some good things. And if u think he has lost this team then why are they still playing their as$es off for him in Week 17?

[chief31]

Living on one game? Are you serious? The game was 2 days ago. My point was they we're playing their as off in that game. They played their s off in the twelve losses you would like to shove back. IT DOES NOT SEEM LIKE HE HAS LOST HIS TEAM AT ALL. Now do you get it?


No. Because they looked to have given up in most every game this season.


Do you honestly believe that he is gonna jeopardize his career because he does not get along with someone? Seriously? He is getting rid of players who don't want to be here and players who do not buy into the system. Find me a head Coach in the NFL who would not do that.


Sell them on the system. That is his job. Don't fire them before you ever get to play a game.

And do I honestly think that someone would make a mistake that jepordizes their career? Yeah. I see it all the time. Mistakes happen.

But you are no less speculating that the players "didn't want to be here" or were "not buying into the system", than one who says he didn't get along with them.

The difference is that he has had that problem with so many players, that even if they weren't buying into the system, he was failing at getting them to do so.

If were just one or two guys, then that's one thing. But he has issues with several players, that have either spoken up about it, or exposed the issues on the sidelines.


Looked like they were when they scored 34 points.


So they looked to be giving it their all (key word)when they allowed 351 rushing yards?


Same Bernard Pollard who missed a "big hit" and gave up a TD or the one who gave up the big 15 yard penalty on a late hit. I believe the announcers exact words were "guess who....again"


:lol: Yeah that worthless guy who had the game winning Int, and a fumble recoveruy for a TD as his team needed a win to try and secure a playoff spot. Yup. That guy.


And I know you will because you can not give Haley any credit for anything he does right.

How about I use some Canada-technique? Awwwww. Poor wittle guy, Haley. :D

Like it or not, he has made alot of mistakes this season.

And it is difficult to give him too much credit for Charles opening up the offense, when he was trying like hell to keep LJ in front of him.

Seems like he may have had a savior forced upon him.

When you are 4-12 and have so many bad issues occuring, there is alot more negative to observe than positive.


Nope, I just go by the ones i have seen since I have been a member here and I do not recall a single coach, co ordinator or GM that you have liked.

I know you like to do some partying. But this has to be a flat-out lie.

You really have no recollection of me ever saying anything positive about Cowher, Vermiel, nor anyone else?

I don't believe you.


You hit the nail on the head. He yells. You dont know what he says and you don't know how often, but he yells. Therefore he must be a terrible coach. IF you watch other games around the league....coaches sometimes yell. I've seen it with my own eyes. I was even at a game once and I heard a coach yell so I know its true.

Do you really think that the players are getting in his face because he yelled something that wasn't demeaning, or humiliating?

He has made enemies of a number of his teammates. Just accept it. They have told us about it in some cases.


You obviously have a knack for turning every decision that Haley makes seem like a huge mistake that he made. You even blam him for LJ and Tony G leaving. Two guys who have wanted out before Haley even thought about coming to KC.

A.) I never tried to blame Haley for TG leaving. Just mentioned that alot of players have left since he got here, and included him because he did.

B.) While few have wanted to be rid of LJ for longer than I, he is still a player that spoke up against Haley. If he were alone in that, then it wouldn't make a difference in the world to me. But he wasn't. He is just one of several examples.


You are so biased against him because he yelled at some guys that you can't give him a chance at all or recognize when something is going well. I'm not saying the guy is perfect, but I am willing to give him a chance. He has done some good things. And if u think he has lost this team then why are they still playing their as off for him in Week 17?

I am not biased against Haley. You are just wrong there.

And he may well have already been working on his issues with players. If he has, then good. If he hasn't then he still needs to.

You're not saying the guy is perfect, you are just reaching for every excuse imaginable for the mistakes he has made, as if they didn't exist.

Now...

You say that I I am just biased and not giving him any chance, etc., etc.

But I have always maintained that I have not given up on him. In this thread, and several others.

And that I am too harsh in my criticism of Haley, or that I "Have a knack for turning every decision that Haley makes seem like a huge mistake that he made."

But there are so many things that I don't get on him about. I have not taken up issue with his play-calling, since he stopped catering to LJs play-calling.

I don't complain about FB passes, or anything like that.

And if I could get a break from being painted this way, I'd like to say that he does seem to be getting things going alot better in regards to alot of the issues I have had with him, as the season came to a close.

Ad, as always, I hope he has learned from his mistakes in his first season, and will improve as we move forward.

I have had the few major issues that I think he needs to fix. And I don't go reaching on other subjects.

I openly play both sides with the whole issue, because there are two sides of it.

However, it seems to me, and maybe I have missed some things, that you completely coddle Haley and refuse to make a single note of anything negative ragarding him. In fact, you argue against every last thing that I have noted here. Seeming to not acknowledge a single error.

Where is the bias?

[Canada]

However, it seems to me, and maybe I have missed some things, that you completely coddle Haley and refuse to make a single note of anything negative ragarding him. In fact, you argue against every last thing that I have noted here. Seeming to not acknowledge a single error.

Where is the bias?

Why is it coddling to agree with what he is trying to do? I have acknowledged several times that he has made mistakes. Every coach does. I have argued every thing you said because those things are the topic of dicusion. IF I had agreed with everythingyou posted then we would not be having this conversation. I choose to have a little faith in our head coach and give him a fair shot before crucifying the guy. Some guys had a problem with him....did it ever occur to you that the problem might be those guys and not the coach? We are not discussing a single error. If u told me that you think it was a stupid move to go for a bootleg on 4th and goal on the 1 in the fubbalo game...then I would agree with you. But you are b pretty much saying that Haley is not a good coach and that is where I disagree with you. Pointing out his flaws would be pretty pointless of me since that is what you have been doing. So just because I did not post any of his "errors" does not mean I have never acknowledged them. I just have not been doing it in this thread.

[Chiefster]

I would like to interject some observations here and state my appreciation of Canada, chief31 and Connie. Guys & gal: I just want to say to all three of you that you all have been exhibiting the very thing these boards, especially the "Hardcore..." forum, was made for; lively discussion with intelligent and varying points of view stated in a respectful manor.

Thanks to all of you! :D

[chief31]

Why is it coddling to agree with what he is trying to do? I have acknowledged several times that he has made mistakes. Every coach does. I have argued every thing you said because those things are the topic of dicusion. IF I had agreed with everythingyou posted then we would not be having this conversation. I choose to have a little faith in our head coach and give him a fair shot before crucifying the guy. Some guys had a problem with him....did it ever occur to you that the problem might be those guys and not the coach?

That has occurred to me, several times. But, as it happened more and more, and with different players, I noticed a trend, that leans more toward one person being the issue, than a variety of people.


We are not discussing a single error. If u told me that you think it was a stupid move to go for a bootleg on 4th and goal on the 1 in the fubbalo game...then I would agree with you. But you are b pretty much saying that Haley is not a good coach and that is where I disagree with you. Pointing out his flaws would be pretty pointless of me since that is what you have been doing. So just because I did not post any of his "errors" does not mean I have never acknowledged them. I just have not been doing it in this thread.

You are just reading far too much into it. I am not saying that he is a bad coach. I am saying that he done alot of things wrong, in his only season of being a head coach. That alot of things need to be fixed.

He created an issue with Brian Waters that, for now, seems to have been taken care of.

He created an issue with bernard Pollard, which did not get resolved.

He created an issue with Derrick Johnson, that may, or may not, still be an issue.

He created an issue with Dwayne Bowe, that may, or may not, still be an issue.

He created an issue with Larry Johnson, which was not resolved. (Thank God.)

And so on...

But he also had an issue with Jamaal Charles. Now what if Charles had reacted as LJ or Pollard did?

How close was that situation to becoming a much bigger issue?

While it seems that that reltionship has been salvaged, he has been causing issues (At least he has done his part in creating the issues) with our most talented players, and it has costed him in some of those situations.

Even a nice guy, as Charles seems to be, will eventually revolt, if you don't learn to deal with him as a man, as well as a player.

And, if you do make an enemy of a player, it isn't always easy to get them to rejoin you as a teammate.

The jury is still out on DJ and D-Bowe. He may still have a price to pay for the mistakes he has made with his management of the players on this team.

One of our biggest team needs this offseason is at SS. Sure would be nice if we had a young guy who was playing as well as Bernard Pollard to, at the very least, minimize the need at that position, so we could address something else, instead.

You can try all you want to critcize Pollard and ignore his success. But he has been huge for Houston, and he sealed a big win against The Patriots, that almost helped them into the playoffs.

And, if Haley had done a better job of MANAGEMENT in that situation, he could have MANAGED to keep that guy on this team.

You want me to give Haley some credit? He seems to have salvaged his relationship with Jamaal Charles. Good management job there.:yahoo:

[kilobytes]

I would like to interject some observations here and state my appreciation of Canada, chief31 and Connie. Guys & gal: I just want to say to all three of you that you all have been exhibiting the very thing these boards, especially the "Hardcore..." forum was made for; lively discussion with intelligent and varying points of view stated in a respectful manor.

Thanks to all of you! :D
.........

[Chiefster]

.........


????

[josh1971]

.........


????

*************

[Chiefster]

*************


:lol::lol::lol:

[Vandelay]

:lol::lol::lol:
Chiefster, my golf game needs some work. Do you have any ideas?:D

[Chiefster]

Chiefster, my golf game needs some work. Do you have any ideas?:D

:lol:

Well I think that lily986526 did but I wouldn't take his advise. :D

[Pro_Angler]

That has occurred to me, several times. But, as it happened more and more, and with different players, I noticed a trend, that leans more toward one person being the issue, than a variety of people.



You are just reading far too much into it. I am not saying that he is a bad coach. I am saying that he done alot of things wrong, in his only season of being a head coach. That alot of things need to be fixed.

He created an issue with Brian Waters that, for now, seems to have been taken care of.

He created an issue with bernard Pollard, which did not get resolved.

He created an issue with Derrick Johnson, that may, or may not, still be an issue.

He created an issue with Dwayne Bowe, that may, or may not, still be an issue.

He created an issue with Larry Johnson, which was not resolved. (Thank God.)

And so on...

But he also had an issue with Jamaal Charles. Now what if Charles had reacted as LJ or Pollard did?

How close was that situation to becoming a much bigger issue?

While it seems that that reltionship has been salvaged, he has been causing issues (At least he has done his part in creating the issues) with our most talented players, and it has costed him in some of those situations.

Even a nice guy, as Charles seems to be, will eventually revolt, if you don't learn to deal with him as a man, as well as a player.

And, if you do make an enemy of a player, it isn't always easy to get them to rejoin you as a teammate.

The jury is still out on DJ and D-Bowe. He may still have a price to pay for the mistakes he has made with his management of the players on this team.

One of our biggest team needs this offseason is at SS. Sure would be nice if we had a young guy who was playing as well as Bernard Pollard to, at the very least, minimize the need at that position, so we could address something else, instead.

You can try all you want to critcize Pollard and ignore his success. But he has been huge for Houston, and he sealed a big win against The Patriots, that almost helped them into the playoffs.

And, if Haley had done a better job of MANAGEMENT in that situation, he could have MANAGED to keep that guy on this team.

You want me to give Haley some credit? He seems to have salvaged his relationship with Jamaal Charles. Good management job there.:yahoo:

I believe he had issues with people asside from waters that was justified. It was the people who didnt want to conform and that would affect the overall team that is no longer in the picture.
I too have spoken up about by concerns with Haley but it was his first year as a HC and with us, he got a late start to build through the draft.
I will in fact make up my mind on him By game 6 in 2010. I truly believe we are headed towards a 10 win season because the players who were tough enough to last the first year with Haley is the kind of players we want on this team.

[Canada]

.........


????

This was just a very weak attempt at humour. His idea of intelligent conversation is professing his man love for LJ all over the boards!!



p.s. fu*k LJ

[Hayvern]

I would like to interject some observations here and state my appreciation of Canada, chief31 and Connie. Guys & gal: I just want to say to all three of you that you all have been exhibiting the very thing these boards, especially the "Hardcore..." forum, was made for; lively discussion with intelligent and varying points of view stated in a respectful manor.

Thanks to all of you! :D

Do I sense a little positive reinforcement here?

:lol:

[Connie Jo]

I would like to interject some observations here and state my appreciation of Canada, chief31 and Connie. Guys & gal: I just want to say to all three of you that you all have been exhibiting the very thing these boards, especially the "Hardcore..." forum, was made for; lively discussion with intelligent and varying points of view stated in a respectful manor.

Thanks to all of you! :D

You're welcome, and thanks for the praise!

The most important aspect of being a Chiefs fan that we all share is we want to be #1 and bring the Lombardi back to Arrowhead!! It's certainly well overdue for a return visit, and hopefully it will enjoy it's place at Arrowhead so much, it will decide to make it's visit an extended one! hahaha :D

[Connie Jo]

PS: Thanks Honda for starting a very interesting thread! I enjoyed reading through it all very much, as well as participating! I needed a distraction right now...trust me! :)

[kilobytes]

This was just a very weak attempt at humour. His idea of intelligent conversation is professing his man love for LJ all over the boards!!



p.s. fu*k LJ
Every time someone brings him up in a negative way, disrespectfully, I will defend him. Same goes for whoever your favorite players are that you always liked to watch playing football.

I just thought that post was funny because all you have responded to me was the opposite of that. But most of your other posts, I guess, are more like that.

If anyone bashes Succop, Colquitt, or Waters etc I will defend them.

[Chiefster]

Do I sense a little positive reinforcement here?

:lol:

Dat be it! :D


You're welcome, and thanks for the praise!

The most important aspect of being a Chiefs fan that we all share is we want to be #1 and bring the Lombardi back to Arrowhead!! It's certainly well overdue for a return visit, and hopefully it will enjoy it's place at Arrowhead so much, it will decide to make it's visit an extended one! hahaha :D

Could NOT agree more! :D

[Chiefster]

Every time someone brings him up in a negative way, disrespectfully, I will defend him. Same goes for whoever your favorite players are that you always liked to watch playing football.

I just thought that post was funny because all you have responded to me was the opposite of that. But most of your other posts, I guess, are more like that.

If anyone bashes Succop, Colquitt, or Waters etc I will defend them.

Nicely put.

It certainly makes more sense then "........".

[tornadospotter]

Every time someone brings him up in a negative way, disrespectfully, I will defend him. Same goes for whoever your favorite players are that you always liked to watch playing football.

I just thought that post was funny because all you have responded to me was the opposite of that. But most of your other posts, I guess, are more like that.

If anyone bashes Succop, Colquitt, or Waters etc I will defend them.
Waters is all wet, Succop is, well Mr Irrelevant, he got where he is by being Succop. Coquitt, is quitter that failed, should have been pro bowl along with Succop.
:D Bash away.:D