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honda522
04-02-2010, 11:16 PM
You can call me crazy or what ever...


But I think Berry will fall to the second round.
Here is why.

1. Rams - They need more things than just a QB.

2. Lions - Stronger need than safteies at hand, like OL and DL

3. Bucs - They need a DL or OL.

4. Redskins - Need help at OL so they can have a successful offense.

5. Chiefs - Scott has rules when drafting.

6. Seahawks - Matt Hasselbeck is always on the run. There looking at an OL, and if they were going to draft a saftey, it would be Taylor Mays; due to the connection with Pete Carrol.

7. Browns - They are looking at QB issues first.

8. Raiders - Al Davis doesn't understand the draft. Nuff said.

9. Bills - QB? They have a decent secondary.

10. Jaguars - My guess is they would pick a corner, not a saftey.

11. Donks - MCDainels is an offensive kind of guy. I bet they boot Marshall and draft a WR.

12. Dolphins - Lost Joey Porter, looking for replacement.

13. 49ner's - Probably going to be a front 7 kind of guy.

14. Seahawks - same really

15. NYG - Not really sure what they need. But they might look toward LB or DT.

16. Titans - Vince needs some help at WR, and they could use a DT as well.

Ok, so I could go on with this, but you get my drift. Most other teams need a saftey that bad. We don't even need one THAT bad. Not that we don't need one.

Point is I think Berry is going to fall to the second round.

Connie Jo
04-02-2010, 11:23 PM
Since I don't follow the draft much, nor not knowing 'that' much about it...I have a question. Is it possible a team could draft Berry more for his trading value in the near future, like even before the season starts?

honda522
04-02-2010, 11:25 PM
Since I don't follow the draft much, nor not knowing 'that' much about it...I have a question. Is it possible a team could draft Berry more for his trading value in the near future, like even before the season starts?
What do you mean like...We will trade you Berry for your 1st round and your 3rd round pick?

70 chiefsfan70
04-02-2010, 11:41 PM
You are right, thats a bold prediction!

Berry could brake both legs and one arm and still be drafted in the first.

hometeam
04-02-2010, 11:47 PM
Since I don't follow the draft much, nor not knowing 'that' much about it...I have a question. Is it possible a team could draft Berry more for his trading value in the near future, like even before the season starts?


Is it possible - yes

Will it ever happen? When cows fly. That is a very rare occurence, and in most cases, its becuase the players refuse to play for the team that drafted them.

AussieChiefsFan
04-02-2010, 11:49 PM
You can call me crazy or what ever...


But I think Berry will fall to the second round.
Here is why.

1. Rams - They need more things than just a QB.

2. Lions - Stronger need than safteies at hand, like OL and DL

3. Bucs - They need a DL or OL.

4. Redskins - Need help at OL so they can have a successful offense.

5. Chiefs - Scott has rules when drafting.

6. Seahawks - Matt Hasselbeck is always on the run. There looking at an OL, and if they were going to draft a saftey, it would be Taylor Mays; due to the connection with Pete Carrol.

7. Browns - They are looking at QB issues first.

8. Raiders - Al Davis doesn't understand the draft. Nuff said.

9. Bills - QB? They have a decent secondary.

10. Jaguars - My guess is they would pick a corner, not a saftey.

11. Donks - MCDainels is an offensive kind of guy. I bet they boot Marshall and draft a WR.

12. Dolphins - Lost Joey Porter, looking for replacement.

13. 49ner's - Probably going to be a front 7 kind of guy.

14. Seahawks - same really

15. NYG - Not really sure what they need. But they might look toward LB or DT.

16. Titans - Vince needs some help at WR, and they could use a DT as well.

Ok, so I could go on with this, but you get my drift. Most other teams need a saftey that bad. We don't even need one THAT bad. Not that we don't need one.

Point is I think Berry is going to fall to the second round.What position do they need more desperately then? I think it's a position that's in extreme need of a play maker!

Bike
04-02-2010, 11:59 PM
I agree with Honda somewhat. The safety position (along with ILB, CB, RB, WR) really arn't considered "value" picks if taken in the top 15. Big, strong gap stuffers (and QB's) are. But there are exceptions to everything. From what I've read of Berry, he is an exception. He'll easily go top 10.

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 12:01 AM
I agree with Honda somewhat. The safety position (along with ILB, CB, RB, WR) really arn't considered "value" picks if taken in the top 15. Big, strong gap stuffers (and QB's) are. But there are exceptions to everything. From what I've read of Berry, he is an exception. He'll easily go top 10.
Exactly but what I can't believe is that some people actually DON'T want him drafted at #5 when Safety is the position in most need! It's unbelievable!!!!

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 12:04 AM
Take a look at this Mock Draft he explains briefly that the Chiefs NEED to draft a Safety; Eric Berry!

NFL Videos: Casserly's mock draft (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-draft/09000d5d8174deb0/Casserly-s-mock-draft)

Connie Jo
04-03-2010, 12:06 AM
Is it possible - yes

Will it ever happen? When cows fly. That is a very rare occurence, and in most cases, its becuase the players refuse to play for the team that drafted them.

Well, my thought originated from remembering the year the Chargers drafted Eli Manning, traded him to the Giants in the blink of an eye more or less.

I was just wondering if the same was possible with Berry. I understand fully that Berry is not of the value Eli Manning was of course, still...just sayin. :D

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 12:09 AM
Im just watching Path to the draft on NFL network and Bucky brooks is saying that Eric Berry would be perfect for the Chiefs and that he'd make a real difference to the team!

Bike
04-03-2010, 12:11 AM
Exactly but what I can't believe is that some people actually DON'T want him drafted at #5 when Safety is the position in most need! It's unbelievable!!!!
No doubt we need a safety - probably two of them. But successful teams are built with strong lines. The best safties in the world don't mean squat unless the players in front of them are capable of stuffing the run and getting to the QB. Our D was ranked 30 out of 32 teams last year. Not real impressive. The front 7 MUST be fixed if we are to be competitive in the long term. And don't forget we need at least 2 starting OL - probably 3. Get the lines fixed first. Anything else is considered a luxury pick in our situation (imho).

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 12:15 AM
No doubt we need a safety - probably two of them. But successful teams are built with strong lines. The best safties in the world don't mean squat unless the players in front of them are capable of stuffing the run and getting to the QB. Our D was ranked 30 out of 32 teams last year. Not real impressive. The front 7 MUST be fixed if we are to be competitive in the long term. And don't forget we need at least 2 starting OL - probably 3. Get the lines fixed first. Anything else is considered a luxury pick in our situation (imho).
Berry at #5 and a LB in the 2nd round.

Bike
04-03-2010, 12:18 AM
Berry at #5 and a LB in the 2nd round.
The need is OL 1st round NT 2nd round or vice versa...

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 12:21 AM
The need is OL 1st round NT 2nd round or vice versa...
They've made 2 OL signings, so I think they won't draft a Offensive lineman in the 1st. And they just signed NT Suan Smith so I still say Eric Berry in the first round and maybe a LB in the 2nd.

Bike
04-03-2010, 12:26 AM
They've made 2 OL signings, so I think they won't draft a Offensive lineman in the 1st. And they just signed NT Suan Smith so I still say Eric Berry in the first round and maybe a LB in the 2nd.
Shaun Smith is a backup at best - not the future of the team. Lilja and Casey are mid 30's and a stopgap until our lines are built. Thats it. Just like Curry last year, Berry won't be picked by Pioli. No positional value that high. Sorry aussie...

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 12:27 AM
What I think right now:

1st - Eric Berry

2nd (a/b) - LB

3rd - Maybe a WR like Jordan Shipley

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 12:30 AM
Shaun Smith is a backup at best - not the future of the team. Lilja and Casey are mid 30's and a stopgap until our lines are built. Thats it. Just like Curry last year, Berry won't be picked by Pioli. No positional value that high. Sorry aussie...
I agree with you that Shuan Smith is a backup but I think Lilja is here to stay if he can be productive.

I just think that Eric Berry is such a great Safety and it's a very important position right now in terms of need that it's a no brainer to draft him.

jap1
04-03-2010, 12:35 AM
Exactly but what I can't believe is that some people actually DON'T want him drafted at #5 when Safety is the position in most need! It's unbelievable!!!!

Im my opinion, it would be nice to have an elite safety, but not necessary at the stage of rebuilding that we are. We have too many other holes to fill.

A safety's primary goal is to defend the pass. Our biggest problem was run defense. We sucked in pass defense too, dont get me wrong. But part of our problem was that we were always playing the run, and we left ourselves vulnerable to the pass.

A safety isnt going to help in run defense and isnt going to improve our run defense a whole lot and make our DL/LBs look any better. However, a good DL/LB IS going to make our secondary look better. They will be able to stop the run without blitzing and bringing the safeties any closer to the line of scrimmage. They can put pressure on the opposing QB, only giving him a couple seconds to throw, making him less accurate and making it easier for the CBs and Safeties to get picks.

All that having been said, do I think there is a DL or LB worthy of taking in the top 5? I dont think so. I think we would have to reach on Dan Williams if we wanted to go defense. As a doctor, McClain's history of Crohns makes me really hesitant to consider him.

I think Okung and maybe Bulaga are worthy of the pick, but I am not sure he is going to be a big upgrade over B. Albert.

At this point my number one choice would be if we traded down. After that, I dont have a strong preference.

Bike
04-03-2010, 12:37 AM
I agree with you that Shuan Smith is a backup but I think Lilja is here to stay if he can be productive.

I just think that Eric Berry is such a great Safety and it's a very important position right now in terms of need that it's a no brainer to draft him.
And Curry was a great linebacker at Wake Forest. But Pioli don't think that way. He will build our lines with our top 2-3 picks...

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 12:38 AM
Im my opinion, it would be nice to have an elite safety, but not necessary at the stage of rebuilding that we are. We have too many other holes to fill.

A safety's primary goal is to defend the pass. Our biggest problem was run defense. We sucked in pass defense too, dont get me wrong. But part of our problem was that we were always playing the run, and we left ourselves vulnerable to the pass.

A safety isnt going to help in run defense and isnt going to improve our run defense a whole lot and make our DL/LBs look any better. However, a good DL/LB IS going to make our secondary look better. They will be able to stop the run without blitzing and bringing the safeties any closer to the line of scrimmage. They can put pressure on the opposing QB, only giving him a couple seconds to throw, making him less accurate and making it easier for the CBs and Safeties to get picks.

All that having been said, do I think there is a DL or LB worthy of taking in the top 5? I dont think so. I think we would have to reach on Dan Williams if we wanted to go defense. As a doctor, McClain's history of Crohns makes me really hesitant to consider him.

I think Okung and maybe Bulaga are worthy of the pick, but I am not sure he is going to be a big upgrade over B. Albert.

At this point my number one choice would be if we traded down. After that, I dont have a strong preference.
That's why i'm saying we could draft a LB in the 2nd round and berry in the 1st round. Not all great players are 1st rounders. (that being said Eric Berry IS a great 1st round player :D)

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 12:39 AM
And Curry was a great linebacker at Wake Forest. But Pioli don't think that way. He will build our lines with our top 2-3 picks...
Better not be the D line. Past two seasons it's been Dorsey and Jackson, both DEs

Connie Jo
04-03-2010, 12:40 AM
No doubt we need a safety - probably two of them. But successful teams are built with strong lines. The best safties in the world don't mean squat unless the players in front of them are capable of stuffing the run and getting to the QB. Our D was ranked 30 out of 32 teams last year. Not real impressive. The front 7 MUST be fixed if we are to be competitive in the long term. And don't forget we need at least 2 starting OL - probably 3. Get the lines fixed first. Anything else is considered a luxury pick in our situation (imho).

BUT...Pioli has brought in very good coaches as DC & OC. Pioli may believe we have more talent on the Chiefs DL & OL already than has met the eye, of which will be revealed with the right coaches. His thoughts could be the lack of an OC, the wrong DC...were more the problem than the players with our DL & OL.

Pioli is also aware of many unusual team circumstances last season with no HC, Haley's first year, playbook thrown out, Cassell more or less winging it, LJ's childish episode, Bowe's suspension...much pressure on everyone above the norm on a team.

All negative factor's considered last season...it's impossible to judge the OL & DL by season stats alone.

As well, Pioli may be looking at DL & OL players he feels are hidden talent that he could take in the later rounds, 'IF' & that's a big if of course...Pioli decides to snatch Berry in the first. Are there any safeties of Berry's caliber in the later rounds?...nope!

Let's look at another very real fact...Berry appears to be the popular draft choice by the majority of Chiefs fans, and he's been defined as a player that could bring much excitement to the game. Ticket & licensed merchandise profits are at the worse level in what...2 decades for the Chiefs?

Pioli is a GM...it's his job to make the Hunts money first & foremost, which is done by winning games resulting in fan financial support. Berry would not only fill a position on the Chiefs team we legitimately need to fill, but he also has the potential to be a quick fix with bringing the fans back to Arrowhead in 2010...based upon his being the popular draft choice of fans, and with fans anticipating his potential to bring excitement to the game.

Pioli kills two birds with one stone if drafting Berry...if not more birds, hahahaha.

hometeam
04-03-2010, 12:43 AM
Well, my thought originated from remembering the year the Chargers drafted Eli Manning, traded him to the Giants in the blink of an eye more or less.

I was just wondering if the same was possible with Berry. I understand fully that Berry is not of the value Eli Manning was of course, still...just sayin. :D

Eli refused to play for the Bolts, so they swapped. They definately didnt take him to trade him, but he just refused to sign with them and basically told them that.

If you think way back Bo Jackson did the same thing in tampa, and ended up not playing for anyone that year, the next year, the raiders drafted him in like the 7th round :P

Bike
04-03-2010, 12:46 AM
Better not be the D line. Past two seasons it's been Dorsey and Jackson, both DEs
It BETTER BE our DL. 30th ranked defense last year - 30th! If you want a consistant playoff team, line MUST be fixed. If it takes 3 more drafts to fix it - so be it. Doesn't matter what we drafted last year if the problem still isn't fixed!!!!!Need a NT first and foremost. Then an OLB and then an ILB (or 2). After the front 7 is fixed, Pioli will target safeties and CB's. Just the way it is...

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 12:48 AM
It BETTER BE our DL. 30th ranked defense last year - 30th! If you want a consistant playoff team, line MUST be fixed. If it takes 3 more drafts to fix it - so be it. Doesn't matter what we drafted last year if the problem still isn't fixed!!!!!Need a NT first and foremost. Then an OLB and then an ILB (or 2). After the front 7 is fixed, Pioli will target safeties and CB's. Just the way it is...
If they Do go and draft a NT/DT at #5 then all three starting D linemen will be top 5 picks!

Bike
04-03-2010, 12:52 AM
If they Do go and draft a NT/DT at #5 then all three starting D linemen will be top 5 picks!
Whatever it takes. 30TH RANKED DEFENSE LAST SEASON.

Connie Jo
04-03-2010, 12:53 AM
Eli refused to play for the Bolts, so they swapped. They definately didnt take him to trade him, but he just refused to sign with them and basically told them that.

If you think way back Bo Jackson did the same thing in tampa, and ended up not playing for anyone that year, the next year, the raiders drafted him in like the 7th round :P

Yeah, I remember Eli refused to sign with the Chargers, however...I also remember that the 'Manning Family' as the media reported...made public statements prior to the draft and San Diego drafting Manning. The 'Manning Family' stated that if SD drafted Eli as speculation in the media predicted they would do...that Eli would absolutely not sign with SD.

San Diego knowing this...drafted him anyway...so they had to be anticipating the very real possibility of trading him after picking him in the first round.

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 12:56 AM
Whatever it takes. 30TH RANKED DEFENSE LAST SEASON.
OK, maybe Berry at #5 and a NT in the 2nd. Sorry but I'm sticking with Berry

Bike
04-03-2010, 12:57 AM
OK, maybe Berry at #5 and a NT in the 2nd. Sorry but I'm sticking with Berry
Stick all you want. It won't happen.

bwilliams
04-03-2010, 01:00 AM
Berry will go to the Browns at #7. Clausen (Redskins) and Bradford (Rams) will be gone, so the Browns aren't going QB. They'll pick Berry in the 1st and maybe McCoy in the 2nd.

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 01:01 AM
Stick all you want. It won't happen.
We'll just have to wait and see.......

20 days to go

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 01:02 AM
Berry will go to the Browns at #7. Clausen (Redskins) and Bradford (Rams) will be gone, so the Browns aren't going QB. They'll pick Berry in the 1st and maybe McCoy in the 2nd.
As you know I hope he goes at #5

Bike
04-03-2010, 01:06 AM
Berry will go to the Browns at #7. Clausen (Redskins) and Bradford (Rams) will be gone, so the Browns aren't going QB. They'll pick Berry in the 1st and maybe McCoy in the 2nd.
If Clausen, Bradford, Gerald McCoy, and Suh are first four taken, that will mean Okung for us. That would be a good thing.

Connie Jo
04-03-2010, 01:06 AM
Aussie ---> :efpge: <---Bike


Connie Jo ---> :postwhore5fw:

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 01:07 AM
Aussie ---> :efpge: <---Bike


Connie Jo ---> :postwhore5fw:
REP!!
REP!!
REP!!
REP!!
REP!!
REP!!
REP!!
REP!!
REP!!
REP!!
REP!!
:lol:

Connie Jo
04-03-2010, 01:10 AM
I thought you might like my last post Aussie! hahaha

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 01:11 AM
I thought you might like my last post Aussie! hahaha
Very Funny post! Perfect smiley for the situation! :bananen_smilies046:

yashi
04-03-2010, 01:12 AM
Berry falling to the 2nd round means no GM drafts with the best player available strategy, which simply isn't true.

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 01:14 AM
Berry falling to the 2nd round means no GM drafts with the best player available strategy, which simply isn't true.
:bananen_smilies046: :bananen_smilies046: :bananen_smilies046:

Ryfo18
04-03-2010, 01:28 AM
I would say there's a very decent chance he falls out of the top 10, which is where he would have to get drafted to not be the highest paid safety.

Vandelay
04-03-2010, 02:36 AM
I have no idea who the Chiefs first round pick will be, but I'm about 97.62% sure it won't be Berry.
Just don't see Pioli using a #5 pick on a safety.

chief31
04-03-2010, 03:00 AM
Exactly but what I can't believe is that some people actually DON'T want him drafted at #5 when Safety is the position in most need! It's unbelievable!!!!

Well, alot of people are very high on Jared Page. Personally, I am not sure I have ever seen a Safety play worse than him.

But Mike Brown was a stud with Chicago, and a major playmaker.

But, without a solid defensive front, Mike brown showed us what happens to a great playmaking Safety.

I sincerely doubt that The Chiefs believe that their defensive front is strong enough to help a SS not look like trash right now.

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 03:08 AM
I have no idea who the Chiefs first round pick will be, but I'm about 97.62% sure it won't be Berry.
Just don't see Pioli using a #5 pick on a safety.
That's very specific

toyotapower
04-03-2010, 10:32 AM
i will be disappointed if we draft an offensive lineman with the 5th overall pick. we have a good enough line for the time being. lets pick up OL in the later rounds and develop them under our veterans. jamaal charles makes all of their jobs easier, including matt cassel's.

we need the young talent on defense NOW. i like berry, and if it were my choice thats who it would be. but i won't be upset if we go DT or LB. who cares what # pick we have, pick up the player who makes the biggest impact. who cares if its a reach if it works?

70 chiefsfan70
04-03-2010, 10:35 AM
It BETTER BE our DL. 30th ranked defense last year - 30th! If you want a consistant playoff team, line MUST be fixed. If it takes 3 more drafts to fix it - so be it. Doesn't matter what we drafted last year if the problem still isn't fixed!!!!!Need a NT first and foremost. Then an OLB and then an ILB (or 2). After the front 7 is fixed, Pioli will target safeties and CB's. Just the way it is...


You can built up our DL all you want but that won't keep us out of the bottom 6 or 8 without some playmakers down the field, just like you can built up the OL and without a good WR you might as well stayed home on the pottie......

It takes all 11 men on the field to step up and become playmakers to get to the super bowl.

Last year IMO our weakest spot was safety, I held my breath and cringed every time opponents went deep, and usually those plays gave all mominun to those teams......

Imagine teams fearing to go deep, knowing there ball could get intercepted on every throw.

btw did u ever wonder how we lost those games we were leading in..... teams got behind and had to play catchup ,and figured out it was sooooo easy.

:chiefs:

toyotapower
04-03-2010, 10:41 AM
Imagine teams fearing to go deep, knowing there ball could get intercepted on every throw.

btw did u ever wonder how we lost those games we were leading in..... teams got behind and had to play catchup ,and figured out it was sooooo easy.

:chiefs:

the polamalu effect. they went from super bowl champs to out of the playoffs in one year because he was injured. teams finally threw deep on them because they weren't worried about him coming out of no where and picking them off. and he has magnificent hair.

Vandelay
04-03-2010, 11:38 AM
the polamalu effect. they went from super bowl champs to out of the playoffs in one year because he was injured. teams finally threw deep on them because they weren't worried about him coming out of no where and picking them off. and he has magnificent hair.
He uses Head and shoulders, it does seven great things for his hair and scalp. :D

jtandcrew
04-03-2010, 12:13 PM
If the Chiefs dont take Berry at #5 there is no way he will drop to the 2nd round! From what I have read about him is that he could possibly switch to CB. If that is true any team looking for a CB would take him if he is the playmaker everyone says he is.

bwilliams
04-03-2010, 02:04 PM
just like you can built up the OL and without a good WR you might as well stayed home on the pottie......

I take it you don't remember the Chiefs from 2002-2007. We had no deep threat at all. Great OLs, and Eddie Kennison was our best WR.


Imagine teams fearing to go deep, knowing there ball could get intercepted on every throw.

Teams aren't going to throw long if they can rush for 4.5 YPC against our DL.


btw did u ever wonder how we lost those games we were leading in..... teams got behind and had to play catchup ,and figured out it was sooooo easy.

It's because our defense got tired from being on the field most of the game and getting gouged on the ground. Not because of our play strong frickin' safety.

whatwasthat?
04-03-2010, 02:19 PM
interesting...anyone else notice bulaga isnt even in casserlys mock?

Ryfo18
04-03-2010, 02:29 PM
You can built up our DL all you want but that won't keep us out of the bottom 6 or 8 without some playmakers down the field, just like you can built up the OL and without a good WR you might as well stayed home on the pottie......

It takes all 11 men on the field to step up and become playmakers to get to the super bowl.

Last year IMO our weakest spot was safety, I held my breath and cringed every time opponents went deep, and usually those plays gave all mominun to those teams......

Imagine teams fearing to go deep, knowing there ball could get intercepted on every throw.

btw did u ever wonder how we lost those games we were leading in..... teams got behind and had to play catchup ,and figured out it was sooooo easy.

:chiefs:

You do realize we had the second fewest sacks in the league last year right? We also gave up the 2nd most rushing yards. Safety is not even close to our biggest problem.

slimdagreat
04-03-2010, 04:26 PM
You can call me crazy or what ever...


But I think Berry will fall to the second round.
Here is why.

1. Rams - They need more things than just a QB.

2. Lions - Stronger need than safteies at hand, like OL and DL

3. Bucs - They need a DL or OL.

4. Redskins - Need help at OL so they can have a successful offense.

5. Chiefs - Scott has rules when drafting.

6. Seahawks - Matt Hasselbeck is always on the run. There looking at an OL, and if they were going to draft a saftey, it would be Taylor Mays; due to the connection with Pete Carrol.

7. Browns - They are looking at QB issues first.

8. Raiders - Al Davis doesn't understand the draft. Nuff said.

9. Bills - QB? They have a decent secondary.

10. Jaguars - My guess is they would pick a corner, not a saftey.

11. Donks - MCDainels is an offensive kind of guy. I bet they boot Marshall and draft a WR.

12. Dolphins - Lost Joey Porter, looking for replacement.

13. 49ner's - Probably going to be a front 7 kind of guy.

14. Seahawks - same really

15. NYG - Not really sure what they need. But they might look toward LB or DT.

16. Titans - Vince needs some help at WR, and they could use a DT as well.

Ok, so I could go on with this, but you get my drift. Most other teams need a saftey that bad. We don't even need one THAT bad. Not that we don't need one.

Point is I think Berry is going to fall to the second round.


Cleveland would take Berry in a heartbeat if he fell to them, as would Seattle if he fell to them at their 2nd pick, and San Fransisco would love to have him.

Aside from that, Arizona lost their starting safety, and Indy has to be ready to look to the future since Bob Sanders can't stay healthy.

In short, there's no way Berry makes it past Cleveland.

chief31
04-03-2010, 04:27 PM
You can built up our DL all you want but that won't keep us out of the bottom 6 or 8 without some playmakers down the field,

Right. It's all about the guy who really isn't involved in half of the plays on defense.


just like you can built up the OL and without a good WR you might as well stayed home on the pottie......

:lol:


It takes all 11 men on the field to step up and become playmakers to get to the super bowl.

No. Having 11 "playmakers" on defense would produce the worst defense around.

"Playmakers" can't make plays when they are blocked, or if a QB is not being pressured.


Last year IMO our weakest spot was safety, I held my breath and cringed every time opponents went deep, and usually those plays gave all mominun to those teams......

Imagine teams fearing to go deep, knowing there ball could get intercepted on every throw.

btw did u ever wonder how we lost those games we were leading in..... teams got behind and had to play catchup ,and figured out it was sooooo easy.

:chiefs:

Like I've said over and over, Mike Brown was a stud. We turned him into a dud.

I'd rather not do that to our top pick this year.

Fill-in the front part of the defense, so the job of the DBs is at least feasible.

bwilliams
04-03-2010, 04:29 PM
You do realize we had the second fewest sacks in the league last year right? We also gave up the 2nd most rushing yards. Safety is not even close to our biggest problem.

No one who supports picking Berry realizes this. I have no idea what they think a free safety is, but they seem to think free safeties stop the run and sack the QB, while at the same time prevent the long ball and make interceptions.

bwilliams
04-03-2010, 04:30 PM
Cleveland would take Berry in a heartbeat if he fell to them, as would Seattle if he fell to them at their 2nd pick, and San Fransisco would love to have him.

Aside from that, Arizona lost their starting safety, and Indy has to be ready to look to the future since Bob Sanders can't stay healthy.

In short, there's no way Berry makes it past Cleveland.

I thought so too, but don't be too sure about Cleveland. With Shaun Rogers's legal troubles, picking Dan Williams isn't that unlikely.

Ryfo18
04-03-2010, 05:10 PM
No one who supports picking Berry realizes this. I have no idea what they think a free safety is, but they seem to think free safeties stop the run and sack the QB, while at the same time prevent the long ball and make interceptions.

You mean they don't? :lol:

fairladyZ
04-03-2010, 05:21 PM
lol
This draft is SOOOO deep with DL, LB's and OL.
Berry has to be the pick. Yes i agree with you guys that we need to build the front 7 but why pass on a guy like berry who is the most pro ready and probably the best player in the draft? to reach for a OL, LB, or NT, that we can get just as good a quality with our 2 pics in round 2.

You take the sure fire player (berry in my mind) and build around him. Just like you do on offense you take a franchise QB (cassel) and you build around him.

Berry at 1
Then if you guys want NT, we could go possibly Cody or cam thomas. at 2a possibly even 2b. (also keep in mind the shaun rogers issue and romeo crennel connection now)
oh but you guys want a LB? oh ok then we can go
Washington from TCU, Hughes from TCU, Graham from michigan might still be there. Griffin from USC might still be there, Kindle most likely not. Witherspoon most likely not. the kid from Penn state will be there in 2nd round.
You guys want OL? oh there is an abundance of good tackles. we could get in the 2nd round.
1 of which is the kid i hope the chiefs get. Washington, probably 1 of the best tackles in the draft but slide down cause of a mistake he made when 16 and has to register as a sex offender.

Take the best player, and build around him when you have a Defensive draft like this that coaches are saying they have never seen this amount of skill in a draft before.

fairladyZ
04-03-2010, 05:52 PM
Like I've said over and over, Mike Brown was a stud. We turned him into a dud.



Really now? I'm 100% certain he did that to himself.

Go back and look thru our games, how many we lost by a TD or less. Then those games you re-watch and watch the tackle in open field that mike brown missed for a TD. Or the TWO he missed just in the cowboys game on Miles Austin.

Here is a nice read on MR Stud that we turned into a Dud.
Chiefs S Mike Brown Does Not Look Like the Bears S Mike Brown - Mike Brown - Zimbio (http://www.zimbio.com/Mike+Brown/articles/FI0R4_ZQ776/Chiefs+Mike+Brown+Not+Look+Like+Bears+Mike)

yashi
04-03-2010, 06:01 PM
There's a reason Mike Brown went unsigned for much of free agency, until we finally signed him to a cheap 1 year deal. Just like Mike Goff and Bobby Engram, he's just not the same player he was 2 years ago. The Bears safeties aren't good. They wouldn't have cut Brown if he was still a stud.

Brown was one of the worst starting safeties in the league last season. I literally sat there one game watching him backpeddle for 20 yards before finally trying to make a tackle on a guy in the open field right in front of him. Good players play well no matter what. Troy Polamalu would not be a scrub on the Chiefs.

Connie Jo
04-04-2010, 01:18 AM
No one who supports picking Berry realizes this. I have no idea what they think a free safety is, but they seem to think free safeties stop the run and sack the QB, while at the same time prevent the long ball and make interceptions.

Wrong! I support drafting Berry, and I'm fully aware of what a safety is. I believe my reasons are justified and logical for why I support drafting Berry.

As well...I don't agree that our DL & OL are as bad as what others seem to feel. Stats don't always tell the 'rest of the story'. Yes, our OL & DL need improvement, but not to the extreme many seem to hold the opinion of.

All factor's considered of which I form my opinion from...Berry is the wisest first round pick for improving the Chiefs team & filling a position that desperately needs filled. Including the fact that a Safeties defensive role & importance on the field has been expanding in recent years, the Chiefs will be no exception with Pioli as GM.

Please note the article below, of which I read a few weeks ago & saved. I've highlighted in RED...a very important paragraph pertaining to drafting safeties in the first round. As well, there are many comments within the article related to the expanding defensive role & importance of a safety.

INDIANAPOLIS -- Over time, cornerbacks such as Rod Woodson (http://www.nfl.com/players/rodwoodson/profile?id=WOO699408) and Ronnie Lott (http://www.nfl.com/players/ronnielott/profile?id=LOT519110) were moved to safety because they had lost a step. They still had coverage skills, and their ability to set defenses from a wider scope, match up with slot receivers and tight ends, and fearlessly take on running backs near the line of scrimmage made them valuable. And they prospered.

Now teams aren't waiting for cornerbacks to grow older to consider making the switch, as the Arizona Cardinals (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/teams/arizonacardinals/profile?team=ARI) showed last season by moving fourth-year pro Antrel Rolle (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/antrelrolle/profile?id=ROL403288) to free safety, where he transitioned, with success, alongside two-time Pro Bowl strong safety Adrian Wilson.

The trend is to find cover safeties who not only protect against the deep ball and disrupt crossing routes but also deliver a blow that makes running backs and receivers tread lightly at the second and third levels of the defense.

"The safety position is becoming more and more of a corner position," New England Patriots (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/teams/newenglandpatriots/profile?team=NE) coach Bill Belichick said. "There were times when some of the safeties, particularly the strong safeties, fit more like linebackers than they did as defensive backs. The demands of that position have changed."

General managers, scouts and coaches have combed the college ranks for versatile defensive backs whose toughness and athleticism can meet the criteria for the evolving dynamics of secondary play. Maybe more than any other position, defensive backs were heavily scrutinized during their workouts on the final day of the NFL Scouting Combine.

Footwork, the ability to change directions and ball-tracking skills were crucial to show in workouts. Some of those traits might not show up on film because certain players, such as Ohio State cornerback Malcolm Jenkins (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/malcolm-jenkins?id=79848), weren't tested by opponents very often.
Jenkins, a rugged, do-it-all type, might have more teams looking at him as a safety instead of a cornerback after his 4.53-second 40-yard dash Tuesday at the combine didn't even rate in the top 10 among all defensive backs (http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers). Jenkins' speed was a question that teams wanted answered, and by running slower than desired, he could have hurt his draft status and slipped out of the upper echelon of defensive prospects.

Still, safeties need to be fast, too.
Oregon's Patrick Chung (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/patrick-chung?id=71251) and Western Michigan's Louis Delmas (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/louis-delmas?id=71279), two of the more highly rated safety prospects, have played different positions in the secondary, which makes them all the more appealing to NFL teams, especially because they're also bell ringers.
"I was a rover, so it was pretty much corner, strong safety, free, linebacker all mixed into one," Chung said about how he was used in college. "I'm not limited at all."

Safeties used to be pigeon-holed and viewed, along with defensive tackles, as the least-valued position on defense.
Strong safeties were big hitters who weighed 220-plus pounds and served as fourth or fifth linebackers. Free safeties were, and pretty much still are, cerebral signal-callers who played center field in pass coverage. But the game-altering production of Troy Polamalu (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/troypolamalu/profile?id=POL041872), Ed Reed (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/edreed/profile?id=REE192451), Bob Sanders and Wilson has changed the thinking about safeties.

Four of the top five interception leaders in 2008 were safeties. Reed led the NFL with nine picks, and Green Bay's Nick Collins (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/nickcollins/profile?id=COL653692), Tennessee's Michael Griffin (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/michaelgriffin/profile?id=GRI232017) and Polamalu each had seven. Green Bay's Charles Woodson (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/charleswoodson/profile?id=WOO661523), the lone cornerback in the top five, also had seven.

Safeties typically weren't drafted in the first round, but the tide is turning. In the past three drafts, eight safeties have been first-round selections -- four in 2007 (LaRon Landry (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/laronlandry/profile?id=LAN165690), Michael Griffin, Reggie Nelson and Brandon Meriweather (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/brandonmeriweather/profile?id=MER280467)). Three of those eight were top-eight picks (Landry, Michael Huff (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/michaelhuff/profile?id=HUF222475) and Donte Whitner (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/dontewhitner/profile?id=WHI720119)).

While the highest-rated safety prospects in this draft are considered late first-rounders or early second-rounders, Delmas, Chung, Alabama's Rashad Johnson (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/rashad-johnson?id=71353) and Missouri's William Moore (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/william-moore?id=71405) all could emerge as immediate impact players.

"Ideally, we'd like to get to a situation where you have interchangeable safeties," said Atlanta Falcons (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/teams/atlantafalcons/profile?team=ATL) general manager Thomas Dimitroff, whose expertise as a college scout was evaluating defensive backs. "Maybe one guy is the strong safety, but you can flip it. Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed, those guys are great football players who set the benchmark. It's not easy to find those guys year in and year out, but those are the type of guys that we are ultimately looking for at the safety position."

One of the main reasons that teams are trying to find dual-role safeties is so they can better disguise defenses. Teams that routinely bring the same safety toward the line of scrimmage when putting eight defenders "in the box" tip off offenses and allow audibles to be called and the scheme to be exploited. If the same safety comes on blitzes most of the time, the same can happen.

Teams also know which safety is weaker in coverage and try to match him up with a more athletic tight end, a shifty running back or a slot receiver.

Otto Greule Jr. / Getty ImagesThe Redskins used the sixth overall pick in the 2007 draft on safety LaRon Landry.Safeties drafted in first round since 2006PlayerYear (Pick)TeamKenny Phillips (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/kennyphillips/profile?id=PHI403361)2008 (31st)GiantsLaRon Landry2007 (6th)RedskinsMichael Griffin2007 (19th)TitansReggie Nelson (http://www.nfl.com/players/reggienelson/profile?id=NEL617002)2007 (21st)JaguarsBrandon Meriweather2007 (24th)PatriotsMichael Huff2006 (7th)RaidersDonte Whitner2006 (8th)BillsJason Allen (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/jasonallen/profile?id=ALL464310)2006 (16th)Dolphins

Free safeties used to be viewed as some of the lightest hitters in the secondary, and offenses tried to put them in situations to make tackles on cutback runs. That perception has changed as free safeties such as Indianapolis' Antoine Bethea (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/antoinebethea/profile?id=BET074391), Pittsburgh's Ryan Clark (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/ryanclark/profile?id=CLA544413) and Rolle laid the wood just as violently and frequently as their strong-safety counterparts.

More offenses also are using three- and four-receiver sets on first and second downs, forcing defenses to play nickel packages or leave themselves exposed to potential mismatches with strong safeties and/or outside linebackers.

If a defense can mask schemes, blitzes and coverages by moving around one safety or the other or by playing two-deep coverage, pre-snap reads are tougher for quarterbacks to make. Having safeties with similar skills makes executing the defense that much easier.
"There is a lot of variety in your coverages," Dimitroff said to that point. "I think it's something that usually will keep the offenses guessing. I'm a lot more apt to evaluate a player with the ability to cover as well as have the ability to come up and stick his nose in there and be an aggressive run-stopper guy."

Another shift regarding hybrid-type safeties is the body types of this season's prospects. Most have cornerback measurables, between 5-11 and 6-1, and only a handful weigh above 220. Moore, a highly regarded prospect, weighs 221, and at the Senior Bowl, there was some thought that his eventual position could be outside linebacker.

There's always some concern that some of the smaller, punishing safeties could have durability issues, as Sanders does, but that's where evaluators must determine if a player can add weight through training or has the body type to sustain that type of play. "I think some of those hybrid guys have played corner and safety," Belichick said. "What his best fit is for a team, where he's most valuable, is certainly an interesting discussion for all teams."

bwilliams
04-04-2010, 01:41 AM
Connie, I understand (really) why people want Berry. But (IMO) the Chiefs biggest problems right now are (1) stopping the run; and (2) rushing the passer. I don't think any FS, no matter how good, can help with those.

The article you cited to is a good one, but it helps my point. Free safeties are becoming more like corners, and their draft stock is rising. And if our front seven was anything resembling decent, I'd want Berry to make 8 INTs a year while shutting down the other team's best receiver.

But no FS (or CB, for that matter) helps a team stop the run (except to prevent the long TD) or rush the passer. And it doesn't matter what our team does if it doesn't fix those two issues. We can't win games until we do.

AussieChiefsFan
04-04-2010, 01:58 AM
Connie, I understand (really) why people want Berry. But (IMO) the Chiefs biggest problems right now are (1) stopping the run; and (2) rushing the passer. I don't think any FS, no matter how good, can help with those.

The article you cited to is a good one, but it helps my point. Free safeties are becoming more like corners, and their draft stock is rising. And if our front seven was anything resembling decent, I'd want Berry to make 8 INTs a year while shutting down the other team's best receiver.

But no FS (or CB, for that matter) helps a team stop the run (except to prevent the long TD) or rush the passer. And it doesn't matter what our team does if it doesn't fix those two issues. We can't win games until we do.
I think it can. If you have abreat player most players around him will usually be influenced in a good way. (Dont get me wrong, they still need a LB and NT/DT) but I think Bery in the 1st is the best choice.

Connie Jo
04-04-2010, 02:01 AM
Connie, I understand (really) why people want Berry. But (IMO) the Chiefs biggest problems right now are (1) stopping the run; and (2) rushing the passer. I don't think any FS, no matter how good, can help with those.

The article you cited to is a good one, but it helps my point. Free safeties are becoming more like corners, and their draft stock is rising. And if our front seven was anything resembling decent, I'd want Berry to make 8 INTs a year while shutting down the other team's best receiver.

But no FS (or CB, for that matter) helps a team stop the run (except to prevent the long TD) or rush the passer. And it doesn't matter what our team does if it doesn't fix those two issues. We can't win games until we do.

Where we likely disagree is that I don't believe we will have the same issues in 2010 at stopping the run or sacking the QB as we did last season. I believe there were many contributing factors beyond simply lack of talent filling the positions, including DC, of which has now been resolved with the hiring of Crennel.

I believe the talent is already there, for the most part...just needed the right coach to develop & reveal it. As well, a bit more fine tuning with filling a hole here & there, but not significant holes of which justify passing up on Berry in the first, assuming he'll be there when we pick.

I don't believe the Chiefs will be able to draft anyone in the first round of which will make that notable a difference in stopping the run or sacking the QB...by comparison to the difference Berry can make on the defense filling a much needed role at safety...FS or SS.

:chiefs:

toyotapower
04-04-2010, 12:39 PM
a ball hawk like berry WILL help with sack numbers. when the quarterback doesn't have an open receiver he holds on to the ball longer. the longer he holds on to the ball, the more he gets sacked.

honda522
04-04-2010, 12:56 PM
Connie, I understand (really) why people want Berry. But (IMO) the Chiefs biggest problems right now are (1) stopping the run; and (2) rushing the passer. I don't think any FS, no matter how good, can help with those.

The article you cited to is a good one, but it helps my point. Free safeties are becoming more like corners, and their draft stock is rising. And if our front seven was anything resembling decent, I'd want Berry to make 8 INTs a year while shutting down the other team's best receiver.

But no FS (or CB, for that matter) helps a team stop the run (except to prevent the long TD) or rush the passer. And it doesn't matter what our team does if it doesn't fix those two issues. We can't win games until we do.
Why do you imply that FS don't support the run? Look at Ed Reed. He supports the run. Have you not watched Berry at all? He supports the run. He is a hard, sure handed hitter.

FS make plays all the time, if they are any good. Even if he isn't the greatest in the world, he is a soild tackler, which is one thing this defense needs.

Bike
04-04-2010, 04:53 PM
It's s moot point anyway. Pioli has already said that he doesn't believe in taking safeties that high...

jacko58
04-05-2010, 06:55 PM
i can say i dont like somethin and still take ghat thing pats werent known for telling the truth big guy plus fs fs fs how bout berry plays ss and page fs

Ryfo18
04-06-2010, 01:17 AM
i can say i dont like somethin and still take ghat thing pats werent known for telling the truth big guy plus fs fs fs how bout berry plays ss and page fs

Right on...

texaschief
04-06-2010, 01:50 AM
Honda, I love you man, but your "bold prediction" is ridiculous.

If Berry falls out of the top 7 or so and makes it to the 2nd round, there are going to be 25 GMs who will have a TON of explaining to do. There is NO argument to be made for a GM who passes on Berry after pick #10. PERIOD.

Ryfo18
04-06-2010, 01:52 AM
Honda, I love you man, but your "bold prediction" is ridiculous.

If Berry falls out of the top 7 or so and makes it to the 2nd round, there are going to be 25 GMs who will have a TON of explaining to do. There is NO argument to be made for a GM who passes on Berry after pick #10. PERIOD.

I could see him going out of the top 10 only b/c that's where he would have to be not to be the highest paid safety. Slim chances though.

honda522
04-06-2010, 01:21 PM
Honda, I love you man, but your "bold prediction" is ridiculous.

If Berry falls out of the top 7 or so and makes it to the 2nd round, there are going to be 25 GMs who will have a TON of explaining to do. There is NO argument to be made for a GM who passes on Berry after pick #10. PERIOD.
Or is it? Mays, and Earl Thomas preformed better than Berry, plus I understand Berry has an injury.

I have seen guys drop in stock because of injury.

texaschief
04-06-2010, 03:30 PM
Or is it? Mays, and Earl Thomas preformed better than Berry, plus I understand Berry has an injury.

I have seen guys drop in stock because of injury.

I hadn't heard he lost a leg AND an arm... cuz that's pretty much what it's gonna take for him to fall to the 2nd. :lol:

Drunker Hillbilly
04-06-2010, 04:51 PM
Or is it? Mays, and Earl Thomas preformed better than Berry, plus I understand Berry has an injury.

I have seen guys drop in stock because of injury.
Mays as in Taylor Mays? I hope your not serious if this is the case.

KristofLaw
04-06-2010, 08:42 PM
I predict he'll go 1st :D. Just kidding :D.

honda522
04-06-2010, 08:45 PM
Mays as in Taylor Mays? I hope your not serious if this is the case.
I only threw in his name because he had preformed a little better than Berry.

texaschief
04-06-2010, 09:28 PM
I only threw in his name because he had preformed a little better than Berry.

Performed where better? Definitely not during the season. His pro day?

bwilliams
04-06-2010, 09:50 PM
Berry will go to the Browns at #7. Clausen (Redskins) and Bradford (Rams) will be gone, so the Browns aren't going QB. They'll pick Berry in the 1st and maybe McCoy in the 2nd.

I want to revise this pick. Given the fact that Clausen isn't going to the Skins, he's probably going 7th to the Browns. Buffalo and Oakland will got OL (or maybe NT for Buffalo). The Jags will go CB (Haden) or DE, not safety. Denver will go McClain or Dan Williams. I'd bet anything the Dolphins pick is Jason Pierre-Paul .

Which means Berry could reasonably drop to San Fran at 13, which is where I now predict he gets picked.

If San Fran doesn't pick Berry (they could go Dez Bryant or Devin McCourty instead), he could free fall. The Giants signed a bunch of safeties this offseason. The Seahawks are going OL and DL (and I think Carroll goes Mays over Berry). The Titans don't need a safety (and Fisher won't draft one that high).

The Steelers at 18 are almost certainly picking the best OL after getting Roethlisberger killed in 2009. The Falcons biggest need is their pass rush. The Texans will probably get CJ Spiller at 20 to fix their running game. Jermaine Gresham (TE) to the Bengals at 21 makes all sorts of sense.

If San Fran passes on Berry, I think he goes to the Pats at 22.

honda522
04-06-2010, 10:48 PM
Performed where better? Definitely not during the season. His pro day?
Yes, I said this a few post back.