PDA

View Full Version : Should the Chiefs draft a LT with #5



pbatrucker
02-25-2010, 08:04 AM
Should the Chiefs Use 5th Overall Pick in 2010 NFL Draft on a Left Tackle? - ANALYSIS SAYS NO! - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/2/24/1325640/should-the-chiefs-use-5th-overall)

70 chiefsfan70
02-25-2010, 01:58 PM
Very interesting read!

I'm in agreement with this, we have too many holes to fill. Alberts position is one of my least concerns on the team. As long as the WR can't get open we and the QB doesn't know when to get rid of the ball we will have a lot of sacks.
Just having a running game changed everything makes every one else look better. Imagine what a real good receiver or tight end that can always get open and can catch everthing thrown their way would do to this team.Maybe I'm dreaming but it sure is a sweet thought.


I really want Berry if hes there at the five spot!!!!

SAPHOJUNKIE
02-25-2010, 04:07 PM
Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

First of all, who says you can't take Pouncey in the second as well as Okung in the first?

Okung, Waters, Pouncey, Albert, Taylor.

Second of all, anyone who takes Terrence Cody in the second is a fool. The guy has zero technique, and his weight is fat, not strength.

You don't draft Dan Williams #5 overall. You don't. You don't spend THREE TOP FIVE PICKS on a 3-4 defensive line. YOU DON'T.

Eric Berry is very good. However, no safety drafted that high has panned out. Why is that? Is there a curse? No...it's more likely that teams drafting in the top five do not have the integral parts of a good defense that would allow a safety to have a massive impact.

ed reed! troy polamalu! bob sanders! brian dawkins!

Yeah, they all came onto teams that were winners with stout defenses or top offenses, or both. None of them were drafted in the top 5.

Safety simply as important as linemen are. Why? Because if you have a great safety and a horrible front 7, the safety cannot contribute as well as if he's playing behind stout run defense.

So you think Albert was actually much better than it seems last year? Okay, I'll give you that. maybe it's possible that Albert had a tough time adjusting to his new blocking scheme. But stop saying the weight thing. It makes zero sense. Zero. That 30 pounds did not make him incapable of blocking. He didn't lose 30 pounds of strength. And any leverage he lost should have been more than made up for in quickness and stamina.

If it gets to #5 and we take Berry with all tackles still available, fine. I'm not going to moan about it. Berry is a serious playmaker. But to sit there and say that we should NOT improve our offensive line is just ridiculous. We aren't paying Branden Albert left tackle money. We're not even paying him free agent RIGHT tackle money. He can be shifted quite easily. A lot of fans are against it, because they were calling for us to draft him. guess what? he hasn't played like a franchise left tackle. he's been good, not great. DEMAND GREAT.

whatwasthat?
02-26-2010, 02:41 AM
Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

First of all, who says you can't take Pouncey in the second as well as Okung in the first?

Okung, Waters, Pouncey, Albert, Taylor.

Second of all, anyone who takes Terrence Cody in the second is a fool. The guy has zero technique, and his weight is fat, not strength.

You don't draft Dan Williams #5 overall. You don't. You don't spend THREE TOP FIVE PICKS on a 3-4 defensive line. YOU DON'T.

Eric Berry is very good. However, no safety drafted that high has panned out. Why is that? Is there a curse? No...it's more likely that teams drafting in the top five do not have the integral parts of a good defense that would allow a safety to have a massive impact.

ed reed! troy polamalu! bob sanders! brian dawkins!

Yeah, they all came onto teams that were winners with stout defenses or top offenses, or both. None of them were drafted in the top 5.

Safety simply as important as linemen are. Why? Because if you have a great safety and a horrible front 7, the safety cannot contribute as well as if he's playing behind stout run defense.

So you think Albert was actually much better than it seems last year? Okay, I'll give you that. maybe it's possible that Albert had a tough time adjusting to his new blocking scheme. But stop saying the weight thing. It makes zero sense. Zero. That 30 pounds did not make him incapable of blocking. He didn't lose 30 pounds of strength. And any leverage he lost should have been more than made up for in quickness and stamina.

If it gets to #5 and we take Berry with all tackles still available, fine. I'm not going to moan about it. Berry is a serious playmaker. But to sit there and say that we should NOT improve our offensive line is just ridiculous. We aren't paying Branden Albert left tackle money. We're not even paying him free agent RIGHT tackle money. He can be shifted quite easily. A lot of fans are against it, because they were calling for us to draft him. guess what? he hasn't played like a franchise left tackle. he's been good, not great. DEMAND GREAT.

actually pioli drafted D-linemen for the patriots in the first round in 2001, 2003, and 2004...now granted they werent all top 5s and im not saying williams is a sure thing but i wouldnt underestimate piolis resolve

okung is no upgrade to albert plain and simple...plus albert has never played on the right side of the line in his entire career...actually albert losing weight forced him to rely on technique...in his rookie year he could essentially cheat on his technique because of his size...and he may not be any less strong but i bet you its a hell of a lot easier for a 250 lb OLB to move a 295lb tackle than a 330lb one...im sorry if you demand him to be an allpro left tackle in his second year in the league...however unrealistic your aspirations are i believe albert at left tackle has a career season in 2010

and about cody...he is fat plain and simple and hes a huge gamble...but his technique is one of his stronger points..i dont know where you are getting information about him having zero technique

yashi
02-26-2010, 10:10 AM
actually pioli drafted D-linemen for the patriots in the first round in 2001, 2003, and 2004...now granted they werent all top 5s and im not saying williams is a sure thing but i wouldnt underestimate piolis resolve

okung is no upgrade to albert plain and simple...plus albert has never played on the right side of the line in his entire career...actually albert losing weight forced him to rely on technique...in his rookie year he could essentially cheat on his technique because of his size...and he may not be any less strong but i bet you its a hell of a lot easier for a 250 lb OLB to move a 295lb tackle than a 330lb one...im sorry if you demand him to be an allpro left tackle in his second year in the league...however unrealistic your aspirations are i believe albert at left tackle has a career season in 2010

I don't really get the obsession with keeping Albert at LT. He wasn't a LT in college, wasn't projected as a franchise LT, and he hasn't been very good as a LT in the pros so far. He isn't paid LT money either.

Drafting a true franchise LT and putting Albert in his projected position (Guard) coming out of college upgrades two positions for the price of one.

whatwasthat?
02-26-2010, 04:42 PM
actually most people projected him as a franchise LT coming into the draft..

in his rookie season he played very well..he had a bad sophomore year as a result of intangibles

and who says that a drafted LT will even be an upgrade over albert? many have said that this years LT class is poor compared to years before

do you people even do research?

people obsess over keeping albert at LT because it is not a position of need..and with all the gaping wholes in our team we cant afford to throw away a first round pick

yashi
02-26-2010, 04:46 PM
Okung just had the most bench press reps among offensive tackles at the combine, and also measured in with extremely long arms.

I hope we get him.

whatwasthat?
02-26-2010, 04:47 PM
tank tyler had the most bench press reps out of any DT in the draft and look how well he turned out for us

yashi
02-26-2010, 04:48 PM
actually most people projected him as a franchise LT coming into the draft..

Not as I recall. I clearly remember Mel Kiper's exact words, "Pro Bowl caliber Guard with the ability to play tackle."

whatwasthat?
02-26-2010, 04:52 PM
you dont draft an OL in the top 10 with the intention to play him at G

yashi
02-26-2010, 05:00 PM
you dont draft an OL in the top 10 with the intention to play him at G

Unless you're Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards. Any he wasn't drafted in the top 10 anyway.

whatwasthat?
02-26-2010, 05:13 PM
btw...the OL havent even worked out yet
their drills are on saturday

so where did you see that he has the most bench presses

yashi
02-26-2010, 05:15 PM
btw...the OL havent even worked out yet
their drills are on saturday

so where did you see that he has the most bench presses

http://walterfootball.com/combine2010OT.php
Russell Okung (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5632)
http://twitter.com/ShawnZobel_DHQ/status/9694362361

whatwasthat?
02-26-2010, 05:24 PM
i just saw the results on tv...but sorry he wasnt the highest...38 for okung...45 for mitch petris

yashi
02-26-2010, 05:27 PM
i just saw the results on tv...but sorry he wasnt the highest...38 for okung...45 for mitch petris

Petris is a guard.

whatwasthat?
02-26-2010, 11:29 PM
i know this

Chief Tyler
02-26-2010, 11:49 PM
i know this
Smaller frame = easier reps, that's why the guys that you see lifting the most weight in the gym are a lot of times in the neighborhood of five foot nothin' :P. 38 reps for anybody is monstrous, 45 was the most since 2000, but it's especially impressive when you consider the top tackles last year couldn't match it. Monroe had 23 and Jason Smith managed 33 (and strength was one of his main selling points). After that performance and after his weigh in, I have my heart almost set on Okung. If he has a good three cone drill I hope the Chiefs snatch him right up.

chief31
02-27-2010, 05:11 AM
Okung just had the most bench press reps among offensive tackles at the combine, and also measured in with extremely long arms.

I hope we get him.


btw...the OL havent even worked out yet
their drills are on saturday



http://walterfootball.com/combine2010OT.php
Russell Okung (http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?sport=NFL&id=5632)
http://twitter.com/ShawnZobel_DHQ/status/9694362361


i just saw the results on tv...but sorry he wasnt the highest...38 for okung...45 for mitch petris


Petris is a guard.


you dont draft an OL in the top 10 with the intention to play him at G


Unless you're Carl Peterson and Herm Edwards. Any he wasn't drafted in the top 10 anyway.

I get it. You don't want to draft Okung.

But clearly that feeling has made you biased enough to where you are saying things that are flat-out wrong.

Funny, Okung has taken a beating around here, by those who wish to draft someone else.

Alot of "Poor class for OT's" and "not near the same caliber as OT's from recent drafts", yet every mock has him in tthe top five to ten, over players at positions that are said to be far stronger than OT.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a top-notch OT prospect.

And, if The Chiefs' staff isn't sold on Albert playing LOT, as I am not, then I would be happy to see us draft Okung.

yashi
02-27-2010, 11:34 AM
I get it. You don't want to draft Okung.

But clearly that feeling has made you biased enough to where you are saying things that are flat-out wrong.

Funny, Okung has taken a beating around here, by those who wish to draft someone else.

Alot of "Poor class for OT's" and "not near the same caliber as OT's from recent drafts", yet every mock has him in tthe top five to ten, over players at positions that are said to be far stronger than OT.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a top-notch OT prospect.

And, if The Chiefs' staff isn't sold on Albert playing LOT, as I am not, then I would be happy to see us draft Okung.

Thank you. A lot of people seem do seem to be stuck on the idea that this is a bad offensive tackle class, and don't realize that Okung is quickly achieving elite prospect status. He was the #1 OT all season, and is having an incredible combine thus far.

He plays the 2nd most valuable position in the NFL, AND allows us to upgrade 2 or 3 positions for the price of one? Sounds like a no brainer pick to me.

pbatrucker
02-27-2010, 11:47 AM
Okung just ran a 5,19 forty

brish
02-27-2010, 02:56 PM
Both Okung and Bulaga looks good to me.. What to do!!

whatwasthat?
03-01-2010, 12:12 AM
I get it. You don't want to draft Okung.

But clearly that feeling has made you biased enough to where you are saying things that are flat-out wrong.

Funny, Okung has taken a beating around here, by those who wish to draft someone else.

Alot of "Poor class for OT's" and "not near the same caliber as OT's from recent drafts", yet every mock has him in tthe top five to ten, over players at positions that are said to be far stronger than OT.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a top-notch OT prospect.

And, if The Chiefs' staff isn't sold on Albert playing LOT, as I am not, then I would be happy to see us draft Okung.

i posted that the OL hadnt worked out yet at 3 friday...i was unaware that they had done their bench press already

and when he posted that i thought he said 'of any OL', not tackle, and it being on a different page i didnt feel like looking it up

and many people had projected us albert (or clady) at 5...the reason we passed on him at 5 is because dorsey dropped...i know that albert was picked 15th...regardless he was still drafted to be an LT

Chief Tyler
03-01-2010, 01:51 AM
i posted that the OL hadnt worked out yet at 3 friday...i was unaware that they had done their bench press already

and when he posted that i thought he said 'of any OL', not tackle, and it being on a different page i didnt feel like looking it up

and many people had projected us albert (or clady) at 5...the reason we passed on him at 5 is because dorsey dropped...i know that albert was picked 15th...regardless he was still drafted to be an LT

Dorsey was drafted to be the next Warren Sapp and it looks like his career isn't going to take that route, at least not in KC. Albert was drafted as a tackle, but the feeling was that he was fairly raw and incredibly versatile when he was drafted, which still holds true.

whatwasthat?
03-01-2010, 02:32 AM
true...i still believe in albert though

and i dont know why people are already giving up on dorsey...with the exception of QBs, DL has the largest learning curve for the nfl and hes about to get into his 3rd season...dorsey at the end of the season in the new scheme was much better than the beginning of the season IMO

Chiefster
03-01-2010, 01:37 PM
Yes, the Chiefs should draft a LT at #5.






That is all. :D

Seek
03-01-2010, 02:07 PM
actually most people projected him as a franchise LT coming into the draft..

in his rookie season he played very well..he had a bad sophomore year as a result of intangibles

and who says that a drafted LT will even be an upgrade over albert? many have said that this years LT class is poor compared to years before

do you people even do research?

people obsess over keeping albert at LT because it is not a position of need..and with all the gaping wholes in our team we cant afford to throw away a first round pick

Position of need is obviously an opinion not shared by all. However, watching this pathetic offense since the introduction of Herm Edwards leaves me with no higher priority than fixing the offensive Line.

This line is horrific and that includes Brandon Albert. Do you not recall the excuses all season people were spewing that it is Hailey's fault for making Albert Lose a bunch of weight.

Cassell was the most knocked down QB in the NFL followed up closely with being almost the most sacked QB. Our running game was absent until J. Charles became our featured back. Charles made the offensive line better by actually hitting what hole was there quicker before it closed.

While people drool over Berry as a safety. Safety is not a position that wins games. Football is won in the trenches and our trenches stink. I can't tell you how many times the Chiefs went three an out early in the season with a 3rd and long, because there was zero room to run.

While LT is not a #1 priority the other 4 are. And if drafting a beter LT and moving Albert to one of the other two. It helps twice over and should be a priority over any other postion on this team.

Seek
03-01-2010, 02:20 PM
you dont draft an OL in the top 10 with the intention to play him at G

Who Drafted Albert in the top 10. I am pretty sure the Chiefs traded up to get him at 15, in which yes teams would draft a G. He is expected to be still be a talented player in the NFL, but I think the Chiefs new they had a talented player was but was reaching at him to be a LT.

whatwasthat?
03-01-2010, 02:24 PM
Position of need is obviously an opinion not shared by all. However, watching this pathetic offense since the introduction of Herm Edwards leaves me with no higher priority than fixing the offensive Line.

This line is horrific and that includes Brandon Albert. Do you not recall the excuses all season people were spewing that it is Hailey's fault for making Albert Lose a bunch of weight.

Cassell was the most knocked down QB in the NFL followed up closely with being almost the most sacked QB. Our running game was absent until J. Charles became our featured back. Charles made the offensive line better by actually hitting what hole was there quicker before it closed.

While people drool over Berry as a safety. Safety is not a position that wins games. Football is won in the trenches and our trenches stink. I can't tell you how many times the Chiefs went three an out early in the season with a 3rd and long, because there was zero room to run.

While LT is not a #1 priority the other 4 are. And if drafting a beter LT and moving Albert to one of the other two. It helps twice over and should be a priority over any other postion on this team.

you forget to mention that while yes charles did make the OL look better...they also switched to a zone blocking scheme when charles took over...

a big part of cassell being sacked too much is he holds on to the ball to long...im pretty sure he was sacked most in the league in NE too

everyone says drafting a better LT..how do you know that any of the guys in this draft are better than albert? they have never played a down in the nfl before...and albert had one bad season and people are calling for him to be switched..did everybody forget his rookie year he only allowed 4.5 sacks? with a terrible running game....

i never said anything about berry in this thread...but you can pick up starting quality interior OL (which is what was the biggest problem this season) in the 2nd round and save the first rounder for a player we wont be able to get later. ie dan williams NT

Seek
03-01-2010, 02:35 PM
you forget to mention that while yes charles did make the OL look better...they also switched to a zone blocking scheme when charles took over...

a big part of cassell being sacked too much is he holds on to the ball to long...im pretty sure he was sacked most in the league in NE too

everyone says drafting a better LT..how do you know that any of the guys in this draft are better than albert? they have never played a down in the nfl before...and albert had one bad season and people are calling for him to be switched..did everybody forget his rookie year he only allowed 4.5 sacks? with a terrible running game....

i never said anything about berry in this thread...but you can pick up starting quality interior OL (which is what was the biggest problem this season) in the 2nd round and save the first rounder for a player we wont be able to get later. ie dan williams NT

First, Alberts rookie year was a disaster for our offense. While he may only have given up 4.5 sacks. We ran the ball a ton and switched to a spread offense because our QB's were getting killed. If it was not for the mobility of Tyler Thigpen, Alberts sack total would have been higher. I can't tell you how many times Tyler Thigpen rolled out to his right, because the left side collapsed. (yes, it also his throwing side).

Given your logic, how do you know any player we draft in the NFL will be an upgrade. They could be all be bust.

Also, as you have stated, The flock of O lineman this year isn't top notch, except for the top two Tackles. From everything I have heard, if you do not get one of the two tackles, you are done looking at tackle the first day.

As for the second round. I believe we need to find a guard or center as well. As I previously stated, our offensive line sucked at four positions with no depth behind them. Going O line with 1 and 2, is a priority to me over safety or WR.

whatwasthat?
03-01-2010, 02:46 PM
First, Alberts rookie year was a disaster for our offense. While he may only have given up 4.5 sacks. We ran the ball a ton and switched to a spread offense because our QB's were getting killed. If it was not for the mobility of Tyler Thigpen, Alberts sack total would have been higher. I can't tell you how many times Tyler Thigpen rolled out to his right, because the left side collapsed. (yes, it also his throwing side).

Given your logic, how do you know any player we draft in the NFL will be an upgrade. They could be all be bust.

Also, as you have stated, The flock of O lineman this year isn't top notch, except for the top two Tackles. From everything I have heard, if you do not get one of the two tackles, you are done looking at tackle the first day.

As for the second round. I believe we need to find a guard or center as well. As I previously stated, our offensive line sucked at four positions with no depth behind them. Going O line with 1 and 2, is a priority to me over safety or WR.

the reason we switched to the spread offense is because thigpen couldnt do anything out of a traditional nfl under-center offense...chan gailey made the switch to play to thigpens strengths

and while its true that any player could be a bust...drafting almost any NT would be an almost immediate upgrade...not to mention receivers that can simply catch

i said the tackles werent top notch, not OL...you can get great value picks in the second round at center and guard

while i may not agree with taking an LT in the first round, i wont cease to be a chiefs fan if that played out...the last 3 seasons have been disappointments so i cant really say that it would ruin us...i just think we should go defense with the first pick

Seek
03-01-2010, 03:10 PM
the reason we switched to the spread offense is because thigpen couldnt do anything out of a traditional nfl under-center offense...chan gailey made the switch to play to thigpens strengths

and while its true that any player could be a bust...drafting almost any NT would be an almost immediate upgrade...not to mention receivers that can simply catch

i said the tackles werent top notch, not OL...you can get great value picks in the second round at center and guard

while i may not agree with taking an LT in the first round, i wont cease to be a chiefs fan if that played out...the last 3 seasons have been disappointments so i cant really say that it would ruin us...i just think we should go defense with the first pick

Why was it Thigpen was playing?????

I agree. There is really no position the Chiefs couldn't draft that is not a need. I just prefer to fix the O-line. I would not be upset if it is was a ILB, safety or even WR.

I will be upset if they do not fix the Oline and draft another DE.

whatwasthat?
03-01-2010, 06:53 PM
i think the only way we draft DE is if its a 5th round project pick...

thigpen was playing because huard and croyle are fragile...any QB will get hit...croyle is made of glass

chief31
03-02-2010, 05:10 AM
i think the only way we draft DE is if its a 5th round project pick...

thigpen was playing because huard and croyle are fragile...any QB will get hit...croyle is made of glass

Yeah, that's it. Don't forget Trent Green in there. He couldn't stay healthy for a full game with a Herm Edwards O-line.

But, prior to that game, he had gained quite a reputation as being an "iron man".

They weren't all fragile, they were all getting the s*** beat out of them.

Albert was not good in his first season either.

He entered the draft as the concensus top OG available. (Wasn't even close, really) It was then guessed that he may be able to play LOT too.

And, to this day, that is the best he has been for a LOT prospect. Might be able to play LOT.

If we draft a guy who is fully expected should be able to play LOT at a high level, and, in the process, get the top rated OG prospect available (B. Albert), how do you pass that opportunity up?

It's almost like getting two first rounders for the price of one. And at two positions of need.

I am not going to go apes**t if we don't take an OT in the first. But I certainly would be trying to if it were my call.

SAPHOJUNKIE
03-03-2010, 02:35 PM
Branden Albert was a lot like Iupati is this year - by FAR the best guard in the draft, with the potential to be a tackle, even a left tackle.

taken at #15, it's probably a little higher than Iupati will go, but not that much higher.

we aren't paying albert LT money, so why on EARTH would we care about moving him? His ego? His feelings?

I think people don't want to move him, because they think Albert is "good enough." In my opinion, left tackle isn't a position on which you settle for "adequate" or "serviceable" or even "above average." It is one of the three most important positions on the entire team. It should be a position of STRENGTH, not merely a position that isn't a glaring weakness.

yashi
03-03-2010, 02:37 PM
The last two posts say it all. If Okung is there at 5, he has to be the pick.

SAPHOJUNKIE
03-03-2010, 02:39 PM
Well, we can probably forget about picking Okung.

NFL.com Blogs Blog Archive Redskins’ Samuels to retire Thursday (http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/03/03/redskins-samuels-to-retire-thursday/)

yashi
03-03-2010, 02:41 PM
Well, we can probably forget about picking Okung.

NFL.com Blogs Blog Archive Redskins’ Samuels to retire Thursday (http://blogs.nfl.com/2010/03/03/redskins-samuels-to-retire-thursday/)

Ugh... please let Shanahan be in love with Jimmy Clausen.

I guess it's not all bad. If Clausen is there at 5, we could have a pretty good opportunity to trade down.

Hayvern
03-03-2010, 04:12 PM
Branden Albert was a lot like Iupati is this year - by FAR the best guard in the draft, with the potential to be a tackle, even a left tackle.

taken at #15, it's probably a little higher than Iupati will go, but not that much higher.

we aren't paying albert LT money, so why on EARTH would we care about moving him? His ego? His feelings?

I think people don't want to move him, because they think Albert is "good enough." In my opinion, left tackle isn't a position on which you settle for "adequate" or "serviceable" or even "above average." It is one of the three most important positions on the entire team. It should be a position of STRENGTH, not merely a position that isn't a glaring weakness.

For myself I am a little worried about moving him in regards to what we would have if we did. LT is an important position, and unless you are able to get a first round left tackle in the draft or a leader in free agency, then we just don't have anything that compares.

If you were able to get an Okung at number 5, then you have to do, at that point you could move Albert to right guard and keep Waters. With Albert at Right Guard you could service one of those 22 players off the street at right tackle.

But before you move him, you have to make darned sure you have a left tackle who can step in and replace him.

Seek
03-04-2010, 01:55 PM
Ugh... please let Shanahan be in love with Jimmy Clausen.

I guess it's not all bad. If Clausen is there at 5, we could have a pretty good opportunity to trade down.

Shanarat drafts smarter than that. If he truly thinks Clausen is worth a top 4 pick. Clausen should be going first over to the Rams with no disput or even then to the Lions.

I believe Shanarat strives for Mid to late first round picks. I fully expect him to trade out of the pick for someone wanting Okung in fear the Chiefs will take him.