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View Full Version : Do we really need to draft a LT?



yashi
01-06-2010, 10:33 AM
I started thinking (scary, right?). Our offensive line was actually very good during the final 6 games of the season, giving up only 8 sacks (compared to 37 through the first 10 games) and opening things up enough for Charles to rush for about 1000 yards over the final half of the season. Our offensive line coach was just fired yesterday as well, so there will be someone new coaching them up next season.

Maybe offensive line isn't as big of a need as we thought it was. Certainly at some point we should draft a potential replacement for the aging Waters and probably a better center, but maybe Albert is the right LT for us given the production at the end of the year.

I've been as much of an advocate for drafting a LT like Russell Okung with our 1st round pick as anyone, but now I'm starting to wonder if it wouldn't be a better idea to go with the best defensive player available.

That could be the safety Berry who may or may not be there, or guys we haven't really talked about as much like CB Joe Haden or ILB Rolando McClain. Haden is going to be a shutdown corner in the league and the thought of a Flowers/Haden combo with Carr playing the nickel would be one of the best CB trios in the league. McClain could be an elite tackling machine and defensive leader who also has the ability to blitz and get to the QB, which is something we need. I don't think ILB is much of a need as other positions if we keep DJ around though. I'll still be interested in seeing how he does in the BCS Championship.

I think right now Berry is the optimal choice. He's an elite talent, definitely one of the 2 or 3 best players in the draft and he would be replacing Mike Brown, once a great a player but injuries and age have slowed him down to where he can't take the aggressive angles and make the plays that he used to. Hopefully he's available when we pick, meaning the Rams and/or Redskins draft QBs, and the Lions/Bucs both go DT or OT.

How are you guys feeling about our first pick right now?

Ryfo18
01-06-2010, 10:58 AM
I'm feeling the exact same way as you. At #5 Berry should definitely be the first target. I think we should be able to find decent talent for the line in the 2nd round with one of our 2 picks.

pbatrucker
01-06-2010, 11:18 AM
Right on about the OL and I can see Haden also.
Check this guy out for a SS. Harry Coleman LSU
6'2" 206 lbs with 4.4 speed. Started at safety his junior year and lead the team in tackles with 71. Moved to OLB his SR year, finished 9 TFL and ished 3rd on team with 77 tackles. Had 9 TFL and 4 sacks. If he can play OLB in the SEC and be productive, he's one tough SOB. Good in coverage also. Probably available in the 3rd round.

TheLateGreat#58Fan
01-06-2010, 11:57 AM
I think most people have either Berry or Suh as the top rated players coming out.
Berry would be an awesome pick, the question is just whether he will be there or not.
Our run blocking has improved but pass blocking seems to still need some improvement.
Haden, Flowers, and Carr has a nice ring I will agree there. 5 may be a little high for him
Javier Arenas projected Rd.3- that kid can play, he might be a great fit there

If you take Okung at LT where do you put albert? We have a Pro-Bowl calibur LG already.
I hope we get Berry

matthewschiefs
01-06-2010, 12:17 PM
I agree the O line is not the biggest need on this team right now. They were decent at the end of the season. The D was what was hurting us so its best if we grab the best defensive player thats out there. O line usely can still be picked up in the later rounds.

honda522
01-06-2010, 12:22 PM
If we draft a left tackle, move Albert to right guard. Or just make the new guy switch sides.

I still say we need draft a Center. Snapping the ball isn't even the problem. Niswanger can't block.

pbatrucker
01-06-2010, 12:42 PM
If we draft a left tackle, move Albert to right guard. Or just make the new guy switch sides.

I still say we need draft a Center. Snapping the ball isn't even the problem. Niswanger can't block.
I watched Von Miller, Texas A&M beat Okung like a ******* step child. Okung didn't look good in the bowl game either.
The one game Wade Smith started in place of Niswanger, I thought he played a better game than Niswwanger has all year. I realize JC is the major reason the OL got better, but wasn't Wade th given the RG position about the same time? Either FA or draft we need a OC or OG depending on what they decide to do with Smith.

yashi
01-06-2010, 12:47 PM
I watched Von Miller, Texas A&M beat Okung like a ******* step child. Okung didn't look good in the bowl game either.
The one game Wade Smith started in place of Niswanger, I thought he played a better game than Niswwanger has all year. I realize JC is the major reason the OL got better, but wasn't Wade th given the RG position about the same time? Either FA or draft we need a OC or OG depending on what they decide to do with Smith.

I was going to say Wade seemed to do a really good job at RG, and that position got a lot better in general once Goff went on IR.

figcrostic
01-06-2010, 01:01 PM
I started thinking (scary, right?). Our offensive line was actually very good during the final 6 games of the season, giving up only 8 sacks (compared to 37 through the first 10 games) and opening things up enough for Charles to rush for about 1000 yards over the final half of the season. Our offensive line coach was just fired yesterday as well, so there will be someone new coaching them up next season.

Maybe offensive line isn't as big of a need as we thought it was. Certainly at some point we should draft a potential replacement for the aging Waters and probably a better center, but maybe Albert is the right LT for us given the production at the end of the year.

I've been as much of an advocate for drafting a LT like Russell Okung with our 1st round pick as anyone, but now I'm starting to wonder if it wouldn't be a better idea to go with the best defensive player available.

That could be the safety Berry who may or may not be there, or guys we haven't really talked about as much like CB Joe Haden or ILB Rolando McClain. Haden is going to be a shutdown corner in the league and the thought of a Flowers/Haden combo with Carr playing the nickel would be one of the best CB trios in the league. McClain could be an elite tackling machine and defensive leader who also has the ability to blitz and get to the QB, which is something we need. I don't think ILB is much of a need as other positions if we keep DJ around though. I'll still be interested in seeing how he does in the BCS Championship.

I think right now Berry is the optimal choice. He's an elite talent, definitely one of the 2 or 3 best players in the draft and he would be replacing Mike Brown, once a great a player but injuries and age have slowed him down to where he can't take the aggressive angles and make the plays that he used to. Hopefully he's available when we pick, meaning the Rams and/or Redskins draft QBs, and the Lions/Bucs both go DT or OT.

How are you guys feeling about our first pick right now?

I think it would be wise to pick up a backup OL in case Waters leaves in a couple years, but Im with you and I pretty much made the same thread Is our defensive line worse then our Offensive Line? - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12264)

honda522
01-06-2010, 01:47 PM
I watched Von Miller, Texas A&M beat Okung like a ******* step child. Okung didn't look good in the bowl game either.
The one game Wade Smith started in place of Niswanger, I thought he played a better game than Niswwanger has all year. I realize JC is the major reason the OL got better, but wasn't Wade th given the RG position about the same time? Either FA or draft we need a OC or OG depending on what they decide to do with Smith.
I don't think Wade is that good. We need a franchise center so to speak. Look here. Colts have Saturday Patriots - Dan Koppen. Viks - John Sulivan

QB-Center relationships are important. Plus you need your center to be able to read the D just as well as the QB. When you see the Center point out, he is alerting the QB of something, so he can check down.

yashi
01-06-2010, 02:56 PM
Speaking of Von Miller, he's a guy we could look at in the 2nd round. He was the nation's leading sacker and is projected as a 3-4 OLB with elite pass rushing skills, but maybe a bit undersized.

pbatrucker
01-06-2010, 03:08 PM
I don't think Wade is that good. We need a franchise center so to speak. Look here. Colts have Saturday Patriots - Dan Koppen. Viks - John Sulivan

QB-Center relationships are important. Plus you need your center to be able to read the D just as well as the QB. When you see the Center point out, he is alerting the QB of something, so he can check down.
In my latest mock I have Marice Pouncey OC, FL penciled in the 2nd round. He's a JR but I think he will declare. Tennant from BC or the kid from Hawaii will probably be available in the 3rd RD.

jap1
01-06-2010, 04:49 PM
In my latest mock I have Marice Pouncey OC, FL penciled in the 2nd round. He's a JR but I think he will declare. Tennant from BC or the kid from Hawaii will probably be available in the 3rd RD.

I have heard that this year's draft class is pretty weak on Centers. I think our best bet for upgrading at the C position is Free Agency. Im not sure what is out there, but I am sure there is someone worth throwing some money at.

pbatrucker
01-06-2010, 06:36 PM
I have heard that this year's draft class is pretty weak on Centers. I think our best bet for upgrading at the C position is Free Agency. Im not sure what is out there, but I am sure there is someone worth throwing some money at.
If Pouncey and Dowd come out it would be stronger than usual.

Xanathol
01-06-2010, 07:07 PM
Right on about the OL and I can see Haden also.
Check this guy out for a SS. Harry Coleman LSU
6'2" 206 lbs with 4.4 speed. Started at safety his junior year and lead the team in tackles with 71. Moved to OLB his SR year, finished 9 TFL and ished 3rd on team with 77 tackles. Had 9 TFL and 4 sacks. If he can play OLB in the SEC and be productive, he's one tough SOB. Good in coverage also. Probably available in the 3rd round.
As someone who bleeds purple & gold ( and really loves to cheer on NFL Tigers ), I'd have to recommend against him any earlier than the 5th. He didn't play the ball very well @ SS and we felt his 'undersizedness' at times this season at OLB. Chavis, the DC now at LSU, likes to use a tweener OLB in his packages to avoid subs and Harry put up numbers, but he should of put up a lot more as he was in position but failed to make a play. A project draftee as best imo.

70 chiefsfan70
01-06-2010, 07:32 PM
Speaking of Von Miller, he's a guy we could look at in the 2nd round. He was the nation's leading sacker and is projected as a 3-4 OLB with elite pass rushing skills, but maybe a bit undersized.

I like Miller a lot, and if hes still there at pick #37 I would be excited to get him, He would be a great addition.

KottkeKU
01-06-2010, 07:35 PM
i say no to Haden. good player, but we have so many more needs than CB... And its not like the AFC West is overloaded on WR's... Brandon Marshall is really the only one other than V.Jackson that we need to worry about and i think you stop Rivers and most other QBs by getting a pass rush (not shut down CBs)

Plus Pioli drafted Donald Washington in the 4th round last year who was supposed to be one of our better picks (not that that says anything...) which puts us with Flowers and Carr (def. serviceable) with Washington and Travis Daniels as backups or nickel, 4th respectively. Daniels actually played pretty decent for a scrub the last few games there... if we draft CB over safety this year i will be furious...

70 chiefsfan70
01-06-2010, 07:44 PM
I would like to see a defensive player drafted a the #5 spot. Berry as first choice if hes still there, which I believe he will be. Haden and McClain look good as well.

I not as sold on Okong as most are, but it would be nice to have him on the team.

honda522
01-06-2010, 09:18 PM
Well I figure, the first pick in the draft this year for us will be up to Haley, Poili and Wiess...maybe a little bit of Crennel in there as well.

pbatrucker
01-06-2010, 09:34 PM
I was on the Curry bandwagon last year and as of right now I'm loading up the McClain wagon. After all, didn't we draft another LB from Alabama a few years ago that worked out pretty good. Now who was that, Dt or something like that.

hometeam
01-06-2010, 09:44 PM
I agree with some of the sentiments in this thread.

I think everyone noticed an improvement in the OL as the season came to a close, in fact, I am about this close || to jumping on the lets draft eric berry bandwagon. Dude is a beast!

I think with the buzz being generated in KC from stuff like JC, Weiss, Crennel (hopefully :x) and Pioli will attract more free agents than going back to when Vermeil was here, making it more likely we can do something with the OL in FA, and that way we can fill a need at safety with the best player in the draft.

honda522
01-07-2010, 12:27 AM
I think just about any player from Texas is worth getting.

kcmostwanted
01-07-2010, 01:03 AM
Don't worry about Russell Okung, he might not be the first Tackle taken. Anthony Davis from Rutgers and Bruce Campbell from Maryland seem to be pretty high on people's list as well.

I think Albert deserves another year at LT because [remember] he was converted from College Guard to NFL Tackle.

As much as I love Berry I don't really like his size...and that's why I think McClain should be the pick. He's smart, big, fast and extremely physical... @ 6'4" 260 I can see this guy stuffing the run like a young Urlacher.

1 of our 2nds must be on a RT/G/C and the other one must go to a speedy, sure handed, multi-purpose WR or a S.
*crossing my fingers for Golden Tate to fall to us at the top of the 2nd round :-) or Brown from Central Mich later in the draft.

Springfield Chiefs
01-07-2010, 01:49 AM
Our OL may have improved later in the season but they're still not that good and we need a LT so we can move Albert to guard. We have too much money invested in Cassel to have anything but the best blocking for him. Weis is going to want to throw a lot so it's important that we get better pass blockers.

matthewschiefs
01-07-2010, 01:53 AM
Our OL may have improved later in the season but they're still not that good and we need a LT so we can move Albert to guard. We have too much money invested in Cassel to have anything but the best blocking for him. Weis is going to want to throw a lot so it's important that we get better pass blockers.

I am not sure that Weis will throw it much more then what we saw this year. Weis has never had a RB with the abilty of Jamal Charles. Even when he was with the pats. I am sure they will use Charles as much as they can and thats a good thing. GO CHIEFS!!!!!!

Springfield Chiefs
01-07-2010, 02:01 AM
I am not sure that Weis will throw it much more then what we saw this year. Weis has never had a RB with the abilty of Jamal Charles. Even when he was with the pats. I am sure they will use Charles as much as they can and thats a good thing. GO CHIEFS!!!!!!

Charlie is no fool, I am sure he knows he can't run Charles to death like he did to Corey Dillon in 2004 because Charles isn't built like that. Though I am sure Charles will be used in a lot of ways a la Kevin Faulk. Weis will have Charles lining up all over the place.

Coach
01-07-2010, 02:18 AM
I think the OL gave up less sacks late in the season, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were winning the battles upfront.

I think the Chiefs need to spend a bare minumum of 1 of their first 2 picks on the OL. We need some depth on the OL. If we had lost Albert or Waters towards the end of the season, things would have been worse. The Chiefs will lose OL throughout the course of the season and need to draft some depth. Especially considering Waters is probably very near the end of his career and didn't play all that well for most of this year.

AkChief49
01-07-2010, 02:21 AM
I am not sure that Weis will throw it much more then what we saw this year. Weis has never had a RB with the abilty of Jamal Charles. Even when he was with the pats. I am sure they will use Charles as much as they can and thats a good thing. GO CHIEFS!!!!!!
very true. I'm not sold on this O-line improving that much as it probably has more to do with J. Charles being straight up a fast, elusive back. Once you establish a running game the passing game naturally opens up. The defense all of a sudden is not loading 8 in the box on you and coming with their ears pinned back. Someone posted that at least one of our 2nd round picks be a G,C, RT and I could not agree more. We have a chance to improve the trench on the O-side of the ball, do it!

kilobytes
01-07-2010, 03:52 AM
We need to draft at least a RG or RT. I would like to draft a C as well. I have no clue about anyone in the draft so I can't comment on anyone cause I don't watch school sports. Its too late to move Albert. I pushed for him to got to RG at the beginning of the season asap but it's just too late and it will set things back. He's doing better over there so no need for an LT.

chiefnut
01-07-2010, 11:44 AM
the O line has improved, we desperately need a NT and maybe better DE's. if we can trade down, assuming there are some takers, we can still get line help on both sides.

honda522
01-07-2010, 11:48 AM
I think the OL gave up less sacks late in the season, but that doesn't necessarily mean they were winning the battles upfront.

I think the Chiefs need to spend a bare minumum of 1 of their first 2 picks on the OL. We need some depth on the OL. If we had lost Albert or Waters towards the end of the season, things would have been worse. The Chiefs will lose OL throughout the course of the season and need to draft some depth. Especially considering Waters is probably very near the end of his career and didn't play all that well for most of this year.
Well said coach. :bananen_smilies046:

drstandley31
01-07-2010, 12:45 PM
OL. We've drafted D lineman after D Lineman going back to Vermile. And most have been a bust, except the guy we stupidly sent to Minn. So Draft the best OL we can get, worry about DL through FA, Trade, or later rounds. Get that solid! Then start on WR or LB's. Gawd we have a lot of holes.

matthewschiefs
01-07-2010, 12:47 PM
OL. We've drafted D lineman after D Lineman going back to Vermile. And most have been a bust, except the guy we stupidly sent to Minn. So Draft the best OL we can get, worry about DL through FA, Trade, or later rounds. Get that solid! Then start on WR or LB's. Gawd we have a lot of holes.

Very ture. I think unless a mirical happens and Suh is somehow there when we pick then it might be best to trade down if possible. There are so many spots we need help on anther pick or to would be helpful.

Seek
01-07-2010, 01:38 PM
In my opinion the offense Line needs the most attention. Yes, they got better as the season went along, but I strongly believe that is 90% because of LJ getting cut and Charles taking his place.

J. Charles made the offensive line better by smaller holes faster that collasped by the time LJ got to them. He also made more out of busted plays than LJ.

Since Charleas was more productive in the running game. The Chiefs were rarely in 3-15 situation that killed them the entire first half of the season. This kepts us out of predictable passing situations.

The addition of Chambers also opened a viable passing threat that was missing the first half of the season which decreased the amount of time Cassel was holding the ball.

I do think the offensive line improved as the personel improved as well as play calling, but there are still not play off quality.

Disagree with this if you like but I would start with Brian Waters.. I can't tell you how many times I saw him on instant replay looking back at his guy making a play.

Offensive line is still a major priority for this team.

nigeriannightmare
01-07-2010, 04:26 PM
Look at the teams we played the last 6 games of the season, offensive line is where we do need the most attention.

captainamerica
01-07-2010, 05:38 PM
With our first pick there are only 3 players that I believe we should be targeting and I put them in this order 1. Berry 2. Okung 3. Suh. If one of these guys aren't available than we should trade down in my opinion.