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marloweopatchiefs
04-24-2010, 01:37 PM
You people would probably build a better team then pioli i'm sure because he does not know what he's doing. Well i for one like the picks mr pioli has drafted so far. And for that person that said herm edwards built a great team think again. Herm edwards didn't build anything except losing. The best draft ever brodie croyle. Yeah that was a great pick. At least we are not getting players like that in this draft.

jb908
04-24-2010, 01:40 PM
I agree. I am very happy with the choices in this draft. Safety and CB were two big needs. NT and LB would have been nice, but you can't get every position with 7 picks.

bwilliams
04-24-2010, 01:42 PM
You people would probably build a better team then pioli i'm sure because he does not know what he's doing. Well i for one like the picks mr pioli has drafted so far. And for that person that said herm edwards built a great team think again. Herm edwards didn't build anything except losing. The best draft ever brodie croyle. Yeah that was a great pick. At least we are not getting players like that in this draft.

As a fragile player in the 3rd round, Croyle was a terrible choice.

As a fragile player in the third round, how good a choice was Moeaki?

Vandelay
04-24-2010, 01:44 PM
I'm just at a wait and see opinion on this draft. Didn't think they would take Berry, but I don't think it's a bad pick.
Don't really understand the Mcluster pick, But I trust Pioli.

We won't know how good or bad this draft really was for a year or two.:chiefs:

charlesIII
04-24-2010, 02:29 PM
berry and asamoah were good picks evan mccluster will be decent addition but us passing on cam thomas in the 5th for another free safety was awful

dad005
04-24-2010, 03:25 PM
McCluster at 36 was a stretch to say the least. How can we pass on Sergio Kindle for a #3 receiver/return man. I think he would've been around for our late 2nd, maybe even 3rd. If not Shipley surely would have been.

Then we repeatedly kept passing on Cam Thomas...and we only drafted one lineman, who happens to be an interior lineman, which is where we actually have the most depth at right now. Albert and O'Callaghan must be much better than they appeared last season?

I was excited for Berry. When we took McCluster I was still pretty happy because he will be a playmaker for us. I questioned the Arenas pick but was satisfied with Asamoah I guess. Trading back into the 3rd round to draft injury-prone Moeaki was when I felt like the draft really started to turn. Being an Iowa Hawkeye fan and watching him for the past 4 years (5 if you add in the medical redshirt yr) he wasn't worth trading 2 of our picks in one of the deepest drafts in some time.

It's a long time til our Monday night opener, so I guess I'm willing to let these guys prove to me that I was wrong in questioning this draft, and for the record I do hope I'm wrong!

KCINNYC
04-24-2010, 03:32 PM
Thank You For This Thread.

I an optimist and I seriously get sick and tired of all the negative babbling that goes on here at Chiefs Crowd. The Draft went great. Something tells me Pioli has done more research than I have.

endzonewillie
04-24-2010, 03:35 PM
As a fragile player in the 3rd round, Croyle was a terrible choice.

As a fragile player in the third round, how good a choice was Moeaki?
Moeaki was the best pick we have behind Berry . You may not like him but I am learning to include you in the whiners club.:ninerssuck:

bwilliams
04-24-2010, 03:45 PM
Moeaki was the best pick we have behind Berry . You may not like him but I am learning to include you in the whiners club.:ninerssuck:

No offense, but your posts haven't given me a lot of confidence that you know what you're talking about. Which means that your opinon just doesn't matter to me.

endzonewillie
04-24-2010, 03:49 PM
No offense, but your posts haven't given me a lot of confidence that you know what you're talking about. Which means that your opinon just doesn't matter to me.
Nothing but offense when I say that everything you have said has left me to think your not happy as a Chief fan. Turn your smile upside down and be happy, it isn't your money Pioli is spending but, I will bet if they make the playoffs you will be first to post you never doubted Pioli the team and its draft picks.

bwilliams
04-24-2010, 03:56 PM
Nothing but offense when I say that everything you have said has left me to think your not happy as a Chief fan. Turn your smile upside down and be happy, it isn't your money Pioli is spending but, I will bet if they make the playoffs you will be first to post you never doubted Pioli the team and its draft picks.

It's my money if I pay to go to games and buy merchandise, isn't it?

I admit when I'm wrong. If we make the playoffs this season, I'll happily eat crow.

Just as, if we miss them, I expect you to admit that maybe we probably should have drafted guys who can actually play NT, RT, ILB, and OLB instead of a bunch of projects and defensive backs.

endzonewillie
04-24-2010, 04:02 PM
It's my money if I pay to go to games and buy merchandise, isn't it?

I admit when I'm wrong. If we make the playoffs this season, I'll happily eat crow.

Just as, if we miss them, I expect you to admit that maybe we probably should have drafted guys who can actually play NT, RT, ILB, and OLB instead of a bunch of projects and defensive backs.I eat crow every year when the Chiefs don't make the Superbowl. It is nothing new to me but if your looking to make a stupid childish bet forget it I don't gamble.I would prefer to see the team do well and be positive about them instead of ripping every single move that I don't understand. I would make the suggestion you try and do the same but I just don't believe you could do this. :chiefs:

bwilliams
04-24-2010, 04:10 PM
I eat crow every year when the Chiefs don't make the Superbowl. It is nothing new to me but if your looking to make a stupid childish bet forget it I don't gamble.I would prefer to see the team do well and be positive about them instead of ripping every single move that I don't understand. I would make the suggestion you try and do the same but I just don't believe you could do this. :chiefs:

I've ripped "every single move that I don't understand"? Besides the fact that I clearly understand (much better than some apparently) what the fron office is doing, I haven't ripped on most moves made this offseason.

You know when you're old enough (you're what, 12-13?) that you're buying your own tickets and merchandise, you'll probably get tired of feeling that your wasting your money because the front office is too bad at its job to fix completely obvious problems.

marloweopatchiefs
04-24-2010, 04:17 PM
Well let me ask you people something. If the chiefs start winning will you still be whining about these draft picks? Just curious

bwilliams
04-24-2010, 04:20 PM
Well let me ask you people something. If the chiefs start winning will you still be whining about these draft picks? Just curious

Nope. If these guys turn out to be good (even if we miss the playoffs), I'll admit I was wrong.

If we go 4-12 again because we didn't fix our pass rush, run defense, or pass protection, will you admit this was a disaster?

Coach
04-24-2010, 04:23 PM
I agree. I am very happy with the choices in this draft. Safety and CB were two big needs. NT and LB would have been nice, but you can't get every position with 7 picks.

It hard to fix every hole with one draft. Even if you are belichick or parcells and walk on water as a 2nd hobby.

Did this team get better on offense in the last 2 days? Yes.
Did this team get better on defense in the last 2 days?
Yes.
Did this team get better on special teams in the last 2 days?
Yes, definitely.

Could it have gotten better by making different picks? maybe.
Nobody knows what these prospects will turn out to be. Trust in Pioli. This team is headed in the right direction.

To the naysayers, I say walk away from the ledge. The Chiefs added some really good players and coaches this offseason. The arrow is finally pointing up for our Chiefs! Way up!!!!!

____________
Posted from my BlackBerry, PM me for Details

endzonewillie
04-24-2010, 04:26 PM
Well let me ask you people something. If the chiefs start winning will you still be whining about these draft picks? Just curious
I am completely delighted with the draft for the Chiefs this year. I am especially excited about Berry, McCluster and Moeaki. Win or lose they will make exciting plays and if the team gels and starts winning that is a plus. I have never tried to be anything but a Chiefs fan. I welcome all 7 of the picks to KC.:chiefs:

brish
04-24-2010, 04:27 PM
/me Throws rep all over Coach! :)

marloweopatchiefs
04-24-2010, 04:30 PM
Nope. If these guys turn out to be good (even if we miss the playoffs), I'll admit I was wrong.

If we go 4-12 again because we didn't fix our pass rush, run defense, or pass protection, will you admit this was a disaster?


For sure i will. I still like pioli though and haley. They are way better then the herm edwards/ carol peterson era.

bwilliams
04-24-2010, 04:35 PM
For sure i will. I still like pioli though and haley. They are way better then the herm edwards/ carol peterson era.

Edwards/Peterson won 31% of their games.
Haley/Pioli have won 25% of their games.

Until that Haley/Pioli number goes above the Edwards/Peterson number, I'm not sayin one's better than the other.

endzonewillie
04-24-2010, 04:38 PM
For sure i will. I still like pioli though and haley. They are way better then the herm edwards/ carol peterson era.
Agreed 100%. Rep added.

marloweopatchiefs
04-24-2010, 04:39 PM
Edwards/Peterson won 31% of their games.
Haley/Pioli have won 25% of their games.

Until that Haley/Pioli number goes above the Edwards/Peterson number, I'm not sayin one's better than the other.


You can't even compare yet. Herm edwards and carol peterson worked for 3 years together. Pioli and haley came in playing with the mess that peterson and edwards left behind. They have 1 season under there belt. You can compare the two after about 2 more seasons. What did you expect last year. The staff was working with what they had. Even I knew it would take at least 2-3 years to turn it around. Some people such as yourself have no patience.

yashi
04-24-2010, 04:39 PM
I'm very happy with this draft. I would have taken NT Cam Thomas instead of a 2nd safety, and probably would not have taken Arenas that high, but I am extremely happy with every other pick. This is a B+ draft for me.

endzonewillie
04-24-2010, 04:43 PM
You can't even compare yet. Herm edwards and carol peterson worked for 3 years go together. Pioli and haley came in playing with the mess that peterson and edwards left behind. They have 1 season under there belt. You can compare the two after about 2 more seasons. What did you expect last year. The staff was working with what they had. Even I knew it would take at least 2-3 years to turn it around. Some people such as yourself have no patience.
I agree with this. If Haley/Pioli won 25% of their games in 1 yr vs Edwards/Petersen winning 31% in 3 yrs the math still works against Edwards/Petersen. Not one team can say they went from dead last to the Superbowl in one Management and season change. It takes atleast 2 offseasons to make an effective change in player personal as well we changed our defensive and offensive schemes on the fly so to have any success is encouraging.

jpkchiefs
04-24-2010, 04:45 PM
i love the picks. we have playmakers now that this team has lacked for years. i think pioli has done a great job. we will be a very dangerous team this year. and we will be able to put points on the board

yashi
04-24-2010, 04:45 PM
Here's the difference. Edwards/Peterson started as a playoff team, and went downhill every season from there. In one season of Pioli/Haley, we already had an improvement over the previous year. Twice as many wins in fact.

bwilliams
04-24-2010, 04:49 PM
You can't even compare yet. Herm edwards and carol peterson worked for 3 years go together. Pioli and haley came in playing with the mess that peterson and edwards left behind. They have 1 season under there belt. You can compare the two after about 2 more seasons. What did you expect last year. The staff was working with what they had. Even I knew it would take at least 2-3 years to turn it around. Some people such as yourself have no patience.

Man, I'm not disagreeing that we need time to see if this work. Really, I do have plenty of patience. But here's my point:

After we lose in the Wild Card round in 2006, we blow the team up. Herm/Carl decide to build through the draft. Herm trades our best player (JA), ignores the OL, spends a number of high picks on DL (but no big men) and DB, and drafts a ton of projects. They have a ton of faith in their handpicked QB, who most teams see as questionable. Two years later, the Chiefs bottom out at 2-14, and those two are thankfully shown the door.

In 2009 and 2010, Pioli/Haley decides to blow the team up. Pioli/Haley trade our best player (TG), ignore the OL, spend a number of high picks on DL (but no big men) and DB, and draft tons of projects. They have a ton of faith in their handpicked QB, who most teams see as questionable.

Do you see where I'm going with this?

endzonewillie
04-24-2010, 04:49 PM
i love the picks. we have playmakers now that this team has lacked for years. i think pioli has done a great job. we will be a very dangerous team this year. and we will be able to put points on the board
With the defense we had last season if we could have scored 27 points a game we would have had a winning record. We did pick up 4 defensive players in this draft 2 will play one will start. We definately made our offense better so if we can score 25 points a game and keep our points allowed under 25 we will win games. Simple math and that is how most formulas are made up. On point spreads. If there is a position chart that can show that I want to see it.

marloweopatchiefs
04-24-2010, 05:03 PM
Man, I'm not disagreeing that we need time to see if this work. Really, I do have plenty of patience. But here's my point:

After we lose in the Wild Card round in 2006, we blow the team up. Herm/Carl decide to build through the draft. Herm trades our best player (JA), ignores the OL, spends a number of high picks on DL (but no big men) and DB, and drafts a ton of projects. They have a ton of faith in their handpicked QB, who most teams see as questionable. Two years later, the Chiefs bottom out at 2-14, and those two are thankfully shown the door.




In 2009 and 2010, Pioli/Haley decides to blow the team up. Pioli/Haley trade our best player (TG), ignore the OL, spend a number of high picks on DL (but no big men) and DB, and draft tons of projects. They have a ton of faith in their handpicked QB, who most teams see as questionable.

Do you see where I'm going with this?


Pioli even said it would take at least 2 to 3 years to turn the program around. I understand your point and your opinion. Doesn't mean i agree.

DC_Chiefsfan
04-24-2010, 05:21 PM
Edwards/Peterson won 31% of their games.
Haley/Pioli have won 25% of their games.

Until that Haley/Pioli number goes above the Edwards/Peterson number, I'm not sayin one's better than the other.

Yes but edwards took over the team with much better talent than when haley took over. After that 9-7 season, we were 4-12, then 2-14. Haley took over a 2-14 team. give him some credit that he won 4 freakin games. Haley is already 80x the coach that edwards was.

texaschief
04-24-2010, 06:26 PM
Yes but edwards took over the team with much better talent than when haley took over. After that 9-7 season, we were 4-12, then 2-14. Haley took over a 2-14 team. give him some credit that he won 4 freakin games. Haley is already 80x the coach that edwards was.

Wow...

This is such a grossly incorrect statement, that I just couldn't let it slide. Sorry.

chief31
04-24-2010, 07:54 PM
Moeaki was the best pick we have behind Berry . You may not like him but I am learning to include you in the whiners club.:ninerssuck:

Ya know what sucks worse than whiners? People who happily embrace poor decisions. Reminds me of so many Cubs fans.


I eat crow every year when the Chiefs don't make the Superbowl. It is nothing new to me but if your looking to make a stupid childish bet forget it I don't gamble.I would prefer to see the team do well and be positive about them instead of ripping every single move that I don't understand. I would make the suggestion you try and do the same but I just don't believe you could do this. :chiefs:

Well, if you predict The Chiefs to go to The Super Bowl every year, then logic is lost on you. You already have your mind made up about everything, right?

So, why are you out here trying to argue how reasonable this draft was, if logic has no bearing on your opinion?

okikcfan
04-24-2010, 09:37 PM
As I have said in the past, it may not be the people herm picked in the draft, it may just be herms poor coaching. A team is only as good as it's coach and staff. With everything Pioli has started so far, from Hailey on down we will look like an entirely different team. I for one felt Herm and king carl made some good choices in their last draft, but his coaching and overall outlook is what did us in. He self destructed.

honda522
04-24-2010, 10:07 PM
I don't understand what is wrong with adding depth at a kick return. We haven't one since Dante Hall. Our average starting field position was on the 17 yard line. That is terrible. What happens if we get a big kick return for 35 - 40 yards?

It boost momentum, which is a big thing in the NFL. We need that momentum.

There is no reason people should be pissed. This was a great draft. We got the best player in draft. Obviously Pioli didn't think much of Dan Williams. Other wise he would have nabbed him up...same with all the other nose tackles. And nooo...Suh wasn't a NT, he was an interior defensive lineman. He would not have fit well in a 3-4.

I suppose many wanted Suh so I could only hear everyone bi*ch and complain how he made no impact for 2 years here.

You want to see a team that drafted poorly, look at the donks. They picked TebOO in the first round. They could of had him in the second or third round. So they drafted all offensive guys in the meaningful rounds. I look forward to laughing at Denver this year when the Chiefs have a 4 or 5 game lead on them, cause McDainels is a terrible head coach and their owner is just dumb. I saw alot of dumb moves in this draft. SD traded up to get a RB that they could of had at a later time...Buffalo drafted a RB when they really need an OL and a quarter back....I don't want to hear anymore how the Chiefs and Pioli have done a terrible job, I think they picked up some amazing players this year starting with Berry and ending up with Moeki....

bwilliams
04-24-2010, 10:19 PM
As I have said in the past, it may not be the people herm picked in the draft, it may just be herms poor coaching. A team is only as good as it's coach and staff. With everything Pioli has started so far, from Hailey on down we will look like an entirely different team. I for one felt Herm and king carl made some good choices in their last draft, but his coaching and overall outlook is what did us in. He self destructed.

I think your very right in many ways. What hurt our team the most was Herm getting rid of most of our veteren leadership, include some pretty good vets. There was no one in the lockerroom or in the field to lead. Pioli/Haley have done that part right. We have a pretty good blend of savvy vets (Waters, Vrabel, Jones) and promising rookies (Dorsey, Berry, Jackson). We have field marshals and athelticism.

Where both have gone wrong is their faith in themselves to coach up certain key positions. Herm Edwards really believed he could coach up Tank Tyler, Brodie Croyle, DuJuan Morgan, Brad Cottam, and every other failed 1st, 2nd, and 3rd rounder. He overlooked the necessity of *talent* (see the idiotic cutting of veterens like Mitchell and Napo, and the trading of JA). He wanted players who would embrace his vision and style of play. He got them. They just weren't (for avery large part) great players.

Some were injured way too easily (Cottam, Croyle, Turk). Some just weren't very good (Morgan, Cottam, Tank, Page). Some have turned out (Hali, Dorsey, Bowe, Albert), but most of those aren't playing the role originally envisioned.

I think Pioli and Haley are making the same exact mistake. They are overlooking critical positions because they think they can coach up existing players (Shaun Smith, Ryan O'Callaghan). We reach for projects in the draft because our coaching staff trusts its ability to train them. They're cutting/trading vets they shouldn't cut because the vet doesn't share their vision (Pollard, TG). They're ignoring the need for *talent*.

The Pats (to whom we're necessarily comparing things) didn't do this in 2000-2008. They drafted positions of need in the first four rounds (Wilfork, Warren, Seymour, Light, Merriweather, Mankins, etc.). They traded picks if they saw a good deal (Welker, Moss, Dillon). They did have an odd love for picking TEs high, but only if their other needs were met, and only if they had two picks in the round. They *didn't* reach for guys like McCluster. If they wanted a slot receiver, they drafted one or traded for one. They didn't try to convert a RB. They didn't draft CBs high if they had even serviceable ones.

What we're doing now is not the blueprint that built the Pats. People can't pretend otherwise. Which makes me wonder whether Pioli was the equal to Belichick that everyone thought he was.

chief31
04-24-2010, 10:19 PM
I don't understand what is wrong with adding depth at a kick return. We haven't one since Dante Hall. Our average starting field position was on the 17 yard line. That is terrible. What happens if we get a big kick return for 35 - 40 yards?

I don't think anyone has said that there was something wrong with adding depth at KR. It's just a matter of prioritizing that over Full-time starting positions in areas of extreme need.

It boost momentum, which is a big thing in the NFL. We need that momentum.

There is no reason people should be pissed. This was a great draft. We got the best player in draft.

This is a big part of the problem. There is no reason for people to be pissed, because you have a high opinion of the draft?

Wouldn't that mean that you have no reason to be pissed? Others don't think it was a great draft. Others don't think we got the best player in the daft.

Obviously Pioli didn't think much of Dan Williams. Other wise he would have nabbed him up...same with all the other nose tackles. And nooo...Suh wasn't a NT, he was an interior defensive lineman. He would not have fit well in a 3-4.

I suppose many wanted Suh so I could only hear everyone bi*ch and complain how he made no impact for 2 years here.

I have not seen a single mention of Suh since he was drafted before we had a chance to pick. But, just as you are assuming that Suh would be "no impact for two years", maybe others feel that way about the players we got. Idf there is any logic in thinking that Suh was gonna be a no impact guy, then the same logic is perfectly applicable to any player in this draft.

You want to see a team that drafted poorly, look at the donks. They picked TebOO in the first round. They could of had him in the second or third round. So they drafted all offensive guys in the meaningful rounds. I look forward to laughing at Denver this year when the Chiefs have a 4 or 5 game lead on them, cause McDainels is a terrible head coach and their owner is just dumb. I saw alot of dumb moves in this draft. SD traded up to get a RB that they could of had at a later time...Buffalo drafted a RB when they really need an OL and a quarter back....I don't want to hear anymore how the Chiefs and Pioli have done a terrible job, I think they picked up some amazing players this year starting with Berry and ending up with Moeki....

I think you are just willing to accept anything that they might have done in the draft. Because the positions that they selected are the positions needed by a successful team that is looking for "final pieces" to their puzzle, instead of foundation players.

And we were, most definitely, not so good, at 4-12, to be looking for those "final pieces".

honda522
04-24-2010, 10:25 PM
So what is the problem then?

You can only go so far in the draft. How about we develop some of the players we have? Maybe Crennel could work the DL to the bone.

Maybe Charlie Wiess can help Cassel be more comfortable. Maybe will be better this year, no Gunther, no Haley BS'ing his way through the year, firing coaches 2 games before the season.

No one should be disappointing. Almost everyone wanted Berry. And we got him. I would given EVERY pick to get him.

chief31
04-24-2010, 10:30 PM
So what is the problem then?

You can only go so far in the draft. How about we develop some of the players we have? Maybe Crennel could work the DL to the bone.

Maybe Charlie Wiess can help Cassel be more comfortable. Maybe will be better this year, no Gunther, no Haley BS'ing his way through the year, firing coaches 2 games before the season.

No one should be disappointing. Almost everyone wanted Berry. And we got him. I would given EVERY pick to get him.

The problem is that most of us feel that adding talent, instead of just "maybe genius" was needed.

Maybe they can "coach-up" the sub-par players that have been failing for the past couple of seasons. But "probably" not.

There is a limit to how much you can get out of a player with limited skill. Most people feel like more skill was needed to be able to coach them to a decent level of play.

But, what we have, in areas of huge deficiency, are the same, or equal player, expecting the coaching to not only be good, but miraculous, and take all of our major weak-spots, and turn them into strength, with the same weak players.

bwilliams
04-24-2010, 10:31 PM
I don't understand what is wrong with adding depth at a kick return. We haven't one since Dante Hall. Our average starting field position was on the 17 yard line. That is terrible. What happens if we get a big kick return for 35 - 40 yards?

It boost momentum, which is a big thing in the NFL. We need that momentum.

There is no reason people should be pissed. This was a great draft. We got the best player in draft. Obviously Pioli didn't think much of Dan Williams. Other wise he would have nabbed him up...same with all the other nose tackles. And nooo...Suh wasn't a NT, he was an interior defensive lineman. He would not have fit well in a 3-4.

I suppose many wanted Suh so I could only hear everyone bi*ch and complain how he made no impact for 2 years here.

You want to see a team that drafted poorly, look at the donks. They picked TebOO in the first round. They could of had him in the second or third round. So they drafted all offensive guys in the meaningful rounds. I look forward to laughing at Denver this year when the Chiefs have a 4 or 5 game lead on them, cause McDainels is a terrible head coach and their owner is just dumb. I saw alot of dumb moves in this draft. SD traded up to get a RB that they could of had at a later time...Buffalo drafted a RB when they really need an OL and a quarter back....I don't want to hear anymore how the Chiefs and Pioli have done a terrible job, I think they picked up some amazing players this year starting with Berry and ending up with Moeki....

OK, in order:

1. There's absolutely nothing wrong with boosting your KR. There's a great number of things wrong with boosting your KR when you don't have legitimate starting RTs and NTs. Wouldn't it be smarter to take a project KR in the 5th, and take a starting OLB at the top of the 2nd?

2. I agree that the Berry pick is a very defensible one if you think we're set at LT and you don't like Williams. Truthfully, I'd have rather had McClain or JPP than Berry, simply because I don't think we every start winning games until we fix our pass rush and run defense. But Berry is a good first pick if you address those problems in the 2nd or 3rd. We didn't.

3. Do you see the irony of mocking Buffalo for taking a RB when they needed an OT? Do you not realize that's exactly what we did at 2a? Also, Matthews doesn't drop past the Texans at 20. The Chargers made a smart move trading up. He's LT-lite in his abilities to run, catch, and block. And they have the luxury of trading up because they're set at almost all of their other positions! And while Denver wasted that Tebow pick, the rest of their draft is solid. They fixed their DL (including NT!) in free agency, so they felt they could goof around.

I just don't understand why anyone is supporting this draft. We're not going to be FA players, and building a team with UDFAs got us to 2-14 in 2008. We have one of the worst OLs and front sevens in the NFL. We could have fixed a lot of that, and we didn't do that Pioli/Haley could have fun drafting project players.

bwilliams
04-24-2010, 10:33 PM
So what is the problem then?

You can only go so far in the draft. How about we develop some of the players we have? Maybe Crennel could work the DL to the bone.

Maybe Charlie Wiess can help Cassel be more comfortable. Maybe will be better this year, no Gunther, no Haley BS'ing his way through the year, firing coaches 2 games before the season.

No one should be disappointing. Almost everyone wanted Berry. And we got him. I would given EVERY pick to get him.

OK, here's the way to solve this. Why do you think we were so bad in 2009? Do you really believe we lost 12 games (most by sizeable margins) because of our free safety play?

Bike
04-24-2010, 10:34 PM
So what is the problem then?

You can only go so far in the draft. How about we develop some of the players we have? Maybe Crennel could work the DL to the bone.

Maybe Charlie Wiess can help Cassel be more comfortable. Maybe will be better this year, no Gunther, no Haley BS'ing his way through the year, firing coaches 2 games before the season.

No one should be disappointing. Almost everyone wanted Berry. And we got him. I would given EVERY pick to get him.
The only problem with the draft I see is that we didn't address our 2 biggest needs: stopping the run and pressuring the qb...

honda522
04-24-2010, 10:39 PM
OK, here's the way to solve this. Why do you think we were so bad in 2009? Do you really believe we lost 12 games (most by sizeable margins) because of our free safety play?
Cause you couldn't stop the deep pass. So what if a running back gains 5 yards? So what if a WR makes an 8 yard catch. Most of those games we were up or tie, or within a win. You can't let a running back run for 25 yards on ANY down. And you can't...CAN'T let a receiver slip away on 3rd and long. Dallas, the perfect example of a winnable game. Lost because Carr couldn't cover or tackle...and they saftey didn't make the stop. That is what a safety is there for. Mike Brown was slow, and didn't understand pursuit.

Saftey is a big part of this team. Yes, we need a DL. But your going to fire 2 guys you just hired?

bwilliams
04-24-2010, 10:44 PM
Cause you couldn't stop the deep pass. So what if a running back gains 5 yards? So what if a WR makes an 8 yard catch. Most of those games we were up or tie, or within a win. You can't let a running back run for 25 yards on ANY down. And you can't...CAN'T let a receiver slip away on 3rd and long. Dallas, the perfect example of a winnable game. Lost because Carr couldn't cover or tackle...and they saftey didn't make the stop. That is what a safety is there for. Mike Brown was slow, and didn't understand pursuit.

Saftey is a big part of this team. Yes, we need a DL. But your going to fire 2 guys you just hired?

OK. This is as simple as I can say it. A team that can rush for 5 YPC or that can average 8 yards per pass attempt will win 100% of the games it plays, unless the opposing team can do the same on offense. There is no exception to this.

If you want to believe otherwise, knock yourself out. But the facts don't back you up.

Bike
04-24-2010, 11:05 PM
Cause you couldn't stop the deep pass. So what if a running back gains 5 yards? So what if a WR makes an 8 yard catch. Most of those games we were up or tie, or within a win. You can't let a running back run for 25 yards on ANY down. And you can't...CAN'T let a receiver slip away on 3rd and long. Dallas, the perfect example of a winnable game. Lost because Carr couldn't cover or tackle...and they saftey didn't make the stop. That is what a safety is there for. Mike Brown was slow, and didn't understand pursuit.

Saftey is a big part of this team. Yes, we need a DL. But your going to fire 2 guys you just hired?
You HAVE to be able to stuff the run at the line of scrimmage. If you can't do that, you won't win. Safety has ZERO to do with that. He can certainly assist - but the d-line has to make the initial stop - and hopefully the tackle. If the D-line can't do this, the ball will be run down our throats and are safeties will be forced to play up - leaving wide open passing routes for huge gains. It all starts with the D-line, and I dare say, the NT. Which - BTW - we decided not to address in this years draft...

bwilliams
04-24-2010, 11:12 PM
You HAVE to be able to stuff the run at the line of scrimmage. If you can't do that, you won't win. Safety has ZERO to do with that. He can certainly assist - but the d-line has to make the initial stop - and hopefully the tackle. If the D-line can't do this, the ball will be run down our throats and are safeties will be forced to play up - leaving wide open passing routes for huge gains. It all starts with the D-line, and I dare say, the NT. Which - BTW - we decided not to address in this years draft...

I wondered why people don't understand. That is the reason. They think that a team that can stop the long ball will win games. They don't understand that most teams would prefer to run the ball 50 times a game and control the clock if they could get away with it.

texaschief
04-24-2010, 11:33 PM
You HAVE to be able to stuff the run at the line of scrimmage. If you can't do that, you won't win. Safety has ZERO to do with that. He can certainly assist - but the d-line has to make the initial stop - and hopefully the tackle. If the D-line can't do this, the ball will be run down our throats and are safeties will be forced to play up - leaving wide open passing routes for huge gains. It all starts with the D-line, and I dare say, the NT. Which - BTW - we decided not to address in this years draft...

Yes, the D-line has a lot to do with stopping the run, but in a 3-4, the primary run-stoppers are the linebackers. The NT and the Linebackers should've been priority #1 in this draft and we got nothing. That's pretty pathetic.

marloweopatchiefs
04-24-2010, 11:53 PM
Ok so when kc is winning i hope all the people who didn't like are draft picks are here.

chief31
04-25-2010, 12:04 AM
Ok so when kc is winning i hope all the people who didn't like are draft picks are here.

I will be here. Just like after each of the past three drafts.

Bike
04-25-2010, 12:28 AM
Ok so when kc is winning i hope all the people who didn't like are draft picks are here.
I ain't going nowhere - win or lose.

Coach
04-25-2010, 01:49 PM
OK, here's the way to solve this. Why do you think we were so bad in 2009? Do you really believe we lost 12 games (most by sizeable margins) because of our free safety play?


This is a great point and exactly why I didn't want a Safety taken with our first pick.

I still think Safety was a ned on this team, so I am OK with the pick but would have preferred a NT or LB taken with the pick. I think the 2010 Chiefs defense will come down to 3 major people:
Romeo Crennel - Can he get more out the existing guys we have? Jackson, Hali, Johnson, Dorsey are all 1st round draft picks.
Derrick Johnson - Can he finally become the LB that he was drafted to be?
Shaun Smith - Can he become a legit NT for the Chiefs?

I like the chances of Crennel and DJ. Not so much on Smith. Just my opinion.

Bike
04-25-2010, 02:05 PM
This is a great point and exactly why I didn't want a Safety taken with our first pick.

I still think Safety was a ned on this team, so I am OK with the pick but would have preferred a NT or LB taken with the pick. I think the 2010 Chiefs defense will come down to 3 major people:
Romeo Crennel - Can he get more out the existing guys we have? Jackson, Hali, Johnson, Dorsey are all 1st round draft picks.
Derrick Johnson - Can he finally become the LB that he was drafted to be?
Shaun Smith - Can he become a legit NT for the Chiefs?

I like the chances of Crennel and DJ. Not so much on Smith. Just my opinion.
I'm with you. My concern with Smith is obviously his history - being released by 7 teams in 7 years. And his size. But Crennel knows him and coached him, so we'll see.
I'm getting tired of sundays without a Chiefs game. I'm ready for the season to start...

bwilliams
04-25-2010, 02:50 PM
This is a great point and exactly why I didn't want a Safety taken with our first pick.

I still think Safety was a ned on this team, so I am OK with the pick but would have preferred a NT or LB taken with the pick. I think the 2010 Chiefs defense will come down to 3 major people:
Romeo Crennel - Can he get more out the existing guys we have? Jackson, Hali, Johnson, Dorsey are all 1st round draft picks.
Derrick Johnson - Can he finally become the LB that he was drafted to be?
Shaun Smith - Can he become a legit NT for the Chiefs?

I like the chances of Crennel and DJ. Not so much on Smith. Just my opinion.

Here's the thing. I think Romeo Crennel will be a good-to-excellent DC for us. I just have no idea how he's going to stop the run without continually sticking eight in the box, and I have no idea how he plans to get to the passer without continuously blitzing. If we do either of those, I think we'll get killed in the intermediate passing game. If we don't I think we get gouged on the ground. Somebody, please tell me why I'm wrong! Please, tell me how we're going to stop the run with no true ILBs or NT!

I don't know about DJ. I don't know if he's tough enough to be a good ILB against the run, and I don't think he's big enough to be a legit OLB. The man just seems built to be a weakside 4-3 LB. He'll be great to cycle in at ILB on passing downs, but I just don't think he's going to be an everydown LB for us.

I really like the signing of Smith. I think he'd be an excellent backup/rotation guy if we got a mammoth two-down NT like Cody or Wilfork. He's mean, about the right size (a little light and not as strong as you want, but very serviceable), and he did OK in Crennel's defense in Cleveland. But it terrifies me that this is our opening day NT. That we're expecting him to be a three-down NT when he's never been able to be that in the NFL! I mean, even in his best years (Cleveland, 2007-2008) his teams were near the bottom of the league in run defense (27th and 28th, respectively). Why do people think that, with the same coach as he had there (Crennel), he's going to be magically better?

matthewschiefs
04-25-2010, 02:51 PM
I'm with you. My concern with Smith is obviously his history - being released by 7 teams in 7 years. And his size. But Crennel knows him and coached him, so we'll see.
I'm getting tired of sundays without a Chiefs game. I'm ready for the season to start...

I think we all are getting sick of being without our chiefs thats why we are on this site everyday. Can't wait for the season GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!