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YZILLA
03-22-2010, 02:51 PM
Here is an interesting article on taking Berry at #5 :

Peter King Discusses Scott Pioli, Eric Berry and the Dangers of a Top 10 Safety Choice - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/3/22/1384690/peter-king-discusses-scott-pioli#storyjump)

slimdagreat
03-22-2010, 03:10 PM
I don't think they will take Berry, I still say they end up with Okung or Bulaga, but I think they SHOULD take him.

As far as that "article" all he does is skew some injury stats to prove his point, and he fails to mention that Bob Sanders accounted for more than 1/2 of those missed games he referred to.

He then uses failed top 10 picks like Huff and Whitner to prove his point, but he fails to mention that neither of those guys were considered top 10 prospects before draft. Huff was at best top 15, and Whitner was projected as a late 1st early 2nd rounder. Sean Taylor was all world, but we all know what happened to him.

King needs to focus more on following Favre around, and stop with cherry picking to prove a point.

northwest
03-22-2010, 03:32 PM
If this conversation really took place, then it looks like we're not drafting Berry.

Hayvern
03-22-2010, 04:06 PM
My thought is that it will be a nose tackle or a line backer in the draft. It will not be a safety because of the things that were mentioned in the article AND the cost of drafting one that high.

yashi
03-22-2010, 04:31 PM
Right now I would probably put the odds at 75% Bulaga, 25% someone else.

YZILLA
03-22-2010, 04:41 PM
Doesnt Bulaga have short arms ? What is his huge upside that the media says hes a first rounder?

slimdagreat
03-22-2010, 05:26 PM
If this conversation really took place, then it looks like we're not drafting Berry.

I'm 100% Pioli isn't taking Berry. Its not the way he builds a team, he builds from the inside out, so the pick is going to be an OL, unless he shocks everybody and takes mcCoy if he falls.

bwilliams
03-22-2010, 06:38 PM
I'm 100% Pioli isn't taking Berry. Its not the way he builds a team, he builds from the inside out, so the pick is going to be an OL, unless he shocks everybody and takes mcCoy if he falls.

Why are you sure it won't be Williams? It's the pick that makes the most sense (IMHO).

kcmostwanted
03-22-2010, 07:05 PM
I'm surprised we've not heard much about all the other top OL involved w/ the Chiefs other than Bulaga.... I figured they'd be interviewing / working out Anthony Davis, Bruce Campbell, Trent Williams... hell have they even showed any interest in Russell Okung?

Remember last year when it was too quiet??? Everyone thought they were going after Aaron Curry or Eugene Monroe then they pulled Tyson Jackson out of a hat?

I can see them doing that again this year... Expect a curve-ball on draft day...

Whatever it is, I know that Pioli will grab the best player for a position of need and he won't be afraid to reach** hint Dan Williams?*

Ryfo18
03-22-2010, 09:03 PM
I think ideally Pioli is looking to trade down just like he did last year so that he doesn't have to take Bulaga or Williams too early. I personally would rather have Williams, however it's tough to say how Shaun Smith fits into all of this...Will the Chiefs still look to take a NT early?

Smith isn't the most proven NT in the NFL, that's why I'm hoping we get a guy like Williams who can grow with Crennel.

Big Daddy Tek
03-23-2010, 01:38 AM
I don't think they will take Berry, I still say they end up with Okung or Bulaga, but I think they SHOULD take him.

As far as that "article" all he does is skew some injury stats to prove his point, and he fails to mention that Bob Sanders accounted for more than 1/2 of those missed games he referred to.

He then uses failed top 10 picks like Huff and Whitner to prove his point, but he fails to mention that neither of those guys were considered top 10 prospects before draft. Huff was at best top 15, and Whitner was projected as a late 1st early 2nd rounder. Sean Taylor was all world, but we all know what happened to him.

King needs to focus more on following Favre around, and stop with cherry picking to prove a point.

That's what I'm talking about. Good stuff

KottkeKU
03-23-2010, 02:02 AM
Doesnt Bulaga have short arms ? What is his huge upside that the media says hes a first rounder?

Bulaga is a very pro-ready prospect, polished, smart, good football IQ, etc. He is the most "pro-ready" tackle in the draft bc of this. He will be able to come in and help immediately.

His weakness (and ultimately my argument why he should NOT be the Chiefs pick at no.5 overall) is his potential. Some have said he has already maxed out in terms of potential, and doesn't have the best athleticism to build a prototypical LT from.

I think that is Bulaga in a nutshell.... could be wrong, just from what i have read on him so far.

AussieChiefsFan
03-23-2010, 02:05 AM
I don't think they will take Berry, I still say they end up with Okung or Bulaga, but I think they SHOULD take him.

As far as that "article" all he does is skew some injury stats to prove his point, and he fails to mention that Bob Sanders accounted for more than 1/2 of those missed games he referred to.

He then uses failed top 10 picks like Huff and Whitner to prove his point, but he fails to mention that neither of those guys were considered top 10 prospects before draft. Huff was at best top 15, and Whitner was projected as a late 1st early 2nd rounder. Sean Taylor was all world, but we all know what happened to him.

King needs to focus more on following Favre around, and stop with cherry picking to prove a point.
I'd LOVE it if they got him but I'm kinda nervous that they won't. I mean they NEED a safety desperately and he's the perfect answer!!!

chief31
03-23-2010, 06:18 AM
I don't think they will take Berry, I still say they end up with Okung or Bulaga, but I think they SHOULD take him.

As far as that "article" all he does is skew some injury stats to prove his point, and he fails to mention that Bob Sanders accounted for more than 1/2 of those missed games he referred to.

He then uses failed top 10 picks like Huff and Whitner to prove his point, but he fails to mention that neither of those guys were considered top 10 prospects before draft. Huff was at best top 15, and Whitner was projected as a late 1st early 2nd rounder. Sean Taylor was all world, but we all know what happened to him.

King needs to focus more on following Favre around, and stop with cherry picking to prove a point.

I don't see the Skewing of the numbers.

I checked into it, and they are accurate.

But, even if you form the same numbers and remove the best "cherry" (Bob Sanders) from the equation, the numbers are still not good.

Ed Reed, (10/128, 8%) and Troy Polamalu (19/112, 17%) account for a higher percentage of games missed due to injury (29/240, 12%) than the top three QBs, Tom Brady (15/135, 11%), Peyton Manning (0/192, 0%) and Drew Brees (0/128, 0%) who's total would be (15/455, 3%).

But, with Bob Sanders(49/96, 51%) which is how it should be, the total is even worse (78/336, 24%) for the top Safeties in The NFL.

I think the fact that you can remove the most severe case from the study and still come up with 12% of games missed due to injury says alot for the point being made in the article.


I've already debunked this article.


I think your "debunking" needs some practice. :D (Just teasin')

slimdagreat
03-23-2010, 11:54 AM
Why are you sure it won't be Williams? It's the pick that makes the most sense (IMHO).

I just don't see them going DL 3 years in a row. The OL needs to be addressed, and you can still find a decent NT in the 2nd, moreso than you can at LT.

That being said, if we were to take Williams, I'd rather trade down to one of those teams looking for Clausen (what we should have done last year when NY was looking to get Sanchez)

slimdagreat
03-23-2010, 11:57 AM
I don't see the Skewing of the numbers.

I checked into it, and they are accurate.

But, even if you form the same numbers and remove the best "cherry" (Bob Sanders) from the equation, the numbers are still not good.

Ed Reed, (10/128, 8%) and Troy Polamalu (19/112, 17%) account for a higher percentage of games missed due to injury (29/240, 12%) than the top three QBs, Tom Brady (15/135, 11%), Peyton Manning (0/192, 0%) and Drew Brees (0/128, 0%) who's total would be (15/455, 3%).

But, with Bob Sanders(49/96, 51%) which is how it should be, the total is even worse (78/336, 24%) for the top Safeties in The NFL.

I think the fact that you can remove the most severe case from the study and still come up with 12% of games missed due to injury says alot for the point being made in the article.




I think your "debunking" needs some practice. :D (Just teasin')


That's a flawed comparison. You can't compare the games played of safeties, to that of QBs, one of whom is 2nd all time is consecutive games played, and all have played much longer than those safeties, so its a much larger sample size.

That's like me taking the number of games played by the past 10 1st round OL and then comparing them to Favre, Manning, and Brady.

chief31
03-23-2010, 06:20 PM
That's a flawed comparison. You can't compare the games played of safeties, to that of QBs, one of whom is 2nd all time is consecutive games played, and all have played much longer than those safeties, so its a much larger sample size.

That's like me taking the number of games played by the past 10 1st round OL and then comparing them to Favre, Manning, and Brady.

So, it's unfair to list the top three performers of one position to another, to try and make a case for the liklihood of injury to one of those positions?

Really?

How about if I allow you to "cherry pick" the player that is most detrimental to your case from both sides? Surely, getting to take the two from each position that suit your argument the best out of the equation should really sell your case.

I'm curious. Let's have a look...

E. Reed + T. Polamalu (29/240, 12%)
T. Brady + D. Brees (15/263, 6%)

Hmmm. Nope. Even taking the most damning example from both sides of this equation leaves Safeties at twice the percentage of games missed due to injury.

I'll be the first to admit that this only a comparison of Safety to one other position, and only the top three (or 2/3) players at each.


But the fact that top Safeties are spending that many more games on the sideline is definitely something that any GM should be taking into consideration when looking at using a high draft pick on that position.

Connie Jo
03-23-2010, 10:26 PM
Is it possible Pioli is playing mind games making it appear he has little chance of drafting Berry, for whatever reason?

I hope they draft Berry for Aussie's benefit the most. :)

Canada
03-23-2010, 10:48 PM
I think the injury rate to Brady, manning and Brees would be much different if you were allowed to hit them during a game. The same rules do not apply to safties and QBs. A fair comparison would be top 3 RBs vs Top 3 safties.

chief31
03-24-2010, 01:40 AM
I think the injury rate to Brady, manning and Brees would be much different if you were allowed to hit them during a game. The same rules do not apply to safties and QBs. A fair comparison would be top 3 RBs vs Top 3 safties.

Name 'em?

Canada
03-24-2010, 01:52 AM
Name 'em?

No thanks, I dont care that much about this argument. I just figure if u r gonna compare injuries with players, the comparison should be between players who actually get hit.

chief31
03-24-2010, 01:28 PM
No thanks, I dont care that much about this argument. I just figure if u r gonna compare injuries with players, the comparison should be between players who actually get hit.

I get that. But it's not so easy to say that "These are the best three at this position.". So I went with QB because noone would argue Manning, Brees, Brady.

That, and I think the fact that Safety is a High contact position is actually part of the issue.

RB would be another position that teams tend to avoid drafting early, more often than not.

And one of the concerns there is health issues and longevity. Same as Safety.

But that may be a good comparison to make.

brish
03-24-2010, 01:48 PM
The question is.. Is Berry such a huge talent that you forget "the rules" on this one?

Some would argue that he is..
Right now I feel like Berry might be the best player available at #5, regardless of what position he plays.

bwilliams
03-24-2010, 02:08 PM
The question is.. Is Berry such a huge talent that you forget "the rules" on this one?

Some would argue that he is..
Right now I feel like Berry might be the best player available at #5, regardless of what position he plays.

For years and years and year, the Chiefs had the greatest TE of all time on their team. Despite having the greatest TE of all time on our team, we never won a playoff game with him. This wasn't Gonzo's fault. He was our best offensive player and always gave 110%. But if your best offensive player is a TE, you aren't going to win anything.

How does this relate? Eric Berry might be the greatest safety of all time. But if our best defensive player is a safety, we aren't winning anything. A safety *can't* by virture of where he is on the football field, be enough of a difference maker.

Everyone likes to talk about Polamalu, Ed Reed, and Bob Sanders. I like all three of those players, and I'd love any of them to be Chiefs. That being said, they've never been the best defensive players on their own teams. They've always had the very strong front-7s that allowed them to be elite.

If we don't get a space eating NT, a pass rushing OLB, and a run-stopping ILB, it doesn't matter who we put in the defensive backfield. Our defense will be near the bottom of the league. Likewise, if we don't get a legit OT, it doesn't matter what burner WR we get because our QB won't have time to throw to him. If we don't upgrade the trenches of the team, we will go 4-12 again.

brish
03-24-2010, 02:23 PM
I hear you BWilliams.. I do..
But im not sure any of the LT's are that much better than Albert, and Im really unsure of which NT would be worth drafting at #5.

I like McClain though.. Looks like a really solid player, and he was a leader in college. Wouldn't mind him either..

Every analyst says that we are in a prime spot to take whatever we like, because we need upgrades everywhere. Then why am I so torn? :D

bwilliams
03-24-2010, 02:37 PM
I hear you BWilliams.. I do..
But im not sure any of the LT's are that much better than Albert, and Im really unsure of which NT would be worth drafting at #5.

I like McClain though.. Looks like a really solid player, and he was a leader in college. Wouldn't mind him either..

Every analyst says that we are in a prime spot to take whatever we like, because we need upgrades everywhere. Then why am I so torn? :D

Dan Williams would be the NT we draft at #5. And he's going to be pretty great (IMHO). We'd probably pick Baluga at LT. Albert just isn't a very good LT. He led the league in penalties and Cassel kept getting sacked. Is that all his fault? Of course not. But he needs to be moved to OG where he can anchor our line for the next decade.

Now, what do I think we do? I think we trade down to 9 and pick Dan Williams/Baluga there.

I just know what we *won't* do (for better or worse). And that's draft a safety while our lines are still a mess.

chief31
03-24-2010, 07:06 PM
For years and years and year, the Chiefs had the greatest TE of all time on their team. Despite having the greatest TE of all time on our team, we never won a playoff game with him. This wasn't Gonzo's fault. He was our best offensive player and always gave 110%. But if your best offensive player is a TE, you aren't going to win anything.

How does this relate? Eric Berry might be the greatest safety of all time. But if our best defensive player is a safety, we aren't winning anything. A safety *can't* by virture of where he is on the football field, be enough of a difference maker.

Everyone likes to talk about Polamalu, Ed Reed, and Bob Sanders. I like all three of those players, and I'd love any of them to be Chiefs. That being said, they've never been the best defensive players on their own teams. They've always had the very strong front-7s that allowed them to be elite.

If we don't get a space eating NT, a pass rushing OLB, and a run-stopping ILB, it doesn't matter who we put in the defensive backfield. Our defense will be near the bottom of the league. Likewise, if we don't get a legit OT, it doesn't matter what burner WR we get because our QB won't have time to throw to him. If we don't upgrade the trenches of the team, we will go 4-12 again.

Gonzalez was possibly the third best player we had on offense, at least during the Roaf years. Roaf and Shields wer both comparable to TG, and in my opinion, both better overall.

Gonzalez is an elite recieving TE, but not as good at blocking. (Though often underrated.) Roaf and Shields were dominant at every aspect of playing their positions.

And, because our best two players on offense were on the o-line, we had an offense that bested any other offense around.

Wish the defense had been able to make similar claims.

bwilliams
03-25-2010, 12:12 PM
Gonzalez was possibly the third best player we had on offense, at least during the Roaf years. Roaf and Shields wer both comparable to TG, and in my opinion, both better overall.

Gonzalez is an elite recieving TE, but not as good at blocking. (Though often underrated.) Roaf and Shields were dominant at every aspect of playing their positions.

And, because our best two players on offense were on the o-line, we had an offense that bested any other offense around.

Wish the defense had been able to make similar claims.

Absolutely right. I should have specified. When our best players were on the OL (or were priest Holmes) we compiled great records. When our best player was Gonzo (in 2007 and 2008) we went 6-26.

kckidd8870
03-25-2010, 12:49 PM
Look at Pioli's track record for getting o-line in the first round.It just doesnt happen.2008 no o-line in the draft,2007 didn't pick o-line till 5th round,T Clint Oldenburg.In 2006 are guy O'callagan,in the 5th round.2005 he pick T Nick Kaczar in the 3rd round.2004 he didn't get any O-line.2003 he got C Dan Coppen in the 5th.I just can't see it happening guys.

Ryfo18
03-25-2010, 12:57 PM
Look at Pioli's track record for getting o-line in the first round.It just doesnt happen.2008 no o-line in the draft,2007 didn't pick o-line till 5th round,T Clint Oldenburg.In 2006 are guy O'callagan,in the 5th round.2005 he pick T Nick Kaczar in the 3rd round.2004 he didn't get any O-line.2003 he got C Dan Coppen in the 5th.I just can't see it happening guys.

Nose tackle or a pass rusher is highly likely.

bwilliams
03-25-2010, 01:18 PM
Look at Pioli's track record for getting o-line in the first round.It just doesnt happen.2008 no o-line in the draft,2007 didn't pick o-line till 5th round,T Clint Oldenburg.In 2006 are guy O'callagan,in the 5th round.2005 he pick T Nick Kaczar in the 3rd round.2004 he didn't get any O-line.2003 he got C Dan Coppen in the 5th.I just can't see it happening guys.

I posted this elsewhere, but Logan Mankins (OG) was a Pats 1st round pick in 2005, Matt Light (OT) was their 2nd round pick in 2001, and Adrian Klemm (OT) was their 2nd round pick in 2000.

I think that we go NT in the first, but Baluga wouldn't shock me. And we're getting a OT somewhere in our 1st three picks. As I've written often, I think that's going to be Vladamir Ducasse (RT) with our 2a pick.

yashi
03-25-2010, 01:22 PM
Don't forget about Sebastian Vollmer. He was a 2nd rounder last year and he's a stud.

bwilliams
03-25-2010, 01:24 PM
Don't forget about Sebastian Vollmer. He was a 2nd rounder last year and he's a stud.

I agree, but Pioli didn't select him! :chiefs:

yashi
03-25-2010, 01:29 PM
I agree, but Pioli didn't select him! :chiefs:

Oh yeah. :lol:

pbatrucker
03-25-2010, 01:30 PM
Oh yeah. :lol:
It was Pioli's notes though.

KottkeKU
03-25-2010, 03:21 PM
You can't compare Tony G to Eric Berry.

two different teams. Not winning playoff games had nothing to do with Tony. It was because we drafted players on defense like Ryan Sims, Junior Siavii, Eddie Freeman, Turk McBride, need i say more, and NEVER had a defense that could stop anybody. And Safety is FAR more important than TE, especially in the pass happy nfl times we are in nowadays...

I just don't think Dan Williams is the true, powerful, space eating nose tackle you would have to expect from no.5 overall. Mayock himself said Terrence Cody is a better fit in the 3-4 because of he is immovable, and has the ability to take up blocks and space. Dan Williams is a better fit as a 4-3 nose playing next to another DL from what he was saying..i think he is a really good player, just not worth a top 5 pick : / Maybe Im wrong... if we draft him, i hope i am lol...

yashi
03-25-2010, 03:27 PM
I like Dan Williams a lot, just not at #5. He has the exact body type you want in a nose tackle, extremely wide and powerful at the hips.

Honestly it won't happen, but I really wish we'd take Berry and trade back into the 1st to take Charles Brown. I'm a fan.

bwilliams
03-25-2010, 05:00 PM
You can't compare Tony G to Eric Berry.

two different teams. Not winning playoff games had nothing to do with Tony. It was because we drafted players on defense like Ryan Sims, Junior Siavii, Eddie Freeman, Turk McBride, need i say more, and NEVER had a defense that could stop anybody. And Safety is FAR more important than TE, especially in the pass happy nfl times we are in nowadays...

I just don't think Dan Williams is the true, powerful, space eating nose tackle you would have to expect from no.5 overall. Mayock himself said Terrence Cody is a better fit in the 3-4 because of he is immovable, and has the ability to take up blocks and space. Dan Williams is a better fit as a 4-3 nose playing next to another DL from what he was saying..i think he is a really good player, just not worth a top 5 pick : / Maybe Im wrong... if we draft him, i hope i am lol...

I was talking about 2007-2008, when Tony as our best offensive guy and our offense was in shambles. What I was trying (and yes, failing) to say was that if your best offensive player is a TE, your going to be a bad offense. If we draft Berry, he'll be the best player on our defense. If a safety is the best player on your defense, it's going to be a bad defense. Not because the players are bad, but because the positions are of such secondary importance. On a great team, the most important positions (QB, DE) should have the best players, and the lesser positions (S, TE) should have the lesser players.

And S is important. But its not nearly as important at NT, especially in a 3-4. Mike Brown logged a ton of tackles last year, just like Pollard did before him. That's because our run defense was a sieve and they had to make the tackle after a eight yard gain. Until we get a real NT and LBs, it doesn't matter who lines up at S, whether it's Eric Berry or my mom. We're going 4-12.

Eh, Mike Mayock's wrong a whole lot more than he's right (BTW, he has Earl Thomas over Berry). Cody would be a project at 3-4 due his conditioning issues. Williams (IMHO) is ready to step right in. But that's just my guess based on his size and watching him play. I could be wrong. The only thing I'm positive about is that we're going to keep losing until we find a legit NT.

bwilliams
03-25-2010, 05:01 PM
I like Dan Williams a lot, just not at #5. He has the exact body type you want in a nose tackle, extremely wide and powerful at the hips.

Honestly it won't happen, but I really wish we'd take Berry and trade back into the 1st to take Charles Brown. I'm a fan.

Charles Brown isn't a first rounder, I think. He should be there when we pick at 2a.

yashi
03-25-2010, 05:13 PM
Charles Brown isn't a first rounder, I think. He should be there when we pick at 2a.

In that case I would be doing cartwheels all over the place, though I'm so sure we're not going to take Berry at 5.

After Okung, I see Brown as the best fit for our line because he is the perfect zone-blocking tackle: not real strong but tall, very long arms, great athlete, great football school. I question Bulaga's upside, Davis' work ethic and motor, and Campbell is an athlete, not a football player.

bwilliams
03-25-2010, 05:20 PM
In that case I would be doing cartwheels all over the place, though I'm so sure we're not going to take Berry at 5.

After Okung, I see Brown as the best fit for our line because he is the perfect zone-blocking tackle: not real strong but tall, very long arms, great athlete, great football school. I question Bulaga's upside, Davis' work ethic and motor, and Campbell is an athlete, not a football player.

Would you want him at LT or RT?

yashi
03-25-2010, 05:26 PM
Would you want him at LT or RT?

I don't have a strong preference either way. Albert is probably the better run blocker and Brown the better pass blocker, so probably LT.

kckidd8870
03-25-2010, 05:27 PM
Even if he does trade down ,I don't think he will pick Bulaga.Pioli has never drafted O-line in the first round of the draft.Who ever it is, I hope it's not a reach like last year.I like TJ and think he will be a great D-tackle but just a little bet of a reach for 3rd overall pick.

kckidd8870
03-25-2010, 05:29 PM
At the same time TJ might just be that little piece of the puzzle that Pioli is putting together to get us to the promise land.I just wait and see.lol

bwilliams
03-25-2010, 05:31 PM
I don't have a strong preference either way. Albert is probably the better run blocker and Brown the better pass blocker, so probably LT.

I've been thinking, can you think of a reason not to draft a LT and RT, and move Albert inside to RG? Imagine we draft Brown with 2a, Vladamir Ducasse (look him up, he's awesome) with 2b. We could then start an OL of:

Brown/Waters/Wiegmann/Albert/Ducasse, with Lilja and O'Callaghan as the primary reserves.

I mean, that's a legitimately great OL with three longterm pieces in Albert, Ducasse, and Brown.

chief31
03-25-2010, 08:42 PM
Look at Pioli's track record for getting o-line in the first round.It just doesnt happen.2008 no o-line in the draft,2007 didn't pick o-line till 5th round,T Clint Oldenburg.In 2006 are guy O'callagan,in the 5th round.2005 he pick T Nick Kaczar in the 3rd round.2004 he didn't get any O-line.2003 he got C Dan Coppen in the 5th.I just can't see it happening guys.


Pioli has never drafted O-line in the first round of the draft.

A.) TJ doesn't play DT.

B.) How many times do you intend to insenuate that Pioli doesn't take O-linemen early, when Bwilliams is showing you something different?


Logan Mankins (OG) was a Pats 1st round pick in 2005, Matt Light (OT) was their 2nd round pick in 2001, and Adrian Klemm (OT) was their 2nd round pick in 2000.

Even going as far to include his 3rd round o-line pick....


2005 he pick T Nick Kaczar in the 3rd round

But overlooking the first round pick that same season...


Logan Mankins (OG) was a Pats 1st round pick in 2005

Probably just an oversight. Mistakes happen.

But does this change anything about your opinions, or not?

Just curious.

KottkeKU
03-25-2010, 09:37 PM
Pioli has never drafted an OT in the first round. OL includes Mankins bc he plays guard, but Pioli tries to maximize value at every pick, so if a draft is deep on a certain position, i expect Pioli to take advantage of that and not draft a player in the first round or so when he can get a similar player in rounds 3-5

bwilliams
03-26-2010, 01:55 AM
Pioli has never drafted an OT in the first round. OL includes Mankins bc he plays guard, but Pioli tries to maximize value at every pick, so if a draft is deep on a certain position, i expect Pioli to take advantage of that and not draft a player in the first round or so when he can get a similar player in rounds 3-5

Tell the truth, I see us going NT in the 1st. But if we don't go NT, we're going OT. Those are the only two options. I can understand people thinking we *should* do differently, but we won't.

And we can't get a similar player to Baluga/Okung/Williams in rounds 3-5.
We're going to end up with one of those 3.

Boobcrack
03-26-2010, 06:12 PM
I think Pioli will pick an OL with the first pick. I believe the reason that he never picked to many OL early in NE is because he didn't have to. The Pats were already a well established team. Their foundation was already set.

SAPHOJUNKIE
03-26-2010, 07:54 PM
Pioli has never drafted an OT in the first round. OL includes Mankins bc he plays guard, but Pioli tries to maximize value at every pick, so if a draft is deep on a certain position, i expect Pioli to take advantage of that and not draft a player in the first round or so when he can get a similar player in rounds 3-5

You can NOT get a similar tackle in round five that you can in round one. I don't care how deep the draft is.

You can get lucky, but if that's your draft strategy, you won't have a job for long.

We're going with a tackle in the first two rounds, and I'd almost say the first two picks.

Charles Brown will be there at our 2B pick. I think whoever said Ducasse is right on.

i think we could go Berry at #5, and I think we could easily go a different way.

If we took Dan Williams, I would be disappointed, but not surprised. Sorry, but three top-five picks on a 3-4 defensive line is excessive, in my opinion.

I'd be more interested in getting Cam Thomas at the 2B or third round pick.

As of right now, barring a trade, this is how I see us going:

1. Berry
2A. Jerry Hughes
2B. Ducasse
3. Sean Lee

here's what I wish we could do.

1. Traded to Bills for the #9 and #41 pick.
2. Glenn Dorsey traded to Texans for #20 overall.

#9 Dan Williams
#20 Mike Iupati
#35 jerry Hughes (i think he'll fall here)
#41 Nate Allen
#50 Golden Tate
#68 Brandon Spikes

maybe then we get Tyson Alualu for the defensive end position, unless Carrington falls to us in the fourth. This would make me very, very happy.

bwilliams
03-26-2010, 07:57 PM
You can NOT get a similar tackle in round five that you can in round one. I don't care how deep the draft is.

You can get lucky, but if that's your draft strategy, you won't have a job for long.

We're going with a tackle in the first two rounds, and I'd almost say the first two picks.

Charles Brown will be there at our 2B pick. I think whoever said Ducasse is right on.

i think we could go Berry at #5, and I think we could easily go a different way.

If we took Dan Williams, I would be disappointed, but not surprised. Sorry, but three top-five picks on a 3-4 defensive line is excessive, in my opinion.

I'd be more interested in getting Cam Thomas at the 2B or third round pick.

As of right now, barring a trade, this is how I see us going:

1. Berry
2A. Jerry Hughes
2B. Ducasse
3. Sean Lee

here's what I wish we could do.

1. Traded to Bills for the #9 and #41 pick.
2. Glenn Dorsey traded to Texans for #20 overall.

#9 Dan Williams
#20 Mike Iupati
#35 jerry Hughes (i think he'll fall here)
#41 Nate Allen
#50 Golden Tate
#68 Brandon Spikes

maybe then we get Tyson Alualu for the defensive end position, unless Carrington falls to us in the fourth. This would make me very, very happy.

No way the Texans trade a 1st for Dorsey. They probably wouldn't trade a 2nd for him. He's paid too much and hasn't produced enough.

And Golden Tate isn't lasting till #50. I'd wager he doesn't leave the 1st round.