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jap1
01-05-2010, 08:19 PM
Waters thinks Chiefs don’t need offensive-line upgrade - KansasCity.com (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1664205-p2.html)

In summary, he says that the Offensive line is not as bad as everyone thinks. Especially if you consider the 2nd half of the season.

He also implies that he was not nearly as unhappy as people make him out to be.

Thoughts?

josh1971
01-05-2010, 08:26 PM
I think one of the most telling things is this:


Chiefs quarterbacks were sacked 37 times in the first 10 games, but Cassel went down only eight times in the final six. In Denver, he wasn’t sacked for the first time all season.I still do believe that we could use some depth there, despite the improved play. I mean, JC's yards and those sack stats can't be anything but proof of improvement. I also add that one thing about an offensive line I've noticed over the years is that the longer they play together, the better they seem to be, IF you have talented players there. I think with O'Callaghan, Waters, and Albert you definitely have talent. Jury's still out for me on Wade Smith and Rudy Niswanger.

But taking a look at how the offense, and how the line, improved into the second half of the season, I'd be much happier seeing the team bolster their swiss cheese pass coverage(Berry), and to get a sack-meister.

jb

jap1
01-05-2010, 08:34 PM
I think one of the most telling things is this:



I still do believe that we could use some depth there, despite the improved play. I mean, JC's yards and those sack stats can't be anything but proof of improvement.

But taking a look at how the offense, and how the line, improved into the second half of the season, I'd be much happier seeing the team bolster their swiss cheese pass coverage(Berry), and to get a sack-meister.

jb

True, but also consider this quote from BW:


Talentwise, I donít think Iíve ever played with anybody as talented as (Charles) is, with the explosive ability he has. He has the ability to make a 5-yard run a 50-yard run just like that.

ďHe has the ability to make us look better.

I think we could use an upgrade or two. Specifically on the right side.

Vandelay
01-05-2010, 08:36 PM
The good thing is it sounds like he will be back next year. Maybe playing for Haley isn't so bad after all.

pbatrucker
01-05-2010, 08:38 PM
OC is a must upgrade. I wish Ndukwe had played more at RG. I would like to know how good he is at that position.

josh1971
01-05-2010, 08:41 PM
True, but also consider this quote from BW:



I think we could use an upgrade or two. Specifically on the right side.

I considered it, but watching the games, you can see that there were holes opening up for Charles- the difference was, it took LJ a day and a half to get to and through the hole, whereas JC quickly zips through there, so they don't get the chance to get clogged up with defenders.

I'm not going to argue that we need some depth and upgrade (specifically at right guard).

jb

honda522
01-05-2010, 08:42 PM
We definatley need a Center.

matthewschiefs
01-05-2010, 08:48 PM
The o line was getting better at the end of the season Charles had a lot to do with it but he was not it. So i would agree that the o line is not as bad as alot of people think.

I am not surprised that he is not as unhappy as people think. The media likes to take something little and make into something huge.

honda522
01-05-2010, 08:57 PM
I wonder if the OL sucked cause Johnson was being a dick and they didn't respect him, they respected JC more and it created more holes. Think about it....

matthewschiefs
01-05-2010, 08:58 PM
I wonder if the OL sucked cause Johnson was being a dick and they didn't respect him, they respected JC more and it created more holes. Think about it....

It would make sense why the running game got so much better when LJ left but why was Cassle takeing such a beating then? But its possible.

Chief Tyler
01-05-2010, 09:05 PM
Waters thinks Chiefs don’t need offensive-line upgrade - KansasCity.com (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1664205-p2.html)

In summary, he says that the Offensive line is not as bad as everyone thinks. Especially if you consider the 2nd half of the season.

He also implies that he was not nearly as unhappy as people make him out to be.

Thoughts?

Did you guys see what the Jets line was doing to the Bengals this past week? They made Thomas "Just Average" Jones look stellar yet again. I didn't see many plays where the Bengals weren't collectively pushed 2-3 yards off the LoS. In my opinion our line isn't good enough until we can do that consistently again.

josh1971
01-05-2010, 09:14 PM
The media likes to take something little and make into something huge.

So do people on message boards. :D

honda522
01-05-2010, 09:20 PM
It would make sense why the running game got so much better when LJ left but why was Cassle takeing such a beating then? But its possible.
Cassel seemed to get better protection, but still isn't great.

kilobytes
01-05-2010, 09:31 PM
I wonder if the OL sucked cause Johnson was being a dick and they didn't respect him, they respected JC more and it created more holes. Think about it....
If it were true then shame on them. There were rumors they did the same thing with Huard awhile back because they wanted Croyle. But I don't think so at all to either of them.
Its because they finally stopped moving linemen around and just let them build together. Cassel is having much more time now and Charles doesn't really need a much of a line. But we still can hardly run up the middle with anyone. Also a FB that can block could help. Underrated position.

Ryfo18
01-05-2010, 10:41 PM
I would hope we address other needs before OL. I see bigger holes at MLB and S. Even a back to spell Charles is almost more important right now and a WR.

Chiefster
01-05-2010, 11:12 PM
The thing I worry about is that last year the o-line, seemingly, showed the same kind of improvement and was not really addressed in the off season; as a result we got an o-line this season that yielded 30 sacks in the first eight games of the season.

honda522
01-05-2010, 11:17 PM
The thing I worry about is that last year the o-line, seemingly, showed the same kind of improvement and was not really addressed in the off season; as a result we got an o-line this season that yielded 30 sacks in the first eight games of the season.
Word.

Chiefster
01-05-2010, 11:22 PM
Word.

:bananen_smilies046:

DMN
01-06-2010, 12:33 AM
I think that free agency this off season will tell a lot of what the haley/pioli think of our o line. I see them making some moves. I am very interested to see what we can land at the fifth pick. I would love an impact player on defense. The tyson jackson move will take time i know. A stud LB or S would be great.

chief31
01-06-2010, 04:00 AM
I considered it, but watching the games, you can see that there were holes opening up for Charles- the difference was, it took LJ a day and a half to get to and through the hole, whereas JC quickly zips through there, so they don't get the chance to get clogged up with defenders.

I'm not going to argue that we need some depth and upgrade (specifically at right guard).

jb

What I think helped out was the fact that Charles's speed makes it to where you have to send him to the outside to utilize his ability to beat LBs to the edge.

Teams had been stacking the middle so heavily, because they knew that was where we were going with it.

But, once you start burning them to the outside, they can no longer stack so heavily to the inside, which opens up more room there.

And with those, every so minor, shifts, it will also have an effect on the pass rush, and the ability to recognize it, based on where a defender lines up.





The o line was getting better at the end of the season Charles had a lot to do with it but he was not it. So i would agree that the o line is not as bad as alot of people think.

I am not surprised that he is not as unhappy as people think. The media likes to take something little and make into something huge.

I am glad that he is not unhappy. hat is good to know.

However, he certainly WAS unhappy at one time, as he tried to get traded.

But again, glad that he has resolved whatever issues he had.


I would hope we address other needs before OL. I see bigger holes at MLB and S. Even a back to spell Charles is almost more important right now and a WR.

I wouldn't be too confident in the o-line. Not based on the few games that they pulled it together. Nor based on Brian Waters' assesment.

Brian Waters has been saying that the o-line is in good shape every year.

I have definitely backed off of how much o-line I think we need. But not that far back.

Hayvern
01-06-2010, 02:56 PM
The reason the OL showed an improvement is because our running game improved. Charles was definately an upgrade over Johnson who I still believe was being the way he was so he could be traded.

Anyway, when the running game gets better, the defenses have to respect that and cannot blitz on every play which takes a lot of the load off the offensive line in the pass rush.

However, when the blitz does come, as we saw even against Denver, then the pressure is fast and furious and the line is still not able to pick that up and block. These guys might get better, but I still think we are one or two blocks away from being even a decent OL.

slimdagreat
01-06-2010, 03:01 PM
I wonder if the OL sucked cause Johnson was being a dick and they didn't respect him, they respected JC more and it created more holes. Think about it....

I think it was more about LJ not being that good than the OL not blocking for him. Up until he was named the full time starter, JC was still running a 5 yards a carry, even last season.

Its more about JC being better than LJ.

slimdagreat
01-06-2010, 03:03 PM
The reason the OL showed an improvement is because our running game improved. Charles was definately an upgrade over Johnson who I still believe was being the way he was so he could be traded.

Anyway, when the running game gets better, the defenses have to respect that and cannot blitz on every play which takes a lot of the load off the offensive line in the pass rush.

However, when the blitz does come, as we saw even against Denver, then the pressure is fast and furious and the line is still not able to pick that up and block. These guys might get better, but I still think we are one or two blocks away from being even a decent OL.


I agree 100%. JC running wild forced defenses to respect him.

I do think we need Okung desperately. Albert can move over to RT, or RG, but depth at OL is never a bad thing.

That being said my wish list for the 1st round is in this order

1. Okung
2. Dez Bryant
3. Eric Berry

KottkeKU
01-06-2010, 06:46 PM
Okung is looking like he might tumble in the draft due to recent performance in his bowl game. Bruce Campbell may be a surprise and be the first lineman off the board come late April if he does well in the combine.

Id still take Berry over anyone this draft. And Dez Bryant? That would be a huge reach, and an effective waste of a cornerstone pick in my opinion...

drstandley31
01-07-2010, 11:34 AM
Oh, and one more thing, at his age who's going to give him a bigger contract? Hmmmm, get paid in a place where my family has made a home, where I'm respected, and where if I keep my big F'ing mouth shut and be a team player I might have a lot of influance over what happens. And might extend my playing future a few extra years because everybody knows my limits and will handle me properly. Tough Choice!

Chiefster
01-07-2010, 11:45 AM
The reason the OL showed an improvement is because our running game improved. Charles was definately an upgrade over Johnson who I still believe was being the way he was so he could be traded.

Anyway, when the running game gets better, the defenses have to respect that and cannot blitz on every play which takes a lot of the load off the offensive line in the pass rush.

However, when the blitz does come, as we saw even against Denver, then the pressure is fast and furious and the line is still not able to pick that up and block. These guys might get better, but I still think we are one or two blocks away from being even a decent OL.

Given his demeanor I would not put it past him to under perform in order to get out of KC which is what, I believe, he has wanted for quite some time.