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kcallin
03-18-2010, 10:32 PM
I just wanted to ask how it is that alot of people would love to have EB but some of the same people want to trade out of our pick.

One other thing is that so many people are caught on the money he will make if we pick him at #5, but we are going to have to pay that same money to someone why can't it be one of our biggest needed areas of the D.

If another D line guy is picked what % of the team salary will be used ON 3 GUYS?


I say Berry at #5, pay the man and watch the fireworks he can produce.

Coach
03-18-2010, 10:38 PM
I'm not going to be disappointed if we get Berry. I just think there are bigger positions of need on this team(NT(\) where there are much fewer good prospects. There will be good safeties available in the 2nd round. Will there be a good NT available in the 2nd round? A project NT maybe, a starting NT, probably not.

whatwasthat?
03-18-2010, 11:02 PM
the good thing about our position is pretty much anything we do should help the team

i will probably celebrate if we get berry though

Coach
03-18-2010, 11:05 PM
the good thing about our position is pretty much anything we do should help the team

i will probably celebrate if we get berry though

I agree. We need help everywhere, so it's tough to argue with almost any pick at #5.

stricken721
03-19-2010, 12:47 AM
I'm not going to be disappointed if we get Berry. I just think there are bigger positions of need on this team(NT() where there are much fewer good prospects. There will be good safeties available in the 2nd round. Will there be a good NT available in the 2nd round? A project NT maybe, a starting NT, probably not.

Agreed.

matthewschiefs
03-19-2010, 01:24 AM
If we get berry we get him and I will be glad to have him. I don't think that he is a must get guy. I will again say that we need pass rush help before safety help imo. It won't matter who is playing safety if the people have all day to get open. We need guys who can stop the run and help get pressure on the QB before safety. But Berry would not be a bad choice. I don't think that there is a clear pick for us so I will be happy with whoever we get.

AussieChiefsFan
03-19-2010, 01:36 AM
I just wanted to ask how it is that alot of people would love to have EB but some of the same people want to trade out of our pick.

One other thing is that so many people are caught on the money he will make if we pick him at #5, but we are going to have to pay that same money to someone why can't it be one of our biggest needed areas of the D.

If another D line guy is picked what % of the team salary will be used ON 3 GUYS?


I say Berry at #5, pay the man and watch the fireworks he can produce.
:bananen_smilies046: :sign0087:

hometeam
03-19-2010, 01:49 AM
Berry is the pick.

AussieChiefsFan
03-19-2010, 01:59 AM
Berry is the pick.
:bananen_smilies046:

KottkeKU
03-19-2010, 07:21 PM
I have also been on the Berry bandwagon since December/January lol...

but i can understand why people don't want to take a safety no.5 overall. Too much money and lack of value for his position being the main drawbacks...

But i counter saying we have plenty of cap space, and plenty of areas we need to improve. I say don't let money get in the way of us taking one of the most talented players in the draft. Yes, there will be starting quality safeties in rounds 2-3. But Eric Berry is more than just a quality starter.

I am a big believer in strong D Line = strong defense, and same thing for offense. So i understand why people want Okung, Bulaga, or Dan Williams to sure up the NT and d-line (not easy to find NT)...and i wouldn't be upset to see us take any of those guys really.

But if this guy is the next Elite safety, he could potentially be Ed Reed/Polamalu esque defensive MVP once our D-Line starts to improve... (which you know it will, now that we have proper defensive coaches who can actually develop a D Lineman....unlike Tim Krumrie from Carl era...)

Either way you slice it, If Okung falls to us (i doubt it), we take him. Great pick. Eric Berry falls to us, we take him. If both are taken, then that most likely leaves a DT or QB in which someone would likely trade for. And if THAT doesn't work out, then we can always grab the best NT in the draft in Dan Williams, albeit it would be a reach.

We really can't go wrong at no.5 overall

whatwasthat?
03-19-2010, 10:17 PM
berry is a hard worker...the type pioli and haley like...he studies game film from sanders, polamalu, reed and more...he has all the skills for him to succeed in the nfl...and could make an immediate impact...

IMO he has the lowest risk/highest reward

Pro_Angler
03-20-2010, 12:08 AM
Berry is a plug and play guy right now, most any NT or line man takes 2-3 years to develope, id rather pay the guy the money that will play now. besides we dont need another high payed jackson type pick that was a joke! Pass on Curry??? stupid move.

PawnshopMarimba
03-21-2010, 01:43 AM
Additionally, we've got a large fella in Shaun Smith that could potentially draw enough attention to help Jackson and Dorsey get into the backfield. I'm not saying I'm sold on him, I'm just saying we have a potential solution for the NT problem.

I see no reason at all not to draft Eric Berry. Ed Reed and Polomalu both demonstrate beautifully how a smart safety can really tie a defense together, and our safeties bungling up coverage on deep pass plays really hurt us last season.

Berry or Bust.

Fansincebirth
03-21-2010, 07:38 PM
To answer your question. Most everyone would love to trade down this year. Especially with the draft being so deep. But chances of that happening are slim because other teams know the same thing and can get good players for less money. So if we cant trade down, yes I am all for Berry. As I pointed out last week. The success rate for safeties picked in the top 10 is much better than Quarterbacks picked in the top 10. The league is becoming more and more a passing league. That makes the safety possition that much more important.

Pro_Angler
03-22-2010, 12:19 AM
i think we could trade down a few spots and still get berry

AussieChiefsFan
03-22-2010, 03:43 AM
i think we could trade down a few spots and still get berry
I woudn't want to risk it. I really want him drafted by the chiefs!!!!!!

chief31
03-22-2010, 05:23 AM
To answer your question. Most everyone would love to trade down this year. Especially with the draft being so deep. But chances of that happening are slim because other teams know the same thing and can get good players for less money. So if we cant trade down, yes I am all for Berry. As I pointed out last week. The success rate for safeties picked in the top 10 is much better than Quarterbacks picked in the top 10. The league is becoming more and more a passing league. That makes the safety possition that much more important.

2009
Mark Sanchez QB, Mathew Stafford QB
2008
Matt Ryan QB
2007
JaMarcus Russell QB
2006
Michael Huff S, Donte Whitner S, Matt Lienart QB
2005
Antrell Rolle S (Pro Bowl X1, Super Bowl Champion X1), Alex Smith QB
2004
Eli Manning QB (Pro Bowl X1, Super Bowl champion X1, Super Bowl MVP X1), Phillip Rivers QB (Pro Bowl X2), Sean Taylor S (Pro Bowl X2)
2003
Carson Palmer QB (Pro Bowl X2)
2002
David Carr QB, Joey Harrington QB, Roy Williams S (Pro Bowl x5)
2001
Michael Vick QB (Pro Bowl X3)
2000
Nobody.

Well, here they are. Doesn't seem real convincing either way, to me.

4/9 QBs have been to a Pro Bowl. And 3/5 Ss have been.

That leans toward your argument. But no player on that list really screams out at me as dominant.

But, don't go back any further, or you will wind up finding some players that make a pretty strong case for QBs. Payton Manning, Donovan Mcnabb...

The trump card against ya may be that Safeties aren't drafted, but converted from CB.

Rather thay be failed CBs, or aged CBs, a pretty decent number of NFL Safeties were not Safeties in college, and entering The NFL draft.

I'd catergorize that position similar to Offensive Guard, or Right Offensive Tackle. Players who aren't good enough to play the tougher position (LOT/CB) can always get a shot at the "leftover" position. (OG, ROT/S)

It is that "leftover" feel of the Safety positions that likely leads teams to not draft early at that position. Hence, only five players being drafted in the top ten over those ten drafts.

If Pioli continues with his "positional value" philosophy, then Eric Berry will only play at Arrowhead as a visitor.

Seek
03-22-2010, 01:36 PM
I still believe teams are bulit in the trenches. Our offensive line still needs help. If we draft Berry fine, but I sure hope there isn't an Okung on the board if we take him.

pbatrucker
03-22-2010, 01:55 PM
I still believe teams are bulit in the trenches. Our offensive line still needs help. If we draft Berry fine, but I sure hope there isn't an Okung on the board if we take him.
IMO we will draft to fill the weakest link on the OL, probably in the third round. Could be Callaway, from Iowa or the LT from Indiana. Both would be good RT.

Seek
03-22-2010, 02:07 PM
What is the weakest Link? Based on last years performance. It is the entire line. Casey Wiegmann and Ryan Lilja improve two spots, but only only to an average status.

Albert was beat often and was the most penalized Tackle in the league last year. He is holding because he had too. Waters was also the most penalized Guard last year He has declined steadily since Roaf retired and could literally retire phycially this year. He mentally may still be there, but his body just won't let him.

Casey Wiegman is old and under sized and could be physically retired.

I am not sure drafting one player in the 3rd round will fix our problems. The whole line needs help, and if you don't believe that, you need to take of the rose colored classes and look at them realistically and don't make excuses or assumptions.

Safety is a need. That is for sure. But like I said a teams foundation is the trenches and should be priority 1.

yashi
03-22-2010, 02:12 PM
You guys are going to be interested in this Peter King article.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/03/21/meetings/1.html


Dimitroff worked with Chiefs GM Scott Pioli in New England, and they are still close. "I was talking to Scott Pioli about Berry, and I said, 'Scott, this guy's your pick,'" said Dimitroff. "He said, 'You know how I feel about safeties that early.'."

Seek
03-22-2010, 06:20 PM
You guys are going to be interested in this Peter King article.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/03/21/meetings/1.html

I about posted something similar to this but in reality, you could probably look at a majority of positions and almost say the same thing.

If you are drafting in fear of a player getting hurt, it could just as easily be a LT, NT or linebacker who gets hurt the first day of practice.

You can't live in fear, but I do tend to believe the good safeties get hurt more often than not.

slimdagreat
03-22-2010, 06:34 PM
You guys are going to be interested in this Peter King article.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/03/21/meetings/1.html

I've already debunked this article.

"The three best safeties to be drafted in the past decade -- Ed Reed, Troy Polamalu and Bob Sanders -- have missed 78 games due to injury in their 21 combined NFL seasons."

What King doesn't mention is that more than half of those missed games are from Bob Sanders.

Of the five top-10 safeties this decade, none has had franchise-player impact: Roy Williams (Dallas, eighth overall, 2002), Sean Taylor (Washington, fifth overall, 2004), Michael Huff (Oakland, seventh, 2006), Donte Whitner, LaRon Landry (Buffalo, eighth, 2006), (Washington, sixth, 2007).


What King leaves out is that only Landry was regarded as a top 10 pick before the draft. The rest of those guys were reaches, and then there's Taylor who was an elite safety until his untimely death.

SAPHOJUNKIE
03-22-2010, 08:13 PM
Uh...sorry to burst your bubble, but Michael Huff was a top 10 projection well before the draft. You're wrong.

Also, what YOU leave out is that Eric Berry would be making 11 million a year as a rookie. Only two safeties made that much last year - Troy Polamalu, who was injured for most of the year, and...your favorite player...michael huff.

If you overpay a position, you will not be able to afford adequate talent at another position. this is called "budgeting." If I only have $20 for dinner, I am not getting a $14 appetizer. I won't be able to afford an entree. This is what people don't understand.

We can draft Berry, sure. But then don't complain when we don't spend a dime in free agency on any of the other positions we need to upgrade.

If we took a left tackle at #5, we would be paying him big money, sure, but very good left tackles can make 10 mil a year easy.

bwilliams
03-22-2010, 11:26 PM
Uh...sorry to burst your bubble, but Michael Huff was a top 10 projection well before the draft. You're wrong.

Also, what YOU leave out is that Eric Berry would be making 11 million a year as a rookie. Only two safeties made that much last year - Troy Polamalu, who was injured for most of the year, and...your favorite player...michael huff.

If you overpay a position, you will not be able to afford adequate talent at another position. this is called "budgeting." If I only have $20 for dinner, I am not getting a $14 appetizer. I won't be able to afford an entree. This is what people don't understand.

We can draft Berry, sure. But then don't complain when we don't spend a dime in free agency on any of the other positions we need to upgrade.

If we took a left tackle at #5, we would be paying him big money, sure, but very good left tackles can make 10 mil a year easy.

Think about it this way. No matter what, if we can't trade down, we're going to be paying someone $11M/year. We're going to be building this team through the draft and cheap FAs. We're almost certainly not going to pay big money for FAs, no matter the position.

So, in essence, what does it matter in terms of budgeting? We're going to be paying our rookies a set amount. It might matter when it comes time to resign people in five years, but the players' markets will have corrected themselves by them.

Or to put it another way, there's no economic difference between paying a 1st round SS $11M/year and a 2nd round LT $2M/year than paying a 1st round LT $11M/year and a 2nd round SS $2M/year.

Now, is LT/NT more valuable position than SS? Definitely. Would I rather us go Okung or Williams at 5? Yes, because I think our need at those two positions is greater.

But its not because of how much the rookies are being paid. Because that's all a wash in the end anyway.

slimdagreat
03-23-2010, 11:50 AM
Uh...sorry to burst your bubble, but Michael Huff was a top 10 projection well before the draft. You're wrong.

Per Scouts Inc.
" As such, Huff grades out as the best overall defensive back prospects in the 2006 class and warrants consideration in the top-15 picks overall."

Mel Kiper also had him 15th on his big board.

moshak
03-23-2010, 02:10 PM
Are you guys kidding me????
Eric Berry and Earl Thomas are going to be the two safeties of this Decade. THey are both Interception machines and are PLAYMAKERS.PLAYMAKERS.PLAYMAKERS.
A NOSE TACKLE IS NOT A PLAYMAKER.
AND ON MOST PLAYS ARE USELESS.
I know im going to get a lot of heat for this but i hnestly think that nose tackle is not the most important position. I would much rather have shaun smith starting at Nose Tackle and then having Earl Thomas or Eric Berry playing in the back field.

Ryfo18
03-23-2010, 02:35 PM
Are you guys kidding me????
Eric Berry and Earl Thomas are going to be the two safeties of this Decade. THey are both Interception machines and are PLAYMAKERS.PLAYMAKERS.PLAYMAKERS.
A NOSE TACKLE IS NOT A PLAYMAKER.
AND ON MOST PLAYS ARE USELESS.
I know im going to get a lot of heat for this but i hnestly think that nose tackle is not the most important position. I would much rather have shaun smith starting at Nose Tackle and then having Earl Thomas or Eric Berry playing in the back field.

You are crazy. The NT is one of the most critical positions in a 3-4 defense. He has to be able to take on 2 and even up to 3 blockers play in and play out. If he's not doing his job, linebackers are getting blocked on run plays, and then yes, it would be nice to have someone like Berry there to make the tackle 8 yards down field.

Listen, I wouldn't mind if the Chiefs took Berry, but I want them to also get the best NT in the draft because it's the harder position to fill. Some say Antrel Rolle is overpaid now that he's the highest paid safety. I can't justify making a rookie who has yet to prove his abilities in the NFL even higher paid, and I don't think Pioli can either.

If the NT is useless on most plays, why don't we just play 3 safeties?

Seek
03-23-2010, 02:42 PM
Are you guys kidding me????
Eric Berry and Earl Thomas are going to be the two safeties of this Decade. THey are both Interception machines and are PLAYMAKERS.PLAYMAKERS.PLAYMAKERS.
A NOSE TACKLE IS NOT A PLAYMAKER.
AND ON MOST PLAYS ARE USELESS.
I know im going to get a lot of heat for this but i hnestly think that nose tackle is not the most important position. I would much rather have shaun smith starting at Nose Tackle and then having Earl Thomas or Eric Berry playing in the back field.

Playmakers are over rated. Playmakers just lost to Northern Iowa. What the Chiefs needs is player who makes everyone behind them better.

A intercepting machine can not intercept a ball if the opposing team runs all day long and successfully. As good as your corners are, they were left on islands with no pass rush. Eric Berry will also struggle if NFL offensives have time to pick him apart.

Also an offense can not score if the running back can not find holes and the QB is throwing from his back.

The Chiefs offense was the most potent in the history of this franchise with a solid offensive line. Our offensive line is below average on almost all poistions.

I will continue to say this. Games and teams are won in the trenches.

pbatrucker
03-23-2010, 06:12 PM
You are crazy. The NT is one of the most critical positions in a 3-4 defense. He has to be able to take on 2 and even up to 3 blockers play in and play out. If he's not doing his job, linebackers are getting blocked on run plays, and then yes, it would be nice to have someone like Berry there to make the tackle 8 yards down field.

Listen, I wouldn't mind if the Chiefs took Berry, but I want them to also get the best NT in the draft because it's the harder position to fill. Some say Antrel Rolle is overpaid now that he's the highest paid safety. I can't justify making a rookie who has yet to prove his abilities in the NFL even higher paid, and I don't think Pioli can either.

If the NT is useless on most plays, why don't we just play 3 safeties?
Well said!!!!

stricken721
03-26-2010, 03:15 AM
Are you guys kidding me????
Eric Berry and Earl Thomas are going to be the two safeties of this Decade. THey are both Interception machines and are PLAYMAKERS.PLAYMAKERS.PLAYMAKERS.
A NOSE TACKLE IS NOT A PLAYMAKER.
AND ON MOST PLAYS ARE USELESS.
I know im going to get a lot of heat for this but i hnestly think that nose tackle is not the most important position. I would much rather have shaun smith starting at Nose Tackle and then having Earl Thomas or Eric Berry playing in the back field.
:sign0142:
That could be true. I say we should try running a 2-5 defense instead of a 3-4. Only because the NT is not that important.




Unless you want to win Super Bowls.


Edit: I do agree with you on one point. NT's are not playmakers, they are play stoppers. You know.. the plays where they STOP the Running Back from running right up the middle.

KottkeKU
03-26-2010, 11:24 PM
I was listening to some NFL network podcast the other day, where they had some NFL Scout come on and break down this years draft. He was saying there is some really good DT's this year....to the point where you can get some quality players as far down as the 6th round. I really think we can find a solid NT not named Dan Williams in this draft is my bottom line.

Which ofcourse means, give me some BERRY flavored kool-aid please....

Coach
03-27-2010, 11:17 AM
Also, what YOU leave out is that Eric Berry would be making 11 million a year as a rookie. Only two safeties made that much last year - Troy Polamalu, who was injured for most of the year, and...your favorite player...michael huff.

If you overpay a position, you will not be able to afford adequate talent at another position. this is called "budgeting." If I only have $20 for dinner, I am not getting a $14 appetizer. I won't be able to afford an entree. This is what people don't understand.

We can draft Berry, sure. But then don't complain when we don't spend a dime in free agency on any of the other positions we need to upgrade.

If we took a left tackle at #5, we would be paying him big money, sure, but very good left tackles can make 10 mil a year easy.

Your best post so far imo.

____________
Posted from my BlackBerry, PM me for Details

okikcfan
03-28-2010, 02:27 PM
I like Berry and think he would be a Great pick overall, but not just too sure it should be at 5 and our first pick. It's funny all the things that have been said about Pioli and the way he feels about picking a s so high up yet in almost all the mock drafts they have us picking Berry. I cant wait to see what really happens, lol

pbatrucker
03-28-2010, 02:37 PM
I like Berry and think he would be a Great pick overall, but not just too sure it should be at 5 and our first pick. It's funny all the things that have been said about Pioli and the way he feels about picking a s so high up yet in almost all the mock drafts they have us picking Berry. I cant wait to see what really happens, lol

Don't forget, even the best at doing mock drafts are correct less than 30% of the time.

lucky_lefty
03-28-2010, 05:54 PM
I like Berry because he's just not projected as the best safety prospect in years but I've also seen draftniks suggest he could also be as equally good at CB considering that was his original position. Too talented to say, "oh we shouldn't pay that much money to a Safety" but whoever you draft @ #5, you're going to have to pay them top flight money.

kckidd8870
03-29-2010, 12:49 AM
Trade out of the #5 spot and get Dez Bryant or Eric Berry.One of them will be there.If we don't trade to far down.We can get a good NT in the second rd.

kckidd8870
03-29-2010, 12:51 AM
Dez will really help that offense out and the same for Berry on the D-fense.Won't have to pay alot for them after the #5 spot.

stricken721
03-29-2010, 12:54 AM
Dez will really help that offense out and the same for Berry on the D-fense.Won't have to pay alot for them after the #5 spot.

Dez and D-Bowe could have the potential to be like Larry Fitzgerald and Anquan Boldin. Chris Chambers is good but he's the oldest WR on the roster and won't last forever, Dez and D-Bowe can both benefit from having him on the roster.

wildcat
03-29-2010, 10:32 AM
Trade out of the #5 spot and get Dez Bryant or Eric Berry.One of them will be there.If we don't trade to far down.We can get a good NT in the second rd.

We have enough needs and there is enough depth in this draft that we could definitely trade down and get a player that would really help out our team. Plus, if we do trade down we could end up with another 2nd rounder or possibly even another 1st. It's a no brainer and I am sure Pioli will do everything he can to make it happen.

wolfpack
03-29-2010, 10:52 AM
can`t see pioli picking a safety at #5. alot of good safeties in the 2nd round. i see him picking a OL or NT,LB.
But then again i wouldn`t feel bad if he did pick Berry.

buffman316
03-29-2010, 02:16 PM
Berry is a playmaker and can change the face of the defense. We need a high profile, high flying defense to punch the other team in the mouth and force turnovers. Draft Berry, and then get a line backer or NT and your are on your way! Remember we have three day one picks!

chief31
03-29-2010, 05:56 PM
Berry is a playmaker and can change the face of the defense. We need a high profile, high flying defense to punch the other team in the mouth and force turnovers. Draft Berry, and then get a line backer or NT and your are on your way! Remember we have three day one picks!

...and on offense that needs work.

matthewschiefs
03-29-2010, 08:29 PM
Berry is a playmaker and can change the face of the defense. We need a high profile, high flying defense to punch the other team in the mouth and force turnovers. Draft Berry, and then get a line backer or NT and your are on your way! Remember we have three day one picks!

We could end up with Berry and more day one picks. I don't think Pioli will take a safety at 5 its just how he thinks. And with the way that things have turned out for him he has a reason to think that. But we could trade down and still get him. I am hopeing thats what we do.

toyotapower
03-29-2010, 08:30 PM
i think the offense would be sufficient as is. when brady quinn, jamarcus russell and kyle orton are beating us with their arms, we need defensive help.

KottkeKU
03-29-2010, 09:10 PM
actually the first round IS the first day this year (oppose to last years 1st and 2nd which i peronally loved), then the second day is rounds 2-3, and the third day is rounds 4-7...

(copied and pasted from nfl.com/draft/2010) The NFL draft moves to primetime for the first time in 2010, with the first round taking place Thurs., April 22 at 7:30 p.m. ET, followed by the second and third rounds on Fri., April 23 at 6 p.m. ET. Rounds 4-7 will be held Sat., April 24 at 10 a.m. ET. Watch the entire draft live on NFL Network

josh1971
03-30-2010, 02:58 AM
Sorry, but the draft taking three days is just stupid. It just makes it more of an entertainment event than a draft.

stricken721
03-30-2010, 09:34 PM
Sorry, but the draft taking three days is just stupid. It just makes it more of an entertainment event than a draft.

The NFL has to make as much money as possible before the holdout that seems imminent. :efpge: