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View Full Version : We should not have got Berry



figcrostic
04-23-2010, 10:56 AM
For you guys saying we needed a safety maybe so, but not as much as someone to stop the run. Last year our run defense was 31 second to worst, while our pass was not good it was 22 considerably higher then our run defense. We needed someone that can make tackles inside and plug gaping holes in our d-line. What we needed was a NT or a beast OLB to rush the qb so they don't have 2 minutes to throw the ball (which would help our current secondary out) or a ILB that can actually tackle.:chiefs:

bwilliams
04-23-2010, 11:03 AM
For you guys saying we needed a safety maybe so, but not as much as someone to stop the run. Last year our run defense was 31 second to worst, while our pass was not good it was 22 considerably higher then our run defense. We needed someone that can make tackles inside and plug gaping holes in our d-line. What we needed was a NT or a beast OLB to rush the qb so they don't have 2 minutes to throw the ball (which would help our current secondary out) or a ILB that can actually tackle.:chiefs:

Its pretty obvious that the Chiefs didn't like Dan Williams - it wasn't a smokescreen. And there was no other 1st round NT.

Likewise, good ILBs can be found in the 2nd and 3rd. You don't need to spend a 1st rounder on one.

And they do seem happy with Albert at LT. I disagree, but they're the experts I guess.

Honestly, I never thought the Chiefs would pick Berry. Not in a million years. When Okung dropped, I was certain that would be our pick. But I understand why they did it. They didn't like the 1st round NT and they don't think we need a LT. So they picked a can't miss prospect at a position of need.

And make no mistake. Berry is going to be an excellent FS for us for a number of years. But it probably won't equate to wins unless we get some OL, LB, and (especially) NT help in Rounds 2 and 3.

hometeam
04-23-2010, 11:36 AM
im sure you know better than pioli, weiss, crennell, haley, and the entire scouting arm of the KC Chiefs.

They have a plan, not just for the first pick of the draft but for the ENTIRE DRAFT.

wait till the draft is over before you cry too much.

figcrostic
04-23-2010, 11:44 AM
im sure you know better than pioli, weiss, crennell, haley, and the entire scouting arm of the KC Chiefs.

They have a plan, not just for the first pick of the draft but for the ENTIRE DRAFT.

wait till the draft is over before you cry too much.

Looking at last years draft, I'm starting to think Pioli isn't the draft master everyone said he was. I hate how if you question a decision, your "crying" no I'm a fan that has an opinon just like you. What if Pioli picked up Tim Tebow would you say the same thing that he has a plan, yeah you probably would.

yashi
04-23-2010, 11:50 AM
We will get an NT at some point in this draft. I'm pretty sure of that. It should be no surprise we didn't take Dan Williams, he didn't even get a private workout.

I felt the same way about LT for a while, but the fact remains that Albert excelled once we switched to more of a zone-blocking scheme. Now with Wiegmann and Lilja, we are practically built for this scheme. We just need a quicker RT.

Rotoworld is projecting Berry to at least start out at SS with Page at FS. I'm sure if Page doesn't get better than he's a candidate for free agency next season with Berry moving to FS though.

Also Charles Brown is still available, so a very good zone-blocking OT is still out there if we decide to go that route.

What an exciting draft so far, I'm really excited to see who we end up with in the 2nd.

bwilliams
04-23-2010, 11:55 AM
We will get an NT at some point in this draft. I'm pretty sure of that. It should be no surprise we didn't take Dan Williams, he didn't even get a private workout.

I felt the same way about LT for a while, but the fact remains that Albert excelled once we switched to more of a zone-blocking scheme. Now with Wiegmann and Lilja, we are practically built for this scheme. We just need a quicker RT.

Rotoworld is projecting Berry to at least start out at SS with Page at FS. I'm sure if Page doesn't get better than he's a candidate for free agency next season with Berry moving to FS though.

Also Charles Brown is still available, so a very good zone-blocking OT is still out there if we decide to go that route.

What an exciting draft so far, I'm really excited to see who we end up with in the 2nd.

I forgot about Brown! OK, he should definitely be our 2a if he drops.

And we'd be nuts to start Berry at SS instead of FS. He's Ed Reed, not Troy Polamalu.

KristofLaw
04-23-2010, 11:58 AM
I can't complain about this pick as I had a genuine hope in getting either Berry or Taylor Mays. I'm happy although I still hold out some hope in picking Mays as unlikely as that may be and as strange as that may sound.

The reason I have little concern regarding a DT is I do not believe there wasn't anyone available that I would have been comfortable picking at 5 or even trading very far down in the 1st round for. You can count me in as one who would not be disappointed in landing Cody, but whatever happens, happens IMO we will get somebody in the upcoming rounds.

I do believe we should get Golden Tate however......

Chief Tyler
04-23-2010, 12:09 PM
Looking at last years draft, I'm starting to think Pioli isn't the draft master everyone said he was. I hate how if you question a decision, your "crying" no I'm a fan that has an opinon just like you. What if Pioli picked up Tim Tebow would you say the same thing that he has a plan, yeah you probably would.

What if he passed on his pick completely or traded that pick to ESPN for the rights to Herm Edwards... You don't have much of a point. Berry was a legitimate choice in our position by almost every expert opinion. Never in a million years would Tebow have been "part of the plan".

By the way, it looks less like crying if you justify your position, attempt to structure it into a coherent sentence, and avoid lashing out at others. Example: Who do you suggest we take at the 5 spot? I'll give my reasons as to why I think we took Berry in the end.

An ILB wouldn't make any more sense than Berry as they're taken inside the top ten just as infrequently as safeties, and McClain isn't regarded as the same "can't miss" prospect that Berry is or Curry was last year.

Judging by how far Dan Williams fell, a bunch of teams saw something they didn't like in him. The Bills, Chargers, Fins and a few other teams all needed a NT and passed to fill positions of arguably less need. He was my pick at number five, but the Chiefs aren't alone in passing on him. I'd trust the personnel of multiple NFL teams over fans on most days.

They didn't want a tackle. Albert stepped it up last year when we had a running game to help out. He may not be elite yet, but he was nowhere near the bottom of the league's left tackles and apparently the brass hasn't given up on him as a LT or they have somebody else in mind. Personally, I hope it's Charles Brown.

Finally, an OLB would have been a stretch. We need an immediate impact player and don't have room to experiment with picks. I generally don't put much faith in "bust rates", but it's a little scarier when you pay a guy a bunch of money and then ask him to play a new position.

Ryfo18
04-23-2010, 12:13 PM
Just reading the articles on Berry, the guy succeeds at everything he does. A lot of the other top 10 draft picks already were $100k in debt on jewelry and cars (did you notice). Berry says he's going to buy a Camaro. I like the guys character, and he's a freak of nature that always has exceeded expectations. I never thought in a million years they'd take him, but I'm not disappointed that they did. This early 2nd round pick is going to be huge too, there is a lot of first round talent there. Even pick 50 we'll probably get a guy who can be a day 1 starter. I would quit complaining until after the draft.

kcnation
04-23-2010, 12:27 PM
personally i didn't think they would pick him either,but after listening and watching more about him i like the pick a lot.i really thought they were going to pick okung for sure also but there are a lot of good linemen out there and after seeing some of the picks after ours i don't think we made a dumb move as some others did

matthewschiefs
04-23-2010, 12:27 PM
I think we should have traded down myself. Berry could make this a very good pick. But the thing that made me not want to do this is there are bigger needs and needs that will affect the safety postion. If you dont have a pass rush it wont matter whos back there at safety/cb the qb will have all day and someone will get open. WE HAVE TO FIX THIS. Can we do it still in this draft yes but that would be like fixing WR before o line. it would not matter if we had jerry rice in his prime if the QB had no time to throw the ball. I hope berry works out but I think that we should have went anther way. But maybe thats why i am not a gm lol.

Drunker Hillbilly
04-23-2010, 12:29 PM
IMO, all of this 'we shouldn't have taken Berry" and "I guess I'm not disappointed but" talk is just absurd! Everyone has an opinion and is welcome to it but the bottom line is that you simply don't pass on arguably the 2nd best talent in the draft. Period, regardless of need. This guy makes our team better INSTANTLY! Yes we need O linemaen, yes we need a run stuffer, yes we need a LOT but when this kind of talent is available, you take him!!!! I can't count how many times in the last 10 years our team has been beat because of the lack of safety help. It sickens me every year, among other things but getting beat deep has been an issue for a long time, this kid will help. It's a pass happy league now days and DB's, S, CB's are a necessity! Just ask the team that had the best in the league, Jets.

bwilliams
04-23-2010, 12:30 PM
I can't complain about this pick as I had a genuine hope in getting either Berry or Taylor Mays. I'm happy although I still hold out some hope in picking Mays as unlikely as that may be and as strange as that may sound.

The reason I have little concern regarding a DT is I do not believe there wasn't anyone available that I would have been comfortable picking at 5 or even trading very far down in the 1st round for. You can count me in as one who would not be disappointed in landing Cody, but whatever happens, happens IMO we will get somebody in the upcoming rounds.

I do believe we should get Golden Tate however......

Drafting Mays at 2a and putting him at SS and Berry at FS would be something. I mean, I know we have gaping holes all over the place, but, man, we'd be set at safety for the next decade.

Drunker Hillbilly
04-23-2010, 12:31 PM
I think we should have traded down myself. Berry could make this a very good pick. But the thing that made me not want to do this is there are bigger needs and needs that will affect the safety postion. If you dont have a pass rush it wont matter whos back there at safety/cb the qb will have all day and someone will get open. WE HAVE TO FIX THIS. Can we do it still in this draft yes but that would be like fixing WR before o line. it would not matter if we had jerry rice in his prime if the QB had no time to throw the ball. I hope berry works out but I think that we should have went anther way. But maybe thats why i am not a gm lol.
Really? I look at it the exact opposite way. If there is no pass rush, you HAVE to have someone guarding guys in the back field.

Drunker Hillbilly
04-23-2010, 12:37 PM
Drafting Mays at 2a and putting him at SS and Berry at FS would be something. I mean, I know we have gaping holes all over the place, but, man, we'd be set at safety for the next decade.
Being in Az. I watch a LOT of Pac 10 football and Taylor Mays is way over rated IMO. Well, maybe not since he's still available but all the talk about him here is odd to me. He is ALL about the big hit. Saw him get burned for TD's a ton and he is not a great tackler. He would be a pass for me on our next pick for sure. I might take a flyer on him if he were there in the 3rd but not before that and I don't think he will be. I know it sounds a bit contradictory but my point is that I wouldn't take him with our next pick.

matthewschiefs
04-23-2010, 12:38 PM
Really? I look at it the exact opposite way. If there is no pass rush, you HAVE to have someone guarding guys in the back field.

If you have a whole group of shutdown corners and great safetys sure that might work. But thats not what we have right now. I don't think that picking Berry was a bad pick I just don't think that it was the best pick for this team right now.

Drunker Hillbilly
04-23-2010, 12:42 PM
Like I said, IMO when the 2 nd best talent in the draft is there at #5, you take him no matter your need. Our team is better the second we sign him. I haven't seen 1 draft ranking that doesn't have the Chiefs at an A+ or an A for taking Berry.

pbatrucker
04-23-2010, 12:46 PM
Being in Az. I watch a LOT of Pac 10 football and Taylor Mays is way over rated IMO. Well, maybe not since he's still available but all the talk about him here is odd to me. He is ALL about the big hit. Saw him get burned for TD's a ton and he is not a great tackler. He would be a pass for me on our next pick for sure. I might take a flyer on him if he were there in the 3rd but not before that and I don't think he will be. I know it sounds a bit contradictory but my point is that I wouldn't take him with our next pick.

You're just stating what most people already knows. Mays is an athletic freak, but he is not a football player. Poor tackler, does not play with instinct, continuely out of position. Even Pete Carrol picked another safety over him.

Drunker Hillbilly
04-23-2010, 12:53 PM
You're just stating what most people already knows. Mays is an athletic freak, but he is not a football player. Poor tackler, does not play with instinct, continuely out of position. Even Pete Carrol picked another safety over him.
Obviously most people here don't know this! I've seen more that want him than don't! Good point about Seattle not taking him!! :bananen_smilies046:

yashi
04-23-2010, 12:56 PM
Taylor Mays sucks really bad. Just my opinion.

matthewschiefs
04-23-2010, 12:58 PM
Like I said, IMO when the 2 nd best talent in the draft is there at #5, you take him no matter your need. Our team is better the second we sign him. I haven't seen 1 draft ranking that doesn't have the Chiefs at an A+ or an A for taking Berry.


Like i said i dont think that its a bad pick by any means i just dont think that it was the best pick.

I realy dont think that there are any must dos when it comes to the draft it all depends where your team is. If the colts had the number 5 pick and the #2 talent is a qb and they still have peyton should they take him. there are always exceptions. I just think we should have traded down but i have been wrong before and I hope i am wrong now. I just dont think we did the best thing. But we shall see.

yashi
04-23-2010, 01:01 PM
Like i said i dont think that its a bad pick by any means i just dont think that it was the best pick.

I realy dont think that there are any must dos when it comes to the draft it all depends where your team is. If the colts had the number 5 pick and the #2 talent is a qb and they still have peyton should they take him. there are always exceptions. I just think we should have traded down but i have been wrong before and I hope i am wrong now. I just dont think we did the best thing. But we shall see.

Trading down is easier said than done. And the fact is that more than anything else, our team needs talented football players, and Berry is certainly that.

figcrostic
04-23-2010, 01:13 PM
What if he passed on his pick completely or traded that pick to ESPN for the rights to Herm Edwards... You don't have much of a point. Berry was a legitimate choice in our position by almost every expert opinion. Never in a million years would Tebow have been "part of the plan".

By the way, it looks less like crying if you justify your position, attempt to structure it into a coherent sentence, and avoid lashing out at others. Example: Who do you suggest we take at the 5 spot? I'll give my reasons as to why I think we took Berry in the end.

An ILB wouldn't make any more sense than Berry as they're taken inside the top ten just as infrequently as safeties, and McClain isn't regarded as the same "can't miss" prospect that Berry is or Curry was last year.

Judging by how far Dan Williams fell, a bunch of teams saw something they didn't like in him. The Bills, Chargers, Fins and a few other teams all needed a NT and passed to fill positions of arguably less need. He was my pick at number five, but the Chiefs aren't alone in passing on him. I'd trust the personnel of multiple NFL teams over fans on most days.

They didn't want a tackle. Albert stepped it up last year when we had a running game to help out. He may not be elite yet, but he was nowhere near the bottom of the league's left tackles and apparently the brass hasn't given up on him as a LT or they have somebody else in mind. Personally, I hope it's Charles Brown.

Finally, an OLB would have been a stretch. We need an immediate impact player and don't have room to experiment with picks. I generally don't put much faith in "bust rates", but it's a little scarier when you pay a guy a bunch of money and then ask him to play a new position.

Getting the best player in a position is an ignorant way too draft, you draft by need, and a safety was not our biggest need. I don't like Herm Edwards, but how many of the guys drafted by him are starting for the chiefs now? I bet you thought Getting Tyson Jackson was a brilliant move! Getting Berry is like having a car that the clutch is going out, and putting on nice new shiny tires. We need to build the D-line, our secondary is not as weak as the d-line.:whipping1:

matthewschiefs
04-23-2010, 01:19 PM
]Trading down is easier said than done. [/B]And the fact is that more than anything else, our team needs talented football players, and Berry is certainly that.

Good point and I at least hope we made an effort to do so.

Drunker Hillbilly
04-23-2010, 01:34 PM
Getting the best player in a position is an ignorant way too draft, you draft by need, and a safety was not our biggest need. I don't like Herm Edwards, but how many of the guys drafted by him are starting for the chiefs now? I bet you thought Getting Tyson Jackson was a brilliant move, dumbass! Getting Berry is like having a car that the clutch is going out, and putting on nice new shiny tires. We need to build the D-line, our secondary is not as weak as the d-line, so shut up and quit acting like an dick.:whipping1:
Most of the best talent evaluators in the league would disagree with your theory.

bwilliams
04-23-2010, 01:38 PM
Getting the best player in a position is an ignorant way too draft, you draft by need, and a safety was not our biggest need. I don't like Herm Edwards, but how many of the guys drafted by him are starting for the chiefs now? I bet you thought Getting Tyson Jackson was a brilliant move, dumbass! Getting Berry is like having a car that the clutch is going out, and putting on nice new shiny tires. We need to build the D-line, our secondary is not as weak as the d-line, so shut up and quit acting like an dick.:whipping1:
Getting Tyson Jackson *was* a great move. And getting Berry in the 1st is terrible only if we don't get a NT in the 2nd or 3rd. There wasn't a good enough NT to draft in the top-5.

What did you want Pioli to do? Trade down? No one wanted to trade up. Take Dan Williams? The guy went 26th (which makes me awfully curious).

If you accept Pioli's premises that (1) we have a legit LT; and (2) there was no NT worth a top-5 (or top-25) pick, then Berry was the best choice.

bbacker51
04-23-2010, 01:41 PM
Kindle today will help at OLB

whatwasthat?
04-23-2010, 01:42 PM
sergio kindle and mt cody are still on the board...along with golden tate

we have a great chance of filling a real need with our 2a pick

berry was a great pick

Diesel
04-23-2010, 02:00 PM
For you guys saying we needed a safety maybe so, but not as much as someone to stop the run. Last year our run defense was 31 second to worst, while our pass was not good it was 22 considerably higher then our run defense. We needed someone that can make tackles inside and plug gaping holes in our d-line. What we needed was a NT or a beast OLB to rush the qb so they don't have 2 minutes to throw the ball (which would help our current secondary out) or a ILB that can actually tackle.:chiefs:


Yeah and those type players are STILL on the board for our upcoming picks. There is NO Berry type player still on the board lol. Picking him was a NO BRAINER. I'm thankful we actually got great value for our pick. Berry will be a stud for KC.

matthewschiefs
04-23-2010, 02:15 PM
sergio kindle and mt cody are still on the board...along with golden tate

we have a great chance of filling a real need with our 2a pick

berry was a great pick

If we fix our lines and other needs berry will be a great pick. I just hope we can do this with whos left.

Bike
04-23-2010, 02:27 PM
If we fix our lines and other needs berry will be a great pick. I just hope we can do this with whos left.
If we get Tate at 2a (which I think we will if he's there), we will have done nothing to fix our lines with our 1st 2 picks. We could still use a couple OL, a NT, an ILB, and maybe an OLB. The most needed is a starting NT imo...

whatwasthat?
04-23-2010, 02:29 PM
If we fix our lines and other needs berry will be a great pick. I just hope we can do this with whos left.

2a. Kindle OLB, pass rush opposite hali

2b. Troup NT, possible starter...depth/rotation at nose

3. Lafell WR (or shipley), get some hands out there

4. Olsen OC, learn behind wiegmann...starting C next year

5. Johnson ILB, thumper to stuff the run

5. Black OG, move lilja to LG, waters to RG, and Black eventually takes the reigns from waters

5. Moeaki TE, pioli gets his TE, great hands

boom

Diesel
04-23-2010, 02:30 PM
For you guys saying we needed a safety maybe so, but not as much as someone to stop the run. Last year our run defense was 31 second to worst, while our pass was not good it was 22 considerably higher then our run defense. We needed someone that can make tackles inside and plug gaping holes in our d-line. What we needed was a NT or a beast OLB to rush the qb so they don't have 2 minutes to throw the ball (which would help our current secondary out) or a ILB that can actually tackle.:chiefs:


Are you serious?? You wanted to pass on an ELITE cover safety to get some front seven guys who can tackle? lol BTW not only is berry an elite talent in coverage but he will also surprise with how much wood he brings when he tackles. The draft is loaded with front seven guys who can get dirty and tackle. Hell Spikes is the perfect guy to play inside for us. Everyone blasting him for his slow forty time but I would be thrilled to get him with pick 50 then snag maybe a NT like Troup in the 3rd and that interior defense just got a lot better.

bwilliams
04-23-2010, 02:32 PM
Are you serious?? You wanted to pass on an ELITE cover safety to get some front seven guys who can tackle? lol BTW not only is berry an elite talent in coverage but he will also surprise with how much wood he brings when he tackles. The draft is loaded with front seven guys who can get dirty and tackle. Hell Spikes is the perfect guy to play inside for us. Everyone blasting him for his slow forty time but I would be thrilled to get him with pick 50 then snag maybe a NT like Troup in the 3rd and that interior defense just got a lot better.

Man, Spikes will be there in the 3rd. He might even hang around until the 4th or 5th. His draft stock has plummeted since the combine.

whatwasthat?
04-23-2010, 02:36 PM
Man, Spikes will be there in the 3rd. He might even hang around until the 4th or 5th. His draft stock has plummeted since the combine.

i would love to get spikes...i just dont see him as a pioli type guy though

Diesel
04-23-2010, 02:36 PM
yeah he might. Too many 3-4 teams now, so I wouldn't be shocked if he's gone by our 4th rounder with someone needing a 3-4 ILB. I would be stoked if we could get him in the 4th though.

Fansincebirth
04-23-2010, 03:46 PM
Spikes will be so Average in the NFL

When you look at the Youth we have at D-Line along with new coaching staff.

I would be suprised to see more than a NT picked. Edwards is a Starter he just didnt have any relief last year and was done by the middle of the 3rd Quarter. You need at least 2 if not 3 NT to rotate in the game. We got Shaun Smith, now we can pick up a NT and be very solid.

BTW the only reason we ranked that high in pass coverage last year was because they didnt have to throw against us. They were too busy killing the clock and protecting their lead. Did you watch any games last year.

SAPHOJUNKIE
04-23-2010, 05:58 PM
Troupe or Thomas will be available in the third.

the more I think about it, the more I believe that Golden Tate is the perfect player to come in.

Normally, receivers need one or two years to adjust to the pro game. So, instead of paying a Decker or Benn for a year of learning the system, we could have an immediate contributor, someone who literally has spent three years learning all of the routes, terminology, and schemes. he has been the #1 in the system as well as the #2, so he could come in and contribute wherever they want him.

I would like to see Tate and Saffold in the second, with Cam thomas in the third.

If they really feel like they need a nose tackle right now, then Tate and Joseph (not high on cody) with Veldheer or Asamoah in the third.

bwilliams
04-23-2010, 06:06 PM
Troupe or Thomas will be available in the third.

the more I think about it, the more I believe that Golden Tate is the perfect player to come in.

Normally, receivers need one or two years to adjust to the pro game. So, instead of paying a Decker or Benn for a year of learning the system, we could have an immediate contributor, someone who literally has spent three years learning all of the routes, terminology, and schemes. he has been the #1 in the system as well as the #2, so he could come in and contribute wherever they want him.

I would like to see Tate and Saffold in the second, with Cam thomas in the third.

If they really feel like they need a nose tackle right now, then Tate and Joseph (not high on cody) with Veldheer or Asamoah in the third.

Tate would be perfect for our offense. Given the way ND players are dropping though, I wouln't be surprised if he were there at 2b.

Pro_Angler
04-23-2010, 06:56 PM
For you guys saying we needed a safety maybe so, but not as much as someone to stop the run. Last year our run defense was 31 second to worst, while our pass was not good it was 22 considerably higher then our run defense. We needed someone that can make tackles inside and plug gaping holes in our d-line. What we needed was a NT or a beast OLB to rush the qb so they don't have 2 minutes to throw the ball (which would help our current secondary out) or a ILB that can actually tackle.:chiefs:


wawawawa last year i got the screw by them taking jackson...finally they get my player!!!

buffman316
04-23-2010, 06:58 PM
A little early to post this, since the draft is not over. Also, you will be eating those words when you actually see Berry play.

figcrostic
04-24-2010, 10:25 AM
2a. Kindle OLB, pass rush opposite hali

2a.RB (even though we have two top ten backs)
2b. CB (even though flowers is pretty good and carr is decent) thanks for the new corner Tony, hope he he's even 1/10 the player you are
3a. OG (to replace Waters I assume)
3b. TE (who was not supposed to be drafted)

only two left after trade
5.
5.
boom
Fixed

AussieChiefsFan
04-24-2010, 10:40 AM
A little early to post this, since the draft is not over. Also, you will be eating those words when you actually see Berry play.
rep for that

figcrostic
04-24-2010, 05:38 PM
A little early to post this, since the draft is not over. Also, you will be eating those words when you actually see Berry play.

I feel bad for berry he is a good player, but he won't have great numbers because our run defense is still gonna be so bad teams won't have to throw the ball, and when you have no pass rush,qb's get all the time in the world to find an open guy

Bike
04-24-2010, 05:41 PM
I feel bad for berry he is a good player, but he won't have great numbers because our run defense is still gonna be so bad teams won't have to throw the ball, and when you have no pass rush,qb's get all the time in the world to find an open guy

Exactly how I see it.

honda522
04-24-2010, 07:55 PM
So your saying your opinion is better than Crennel, Wiess, Haley and Pioli?

I can kinda see your misstrust with Haley, but to doubt CPW, your nuts. Can someone remind me of how mean rings they have combined?

chief31
04-24-2010, 07:58 PM
So your saying your opinion is better than Crennel, Wiess, Haley and Pioli?

I can kinda see your misstrust with Haley, but to doubt CPW, your nuts. Can someone remind me of how mean rings they have combined?

Not real sure of how many rings Bellichick earned for them.

honda522
04-24-2010, 08:00 PM
Not real sure of how many rings Bellichick earned for them.
Did you forget who called the plays for O and D?

Its not one player, nor one coach that helps win a championship, or even a single game at that.

chief31
04-24-2010, 08:03 PM
Did you forget who called the plays for O and D?

Its not one player, nor one coach that helps win a championship, or even a single game at that.
Shouold we separate them and see how they do without each other?

Oh wait, 18-1 in a Super Bowl for Bellichick. How about Crennel and Weiss?

I like the guys. But I am not "sold" on them, as bellichick really seems to be the brains behind that whole operation.

matthewschiefs
04-24-2010, 08:05 PM
Not real sure of how many rings Bellichick earned for them.

Umm how many rings does Bellichick have since they left. I am sure they helped him get those rings.

honda522
04-24-2010, 08:11 PM
Umm how many rings does Bellichick have since they left. I am sure they helped him get those rings.
This and REP!

chief31
04-24-2010, 09:08 PM
Bellichisk hasn't fallen below 10-6 since then.

By the way, how have the other guys done since leaving Bellichick?

okikcfan
04-24-2010, 09:17 PM
2008 - Games/Starts: 12/12 ... First Tennessee player to claim unanimous All-America honors since 1990 ... Led nation with 265 interception return yards, and his seven interceptions tied for tops ... Only 2008 player with interception in seven different games ... First two interceptions of season were returned for 0 and 1 yard, then had five picks for 264 yards ... Interception returns for TDs against Mississippi State (72 yards) and Vandy (45 yards) ... Also had big returns against Georgia (54 yards), South Carolina (47 yards) and Northern Illinois (46 yards) ... For career in just 26 games, owns 12 interceptions for 487 return yards and three touchdowns ... Set to enter 2009 season just 15 yards from breaking major college record (501) ... Broken interception return yardage records that had stood for combined 187 years ... Now owns records for UT season (previously stood 37 years), UT career (39 years), SEC season (52 years) and SEC career (59 years) ... 72 tackles placed him third on UT team and 18th among SEC leaders ... Led team in tackles vs. Mississippi State (10) and tied for team honors vs. UAB (7) ... Recorded first career sack against Florida ... Season-high 11 tackles against Alabama ... Joined Dan Williams as only Vols with at least three tackles in all 12 games ... Never had fewer than three tackles in game in his career ... Started every contest of his collegiate career.


Well, I Like him!!!

matthewschiefs
04-24-2010, 09:32 PM
Bellichisk hasn't fallen below 10-6 since then.

By the way, how have the other guys done since leaving Bellichick?

The other guys have not been in the same role since they left Bellichick. They were HEAD COACHES. You can not compare HEAD COACH to OC or DC. The job is not the same. This is were we are going to see if they are as good at there job as they were in NE.

Bellichick has been in the same role but has not been able to win a superbowl. You can compare head coach to head coach. He just has not won rings without them and Until he does theres going to be thought that hes not as good without them. He is a good head coach and has proven that. But he just has not won the rings.

chief31
04-24-2010, 09:46 PM
The other guys have not been in the same role since they left Bellichick. They were HEAD COACHES. You can not compare HEAD COACH to OC or DC. The job is not the same. This is were we are going to see if they are as good at there job as they were in NE.

Bellichick has been in the same role but has not been able to win a superbowl. You can compare head coach to head coach. He just has not won rings without them and Until he does theres going to be thought that hes not as good without them. He is a good head coach and has proven that. But he just has not won the rings.

With the turnover of players as well as coaches, a certain decline would be expected.

But I really am not here to make any case for Bellichick. He isn't on my team.

The point of it is that he has been successful without Weis and Crennel, while Crennel and Weis have been failures without Bellichick.

Now, I want to repeat that I like both of those guys being here, and I have alot of hope for this team based on their signings.

But I do not just accept their decisions as those of geniuses. They weill need to show me that first. And, so far, I am not seeing it.

So I will be skeptical until Shaun Smith is a run-stuffing machine and Albert is a top-notch LOT. Because there is no real evidence of that yet.

honda522
04-24-2010, 09:52 PM
Bellichisk hasn't fallen below 10-6 since then.

By the way, how have the other guys done since leaving Bellichick?
But that is easy to do. Only 2 games away from 8-8. Alot of teams have 10-6 seasons. Belicheck is by standards a great HC. But without the coaching staff helping him, they aren't as good.

chief31
04-24-2010, 10:08 PM
But that is easy to do. Only 2 games away from 8-8. Alot of teams have 10-6 seasons. Belicheck is by standards a great HC. But without the coaching staff helping him, they aren't as good.

Well, they did go 18-0 on their way to a Super Bowl. One could easily make a case that that team was as good, or better than any of the previous Patriot teams.

And, if 10-6 (as a worst record, mind you) is so easy, then what stopped Crennel and Weis from having that success? What stops the majority of NFL teams from equalling that feat? Let alone sustaining, even eclipsing it?

It most certainly is not easy.

honda522
04-24-2010, 10:12 PM
Well, they did go 18-0 on their way to a Super Bowl. One could easily make a case that that team was as good, or better than any of the previous Patriot teams.

And, if 10-6 (as a worst record, mind you) is so easy, then what stopped Crennel and Weis from having that success? What stops the majority of NFL teams from equalling that feat? Let alone sustaining, even eclipsing it?

It most certainly is not easy.
Like I think I have said, it don't matter what your season record is, only matters if you win Game 19.

That is what separates the good....from the Great.

Bike
04-24-2010, 10:21 PM
But that is easy to do. Only 2 games away from 8-8. Alot of teams have 10-6 seasons. Belicheck is by standards a great HC. But without the coaching staff helping him, they aren't as good.Belichick is the one that hires and trains all his coaches to help him achieve his goals. Hell, he hired Pioli to to get his players contracts inked.

figcrostic
04-24-2010, 10:37 PM
But that is easy to do. Only 2 games away from 8-8. Alot of teams have 10-6 seasons. Belicheck is by standards a great HC. But without the coaching staff helping him, they aren't as good.

Please if we went 8-8 next you, you all would be calling Pioli the next Jesus Christ, and worshiping at the alter.

chief31
04-24-2010, 11:01 PM
Like I think I have said, it don't matter what your season record is, only matters if you win Game 19.

That is what separates the good....from the Great.

So, what separates the good from the very good? How about the good from the pretty good? The good from the ok? The ok from the not so good?

No matter how many extra replays ESPN airs, The Super Bowl is just one game. Which of the previous Patriot teams didn't lose one game?

Believe it or not, it really does matter how many games you win.