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texaschief
05-03-2010, 07:55 PM
Sorry to ESPN and Bill Barnwell for taking this from their "Insider's" page, but this is EXACTLY how I feel. The Chiefs are still shopping for essentials like Milk and Eggs and daddy goes out and buys a nice $200 bottle of wine to go with the saltine crackers we'll be having for dinner.


Take it away, Bill...

There are two things we know for sure about the Chiefs and their 3-4 defense: You need a very good nose tackle to succeed in the NFL while playing a 3-4 scheme, and the Chiefs don't have one. Veteran Ron Edwards is a stopgap, and while he's game to try, he just can't handle the responsibilities that an excellent nose tackle needs to take care of so that the linebackers behind him can make plays.

Another thing we know is that a good nose tackle is hard to find. When teams get one, they tend to hold onto them until they either get hurt or fall out of favor with the organization -- think about the careers of Jamal Williams in San Diego or Kris Jenkins in Carolina as reasonable examples.

So, with three of the first 50 picks in the draft, how did a team that ranked 31st in run defense DVOA a year ago fail to upgrade its front seven? Taking Eric Berry will help things, but the Chiefs' two second-round picks were a running back (Dexter McCluster) they plan on converting to wide receiver, and a cornerback (Javier Arenas) who will play behind (as their #3 CB in nickel packages.)

Meanwhile, who was left on the board for each of those picks? Mammoth Alabama lineman Terrence Cody. At 354 pounds, Cody would have been the ideal two-gap space-filler the Chiefs need to clog running lanes and create opportunities for defensive playmakers like, coincidentally, Eric Berry. Instead, the Chiefs passed on him and Cody went to Baltimore, where he'll help Haloti Ngata create those opportunities for Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs. Oh boy.
***************************

The McCluster pick was ok. The offense definitely needed more weapons. It's the Arenas pick that pisses me off. Pioli and Haley decided to revamp the entire defense into a 3-4 scheme. Fine. But you'd think that after 2 free agency periods and 2 drafts that they'd find the cornerstone piece of the 3-4 in a good NT. Building a 3-4 defense without a good NT is like implementing the wild-cat offense as your primary offense and having Jamarcus Russell at QB... IT'S NOT GONNA WORK!!

Even later, the Chiefs had a chance at taking another NT in the 4th with Cam Thomas...however, they decide to trade up and select an oft injured TE who is essentially going the be the #3 TE on the roster.

If Glenn Dorsey wasn't good enough last season to be a NT, why would he be good enough this year? If the Chiefs DO move him inside, who takes over at DE? The Chiefs NEEDED help at 3 of 4 major positions on defense and only filled 1. ILB, NT or DE, and Safety aren't complimentary defensive positions like a nickel CB is. If you build a defense and had your choice of a sub-par NT or sub-par Nickel CB, the smart person would pick the better NT over the NCB.

If you're good in the middle, your team is greatly improved. It's the same in nearly EVERY sport. It's MUCH easier to build around a great Center or PF in basketball than it is a great SG, SF or PG. In baseball, if your team is performing at above average to great at Catcher, SS, 2B, and CF, your team defense will be MUCH better than if you were above-average to great at LF, RF, 3B, and 1B.

If you look at the Chiefs, it's no coincidence that they have had a poor record the last few years because they've been below average up the middle. Their QB has been below average since 2006. Their Center hasn't been average since Weigman left. Their DTs have been HORRID due to either talent or inexperience. The last ILB who performed at an average level for the Chiefs was Kawika Mitchell, and their Safeties haven't performed any higher than average... and that's being generous.

So, our middle:
QB: CHECK- I thought Pioli pulled a GREAT deal getting Cassel (AND Vrabel) for just a 2nd round pick last year.

C: REQUIRED- Weigman COULD be better than Niswanger, but at his age, he's definitely not someone we can build with. He's a stop-gap AT BEST.

NT: REQUIRED- Neither Ron Edwards nor Glenn Dorsey is the answer at NT for the Chiefs. Again, a 3-4 defense is primarily built around a NT and 2 off-seasons since Pioli's arrival and the Chiefs' switch to the 3-4, we STILL don't have one...

ILB: REQUIRED- For whatever reason, Haley won't play Derrick Johnson. Neither Cory Mays, Jevon Belcher, nor Demarrio Williams are the answer for the Chiefs at the ILB position. I think they've got ONE ILB on their roster who the Chiefs could build around but I doubt very seriously that the Chiefs will keep DJ after this season.

Safety: Check- The Eric Berry pick was a good pick. I think they could've found another safety with 2B that would have been serviceable, but Berry COULD have an Ed Reed/Troy Polamalu affect for the Chiefs' defense. I think Berry and Page are still going to have trouble in the secondary this season because the Chiefs did NOTHING with their front 7 to help their secondary. We're still going to rank near the bottom in sacks and rushing yards allowed because we don't have a NT or ILBs. When a team can run at will, that's going to do nothing but open up the passing game. Berry was a good pick. However, the Chiefs have failed AGAIN this season to improve their defense of any consequence. But, even if Eric Berry can play at the level of an Ed Reed or Polamalu, you have to remember that those guys were able to roam and make plays because they had guys like Casey Hampton, Tony Saregusa, Haloti Ngata, Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, Adalius Thomas, Larry Foote, and James Harrison performing in front of them. The Chiefs don't have NTs and LBs of that caliber on this roster. So, until they get those pieces in place, expect Berry and the rest of the secondary to have a tough time.

Three7s
05-03-2010, 08:03 PM
100% on the dot, I'm still pissed about picking Arenas.

chief31
05-03-2010, 08:16 PM
Agreed.

Not that I think any of the players we picked will be bad. Just that we haven't improved on some of our biggest problems from, not only last season, but for several seasons now.

wichitaj
05-03-2010, 09:42 PM
i like wine

nychiefsfan58
05-03-2010, 10:04 PM
go chiefs baby

hometeam
05-03-2010, 10:18 PM
we should have picked up cam thomas in the 5th round :(

nychiefsfan58
05-03-2010, 10:30 PM
we improved on off. def. spec teams and coaching

nychiefsfan58
05-03-2010, 10:32 PM
we improved on all aspects i think

nychiefsfan58
05-03-2010, 10:36 PM
no one here either??

nychiefsfan58
05-03-2010, 10:39 PM
this sucks

NWA Chief
05-03-2010, 10:47 PM
We didn't pick up an OLB in the free agency so they had to pick up one in the draft. I am liking the Arenas pick more and more.

Yes I would've loved a DT, but we didn't get one. Gotta live with it, Cody wouldn't have seen the field for a long time because of his lack of work ethic. Wouldn't have made it through Haley's conditioning and would've been in the doghouse.

I wished we woulda got one of the MANY ILBs. The thing is, we had a chance in the draft and free agency but we didn't get anyone. This happened for a reason. I'm not saying that noone was good enough to be in KC because that's not the case.

I think a ton of ILBs were overdrafted and Pioli didn't reach like he did last year. Free agents are out there for a reason:
1) They have terrible attitudes, which doesn't fit the "right 53"
2) They were expendable because someone was better than them. Now most teams don't have backups that are legit starters but there is a rare occasion.

I don't like the DT position but we had no chance at a DT that could play immediately. Next year we will have a very good one......remember that.

Ryfo18
05-04-2010, 12:02 AM
I think it's a good point regarding the nose tackle. The big thing is that it's tough to fill so many positions that have holes in 1 offseason though. NT didn't get filled this year, but I thought overall the draft was great at filling some of the holes we do have.

I've seen it a couple times, I can't really validate it because I don't know too much college football, but next year is supposed to be fairly nose tackle heavy. I definitely think this position will be #1 priority next year.

honda522
05-04-2010, 12:29 AM
Seriously. Your still doing this? You, use to be a decent poster. Now your just an angry internet dude.

bwilliams
05-04-2010, 12:39 AM
It amazes me that anyone defends this offseason. As it currently sits, we have the worst RT, NT, and ILBs in the NFL. The only positions at which we have top-15 players are RB, CB, FS (maybe), K, P, ROLB (maybe), and LG (maybe). At best, we upgraded our FS, 3WR, 3CB, RG, and TE positions in the draft, none of which are terribly important compared to NT, DE/OLB, OT, 1WR, or QB.

I don't understand why people think we're going to do better this year than last. A couple retread coordinators who were fired from their last jobs do not equal wins. Last year, we lost games because we couldn't stop the run, pressure the QB, or protect our QB. What's changed?

Ryfo18
05-04-2010, 01:02 AM
It amazes me that anyone defends this offseason. As it currently sits, we have the worst RT, NT, and ILBs in the NFL. The only positions at which we have top-15 players are RB, CB, FS (maybe), K, P, ROLB (maybe), and LG (maybe). At best, we upgraded our FS, 3WR, 3CB, RG, and TE positions in the draft, none of which are terribly important compared to NT, DE/OLB, OT, 1WR, or QB.

I don't understand why people think we're going to do better this year than last. A couple retread coordinators who were fired from their last jobs do not equal wins. Last year, we lost games because we couldn't stop the run, pressure the QB, or protect our QB. What's changed?

You're making it sound as if the upgrades aren't at relevant positions. The upgrade nickel corner also extends to KR/PR. Arenas taking one to the house can completely change a game. The slot upgrade will also be huge. So many guys were put in that position last year that simply could not catch the ball or get open. Having a guy in there that is quick and can hopefully catch (it's yet to be seen) makes for an excellent option on every down to pick up a good chunk of yards and hopefully run after the catch.

I won't call TE an upgrade, I don't know a whole lot about Moeaki other than he can catch. Again, another weapon for Cassel. The TE position was also pretty useless in their passing game last year.

I think considering all the moves to the Oline in the offseason, it's gonna be hard for Cassel not to improve. He's gonna get some extra time, which he hopefully won't need with a few more weapons of offense. The OL was great the last 8 games of last year. That's something to build off of as well. Everyone kind of ignores that the OL was greatly improved over the last half of the season. We added a couple of upgrades as well, what's not to like?

Dwayne Bowe is still out for a verdict. It's really a make or break year for him. If he can be that #1 WR guy (which he definitely has the potential), it's gonna do a lot for the receiving corps as a whole b/c he's going to demand a lot of attention from the secondary.

Regardless, I think this is going to be an offense and special teams that is tough to stop. Charles and McCluster will have the ability to break off a huge play at any point in the game (Charles had 2 less 40+ yd runs (5) than Chris Johnson (7) in about half the games). If Bowe can get it going, and Chambers can play at the level he did last year, there's plenty to like in the offensive side.

The defensive side of the ball is another story. You're right, we didn't do a lot to upgrade. But what can you expect of a team with holes just about everywhere? It's about impossible to address everything in 1 offseason. The defensive upgrades will definitely come next year in FA and the draft. As it is now, there's definitely the potential to win anywhere from 6 to 10 games this year. Grab a NT in a NT heavy draft next year and and ILB, we're already improving the defense.

By the way, calling them "retread coordinators" (did you mean retard?) doesn't do them justice. They were not the best head coaches, but they're proven at being great coordinators offensively and defensively. I'm excited to see what they can bring to the team. :chiefs:

matthewschiefs
05-04-2010, 01:16 AM
It amazes me that anyone defends this offseason. As it currently sits, we have the worst RT, NT, and ILBs in the NFL. The only positions at which we have top-15 players are RB, CB, FS (maybe), K, P, ROLB (maybe), and LG (maybe). At best, we upgraded our FS, 3WR, 3CB, RG, and TE positions in the draft, none of which are terribly important compared to NT, DE/OLB, OT, 1WR, or QB.

I don't understand why people think we're going to do better this year than last. A couple retread coordinators who were fired from their last jobs do not equal wins. Last year, we lost games because we couldn't stop the run, pressure the QB, or protect our QB. What's changed?

Can you really say that the past few off seasons have been better then this one. You refuse to mention that we made a HUGE upgrade in the coaching staff. Just becuse they were not good head coaches. They are not being asked to be head coaches now. They have superbowl rings at there current jobs. That WILL help the current players that we have. Dorsey and Jackson will both improve as they gain more and more playing time. Not to mention that things are diffrent this year then last.

Haley is not going to have to spend most of camp this season just getting guys into shape. The former coach of this team let guys play out of shape and spoiled them. Haley had to fight most of last season to get them into shape so they can play at there best all while trying to put in a new offense and build a coaching staff. Things are better for this team. We may not have got the Start players but we are better. Give it time and let this team prove what they can do or what they can not do before you doom this team for this season.

Three7s
05-04-2010, 02:33 AM
Seriously, enough with giving Arenas any value at all. KR/PR, wooooo, call in the press! Seriously, that is the kind of pick that you take in the 4th round AT THE HIGHEST!

How people still defend it is incredible.

texaschief
05-04-2010, 02:58 AM
You're making it sound as if the upgrades aren't at relevant positions. The upgrade nickel corner also extends to KR/PR. Arenas taking one to the house can completely change a game. The slot upgrade will also be huge. So many guys were put in that position last year that simply could not catch the ball or get open. Having a guy in there that is quick and can hopefully catch (it's yet to be seen) makes for an excellent option on every down to pick up a good chunk of yards and hopefully run after the catch.

I didn't say we didn't upgrade at those positions. But you can find a PR as an undrafted FA. You don't NEED one in the 2nd round. However, you NEED a NT if you want to play at 3-4 defense. A good NCB is a luxury the Chiefs didn't NEED at this point. Also, in order for the Chiefs to utilize Arenas as a PR, the defense would have to stop someone... you're not going to do that with below average players in the middle of your defense.


The defensive side of the ball is another story. You're right, we didn't do a lot to upgrade. But what can you expect of a team with holes just about everywhere? It's about impossible to address everything in 1 offseason. The defensive upgrades will definitely come next year in FA and the draft. As it is now, there's definitely the potential to win anywhere from 6 to 10 games this year. Grab a NT in a NT heavy draft next year and and ILB, we're already improving the defense.

It's amazing. I heard this EXACT same argument made last season. Except, it HASN'T BEEN only ONE off season. Also, everyone and their mother KNEW what holes were priorities for this Chiefs team coming out of last season and the only position they filled was the Safety spot. That's TWO free agent periods and TWO drafts. When changing your defensive scheme, you have to fill the CORE positions which you will build your ENTIRE defense around. Last year, we got our 3-4 DE in TJ. This year, we got Berry. GREAT!! What's so hard about getting a NT and at least 1 more ILB with the other 6 picks they had in the first 3 rounds? 1 of those picks got us Matt Cassel and Vrabel. So, 5 picks... instead, we have:

3rd string DE Magee
NCB Arenas
slot receiver McCluster
4th string OG Asomoah
3rd string TE Moeaki

What tard thinks those positions are more important than a starting ILB or NT to build a 3-4 defense around?

By the way, calling them "retread coordinators" (did you mean retard?) doesn't do them justice. They were not the best head coaches, but they're proven at being great coordinators offensively and defensively. I'm excited to see what they can bring to the team. :chiefs:

The coaching SHOULD be better if Haley gets out of the way and lets them do what they do best.


Seriously. Your still doing this? You, use to be a decent poster. Now your just an angry internet dude.

Yes, I AM angry. When the Chiefs hired Pioli, everyone on here automatically bought that he was the guy pulling the strings in NE. Everyone thought he'd have this great plan to implement a new offense and defense. I just wanted to see that he knew what he was doing. The problem is that he wasn't a GREAT drafter in NE and most of the impact players NE brought in were free agents. Haley was ridiculously bad last year as a head coach. Yet, there are people like you who follow blindly and think these guys walk on water. It's pathetic really. Mainly because the above average to great moves these guys have made are tough to find.

You can like the flashy picks of McCluster and Arenas all you want. There's little doubt that they'll make some great plays this year and beyond. But I promise I won't come on this board and tell you "I told you so" when we're at the bottom of league in nearly EVERY defensive statistical category and we're picking in the top ten, yet again.

The "Patriot Way" isn't built on flashy players like Randy Moss and Wes Welker. It's built on top 10 defenses that can stop offenses when it matters. Can you HONESTLY say you think the Chiefs are capable of being even above average defensively this season?

Just in case you missed it... the Chiefs were either 31st or dead last in the league on defense. If you're NOT angry that they didn't upgrade their front 7 AT ALL through free agency NOR the draft, there's something wrong.

You can call me whatever you want, but I'm right.

tenacious
05-04-2010, 03:12 AM
Bottom line is this entire board, combined, doesn't know half as much as Pioli knows about putting together a Superbowl winning team. It sounds cliche, but seriously, trust the process. I bet we get our franchise NT next year.

texaschief
05-04-2010, 03:22 AM
Bottom line is this entire board, combined, doesn't know half as much as Pioli knows about putting together a Superbowl winning team. It sounds cliche, but seriously, trust the process. I bet we get our franchise NT next year.

Pioli doesn't know much about it either. The Patriots were built before homeboy showed up. He just happened to bring in Tom Brady and suddenly he's some kind of "guru." There's 4 or 5 people on this board who team up and give the Chiefs' front office a run for their money. You're new and don't know this board.

KCINNYC
05-04-2010, 03:39 AM
Pioli doesn't know much about it either. The Patriots were built before homeboy showed up. He just happened to bring in Tom Brady and suddenly he's some kind of "guru." There's 4 or 5 people on this board who team up and give the Chiefs' front office a run for their money. You're new and don't know this board.


Are you really saying what I think you are saying, that you and a couple of other posters should be running the Front Office or could be doing a better job?

Seriously? Seriously. Seriously?
Ha ha hah ahahahahahahahah I mean, wow. Seriously?

WRONG.

70 chiefsfan70
05-04-2010, 09:33 AM
:chiefs: First of all I would like to add, I to would love to have seen an elete NT acquired in this offseason, but this has not happened because there has not been one avaitable,(not by trade or draft) that would have upgraded without a doubt.

I like most of the draft, but didnt not care for the TE pick, however if he stays healthy he will prove to be a great choice.
I really wanted an ILB for 1 of these and a NT prospect for the other. But I trust the GM, and the coaching staff, you know, the ones with all the superbowl rings.

The cheifs were a better team then there record last year, we could have easily won 3 maybe 4 more games. The playcalling was just plain horrible, due to no OC (problem solved). We lost games in the 4th Quarter due to interference calls and undefended long balls, I feel that problem is solved. Our DL is much better because of new DC and strength conditioning and also playing together longer. Dorsey has not played to his expectations but expect that to change, Defensive linemen take several years to develope, and this is his year. The corner spot is another big upgrade this year.We now have blitzing power unlike a year ago.Oh and BTW he comes with a bonus, Our return game will rock!!!!

Our OL is upgraded as well (not great but better). Clearly our weakest link is the QB, but I feel he will be better as well, With the new speed and great hands in Wr and the Te positision, also another year of experience Cassel should be much better.

I choose to believe!:D :D :D
Go CHIEFS!!:chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs: 8 wins and 8 losses easy, But very likely 9 wins! (like it or not they will win games they would have lost last year!)

Canada
05-04-2010, 10:36 AM
So who is the franchise NFL ready NT that we passed on? I know people are quick to point out the problem...whats the solution? Who's the guy eveyone wanted? The only mention of any solution I have heard was Cody. The soon to bee 400lbs again Terrence Cody? No thanks. Complain all you like but at least offer up a solution to the problem. You aren't making headlines with the fact that we don't have a great NT.

reded
05-04-2010, 12:15 PM
Maybe we could wait and see how the season goes before making a determination on whether the offseason was a bust?

matthewschiefs
05-04-2010, 12:28 PM
Pioli doesn't know much about it either. The Patriots were built before homeboy showed up. He just happened to bring in Tom Brady and suddenly he's some kind of "guru." There's 4 or 5 people on this board who team up and give the Chiefs' front office a run for their money. You're new and don't know this board.

The pats have Many more guys who were not thought to be much the role players that have been pretty good besides brady. Wes welker anyone.

I think people need to go back and look at things with the pats. People thought we would bringing all the stars that not how the pats worked. GIVE IT TIME! Let the season get here and if the chiefs dont look much better then come on and get pissed about it. But GIVE IT A CHANCE.

Canada
05-04-2010, 12:30 PM
The pats have Many more guys who were not thought to be much the role players that have been pretty good besides brady. Wes welker anyone.

I think people need to go back and look at things with the pats. People thought we would bringing all the stars that not how the pats worked. GIVE IT TIME! Let the season get here and if the chiefs dont look much better then come on and get pissed about it. But GIVE IT A CHANCE.

Exactly, the werent superstars until they played with the Pats for a while. That team made players great and Im hopin that is what we have going on now in KC!! :bananen_smilies046:

diehardkcfan
05-04-2010, 12:40 PM
Pioli doesn't know much about it either. The Patriots were built before homeboy showed up. He just happened to bring in Tom Brady and suddenly he's some kind of "guru." There's 4 or 5 people on this board who team up and give the Chiefs' front office a run for their money. You're new and don't know this board.

Hahahahahaha there is no reason you shouldnt be laughed at for months and months for this post. Just turn in your resume and hell maybe you will get a call back.. but you might want to have a back up plan.. moron! i cant express this enough: i would imagine the front office recognized that we are in need of a NT but if there wasnt one out there that they felt was goin to be a part of this team for years to come then i am happy they didnt draft one.. you should be happy to

citadelchief
05-04-2010, 12:42 PM
I'm not writing off the pick of Arenas just yet. I think with the changing face of NFL offenses, having a solid or maybe even top tier 3rd CB is and important piece of the puzzle. I'm glad the Chiefs passed on Cody because he's just a 300 lbs marshmallow. I thought they would grab Cam Thomas, but maybe this is a sign that Crennel has confidence in a combination of Shaun Smith and Glenn Dorsey at NT. I would suspect that Dorsey will primarily line up at DE and be a situational NT.

honda522
05-04-2010, 01:07 PM
Yes, I AM angry. When the Chiefs hired Pioli, everyone on here automatically bought that he was the guy pulling the strings in NE. Everyone thought he'd have this great plan to implement a new offense and defense. I just wanted to see that he knew what he was doing. The problem is that he wasn't a GREAT drafter in NE and most of the impact players NE brought in were free agents. Haley was ridiculously bad last year as a head coach. Yet, there are people like you who follow blindly and think these guys walk on water. It's pathetic really. Mainly because the above average to great moves these guys have made are tough to find.

You can like the flashy picks of McCluster and Arenas all you want. There's little doubt that they'll make some great plays this year and beyond. But I promise I won't come on this board and tell you "I told you so" when we're at the bottom of league in nearly EVERY defensive statistical category and we're picking in the top ten, yet again.

The "Patriot Way" isn't built on flashy players like Randy Moss and Wes Welker. It's built on top 10 defenses that can stop offenses when it matters. Can you HONESTLY say you think the Chiefs are capable of being even above average defensively this season?

Just in case you missed it... the Chiefs were either 31st or dead last in the league on defense. If you're NOT angry that they didn't upgrade their front 7 AT ALL through free agency NOR the draft, there's something wrong.

You can call me whatever you want, but I'm right.

You need to get the sand out of your vag and grow a pair. You going to stay mad forever? I am aware what we are ranked as a defense. Staying mad doesn't help yourself. If you don't this organization and the way it is head, I suggest you go bandwagon to the cowboys or steelers or something. Since I was little the Chiefs have been full of disappointments, nothing new to Chiefs fans.

I foresee a lot of people of here laughing at you when your wrong.

Too say this was a horrible draft would be treason. If they did terrible, Jason Whitlock would have written many articles by now. There is nothing wrong with picking play makers. Better to get studs than duds.

SAPHOJUNKIE
05-04-2010, 01:15 PM
Pioli doesn't know much about it either. The Patriots were built before homeboy showed up. He just happened to bring in Tom Brady and suddenly he's some kind of "guru." There's 4 or 5 people on this board who team up and give the Chiefs' front office a run for their money. You're new and don't know this board.

Pioli also helped orchestrate the drafts and free agent moves that KEPT a super bowl team on top of their division and one of the strongest in the league for nearly a decade after he arrived.

No one on this board can give our front office a "run for their money." It's asinine to think so.

I will say, however, that most of you people complaining that we didn't do enough to fix our front seven are myopic at best, and flat-out moronic at worst.

To think that we SHOULD have drafted anyone is to say that you A) understood the draft strategy, and B) know everything that the scouts and execs know about the player.

No.

All you see is Terrence Cody's body. You don't know the inner-circle's thoughts on his work ethic, character, style of play, potential to fit into their system.

You have no idea if he was actually considered a viable piece of the puzzle for this team. You just see 6'3, 348 pounds, and crap yourself in frustration.

Get over it. This team lacked SPEED last year, above all else. Speed. A nose tackle doesn't bring speed to the defense. We also signed Shaun Smith in the off-season, who should be a part of the nose tackle rotation, which is all a rookie was going to be able to do this year. Just rotate in as a sub.

citadelchief
05-04-2010, 01:18 PM
Nobody saw Cody's body. He was too embarrassed to take his shirt off at the combine or any workouts. The guy is too out of shape to have a future in the NFL. He's 348 lbs of chewed bubblegum.

SAPHOJUNKIE
05-04-2010, 01:20 PM
Are you really saying what I think you are saying, that you and a couple of other posters should be running the Front Office or could be doing a better job?

Seriously? Seriously. Seriously?
Ha ha hah ahahahahahahahah I mean, wow. Seriously?

WRONG.

Yeah, dude, that's what he's saying. he's literally saying that he and a couple of other dudes in dirty t-shirts on laptops could pop open a six-pack of PBR and draft a better team. How? simple. THEY READ THE INTERNETS!

buffman316
05-04-2010, 01:34 PM
Yeah, dude, that's what he's saying. he's literally saying that he and a couple of other dudes in dirty t-shirts on laptops could pop open a six-pack of PBR and draft a better team. How? simple. THEY READ THE INTERNETS!

That is a great point Sapho. Just because someone has an ESPN Insider account does not make them fit to make NFL front office decisions. There is a good chance that they aren't even running things at their own job. It is WAY too early to call this draft class a bust when six out of seven picks were team captains. These guys are also play makers and big game difference makers. This is a calls to be excited about for sure. Look at how Pioli and Co have already started cleaning up this mess: We have a Cadillac coaching staff, the best 1-2 punch at RB in the AFC, the best secondary in the AFC West and a great off season that is no where near over at this point. Save your anger that you have in May for something else like taxes or health care takeovers. :beat_DeadHorse:

70 chiefsfan70
05-04-2010, 01:49 PM
Yeah, dude, that's what he's saying. he's literally saying that he and a couple of other dudes in dirty t-shirts on laptops could pop open a six-pack of PBR and draft a better team. How? simple. THEY READ THE INTERNETS!


Hilarious!!!!!!:lol: :lol: :lol:

Pabst Blue Ribbon?????
Whay happened to respectable Beer?

So TRUE though.:beer:

70 chiefsfan70
05-04-2010, 01:52 PM
That is a great point Sapho. Just because someone has an ESPN Insider account does not make them fit to make NFL front office decisions. There is a good chance that they aren't even running things at their own job. It is WAY too early to call this draft class a bust when six out of seven picks were team captains. These guys are also play makers and big game difference makers. This is a calls to be excited about for sure. Look at how Pioli and Co have already started cleaning up this mess: We have a Cadillac coaching staff, the best 1-2 punch at RB in the AFC, the best secondary in the AFC West and a great off season that is no where near over at this point. Save your anger that you have in May for something else like taxes or health care takeovers. :beat_DeadHorse:


I love it!!!!!:lol: :lol: :lol:

SAPHOJUNKIE
05-04-2010, 02:28 PM
I know, right?

I mean, we all thought we'd draft a nose-tackle. We all figured that was a point of need. do ya think that MAYYYYBE the front office talked about the position, and then decided against it? Or do these people think that it never occurred to Pioli to even CONSIDER drafting Cody?

As long as we can throw out the possibility that Pioli didn't consider Cody, then we have to assume that they didn't value the players available at the nose tackle position higher than other players.

Maybe they really like Shaun Smith, I don't know.

Maybe they think that the run defense suffered because guys didn't know the system well enough, and not because we lacked the personnel.

regardless, it's just silly to think that not drafting one player completely ruins a draft.

bwilliams
05-04-2010, 02:28 PM
Everyone whose wetting themselves because they're happy we drafted "playmakers" - you do realize this is exactly the same draft strategy Al Davis followed for the last decade. He drafted based on speed and his belief that the players were "playmakers." He ignored his lines and his QB position. He's lost 11 games a year for seven games in a row. Do you really think that what we're doing is different?

And people are right. Drafting a NT this year wouldn't have been a cure-all. But if we're not going to draft or sign a top-NT, then stop running the 3-4. We are currently running a defense that CAN NOT WORK. This is like Herm Edwards with the Cover 2. We have the wrong personnel to run the defense we're running, and coaches who believe they can "coach-up" their current prospects. We would actually have a decent 4-3 lineup right now (Hali/Dorsey/Edwards/Jackson up front, DJ/Williams/Studebaker at LB), but our front office is too stubborn to switch.

For those who don't know, at a minimum the front seven of a 3-4 defense requires:

1. Three big, strong DL (including a NT who can hold ground against 2-3 guys)
2. Two big, fast(ish) OLBs
3. Two guys at ILB who are good against the run

If our front seven doesn't have those, we need a new scheme. Again, in case people don't know, the Pats didn't run a 3-4 UNTIL they got their NT (Wilfork). Before that, they ran primarily a 4-3. And people, those who of you who believe that Shaun Smith is anything but a backup are deluding yourselves.

And another thing, we didn't improve our OL. Undersized senior citizens and undersized injury risks are not upgrades. Why do you think they are?

OK, here's the question that can solve this whole thing. Why do you think we lost games lat year? Do you really believe that it was because of our OC/DC, KR/PR, and safety play? Because if you really believe that it was those reasons, I can understand why you think this offseason has been good. If you think our team only won four games because our run defense was terrible, we couldn't rush the passer, and we couldn't protect our QB, then this offseason has been terrible.

SAPHOJUNKIE
05-04-2010, 02:39 PM
Everyone whose wetting themselves because they're happy we drafted "playmakers" - you do realize this is exactly the same draft strategy Al Davis followed for the last decade. He drafted based on speed and his belief that the players were "playmakers." He ignored his lines and his QB position. He's lost 11 games a year for seven games in a row. Do you really think that what we're doing is different?

And people are right. Drafting a NT this year wouldn't have been a cure-all. But if we're not going to draft or sign a top-NT, then stop running the 3-4. We are currently running a defense that CAN NOT WORK. This is like Herm Edwards with the Cover 2. We have the wrong personnel to run the defense we're running, and coaches who believe they can "coach-up" their current prospects. We would actually have a decent 4-3 lineup right now (Hali/Dorsey/Edwards/Jackson up front, DJ/Williams/Studebaker at LB), but our front office is too stubborn to switch.

For those who don't know, at a minimum the front seven of a 3-4 defense requires:

1. Three big, strong DL (including a NT who can hold ground against 2-3 guys)
2. Two big, fast(ish) OLBs
3. Two guys at ILB who are good against the run

If our front seven doesn't have those, we need a new scheme. Again, in case people don't know, the Pats didn't run a 3-4 UNTIL they got their NT (Wilfork). Before that, they ran primarily a 4-3. And people, those who of you who believe that Shaun Smith is anything but a backup are deluding yourselves.

And another thing, we didn't improve our OL. Undersized senior citizens and undersized injury risks are not upgrades. Why do you think they are?

OK, here's the question that can solve this whole thing. Why do you think we lost games lat year? Do you really believe that it was because of our OC/DC, KR/PR, and safety play? Because if you really believe that it was those reasons, I can understand why you think this offseason has been good. If you think our team only won four games because our run defense was terrible, we couldn't rush the passer, and we couldn't protect our QB, then this offseason has been terrible.

God you are so wrong all the time, it's stupid.

You're right. Who is Casey Wiegmann? Oh that's right...probowler last year.

Who is Ryan Lilja? Oh that's right...starting guard for the Colts during BOTH of their Super Bowl appearances, and starting guard for a team that went 14-0. He must be TERRIBLE!

And by the way, don't come in 'droppin' knowledge" on people when you don't actually add any knowledge.

REALLY??!?! TO RUN A 3-4 YOU NEED 3 LINEMEN AND 4 LINEBACKERS??!! WHERE DID YOU GET THIS AMAZING INSIDER INFORMATION? ARE YOU WIRE TAPPING?

last year you had 6 out of 7 starters on the front lines who never played in a 3-4. But, of course, in your magical-fantasy land, players can't improve. The only way to get better is to just get new guys.

Oh, and we ran a 4-3 plenty last year, which we will continue to do this year.

Shaun Smith IS a backup. That's what I said, captain literate. he's a rotation guy. Guess what? We didn't have that last year, and Ron Edwards was completely gassed late in games.

LIKE I SAID, shaun smith provides everything that a rookie nose tackle would - he is a rotational backup who can help keep the defensive line fresh. And he's better than a rookie, because he has already been playing in the system, so he'll require less adjustment.

We will still need to get a nose tackle, but adding speed, character, work ethic, intelligence, and yes...PLAYMAKERS to a team almost devoid of those things was necessary.

Of course, you'll never understand that, so why do I bother?

bwilliams
05-04-2010, 02:39 PM
I know, right?

I mean, we all thought we'd draft a nose-tackle. We all figured that was a point of need. do ya think that MAYYYYBE the front office CONSIDERED drafting a nose tackle, and then decided against it? Or do these people think that it never occurred to Pioli to even think of drafting Cody?

As long as we can throw out the possibility that Pioli didn't consider Cody, then we have to assume that they didn't value the players available at the nose tackle position higher than other players.

Maybe they really like Shaun Smith, I don't know.

Maybe they think that the run defense suffered because guys didn't know the system well enough, and not because we lacked the personnel.

regardless, it's just silly to think that not drafting one player completely ruins a draft.

There was a good article I read once about Isiah Thomas. The author wrote that Thomas was a basketball genius. The guy could see things about basketball players and the way they played more than almost anyone.

His problem, and why he did so terribly as a GM, is because he missed the forest for the trees. He really believed that he could coach a guy like Jerome James or Eddy Curry into monster centers. He loved their footwork, shooting styles, and other aspects of their game so much, that he missed the fact that they were fat underachievers whose styles would clash with his other players, and who didn't fit the way his coaches wanted to run the team. In short, he outsmarted himself.

I have no doubt Romeo Crennel believes he can coach Shaun Smith/Ron Edwards into a decent 3-4 NT. He likes Smith, and he sees things in him that I, just a fan, could never see. Same with McCluster and Arenas. I have no doubt that Haley, Pioli, Weis and Crennel are very excited at what they can do with these guys. Weis is dreaming of Wildcat packages for McCluster, and Crennel is designing blitz packages for Arenas as we speak.

But they're missing the forest for the trees. The forest is that (1) people can only be coached up to the extent of their talent; (2) it doesnt matter how great your weapons are if the basics of your defense and offense don't work.

The Chiefs braintrust has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know. So has every football head coach GM ever. That doesn't mean all GMs and coaches know what they're doing. Their self-confidence is necessary, but its also they're undoing.

A blind man can see that we need a new RT, NT, and LBs. That no matter how well O'Callaghan, Edwards, D. Williams, and Mays are coached, they're going to be bottom 5 at their positions. But our coaches think they can coach around it. I don;t think they're right. Because you can't win without talented players at important spots. And we don't got 'em.

Hayvern
05-04-2010, 02:42 PM
All of this negativity. Please, can't we all just get along???

bwilliams
05-04-2010, 02:51 PM
God you are so wrong all the time, it's stupid.

Be nice. Or I'll make you my b!tch.


You're right. Who is Casey Wiegmann? Oh that's right...probowler last year.

Who is Ryan Lilja? Oh that's right...starting guard for the Colts during BOTH of their Super Bowl appearances, and starting guard for a team that went 14-0. He must be TERRIBLE!

Wiegmann was elected to the pro bowl in 2008, not last season. And he went as the 2nd alternate. That's his only pro bowl. You sure you know what you're talking about?

And Lilja was released for a reason. The reason is because he's too small and too often injured.


And by the way, don't come in 'droppin' knowledge" on people when you don't actually add any knowledge.

REALLY??!?! TO RUN A 3-4 YOU NEED 3 LINEMEN AND 4 LINEBACKERS??!! WHERE DID YOU GET THIS AMAZING INSIDER INFORMATION? ARE YOU WIRE TAPPING?

last year you had 6 out of 7 starters on the front lines who never played in a 3-4. But, of course, in your magical-fantasy land, players can't improve. The only way to get better is to just get new guys.

Or just get guys who are physically right for the positions. You know, what good teams do.


Oh, and we ran a 4-3 plenty last year, which we will continue to do this year.

Not really. We switched up occasionally, but the 3-4 was our base defense.


Shaun Smith IS a backup. That's what I said, captain literate. he's a rotation guy. Guess what? We didn't have that last year, and Ron Edwards was completely gassed late in games.

LIKE I SAID, shaun smith provides everything that a rookie nose tackle would - he is a rotational backup who can help keep the defensive line fresh. And he's better than a rookie, because he has already been playing in the system, so he'll require less adjustment.

I wasn't responding to you, ya know, or anyone in particular. Why do you think Smith/Edwards will work at NT? Every team Smith/Edwards have started for have finsihed near the bottom of the league in run defense. Do you think there's a reason for that?


We will still need to get a nose tackle, but adding speed, character, work ethic, intelligence, and yes...PLAYMAKERS to a team almost devoid of those things was necessary.

Of course, you'll never understand that, so why do I bother?

It isn't just a nose tackle. We need new players at C, RT, NT, 1WR, LOLB, both ILBs, and SS. We aren't going to win six games if we stick with our current starters at those positions. Why is this so hard to understand?

And if you don't like what I post, put me on ignore.

citadelchief
05-04-2010, 02:54 PM
1.) Shaun Smith was a steadily improving player under Crennel in Cleveland. What knocked his career off was the fact he knocked out Brady Quinn in the locker room. 2.) To say Weigmann and Lilja aren't improvements to the line is just ignorant. 3.) I guess some people missed it, but Pioli and Co just drafted what they considered to be the missing elements to their offensive scheme. A playmaker that can line up in a variety of positions (McCluster) and a well-balanced TE that can be a threat in the passing game and hold his own in blocking schemes (Moeaki).

Does the D still need work? Of course it does, but now they have the coach they want and can get a better look at the personnel they have.

bwilliams
05-04-2010, 03:07 PM
1.) Shaun Smith was a steadily improving player under Crennel in Cleveland. What knocked his career off was the fact he knocked out Brady Quinn in the locker room. 2.) To say Weigmann and Lilja aren't improvements to the line is just ignorant. 3.) I guess some people missed it, but Pioli and Co just drafted what they considered to be the missing elements to their offensive scheme. A playmaker that can line up in a variety of positions (McCluster) and a well-balanced TE that can be a threat in the passing game and hold his own in blocking schemes (Moeaki).

Does the D still need work? Of course it does, but now they have the coach they want and can get a better look at the personnel they have.

OK, why do you think the Colts cut Lilja? It wasn't to save money - they paid Lilja his bonus before they let him go. The reason is because they want to better bigger in their OL, and Lilja is undersized and injury prone. Is he an imporvement over Wade Smith? Yes. Are there 30 other guys I'd rather have manning the postion. Yes.

Same thing with Wiegmann and the Broncos. Wiegman is old and undersized. He can't open running lanes anymore, although he remains an adequate pass blocker. He'd be a great backup for us (so would Lilja). Just because Wiegmann is better than Niswanger, it doesn't mean he very good anymore. Believe it or not, old and undersized offensive linemen don't tend to last very long during the season.

Smith Smith did fine in Cleveland when they lined him up at LDE or RDE. He's do fine here as well as a backup at those two spots. He isn't a NT, and he's done miserably when forced into the spot.

I'm certain they do consider McCluster and Moeaki to be the missing links in their offense. I don't agree. I think they've massively overevaluated our talent levels, especially at WR and on the OL. And I don't like McCluster in the slot anyway. He's too small, has difficulty running routes, and had fumble problems as a receiver in college.

And with all respect, I don't see our defense getting better until it gets much more talented. Berry was a good start (even though I really wanted Okung, it was a great pick), but we're going to keep losing seven-point games for so long as teams can run at will on us in the 4th quarter.

SAPHOJUNKIE
05-04-2010, 03:36 PM
It isn't just a nose tackle. We need new players at C, RT, NT, 1WR, LOLB, both ILBs, and SS. We aren't going to win six games if we stick with our current starters at those positions. Why is this so hard to understand?

And if you don't like what I post, put me on ignore.

I get it. You like guys on paper. That's all you know and understand.

This isn't mock draft anymore, okay? it's the actual game. And it has to be played by actual players. Who receive actual contracts. Actually. Contractually.

You can't just say "guys who are physically right for the position." What if they aren't mentally right for the position? What if they aren't emotionally right for the team?

I like our draft. I would have loved if we drafted a middle linebacker, nose tackle, and 1WR. But guess what? We also needed a slot receiver, nickel corner, tight end, and guard.

DUDE. YOU HAVE TO STOP MENTIONING LILJA. WE DRAFTED ASAMOAH. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

by the way, Asamoah can play center as well. So really, you need to stop mentioning interior linemen altogether.

What wide receiver should we have taken? who? Demetrius Thomas? Benn? Bryant? All gone by our 2B pick.

Who then? None of the wide receivers on the board were primary options. Now it drops to tate. If Weis thought he was the answer, we would have taken him for our slot position. They preferred McCluster. Deal with it.

LOLB. Like who? jerry hughes didn't fall. Sergio Kindle did. You want to take a linebacker who has had legal issues and microfracture surgery on his knee? No thanks. then who? WHO WAS AVAILABLE?

I keep coming back to nose tackle, because that was the only position that we passed over. We had the option of taking a nose tackle, and we flat-out didn't.

What else? What major free agents have we ignored? What draft prospects did we pass over? Dansby? overpaid. Cody? Major red flags. Cam Thomas? That's the one. Cam Thomas, I guess. But why did so many teams pass him over. doesn't that say anything to you?


C - dude stop with the center. Wiegmann, Niswanger, Asamoah.

RT - I would like to see this upgraded, but it was nowhere near the top of our needs.

NT - discussed ad naseum.

1WR - If Bowe isn't our 1WR, that means we are getting someone even better, which would give us a top-flight WR corps. Awesome, but again, this wasn't a priority, and it is NOT necessary to "win six games."

LOLB - You really think replacing Vrabel is the key to our success? Really? You think he was the reason we struggled?

Both ILBs - do you mean Mays and Williams, Williams and DJ, or Mays and DJ? I just need to know if you are counting DJ as part of the problem.

SS - Strong safety as in Jarrad page? the guy who was our starting free safety and doing well before his injury? Why is it that we can't move Page, at 6'0, 225 pounds, to SS and have speed at the position?

citadelchief
05-04-2010, 04:26 PM
We can't just add all pro-bowlers. It doesn't work like that. The team got a hell of a lot better in this off season. Quit cut and pasting from ESPN. Their experts haven't exactly been on the ball this offseason. Weigmann and Lilja are proven starters in the league and are clear upgrades on a line that was made up of guys that would be on the practice squad elsewhere. McCluster is a huge weapon when he gets the ball (just like Darren Sproles, Percy Harvin, and DANTE HALL). He is by no means a primary threat, but when you mix him in with other weapons (Charles, Chambers, Jones, Bowe) he becomes an excellent addition. And you must not have ever seen Moeaki play. He has great hands, excellent athletic ability, and is an amazing blocker (watch him hand Derrick Morgan his rear in the Orange Bowl). Shaun Smith has been steadily improving and will do just fine rotating with Edwards and Dorsey. And with Dorsey and Smith also able to rotate on the end, it looks like the d line got better too. And as far as running on us in the 4th qtr, maybe you haven't been paying attention, but this team is reporting in 700 lbs lighter than last season. They're in much better shape this time around. That means the endurance level will be better = playing better late in the game. Improvements happen little at a time. They don't just come overnight. This team got much better.

NWA Chief
05-04-2010, 04:36 PM
For those who didn't like our defense last year, you have every right..........what you need to understand is we were in our 1st year in the 3-4. Teams that run a 3-4 tend to get better with time, so do the players that play in the 3-4.

The production we woulda got in a DT drafted in the 4th or later is the same as getting an UDFA. They wouldn't be more than a reserve. Do i think we need a new DT? Very much so, but it won't happen fast.

Nothing wrong with running the 3-4 and it's not going anywhere soon.

Lilja, very productive but on the smaller side. Will help in ways I can't even explain on a forum. He's a leader and a serviceable starter until we can groom another one.

If you don't like the things KC does, you don't have to be a fan. I don't think we are a ruined franchise like some of you others on here. I'm diehard and know they are going in the right direction

SAPHOJUNKIE
05-04-2010, 05:13 PM
Smith Smith did fine in Cleveland when they lined him up at LDE or RDE. He's do fine here as well as a backup at those two spots. He isn't a NT, and he's done miserably when forced into the spot.



Dude, quit acting like you have the faintest idea what you're talking about. That's right, I'm sure you paid a TON of attention to the Cleveland defensive line rotation three years ago.

God, you just talk out of your ace all the time, and you think it makes you sound like you are informed. It doesn't. At all.




I'm certain they do consider McCluster and Moeaki to be the missing links in their offense. I don't agree. I think they've massively overevaluated our talent levels, especially at WR and on the OL. And I don't like McCluster in the slot anyway. He's too small, has difficulty running routes, and had fumble problems as a receiver in college.

OH MY GOD JUST STOP.

You seriously think it means ANYTHING that you "don't agree" with the front office's evaluation of the talent on the team? Seriously? SERIOUSLY???

Oh, and which BS internet site did you lift the whole "has difficulty running routes" thing from? Because McCluster makes terrific cuts and accelerates out of his breaks.

In short, you continue to talk as though your opinion means something. It's fine to have an opinion, but you seriously act like yours is based in years of scouting experience, as opposed to years of eating cheetos on the couch on sundays.

this is the type of guy who says "I've broken down the film on him," as though you've been watching the coach's tape, which isn't public. No. You've been re-winding your DVR, pausing ever so briefly on the stands to see if your ex-girlfriend's dad still has season tickets.

In summation, you are not an expert.

Those considered experts disagree with you.

People like....

Rick Gosselin.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/stories/042510dnspogoosegrades.3f4b050.html


MEL KIPER (rated Dexter #1 impact player of the second round)

1. Dexter McCluster (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/24901/dexter-mccluster)
This pick surprised a lot of people. Here were the Kansas City Chiefs (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/clubhouse?team=kan), drafting early in Round 2 (No. 36), with needs dotting their board. Then they take an undersized running back out of Ole Miss who I think could have gone closer to the late stages of Round 2. McCluster is really miscast as simply the next in a line of guys like Darren Sproles (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=8544) -- small, super-fast, change-of-pace players who break big plays but always seem in jeopardy of taking that one big hit. But the Chiefs can use this guy. And right away.
For one, McCluster can catch the ball. He caught 44 passes last year -- from the undrafted and often inaccurate Jevan Snead (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft/player/_/id/25543/jevan-snead) -- and can line up in the slot for the Chiefs. At about 175 pounds, he's not a drastically undersized slot guy. What's more, McCluster is tough. He piled up 181 carries last year, including 34 against Oklahoma St. So yes, he won't be used in the slot alone. Think Sproles with better receiving skills. Ultimately, McCluster tops this list because the Chiefs do have holes. In that sense, why take a guy at this stage if you don't plan to utilize him immediately? You can bet Todd Haley and Charlie Weis are already at the drawing board.


Mike Mayock - listen to him gush



YouTube- Kansas City Chiefs 2010 Draft Dexter McCluster 2nd round

citadelchief
05-04-2010, 05:23 PM
A couple other things to consider about Weigmann and Lilja. 1.) Both have history with the Chiefs. Weigmann was a part of what was arguably one of the greatest offensive lines in NFL history. That is a great mentor to have for younger players. Lilja was drafted by the Chiefs during that same time frame. He missed out on making the team because they were so talented on the line, but KC wanted to sign him to the practice squad and bring him along. Indy just beat them to the punch. 2.) Lilja has been a part of a CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM. If you don't think that's important than you clearly don't understand anything about sports in general. 3.) Lilja is a smaller guard which is what you want if your offense is generated around spreading the field. 4.) Both players are workers that continue not just to make teams, but start for them despite age and injuries. That's the tough guy mentality you want in a lineman.

Bike
05-04-2010, 05:31 PM
So who is the franchise NFL ready NT that we passed on? I know people are quick to point out the problem...whats the solution? Who's the guy eveyone wanted? The only mention of any solution I have heard was Cody. The soon to bee 400lbs again Terrence Cody? No thanks. Complain all you like but at least offer up a solution to the problem. You aren't making headlines with the fact that we don't have a great NT.

Correct. I am almost positive that Pioli knows where the weak spots are on this team. I think that he simply didn't see a NT in this draft that could anchor a rebuilding defense for the next ten years. So he upgraded what he thought we needed next - team speed. I'm sure we'll find our franchise NT - as soon as - well - as soon as we can find him.

chief31
05-04-2010, 05:48 PM
Bottom line is this entire board, combined, doesn't know half as much as Pioli knows about putting together a Superbowl winning team. It sounds cliche, but seriously, trust the process. I bet we get our franchise NT next year.

Should we have also trusted that Herm Edwards knew so much?


Are you really saying what I think you are saying, that you and a couple of other posters should be running the Front Office or could be doing a better job?

Seriously? Seriously. Seriously?
Ha ha hah ahahahahahahahah I mean, wow. Seriously?

WRONG.

Pssst. There are four teams in our division. I am guessing Moe, Larry and Curly could have secured, at least, fourth place.

--------------------------------------

Al Davis has Super Bowl rings too. Does that mean that noone could do a better job?

No matter how many Super Bowl rings ya have, it doesn't mean that you are great. It means that you played some part in a great TEAM. And, with any great team, some parts are far better than others.

Is Pioli one of the strong parts, or just another guy that benefitted from some other guys who were strong enough to compensate for the 'lesser' parts of the TEAM?

Faith has led so many to "just believe" that Pioli was one of the stronger links in that chain. I don't do that. For me, and many others, he has to show that, in order to earn that kind of faith.

I like him. I have high hopes for him. But I do not have faith.

I had faith in Dick Vermiel. He proved his worth. After taking a dismal Eagles team to a Super Bowl, he proved it by taking a dismal Rams team to the Super Bowl. Then he even turned around a dismal Chiefs team. Not quite getting it all together to make a Super Bowl trip.

Always question a guy's ability to do the job at the top level, until he proves you wrong.

--------------------------------------

If Micheal Jordan had concentrated on baseball, instead of basketball, would you have also laughed at him when he said that he could play in The NBA?

How about if Albert Einstein had decided to be a police detective, over a physicist? Would he be worth mocking for claiming to know something about Physics?

Ronald Reagen could have continued to pursue his acting career. But, instead, he chose to go into politics and become one of the most popular Presidents of the modern era.

When you laugh at someone who believes that they would be good at a job that they don't currently do, you come off as short-sighted and just someone who is trying to be an a**.

BigChief
05-04-2010, 05:52 PM
@texaschief: fine to be bummed at some of the picks and the prioritization, but isn't it finally feeling like we're trying again? I'm fighting my urge to rant, and giving these guys one more season and one more off-season before passing judgment again.
(http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/member.php?u=90)

matthewschiefs
05-04-2010, 05:59 PM
]We can't just add all pro-bowlers.[/B] It doesn't work like that. The team got a hell of a lot better in this off season. Quit cut and pasting from ESPN. Their experts haven't exactly been on the ball this offseason. Weigmann and Lilja are proven starters in the league and are clear upgrades on a line that was made up of guys that would be on the practice squad elsewhere. McCluster is a huge weapon when he gets the ball (just like Darren Sproles, Percy Harvin, and DANTE HALL). He is by no means a primary threat, but when you mix him in with other weapons (Charles, Chambers, Jones, Bowe) he becomes an excellent addition. And you must not have ever seen Moeaki play. He has great hands, excellent athletic ability, and is an amazing blocker (watch him hand Derrick Morgan his rear in the Orange Bowl). Shaun Smith has been steadily improving and will do just fine rotating with Edwards and Dorsey. And with Dorsey and Smith also able to rotate on the end, it looks like the d line got better too. And as far as running on us in the 4th qtr, maybe you haven't been paying attention, but this team is reporting in 700 lbs lighter than last season. They're in much better shape this time around. That means the endurance level will be better = playing better late in the game. Improvements happen little at a time. They don't just come overnight. This team got much better.

Thats very true.

To the people that are upset just rember we won offseasons all the time in the early 2000s added many and many times trying to fill a gap with a ageing vet. IT DID NOT WORK. We never won the superbowl even though we won offseasons according to some of the experts. When something does not work you try something diffrent. GIVE THIS TEAM A CHANCE before you complain.

SAPHOJUNKIE
05-04-2010, 06:01 PM
Always question a guy's ability to do the job at the top level, until he proves you wrong.
--------------------------------------
If Micheal Jordan had concentrated on baseball, instead of basketball, would you have also laughed at him when he said that he could play in The NBA?

How about if Albert Einstein had decided to be a police detective, over a physicist? Would he be worth mocking for claiming to know something about Physics?

Ronald Reagen could have continued to pursue his acting career. But, instead, he chose to go into politics and become one of the most popular Presidents of the modern era.

When you laugh at someone who believes that they would be good at a job that they don't currently do, you come off as short-sighted and just someone who is trying to be an a**.

Wow dude. It's one thing to say something really dumb, but then to try and defend it with tissue-thin logic is just...embarrassing.

I mean there's no way someone could possibly rip apart your iron-clad argument in one sentence.


But...let me try.

You cannot profess the merits of your own skeptism towards Pioli while simultaneously saying that I am trying to be an a**hole, simply because I doubt you, or any of the other self-agrandizing couch monkeys here, would be good at NFL talent evaluation.

Well, look at that. I did it. one sentence.


So...which is it, pal?

Are you an a-hole for doubting Pioli, like the a-holes who doubted Ronald Reagan?

Or are you an a-hole for thinking that you would be good as a GM, like the a-holes who have faith in Pioli.

Gosh dang it, I have work to do, but you goobers keep inciting me.

Just stop talking, and this will all be over. or at least stop defending completely retarded conjecture and delusions of grandeur.

Bike
05-04-2010, 06:10 PM
@texaschief: fine to be bummed at some of the picks and the prioritization, but isn't it finally feeling like we're trying again? I'm fighting my urge to rant, and giving these guys one more season and one more off-season before passing judgment again.
(http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/member.php?u=90)
Huh? I thought public forums are here to do just that - rant and spout opinions (judgements).

bwilliams
05-04-2010, 06:20 PM
I get it. You like guys on paper. That's all you know and understand.

This isn't mock draft anymore, okay? it's the actual game. And it has to be played by actual players. Who receive actual contracts. Actually. Contractually.

In the "actual game," we're 4-12 under the current regime. Every bit of greatness you see in our draft picks and young players is your wishfulness that they'll be good. It isn't anything that's actually been on the field. You do realize this, at least, don't you?


You can't just say "guys who are physically right for the position." What if they aren't mentally right for the position? What if they aren't emotionally right for the team?

You know, it isn't impossible to find players who are mentally, emotionally, and physically proper for their schemes. Good teams tend to do this.


I like our draft. I would have loved if we drafted a middle linebacker, nose tackle, and 1WR. But guess what? We also needed a slot receiver, nickel corner, tight end, and guard.

We didn't need the second group a tenth as much as we needed the first. Why is this so hard for you to understand?


DUDE. YOU HAVE TO STOP MENTIONING LILJA. WE DRAFTED ASAMOAH. YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.

by the way, Asamoah can play center as well. So really, you need to stop mentioning interior linemen altogether.

Wow, Asamoah must be a great player if he can man all three interior line positions in his rookie year. By himself. You, sir, are a scholar of the game.


What wide receiver should we have taken? who? Demetrius Thomas? Benn? Bryant? All gone by our 2B pick.

Who then? None of the wide receivers on the board were primary options. Now it drops to tate. If Weis thought he was the answer, we would have taken him for our slot position. They preferred McCluster. Deal with it.

You are (not surprisingly) missing the point. It isn't that we failed to take a WR in the 2nd. Or an OT in the 1st. Or a NT in the 3rd. It's that we put a premium on positions that are relatively unimportant at the expense of ones who were. A GM that can't at least attempt to draft a starting WR, NT, ILB, OLB, or RT (Vrabel is good against the run, but isn't very good at rushing the passer anymore) in the 2nd round when those are our biggest positions of need shouldn't be a GM. As Jimmy Johnson once said, if you draft backups, you get backups.


LOLB. Like who? jerry hughes didn't fall. Sergio Kindle did. You want to take a linebacker who has had legal issues and microfracture surgery on his knee? No thanks. then who? WHO WAS AVAILABLE?

Koa Misi.


I keep coming back to nose tackle, because that was the only position that we passed over. We had the option of taking a nose tackle, and we flat-out didn't.

What else? What major free agents have we ignored? What draft prospects did we pass over? Dansby? overpaid. Cody? Major red flags. Cam Thomas? That's the one. Cam Thomas, I guess. But why did so many teams pass him over. doesn't that say anything to you?


C - dude stop with the center. Wiegmann, Niswanger, Asamoah.

RT - I would like to see this upgraded, but it was nowhere near the top of our needs.

NT - discussed ad naseum.

1WR - If Bowe isn't our 1WR, that means we are getting someone even better, which would give us a top-flight WR corps. Awesome, but again, this wasn't a priority, and it is NOT necessary to "win six games."

LOLB - You really think replacing Vrabel is the key to our success? Really? You think he was the reason we struggled?

Both ILBs - do you mean Mays and Williams, Williams and DJ, or Mays and DJ? I just need to know if you are counting DJ as part of the problem.

SS - Strong safety as in Jarrad page? the guy who was our starting free safety and doing well before his injury? Why is it that we can't move Page, at 6'0, 225 pounds, to SS and have speed at the position?

Who should we have got in the draft or FA? It easy to play "What if?" I'd have traded a 5th for a nice big RG in Sims and tried for Amano at C. I'd have drafted Cam Thomas in the 5th. I'd have gone Koa Misi at and 2a Vladamir Ducasse at 2b. I'd also have gone for Jason Avant in FA as our slot WR. I'd also have given Will Witherspoon a shot at ILB and drafted another in the 4th or 5th.

That isn't everything, just things I consider the most possible. Other people would do something entirely different. But good GMs don't pretend problems don't exist. Ours is.

bwilliams
05-04-2010, 06:22 PM
Wow dude. It's one thing to say something really dumb, but then to try and defend it with tissue-thin logic is just...embarrassing.

I mean there's no way someone could possibly rip apart your iron-clad argument in one sentence.


But...let me try.

You cannot profess the merits of your own skeptism towards Pioli while simultaneously saying that I am trying to be an a**hole, simply because I doubt you, or any of the other self-agrandizing couch monkeys here, would be good at NFL talent evaluation.

Well, look at that. I did it. one sentence.


So...which is it, pal?

Are you an a-hole for doubting Pioli, like the a-holes who doubted Ronald Reagan?

Or are you an a-hole for thinking that you would be good as a GM, like the a-holes who have faith in Pioli.

Gosh dang it, I have work to do, but you goobers keep inciting me.

Just stop talking, and this will all be over. or at least stop defending completely retarded conjecture and delusions of grandeur.

You really shouldn't think you're upsetting anyone. You're an object of amusement and pity. No more, no less.

texaschief
05-04-2010, 06:46 PM
So who is the franchise NFL ready NT that we passed on? I know people are quick to point out the problem...whats the solution? Who's the guy eveyone wanted? The only mention of any solution I have heard was Cody. The soon to bee 400lbs again Terrence Cody? No thanks. Complain all you like but at least offer up a solution to the problem. You aren't making headlines with the fact that we don't have a great NT.

No one ever said anything about getting a NT who was going to be an instant star in the NFL or anything of the like. The simple fact is that D-linemen take a few years to develop. Dorsey will be better than he has been the last couple years and TJ will be better than he was last year. But neither will turn in a pro bowl type season for another couple seasons. For a NT to play at a high level, he's going to need time. Why wait another season to bring a rookie into the fold if you're building this team to compete for a championship in the next couple years? I would've MUCH rather seen Pioli reach for a NT at #5 than see him reach for Jackson last season. It wouldn't have been some HUGE stretch for the Chiefs to trade up from 2a to snag Dan Williams before he was taken at #26.


Pioli also helped orchestrate the drafts and free agent moves that KEPT a super bowl team on top of their division and one of the strongest in the league for nearly a decade after he arrived.

2001
1-Richard Seymour-Great Player (Traded)
2-Matt Light-2007 Pro Bowl replacement, 2008 Pro Bowl (Starter)
3-Brock Williams-Release 02
4-Kenyatta Jones-Appeared in 11 games, released in 03
4b-Jabari Holloway-Played 17 games, released in 02
5-Hakim Akbar-never played, released in 02
6a-Arthur Love-Appeared in 1 game. released in 02
6b-Leonard Myers-Released in 02
7a-Owen Pochman-Released in 01
7b-TJ Turner-Released in 01

2002
1-Daniel Graham-Released in 2006 after his career year
2-Deion Branch-Traded after a career year in 05 for a first round pick
4a-Rohan Davey-Never played, released in 05
4b-Jarvis Green-Signed as a FA with the Broncos in 2009
7a-Antoine Womack-Released in 02
7b-David Givens-Released in 05

2003
1-Ty Warren-Starter
2a-Eugene Wilson-Released in 2007
2b-Bethel Johnson-Poor work ethic, cut in 05
4a-Dan Klecko-Released in 2006
4b-Asante Samuel-Pro Bowl caliber CB (Now with the Eagles)
5-Dan Koppen-Starter
6-Kliff Kingsbury-Waived in 04
7a-Spencer Nead-realeased in 03
7b-Tully Banta-Cain-Starter
7c-Ethan Kelley-released in 03

2004
1-Vince Wilfork-Pro Bowl caliber starter
1b-Benjamin Watson-Starter for Cleveland
2-Marquise Hill-Deceased
3-Guss Scott-released in 04
4a-Dexter Reid-released in 06
4b-Cedric Cobbs-free agent 2006
5-P.K. Sam-waived in 2005
7-Christian Morton-released in 2004

2005
1-Logan Mankins-Starter
3a-Ellis Hobbs-traded to Eagles for 2 fifth rounders
3b-Nick Kaczur-RT starter
4-James Sanders-Starter at Safety
5-Ryan Claridge-released in 2006
7a-Matt Cassel-traded to Chiefs for 2nd round pick (starter)
7b-Andy Stokes-released in 2006

2006
1-Laurence Maroney-backup running back
2-Chad Jackson-cut in 2008
3-David Thomas-traded to Saints for 7th rd pick
4a-Garrett Mills-placed on IR in 06, released in 07
4b-Stephen Gostkowski-starting kicker
5-Ryan O'Callghan-waived in 09, starting for Chiefs
6a-Jeremy Mincey-cut in 06
6b-Dan Stevenson-released in 06
6c-Le Kevin Smith-packaged with a 7th round pick for a 5th round pick from the Broncos
7-Willie Andrews-Released in 08 after multiple arrests

2007
1-Brandon Meriweather-Starter
4-Kareem Brown-released in 07
5-Clint Oldenburg-released in 07
6a-Justin Rogers-cut in 07
6b-Mike Richardson-released in 09, signed by Chiefs
6c-Justise Hairston-released in 07
6d-Corey Hilliard-released in 07
7-Oscar Lua-released in feb of 08
7-Mike Elgin-released in 07

2008
1-Jared Mayo-Starter
2-Terrence Wheatley-Active backup
3-Shawn Crable-placed on IR in 09
3b-Kevin O'Connell-released in 09
4-Jonathan Wilhite-active backup
5-Mathew Slater-active backup
6-Bo Ruud-waived in 09

2009
1-Tyson Jackson-Starter
3-Alex Magee-Active backup
4-Donald Washington-Active backup
5-Colin Brown-placed on IR in 09
6-Quintin Lawrence-waived in 09
7-Javarris Wiliams-Active backup
7b-Jake O'Connell-Active backup
7c-Ryan Succop-Starting kicker

11 of the 75 picks that you give Pioli credit for are current starters for the Patriots/Chiefs. That's a 14.66% hit rate on his draft picks. Of those 11 starters, 8 of them were chosen in the first three rounds. That's 8 starters from 19 picks in the first 3 rounds. Of those 8 starters, 6 of them were first round picks. Of the 60 picks who could qualify, only 20 lasted longer than 3 seasons and only 16 are still in the league AT ALL.

No one on this board can give our front office a "run for their money." It's asinine to think so.

Really? What part of my resume disqualifies me? Oh, that's right, you don't know sh!t about me. Pioli has his undergrad in communications. I've got my BBA in Sports Management where I graduated top 3%. He got his masters in communication. I'll have my MBA in December in... you guessed it, Sports Management. He spent 2 years as a line coach at Murray St. to begin his career. I've been the assistant LB coach and player scout at Incarnate Word for the past two years. He took a position as a personnel assistant with the Browns his 3rd year under Belicheck and I'm taking a position with UTSA's new football program under Larry Coker. He was 27 when he took his spot with the Browns. I'm 26.

However, the one thing I don't have is a wife who's father is Bill Parcells. Guess we found my disqualification.

I will say, however, that most of you people complaining that we didn't do enough to fix our front seven are myopic at best, and flat-out moronic at worst.

You aren't qualified enough to say if someone is myopic to moronic. Just because you say it, doesn't make it so.


To think that we SHOULD have drafted anyone is to say that you A) understood the draft strategy, and B) know everything that the scouts and execs know about the player.

No.

All you see is Terrence Cody's body. You don't know the inner-circle's thoughts on his work ethic, character, style of play, potential to fit into their system.

You have no idea if he was actually considered a viable piece of the puzzle for this team. You just see 6'3, 348 pounds, and crap yourself in frustration.

Get over it. This team lacked SPEED last year, above all else. Speed. A nose tackle doesn't bring speed to the defense. We also signed Shaun Smith in the off-season, who should be a part of the nose tackle rotation, which is all a rookie was going to be able to do this year. Just rotate in as a sub.

Wow. The rest of this paragraph is EXACTLY why you need to just turn your computer off and quit talking. This team didn't give up the most rushing yards because it lacked team speed. It's because their front 7 couldn't stop anyone. "Team speed???" LMAO Is this all you're going to do? Just take whatever comes out of Pioli's mouth and regurgitate it back onto the screen as if you're saying something profound? lmao. Do you believe EVERYTHING you hear and just trust EVERYONE? Do you still believe healthcare is going to lower the deficit and Santa will leave you coal if you misbehave? Go get an education and learn how to think for yourself. I promise, it'll come in handy.

In order to say something and have it received with ANY weight, put some credentials behind it.






There was a good article I read once about Isiah Thomas. The author wrote that Thomas was a basketball genius. The guy could see things about basketball players and the way they played more than almost anyone.

His problem, and why he did so terribly as a GM, is because he missed the forest for the trees. He really believed that he could coach a guy like Jerome James or Eddy Curry into monster centers. He loved their footwork, shooting styles, and other aspects of their game so much, that he missed the fact that they were fat underachievers whose styles would clash with his other players, and who didn't fit the way his coaches wanted to run the team. In short, he outsmarted himself.

I have no doubt Romeo Crennel believes he can coach Shaun Smith/Ron Edwards into a decent 3-4 NT. He likes Smith, and he sees things in him that I, just a fan, could never see. Same with McCluster and Arenas. I have no doubt that Haley, Pioli, Weis and Crennel are very excited at what they can do with these guys. Weis is dreaming of Wildcat packages for McCluster, and Crennel is designing blitz packages for Arenas as we speak.

But they're missing the forest for the trees. The forest is that (1) people can only be coached up to the extent of their talent; (2) it doesnt matter how great your weapons are if the basics of your defense and offense don't work.

The Chiefs braintrust has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know. So has every football head coach GM ever. That doesn't mean all GMs and coaches know what they're doing. Their self-confidence is necessary, but its also they're undoing.

A blind man can see that we need a new RT, NT, and LBs. That no matter how well O'Callaghan, Edwards, D. Williams, and Mays are coached, they're going to be bottom 5 at their positions. But our coaches think they can coach around it. I don;t think they're right. Because you can't win without talented players at important spots. And we don't got 'em.

For all you "RAGING HOMERS" out there who don't like your beloved Pioli/Haley getting ripped for seriously questionable decisions since they've arrived, THIS is how you present a logical and substantive rebuttal. Name calling is just humorous and makes you look desperate and unintelligent enough to make a logical argument.

Keep it respectable and civil or your password may not work one day.

SAPHOJUNKIE
05-04-2010, 06:58 PM
You know, it isn't impossible to find players who are mentally, emotionally, and physically proper for their schemes. Good teams tend to do this.

gee, ya think? the problem is that your entire point is based on the idea that these people were available at the SPECIFIC POSITIONS YOU WANTED.

one of those positions had such a player - John Asamoah. we drafted him.


We didn't need the second group a tenth as much as we needed the first. Why is this so hard for you to understand?This isn't a Chinese menu. You don't get to just pick whatever you want. The players have to ACTUALLY BE AVAILABLE TO YOU.

The only player you have been able to say fits the scheme and was available was Koa Misi. KOA MISI, who doesn't fill a big need. He would be a BACKUP to MIKE VRABEL. WHAT ABOUT THAT DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND?

Oh that's right. It's your fantasyland, where rookie defensive ends transition to not only the pro game, but a new defense and a new position, while simultaneously pushing out an established veteran. That's a HUGE need, right?

Do you actually think about what you post before you hit "enter?"



Wow, Asamoah must be a great player if he can man all three interior line positions in his rookie year. By himself. You, sir, are a scholar of the game.Don't be a retard (anymore than you have to).

Brian Waters
Casey Wiegmann
Rudy Niswanger
Ryan Lilja
John Asamoah

there are plenty of options for the interior line should age or injury set us back. And you know it.



You are (not surprisingly) missing the point. It isn't that we failed to take a WR in the 2nd. Or an OT in the 1st. Or a NT in the 3rd. It's that we put a premium on positions that are relatively unimportant at the expense of ones who were. A GM that can't at least attempt to draft a starting WR, NT, ILB, OLB, or RT (Vrabel is good against the run, but isn't very good at rushing the passer anymore) in the 2nd round when those are our biggest positions of need shouldn't be a GM. As Jimmy Johnson once said, if you draft backups, you get backups. So...I'm missing the point, huh? It isn't that we didn't draft a wide receiver or tackle, it's that we drafted another position instead?! Gee, do you work for NASA?

First of all, WR1 IS NOT A PRIORITY. We have a WR1. You are talking about upgrading a position that is not a need. it's a luxury.

We did not have a slot man. We did not have a change-of-pace back. We did not have a kickoff return man. we did not have a nickel-back. We did not have a punt returner.

those were all as big, if not bigger, needs than a right tackle, WR1, or inside linebacker.

Also, YOUR ENTIRE THEORY PRESUPPOSES THAT THE BEST PLAYERS AVAILABLE AT YOUR DESIRED POSITIONS FIT WITH THE TEAM.



Koa Misi.



Who should we have got in the draft or FA? It easy to play "What if?" I'd have traded a 5th for a nice big RG in Sims and tried for Amano at C. I'd have drafted Cam Thomas in the 5th. I'd have gone Koa Misi at and 2a Vladamir Ducasse at 2b. I'd also have gone for Jason Avant in FA as our slot WR. I'd also have given Will Witherspoon a shot at ILB and drafted another in the 4th or 5th. [/quote]1. berry
2a backup to mike vrabel
2b right guard/tackle who might very well be too raw to contribute right away.
3. Amano.
4. ???
5. cam thomas.
5b. traded for a guard.

Thank god you didn't draft for us.

Your "solutions" for the lines are:

Bob sims, who has only played one full season his entire career. good call, yeah.

Vlad Ducasse: raw and not ready to contribute.

and what is this magical "trade" happening for Amano? And you want to move him to center? What the eff are you saying here?




That isn't everything, just things I consider the most possible. Other people would do something entirely different. But good GMs don't pretend problems don't exist. Ours is.God you are so full of it.

SAPHOJUNKIE
05-04-2010, 07:16 PM
Keep it respectable and civil or your password may not work one day.

here come the threats!

Canada
05-04-2010, 07:44 PM
This is the funniest fukin thread I have read in a loooong time!!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol ::lol:

SalinaChiefsFan
05-04-2010, 08:46 PM
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/photoplog/images/2178/medium/2_love_this_thread.jpg

tornadospotter
05-04-2010, 10:18 PM
I like this thread, should have started reading it sooner, now I have to catch up!

garciakcfan
05-04-2010, 11:55 PM
where are the mods (specifically one) handing out the sensitive infractions????? Ive been warned for less, this is crap and im pissed...... this is why i dont post anymore.... but i miss you guys:chiefs:

chief31
05-04-2010, 11:58 PM
Wow dude. It's one thing to say something really dumb, but then to try and defend it with tissue-thin logic is just...embarrassing.

I mean there's no way someone could possibly rip apart your iron-clad argument in one sentence.


But...let me try.

You cannot profess the merits of your own skeptism towards Pioli while simultaneously saying that I am trying to be an a**hole, simply because I doubt you, or any of the other self-agrandizing couch monkeys here, would be good at NFL talent evaluation.

For starters, I wasn't talking to you.

Furthermore, the doubt was not the issue, childish mockery was. Therefore, your clever annihilation of me was a failure. You did not address the topic that you claim to "rip apart".

Well, look at that. I did it. one sentence.


So...which is it, pal?

Are you an a-hole for doubting Pioli, like the a-holes who doubted Ronald Reagan?

Or are you an a-hole for thinking that you would be good as a GM, like the a-holes who have faith in Pioli.

Gosh dang it, I have work to do, but you goobers keep inciting me.

Just stop talking, and this will all be over. or at least stop defending completely retarded conjecture and delusions of grandeur.

Your off-topic tirades are as immature as they are trivial.

Just try to stay within the rules and you are free to post whatever you like, no matter how frivolous.

Though it will garner little in the way of actual discussion.

Ryfo18
05-05-2010, 12:07 AM
All that we can do now is hope the haters are wrong and this is the year the Chiefs finally turn it around after 3 lousy seasons. I'm not going to throw it in the haters' faces if they do turn it around, but I also can't justify hating on my favorite team before I've even seen them take the field in a brand new season.

I see a team that is going to be tough to stop offensively and a team that is going to be improved on defense with the additions of a nickel CB, a highly touted safety, and a proven defensive coordinator. I can't find anything to not like.

honda522
05-05-2010, 12:12 AM
All that we can do now is hope the haters are wrong and this is the year the Chiefs finally turn it around after 3 lousy seasons. I'm not going to throw it in the haters' faces if they do turn it around, but I also can't justify hating on my favorite team before I've even seen them take the field in a brand new season.

I see a team that is going to be tough to stop offensively and a team that is going to be improved on defense with the additions of a nickel CB, a highly touted safety, and a proven defensive coordinator. I can't find anything to not like.
Hope? Its not hope to me their wrong. I know their wrong.

Chiefster
05-05-2010, 01:39 AM
where are the mods (specifically one) handing out the sensitive infractions????? Ive been warned for less, this is crap and im pissed...... this is why i dont post anymore.... but i miss you guys:chiefs:

On behalf of the mods here please let me be the first to apologize to all who find that, although we are mods, we have lives outside this site and cannot be logged on twenty-four seven. Or, if logged on we cannot be present at our computers for said twenty-four seven time period. Please forgive our short sightedness of expecting for one second that, perhaps, we could leave off babysitting and trust that respectful, coherent and adult conversation would, at least, for a short while take place without us.

garciakcfan
05-05-2010, 01:45 AM
well why not??? wheres the customer service when you need it??

Chiefster
05-05-2010, 01:47 AM
well why not??? wheres the customer service when you need it??


Your right; I'll tell coach to give my "mod powers" to you.

garciakcfan
05-05-2010, 01:50 AM
no thanks, i wouldnt want you to feel less important on the forums

Chiefster
05-05-2010, 01:58 AM
no thanks, i wouldnt want you to feel less important on the forums
:lol:

Oh snap! You know me so well. After all, for what you pay to come here and post and justifiably complain about the lack mod presence I am genuinely surprised that said transfer of mod capabilities has not already transpired.

Anyway, I regret that you feel yourself ill used for your outstanding contributions to the site.

garciakcfan
05-05-2010, 02:13 AM
i do have 1 (58)????

Chiefster
05-05-2010, 02:15 AM
i do have 1 (58)????

Why yes; yes you do.

matthewschiefs
05-05-2010, 02:18 AM
i do have 1 (58)????

I wanna 58 I deserve one just for being me :D

garciakcfan
05-05-2010, 02:26 AM
lol:chiefs:

tornadospotter
05-05-2010, 02:59 AM
well why not??? wheres the customer service when you need it??
Maybe dealing with life issues!

tornadospotter
05-05-2010, 03:07 AM
I wanna 58 I deserve one just for being me :D
Why yes maybe you do, but then, I am sure that you will reach that goal.

pbatrucker
05-05-2010, 09:22 AM
Does anyone remember 6'1", 280 lb Derek Lokey. The one who put up 225 lbs 38 times at the combine and is immovable on the line of scrimmage?
Well he is now 6'1" 300 lb, can't move off the line of scrimmage and after 2 seasons of off season work, probably even stronger. 300 lbs might not be enough weight for some of our experts, but at 6'1 he will play with leverage and will probably be in the rotation at NT. BUILD FROM WITHIN!!

Crossbow
05-05-2010, 10:54 AM
I know it has been a few years now since this team has been very good. But lets give these guys a chance to build something here before we get too excited. One aspect I am interested in is the coaching upgrades. I find it hard to believe that all the highly rated athletes that the Chiefs have drafted recently have been so bad. It has to have been bad coaching. I am holding back judgement until the end of this year. I want to see what THIS coaching staff can do with these players before I decide on anything.

Canada
05-05-2010, 10:57 AM
On behalf of the mods here please let me be the first to apologize to all who find that, although we are mods, we have lives outside this site and cannot be logged on twenty-four seven. Or, if logged on we cannot be present at our computers for said twenty-four seven time period. Please forgive our short sightedness of expecting for one second that, perhaps, we could leave off babysitting and trust that respectful, coherent and adult conversation would, at least, for a short while take place without us.

there is a mod right in the middle of this conversation, i just hope he does not think im tattling on him!!

Chiefster
05-05-2010, 03:36 PM
there is a mod right in the middle of this conversation, i just hope he does not think im tattling on him!!

I know; I was responding to garciakcfan's complaint about the lack of mod presence.

Canada
05-05-2010, 03:57 PM
I know; I was responding to garciakcfan's complaint about the lack of mod presence.

:DMeh....there's too much of it if u ask me!! :lol:

Chiefster
05-05-2010, 04:06 PM
:DMeh....there's too much of it if u ask me!! :lol:

:lol:

I read ya. :D

matthewschiefs
05-05-2010, 04:17 PM
I know; I was responding to garciakcfan's complaint about the lack of mod presence.

There are mods here. When did this happen? :D

Chiefster
05-05-2010, 04:19 PM
There are mods here. When did this happen? :D


:lol: New development.

garciakcfan
05-05-2010, 10:28 PM
i was being sarcastic, geez

stricken721
05-05-2010, 10:49 PM
:plus1: Mods are awesome.

SalinaChiefsFan
05-05-2010, 11:01 PM
:plus1: Mods are awesome.

Actually, around here they are. Not to be Sammy Smoochbutt here, but this forum is one of the better run boards that I have been on. My compliments to the staff.



Also, I had never seen that smiley until tonight. If I had known it existed, my post count would be around 84,000 by now. :postwhore5fw:

Chiefster
05-05-2010, 11:05 PM
where are the mods (specifically one) handing out the sensitive infractions????? Ive been warned for less, this is crap and im pissed...... this is why i dont post anymore.... but i miss you guys:chiefs:


i was being sarcastic, geez


Really??? I did not realize that.

Three7s
05-05-2010, 11:09 PM
Realizing sarcasm over the internet is something us young kids are born with! Sorry old man!

Chiefster
05-05-2010, 11:11 PM
:plus1: Mods are awesome.


Actually, around here they are. Not to be Sammy Smoochbutt here, but this forum is one of the better run boards that I have been on. My compliments to the staff.



Also, I had never seen that smiley until tonight. If I had known it existed, my post count would be around 84,000 by now. :postwhore5fw:

Thank you.

We mods hope to be a reflection of the outstanding members that make up Chiefs Crowd.:bananen_smilies046:

chief31
05-05-2010, 11:25 PM
Actually, around here they are. Not to be Sammy Smoochbutt here, but this forum is one of the better run boards that I have been on. My compliments to the staff.



Also, I had never seen that smiley until tonight. If I had known it existed, my post count would be around 84,000 by now. :postwhore5fw:

Thanks. Although I credit the members of the board for so rarely losing their cool and maintaining the rules on their own.

We really don't do alot. And I definitely prefer it that way.:D

Chiefster
05-05-2010, 11:27 PM
Thanks. Although I credit the members of the board for so rarely losing their cool and maintaining the rules on their own.

We really don't do alot. And I definitely prefer it that way.:D

This!

Canada
05-06-2010, 10:21 AM
Realizing sarcasm over the internet is something us young kids are born with! Sorry old man!:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Chiefster
05-07-2010, 01:17 AM
Realizing sarcasm over the internet is something us young kids are born with! Sorry old man!

This is true. Proper use of smilies help us old men out.

tornadospotter
05-07-2010, 08:47 PM
This is true. Proper use of smilies help us old men out.
To quote a much posting Chiefs Crowd member of esteem.................."This".
:postwhore5fw:

Chiefster
05-07-2010, 11:18 PM
To quote a much posting Chiefs Crowd member of esteem.................."This".
:postwhore5fw:

:bananen_smilies046::D

okikcfan
05-08-2010, 02:05 PM
Tho I have not read all 10 pages of this thread, I have read bits and pieces. Not all of us are happy with the draft and some of us are pleased with it. The biggest change this year from last to me is the coaching staff. I have always said and believed that the coaching is everything. That is pretty much a no brainer. Weis and Crennel have stated they liked what they saw in many of last years players. So, if they are really as good as people say and as we all hope they are then I have faith as a Chiefs Fan that we will see a much needed improvement in a number of players. You have to admit, Herm in my book had to be the aka biggest bust as far as nfl coaches goes in KC. Now that Haley will be able to do his job as just a HC and let Weis and Crennel do theirs, I for one think we could very well be the most improved team in the NFL this season. I think if protected, Cassel could be what we have all dreamed of with the right weapons and our weapons have greatly been upgraded. This is year two. Have a little faith, there is a plan I'm sure. Give it a chance and let the good times roll! GO CHIEFS!!!

matthewschiefs
05-08-2010, 04:56 PM
Tho I have not read all 10 pages of this thread, I have read bits and pieces. Not all of us are happy with the draft and some of us are pleased with it. The biggest change this year from last to me is the coaching staff. I have always said and believed that the coaching is everything. That is pretty much a no brainer. Weis and Crennel have stated they liked what they saw in many of last years players. So, if they are really as good as people say and as we all hope they are then I have faith as a Chiefs Fan that we will see a much needed improvement in a number of players. You have to admit, Herm in my book had to be the aka biggest bust as far as nfl coaches goes in KC. Now that Haley will be able to do his job as just a HC and let Weis and Crennel do theirs, I for one think we could very well be the most improved team in the NFL this season. I think if protected, Cassel could be what we have all dreamed of with the right weapons and our weapons have greatly been upgraded. This is year two. Have a little faith, there is a plan I'm sure. Give it a chance and let the good times roll! GO CHIEFS!!!

100% agree

at first i was kind of disapointed in the draft but now that i have looked up some of our picks I can not wait for the season to start. I think we are going to surprise A LOT of people this season even some chiefs fans. :chiefs:

70 chiefsfan70
05-09-2010, 01:33 AM
100% agree

at first i was kind of disapointed in the draft but now that i have looked up some of our picks I can not wait for the season to start. I think we are going to surprise A LOT of people this season even some chiefs fans. :chiefs:
YEP!

pbatrucker
05-09-2010, 05:14 AM
100% agree

at first i was kind of disapointed in the draft but now that i have looked up some of our picks I can not wait for the season to start. I think we are going to surprise A LOT of people this season even some chiefs fans. :chiefs:
:chiefs: I totally agree!!

kckidd8870
05-09-2010, 02:20 PM
agree that we have improved to and got some really good player,but Like everyone know you need a good NT and some decent LB's to make the 3-4 D_Fense work.We have Neither one.We have Hali ,Mays ,Williams,and D Johnson.Mays is lost on D-Fense,Willaims is o.k I guess,Hali is solid,D Johnson hasn't done much but think he can be great player ,just need to find himself.Hopefully he will do good things this years.I may be wrong but I think this Sheffield from Troy will make a push for an OSLB job.I guess we will see Chiefs fans.If the D-line and LB"S don't find themselfs this year and play solid,I guess we will be picking in the top #5 in the 2011 draft.Say it's not so.Hopefully Romeo ,Wiess ,Haley ,Pioli,and the rest of the Chiefs staff,See something we don't and Pull of some Chiefs Magic and Make this team compititors again.GO CHIEFS(CHIEFS FAN FOR LIFE)Only a couple more months till prseason and we will see.

Connie Jo
05-09-2010, 11:53 PM
OH MY GOSH!

Well, definitely a thread that held my interest, hahaha.

GO CHIEFS 2010!!!! That's all folks! :)

Chiefster
06-07-2010, 02:15 PM
OH MY GOSH!

Well, definitely a thread that held my interest, hahaha.

GO CHIEFS 2010!!!! That's all folks! :)

Our work here is done! :D

kckidd8870
06-07-2010, 03:01 PM
I agree on getting Cam Thomas but even with injury problems,the Tight End we picked up better be an upgrade and not a #3 Tight end.If he is,then he really stinks,because all the other tight end we have arent that great.Pope might be ok. but not great.Dam I sure miss Tony G.

chiefnut
06-07-2010, 03:05 PM
We passed on Raji last year, Cody & Thomas this year at NT in the draft. i most certainly agree this was and is an area of extreme need. not as concerned w/C or RT now and even LT may hold up for another year based on the end of last seasons play and the off season pick ups. ILB still also a glaring need so on your star points you are right on target.

SAPHOJUNKIE
06-07-2010, 03:25 PM
I was checking my phone for draft updates the whole fourth round, thinking we would take Cam Thomas if he fell to us in the fifth.

When the draft was over, and we had passed on Dan Williams, Cody, Cam Thomas, and the rest of the big nose tackles, I was a little confused. Wasn't this a MAJOR need? Weren't we terrible against the run?

Like everyone else, I was especially shocked at the arenas pick, and I still think it is potentially our weakest draft pick. Moeaki was a late rounder, so it's not as big of a deal if he doesn't pan out.

However, it is clear to me that one or more of the following statements is definitely true:

1. The Chiefs valued speed over size, as multiple people have said the team was one of the slowest in memory.

2. the Chiefs valued character over talent.

3. the Chiefs feel the defensive line is going to make big strides this year.

4. the Chiefs felt the secondary was nowhere near complete.

5. the Chiefs did not like any of the nose tackle prospects, from either a character or talent standpoint.

Most likely, it's a combination of these things.

Hayvern
06-07-2010, 03:58 PM
agree that we have improved to and got some really good player,but Like everyone know you need a good NT and some decent LB's to make the 3-4 D_Fense work.We have Neither one.We have Hali ,Mays ,Williams,and D Johnson.Mays is lost on D-Fense,Willaims is o.k I guess,Hali is solid,D Johnson hasn't done much but think he can be great player ,just need to find himself.Hopefully he will do good things this years.I may be wrong but I think this Sheffield from Troy will make a push for an OSLB job.I guess we will see Chiefs fans.If the D-line and LB"S don't find themselfs this year and play solid,I guess we will be picking in the top #5 in the 2011 draft.Say it's not so.Hopefully Romeo ,Wiess ,Haley ,Pioli,and the rest of the Chiefs staff,See something we don't and Pull of some Chiefs Magic and Make this team compititors again.GO CHIEFS(CHIEFS FAN FOR LIFE)Only a couple more months till prseason and we will see.

I too believe we need to get a linebacker soon, but I am not so concerned about a linebacker as much as I was with the offensive line.

We have some talent at Linebacker, we also have some talent at defensive line. I am not one of these guys that think you have to continually draft the same positions year in and year out if a player is not a superstar in their first year (re: Tyson Jackon).

At linebacker we also still have Vrabel, who's leadership is going to really start to shine through this season in teh linebacker core.

Safety was a concern, I hated the fact we had to waste a pick on a safety, when we had a perfecly serviceable safety, but since our coach could not work with the guy we had, we had to go get someone else.

Ultimately, I guess the coaches think that our offensiveline is good, I whole heartedly disagree with that statement. I think we are mediocre at best on the OL this season and if Cassel makes it through the season uninjured, it will be a marvelous stroke of luck. We still need a center and a tackle at OL for this season, and likely even a guard as well.

Let's hope that speedy little runningback/receiver is able to do half of what everyone thinks he can do, because if he cannot, Cassel is going to be running for his life all season.

matthewschiefs
06-07-2010, 08:10 PM
We passed on Raji last year, Cody & Thomas this year at NT in the draft. i most certainly agree this was and is an area of extreme need. not as concerned w/C or RT now and even LT may hold up for another year based on the end of last seasons play and the off season pick ups. ILB still also a glaring need so on your star points you are right on target.

I think there might be something that we dont no about Thomas. I kept expecting him to be the next pick and he just kept falling. I think there might be something that made him fall. Not sure though

pbatrucker
06-07-2010, 10:24 PM
I think there might be something that we dont no about Thomas. I kept expecting him to be the next pick and he just kept falling. I think there might be something that made him fall. Not sure though
Lack of production in college.

tornadospotter
06-07-2010, 11:26 PM
We should go back to a 4-3, and really screw up the talking heads. Who really knows what the team is going to do.

Drunker Hillbilly
06-08-2010, 01:18 PM
I absolutely love all of the " let's give this team a chance " posts! How many chances do you propose we actually give them? Year after year, regardless of who is the GM, coach, O coordinator, D coordinator, special teams coaches, water boy or locker room attendant is, these guys have been given chance after chance after chance!! I will say it again, do I want our team to win a Superbowl? YES YES YES!!! Would I rather have a team that is competetive and makes the playoffs every year like when Marty was here and not win a Superbowl? YES YES YES!!! Would I like to continue to be a laughing stock of the NFL and finish behind the biggest laughing stock in the NFL, the Oakland Raiders? NO NO NO!!!

Many of you as fans continue to give this team the benefit of the doubt year after year after year. When does that stop? I know, next year right? STOP giving this team and organization a break! OUR team went from a prolific playoff team year after year and ALWAYS a handful to play especially at home to a "look past" game for every team in the league, EVEN AT ARROWHEAD!!!!!! Less than half the stadium being filled is a disgrace to an organization that USE to have the biggest home field advantage in football!

The Chiefs will again be under the salary cap and for what? To finish with 4, 5, 6 wins??? NOT ACCEPTABLE HUNT!!!! Either step up and run this franchise or move aside and sell the team because you are disgracing what your father worked so hard to build!!!!

Canada
06-08-2010, 01:41 PM
Nope, im gonna give them a chance every season. Im not sure what your expectations are for this year. Set aside SuperBowl and Playoff aspirations. In reality, going from 4-12 to 8-8 or 9-7 is a pretty good improvement. I dont think there is any reson for any team to go out and blow as much cash on players as they can. Who knows how this will affect the team in the future. There is not CBA right now so why sign a bunch of high priced players who are just gonna put us back ar 4-12 in a few years cause we cant afford them anymore. I get that you are upset, but I am giving our management the benefit of the doubt right now because I have no other choice. I like a lot of the things they have done since they arrived. Remeber before they were a prolific team, they were a bad team. These guys need time to build a quality team, not an overnight team that is gonna put us right back into the basement in 3 years.

Drunker Hillbilly
06-08-2010, 02:16 PM
Nope, im gonna give them a chance every season. Im not sure what your expectations are for this year. Set aside SuperBowl and Playoff aspirations. In reality, going from 4-12 to 8-8 or 9-7 is a pretty good improvement. I dont think there is any reson for any team to go out and blow as much cash on players as they can. Who knows how this will affect the team in the future. There is not CBA right now so why sign a bunch of high priced players who are just gonna put us back ar 4-12 in a few years cause we cant afford them anymore. I get that you are upset, but I am giving our management the benefit of the doubt right now because I have no other choice. I like a lot of the things they have done since they arrived. Remeber before they were a prolific team, they were a bad team. These guys need time to build a quality team, not an overnight team that is gonna put us right back into the basement in 3 years.
I understand to a certain point......however, at some point do you, even as optimistic as you are about this team most of the time, do you not get disgusted at the way things are ran or the performances that this team puts out? I don't neccesarily like or dislike any of the player moves or draft this year. Just kinda "meh" to me. I am more less speaking as a whole for the last several years of absolute inept activity from the players, coaches and owner. It's not necassary to "blow the bank" on one guy in FA every year but at some point, most teams make a run at a "superstar" in FA. We have not even sniffed that idea.

I realize we are more than one player away from anything but at some point there needs to be a player to build around and as far as I'm concerned, we haven't gone after that guy in decades! In my opinion, a team should NEVER leave money on the table under the cap unless it is to resign a few guys with expiring contract etc.. I had watched it for too many years here in Az. and until Bidwill stopped lining his pockets, the Cardinals did not win. He started spending money the year he hired Denny Geen and they actually started on an upward movement from that point and a few short years later made an appearance in the Superbowl not to mention won the division several times. (not with Green) As for my expectations this year, as you would expect they are nautiously low. Certainly not over .500. Not sure they will reach 6 wins. I truly hope I am wrong here but at this point I just don't see us making a 5 game jump from last season.

I guess I'm just asking the organization and fans to take some pride in what this team use to be and in MY world, pride is shown with anger when your team sucks as bad as we have for as long as we have. This is MY world remember. I get angry when year after year I continue to hear the team along with some fans make excuses for the crappy product they put on the field and to top it ALL of...........FINISH BEHIND THE RAIDERS AND BRONCO'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Canada
06-08-2010, 02:56 PM
I understand to a certain point......however, at some point do you, even as optimistic as you are about this team most of the time, do you not get disgusted at the way things are ran or the performances that this team puts out? I don't neccesarily like or dislike any of the player moves or draft this year. Just kinda "meh" to me. I am more less speaking as a whole for the last several years of absolute inept activity from the players, coaches and owner. It's not necassary to "blow the bank" on one guy in FA every year but at some point, most teams make a run at a "superstar" in FA. We have not even sniffed that idea.

Don't get me wrong. When the game is over and they played like sh!t, then yes, I am absolutely digusted. I walked away from a Chiefs game for the first time in my life 2 seasons ago. By the end of the third quarter I decided to just get drunk and BBQ outside. The game was still on but I lost interest because it does get old watching them get their as handed to them.

As far as the "SUPERSTAR"'

Charlie Weiss
Romeo Crennel

Thats where I see this team making a commitment to winning. We did not go after any big superstar player, but I dont think this is the season to do that. There is too much uncertainty with an uncapped season. I see it this way...

Year 1 - Institute the system. Let the players learn even though it is gonna be a litte rocky at times.

Year 2 - Build the foundation of this team. We are starting to see who is gonna be here and who is not. Character guys who will hopefully be the future of the team. (Playoffs with a weak schedule and some improvement is not out of the realm of possibility)

Year 3 - We should start to contend regularly for the AFC West title and start making deep runs into the playoffs.

I realize we are more than one player away from anything but at some point there needs to be a player to build around and as far as I'm concerned, we haven't gone after that guy in decades! In my opinion, a team should NEVER leave money on the table under the cap unless it is to resign a few guys with expiring contract etc.. I had watched it for too many years here in Az. and until Bidwill stopped lining his pockets, the Cardinals did not win. He started spending money the year he hired Denny Geen and they actually started on an upward movement from that point and a few short years later made an appearance in the Superbowl not to mention won the division several times. (not with Green) As for my expectations this year, as you would expect they are nautiously low. Certainly not over .500. Not sure they will reach 6 wins. I truly hope I am wrong here but at this point I just don't see us making a 5 game jump from last season.

Like I said earlier, I think 8-8 would be reasonable. An improved team that was starting to play together down the strech last season, with a weak schedule and a weak division.

I guess I'm just asking the organization and fans to take some pride in what this team use to be and in MY world, pride is shown with anger when your team sucks as bad as we have for as long as we have. This is MY world remember. I get angry when year after year I continue to hear the team along with some fans make excuses for the crappy product they put on the field and to top it ALL of...........FINISH BEHIND THE RAIDERS AND BRONCO'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I take very much pride in this team and everything it stands for. Sure I get angry at times, but I am careful about where I take that anger out. I sat in front of a guy who boo'ed Matt Cassel for the entire game when I was there. IMO that guy is just as much a problem as any player, coach or GM/Owner. Be part of the solution, not part of the problem. I don't make any excuses for the fact that these guys have sucked for the last three years, but I have started to see some ligh at the end of the tunnel. I think our coaching staff and management are looking much farther down the road than any of us are. Farther than I am at least. While I would have loved to see them address the O and D lines, I think that improved coaching and experience will help the current players we have. I expect to see our D line perform better than expected. As for the O line, they started to gel late in the season last year and they have made some modest improvements in the offseason. I dont think Lilja and Weigmann are the saviours of our O line, but I do think they are very seriviceable and will bring valuable experience to the table. I guess we all have our ways of expressing our emotions about the team we love, some are more positive than others, but in the end we are all looking for the same thing...a Kansas City Chiefs Super Bowl title!! :chiefs::bananen_smilies046:

Drunker Hillbilly
06-08-2010, 03:39 PM
I can work with that. The only thing I have an issue with is that this organization has not looked at a "superstar" player to build around seriously ever that I can remember in the last 20 years and let's face it, players are what make things happen. I'm fine with the new coaching staff and actually think they will help. My problem I guess is that I have just not delt with mediocrity very well in anything in my life and I certainly can't deal with it very well when the team I have loved since I was able to understand is mired in it and worse.

As far as fans being as much a problem.....fans do not have the ability to make any decisions that will affect the teams performance with the exception of showing up to the games for moral support so I will have to disagree with you there. I think that guy has every right to cheer OR boo based on his evaluation of how the team or player is playing. I think you can see that I am making a concerted effort to be a little more optimistic about this team since they have gotten rid of Peterson which I was soooo adimant about. I will continue to make that effort but it will become more and more difficult if the well below average seasons continue to pile up. By the way, are we in year 1 or 2 of your scenario? I would place us in the year 2 catagory.

Canada
06-08-2010, 03:49 PM
I can work with that. The only thing I have an issue with is that this organization has not looked at a "superstar" player to build around seriously ever that I can remember in the last 20 years and let's face it, players are what make things happen. I'm fine with the new coaching staff and actually think they will help. My problem I guess is that I have just not delt with mediocrity very well in anything in my life and I certainly can't deal with it very well when the team I have loved since I was able to understand is mired in it and worse.

As far as fans being as much a problem.....fans do not have the ability to make any decisions that will affect the teams performance with the exception of showing up to the games for moral support so I will have to disagree with you there. I think that guy has every right to cheer OR boo based on his evaluation of how the team or player is playing. I think you can see that I am making a concerted effort to be a little more optimistic about this team since they have gotten rid of Peterson which I was soooo adimant about. I will continue to make that effort but it will become more and more difficult if the well below average seasons continue to pile up. By the way, are we in year 1 or 2 of your scenario? I would place us in the year 2 catagory.

This is where I would have to disagree with you. Cassel is a young guy and this dude was screaming nasty sh!t at him all game. Part of what makes these guys great is wanting to play for a team and if the crowd is on you constantly then I can see it affecting his play. I understand booing a bad play or a bad call, but to be screaming at the guy while he is on the sidelines is ridiculous. It serves no purpose other than to destroy any confidence our QB may have. Like him or not, he our quaterback. Why would you want to hinder his perfromance?

Drunker Hillbilly
06-08-2010, 04:44 PM
I'm not certain a guy or 20 guys from the 20th row or even the 1st row would affect the play of a professional football player and if it did, he may need to rethink his profession. I understand your point but it's this guys right to say whatever he wants. He paid his money just like everyone did but I know what your saying.

Canada
06-08-2010, 04:50 PM
I'm not certain a guy or 20 guys from the 20th row or even the 1st row would affect the play of a professional football player and if it did, he may need to rethink his profession. I understand your point but it's this guys right to say whatever he wants. He paid his money just like everyone did but I know what your saying.

I think he was bugging me more than anything. I saw Cassel look up at him a few times though. I wanted to knoKC him out. I know they need thick skin, but these guys are mostly still young kids too. you wouldnt be human if stuff like that didnt affect you eventually!! :bananen_smilies046:

chiefnut
06-08-2010, 06:30 PM
How many chances do you propose we actually give them?

AS MANY AS IT TAKES!!! to get back to the super bowl

chief31
06-08-2010, 08:21 PM
I give them a chance every year. But, when they aren't doing things well, then I also have no problem with making that known.

Nothing wrong with a little "tough love". Many praise Todd Haley for it.:D

Drunker Hillbilly
06-08-2010, 09:50 PM
How many chances do you propose we actually give them?

AS MANY AS IT TAKES!!! to get back to the super bowl
Always rosey in your world I guess. Not mine!

tornadospotter
06-25-2010, 11:38 PM
:chiefs::plus1: This thread was a very interesting read and needs :feedback:

Hayvern
06-27-2010, 05:54 PM
I think he was bugging me more than anything. I saw Cassel look up at him a few times though. I wanted to knoKC him out. I know they need thick skin, but these guys are mostly still young kids too. you wouldnt be human if stuff like that didnt affect you eventually!! :bananen_smilies046:

I have seen it bother pitchers in baseball who are going through their warmups, basketball players also have been known to go off on mouthy fans.

I have never heard of a NFL player being affected, but I am sure if you are within shouting distance, a fan could get under a player's skin. It just seems a little harder to do on a football field, and I would expect having a 280 pound lineman screaming at you would be more impactful than some 280 pound beer drinker in the 20th row.

tornadospotter
06-27-2010, 11:15 PM
I have seen it bother pitchers in baseball who are going through their warmups, basketball players also have been known to go off on mouthy fans.

I have never heard of a NFL player being affected, but I am sure if you are within shouting distance, a fan could get under a player's skin. It just seems a little harder to do on a football field, and I would expect having a 280 pound lineman screaming at you would be more impactful than some 280 pound beer drinker in the 20th row.
very true

Canada
06-28-2010, 08:33 AM
I have seen it bother pitchers in baseball who are going through their warmups, basketball players also have been known to go off on mouthy fans.

I have never heard of a NFL player being affected, but I am sure if you are within shouting distance, a fan could get under a player's skin. It just seems a little harder to do on a football field, and I would expect having a 280 pound lineman screaming at you would be more impactful than some 280 pound beer drinker in the 20th row.

I just think that if u have a young QB standing on the sideline and he has to listen to a fan call him every name in the book, it doesnothing to help his confidence. DO you really think that if all the fans keep doing that, that Matt Cassel is gonna give two sh!ts about playing for the fans of Kansas City? Just like cheering brings a teams mood up, im sure booing them does just the opposite.

Hayvern
06-28-2010, 04:31 PM
I just think that if u have a young QB standing on the sideline and he has to listen to a fan call him every name in the book, it doesnothing to help his confidence. DO you really think that if all the fans keep doing that, that Matt Cassel is gonna give two sh!ts about playing for the fans of Kansas City? Just like cheering brings a teams mood up, im sure booing them does just the opposite.

I honestly do not know, I have never been an NFL quarterback. I know it would bother me though.

I don't know how these guys do it to be honest. I am so insecure as it is that even reading criticism in a news article would set me off if I felt it was unfounded.

Most of these guys have had to deal with it though so I am sure they get used to it after a while, but I have no doubt that a young player would be effected by it. I think it is even worse if that so called fan was wearing team colors.

KC fan 01
06-28-2010, 04:58 PM
I think they got Arenas to be a KR so Jamaal Charles doesn't have to waste his legs doing that. I liked the draft, every pick could end up being a bust from Sam Bradford all the way to Mr. Irrelevant. They also could turn out to be great. This is why I don't like ppl talking about draft prospects until the season starts and they show what they can do.

matthewschiefs
06-28-2010, 06:25 PM
I think they got Arenas to be a KR so Jamaal Charles doesn't have to waste his legs doing that. I liked the draft, every pick could end up being a bust from Sam Bradford all the way to Mr. Irrelevant. They also could turn out to be great. This is why I don't like ppl talking about draft prospects until the season starts and they show what they can do.

I agree. The one thing I was saying before the draft was I did not think that Berry was the best pick becuse IMO the defensive backfield was not the biggest need. But since we took him I will give it a chance to see what he can do.GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!:chiefs:

SAPHOJUNKIE
06-29-2010, 04:54 PM
I agree. The one thing I was saying before the draft was I did not think that Berry was the best pick becuse IMO the defensive backfield was not the biggest need. But since we took him I will give it a chance to see what he can do.GO CHIEFS!!!!!!!!!!

All I know is, we were slow, weak, and stupid on defense last year.

berry and arenas are smart, strong, and fast. Also, the more I read and listen to the players' comments about the past regimes, the more I realize that the Chiefs were complacent, top to bottom, before Pioli took over.

I mean, we as fans put so much into the game and team, you would like to think that they are at least WORKING to be competitive. It sure doesn't sound that way.

Even Brian "everyone says I hate the coach" waters was talking about how people were lazy and not taking their jobs seriously before Haley took over.

Sounds like the team needed a major attitude adjustment, and every one of our draft picks fit the mold of guys with the right attitude. And it's not like they aren't talented, too...

matthewschiefs
06-29-2010, 06:16 PM
All I know is, we were slow, weak, and stupid on defense last year.

berry and arenas are smart, strong, and fast. Also, the more I read and listen to the players' comments about the past regimes, the more I realize that the Chiefs were complacent, top to bottom, before Pioli took over.

I mean, we as fans put so much into the game and team, you would like to think that they are at least WORKING to be competitive. It sure doesn't sound that way.

Even Brian "everyone says I hate the coach" waters was talking about how people were lazy and not taking their jobs seriously before Haley took over.

Sounds like the team needed a major attitude adjustment, and every one of our draft picks fit the mold of guys with the right attitude. And it's not like they aren't talented, too...


That is why I am loveing what I have seen From Haley. The very first thing he did when he took over is get on the players for being out of shape. It says alot about the former coach of this team that he even had to mention that once. Even with haveing to go through a good part of the last offseason dealing with just getting the guys in the shape they should have been in the first place he was still able to double the wins. That is why I am so excited about what this team is going to be like on the field this comeing season. Its defently good to be a Chiefs fan again. :bananen_smilies046:

Connie Jo
07-02-2010, 06:09 PM
I absolutely love all of the " let's give this team a chance " posts! How many chances do you propose we actually give them? Year after year, regardless of who is the GM, coach, O coordinator, D coordinator, special teams coaches, water boy or locker room attendant is, these guys have been given chance after chance after chance!! I will say it again, do I want our team to win a Superbowl? YES YES YES!!! Would I rather have a team that is competetive and makes the playoffs every year like when Marty was here and not win a Superbowl? YES YES YES!!! Would I like to continue to be a laughing stock of the NFL and finish behind the biggest laughing stock in the NFL, the Oakland Raiders? NO NO NO!!!

Many of you as fans continue to give this team the benefit of the doubt year after year after year. When does that stop? I know, next year right? STOP giving this team and organization a break! OUR team went from a prolific playoff team year after year and ALWAYS a handful to play especially at home to a "look past" game for every team in the league, EVEN AT ARROWHEAD!!!!!! Less than half the stadium being filled is a disgrace to an organization that USE to have the biggest home field advantage in football!

The Chiefs will again be under the salary cap and for what? To finish with 4, 5, 6 wins??? NOT ACCEPTABLE HUNT!!!! Either step up and run this franchise or move aside and sell the team because you are disgracing what your father worked so hard to build!!!!

~Dear Lord...He didn't mean it, not really, he's just frustrated...please don't let the Chiefs be sold and likely as a result, move them from Kansas City!~

I don't consider myself as one who is giving the Chiefs "benefit of doubt"...I simply stand in Faith year after year as a Chiefs fan. I don't comprehend 'giving up', regardless. Each season is a new season of hope, regardless. Each game day a new game day of hope, regardless.

My definition of being a Chiefs fan is not as simple as being based upon winning or losing. Sure, it's by far more enjoyable if my Chiefs win a game, have a winning season. However, being a Chiefs fan remains enjoyable to me even if my Chiefs have a losing season, even consecutive losing seasons. The Chiefs are indeed a very part of who I am in heart and soul, an important aspect of my life.

Definition - Connie Jo: Noun; Chiefs Fan - a female who is a loyal, enthusiastic, and a passionate supporter of a professional football team located in Kansas City, Missouri, known as The Kansas City Chiefs. This females relentless extreme devotion to her Kansas City Chiefs extends to all aspects of that related. Aspects include, but are not limited to...attending games at Arrowhead Stadium, tailgating with friends and fellow fans, sporting team apparel and gear, as well as collecting team memorabilia. She may appear in character as either rational or irrational when supporting her team. She displays wisdom of team spirit at all times, regardless. Although evidence has not substantiated such, it has been noted that this females blood is red, but accented with a hue of yellowish gold. Records indicate this female became a fan circa 1969-1970.

Drunker Hillbilly
07-02-2010, 07:56 PM
~Dear Lord...He didn't mean it, not really, he's just frustrated...please don't let the Chiefs be sold and likely as a result, move them from Kansas City!~

I don't consider myself as one who is giving the Chiefs "benefit of doubt"...I simply stand in Faith year after year as a Chiefs fan. I don't comprehend 'giving up', regardless. Each season is a new season of hope, regardless. Each game day a new game day of hope, regardless.

My definition of being a Chiefs fan is not as simple as being based upon winning or losing. Sure, it's by far more enjoyable if my Chiefs win a game, have a winning season. However, being a Chiefs fan remains enjoyable to me even if my Chiefs have a losing season, even consecutive losing seasons. The Chiefs are indeed a very part of who I am in heart and soul, an important aspect of my life.

Definition - Connie Jo: Noun; Chiefs Fan - a female who is a loyal, enthusiastic, and a passionate supporter of a professional football team located in Kansas City, Missouri, known as The Kansas City Chiefs. This females relentless extreme devotion to her Kansas City Chiefs extends to all aspects of that related. Aspects include, but are not limited to...attending games at Arrowhead Stadium, tailgating with friends and fellow fans, sporting team apparel and gear, as well as collecting team memorabilia. She may appear in character as either rational or irrational when supporting her team. She displays wisdom of team spirit at all times, regardless. Although evidence has not substantiated such, it has been noted that this females blood is red, but accented with a hue of yellowish gold. Records indicate this female became a fan circa 1969-1970.
Fair enough. However, I beleive you would be in the minority of all of sports fans. Not in the fact that every year you will cheer like heck for your team and always be a fan but in the fact that at some point most fans expect an organization to put a winning product on the field in which they play. People expect to have their hard earned dollars to go to an organization that does everything in it's power to put productive players on the field. If this were not the case, their would be no bags over the heads of fans. There would be full stadiums throughout sports and it would be virtually impossible to get a ticket. In reality what happens is that fans get fed up with the lack of talent that is put on the field that leads to losing year after year after year.

I was at my first Chiefs game when I was 2 years old. Taken by my grandfather who was a ticket holder until the day he died. I will always be a Kansas City Chiefs fan and will always cheer for them to win. I will also always expect them to put a competitive team on the field which they have not done for several years now. Whether a person chooses to look at every season as a new life or a person chooses to disagree with what their team is doing to improve until proven wrong makes no difference to me. I will leave you with this though, if you do not comprehend "giving up", I suggest you channel some of that positive energy to that travesty of a team that Hunt Jr has put on the field for the last three years because he has simply not lived up to the expectation of most Chief fans nor has he done justice to the legacy his father worked so hard to create and I believe there was some "give up" in many players on that gridiron more than once in the last 3 years.

Connie Jo
07-03-2010, 02:02 AM
Fair enough. However, I beleive you would be in the minority of all of sports fans. Not in the fact that every year you will cheer like heck for your team and always be a fan but in the fact that at some point most fans expect an organization to put a winning product on the field in which they play. People expect to have their hard earned dollars to go to an organization that does everything in it's power to put productive players on the field. If this were not the case, their would be no bags over the heads of fans. There would be full stadiums throughout sports and it would be virtually impossible to get a ticket. In reality what happens is that fans get fed up with the lack of talent that is put on the field that leads to losing year after year after year.

I was at my first Chiefs game when I was 2 years old. Taken by my grandfather who was a ticket holder until the day he died. I will always be a Kansas City Chiefs fan and will always cheer for them to win. I will also always expect them to put a competitive team on the field which they have not done for several years now. Whether a person chooses to look at every season as a new life or a person chooses to disagree with what their team is doing to improve until proven wrong makes no difference to me. I will leave you with this though, if you do not comprehend "giving up", I suggest you channel some of that positive energy to that travesty of a team that Hunt Jr has put on the field for the last three years because he has simply not lived up to the expectation of most Chief fans nor has he done justice to the legacy his father worked so hard to create and I believe there was some "give up" in many players on that gridiron more than once in the last 3 years.

To clarify...when I speak of "giving up", it refers to my personality only, as not giving up on myself to be the best Chiefs fan I can be, regardless. :)

I don't disagree with you at all. There was definitely some 'giving up' among the Chiefs, as well as coaching staff, and in the front office. I believe CP's interest became more about profit than winning. I also believe he was about giving his NFL jobless 'buddies' a job, whether they deserved it or not. A good GM will have a balance of interest in both profit & winning, as you can not have one without the other, obviously. CP no doubt took the Chiefs fans for granted, as well as some of the players. Was I upset with CP as a fan...you bet! He's gone now, justifiably so. YEEHAW!

Does Clark Hunt deserve my loyalty as a Chiefs fan?...IMO it's too early for me to make that judgement. I realistically take the thoughts below into consideration...as to why I feel I would be unfairly and prematurely judging Clark at this early stage of his leading the Chiefs Organization, replacing his father.

I consider the following: I'm certain as much as possible was in place prior to the death of Lamar (RIP), related to Clark taking control of the Chiefs franchise and legalities of such. However, there are legalities of which can not take place until a death becomes official. We're not talking taking over Dad's small business or sole proprietorship, we're talking takeover of a family business/dynasty, of which includes an NFL Franchise Team.

Upon Lamar's death Clark became the front guy for the Hunt family representing the Chiefs as an owner, but he does not own the franchise soley. I'm not sure if others share decision making power with him. I've not researched that aspect of the Chiefs Organization, nor Hunt family. I'm not familiar with all the legalties involved after Lamar's (RIP) death, related to the timeline of Clark taking over completely, including his having decision making power/control...assuming he does indeed have that power now.

Lamar passed away in December of 2006. The first season without Lamar's presence in any related aspect was 2007. Not many changes took place during 2007 without Lamar, it may have taken that first season related to legalities transferring power/control over to Clark. Legalities with transferring power not just among the family, but also related to their business dynasty, of which many others are investors, and sit on the BOD. It could be a vote had to take place among a BOD/investors to permanently place Clark in control of decision making related to the Chiefs Organization and/or Franchise.

As well, even though the Chiefs franchise is predominately owned by the Hunt family, the Chiefs franchise is under the NFL corporate umbrella...there are many legalities and by-laws related to change of ownership and/or control of a franchise under that umbrella of the NFL. All of the above can be a lengthy process, much like our government is with 'red tape proceedure' & legalities.

The second season without Lamar was 2008, and that is when we indeed began to see improvements take place with Clark leading the Chiefs Franchise. It began with CP's resignation at the end of the 2008 season. As well, Clark stated in a news conference related to CP's resignation at the end of the 2008 season, "Peterson's resignation has been discussed for a while." We don't know Clarks definition of time related to "for a while"...but I speculate Clark intended to let CP go as soon as he had the power to do so. I had heard rumor in years past, that until Lamar passed away CP would not be fired, the men were tight, and Lamar was known to be a very loyal man.

Timeline recap related to Clark Hunt and his taking control of the Chiefs, what has or has not been accomplished within 2-3 years, depending upon when Clark actually obtained a majority of power/control:
December 2006 - Nearing the end of the season Lamar passes away
Season 2007 - not much happens, possibly a transitional year related to power/control being transferred to Clark.
Season 2008 - CP announces his resignation. Clark makes these related statements: "Peterson's resignation has been discussed for a while. It's a conversation that he and I have had ongoing throughout the season, in terms of 2009, and we both jointly decided that the best interests of the club were served if he stepped down at this point. It will allow me the opportunity to get the search started right away for the new GM. First and foremost, I'll be looking for someone who is a shrewd evaluator of football talent. I would also like somebody who has had experience helping build a winning football team. I want somebody who is a strong leader, an effective communicator and somebody who culturally will blend in well with the Kansas City Chiefs."
2009 Clark announces the hiring of GM Scott Pioli...VIOLA!

I believe Clark wants to build a Super Bowl Chiefs team from scratch, of which he alone can claim credit for as an owner, rather than share credit with his father. I believe he wants earned respect among his NFL peers for his accomplishments & contributions, rather than respect handed to him for no other reason than as Lamar's son. I believe he is his own man, and until I'm proven wrong, that's what I will believe.

WHEW! That ^ up there is a lot of positive typing, if not positive energy! I'm exhausted...too much positive thinking, lol. :)

:chiefs:

Drunker Hillbilly
07-03-2010, 02:14 PM
To clarify...when I speak of "giving up", it refers to my personality only, as not giving up on myself to be the best Chiefs fan I can be, regardless. :)

I don't disagree with you at all. There was definitely some 'giving up' among the Chiefs, as well as coaching staff, and in the front office. I believe CP's interest became more about profit than winning. I also believe he was about giving his NFL jobless 'buddies' a job, whether they deserved it or not. A good GM will have a balance of interest in both profit & winning, as you can not have one without the other, obviously. CP no doubt took the Chiefs fans for granted, as well as some of the players. Was I upset with CP as a fan...you bet! He's gone now, justifiably so. YEEHAW!

Does Clark Hunt deserve my loyalty as a Chiefs fan?...IMO it's too early for me to make that judgement. I realistically take the thoughts below into consideration...as to why I feel I would be unfairly and prematurely judging Clark at this early stage of his leading the Chiefs Organization, replacing his father.

I consider the following: I'm certain as much as possible was in place prior to the death of Lamar (RIP), related to Clark taking control of the Chiefs franchise and legalities of such. However, there are legalities of which can not take place until a death becomes official. We're not talking taking over Dad's small business or sole proprietorship, we're talking takeover of a family business/dynasty, of which includes an NFL Franchise Team.

Upon Lamar's death Clark became the front guy for the Hunt family representing the Chiefs as an owner, but he does not own the franchise soley. I'm not sure if others share decision making power with him. I've not researched that aspect of the Chiefs Organization, nor Hunt family. I'm not familiar with all the legalties involved after Lamar's (RIP) death, related to the timeline of Clark taking over completely, including his having decision making power/control...assuming he does indeed have that power now.

Lamar passed away in December of 2006. The first season without Lamar's presence in any related aspect was 2007. Not many changes took place during 2007 without Lamar, it may have taken that first season related to legalities transferring power/control over to Clark. Legalities with transferring power not just among the family, but also related to their business dynasty, of which many others are investors, and sit on the BOD. It could be a vote had to take place among a BOD/investors to permanently place Clark in control of decision making related to the Chiefs Organization and/or Franchise.

As well, even though the Chiefs franchise is predominately owned by the Hunt family, the Chiefs franchise is under the NFL corporate umbrella...there are many legalities and by-laws related to change of ownership and/or control of a franchise under that umbrella of the NFL. All of the above can be a lengthy process, much like our government is with 'red tape proceedure' & legalities.

The second season without Lamar was 2008, and that is when we indeed began to see improvements take place with Clark leading the Chiefs Franchise. It began with CP's resignation at the end of the 2008 season. As well, Clark stated in a news conference related to CP's resignation at the end of the 2008 season, "Peterson's resignation has been discussed for a while." We don't know Clarks definition of time related to "for a while"...but I speculate Clark intended to let CP go as soon as he had the power to do so. I had heard rumor in years past, that until Lamar passed away CP would not be fired, the men were tight, and Lamar was known to be a very loyal man.

Timeline recap related to Clark Hunt and his taking control of the Chiefs, what has or has not been accomplished within 2-3 years, depending upon when Clark actually obtained a majority of power/control:
December 2006 - Nearing the end of the season Lamar passes away
Season 2007 - not much happens, possibly a transitional year related to power/control being transferred to Clark.
Season 2008 - CP announces his resignation. Clark makes these related statements: "Peterson's resignation has been discussed for a while. It's a conversation that he and I have had ongoing throughout the season, in terms of 2009, and we both jointly decided that the best interests of the club were served if he stepped down at this point. It will allow me the opportunity to get the search started right away for the new GM. First and foremost, I'll be looking for someone who is a shrewd evaluator of football talent. I would also like somebody who has had experience helping build a winning football team. I want somebody who is a strong leader, an effective communicator and somebody who culturally will blend in well with the Kansas City Chiefs."
2009 Clark announces the hiring of GM Scott Pioli...VIOLA!

I believe Clark wants to build a Super Bowl Chiefs team from scratch, of which he alone can claim credit for as an owner, rather than share credit with his father. I believe he wants earned respect among his NFL peers for his accomplishments & contributions, rather than respect handed to him for no other reason than as Lamar's son. I believe he is his own man, and until I'm proven wrong, that's what I will believe.

WHEW! That ^ up there is a lot of positive typing, if not positive energy! I'm exhausted...too much positive thinking, lol. :)

:chiefs:
WOW!! I'm exhausted!! Having said all that, I believe we are of opposing opinions because if in fact what you say is true, I think it would be a disgrace if he wanted to be known as "his own man" rather than taking pride in being "Lamar's son"! That is my opinion but I can say I am never disappointed when someone refer's to me as "Jim's son". I have no problem with him wanting respect from other owners but he needs to realize and embrace his place in the league and know that he will ALWAYS be Lamar's son and would not be in the position he is if it weren't for the unfortunate death his father. Obviously I am basing this on your possible scenario and don't know his feeling either but in the case that you have laid out, I would be disappointed if he weere trying to get out of the shadow of his father who was vital to the progression of the sport we love. This may sound negative but it is not. More of a pride thing with me. Kind of like putting a competitive team on the field.

Connie Jo
07-03-2010, 09:20 PM
WOW!! I'm exhausted!! Having said all that, I believe we are of opposing opinions because if in fact what you say is true, I think it would be a disgrace if he wanted to be known as "his own man" rather than taking pride in being "Lamar's son"! That is my opinion but I can say I am never disappointed when someone refer's to me as "Jim's son". I have no problem with him wanting respect from other owners but he needs to realize and embrace his place in the league and know that he will ALWAYS be Lamar's son and would not be in the position he is if it weren't for the unfortunate death his father. Obviously I am basing this on your possible scenario and don't know his feeling either but in the case that you have laid out, I would be disappointed if he weere trying to get out of the shadow of his father who was vital to the progression of the sport we love. This may sound negative but it is not. More of a pride thing with me. Kind of like putting a competitive team on the field.

No, you're either mis-comprehending, or taking out of context, haha. Although a man may be shown respect for who his father is/was...as a matter of self respect & dignity, a man also has to earn and deserve respect in his own right for the person he is, not simply for who his father is or was...yes or no? Am I making sense?

His own man in the aspect that he will be recognized and respected in his own right for a successful Chiefs franchise, as well as participation in the NFL as a franchise owner. I'm sure Lamar would expect no less from his son...to make his own place among his peers, respectively. I would hope Lamar raised in Clark a leader, not a follower.

Of course he'll always be Lamar's son, and I've no doubt he is very proud & honored as such. However, he is Lamar's son, not his clone...he's his own man, with his own personality, independent opinions and thoughts different from what his father's were. If he's not his own man, a leader...then our Chiefs are in a heap of trouble for sure! He can't run a franchise successfully in his fathers shadow...IE: 'your father would've done this, your father would've done that', 'your father did it this way'. It's a different NFL world today...he has to be his own man, a leader in his own right to achieve success.

Surely the last thing he wants is to destroy his fathers Chiefs legacy, that indeed would be a disgrace towards his father. For Clark to build a successful Chiefs franchise in his own right, would be the ultimate show of respect and honor towards his father and the Hunt family name. Then one could respectively declare Clark is his fathers son, so to speak in characteristics of leadership. :D

Drunker Hillbilly
07-03-2010, 09:36 PM
No, you're either mis-comprehending, or taking out of context, haha. Although a man may be shown respect for who his father is/was...as a matter of self respect & dignity, a man also has to earn and deserve respect in his own right for the person he is, not simply for who his father is or was...yes or no? Am I making sense?

His own man in the aspect that he will be recognized and respected in his own right for a successful Chiefs franchise, as well as participation in the NFL as a franchise owner. I'm sure Lamar would expect no less from his son...to make his own place among his peers, respectively. I would hope Lamar raised in Clark a leader, not a follower.

Of course he'll always be Lamar's son, and I've no doubt he is very proud & honored as such. However, he is Lamar's son, not his clone...he's his own man, with his own personality, independent opinions and thoughts different from what his father's were. If he's not his own man, a leader...then our Chiefs are in a heap of trouble for sure! He can't run a franchise successfully in his fathers shadow...IE: 'your father would've done this, your father would've done that', 'your father did it this way'. It's a different NFL world today...he has to be his own man, a leader in his own right to achieve success.

Surely the last thing he wants is to destroy his fathers Chiefs legacy, that indeed would be a disgrace towards his father. For Clark to build a successful Chiefs franchise in his own right, would be the ultimate show of respect and honor towards his father and the Hunt family name. Then one could respectively declare Clark is his fathers son, so to speak in characteristics of leadership. :D
His own legacy will come to life with continuing his fathers winning ways. To this point, he is off to a very bad start!

Connie Jo
07-03-2010, 09:58 PM
I agree...and that's more or less the point I was trying to make. He has to succed and win his way...just as his father did, as his own man. Then he will truly follow in his fathers footsteps, and no doubt Lamar will be gleaming with pride for his son from up above. :)

That said, keep in mind that Lamar as an owner didn't always have a successful and winning Chiefs team...after SB IV they didn't do much until 1989 forward into the 90's. That's a much longer dry spell than what Clark has to his credit, haha. Let's hope Clark doesn't have as lengthy a dry spell between Super Bowl appearances/victories. :)

Drunker Hillbilly
07-03-2010, 10:08 PM
I agree...and that's more or less the point I was trying to make. He has to succed and win his way...just as his father did, as his own man. Then he will truly follow in his fathers footsteps, and no doubt Lamar will be gleaming with pride for his son from up above. :)

That said, keep in mind that Lamar as an owner didn't always have a successful and winning Chiefs team...after SB IV they didn't do much until 1989 forward into the 90's. That's a much longer dry spell than what Clark has to his credit, haha. Let's hope Clark doesn't have as lengthy a dry spell between Super Bowl appearances/victories. :)
Once you as an owner have put your stamp on things with success, it's a little easier for people to accept a dry spell. Lamar achieved success VERY early :D and then was successful again. I just hope Clark can get his train rollin because as I said, he is off to a bad start! This year is key in my opinion or the fans will be even more crucial of him as an owner than they already are. Maybe you included?:lol:

Connie Jo
07-03-2010, 10:30 PM
Never know, I might...but...and oh don't ya hate those 'but's'? hahaha I still see it as being too soon to judge Clark as a failure...realistically he's only been at the helm for 3 yrs, maybe only 2. I think he accomplished quite a bit just with asking for CP's resignation & hiring Pioli, at least for now.

Hey...I just took homemade oatmeal raisin cookies out of the oven, & popped open a Miller beer...want some, I'll share? That's my damn dinner tonight...cookies and beer, hahaha. NOT GOOD!
:bananen_smilies046:

Drunker Hillbilly
07-04-2010, 02:04 PM
Tease!!!!!! At least you coulda posted a picture! LOL

Connie Jo
07-07-2010, 01:34 AM
Tease!!!!!! At least you coulda posted a picture! LOL

Sorry, I didn't think about a pic! hahaha Heck, I didn't eat but one cookie, had a bit of a beer buzz going on, was getting ready to beer buzz email a couple people, woulda been some funny stuff no doubt! Cell rang, gal from Kid Rock's website needed help...2 hrs later all I had was a sore ear and cramp in my hand...buzz went bye-bye, no beer buzz emails. :(

tornadospotter
07-10-2010, 12:15 PM
~Dear Lord...He didn't mean it, not really, he's just frustrated...please don't let the Chiefs be sold and likely as a result, move them from Kansas City!~

I don't consider myself as one who is giving the Chiefs "benefit of doubt"...I simply stand in Faith year after year as a Chiefs fan. I don't comprehend 'giving up', regardless. Each season is a new season of hope, regardless. Each game day a new game day of hope, regardless.

My definition of being a Chiefs fan is not as simple as being based upon winning or losing. Sure, it's by far more enjoyable if my Chiefs win a game, have a winning season. However, being a Chiefs fan remains enjoyable to me even if my Chiefs have a losing season, even consecutive losing seasons. The Chiefs are indeed a very part of who I am in heart and soul, an important aspect of my life.

Definition - Connie Jo: Noun; Chiefs Fan - a female who is a loyal, enthusiastic, and a passionate supporter of a professional football team located in Kansas City, Missouri, known as The Kansas City Chiefs. This females relentless extreme devotion to her Kansas City Chiefs extends to all aspects of that related. Aspects include, but are not limited to...attending games at Arrowhead Stadium, tailgating with friends and fellow fans, sporting team apparel and gear, as well as collecting team memorabilia. She may appear in character as either rational or irrational when supporting her team. She displays wisdom of team spirit at all times, regardless. Although evidence has not substantiated such, it has been noted that this females blood is red, but accented with a hue of yellowish gold. Records indicate this female became a fan circa 1969-1970.
I think I love this Chief's fan, CJ you are right. :chiefs:

Ryfo18
01-10-2011, 06:45 PM
Sorry to ESPN and Bill Barnwell for taking this from their "Insider's" page, but this is EXACTLY how I feel. The Chiefs are still shopping for essentials like Milk and Eggs and daddy goes out and buys a nice $200 bottle of wine to go with the saltine crackers we'll be having for dinner.


Take it away, Bill...

There are two things we know for sure about the Chiefs and their 3-4 defense: You need a very good nose tackle to succeed in the NFL while playing a 3-4 scheme, and the Chiefs don't have one. Veteran Ron Edwards is a stopgap, and while he's game to try, he just can't handle the responsibilities that an excellent nose tackle needs to take care of so that the linebackers behind him can make plays.

Another thing we know is that a good nose tackle is hard to find. When teams get one, they tend to hold onto them until they either get hurt or fall out of favor with the organization -- think about the careers of Jamal Williams in San Diego or Kris Jenkins in Carolina as reasonable examples.

So, with three of the first 50 picks in the draft, how did a team that ranked 31st in run defense DVOA a year ago fail to upgrade its front seven? Taking Eric Berry will help things, but the Chiefs' two second-round picks were a running back (Dexter McCluster) they plan on converting to wide receiver, and a cornerback (Javier Arenas) who will play behind (as their #3 CB in nickel packages.)

Meanwhile, who was left on the board for each of those picks? Mammoth Alabama lineman Terrence Cody. At 354 pounds, Cody would have been the ideal two-gap space-filler the Chiefs need to clog running lanes and create opportunities for defensive playmakers like, coincidentally, Eric Berry. Instead, the Chiefs passed on him and Cody went to Baltimore, where he'll help Haloti Ngata create those opportunities for Ray Lewis and Terrell Suggs. Oh boy.
***************************

The McCluster pick was ok. The offense definitely needed more weapons. It's the Arenas pick that pisses me off. Pioli and Haley decided to revamp the entire defense into a 3-4 scheme. Fine. But you'd think that after 2 free agency periods and 2 drafts that they'd find the cornerstone piece of the 3-4 in a good NT. Building a 3-4 defense without a good NT is like implementing the wild-cat offense as your primary offense and having Jamarcus Russell at QB... IT'S NOT GONNA WORK!!

Even later, the Chiefs had a chance at taking another NT in the 4th with Cam Thomas...however, they decide to trade up and select an oft injured TE who is essentially going the be the #3 TE on the roster.

If Glenn Dorsey wasn't good enough last season to be a NT, why would he be good enough this year? If the Chiefs DO move him inside, who takes over at DE? The Chiefs NEEDED help at 3 of 4 major positions on defense and only filled 1. ILB, NT or DE, and Safety aren't complimentary defensive positions like a nickel CB is. If you build a defense and had your choice of a sub-par NT or sub-par Nickel CB, the smart person would pick the better NT over the NCB.

If you're good in the middle, your team is greatly improved. It's the same in nearly EVERY sport. It's MUCH easier to build around a great Center or PF in basketball than it is a great SG, SF or PG. In baseball, if your team is performing at above average to great at Catcher, SS, 2B, and CF, your team defense will be MUCH better than if you were above-average to great at LF, RF, 3B, and 1B.

If you look at the Chiefs, it's no coincidence that they have had a poor record the last few years because they've been below average up the middle. Their QB has been below average since 2006. Their Center hasn't been average since Weigman left. Their DTs have been HORRID due to either talent or inexperience. The last ILB who performed at an average level for the Chiefs was Kawika Mitchell, and their Safeties haven't performed any higher than average... and that's being generous.

So, our middle:
QB: CHECK- I thought Pioli pulled a GREAT deal getting Cassel (AND Vrabel) for just a 2nd round pick last year.

C: REQUIRED- Weigman COULD be better than Niswanger, but at his age, he's definitely not someone we can build with. He's a stop-gap AT BEST.

NT: REQUIRED- Neither Ron Edwards nor Glenn Dorsey is the answer at NT for the Chiefs. Again, a 3-4 defense is primarily built around a NT and 2 off-seasons since Pioli's arrival and the Chiefs' switch to the 3-4, we STILL don't have one...

ILB: REQUIRED- For whatever reason, Haley won't play Derrick Johnson. Neither Cory Mays, Jevon Belcher, nor Demarrio Williams are the answer for the Chiefs at the ILB position. I think they've got ONE ILB on their roster who the Chiefs could build around but I doubt very seriously that the Chiefs will keep DJ after this season.

Safety: Check- The Eric Berry pick was a good pick. I think they could've found another safety with 2B that would have been serviceable, but Berry COULD have an Ed Reed/Troy Polamalu affect for the Chiefs' defense. I think Berry and Page are still going to have trouble in the secondary this season because the Chiefs did NOTHING with their front 7 to help their secondary. We're still going to rank near the bottom in sacks and rushing yards allowed because we don't have a NT or ILBs. When a team can run at will, that's going to do nothing but open up the passing game. Berry was a good pick. However, the Chiefs have failed AGAIN this season to improve their defense of any consequence. But, even if Eric Berry can play at the level of an Ed Reed or Polamalu, you have to remember that those guys were able to roam and make plays because they had guys like Casey Hampton, Tony Saregusa, Haloti Ngata, Ray Lewis, Terrell Suggs, Adalius Thomas, Larry Foote, and James Harrison performing in front of them. The Chiefs don't have NTs and LBs of that caliber on this roster. So, until they get those pieces in place, expect Berry and the rest of the secondary to have a tough time.

Exactly....WRONG