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DC_Chiefsfan
05-13-2010, 11:01 AM
should have been stripped of his defensive rookie of the year award. No questions about it. The NFL is now sending mixed signals to young football players everywhere that although using Steroids is bad, you can still succeed and be rewarded for using them. What do you guys think? (sorry for the non-chiefs post guys, just not a lot of chiefs news going on).

Ryfo18
05-13-2010, 11:08 AM
I agree, he should not get the Defensive ROY. The guy seems like he has been a steroid monkey, and thus a cheater, since high school. I don't think the NFL is sending any messages though, the AP votes for Defensive ROY.

DC_Chiefsfan
05-13-2010, 11:17 AM
I agree, he should not get the Defensive ROY. The guy seems like he has been a steroid monkey, and thus a cheater, since high school. I don't think the NFL is sending any messages though, the AP votes for Defensive ROY.

ah good point.

bwilliams
05-13-2010, 11:42 AM
First, Cushing did not test positive for steroids. He tested positive for hCG. hCG is used after a steroid cycle to kickstart normal testosterone production. And he tested positive for hCG early in the season. Which means there's a pretty good probability that he was juicing in college and stopped for the pros.

Second, if you're going to strip Cushing, strip Peppers and Merriman of their ROYs too. And put an asterick next to every SB team that had a player who took a banned substance (hint: all of them).

This stuff isn't retroactive. And it shouldn't be.

Ryfo18
05-13-2010, 12:43 PM
Just wanted to share this tidbit I got from Rotoworld.com:

"One NFL GM tells Thomas George of AOL Fanhouse that suspended LB Brian Cushing's steroids use dates back to high school.
'We did our research on him before the draft last year and we concluded he was a chronic steroid user dating back to high school,' said the unnamed general manager. 'More than a few people were surprised when he passed the steroid tests at the Combine. I think the guy became a pro at masking it, until he was caught. I definitely would have taken my vote back on (the Defensive Rookie of the Year) award if I had one.'"

DC_Chiefsfan
05-13-2010, 01:45 PM
First, Cushing did not test positive for steroids. He tested positive for hCG. hCG is used after a steroid cycle to kickstart normal testosterone production. And he tested positive for hCG early in the season. Which means there's a pretty good probability that he was juicing in college and stopped for the pros.

Second, if you're going to strip Cushing, strip Peppers and Merriman of their ROYs too. And put an asterick next to every SB team that had a player who took a banned substance (hint: all of them).

This stuff isn't retroactive. And it shouldn't be.

You're right, he didn't test positive for steroid use. But testing positive for hCG indicates recent steroid use. hCG is still a PED and not allowed in the NFL. He should have been stripped, just like Merriman and Peppers should have. This test showed up positive in September during the season. Hence, strip him and give it to a guy who didn't need PEDs, Jairus Byrd.

bwilliams
05-13-2010, 02:27 PM
You're right, he didn't test positive for steroid use. But testing positive for hCG indicates recent steroid use. hCG is still a PED and not allowed in the NFL. He should have been stripped, just like Merriman and Peppers should have. This test showed up positive in September during the season. Hence, strip him and give it to a guy who didn't need PEDs, Jairus Byrd.

Let me put it another way: there is no evidence Cushing took steroids while in the NFL, although a great deal of evidence exists that he did in college. Traces of hCG (which isn't a masking agent - it kickstarts testosterone production after artificial sources have been deprived) were found at the beginning of the 2009 season, which probably means he'd abandoned them by then. If that's so, there's no cause to strip the award.

AkChief49
05-13-2010, 03:11 PM
The AP had a chance to right a wrong. Finally, I thought there would be consequences. That's just my opinion. The fact that HCG was in his body is proof that he was doping. Was he not coming off a knee injury?. The guy cheated, period. After Barry Bonds and how he was crucified by the media, I thought for sure they would send a loud, clear, message here. Steroid use should not be tolerated at any level of sports. Again, that's just my opinion. HCG human chorionic gonadotropin Anabolic SteroidnbspProfiles - Steroid . com
(http://www.steroid.com/HCG.php)

yashi
05-13-2010, 05:02 PM
The AP are idiots. You get caught cheating (yes cheating, he took a banned substance and got caught), and at the end of the day the worst that happens to you is that everyone knows you were taking a female fertility drug to make your testicles normal again. Ridiculous.

This image is insane. Nothing like 4 years of roids to turn you from a mushy freshman to a borderline cartoon character.

http://www.thedirty.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/cstrh23e8ggb.jpg

DC_Chiefsfan
05-13-2010, 07:37 PM
hcg is still a banned substance and he tested positive for it in September DURING the season employed by the National Football League. If these results would have surfaced before season's end he would have been suspended and not eligible for the award. There is no reason that should be any different now. From what I read, you either take hCG during your steroid cycle or immediately after and it usually takes 2-3 weeks to raise your testosterone levels. This means he was most likely using during training camp and possibly during the actual season, which is unacceptable.

Ryfo18
05-13-2010, 09:57 PM
If you ask me, him being in the NFL is questionable. It seems like he cheated through high school and college to get where he is. I won't be disappointed if his numbers steadily drop as the effects from steroids wear off.

chief31
05-14-2010, 04:34 AM
I am kind of with Bwill on this.

At the end of the day he was not found to have used performance enhancing drugs during his rookie season. The chemical that was found certainly IMPLIES recent use of them. But implication is not legitimate evidence.

I know he tested positive for a banned substance. I just don't think that you take back an award for that alone.

If he is the 'roid-machine that is suggested, then I imagine he will get caught again, or fail to play at the same level without them. Otherwise, I really can't find a way to be too harsh on the guy.

Having some unnamed GM say that someone else, who knows who that is, told him the guys is a big steroid user isn't terribly convincing evidence either. At least not to me.

brish
05-14-2010, 05:24 AM
I am kind of with Bwill on this.

At the end of the day he was not found to have used performance enhancing drugs during his rookie season. The chemical that was found certainly IMPLIES recent use of them. But implication is not legitimate evidence.

I know he tested positive for a banned substance. I just don't think that you take back an award for that alone.

If he is the 'roid-machine that is suggested, then I imagine he will get caught again, or fail to play at the same level without them. Otherwise, I really can't find a way to be too harsh on the guy.

Having some unnamed GM say that someone else, who knows who that is, told him the guys is a big steroid user isn't terribly convincing evidence either. At least not to me.

Just look at him.. It is usually pretty easy to spot the people who have been juicing, just by looking at their muscle structure.
It's not exactly a scientific method, but it gives you a hint.

Compare him to Thomas Jones for instance, TJ is a workout freak, and he has HUGE guns :D
But his body looks way more natural than Cushings does in that picture..

It would be interresting to compare that college picture to a picture of him now..

Sn@keIze
05-14-2010, 05:47 AM
If you look at the competition for DROTR then you can see why he wasnt stripped.

buffman316
05-14-2010, 01:16 PM
If he is as good as he was last year, next year then I will give hi props. I agree, if you break the rules, there should be a punishment. Look at Merriman, he is half the player after getting busted.

KristofLaw
05-14-2010, 04:49 PM
If he is as good as he was last year, next year then I will give hi props. I agree, if you break the rules, there should be a punishment. Look at Merriman, he is half the player after getting busted.

And he was punished... I agree with chief31 that here-say isn't grounds enough to take the award from the kid and for the most part this is what the AP voters agree upon as well. He had a monster rookie season even helping, maybe even pushing, the Texans to 9-7. Unless he snuck the 'roids all year, I still say he's got some natural abilities even if he's the steroid abuser many are certain he is.

Dumb moves throughout his early career it does appear though.....

DC_Chiefsfan
05-14-2010, 06:52 PM
I am kind of with Bwill on this.

At the end of the day he was not found to have used performance enhancing drugs during his rookie season. The chemical that was found certainly IMPLIES recent use of them. But implication is not legitimate evidence.

I know he tested positive for a banned substance. I just don't think that you take back an award for that alone.

If he is the 'roid-machine that is suggested, then I imagine he will get caught again, or fail to play at the same level without them. Otherwise, I really can't find a way to be too harsh on the guy.

Having some unnamed GM say that someone else, who knows who that is, told him the guys is a big steroid user isn't terribly convincing evidence either. At least not to me.


hCG is a performance enhancing drug, and is banned. He tested positive for it during the regular season (in September).

wichitaj
05-14-2010, 09:33 PM
take the titles away from the Pats for the whole "video taping" BS as well.

no way the Rams should have lost to them, they were on FIRE..

chief31
05-14-2010, 11:33 PM
Just look at him.. It is usually pretty easy to spot the people who have been juicing, just by looking at their muscle structure.
It's not exactly a scientific method, but it gives you a hint.

Compare him to Thomas Jones for instance, TJ is a workout freak, and he has HUGE guns :D
But his body looks way more natural than Cushings does in that picture..

It would be interresting to compare that college picture to a picture of him now..

I am not so smart as to attempt to say that I can spot steroid users by eye, nor are experts. That's why they do the testing.

Maybe they could save some money by having you attend each team's training camp and just point out which guys should be banned from the league.

Seein' as how you are a Chiefs fan, I hope they go that route. But just remember to check all Chargers, Broncos and Raiders a little extra.:D


hCG is a performance enhancing drug, and is banned. He tested positive for it during the regular season (in September).

No. It is used to return certain bodily functions back to normal after steroid use. That's 'normal' not 'enhanced'.

rbedgood
05-15-2010, 01:26 AM
hCG is used to mask the use of PEDs...it in itself is not a PED. Frankly the precedent was set with Julius Peppers and a few others. The award wasn't ever going to be stripped.

The argument to do so was about as faulty as the argument to remove Lawrence Taylor from the HOF. Hell OJ Simpson is still there and people want to remove LT?

Chiefster
05-15-2010, 04:29 AM
hCG is used to mask the use of PEDs...it in itself is not a PED. Frankly the precedent was set with Julius Peppers and a few others. The award wasn't ever going to be stripped.

The argument to do so was about as faulty as the argument to remove Lawrence Taylor from the HOF. Hell OJ Simpson is still there and people want to remove LT?

Excellent point.

DC_Chiefsfan
05-15-2010, 08:09 AM
hCG is used to mask the use of PEDs...it in itself is not a PED. Frankly the precedent was set with Julius Peppers and a few others. The award wasn't ever going to be stripped.

The argument to do so was about as faulty as the argument to remove Lawrence Taylor from the HOF. Hell OJ Simpson is still there and people want to remove LT?

It most certainly is a PED, no doubt about it. It can be used in the same way as Steroids to increase muscle development.

"Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG)
hCG is a naturally occurring protein hormone produced by the developing fetus and detected in most home pregnancy kits. hCG stimulates the development of natural male and female sex steroids. The increase in testosterone levels in males by the use of hCG would stimulate muscle development as with anabolic steroids. hCG is not banned in female athletes because it would not lead to muscle development and might naturally occur in high levels if the athlete is pregnant. The side effects of hCG in males are the same as those of anabolic steroids." -lifted from a simple google search.

stricken721
05-15-2010, 11:42 AM
It most certainly is a PED, no doubt about it. It can be used in the same way as Steroids to increase muscle development.

"Human Chorionic Gonadotropin (hCG)
hCG is a naturally occurring protein hormone produced by the developing fetus and detected in most home pregnancy kits. hCG stimulates the development of natural male and female sex steroids. The increase in testosterone levels in males by the use of hCG would stimulate muscle development as with anabolic steroids. hCG is not banned in female athletes because it would not lead to muscle development and might naturally occur in high levels if the athlete is pregnant. The side effects of hCG in males are the same as those of anabolic steroids." -lifted from a simple google search.

Just out of curiosity what is your source on this? To my knowledge in men hCG is a seminal fluid. I would go into further explanation but I don't want to risk getting banned. I'm a nursing student and found this out by looking in my text book and medical dicitionary. So it could be completely natural when it showed up on the PED test.

As for my opinion.. Steroids alter the integrity of any sport. If Brian Cushing did in fact do real PED's then his punishment is right. Do I think he should be stripped of the DROY? No. I think the re-vote on ROY was stupid.. Possibly the only other guy that could make a case for DROY was Clay Mathews but it was a long shot. It will be interesting to see how the Texans go about punishing him since they have never had to deal with a situation like this in their short history.

AkChief49
05-15-2010, 02:43 PM
"HCG is clinically used to induce ovulation and treat ovarian disorders in women, as well stimulate the testes hypogonadal (underproduction of testosterone) men. It is also used in the treatment of undescended testicles in young males. HCG offers no potential performance enhancement in female athletes, but does prove to be very useful in male athletes especially those that use AAS." this is from steroid.com- the link on my earlier post. :beat_DeadHorse::beat_DeadHorse::beat_DeadHorse:I know, I continue to flog the proverbial dead horse:meow:

DC_Chiefsfan
05-15-2010, 03:55 PM
It was an article written by Craig Freudenrich, Ph.D. hCG is most definitely a naturally occurring substance, but typically these tests are looking for levels well above "normal". The irrefutable fact that it increases testosterone is a clear indication that it can aide with increasing muscle development, thus a performance enhancer. I'm by no means an expert, but my B.S. is in Biological Sciences and everything I've read has been consistent and reputable.

tornadospotter
05-15-2010, 10:54 PM
So is that a blue pill, that Chiefster is fond off?

Chiefster
05-17-2010, 04:41 AM
So is that a blue pill, that Chiefster is fond off?

This thread has in deed proven very educational.