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bwilliams
04-03-2010, 06:53 PM
The Chiefs will be looking this draft to upgrade a defense that ranked 31st against the run and was 31st in sacks.

Eric Berry is a free safety. He will not be able to fix either of those two problems. Until the Chiefs fix those two problems, they will continue to win 4 games a season. Trying to fill critical positions (i.e. that stop the run and rush the passer) with low draft picks is how Herm Edwards destroyed the team.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

northwest
04-03-2010, 07:36 PM
I disagree that Eric Berry wouldn't help the run defense. When one position improves, everyone improves.

matthewschiefs
04-03-2010, 07:40 PM
I disagree that Eric Berry wouldn't help the run defense. When one position improves, everyone improves.

While I do think that Berry would help the Run Defense He would not help as much as getting help on the D line and would not be a big upgrade in pass rush. I will say yet again that it won't matter if we draft Berry if we do not get a pass rush. If a QB has all day to throw it would not matter whos back there someone will get open. Safety is not the biggest need I don't think it should be picked first.

jacko58
04-03-2010, 07:42 PM
um what do you think a free safety or any safety does?? a good safety can play the run the pass knock you out make a crucial interception or brake up a pass or stripe a guy.. safetys when there great help every position...(but jacko we need a pass rush) yes we do im not argueing with that love it or not were set at d end. our pass rush will consist of tamba and vrabel id like to see us draft a middle linebacker and a outside rush to learn behind vrabel but will do that late in the draft. besides safety the only other position wed take in the first on defense would be nose tackle. that would make all three of our d lineman first round picks plus remember tamba was drafted as well as a d end in the first . id like to see us change up what positions we draft first overall if we go offense of course we cango o line or wide out or tight end but if you think a safety wouldnt make us a over all better defense then your a idiot

bwilliams
04-03-2010, 07:54 PM
um what do you think a free safety or any safety does?? a good safety can play the run the pass knock you out make a crucial interception or brake up a pass or stripe a guy..

OK, I can't figure out what you're trying to say. Those words don't work in that order. A free safety plays 15-20 yards off the line of scrimmage and is the last line of defense. They almost never play the run. You're confusing strong and free safeties.


safetys when there great help every position...(but jacko we need a pass rush) yes we do im not argueing with that love it or not were set at d end. our pass rush will consist of tamba and vrabel id like to see us draft a middle linebacker and a outside rush to learn behind vrabel but will do that late in the draft. besides safety the only other position wed take in the first on defense would be nose tackle. that would make all three of our d lineman first round picks plus remember tamba was drafted as well as a d end in the first . id like to see us change up what positions we draft first overall if we go offense of course we cango o line or wide out or tight end but if you think a safety wouldnt make us a over all better defense then your a idiot

Now, don't start throwing names like "idiot" around. I haven't said that people who want a guy like a Berry obviously have no clue what they're talking about.

A free safety will not "make us a over all better defense." It will not help our pass rush or run defense. If you don't understand that, then you need to do so.

bwilliams
04-03-2010, 07:56 PM
I disagree that Eric Berry wouldn't help the run defense. When one position improves, everyone improves.

What makes you think that? If we upgraded our long snapper, does it make our passing game better?

A free safety is a last-line-of-defense tackler and ball hawk. How does he help the run defense or pass rush?

chief31
04-03-2010, 08:11 PM
A FS does something relevant on a very low percentage of the plays run against you.

Running plays, they wait back and, unless the HB gets past the front, they have no effect.

Passing plays, again, they wait back and try to be in position to defend the deep pass, while staying close enough defending a medium route as well.

If all goes well, then the FS doesn't get to do anything. If the FS is involved in alot of plays, then your defense sucks.

I don't want a defense that sucks. And I don't want to use this high draft pick on a part-time contributor.

AussieChiefsFan
04-03-2010, 08:44 PM
I disagree that Eric Berry wouldn't help the run defense. When one position improves, everyone improves.
:bananen_smilies046:

yashi
04-03-2010, 09:56 PM
Berry has actually played just as much strong safety as free safety at Tennessee, and also played some nickel. He can be moved all over the place, depending on the situation. He's a sure tackler and very smart, which can be very helpful against the run. Obviously he's most known for his playmaking and elite range in pass coverage, but his run help shouldn't be underlooked. How many big runs did we give up last season because our safeties were out of place and unable to make a play?

bwilliams
04-03-2010, 10:14 PM
Berry has actually played just as much strong safety as free safety at Tennessee, and also played some nickel. He can be moved all over the place, depending on the situation. He's a sure tackler and very smart, which can be very helpful against the run. Obviously he's most known for his playmaking and elite range in pass coverage, but his run help shouldn't be underlooked. How many big runs did we give up last season because our safeties were out of place and unable to make a play?

None. We gave up big runs because our NTs and ILBs were s***. Not because of free safety play. A free safety can stop an eight yard run from becoming a twenty yard run. But he can't stop that first big eight yard run.

And while Berry (like a lot of players) played multiple positions in college, he'll be a FS, not SS or CB, in the pros. He's being drafted to be the next Ed Reed/Brian Dawkins, not the next Polamalu/Sanders.

Bike
04-03-2010, 10:15 PM
Berry has actually played just as much strong safety as free safety at Tennessee, and also played some nickel. He can be moved all over the place, depending on the situation. He's a sure tackler and very smart, which can be very helpful against the run. Obviously he's most known for his playmaking and elite range in pass coverage, but his run help shouldn't be underlooked. How many big runs did we give up last season because our safeties were out of place and unable to make a play?
Very true we could use a couple safeties. I'd prefer a couple future pro-bowlers. We could also use 2-3 offensive linemen, a nt, an olb, a couple ilb's, maybe a corner and a wr. I think we all agree (kinda) what we need. Its the order that we get 'em is where the controversy lies. I say go inside out. I think Pioli and co. will do just that.

bwilliams
04-03-2010, 10:25 PM
I think the biggest confusion might be that people are confusing free safeties and strong safeties. The difference is as big as the difference between ILBs and OLBs.

In a 3-4, a SS is almost a 5th linebacker. He hits hard, plays the run, and covers intermediate routes.

In a 3-4, a FS assists the cornerback in coverage, is the last-line of defense in running/short-passing plays, and ballhawks the deep pass.

Berry will be a FS, not a SS. His big advantages are his speed, his vision, and his instincts. His athleticism and coverage skills would be mostly underutilized as a SS. If anyone thinks he can be our Troy Polamalu, they are misunderstanding what his role would be on the football field.

KottkeKU
04-03-2010, 10:30 PM
You can make a strong argument against Berry...I would use him as a SS personally, i think he has the ability to tackle and play that position...but he can play FS too with his ball skills and athleticism, thats why he is valuable..

But Im pretty sure Bob Sanders for IND plays Free Safety... he is extremely important to their run defense. w/o him they are average at best... But you can't compare IND defense to ours, or last year's Chiefs team to this year's Chiefs... they are already a completely new team on offense, and I expect Pioli to draft Defense heavy because like you said, 31st vs run and pass is unacceptable...but keeping our offense on the field is the first step to improving our Run-D.

But its not just the D-Line that needs improvement for our run D. Its our LB's, AND safeties... yes, both safeties are important to run defense. I think our D-Line will be much improved with T.Jackson and Dorsey both being high picks w/ more experience and continuity. The addition of a nose tackle in the first 3 rounds is also important to rotate with S.Smith, the mauler....more LB's couldnt hurt either lol...but I think this is still our deepest position, albeit not all fit our system...

But I think an aggressive, playmaking safety like Berry would really shorten the field on opposing offenses, and just make it that much more difficult for them to be aggressive, hence making it easier for our defense to play against them.

But seriously. Who do we have at safety right now? Jared Page? Thats it. We need some serious help, if not Berry, then someone else thats capable of making some plays...

Bike
04-03-2010, 10:35 PM
I think the biggest confusion might be that people are confusing free safeties and strong safeties. The difference is as big as the difference between ILBs and OLBs.

In a 3-4, a SS is almost a 5th linebacker. He hits hard, plays the run, and covers intermediate routes.

In a 3-4, a FS assists the cornerback in coverage, is the last-line of defense in running/short-passing plays, and ballhawks the deep pass.

Berry will be a FS, not a SS. His big advantages are his speed, his vision, and his instincts. His athleticism and coverage skills would be mostly underutilized as a SS. If anyone thinks he can be our Troy Polamalu, they are misunderstanding what his role would be on the football field.
You remind me of jmlamerson a bit. He is also a student of the game (imo) but quit coming around. Or did he?
REP.

yashi
04-03-2010, 11:08 PM
You remind me of jmlamerson a bit. He is also a student of the game (imo) but quit coming around. Or did he?
REP.

jmlamerson also thought our 2008 draft was overrated and that he had no faith in Jamaal Charles becoming a good RB. Meh.

Bike
04-03-2010, 11:18 PM
jmlamerson also thought our 2008 draft was overrated and that he had no faith in Jamaal Charles becoming a good RB. Meh.
I have to admit, I didn't either. I'm glad I was wrong!!

hometeam
04-04-2010, 12:14 AM
What are you talking about OP? If we draft berry he will be the SS.

jacko58
04-04-2010, 12:54 AM
:punk:
Berry has actually played just as much strong safety as free safety at Tennessee, and also played some nickel. He can be moved all over the place, depending on the situation. He's a sure tackler and very smart, which can be very helpful against the run. Obviously he's most known for his playmaking and elite range in pass coverage, but his run help shouldn't be underlooked. How many big runs did we give up last season because our safeties were out of place and unable to make a play?


agreed

bwilliams
04-04-2010, 01:15 AM
jmlamerson also thought our 2008 draft was overrated and that he had no faith in Jamaal Charles becoming a good RB. Meh.

I love our 2008 draft, especially Charles, Flowers, and Carr (although I'm not a big Dorsey fan). I really like Albert, but he needs to get moved to OG.

I don't like the fact that we traded Jared Allen though. Imagine him as our OLB opposite Hali. *sigh*

bwilliams
04-04-2010, 01:30 AM
What are you talking about OP? If we draft berry he will be the SS.

I disagree. He is projected as a FS in the NFL due to his instincts and coverage ability. I don't think any team that drafts him wastes those talents by making him a SS. If the Chiefs draft him, they move Page to SS and put Berry at FS.

Connie Jo
04-04-2010, 01:36 AM
I posted this in the other thread, "Bold Prediction"... related to drafting Berry as well. Attempting to make a rational decision as to whom I felt the Chiefs should draft in the first round...I read this article a few weeks ago & saved it.

I have many logical & justified reasons for why I personally believe Berry is the wisest first round choice for the Chiefs, and though this article doesn't back up all of my reasons for preferring Berry, it does back up a large portion of my reason. :)

INDIANAPOLIS -- Over time, cornerbacks such as Rod Woodson (http://www.nfl.com/players/rodwoodson/profile?id=WOO699408) and Ronnie Lott (http://www.nfl.com/players/ronnielott/profile?id=LOT519110) were moved to safety because they had lost a step. They still had coverage skills, and their ability to set defenses from a wider scope, match up with slot receivers and tight ends, and fearlessly take on running backs near the line of scrimmage made them valuable. And they prospered.

Now teams aren't waiting for cornerbacks to grow older to consider making the switch, as the Arizona Cardinals (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/teams/arizonacardinals/profile?team=ARI) showed last season by moving fourth-year pro Antrel Rolle (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/antrelrolle/profile?id=ROL403288) to free safety, where he transitioned, with success, alongside two-time Pro Bowl strong safety Adrian Wilson.

The trend is to find cover safeties who not only protect against the deep ball and disrupt crossing routes but also deliver a blow that makes running backs and receivers tread lightly at the second and third levels of the defense. "The safety position is becoming more and more of a corner position," New England Patriots (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/teams/newenglandpatriots/profile?team=NE) coach Bill Belichick said. "There were times when some of the safeties, particularly the strong safeties, fit more like linebackers than they did as defensive backs. The demands of that position have changed."

General managers, scouts and coaches have combed the college ranks for versatile defensive backs whose toughness and athleticism can meet the criteria for the evolving dynamics of secondary play. Maybe more than any other position, defensive backs were heavily scrutinized during their workouts on the final day of the NFL Scouting Combine.

Footwork, the ability to change directions and ball-tracking skills were crucial to show in workouts. Some of those traits might not show up on film because certain players, such as Ohio State cornerback Malcolm Jenkins (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/malcolm-jenkins?id=79848), weren't tested by opponents very often. Jenkins, a rugged, do-it-all type, might have more teams looking at him as a safety instead of a cornerback after his 4.53-second 40-yard dash Tuesday at the combine didn't even rate in the top 10 among all defensive backs (http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers). Jenkins' speed was a question that teams wanted answered, and by running slower than desired, he could have hurt his draft status and slipped out of the upper echelon of defensive prospects.

Still, safeties need to be fast, too. Oregon's Patrick Chung (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/patrick-chung?id=71251) and Western Michigan's Louis Delmas (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/louis-delmas?id=71279), two of the more highly rated safety prospects, have played different positions in the secondary, which makes them all the more appealing to NFL teams, especially because they're also bell ringers. "I was a rover, so it was pretty much corner, strong safety, free, linebacker all mixed into one," Chung said about how he was used in college. "I'm not limited at all."

Safeties used to be pigeon-holed and viewed, along with defensive tackles, as the least-valued position on defense.
Strong safeties were big hitters who weighed 220-plus pounds and served as fourth or fifth linebackers. Free safeties were, and pretty much still are, cerebral signal-callers who played center field in pass coverage. But the game-altering production of Troy Polamalu (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/troypolamalu/profile?id=POL041872), Ed Reed (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/edreed/profile?id=REE192451), Bob Sanders and Wilson has changed the thinking about safeties. Four of the top five interception leaders in 2008 were safeties. Reed led the NFL with nine picks, and Green Bay's Nick Collins (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/nickcollins/profile?id=COL653692), Tennessee's Michael Griffin (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/michaelgriffin/profile?id=GRI232017) and Polamalu each had seven. Green Bay's Charles Woodson (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/charleswoodson/profile?id=WOO661523), the lone cornerback in the top five, also had seven.

Safeties typically weren't drafted in the first round, but the tide is turning. In the past three drafts, eight safeties have been first-round selections -- four in 2007 (LaRon Landry (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/laronlandry/profile?id=LAN165690), Michael Griffin, Reggie Nelson and Brandon Meriweather (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/brandonmeriweather/profile?id=MER280467)). Three of those eight were top-eight picks (Landry, Michael Huff (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/michaelhuff/profile?id=HUF222475) and Donte Whitner (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/dontewhitner/profile?id=WHI720119)).


While the highest-rated safety prospects in this draft are considered late first-rounders or early second-rounders, Delmas, Chung, Alabama's Rashad Johnson (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/rashad-johnson?id=71353) and Missouri's William Moore (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/william-moore?id=71405) all could emerge as immediate impact players. "Ideally, we'd like to get to a situation where you have interchangeable safeties," said Atlanta Falcons (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/teams/atlantafalcons/profile?team=ATL) general manager Thomas Dimitroff, whose expertise as a college scout was evaluating defensive backs. "Maybe one guy is the strong safety, but you can flip it. Troy Polamalu and Ed Reed, those guys are great football players who set the benchmark. It's not easy to find those guys year in and year out, but those are the type of guys that we are ultimately looking for at the safety position."

One of the main reasons that teams are trying to find dual-role safeties is so they can better disguise defenses. Teams that routinely bring the same safety toward the line of scrimmage when putting eight defenders "in the box" tip off offenses and allow audibles to be called and the scheme to be exploited. If the same safety comes on blitzes most of the time, the same can happen. Teams also know which safety is weaker in coverage and try to match him up with a more athletic tight end, a shifty running back or a slot receiver. The Redskins used the sixth overall pick in the 2007 draft on safety LaRon Landry.

Free safeties used to be viewed as some of the lightest hitters in the secondary, and offenses tried to put them in situations to make tackles on cutback runs. That perception has changed as free safeties such as Indianapolis' Antoine Bethea (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/antoinebethea/profile?id=BET074391), Pittsburgh's Ryan Clark (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/players/ryanclark/profile?id=CLA544413) and Rolle laid the wood just as violently and frequently as their strong-safety counterparts. More offenses also are using three- and four-receiver sets on first and second downs, forcing defenses to play nickel packages or leave themselves exposed to potential mismatches with strong safeties and/or outside linebackers.

If a defense can mask schemes, blitzes and coverages by moving around one safety or the other or by playing two-deep coverage, pre-snap reads are tougher for quarterbacks to make. Having safeties with similar skills makes executing the defense that much easier. "There is a lot of variety in your coverages," Dimitroff said to that point. "I think it's something that usually will keep the offenses guessing. I'm a lot more apt to evaluate a player with the ability to cover as well as have the ability to come up and stick his nose in there and be an aggressive run-stopper guy."

Another shift regarding hybrid-type safeties is the body types of this season's prospects. Most have cornerback measurables, between 5-11 and 6-1, and only a handful weigh above 220. Moore, a highly regarded prospect, weighs 221, and at the Senior Bowl, there was some thought that his eventual position could be outside linebacker.

There's always some concern that some of the smaller, punishing safeties could have durability issues, as Sanders does, but that's where evaluators must determine if a player can add weight through training or has the body type to sustain that type of play. "I think some of those hybrid guys have played corner and safety," Belichick said. "What his best fit is for a team, where he's most valuable, is certainly an interesting discussion for all teams."

bwilliams
04-04-2010, 01:46 AM
Connie, I posted this in the other thread, but (in short) I think our two big issues are (1) stopping the run; and (2) rushing the passer. And A FS doesn't solve either of those issues, as your article admits. We don't need "cover safeties who not only protect against the deep ball and disrupt crossing routes but also deliver a blow that makes running backs and receivers tread lightly at the second and third levels of the defense." We need a NT and ILBs who stop running backs from getting to the second and 3rd levels, and we need a OLB who can prevent the QB from having the time to throw the long ball.

Connie Jo
04-04-2010, 02:17 AM
Connie, I posted this in the other thread, but (in short) I think our two big issues are (1) stopping the run; and (2) rushing the passer. And A FS doesn't solve either of those issues, as your article admits. We don't need "cover safeties who not only protect against the deep ball and disrupt crossing routes but also deliver a blow that makes running backs and receivers tread lightly at the second and third levels of the defense." We need a NT and ILBs who stop running backs from getting to the second and 3rd levels, and we need a OLB who can prevent the QB from having the time to throw the long ball.

Yeah, I read your reply there, but it was after posting this reply article here...I wasn't sure you'd come back to this thread on the subject, since you began a new related thread.

I replied in the other thread to you, as to why I respectively don't agree, that we need to use our first round pick on a NT, ILB, or offensive lineman...by comparison to drafting Berry.

The important thing is...though we may disagree on who we should draft in the first...we both want the end result...playoffs and a Chiefs Super Bowl!!

:chiefs: :yahoo:

Big Daddy Tek
04-04-2010, 07:20 AM
Unfortunately, there has been a lot of time wasted on this thread about free or strong safety.

There is no difference in Romeo Crennel's defense. Both safeties play the same exact position and can line up on either side depending on the offensive formation.

With that said, this is actually the kind of defense that would work very well for an Eric Berry, because he will always be in the best position to make plays.

On the other hand, when you rank 31st in sacks, it doesn't really matter who your safeties are.

honda522
04-04-2010, 01:06 PM
Since you asked...

Safeties are the last line of defense, and are thus expected to be sure tacklers.

His job tends to be to keep some distance from the line of scrimmage, watch the play unfold, and follow the ball. The free safety would correspond to the quarterback in man coverage, but as the quarterback usually remains in the pocket the free safety is "free" to double cover another player. On pass plays, the free safety is expected to assist the cornerback on his side and to close the distance to the receiver by the time the ball reaches him. Offenses tend to use the play action pass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Play_action_pass) specifically to make the free safety expect a run play, which would draw him closer to the line of scrimmage, and reduce his effectiveness as a pass defender. If the offense puts a receiver in the slot, then the free safety may be called upon to cover that receiver. Free safeties occasionally blitz (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blitz_%28American_football%29) as well. When this happens, the pressure on the quarterback is often very severe since a blitz by a defensive back is not usually anticipated. Free safeties, because of their speed and deep coverage, are often prone to catching interceptions


NFL safety today must fly like wideout, sting like LB

October 7, 2006

Leeway for Sunday night scheduling (http://legacy.signonsandiego.com/sports/chargers/20061007-9999-1s7chnotes.html) Chuck Cecil was a fourth-round draft choice out of the University of Arizona in 1988. At 6 feet, 185 pounds, he didn't have great size or speed for a safety, but his hard-hitting style and insatiable appetite for contact allowed him to impact passing games because receivers had to account for his whereabouts.
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2010/04/27.jpg

JIM BAIRD / Union-Tribune
Count on Pittsburgh safety Troy Polamalu (left) being around the ball a lot Sunday night vs. the Chargers, as he was last October against the Bolts' Antonio Gates.
He had a productive seven-year NFL career, appearing in 95 games (61 starts) and recording 344 tackles and 16 interceptions. But when asked recently if he could play in the NFL if he were coming out of college today, Cecil was as firm with his answer as he was with his hits.
“No,” he said.
Cecil pointed to rules changes that opened up passing games and improved player safety. The adjustments forced clubs to rethink their attitudes toward safeties. It was no longer good enough to have miniature linebackers on the back end of the defense. Safeties also had to be athletic and fast enough to cover downfield.
“No question, those things changed the safety position,” said Tennessee coach Jeff Fisher, a former safety who played four seasons in Chicago. “The play-action game, the vertical game, has redefined the position. The days of the old neck-roll strong safety are over. That guy's now a linebacker. Peyton Manning and the rest of the talented quarterbacks in this league are stretching the field, if you will, and they're putting pressure on the safety down the field.
“In my day, our job was just to come downhill and hit anything that moved. Now we've got corners who are playing the position.”
The most prominent face of the new safety belongs to Troy Polamalu, whose Pittsburgh Steelers will play the Chargers tomorrow evening in Qualcomm Stadium. Polamalu has everything defensive coordinators are seeking these days: instincts, athleticism and playmaking skills against the pass as well as the run. He isn't overly big (5-10, 212) or fast, but he consistently is around the ball, making tackles or forcing turnovers.
“He's unique,” Chargers tight end Antonio Gates said. “If you watch their defense, you really have to key on him. You have to game plan him. That was deep to me, because I had never played a safety that we had to worry about, outside John Lynch. This guy, he's kind of got that John Lynch mentality that he can change the defense that much. He's a tremendous run-stopper, he's a tremendous blitzer, he's fast, he's physical, he has that long hair. He's out there like he's just mad at the world.
“When you're playing, you just have so much respect for him after you play him. You knew he was good on film, but he's even better in person. He can do it all.”
That's heady praise considering the safety position was devalued for so many decades. The last true safety to gain admittance to the Pro Football Hall of Fame was Ken Houston, and that was 20 years ago.
From 1982 through 2003, there were 17 drafts in which only one safety was selected in the first round; and from 1993 through 2003, Dallas' Roy Williams (eighth overall) was the only one taken in the top 10.
http://ads.signonsandiego.com/RealMedia/ads/Creatives/OasDefault/night_day_300_ROS_house_feb10/ (http://ads.signonsandiego.com/RealMedia/ads/click_lx.ads/www.uniontrib.com/sports/chargers/20061007-9999-1s7chargers.html/L33/1911159836/x32/OasDefault/night_day_300_ROS_house_feb10/night_day_300x600_Hp_house.html/725a317a466b7534754a634144576d47?http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/night-and-day) http://ads.signonsandiego.com/RealMedia/ads/adstream_lx.ads/www.uniontrib.com/sports/chargers/20061007-9999-1s7chargers.html/L33/1911159836/x32/OasDefault/night_day_300_ROS_house_feb10/night_day_300x600_Hp_house.html/725a317a466b7534754a634144576d47?_RM_EMPTY_&XE&abc=1&cde=2&tax23_RefDocLoc=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safety_%28American_football%29&if_nt_CookieAccept=Y&XE Times began changing, however, when the league liberalized some rules in the passing game and announced it would make illegal contact a point of emphasis. Plus, the league took steps to reduce helmet-to-helmet contact and hits on vulnerable receivers, thus reducing the intimidation element in some safeties' games.
With lumbering safeties/enforcers out of vogue, teams turned to the draft to address their deficiencies. In fact, there have been three safeties chosen among the first eight players over the past three drafts. And clubs have looked to convert some college cornerbacks to pro safeties.
The newfound respect for the position has meant greater recognition and wealth for safeties. In June, Baltimore's Ed Reed signed a six-year, potential $40 million extension that included $15 million in guarantees. And in August, Dallas' Williams signed a five-year, potential $25.2 million extension that included $11.1 million in guarantees.
“I'll be honest with you: If you don't pay Ed Reed like a corner – and a very good one at that – you're going to lose a guy who makes the other three DBs in your secondary a whole lot better,” said San Francisco coach Mike Nolan, who coached Reed in Baltimore. “That's why I say it's not as clear-cut as some people like to make it when applying values to certain positions. It's like saying the corner who runs 4.5 or 4.4 is better than the one who runs 4.6. You can't tell me that. It doesn't always turn out to be true.”
New England's Rodney Harrison and Denver's Lynch are examples of safeties who have excelled despite lacking the speed of others. Much of their success is due to their intelligence and understanding of offenses, which allow them to disguise their intentions but consistently be in the right place at the right time when the ball is snapped.
Still, as Tennessee's Fisher said, Harrison and Lynch are a dying breed. Defenses are so concerned about being able to match up when offenses go with three and four receivers and look to attack downfield that they're seeking safeties who can run with wideouts as well as tight ends.
“It used to be that one of your safeties was a cover guy and the other was a big thumper who basically was an enforcer,” Cecil said. “You weren't asked to cover. There was basically a big circle around you and it told the offense, 'Don't throw it in this area, otherwise you might not get to play with that guy the rest of the game or the rest of the season.' It was a no-fly zone.
“I don't know how to put it diplomatically, but that type of game really isn't allowed anymore. You can't really look for those types of guys. What you're looking for are guys who can cover down the field. The safety position is really more of a safety/corner a lot of times. Teams are isolating safeties with wide receivers. There's really no use crying about it, because the minute you do, someone will be running by you for a touchdown.”

yashi
04-04-2010, 02:21 PM
It should also be noted that any safety, FS or SS, does not have the same responsibility throughout the game. There will be Cover 2 situations where the field is split in half, Cover 3 where the FS and both corners drop deep, the FS could be sent to blitz some plays, man cover, etc. We're acting like each safety has the same assignment all game long. Sure, if you want a predictable Herm Edwards style like playing Cover 2 all day long.

BTW, it still amazes me to this day that we were at one time trying to play Cover 2 with Bernard Pollard responsible for half the field in deep coverage. It should be no wonder that he thrived once he was allowed to play up near the line with the Texans. Hell Page isn't a very good coverage safety either. I actually like him more as a SS because he's a big hard hitting type, with some playmaking ability.

lucky_lefty
04-04-2010, 04:39 PM
If all goes well, then the FS doesn't get to do anything. If the FS is involved in alot of plays, then your defense sucks.
.

Not attacking your post or you but that makes no sense at all. With that logic then Polamalu, Reed & Sanders (when healthy) must have been on some of the worst defenses

chief31
04-04-2010, 04:59 PM
Not attacking your post or you but that makes no sense at all. With that logic then Polamalu, Reed & Sanders (when healthy) must have been on some of the worst defenses

No, because Polamalu is a SS and Reed isn't involved in the play all that often. He just happens to come up with plays when the opportunity arises.

In 2009 Reed had a career high in tackles, with 85.

As that defense has aged, more and more plays are reaching him, as fewer plays are being contained by the front.

If all goes well, RBs and shorter route recievers are all down before they reach the FS.

And, of course, there are exceptions. Sometimes the FS will be placed in man coverage. Sometimes he will blitz. But that goes with any position on the defense.

A FS is an "insurance" position, not the foundation.

KottkeKU
04-04-2010, 05:44 PM
I just think Eric Berry has the ability to create turnovers, which our defense sorely lacks right now... he is a playmaker.

honda522
04-04-2010, 08:43 PM
I just think Eric Berry has the ability to create turnovers, which our defense sorely lacks right now... he is a playmaker.
This. He will be a playmaker weather he is supporting the run or pass. The guy hits like a freight train.

hometeam
04-04-2010, 09:25 PM
^ Agreed. He is not just a ball hawk, he can lay people out too. Hes done it for years, nothing makes me think he wont continue that trend.

Seek
04-05-2010, 02:35 PM
What makes you think that? If we upgraded our long snapper, does it make our passing game better?

A free safety is a last-line-of-defense tackler and ball hawk. How does he help the run defense or pass rush?

I am not a fan of drafting Berry, but having a good secondary does take away passing lanes which forces the QB to hold the ball longer and creates a coverage sack.

While I agree with you that we need help at D Line and Linebacker before spend a high pick on a safety. A very valuable FS or SS will help the defense. A good safety is not the last line of defense. They are attacking just as the line backer is. There is others on the team as a last last resort in their pursuit of following the ball.

If the safety complete whiffs on a play, Liek the Chiefs did last year. That pursuit from other players makes the last resort even harder.

I still agree tha the chiefs need help in the front before we go safety.

honda522
04-05-2010, 10:13 PM
What makes you think that? If we upgraded our long snapper, does it make our passing game better?

A free safety is a last-line-of-defense tackler and ball hawk. How does he help the run defense or pass rush?
There, you just said it. He is a safety, the last line of defense. Hints his name as safety, he saving the team..or in theory that is.

Connie Jo
04-06-2010, 12:59 AM
It appears to me that teams are doing more long pass play calling...especially teams with notable long pass talented QB's, such as that of the Manning's. I've not researched stats, but from memory it seems there were many high scoring games in the NFL last season...obviously long pass plays contributed. This also backs theory teams are calling more long pass plays. They have to rely more today on long passes to win games, as defensive players become bigger, stronger, & tougher each season, by comparison to years past. This obviously means the positions of corner's and safetie's on defense need to be GOOD, if not outstanding in playmaking talent, such as high interception stats.

We didn't lose games just because of not being able to stop a QB with sacks or pressure, nor stopping their rushing game. Many of our opponents have strong OL's, preventing our defense from getting to their QB's as much as we'd like, etc..

We also lost games because we were weak at the safety position, helping corners to prevent our opponents from completing long passes, gaining high yardage and scoring TD's.

I believe a team needs just as strong of offense as they do defense to be a long term consistent winning team. I'm not a believer in that defense wins more games than offense...they go hand & hand IMO, 50/50 if wanting long term consistency. I do agree 100% that we need a strong defense to win...but I believe we have existing talented players already that can stop the run and pressure the QB as much as possible...with exception of a couple holes. Those holes can be filled fairly easily without using our first draft pick...nor do I believe there is a player in the first round of whom will make an immediate impact/difference with pressuring the QB & stopping the run, any more than those we already have on the Chiefs team.

Those defensive talented players I feel we already have will emerge as such with the help of Crennel & other negative factor's resolved during this off season...that contributed to their 'mistakes' last season with stopping the run & pressuring the QB.

What we don't have is as talented a safety to emerge with the help of coaching. We need a talented safety to help stop the long pass game. Where are we gonna get one by comparison to that of Berry's potential long term talent? A talented safety is gonna cost us money, a veteran talented safety will cost us more money than a first round draft pick safety...no?

wildcat
04-06-2010, 10:33 AM
I actually believe that Berry, or any player that has a major impact on any one area of our D, can improve our team as a whole. If we have better pass coverage, we have more time to get to the QB, so Berry could actually help create some sacks.

It is also true that if we get to the QB more, then our pass coverage looks better because the QB has less time to get rid of the ball. You can also get inside the QBs head by pressuring him and this effects all aspects of his game.

If the pass D is exceptional (and your offense does it's job), odds are pretty good that the other team is going to fall behind on the scoreboard and become one dimensional. This is going to help your run D look a lot better.

If your D keeps the other team's offensive off the field and gives you field position, your offense is going to be given a lot of really good opportunities to score. So, the offense will look better as well.

I am not necessarily saying we should draft Berry, but I just do not get why people are acting like a better secondary will not impact our entire team.

chief31
04-06-2010, 05:59 PM
I am not necessarily saying we should draft Berry, but I just do not get why people are acting like a better secondary will not impact our entire team.

I don't think anyone has said that, at all.

But those of us who feel that a S won't be as helpful as a NT are suggesting that a NT/OLB would have a far bigger impact than a S.

The biggest plus to the S is the potential for turnovers. But, if your defense is terrible with the exception of turnovers, then you aren't going anywhere.

Turnovers are not the foundation of your defense. They are a bonus feature.

Right now we need to get that foundation in place. And the S positions are the furthest from the LOS.

I want the players who will be stopping the run up front. I want the players who will be able to frequently stop a play as close to, or behind, the LOS.

And yes I know, at times, a S CAN be involved close to the LOS. But, just by the very design of NFL defense and the positioning of the S positions, the liklihood is far less than it is for the guys who are already there.

NWA Chief
04-07-2010, 03:09 AM
I was too lazy to read the other posts so if what I say has been said.................I don't care

Getting Berry allows you to blitz more people as he can roam the middle of the field better than the other safeties on our roster.

Also, he may not be the best tackler coming out at safety, but he can't be worse than Mike Brown was last year. He was smart but had nothing left in the tank and took terrible angles.

At the least, Berry brings excellent instincts and a shot of youth in the middle of the field. Tired of seeing McGraw(which I like on ST), Brown and Morgan play deep for us. I have given up on Morgan, he was supposed to be a ST phenom coming out of college and he looks afraid to hit anyone.