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View Full Version : OK someone's got to say it - we're not drafting Berry



bwilliams
03-23-2010, 10:54 PM
So many of you seem to want to draft Berry. Which is OK, but you also seem to think it will happen. It won't.

Pioli's a guy who wouldn't draft a LB (Curry) last season because he didn't think LBs should be taken top-5. He isn't going to draft a safety top-5, top-10, or top-15, especially when we have big gaps on out OL and DL.

We're going Okung, Baluga, or Williams in the 1st round (barring a massive trade-down). There isn't a whole lot that can be guarenteed, but this can.

Hayvern
03-23-2010, 11:19 PM
I tend to agree with you, but I have been wrong before.

kckidd8870
03-23-2010, 11:27 PM
So what if you trade spots with cleveland ,and Berry is still around.Would you draft him.Only the top five get the big money.

bwilliams
03-24-2010, 12:21 AM
So what if you trade spots with cleveland ,and Berry is still around.Would you draft him.Only the top five get the big money.

If we trade with Cleveland, we go Baluga or Williams. If we pick in the top-15, our 1st round pick will be a LT or NT. Not Berry, McClain, or anyone else.

AussieChiefsFan
03-24-2010, 12:22 AM
He a one in a decade player. Safety is the most desperate position on the team. It's a no brainer. They NEED to draft him!

bwilliams
03-24-2010, 12:51 AM
He a one in a decade player. Safety is the most desperate position on the team. It's a no brainer. They NEED to draft him!

They aren't going to. I understand your reasoning, but it won't happen.

We need a SS desparately this draft. But SS isn't out biggest need. Simply because safety isn't that important a position, compared to NT or LT.

AussieChiefsFan
03-24-2010, 01:39 AM
They aren't going to. I understand your reasoning, but it won't happen.

We need a SS desparately this draft. But SS isn't out biggest need. Simply because safety isn't that important a position, compared to NT or LT.
it is when the only descent one left is jarad page!

wildcat
03-24-2010, 09:19 AM
I tend to agree with what most of you are saying, but just to look at the other side of the debate... aren't we overpaying Tyson Jackson? He was projected to go somewhere in the middle of the round but we selected him at the top of the draft and are overpaying him because Pioli thought he was the best fit.

I could see Pioli drafting Berry IF he believes he is his kind of guy and there is no better option available. Besides, since this is an uncapped year, doesn't that mean we can sign Berry at whatever amount is agreed on? Maybe Berry is sensible and does not think he should be made into the highest paid safety ever before he has proven himself at the next level.

With all of that said, I believe that OT or NT is more likely to be Pioli's choice, but I am not going to pretend to know what is in his head. Pioli seems to be the type who plays the chess game and misdirects people.

bwilliams
03-24-2010, 09:53 AM
I tend to agree with what most of you are saying, but just to look at the other side of the debate... aren't we overpaying Tyson Jackson? He was projected to go somewhere in the middle of the round but we selected him at the top of the draft and are overpaying him because Pioli thought he was the best fit.

I could see Pioli drafting Berry IF he believes he is his kind of guy and there is no better option available. Besides, since this is an uncapped year, doesn't that mean we can sign Berry at whatever amount is agreed on? Maybe Berry is sensible and does not think he should be made into the highest paid safety ever before he has proven himself at the next level.

With all of that said, I believe that OT or NT is more likely to be Pioli's choice, but I am not going to pretend to know what is in his head. Pioli seems to be the type who plays the chess game and misdirects people.

But (in Pioli's way of thinking) we're not overpaying Tyson Jackson, based on his positional value. If Tyson Jackson were an elite DE, he'd be making his current salary. I mean, that's the reason we picked him over Curry. Pioli wants to apportion his money based on what he thinks the position is worth. He's willing to shell out $10M/year to a QB/LT/DE. He isn't willing to shell out $10M/year to a S/RB/TE. Part of the reason is longevity - hard hitting safeties and running backs don't tend to last that long at an elite level, while top LTs and NTs do - and part of the reason is that teams can win SBs with average safeties but no average DLs and OLs.

I mean, I get the love for berry. He's the best safety prospect since Sean Taylor. He's fast, skilled, and would immediately upgrade our secondary. But if your best defensive player is a SS, you're not getting to the playoffs. Same as if your best offensive player is a TE, which is why we traded Tony G.

The current braintrust's plan is to pay a certain value for each position, with the most important positions getting the most money. You may disagree with this strategy (personally, I don't think it works unless you have some amazingly unselfish personnel and a Tom Brady-level QB), but it's what we're doing.

wildcat
03-24-2010, 11:11 AM
The current braintrust's plan is to pay a certain value for each position, with the most important positions getting the most money. You may disagree with this strategy (personally, I don't think it works unless you have some amazingly unselfish personnel and a Tom Brady-level QB), but it's what we're doing.

Like I said in my post, I agree with that and I understand why we presumably went DE instead of LB. I was just stating the other side of the argument. I think we are most likely to continue to use the same apparent strategy that landed us TJ. However, we can't pretend to know everything about Pioli based on how we think he went about selecting our picks last year.

yashi
03-24-2010, 11:32 AM
Take Berry, trade back into the first round and draft Charles Brown, zone-blocking OT extraordinaire from USC. Everyone's happy!

buffman316
03-24-2010, 12:25 PM
That is history but it a situation where we have no Safety playmaker and one of the best safety playmaker's in recent history will be sitting there. Berry fits this team like no other top 10 player and history could easily be changed here.

Ryfo18
03-24-2010, 12:41 PM
We have gaping holes everywhere on this team...I'm just glad to have 3 picks in the top 50 of this deep draft. I wouldn't mind Berry, but if we don't take him I won't be too disappointed. I think the money is better spent at another position anyways. I still can't justify making a rookie the highest paid guy at his position. Just seems like it would skew the financials a little bit. I know, I know, the argument is that we spend this money anyways. Very true, but certain positions in general cost more than other positions. What if we take Berry and resign Charles to a huge contract. You have a lot of money tied up into QB, RB, and S. QB is generallly the highest paid anyways, so understood. RB is usually middle of the pack in terms of salary, and S is usually one of the lowest paid positions. This takes a huge hit on the money we have to spend on quality linemen (offensively and defensively) and other critical positions.

If we take Berry, there may be a good possibility Flowers doesn't get resigned once he becomes a FA, b/c our secondary would cost too much.

I just think to me honestly, Berry would be great to have, a playmaker! But it's still not worth having to pay him huge money and completely restructure the team's salary structure. I say look to Myron Rolle. Maybe not as big a playmaker, but very smart on and off the field. This is just what you want at safety, someone who knows where he should be and doesn't get beat deep.

bwilliams
03-24-2010, 12:56 PM
That is history but it a situation where we have no Safety playmaker and one of the best safety playmaker's in recent history will be sitting there. Berry fits this team like no other top 10 player and history could easily be changed here.

My point isn't that we shouldn't take Berry. It's that we won't. I'm just saying that people are getting their hopes up. You shouldn't. You also shouldn't be disappointed when we don't draft Berry. It was never going to happen.

KottkeKU
03-24-2010, 01:27 PM
i think you can really make a point either way.

For Berry - we have plenty of holes to fill, he's the best player available, we need a secondary upgrade, we need someone on defense who can create turnovers, he would dominate NFC quarterbacks, etc.

Against Berry - too much money for a rookie safety. SS is not of value for a top 5 overall selection. Someone else is available (Bulaga, Dan Williams) that is of higher positional value. Pioli's history shows him not taking a safety, etc.

So on paper, it looks like there is more evidence of Pioli NOT taking Berry. But he is very creative, and always thinking out of the box. Nor has he drafted this high many times before. You just never know is what i am saying. I wouldn't be surprised to see him go with the playmaker, as I think Pioli is actually trying to win football games now...Berry could be a staple of our defense for years. Our D-Line is young, but talented. They might not be as bad as some may think.

And i still think we can get a NT to team with Glenn Dorsey and Tyson Jackson in the 2nd round.

AussieChiefsFan
03-24-2010, 04:09 PM
Safety is by far the weakest positiion on the team with the latest FA signings relating to the offensive line. ERIC BERRY!

moshak
03-24-2010, 04:15 PM
Here is what will settle everything-We trade with buffallo so they can get Clausen and then the draft would look like this-
Rams-Bradford
Lions-Suh
Bucs-McCoy
redskins-Okung
Bills-Clausen
Seahawks-Bulaga
Browns-Joe Haden
Raiders-Bruce Campell
Chiefs- ERIC BERRY

That WOULD BE GREAT AND IT IS SOMEWHAT POSSIBLE, RIGHT???

matthewschiefs
03-24-2010, 04:16 PM
Safety is by far the weakest positiion on the team with the latest FA signings relating to the offensive line. ERIC BERRY!

Safety might be a larger need then other spots but IMO we need pass rush more. It won't matter if we take Berry if we don't get a pass rush. Last year QBs had time to read a book make lunch take a nap before they had to get rid of the ball even if we have berry guys will be able to get open in that amount of time. WE HAVE TO GET A PASS RUSH to make any gains on the defensive side of the ball.

AussieChiefsFan
03-24-2010, 04:18 PM
Safety might be a larger need then other spots but IMO we need pass rush more. It won't matter if we take Berry if we don't get a pass rush. Last year QBs had time to read a book make lunch take a nap before they had to get rid of the ball even if we have berry guys will be able to get open in that amount of time. WE HAVE TO GET A PASS RUSH to make any gains on the defensive side of the ball.
Berry in the first round. A pass rusher in the 2nd round.

moshak
03-24-2010, 04:20 PM
Berry in the first round. A pass rusher in the 2nd round.
Yah, Someone like Jerry Hughes in the second round and then also get Arthur Jones in the second.

AussieChiefsFan
03-24-2010, 04:32 PM
Yah, Someone like Jerry Hughes in the second round and then also get Arthur Jones in the second.
:bananen_smilies046: Berry in the first! Kansas City Chiefs - Draft Eric Berry at #5!!! | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=112905642053470)

matthewschiefs
03-24-2010, 05:39 PM
Berry in the first round. A pass rusher in the 2nd round.

To me it will all depend on whos there at 5 if theres a guy who would be a Upgrade on the d line I think that should be the way to go. If not then Berry should be. Thats just how i see it. Berry being added will help the d yes but a pass rusher would help more. I would like berry but only if we do address the D line later.

jacko58
03-24-2010, 05:44 PM
So many of you seem to want to draft Berry. Which is OK, but you also seem to think it will happen. It won't.

Pioli's a guy who wouldn't draft a LB (Curry) last season because he didn't think LBs should be taken top-5. He isn't going to draft a safety top-5, top-10, or top-15, especially when we have big gaps on out OL and DL.

We're going Okung, Baluga, or Williams in the 1st round (barring a massive trade-down). There isn't a whole lot that
can be guarenteed, but this can.

im getting tire of comments like this. ok you cant scratch off any positions with our top five pick last time i checked ur not the head coach todd haley is ur not the gm scott pioli is. and there gonna blow smoke say we wont do this we wont do that. bulaga is getting to much hype due to some idiotic comments by some fans and sports writers why are peoplr high on random players? to stur up the pot cant say heres the top ten picks and expect that to last for three freakin months im tired of this they wont do this they wont do that the chiefs will do what they think will help this team out the most rather you like it or not and im ok with that and all chiefs fans should to were not the coach i dont care what piolis history was with the pats were not the pats hell do what has to be done to make us a better team rather its taking a ot og c wr te lb nt ss fs cb qb with our picks this isnt madden in real life there isnt a rating system you cant say well berrys a 95 rated safety baluga a 99 rated ot trust pioli and haley and weis and crennel i do! good day chief fans!

Xanathol
03-24-2010, 09:00 PM
I can see Pioli going with an OT if KC doesn't trade for one or the like, but not a NT in the first. Why take Dan Williams in the first that high whenyou can most likely get Cody, Odrick, Joseph, Troup, etc in the 2nd or later?

Ryfo18
03-24-2010, 09:17 PM
im getting tire of comments like this. ok you cant scratch off any positions with our top five pick last time i checked ur not the head coach todd haley is ur not the gm scott pioli is. and there gonna blow smoke say we wont do this we wont do that. bulaga is getting to much hype due to some idiotic comments by some fans and sports writers why are peoplr high on random players? to stur up the pot cant say heres the top ten picks and expect that to last for three freakin months im tired of this they wont do this they wont do that the chiefs will do what they think will help this team out the most rather you like it or not and im ok with that and all chiefs fans should to were not the coach i dont care what piolis history was with the pats were not the pats hell do what has to be done to make us a better team rather its taking a ot og c wr te lb nt ss fs cb qb with our picks this isnt madden in real life there isnt a rating system you cant say well berrys a 95 rated safety baluga a 99 rated ot trust pioli and haley and weis and crennel i do! good day chief fans!

It all boils down to money...you don't invest that much money in a safety.

jacko58
03-24-2010, 09:37 PM
but you do in a unproven o lineman, or another defensive lineman???

Ryfo18
03-24-2010, 09:50 PM
but you do in a unproven o lineman, or another defensive lineman???

They're all unproven. The average salary for a safety is higher than only two other positions, the punter/kicker and tight ends. The average defensive end salary is nearly $700K more, and the average offensive lineman salary is about $400K more.

My point is, when you have that much invested into a position that you typically don't pay that much, it really takes away from the quality of players you can afford for the higher paid (and arguably more important) positions. I just think it's outrageous (and I think Pioli agrees with me) to draft a rookie safety and make him the highest paid player at his position. Good offensive linemen and defensive linemen have the ability to make EVERYONE around them better, play in and play out. It's tough to say the same for a safety.

jacko58
03-24-2010, 10:51 PM
safetys not a important position??hmm interesting take, being a former safety myself let me make a argument, flowers is a vary vary good corner carr is solid as well but without the safetys having there back they got picked on, page will improve this team when hes healthy next year, that will help carr but who will we put behind flowers? the ravens d would be no where as dominant without reed thats why him retireing scares them the steelers d is no where near as scary without polomalu safetys are a vary important part of the team, my point as to worrying about paying a safety is youd rather pay another number one pick d lineman, that makes three number one pick d lineman two number one pick linebackers one being a former d end aka hali

Ryfo18
03-24-2010, 11:59 PM
safetys not a important position??hmm interesting take, being a former safety myself let me make a argument, flowers is a vary vary good corner carr is solid as well but without the safetys having there back they got picked on, page will improve this team when hes healthy next year, that will help carr but who will we put behind flowers? the ravens d would be no where as dominant without reed thats why him retireing scares them the steelers d is no where near as scary without polomalu safetys are a vary important part of the team, my point as to worrying about paying a safety is youd rather pay another number one pick d lineman, that makes three number one pick d lineman two number one pick linebackers one being a former d end aka hali

I never said safety wasn't important, you're putting words in my mouth. I said that the offensive and defensive lines are more important. Without either, you can't do anything. I'm also a former safety, one who benefitted very much from my defensive line being stellar and not giving the quarterback any time to throw. The defensive line and linebackers can make a safety look good by forcing the QB to make quick decisions.

Like I said, I agree that Berry would make this team better, but getting a pass rush or a line that can block makes everyone better. Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu are good and talented players, but look at the guys in front of them.

matthewschiefs
03-25-2010, 12:14 AM
I never said safety wasn't important, you're putting words in my mouth. I said that the offensive and defensive lines are more important. Without either, you can't do anything. I'm also a former safety, one who benefitted very much from my defensive line being stellar and not giving the quarterback any time to throw. The defensive line and linebackers can make a safety look good by forcing the QB to make quick decisions.

Like I said, I agree that Berry would make this team better, but getting a pass rush or a line that can block makes everyone better. Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu are good and talented players, but look at the guys in front of them.

could not agree more. PASS RUSH and a good running D and the rest will look better right away.

AussieChiefsFan
03-25-2010, 12:45 AM
I agree that they need to address other positions but Safety is very weak ATM. So if Berry is there at #5 it's a no brainer!

kcallin
03-25-2010, 01:03 AM
ok first off I am for drafting Berry.

just a ? even if we went with a D line guy, how often are we going to get to the QB? We are not going to get a sack every play, it's just not going to happen. The safety gets in on some pass rushing on the QB.

Quite a few people are quick to say no way to Berry because of $$$ or to high of a pick for safety, it's wearing me out, he is one of the TOP RATED players in this draft, what is wrong with getting him?? Im tired of all this money talk B.S. ITS THE BIGGEST NEED ON THE TEAM RIGHT NOW!!!!

stricken721
03-25-2010, 01:11 AM
ok first off I am for drafting Berry.

just a ? even if we went with a D line guy, how often are we going to get to the QB? We are not going to get a sack every play, it's just not going to happen. The safety gets in on some pass rushing on the QB.

Quite a few people are quick to say no way to Berry because of $$$ or to high of a pick for safety, it's wearing me out, he is one of the TOP RATED players in this draft, what is wrong with getting him?? Im tired of all this money talk B.S. ITS THE BIGGEST NEED ON THE TEAM RIGHT NOW!!!!


Nothing is necessarily wrong with drafting him. I think the fact is too many people here know how Pioli works. He finds better value in drafting a safety in the mid to late rounds or through free agency. I won't say he will or will not draft Berry, but if he does it's very uncharacteristic for him.

jacko58
03-25-2010, 01:19 AM
could not agree more. PASS RUSH and a good running D and the rest will look better right away.

i agree with both of you as well and didnt mean to take what you said out of context i just dont see us taking another top pick on a defensive lineman or olb until later in the draft and the way weve talked bout our oline i dont see us putting more number one picks on the line with who have signed

Ryfo18
03-25-2010, 01:20 AM
ok first off I am for drafting Berry.

just a ? even if we went with a D line guy, how often are we going to get to the QB? We are not going to get a sack every play, it's just not going to happen. The safety gets in on some pass rushing on the QB.

Quite a few people are quick to say no way to Berry because of $$$ or to high of a pick for safety, it's wearing me out, he is one of the TOP RATED players in this draft, what is wrong with getting him?? Im tired of all this money talk B.S. ITS THE BIGGEST NEED ON THE TEAM RIGHT NOW!!!!

Aaron Curry was THE top rated player in last year's draft. Darren McFadden was the same in 2008. Jamarcus Russell in 2007. Reggie Bush in 2006. I could care less about "top rated."

The Chiefs are a team that gave up the 6th most sacks in the league, and was 2nd to last in sacking the QB (they had 22, the leader had 48), and their biggest need is safety? That's a silly argument.

You're right, we're not going to get to the QB every play, but if you set a trend that you're going to get to the QB, it can kill an offenses game plan.

Who was the last great Chiefs safety? Deron Cherry? I recall Neil Smith and Derrick Thomas being on the same team for a couple years with him...

jacko58
03-25-2010, 01:22 AM
agree kcallin

Ryfo18
03-25-2010, 01:29 AM
i agree with both of you as well and didnt mean to take what you said out of context i just dont see us taking another top pick on a defensive lineman or olb until later in the draft and the way weve talked bout our oline i dont see us putting more number one picks on the line with who have signed

Fair enough, I understand the hype with Berry. I do think he will probably be a good player, great is yet to be determined...It's a lot to invest into a safety.

I would love to see the Chiefs trade down to get a NT that can plug the middle. He's not going to be flashy, but it's such a critical position that the run and pass defense highly rely on. If he's taking up 2-3 blockers every play, our team is going to have success. And I also realize that we could take a defensive or offensive linemen and he could suck bad. But early picks on these guys tend to be more reliable. A lot of people get caught up with 40 times and guys that might make 1 or 2 big plays a year, I just think we can find a serviceable safety in the mid rounds.

kcallin
03-25-2010, 01:42 AM
ok let me make this real clear...F@#k getting a NT,OT at 5,or what the hell else S#$T that comes out of some "sport writers" mouth, we need a GOD@#$% safety, who does not understand the concept of the safety and the impact he would have????? Sometimes I feel like about the only one who is wanting the CHIEFS to get Berry.

pbatrucker
03-25-2010, 01:46 AM
ok let me make this real clear...F@#k getting a NT,OT at 5,or what the hell else S# that comes out of some "sport writers" mouth, we need a GOD@#$% safety, who does not understand the concept of the safety and the impact he would have????? Sometimes I feel like about the only one who is wanting the CHIEFS to get Berry.

Another one who has over dosed on the Berry Juice!!!!
No safety is going to look good until we fix the front seven!!!!

stricken721
03-25-2010, 01:49 AM
ok let me make this real clear...F@#k getting a NT,OT at 5,or what the hell else S# that comes out of some "sport writers" mouth, we need a GOD@#$% safety, who does not understand the concept of the safety and the impact he would have????? Sometimes I feel like about the only one who is wanting the CHIEFS to get Berry.

I can assure you that you are not the only one that wants the Chiefs to get Berry. Also.. are you insinuating that sports writers are not real?

kcallin
03-25-2010, 01:51 AM
Another one who has over dosed on the Berry Juice!!!!
No safety is going to look good until we fix the front seven!!!!
Yea that's it let's keep dumping money on the D line. How has that worked out so far?

kcallin
03-25-2010, 01:54 AM
I can assure you that you are not the only one that wants the Chiefs to get Berry. Also.. are you insinuating that sports writers are not real?
No sorry that's not how I meant it, It's just that some people follow there every word like it was some kind of sports bible scripture.

Ryfo18
03-25-2010, 01:54 AM
ok let me make this real clear...F@#k getting a NT,OT at 5,or what the hell else S# that comes out of some "sport writers" mouth, we need a GOD@#$% safety, who does not understand the concept of the safety and the impact he would have????? Sometimes I feel like about the only one who is wanting the CHIEFS to get Berry.

I don't...6th worst in sacks given up, 2nd worst in sacks from the defensive side of the ball. Not the #1 priority. Calm down dude.

Ryfo18
03-25-2010, 01:57 AM
No sorry that's not how I meant it, It's just that some people follow there every word like it was some kind of sports bible scripture.

I'm not following anything, you're the one getting hyped about the sports writers calling Berry "the most talented athlete in this year's draft." If you would take a look at the big picture, we'd be better off fixing the O and D lines and then taking a serviceable safety in the middle rounds. A great line can make a good safety look great.

kcallin
03-25-2010, 02:01 AM
No I get hyped because we need a good safety and some fans like yourself almost think we don't need a saftey,but rather it's all about the line, I just don't agree with that.

Ryfo18
03-25-2010, 02:03 AM
No I get hyped because we need a good safety and some fans like yourself almost think we don't need a saftey,but rather it's all about the line, I just don't agree with that.

Ok, agree to disagree...I've presented nothing but facts and analysis as to why safety is not our priority, and you just insist it is.

kcallin
03-25-2010, 02:11 AM
"Since (Bernard) Pollard entered the starting lineup in Week 4, the Texans allowed only 84.3 yards per game on the ground and 3.6 yards per carry after allowing 205 yards per game over the first three." footballsfuture.com


I think safety has a huge impact, and the numbers prove it.

Ryfo18
03-25-2010, 02:14 AM
"Since (Bernard) Pollard entered the starting lineup in Week 4, the Texans allowed only 84.3 yards per game on the ground and 3.6 yards per carry after allowing 205 yards per game over the first three." footballsfuture.com


I think safety has a huge impact, and the numbers prove it.

Brian Cushing? Demorrio Williams? Did the Chiefs show the same improvement when Pollard was here? Did we get worse?

stricken721
03-25-2010, 02:19 AM
"Since (Bernard) Pollard entered the starting lineup in Week 4, the Texans allowed only 84.3 yards per game on the ground and 3.6 yards per carry after allowing 205 yards per game over the first three." footballsfuture.com


I think safety has a huge impact, and the numbers prove it.

Do keep in mind that the Texans also played 3 of the best rushing teams in the league before Pollard. NYJ, Titans, and Jaguars. After that they didn't play a team that had a good running game until they played the Titans again in week 11 which in that game Chris Johnson rushed for 151 yards which is almost double that 84.3. So other than those 3 teams.. they didn't have much of anybody to stop in the running game.

kcallin
03-25-2010, 02:20 AM
Brian Cushing..He was part of the team giving up 200+ yards the first 3 games, in comes Pollard and the number is cut by more than half.

AussieChiefsFan
03-25-2010, 02:47 AM
Brian Cushing..He was part of the team giving up 200+ yards the first 3 games, in comes Pollard and the number is cut by more than half.
That was a stupid decision, getting rid of pollard. Eric Berry can come in, in his place!

Connie Jo
03-25-2010, 03:05 AM
I'm thinking out loud here after reading through this thread. I admit I know little about the Draft with not following NCAA football, etc....and this post likely could reveal my ignorance of such, but oh well! hahaha

What I do know is...it's true teams do all they can to keep it behind closed doors as to who they have a serious interest in drafting. GM's & Coaches will play head games, including using the media with comments intended intentionally to give them a draft advantage related to a variety of reasons.

What 'IF', and I realize it's a big 'IF' after all the opinions I've read here...Pioli is indeed seriously considering Berry?

The majority of opinions are Pioli won't draft Berry based upon theory in principle, money, & his drafting history. Well, what about considering theories as to why he could draft Berry? Although out of character for him, that would definitely be to his advantage if he does indeed want Berry, haha.

One possible theory might be related to forethought, even beyond the 2010 season. I don't know, but who else is out there available this year, or next, to fill our much needed position of Safety...of which can possibly compare as is expected of Berry? Especially by comparison to the number of possible OL & DL players out there?

I could be wrong, but it's been my impression that great Safeties are more rare in the NFL than that of OL & DL positions...no?

Is Berry's talent as a Safety so obvious that Clark, Pioli, & Haley might possibly consider Berry to be more valuable, & worth the money...than normally would be a Safety in the Draft? Especially related to building a consistent Chiefs team long term?

Consider this factor too...a good GM will pay attention to an opinion, or desire held of his teams fan base majority. Fans may not have the education or experience of an NFL GM...but a majority have just as much passion, knowledge, and intelligent logic related to the game & their teams needs to resolve problems. It's not as if the overall opinion held by a majority of fans should not have any value with those in power, such as a GM. Well, unless you have an ego such as that became of CP, and believe fans opinions don't matter at all, haha. We all know what happen to CP when his ego allowed him to ignore fan base desires over his own, hahaha.

The NFL is a business for profit, and no different than any other business...you must do your best to keep your customer happy. It's been made perfectly clear to Clark Hunt, as well as Pioli, Haley...that the overall Chiefs fan base is not happy. Assuming they're intelligent businessmen, they have to be concerned with making Chiefs fans happy in 2010, and would be considering a variety of ways to achieve that...including possibly spending more money for Berry as Safety. Afterall...from what I've gathered by reading around the net...it appears the majority of Chiefs fans are in favor of drafting Berry over any one else. Within that majority lies another majority...unhappy Chiefs fans not willing to buy tickets. Would Berry make a difference in that aspect also...since he appears the popular draft desire of a Chiefs fan base majority?

Okay, I'm done rambling out loud with my lack of Draft knowledge theories related to the Chiefs powers possibly drafting Berry, hahaha. :)

AussieChiefsFan
03-25-2010, 03:10 AM
I'm thinking out loud here after reading through this thread. I admit I know little about the Draft with not following NCAA football, etc....and this post likely could reveal my ignorance of such, but oh well! hahaha

What I do know is...it's true teams do all they can to keep it behind closed doors as to who they have a serious interest in drafting. GM's & Coaches will play head games, including using the media with comments intended intentionally to give them a draft advantage related to a variety of reasons.

What 'IF', and I realize it's a big 'IF' after all the opinions I've read here...Pioli is indeed seriously considering Berry?

The majority of opinions are Pioli won't draft Berry based upon theory in principle, money, & his drafting history. Well, what about considering theories as to why he could draft Berry? Although out of character for him, that would definitely be to his advantage if he does indeed want Berry, haha.

One possible theory might be related to forethought, even beyond the 2010 season. I don't know, but who else is out there available this year, or next, to fill our much needed position of Safety...of which can possibly compare as is expected of Berry? Especially by comparison to the number of possible OL & DL players out there?

I could be wrong, but it's been my impression that great Safeties are more rare in the NFL than that of OL & DL positions...no?

Is Berry's talent as a Safety so obvious that Clark, Pioli, & Haley might possibly consider Berry to be more valuable, & worth the money...than normally would be a Safety in the Draft? Especially related to building a consistent Chiefs team long term?

Consider this factor too...a good GM will pay attention to an opinion, or desire held of his teams fan base majority. Fans may not have the education or experience of an NFL GM...but a majority have just as much passion, knowledge, and intelligent logic related to the game & their teams needs to resolve problems. It's not as if the overall opinion held by a majority of fans should not have any value with those in power, such as a GM. Well, unless you have an ego such as that became of CP, and believe fans opinions don't matter at all, haha. We all know what happen to CP when his ego allowed him to ignore fan base desires over his own, hahaha.

The NFL is a business for profit, and no different than any other business...you must do your best to keep your customer happy. It's been made perfectly clear to Clark Hunt, as well as Pioli, Haley...that the overall Chiefs fan base is not happy. Assuming they're intelligent businessmen, they have to be concerned with making Chiefs fans happy in 2010, and would be considering a variety of ways to achieve that...including possibly spending more money for Berry as Safety. Afterall...from what I've gathered by reading around the net...it appears the majority of Chiefs fans are in favor of drafting Berry over any one else. Within that majority lies another majority...unhappy Chiefs fans not willing to buy tickets. Would Berry make a difference in that aspect also...since he appears the popular draft desire of a Chiefs fan base majority?

Okay, I'm done rambling out loud with my lack of Draft knowledge theories related to the Chiefs powers possibly drafting Berry, hahaha. :)I'm hoping he is.

chief31
03-25-2010, 03:10 AM
the ravens d would be no where as dominant without reed thats why him retireing scares them

The Ravens' defense was better before Reed.

And The Steelers were no worse before Polamalu.

Now, both of those defenses had great Safeties prior to those guys. But the point is that both of those defenses were already dominant, and the addition at Safety was an enhancement, not the building block.


ok first off I am for drafting Berry.

just a ? even if we went with a D line guy, how often are we going to get to the QB? We are not going to get a sack every play, it's just not going to happen. The safety gets in on some pass rushing on the QB.



The 3-4 D-line isn't there to get sacks.


ok let me make this real clear...F@#k getting a NT,OT at 5,or what the hell else S# that comes out of some "sport writers" mouth, we need a GOD@#$% safety, who does not understand the concept of the safety and the impact he would have????? Sometimes I feel like about the only one who is wanting the CHIEFS to get Berry.

You.

I am not against drafting Berry. But that's only because there is not likely to be another player that meets our needs, that is valued as high as #5.

Just a little side note, Mike Brown was one of the top "Playmakers" in The NFL before he came here.

He didn't change, except to have finally stayed healthy, which is a plus.

What changed is he found himself playing in a crappy defense, and the way he used to do things no longer worked.

That is what happens to "Playmaker" Safties who go to play on poor defenses.

Instead of running up to make a big tackle against the run, they find themselves being blocked, or just having their teammates shoved into their way. Which forces them to take a bad angle, and makes them look like terrible tacklers.

They no longer get to jump a route based on their "read" of a QB, because the QB doesn't have to throw it right now. So when they do try that, they wind up getting torched, because they are out of position. And if they don't try that, then they don't get to "make the play".

Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu were added to already great defenses, so they flourished and were able to go make those plays. Had either of them been added to The Detroit Lions, they would likely be out of the league by now.

Connie Jo
03-25-2010, 03:19 AM
Aussie...I had you in mind when I decided to make that post, hahaha. I had a feeling all the 'no Berry' posts were becoming a bit discouraging, so wanted to throw some positive possibilities out there to balance a bit to your side of the fence. I tend to favor the underdogs, hahaha. :)

AussieChiefsFan
03-25-2010, 03:37 AM
Aussie...I had you in mind when I decided to make that post, hahaha. I had a feeling all the 'no Berry' posts were becoming a bit discouraging, so wanted to throw some positive possibilities out there to balance a bit to your side of the fence. I tend to favor the underdogs, hahaha. :)
Thanks for the concern Connie Jo. Nah, dont worry about me getting down on Berry. Ill be rooting for him 100% for the next 28 days until the darft! I think he's a perfect player to draft because the Chiefs NEED a safety and quick! AND he's a great safety, so it's perfect!
GO ERIC BERRY!
GO JAMAAL CHARLES!
GO CHIEFS!!
Unless The faders draft him I'll always be one of my more favorite players that aren't in the Chiefs jersey (if he doesn't get drafted by them!)
:bananen_smilies046:

Ryfo18
03-25-2010, 10:18 AM
The Ravens' defense was better before Reed.

And The Steelers were no worse before Polamalu.

Now, both of those defenses had great Safeties prior to those guys. But the point is that both of those defenses were already dominant, and the addition at Safety was an enhancement, not the building block.



The 3-4 D-line isn't there to get sacks.



You.

I am not against drafting Berry. But that's only because there is not likely to be another player that meets our needs, that is valued as high as #5.

Just a little side note, Mike Brown was one of the top "Playmakers" in The NFL before he came here.

He didn't change, except to have finally stayed healthy, which is a plus.

What changed is he found himself playing in a crappy defense, and the way he used to do things no longer worked.

That is what happens to "Playmaker" Safties who go to play on poor defenses.

Instead of running up to make a big tackle against the run, they find themselves being blocked, or just having their teammates shoved into their way. Which forces them to take a bad angle, and makes them look like terrible tacklers.

They no longer get to jump a route based on their "read" of a QB, because the QB doesn't have to throw it right now. So when they do try that, they wind up getting torched, because they are out of position. And if they don't try that, then they don't get to "make the play".

Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu were added to already great defenses, so they flourished and were able to go make those plays. Had either of them been added to The Detroit Lions, they would likely be out of the league by now.

:sign0098:. I agree 100%, while it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world if they took Berry (I was initially on the Berry bandwagon), I still fill the Chiefs as a whole benefit more from improving the front 7 and taking a safety in the middle rounds. You're right on about it being a position of enhancement though, and not one to build your defense around.:postpimp4ib:

Seek
03-25-2010, 01:12 PM
Berry in the first round. A pass rusher in the 2nd round.

And a stretcher for Cassell in the third round. The online nees help. Our upgrades were not spectacular and aging. We need either starters or potential starters to groom as depth.

Seek
03-25-2010, 01:16 PM
but you do in a unproven o lineman, or another defensive lineman???

Yes, because a failed corner could be an excellent starter at Safety. An undersized LB could be safety.

You get what you get with O lineman and D lineman except for mayabe a TE.

Safeties are only as good as the people in front of them.

yashi
03-25-2010, 01:21 PM
And a stretcher for Cassell in the third round.
:lol::lol::lol:

Seek
03-25-2010, 01:22 PM
Aaron Curry was THE top rated player in last year's draft. Darren McFadden was the same in 2008. Jamarcus Russell in 2007. Reggie Bush in 2006. I could care less about "top rated."

The Chiefs are a team that gave up the 6th most sacks in the league, and was 2nd to last in sacking the QB (they had 22, the leader had 48), and their biggest need is safety? That's a silly argument.

You're right, we're not going to get to the QB every play, but if you set a trend that you're going to get to the QB, it can kill an offenses game plan.

Who was the last great Chiefs safety? Deron Cherry? I recall Neil Smith and Derrick Thomas being on the same team for a couple years with him...

funny you bring up Deron Cherry. He was signed by the Chiefs to be the punter and filled in as safety during practice and the rest is history.

We have had some very good safeties on this team drafted later in the draft.

Ryfo18
03-25-2010, 01:26 PM
funny you bring up Deron Cherry. He was signed by the Chiefs to be the punter and filled in as safety during practice and the rest is history.

We have had some very good safeties on this team drafted later in the draft.

Really? Thanks for that little bit of info, I didn't know that. REP!

Seek
03-25-2010, 02:10 PM
Really? Thanks for that little bit of info, I didn't know that. REP!

My story maybe be off a little, becasue for some reason I am think I recall Deron saying he jumped in at safety during a game and not practice, but he was indeed signed to compete as a punter. He did play safety though in college, so it wasn't like total garbage that he did well. He was an UFA and was not drafted.