PDA

View Full Version : ChiefsCrowd.com Article : Eric Berry - Making the Case



Coach
03-30-2010, 12:20 AM
Read Article Here... (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=14911&Itemid=2)

bwilliams
03-30-2010, 10:13 AM
The author does a good job demostrating that safety is not the injury-prone position everyone thinks it is.

But he misses the larger point. We're not debating whether to draft a QB or FS. No one thinks the Chiefs should draft a QB. How often QBs are hurt is immaterial. What is materials is that, in addition to safety, our team needs a starting OT, NT, ILB, and TE out of this draft and the remainder of FA. We could use help at WR, KR/PR, and OLB as well. And depth at OG/C couldn't hurt.

Our team has bigger needs than FS. A team can win with an average FS. A team can't win with our current OL or DL. It doesn't matter of Eric Berry is the greatest safety in the history, he will not not change a 4-win team to a 10-win team. Neither would the greatest kicker. Or the greatest punter. Or the greatest TE. A legitimate LT could. A legitimate NT could.

yashi
03-30-2010, 10:43 AM
The author does a good job demostrating that safety is not the injury-prone position everyone thinks it is.

But he misses the larger point. We're not debating whether to draft a QB or FS. No one thinks the Chiefs should draft a QB. How often QBs are hurt is immaterial. What is materials is that, in addition to safety, our team needs a starting OT, NT, ILB, and TE out of this draft and the remainder of FA. We could use help at WR, KR/PR, and OLB as well. And depth at OG/C couldn't hurt.

Our team has bigger needs than FS. A team can win with an average FS. A team can't win with our current OL or DL. It doesn't matter of Eric Berry is the greatest safety in the history, he will not not change a 4-win team to a 10-win team. Neither would the greatest kicker. Or the greatest punter. Or the greatest TE. A legitimate LT could. A legitimate NT could.

You know what's kind of weird though. If you look at the starting LTs in the playoffs last year, most of them were far from elite. The only position that really seems to truly single-handedly make a good team is QB. I don't think there were any star QBs who weren't on playoff teams last year.

Kind of makes you hope Cassel makes huge strides next season and becomes an Aaron Rodgers or Philip Rivers. You can win without a stud QB, but it almost requires you to have both an elite running game and defense (Jets).

bwilliams
03-30-2010, 11:08 AM
You know what's kind of weird though. If you look at the starting LTs in the playoffs last year, most of them were far from elite. The only position that really seems to truly single-handedly make a good team is QB. I don't think there were any star QBs who weren't on playoff teams last year.

Kind of makes you hope Cassel makes huge strides next season and becomes an Aaron Rodgers or Philip Rivers. You can win without a stud QB, but it almost requires you to have both an elite running game and defense (Jets).

Ben Roethlisberger is an elite QB, and the Steelers missed the playoffs. Mostly because his OL was a sieve.

I wouldn't say *most* of the LTs were far from elite. The NFC offensive line selections to the Pro Bowl were all from playoff teams (Minnesota, Dallas, Philadelphia, and New Orleans). Dallas's LT Flozell Adams is a possible HOFer. Arizona's wan't great, but their QB was a southpaw, and their RT (Levi Brown) is a top-5 pick. Chad Clifton for the Packers is certainly no slouch either.

Likewise with the AFC. Marcus McNeil is a top LT. Gaither of the Ravens and Ferguson of the Jets are pretty elite. Matt Light started at LT for all four Pats SB teams. The Bengals LT was awful, but the Bengals were badly slumping towards the end of the season. Charlie Johnson of the Colts isn't very good, but you don't need an elite LT when you have Peyton Manning.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that LT is an awfully, awfully important position. While truly great QBs can sometimes overcome having average ones, Cassel isn't an elite QB. He's just a very good one that needs 3-4 seconds to get the ball out. And he won't get that until we get a good LT.

pbatrucker
03-30-2010, 01:07 PM
Ben Roethlisberger is an elite QB, and the Steelers missed the playoffs. Mostly because his OL was a sieve.

I wouldn't say *most* of the LTs were far from elite. The NFC offensive line selections to the Pro Bowl were all from playoff teams (Minnesota, Dallas, Philadelphia, and New Orleans). Dallas's LT Flozell Adams is a possible HOFer. Arizona's wan't great, but their QB was a southpaw, and their RT (Levi Brown) is a top-5 pick. Chad Clifton for the Packers is certainly no slouch either.

Likewise with the AFC. Marcus McNeil is a top LT. Gaither of the Ravens and Ferguson of the Jets are pretty elite. Matt Light started at LT for all four Pats SB teams. The Bengals LT was awful, but the Bengals were badly slumping towards the end of the season. Charlie Johnson of the Colts isn't very good, but you don't need an elite LT when you have Peyton Manning.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that LT is an awfully, awfully important position. While truly great QBs can sometimes overcome having average ones, Cassel isn't an elite QB. He's just a very good one that needs 3-4 seconds to get the ball out. And he won't get that until we get a good LT.
When did Curt Warner become left handed?:D

bwilliams
03-30-2010, 02:13 PM
When did Curt Warner become left handed?:D

Doh! I meant that the Cardinals spent a very high draft pick on a RT because they thought their QB would be the left-handed Leinert. I was trying to write that the Cardinals spent a pick trying to protect their QB's blind side, even if that wasn't an LT.

honda522
03-30-2010, 07:32 PM
When did Curt Warner become left handed?:D
And when did KURT spell his name Curt?:lol::chiefs:

slimdagreat
03-31-2010, 05:21 PM
Ben Roethlisberger is an elite QB, and the Steelers missed the playoffs. Mostly because his OL was a sieve.

I wouldn't say *most* of the LTs were far from elite. The NFC offensive line selections to the Pro Bowl were all from playoff teams (Minnesota, Dallas, Philadelphia, and New Orleans). Dallas's LT Flozell Adams is a possible HOFer. Arizona's wan't great, but their QB was a southpaw, and their RT (Levi Brown) is a top-5 pick. Chad Clifton for the Packers is certainly no slouch either.

Likewise with the AFC. Marcus McNeil is a top LT. Gaither of the Ravens and Ferguson of the Jets are pretty elite. Matt Light started at LT for all four Pats SB teams. The Bengals LT was awful, but the Bengals were badly slumping towards the end of the season. Charlie Johnson of the Colts isn't very good, but you don't need an elite LT when you have Peyton Manning.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that LT is an awfully, awfully important position. While truly great QBs can sometimes overcome having average ones, Cassel isn't an elite QB. He's just a very good one that needs 3-4 seconds to get the ball out. And he won't get that until we get a good LT.

While LT is an important position, there are some things were noting from your post.

1. Pro Bowl selections aren't indicitive of the fact that a player is elite, only that he's hyped (ie. Michael Vick, Vince Young, Roy Williams all have made multiple pro bowls)

2. Levi Brown is one of the worst starting LTs in the game.

3. Chad Clitfon was horrible last season (ask Aaron Rodgers)

4. Marcus McNeil is very below average

5. The Super Bowl Champion Saints had one of the worst starting LTs in all of football, as did the Colts

6. Andrew Whitworth (the LT of the Bengals) played better last season than all of the guys I just listed.

bwilliams
04-01-2010, 10:21 AM
While LT is an important position, there are some things were noting from your post.

1. Pro Bowl selections aren't indicitive of the fact that a player is elite, only that he's hyped (ie. Michael Vick, Vince Young, Roy Williams all have made multiple pro bowls)

2. Levi Brown is one of the worst starting LTs in the game.

3. Chad Clitfon was horrible last season (ask Aaron Rodgers)

4. Marcus McNeil is very below average

5. The Super Bowl Champion Saints had one of the worst starting LTs in all of football, as did the Colts

6. Andrew Whitworth (the LT of the Bengals) played better last season than all of the guys I just listed.

Vince Young is 22-11 as a starter in the NFL. He deserved both of his Pro Bowl nods.

Roy Williams (I assume you mean the SS) makes run defenses great, and deserved each of his Pro Bowl nods. The Bengals aren't making the playoffs in 2009 without him at SS.

Michael Vick has three pro bowl nods: 2002, 2004, and 2005. In 2002, he led the Falcons to the NFC Championship game. In 2004, the Falcons went 11-5, and Vick rushed 120 times for 902 yards and three scores. That's third all-time by NFL QBs. His 7.5 yards per carry ranks first all-time among NFL players. I'll agree he didn't deserve his 2005 nod.

Considering Levi Brown is a RT, not LT, and only played LT when Gandy got injured (notice the decline of the Cards at that point, BTW), you're correct in that assessment.

Clifton played injured for most if the 2009 season. He's one of the top-5 LTs in the NFL. Rogers knows this, which is why the Packers just gave him a $20M contract.

Top QBs with a lot of offensive weapons and who play on turf (like Brees and Manning) can get away with having average or below average LTs. 2nd tier QBs with few weapons who play on grass (like Cassel) can't.

If you really think guys like McNeil are below average, then there really isn't that much more to talk about.