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View Full Version : early draft trade rumors... dealin with Detroit?



sammyboy909
02-10-2010, 04:33 PM
So the trade scenario i've recently seen being bandied about on the interweb is what if Detroit called up and offered to switch picks in the first round (their second for our fifth overall) and their second or third rounder for Glenn Dorsey, and maybe a late round pick or switch. For discussion let's just assume the best case scenario, i.e. first round switch and the lions second round pick (34th overall) for Dorsey.

Regardless of the specific details, the basics of the trade seem to make sense for Detroit if St. Louis decides to draft a quarterback. Then the lions offers us Suh in exchange for Gunther's old guy Dorsey, and the lions trade down expecting to grab Okung to replace the often inconsistent and injured jeff backus at LT. The upside for us would be we grab many people's highest rated player in this draft, and retain the 34th, 36th, and 50th overall picks.

This is a potentially attractive proposition, and I admit there are draft scenarios that could play out where I would consider this a given (for instance, Suh becomes a life-long chief and hall-of-famer, and somehow we manage to pick up Mike Iupati, Terrance Cody, and Brandon Spikes or Taylor Mays in the second round). The problem is there are simply no guarantees about these later picks and ultimately we would be rolling the dice to replace Dorsey with Suh. We would be plugging in Suh as a 3-4 D-end and hoping he transitions well, whereas Dorsey already made the transition quite well and showed the potential to become a cornerstone of this defense for years to come.

The beauty of this rumor is that it we can't know whether or not its realistic until the minute we know what St. Louis does with the first pick, so it could a topic of argument amongst Dorsey-loving/Dorsey-hating chiefs fans for quite awhile. So what does everyone think?

jacko58
02-10-2010, 04:39 PM
So the trade scenario i've recently seen being bandied about on the interweb is what if Detroit called up and offered to switch picks in the first round (their second for our fifth overall) and their second or third rounder for Glenn Dorsey, and maybe a late round pick or switch. For discussion let's just assume the best case scenario, i.e. first round switch and the lions second round pick (34th overall) for Dorsey.

Regardless of the specific details, the basics of the trade seem to make sense for Detroit if St. Louis decides to draft a quarterback. Then the lions offers us Suh in exchange for Gunther's old guy Dorsey, and the lions trade down expecting to grab Okung to replace the often inconsistent and injured jeff backus at LT. The upside for us would be we grab many people's highest rated player in this draft, and retain the 34th, 36th, and 50th overall picks.

This is a potentially attractive proposition, and I admit there are draft scenarios that could play out where I would consider this a given (for instance, Suh becomes a life-long chief and hall-of-famer, and somehow we manage to pick up Mike Iupati, Terrance Cody, and Brandon Spikes or Taylor Mays in the second round). The problem is there are simply no guarantees about these later picks and ultimately we would be rolling the dice to replace Dorsey with Suh. We would be plugging in Suh as a 3-4 D-end and hoping he transitions well, whereas Dorsey already made the transition quite well and showed the potential to become a cornerstone of this defense for years to come.

The beauty of this rumor is that it we can't know whether or not its realistic until the minute we know what St. Louis does with the first pick, so it could a topic of argument amongst Dorsey-loving/Dorsey-hating chiefs fans for quite awhile. So what does everyone think?

:sign0087: I have to agree with you on this. I haven't though about moving up just us moving back, but if we get suh or berry and there second rounder for dorsey i'd take it. But this if we can get a new defensive end aka peppers. we get peppers opposite of tyson and possibly suh in the middle plus have three second round picks. i like it. but if it dosen't happen id be ok as long as we take care of our needs in draft and free agency and don't sit on our hands like we did with herm in control

Hayvern
02-10-2010, 04:45 PM
So the trade scenario i've recently seen being bandied about on the interweb is what if Detroit called up and offered to switch picks in the first round (their second for our fifth overall) and their second or third rounder for Glenn Dorsey, and maybe a late round pick or switch. For discussion let's just assume the best case scenario, i.e. first round switch and the lions second round pick (34th overall) for Dorsey.

Regardless of the specific details, the basics of the trade seem to make sense for Detroit if St. Louis decides to draft a quarterback. Then the lions offers us Suh in exchange for Gunther's old guy Dorsey, and the lions trade down expecting to grab Okung to replace the often inconsistent and injured jeff backus at LT. The upside for us would be we grab many people's highest rated player in this draft, and retain the 34th, 36th, and 50th overall picks.

This is a potentially attractive proposition, and I admit there are draft scenarios that could play out where I would consider this a given (for instance, Suh becomes a life-long chief and hall-of-famer, and somehow we manage to pick up Mike Iupati, Terrance Cody, and Brandon Spikes or Taylor Mays in the second round). The problem is there are simply no guarantees about these later picks and ultimately we would be rolling the dice to replace Dorsey with Suh. We would be plugging in Suh as a 3-4 D-end and hoping he transitions well, whereas Dorsey already made the transition quite well and showed the potential to become a cornerstone of this defense for years to come.

The beauty of this rumor is that it we can't know whether or not its realistic until the minute we know what St. Louis does with the first pick, so it could a topic of argument amongst Dorsey-loving/Dorsey-hating chiefs fans for quite awhile. So what does everyone think?

This makes sense if and ONLY if we don't think Dorsey is a good fit for us. I know a lot of things are said during the season, but the truth is that when Dorsey was out, we had some of our worse games on defense, so it stands to reason that management does see Dorsey as a difference maker.

Now if the conventional wisdom is the Suh is an immediate upgrade over Dorsey in our 3-4 scheme, then I would see us going with it. Personally, I think the defense will be much improved next year with whatever players we do have because of the upgrades being made in coaching. I actually like Krumrie, but Pandergast was a horrible DC.

I am just not sure that the Chiefs are going to be that interested in going after Suh, we have plenty of spots to fill and the cost to Detroit seems a little extreme for Dorsey.

sammyboy909
02-10-2010, 05:15 PM
I am just not sure that the Chiefs are going to be that interested in going after Suh, we have plenty of spots to fill and the cost to Detroit seems a little extreme for Dorsey.

I agree, I don't believe we would actually get this kind of optimal scenario. I also think that Dorsey really is a good fit in our scheme, so the idea of picking up Okung with the fifth pick might be too hard to pass on.

I should point out the latest Walter football mock draft has the most desirable chiefs draft I have seen yet, it goes:

Round 1: Okung (LT)
Round 2a: Terrance Cody (NT). 2b: Maurkice Pouncey (G/C)
Round 3: Sergio Kindle (OLB)
Round 4: Larry Asante (SS)

Talk about filling holes! I haven't completely made up my mind on this trade, and it will certainly change as the draft nears and the free-agency picture develops, but i gotta say, a starting Dline of Dorsey, Cody,Jackson, and a starting O-line something like Okung, Albert, Pouncey, Waters and O'Callahan seems be pretty solid.

jacko58
02-10-2010, 05:20 PM
I agree, I don't believe we would actually get this kind of optimal scenario. I also think that Dorsey really is a good fit in our scheme, so the idea of picking up Okung with the fifth pick might be too hard to pass on.

I should point out the latest Walter football mock draft has the most desirable chiefs draft I have seen yet, it goes:

Round 1: Okung (LT)
Round 2a: Terrance Cody (NT). 2b: Maurkice Pouncey (G/C)
Round 3: Sergio Kindle (OLB)
Round 4: Larry Asante (SS)

Talk about filling holes! I haven't completely made up my mind on this trade, and it will certainly change as the draft nears and the free-agency picture develops, but i gotta say, a starting Dline of Dorsey, Cody,Jackson, and a starting O-line something like Okung, Albert, Pouncey, Waters and O'Callahan seems be pretty solid.

a second for cody would upset me i think he should go in the third second would be reaching for a fat dt and theres a difference in a big dt/nt and a fat d/nt look at ryan sims

sammyboy909
02-10-2010, 05:31 PM
There is a lot of risk involved with Cody... haha even with some analysts saying they are worried he will "eat himself out of the nfl", but in terms of potential he is the number one NT in this draft and could be a steal. Dominant run-stuffing, block-eating nose tackles are a rare thing of beauty in this league, and Cody could be just that. Plus the guy is a natural athlete even at his size. I watched him block two field goals against Tennessee to win that game. Plus with Haley's conditioning program I'm betting he could start the season at 345. Yes, it's a gamble, but I say roll the dice... that is, of course, unless we go after Wilfork in free-agency which I would be absolutely overjoyed to see.

KottkeKU
02-10-2010, 06:59 PM
the only draft scenario i would like is to see us swap PICKS with detroit, and pick up their 17 overall i think (their 2nd of two first round choices) along with a 3rd or 4th rounder for our no.5 overall... this would give us an additional pick in the first 4 rounds, and would also put us in range to get Dan Williams in the middle of the firs round. He is the best NT in the draft, and if we can't find someone to get in there, this defense won't be anything special. We would then have 2 second round choices, 1 (or 2) third round choices, and 1 (or 2) fourth round choice.

And we get to keep Dorsey : )

That would give us a 3-4 defensive line that would be the best in the league on paper for many, many years. We can use our later round picks on OL, S, and WR's..pick up a RB late in the draft to spell J.Charles... along with our soft schedule for 2010-2011, we could be in line for a really good season boys : )

matthewschiefs
02-10-2010, 07:09 PM
I think IF the rams dont take Suh and the Lions are willing to do this trade the Chiefs HAVE to do it. Suh has looked good and hes a player I think the chiefs would be better off haveing even if they do have to let go of dorsey. Suh would help the biggest need on Defense thats pass rush. Yes its a gamble takeing a unproven rookie but I think its a move the chiefs should do.

Chief Tyler
02-10-2010, 08:56 PM
the only draft scenario i would like is to see us swap PICKS with detroit, and pick up their 17 overall i think (their 2nd of two first round choices) along with a 3rd or 4th rounder for our no.5 overall... this would give us an additional pick in the first 4 rounds, and would also put us in range to get Dan Williams in the middle of the firs round. He is the best NT in the draft, and if we can't find someone to get in there, this defense won't be anything special. We would then have 2 second round choices, 1 (or 2) third round choices, and 1 (or 2) fourth round choice.

And we get to keep Dorsey : )

That would give us a 3-4 defensive line that would be the best in the league on paper for many, many years. We can use our later round picks on OL, S, and WR's..pick up a RB late in the draft to spell J.Charles... along with our soft schedule for 2010-2011, we could be in line for a really good season boys : )

That's what I was thinking too. Could you imagine coming away with Suh, Williams, Weatherspoon and Kindle all in one draft? The defense would be set!

We might be overvaluing Dorsey, but if we were able to come away with a pick swap and their 17th, my dream draft looks something like one of these two:

1a (Detroit). Suh (DE) (McCoy if StL takes Suh)
1b (Detroit). Williams (DT)
2a. Weatherspoon (LB)
2b. Pouncey (C)
3. Kindle (LB)
4. Eric Decker (WR)
5. Robert Johnson (S)

or maybe

1a. Berry (S)
1b. Bulaga (T)
2a. Odrick (DE)
2b. Cody (DT)
3. Shipley (WR)
4. Eric Olsen (C)
5. Selvie (LB)

and for a little KSU love, Joshua Moore at CB in the later rounds on both.

pbatrucker
02-10-2010, 09:03 PM
I don't like Cody at all. He is not athletic, cannot cover the area between the tackles and is often beaten at the point of attack by one blocker.
I can't remember where I read it but they wewre saying Suh had two knee operations while in college. If true you can exspect him to drop in the draft.

sammyboy909
02-10-2010, 09:20 PM
I think IF the rams dont take Suh and the Lions are willing to do this trade the Chiefs HAVE to do it. Suh has looked good and hes a player I think the chiefs would be better off haveing even if they do have to let go of dorsey. Suh would help the biggest need on Defense thats pass rush. Yes its a gamble takeing a unproven rookie but I think its a move the chiefs should do.

I do think Suh would prove the better pass rusher and has an overall higher ceiling for potential in our system than Dorsey, which is saying a lot, especially given how big I was (and still am) on Dorsey when we drafted him.

So this got me thinking. If somehow it worked out and we did accept the trade. whats the best case scenario for our three picks in the second round? I still say we stick with Cody and Pouncey, but who do we target with detroit's 34th overall? If somehow Iupati falls I would jump all over him. There is also Vladimir Ducasse who is a mauler and could easily play at guard or RT.

This scenario gives us the following lines: starting DL- Jackson, Cody, Suh. OL- Albert, Waters, Pouncey, Ducasse, O'Callahan. These are solid lines; adding a pass rush dynamic to the DL and flexibility to the OL (Albert and Ducasse can both play T/G and Pouncey can play C/G).

My mind still isn't made up but it is fun to consider the possibilities.

matthewschiefs
02-10-2010, 09:31 PM
I do think Suh would prove the better pass rusher and has an overall higher ceiling for potential in our system than Dorsey, which is saying a lot, especially given how big I was (and still am) on Dorsey when we drafted him.

So this got me thinking. If somehow it worked out and we did accept the trade. whats the best case scenario for our three picks in the second round? I still say we stick with Cody and Pouncey, but who do we target with detroit's 34th overall? If somehow Iupati falls I would jump all over him. There is also Vladimir Ducasse who is a mauler and could easily play at guard or RT.

This scenario gives us the following lines: starting DL- Jackson, Cody, Suh. OL- Albert, Waters, Pouncey, Ducasse, O'Callahan. These are solid lines; adding a pass rush dynamic to the DL and flexibility to the OL (Albert and Ducasse can both play T/G and Pouncey can play C/G).

My mind still isn't made up but it is fun to consider the possibilities.

This is a very fun time of the year to daydream about what you would want your favorite football team to do in free agenacy and the draft.

The only downside I will point out in makeing this trade is we will have to wait for Suh to devolpe as an NFL player. That is a step back in some ways. Dorsey was getting better so there is some risk. But its fun to think about.

tornadospotter
02-10-2010, 09:40 PM
I don't like Cody at all. He is not athletic, cannot cover the area between the tackles and is often beaten at the point of attack by one blocker.
I can't remember where I read it but they wewre saying Suh had two knee operations while in college. If true you can exspect him to drop in the draft.
I do not think so, if he did it was not in the last two years.

jacko58
02-10-2010, 09:48 PM
i like dorsey still i wish hed be a good nt hes a alright end but he will always just be alright unless tyson jackson can do more then take on a blocker. if we get wilfork i'll be happy with the line bein dorsey wilfork and jackson but we have to upgrade this spot to do any damage. i like seeing someone sayin we should take weatherspoon in the second. i love this lb hes all over the place good tackles good hands he did everything for the mizzou d

matthewschiefs
02-10-2010, 10:00 PM
i like dorsey still i wish hed be a good nt hes a alright end but he will always just be alright unless tyson jackson can do more then take on a blocker. if we get wilfork i'll be happy with the line bein dorsey wilfork and jackson but we have to upgrade this spot to do any damage. i like seeing someone sayin we should take weatherspoon in the second. i love this lb hes all over the place good tackles good hands he did everything for the mizzou d

I think IF we do manage to get Wilfork then we will stick with Dorsey. It would be a great upgrade for this Defense.
:chiefs:

Coach
02-10-2010, 11:20 PM
So you'd rather have Suh and the the Lions 2nd round pick vs. Dorsey and our #5 pick where we can take Berry, Okung or McClain?

Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and Berry
Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and Okung
Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and McClain.

No thanks. I'd rather keep Dorsey and get any one of those three instead of taking another rookie DE(Suh) that isn't a good fit for a 3-4 DE and an unknown 2nd rd pick. This team needs a NT, not a new DE.

chief31
02-10-2010, 11:38 PM
So you'd rather have Suh and the the Lions 2nd round pick vs. Dorsey and our #5 pick where we can take Berry, Okung or McClain?

Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and Berry
Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and Okung
Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and McClain.

No thanks. I'd rather keep Dorsey and get any one of those three instead of taking another rookie DE(Suh) that isn't a good fit for a 3-4 DE and an unknown 2nd rd pick. This team needs a NT, not a new DE.

I'll add, eventhough it has been mentioned repeatedly, that Suh isn't really a 3-4 DE type.

He is a pass-rusher. 3-4 DEs are not.

If he was here, it seems like he would need to be turned into a LB, or just learn to play DE as more of a stat-free guy.

That is, unless we plan to, either, have our 3-4 DC attempt a 4-3 defense, or abandon the fundamental design of the 3-4 for some new experiment within a 3-4 set-up.

In any of those scenarios, you are diminishing the value of, either, the player, or the defensive scheme.

I would look at any of those scenarios as a horrible gamble.

tornadospotter
02-10-2010, 11:56 PM
I would take Suh, but I am very much a Suh fan.

tornadospotter
02-11-2010, 12:02 AM
NFL Videos: Mayock top 5: DT (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d8164db44/Mayock-top-5-DT)

jacko58
02-11-2010, 12:08 AM
So you'd rather have Suh and the the Lions 2nd round pick vs. Dorsey and our #5 pick where we can take Berry, Okung or McClain?

Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and Berry
Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and Okung
Suh and 2nd rd pick vs. Dorsey and McClain.

No thanks. I'd rather keep Dorsey and get any one of those three instead of taking another rookie DE(Suh) that isn't a good fit for a 3-4 DE and an unknown 2nd rd pick. This team needs a NT, not a new DE.

if berry is there at five id love it. and i wasn't sayin i want dorsey gone i still believe in him but we must upgrade our nt spot and i don't trust cody to solve it. mcclain im still unsure of id rather take berry with our first weatherspoon with one of our seconds and then open to suggestions past that, of course i'd love for wilfork and we need o line and wr

sammyboy909
02-11-2010, 12:19 AM
i like dorsey still i wish hed be a good nt hes a alright end but he will always just be alright unless tyson jackson can do more then take on a blocker. if we get wilfork i'll be happy with the line bein dorsey wilfork and jackson but we have to upgrade this spot to do any damage. i like seeing someone sayin we should take weatherspoon in the second. i love this lb hes all over the place good tackles good hands he did everything for the mizzou d

Agreed. I think signing Wilfork should be THE priority of the offseason. A d-line of Jackson, Wilfork, Dorsey could develop into a league elite.

Also Weatherspoon has it all. Intangibles, team leader, work horse and the skills to boot. I just see him going somewhere late in the first round. If we sign Wilfork and he is somehow available to us in the second round I say its a great pick, assuming we can upgrade our interior line with Pouncey later that same round.

Coach
02-12-2010, 12:59 AM
Agreed. I think signing Wilfork should be THE priority of the offseason. A d-line of Jackson, Wilfork, Dorsey could develop into a league elite.

Also Weatherspoon has it all. Intangibles, team leader, work horse and the skills to boot. I just see him going somewhere late in the first round. If we sign Wilfork and he is somehow available to us in the second round I say its a great pick, assuming we can upgrade our interior line with Pouncey later that same round.

That D-line would have great potential. You seem very focused on Wilfork. I think it's unlikely at best. But just for giggles, would you be willing to give up our #5 pick to NE to sign Wilfork to a long term deal. Let's say 5 yrs, $50+ million, with $25 mm guaranteed.

Then come back in the 2nd round and take a ILB like Weatherspoon with our first 2nd round pick. Then take either Taylor Mays at Safety or possibly a WR like Golden Tate with our second 2nd round pick. Then a guard or center in the 3rd?

I think that deal could get done, but not sure if NE wants the financial burden of a Top 5 pick.

chief31
02-12-2010, 07:34 AM
That D-line would have great potential. You seem very focused on Wilfork. I think it's unlikely at best. But just for giggles, would you be willing to give up our #5 pick to NE to sign Wilfork to a long term deal. Let's say 5 yrs, $50+ million, with $25 mm guaranteed.

Then come back in the 2nd round and take a ILB like Weatherspoon with our first 2nd round pick. Then take either Taylor Mays at Safety or possibly a WR like Golden Tate with our second 2nd round pick. Then a guard or center in the 3rd?

I think that deal could get done, but not sure if NE wants the financial burden of a Top 5 pick.

Again, I agree.

And I think that that may be a fair enough deal. I would have to consider that trade.

sammyboy909
02-12-2010, 12:38 PM
That D-line would have great potential. You seem very focused on Wilfork. I think it's unlikely at best. But just for giggles, would you be willing to give up our #5 pick to NE to sign Wilfork to a long term deal. Let's say 5 yrs, $50+ million, with $25 mm guaranteed.

Then come back in the 2nd round and take a ILB like Weatherspoon with our first 2nd round pick. Then take either Taylor Mays at Safety or possibly a WR like Golden Tate with our second 2nd round pick. Then a guard or center in the 3rd?

I think that deal could get done, but not sure if NE wants the financial burden of a Top 5 pick.

wow.
I love the specifics of the Wilfork deal you proposed since i think 5 yrs 50 million is almost exactly the money he should command. I also agree with you it's unlikely to get done.

However, aside from the fact NE wants nothing to do with trading up, I would never consider that deal for our #5 overall considering the following: Even if NE slaps Wilfork with the franchise tag, they did the same thing to Cassel last year and we landed him for an early second rounder and inked him at the same level of money, and he is a "franchise" QB (not that i don't believe in #7) but NT doesn't command the same level of $$$.

So here is a counterproposal. Wilfork for our #36 overall and a 4th/5th round pick. This is a dream scenario for me, then I say take Okung first. Then if Weatherspoon is somehow available for our #50 then jump on him. If he's not (He won't, neither will my other guy Mike Iupati) then hopefully Pouncey is available to solidify the interior OL (I still believe a team lives and dies in the trenches).

I'm much less worried about drafting a receiver or a safety high. I'm still high on Bowe and I am coveting Steve Breatson (Ex-Hailey-Cardinal) as another highly capable offseason acquisition.

Any counter-scenarios you'd like to propose, Coach?

Pro_Angler
02-12-2010, 04:58 PM
Berry will be there at 5 why trade??

whatwasthat?
02-12-2010, 06:28 PM
That's what I was thinking too. Could you imagine coming away with Suh, Williams, Weatherspoon and Kindle all in one draft? The defense would be set!

We might be overvaluing Dorsey, but if we were able to come away with a pick swap and their 17th, my dream draft looks something like one of these two:

1a (Detroit). Suh (DE) (McCoy if StL takes Suh)
1b (Detroit). Williams (DT)
2a. Weatherspoon (LB)
2b. Pouncey (C)
3. Kindle (LB)
4. Eric Decker (WR)
5. Robert Johnson (S)

or maybe

1a. Berry (S)
1b. Bulaga (T)
2a. Odrick (DE)
2b. Cody (DT)
3. Shipley (WR)
4. Eric Olsen (C)
5. Selvie (LB)

and for a little KSU love, Joshua Moore at CB in the later rounds on both.

there is no way weatherspoon falls to 2
he was impressive at the senior bowl and he is too athletic to drop due to a bad combine

Xanathol
02-14-2010, 07:13 PM
Being an infrequent vistor to this board, it seems I'm always seeing something involving a rumor with a Dorsey trade. As KC fans, what would be the opinion of trading with the Saints for one of their LTs for Dorsey? The Saints have Jamal, a pro-bowler, and Bushrod, who started all season during the Super Bowl run. Chances are imo, that neither wants to ride the pine and both are in need of resigning. What ya'll think?

beefsupreme
02-16-2010, 02:02 AM
wow.
I love the specifics of the Wilfork deal you proposed since i think 5 yrs 50 million is almost exactly the money he should command. I also agree with you it's unlikely to get done.

However, aside from the fact NE wants nothing to do with trading up, I would never consider that deal for our #5 overall considering the following: Even if NE slaps Wilfork with the franchise tag, they did the same thing to Cassel last year and we landed him for an early second rounder and inked him at the same level of money, and he is a "franchise" QB (not that i don't believe in #7) but NT doesn't command the same level of $$$.

So here is a counterproposal. Wilfork for our #36 overall and a 4th/5th round pick. This is a dream scenario for me, then I say take Okung first. Then if Weatherspoon is somehow available for our #50 then jump on him. If he's not (He won't, neither will my other guy Mike Iupati) then hopefully Pouncey is available to solidify the interior OL (I still believe a team lives and dies in the trenches).

I'm much less worried about drafting a receiver or a safety high. I'm still high on Bowe and I am coveting Steve Breatson (Ex-Hailey-Cardinal) as another highly capable offseason acquisition.

Any counter-scenarios you'd like to propose, Coach?

I don't like the counter proposal that you are suggesting. How can you say the lions would be willing to give up a swap of picks in the first and their second for dorsey and their second when you are placing a value on Wilfork of a second and a later round pick? Why wouldn't the lions just offer the patriots their second and keep their first. Wilfork is going to cost more then what you are proposing.
Another trade rumor I have heard with lions is:
Dorsey + filler

for

#34, Julian Peterson, and later round swaps.

whatwasthat?
02-16-2010, 01:03 PM
Being an infrequent vistor to this board, it seems I'm always seeing something involving a rumor with a Dorsey trade. As KC fans, what would be the opinion of trading with the Saints for one of their LTs for Dorsey? The Saints have Jamal, a pro-bowler, and Bushrod, who started all season during the Super Bowl run. Chances are imo, that neither wants to ride the pine and both are in need of resigning. What ya'll think?


i think dealing dorsey is a very dumb idea...we have so many weak positions (especially on defense) we cant afford to trade off players with talent...imagine the run defense from the buffalo and cleveland games but throughout an entire season...that sends shivers down my spine

Coach
02-16-2010, 08:46 PM
wow.
I love the specifics of the Wilfork deal you proposed since i think 5 yrs 50 million is almost exactly the money he should command. I also agree with you it's unlikely to get done.

However, aside from the fact NE wants nothing to do with trading up, I would never consider that deal for our #5 overall considering the following: Even if NE slaps Wilfork with the franchise tag, they did the same thing to Cassel last year and we landed him for an early second rounder and inked him at the same level of money, and he is a "franchise" QB (not that i don't believe in #7) but NT doesn't command the same level of $$$.

So here is a counterproposal. Wilfork for our #36 overall and a 4th/5th round pick. This is a dream scenario for me, then I say take Okung first. Then if Weatherspoon is somehow available for our #50 then jump on him. If he's not (He won't, neither will my other guy Mike Iupati) then hopefully Pouncey is available to solidify the interior OL (I still believe a team lives and dies in the trenches).

I'm much less worried about drafting a receiver or a safety high. I'm still high on Bowe and I am coveting Steve Breatson (Ex-Hailey-Cardinal) as another highly capable offseason acquisition.

Any counter-scenarios you'd like to propose, Coach?

I think it's optimistic to think that NE would be willing to trade Wilfork for an 2nd and 4th round pick. I would guess that they could find other offers in the late 1st round. So, would you be willing to trade both 2nd round picks for Wilfork?

Making our draft day haul looking something like:
1st - Eric Berry(S) or Okung(OL)
2nd - Wilfork(NT)
3rd - Brandon Spikes(ILB, Florida) or OL depending on the 1st round pick.
4th - Darrell Stuckey(SS, Kansas)

I think giving up both 2nd round picks for Wilfork could get the deal done as well.



Being an infrequent vistor to this board, it seems I'm always seeing something involving a rumor with a Dorsey trade. As KC fans, what would be the opinion of trading with the Saints for one of their LTs for Dorsey? The Saints have Jamal, a pro-bowler, and Bushrod, who started all season during the Super Bowl run. Chances are imo, that neither wants to ride the pine and both are in need of resigning. What ya'll think?
I would take Jamal Brown, but Bushrod would not be an upgrade over Albert IMO. Bushrod was largely aided by having double team help against both Jared Allen and Dwight Freeney.

rammstein
02-17-2010, 01:28 PM
So the trade scenario i've recently seen being bandied about on the interweb is what if Detroit called up and offered to switch picks in the first round (their second for our fifth overall) and their second or third rounder for Glenn Dorsey, and maybe a late round pick or switch. For discussion let's just assume the best case scenario, i.e. first round switch and the lions second round pick (34th overall) for Dorsey.

Regardless of the specific details, the basics of the trade seem to make sense for Detroit if St. Louis decides to draft a quarterback. Then the lions offers us Suh in exchange for Gunther's old guy Dorsey, and the lions trade down expecting to grab Okung to replace the often inconsistent and injured jeff backus at LT. The upside for us would be we grab many people's highest rated player in this draft, and retain the 34th, 36th, and 50th overall picks.

This is a potentially attractive proposition, and I admit there are draft scenarios that could play out where I would consider this a given (for instance, Suh becomes a life-long chief and hall-of-famer, and somehow we manage to pick up Mike Iupati, Terrance Cody, and Brandon Spikes or Taylor Mays in the second round). The problem is there are simply no guarantees about these later picks and ultimately we would be rolling the dice to replace Dorsey with Suh. We would be plugging in Suh as a 3-4 D-end and hoping he transitions well, whereas Dorsey already made the transition quite well and showed the potential to become a cornerstone of this defense for years to come.

The beauty of this rumor is that it we can't know whether or not its realistic until the minute we know what St. Louis does with the first pick, so it could a topic of argument amongst Dorsey-loving/Dorsey-hating chiefs fans for quite awhile. So what does everyone think?

I don't see Detroit giving up all of those picks for Dorsey! Even Matt Millen is not that stupid! I say we could probably get a 2nd and maybe a 3rd and 5th.

Coach
02-17-2010, 06:30 PM
I don't see Detroit giving up all of those picks for Dorsey! Even Matt Millen is not that stupid! I say we could probably get a 2nd and maybe a 3rd and 5th.
Matt Millen isn't there anymore. I agree that some of us are over-valuing Dorsey's trade value. We're better off keeping him.

KottkeKU
02-21-2010, 01:52 AM
i think if the Saints traded for Dorsey (and give us Jamaal) then it wouldnt be fair to the rest of the league. I rememebr going into that draft, i was almost certain Dorsey was not going to be available for the Chiefs at no.4 or wherever we picked. I was ready to celebrate if we would have gone with Sedrick Ellis at that point, but Dorsey fell to us and i was even more happy.

Put BOTH together and you got some serious unfairness to opposing teams lol. especially with Brees on the other side

LOVE the saints man, ive been a huge fan ever since post katrina when they beat ATL....so not very long lol but before they were champs!