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wildcat
04-07-2010, 10:45 AM
Regardless of weather we trade down or not, I think Williams is our pick.

We obviously have huge needs at S, LB, and DT. There are other big needs, but in my opinion, those are the biggest. Of the three, only a DT would be worth investing top 5 money in. If we want to invest a huge amount of money in an LB or S then we would sign a FA that was already proven in the NFL.

I honestly believe that, if he lives up to the hype, a guy like Eric Berry would make our entire team better. However, he has bust written all over him, and that's not his fault in my opinion. The media would already like to make him the highest paid safety in the league. They would probably even put him in the Hall of Fame, and he has not played a single down yet. It would be tough for anybody not to let this go to their head. If I am right, he is going to feel like everything will come to him this easily and he will not put in the kind of work that I guy who feels like he has to prove himself will.

NT is supposed to be the most important position in a 3-4 D and, going into our second year of running a 3-4, we do not have one single potential long term answer at that position. This is our greatest area of need period.

I realize that Cody could potentially be available in the second round, but I honestly kind of doubt it. There are a lot of teams out there looking for a NT. Besides, even if he did fall to us, Cody is a risky project. He is not a 3 down player, and we do not know how he will play at a lighter weight or if he can even keep the weight off.

Ideally, we would trade down to around #10 and pick up an additional draft pick or two , but, either way, I think Williams is the best choice for our top pick.

pbatrucker
04-07-2010, 11:57 AM
I have no idea who the Chiefs will pick at 5. But I do believe it will be OL or DL. I see Buluga and Trent Williams as RT in the NFL. So I don't think it will be one of them. So unless Suh falls to us at 5, I think you could be correct about Dan Williams being the pick at 5.

jacko58
04-07-2010, 12:10 PM
another number one d lineman im sick of it

Drunker Hillbilly
04-07-2010, 12:43 PM
Personally I don't think a D lineman is what is going to put this team over the hump.

Ryfo18
04-07-2010, 12:57 PM
I like your logic. I've been high on Dan Williams too. I would love to trade to just outside the top 10, but there aren't many partners there. Also, It's very rare for teams to trade into the top 5. Berry comes with a lot of hype as you said. I don't think it's wise to tie up that kind of money into a guy like that. Williams would be the final piece to the defensive line puzzle, and makes everyone around him better IMO.

slimdagreat
04-07-2010, 01:40 PM
Personally I don't think a D lineman is what is going to put this team over the hump.

Me neither, unless its McCoy. At least he'd improve our pass rush.

Plus for all the talk about how often Safeties in the 1st round bust, I don't think there's another position outside of QB that busts more in the 1st round than DT, especially top 10 DTs. They have a HIGH bust rate (we already have a potential one in Dorsey)

whatwasthat?
04-07-2010, 01:46 PM
berry may have a lot of hype around him...but i wouldnt go so far as to question the kids work ethic because of it...from what i understand the kid works his *** off and is a student of the game...he seems like a player that is just driven to be great

with that said, i would happily take berry, williams, or mcclain with #5

wildcat
04-07-2010, 02:30 PM
Me neither, unless its McCoy. At least he'd improve our pass rush.

Do you mean Gerald or Colt? Neither one is a great fit for our D-Line.

Assuming you meant Gerald, where does he fit? Do we replace Jackson (our #3 pick last year), Dorsey (our #5 pick from the year before) with him, or do we line him up as an undersized, weak NT who will rarely get to the QB by running up the middle?

Sorry if this post seems a little rude. It was intended to be funny, but I'm not sure it ended up coming out that way. :D

hometeam
04-07-2010, 02:59 PM
You must have never seen Berry in interviews, or read about him from people who have worked with him and known him.

Hell put in the work.

slimdagreat
04-07-2010, 04:28 PM
Do you mean Gerald or Colt? Neither one is a great fit for our D-Line.

Assuming you meant Gerald, where does he fit? Do we replace Jackson (our #3 pick last year), Dorsey (our #5 pick from the year before) with him, or do we line him up as an undersized, weak NT who will rarely get to the QB by running up the middle?

Sorry if this post seems a little rude. It was intended to be funny, but I'm not sure it ended up coming out that way. :D

While its not ideal, he's got the size and talent to play NT in a 3-4. I think he'd instantly make TJ and GD better.

That being said, the point of my post wasn't to say that I think we should do everything we can to get him, it was to point out if we're going to take a DL in the 1st, we need to take one that can rush the passer, which is why I DON'T think Dan Williams is the pick.

chief31
04-07-2010, 04:33 PM
While its not ideal, he's got the size and talent to play NT in a 3-4. I think he'd instantly make TJ and GD better.

That being said, the point of my post wasn't to say that I think we should do everything we can to get him, it was to point out if we're going to take a DL in the 1st, we need to take one that can rush the passer, which is why I DON'T think Dan Williams is the pick.

So you want to switch back to a 4-3?

I mean, since 3-4 D-linemen aren't expected to get to the QB and all.:D

slimdagreat
04-07-2010, 04:39 PM
So you want to switch back to a 4-3?

I mean, since 3-4 D-linemen aren't expected to get to the QB and all.:D

Where did I say that?

I said I think McCoy CAN play in a 3-4, and that he could make Dorsey and Jackson better.

My point was, if we take a front 7 player, they have to be able to rush the passer, the only DTs that can do that effectively are Suh and McCoy.

Ryfo18
04-07-2010, 04:43 PM
Where did I say that?

I said I think McCoy CAN play in a 3-4, and that he could make Dorsey and Jackson better.

My point was, if we take a front 7 player, they have to be able to rush the passer, the only DTs that can do that effectively are Suh and McCoy.

You expect a guy listed at 6'4" 295lbs to play the NT in a 3-4D? He'll get crushed, I don't care how much raw talent he has in a 4-3 scheme. McCoy is another Dorsey/Jackson in a 3-4 scheme.

slimdagreat
04-07-2010, 05:08 PM
You expect a guy listed at 6'4" 295lbs to play the NT in a 3-4D? He'll get crushed, I don't care how much raw talent he has in a 4-3 scheme. McCoy is another Dorsey/Jackson in a 3-4 scheme.

Well Ryan Pickett from GB is 6'2 310. I'm sure if he had to McCoy could put on 15 lbs.

Jason Ferguson is 6'3 310

Bryan Robinson is 6'4 304

I don't think his size would be that big of a deal if these guys can play NT.

Again, McCoy at NT wouldn't be ideal, but he could do it.

Ryfo18
04-07-2010, 05:26 PM
Well Ryan Pickett from GB is 6'2 310. I'm sure if he had to McCoy could put on 15 lbs.

Jason Ferguson is 6'3 310

Bryan Robinson is 6'4 304

I don't think his size would be that big of a deal if these guys can play NT.

Again, McCoy at NT wouldn't be ideal, but he could do it.

You know, the more I look into McCoy I tend to agree with you that he could be a better NT than Williams if he puts on a few pounds. Williams is a bit short for a NT. Nevertheless, I think both could be capable NT's for us.

buffman316
04-07-2010, 05:30 PM
There is no way we take a DL with that pick. Not in a 3-4 Defense.
We need Berry in this pass happy league

chief31
04-07-2010, 05:34 PM
My point was, if we take a front 7 player, they have to be able to rush the passer




the point of my post ...was to point out if we're going to take a DL in the 1st, we need to take one that can rush the passer

Do you see the misunderstanding here?

In one post you tell us hat your point is to get a pass-rusher for the "front seven", but in another you say that the point is to have a D-lineman that can get to the QB.

3-4 D-linemen are at a huge disadvantage for getting to the QB because the first thing they do is position themselves to occupy blockers. Not the best strategy for getting to the QB.

Rarely does a D-lineman get the green light to "pin his ears back" and go get the QB. And, knowing this, the players who are put at those positions are generally not those with great pass-rushing skills. Why bother? They will rarely use those skills in a 3-4.

Where those guys help in the pass rush is not by getting to the QB, but by creating enough havoc that the blockers are distracted from being able to concentrate on where the blitzer(s) is/are coming from.

Ryfo18
04-07-2010, 05:39 PM
Yes, 3-4 NTs are not going to be sack leaders. They need to take up space to free up the linebackers to get to the QB. A good NT may have 3-4 sacks a year, but I'd be willing to bet a lot of these are "coverage" sacks. This is just an assumption though.

slimdagreat
04-07-2010, 05:39 PM
Okay, I guess I could have worded that better.

What I was saying was that we need to improve the pass rush first and foremost. If we take a front 7 player, they have to be able to rush the passer.

If we take a DL, they have to at the very least be able to clog things up enough to help the rest of the pass rush.

That's what I was trying to say.