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bwilliams
06-17-2010, 10:46 AM
http://www.walterfootball.com/offseason2010kc.php

bbacker51
06-17-2010, 11:02 AM
I agree with some.......mostly what he says about Herm. Herm did some long term damage to the players that still linger there. If I were getting paid to write, I would guess a 3 win season too. That way when I'm wrong I could say that old phrase "who knew". This guy is like a restaurant reviewer. Peter King picked the Saints to end up 24th overall in the leage last year. Hard telling, but my guess would be 8-8 at worst for KC this year. :sterb184: :sterb003: :smilie_shoot: :2bang9hj:

pbatrucker
06-17-2010, 11:56 AM
About what I'd expect from you, picking that source. Walter has been down on anything Chiefs for years.
His site is good for finding information for the draft, not much else.
You can have your negative opinions and out looks, I'll live with mine.

bwilliams
06-17-2010, 12:07 PM
About what I'd expect from you, picking that source. Walter has been down on anything Chiefs for years.
His site is good for finding information for the draft, not much else.
You can have your negative opinions and out looks, I'll live with mine.

Our team hasn't been good for years. There's probably a correlation.

The good news is that one of us is right and one of us is wrong. Time will be able to tell us which one is which.

I do find it funny that people are never able to say why they think we're going to be better this season than last one. Other than the fact that they really, really, really hope that we will. Oh, and because we drafted PLAYMAKERS!

bbacker51
06-17-2010, 12:11 PM
We'll be better with the 2 new coordinators.....for starters. The second reason we'll be better is that we have been so bad!!!!!!

bwilliams
06-17-2010, 12:21 PM
We'll be better with the 2 new coordinators.....for starters. The second reason we'll be better is that we have been so bad!!!!!!

The first reason just doesn't convince me. Weis and Crennel had good runs six years ago with New England. They both have flamed out since. And both coordinators had a whole lot more talent on NE than they do here in KC.

And the second reason is what I said. People just really, really, really want it to be so.

Three7s
06-17-2010, 01:51 PM
I'm not the biggest Cassel supporter, but blaming him for his completion percentage shows how much of an ignorant idiot he is. I like how he didn't mention the Chiefs leading the league in drops, which is WHY Cassel coudln't get to 60% or better.

I agree about his arm-strength though, it's not good enough. Other than that, most of what he says is the cookie-cutter junk that every pessimist would say. Nothing new.

Seek
06-17-2010, 02:02 PM
I'm not the biggest Cassel supporter, but blaming him for his completion percentage shows how much of an ignorant idiot he is. I like how he didn't mention the Chiefs leading the league in drops, which is WHY Cassel coudln't get to 60% or better.

I agree about his arm-strength though, it's not good enough. Other than that, most of what he says is the cookie-cutter junk that every pessimist would say. Nothing new.

Good points. MY favorite all time QB for the Chiefs is Trent Green. He didn't have great arm strength and had a similiar first year with the Chiefs as Cassel did. Once DV fixed the offensive line, Trent excelled.

I saw nothing from Cassel last year to make me think he couldn't do the same as Trent Green did. He actually had a better 1st season given the circumstances. Can you imagine our offense with Tony G still on this team.

bwilliams
06-17-2010, 02:24 PM
I'm not the biggest Cassel supporter, but blaming him for his completion percentage shows how much of an ignorant idiot he is. I like how he didn't mention the Chiefs leading the league in drops, which is WHY Cassel coudln't get to 60% or better.

I agree about his arm-strength though, it's not good enough. Other than that, most of what he says is the cookie-cutter junk that every pessimist would say. Nothing new.

Or, to look at it another way, we had so many drops because our weak-armed QB kept getting his wide receivers killed by continually throwing into traffic.

Three7s
06-17-2010, 02:32 PM
Or, to look at it another way, we had so many drops because our weak-armed QB kept getting his wide receivers killed by continually throwing into traffic.
Dunno about that.....I saw quite a few that just bounced off their hands.......

pbatrucker
06-17-2010, 02:45 PM
Or, to look at it another way, we had so many drops because our weak-armed QB kept getting his wide receivers killed by continually throwing into traffic.
AT times, like any other QB, Cassel did force the ball. You can't blame all the dropped passes on him. Cassel's arm is stronger than most people give him credit for. There are many HOF QB's who didn't have cannons for arms, they were just smarter than most.
As far as why the Chiefs will be better.
1) Better coaches.
2) Better conditioned.
3) A year in the system.
4) What looks like a good draft.
5) Great team attitude.
6 Betterr players.
Now it seems some people believe the only way the Chiefs can improve is if they do things their way.
Those people need to take off the blinders and admit there is more than one way to skin a cat. And also realize the NFL today is not the same league it was a few years ago.

Connie Jo
06-17-2010, 03:08 PM
Our team hasn't been good for years. There's probably a correlation.

The good news is that one of us is right and one of us is wrong. Time will be able to tell us which one is which.

I do find it funny that people are never able to say why they think we're going to be better this season than last one. Other than the fact that they really, really, really hope that we will. Oh, and because we drafted PLAYMAKERS!

bwilliams...your statement saying people have never given legitimate reasons for why they believe the Chiefs will be better this season...is 100% inaccurate. There have been many, many, many debate posts made with giving legitimate reasons as to why one believes the Chiefs will be better this season...including my own. Some of those reasons have ranged from positive coaching changes to draft choices, as well, the Chiefs Organization doing all they can to bring fans back to Arrowhead filling seats...a possible positive to improving the team with the 12th man factor.

You may not agree with such legitimate reasons, but that doesn't make them non legitimate any more than your reasons for not believing the Chiefs will be better.

Your continuous negativity use to irritate me in the beginning, but as time has passed I've actually found myself to have grown fond of your negative posts. They make me giggle, and doing so is always a positive life aspect! Thanks!! :D

Out of curiosity...are you planning on attending our annual Chiefs Crowd tailgating get together the season opener...MNF? If so, I want to practice making funny faces in advance, so I can direct some towards you! HA! I just wanna know if you smile and giggle too, or always frown!

:lol:

bwilliams
06-17-2010, 03:16 PM
AT times, like any other QB, Cassel did force the ball. You can't blame all the dropped passes on him. Cassel's arm is stronger than most people give him credit for. There are many HOF QB's who didn't have cannons for arms, they were just smarter than most.
As far as why the Chiefs will be better.
1) Better coaches.
2) Better conditioned.
3) A year in the system.
4) What looks like a good draft.
5) Great team attitude.
6 Betterr players.
Now it seems some people believe the only way the Chiefs can improve is if they do things their way.
Those people need to take off the blinders and admit there is more than one way to skin a cat. And also realize the NFL today is not the same league it was a few years ago.

I don't blame Cassel for every drop. There were many passes that bounced off players hands. That's true for every QB. But there were many, many others that were the result of a WR trying to catch a pass in traffic and getting clobbered.

There are a lot of ways to build a winning NFL team. Some, like the Colts, Packers, and Steelers, have focused on homegrowing stars and building their talent around their scheme, rather than vice versa. Others, like the Pats and Saints, have focused on signing a few superstar players, some yound talent, and a lot of serviceable vets, and work their schemes around their players, especially on defense. Some, like the Ravens and Vikings, are somewhere in between. To some teams (Colts, Steelers), off-field character is extremely important. To others (Pats, Ravens), it isn't as important.

But no winning team ignores its ability to protect the passer, its ability to stop the run, or its ability to rush the passer. Because those are the three things every team needs to win games in the NFL.

bwilliams
06-17-2010, 03:21 PM
bwilliams...your statement saying people have never given legitimate reasons for why they believe the Chiefs will be better this season...is 100% inaccurate. There have been many, many, many debate posts made with giving legitimate reasons as to why one believes the Chiefs will be better this season...including my own. Some of those reasons have ranged from positive coaching changes to draft choices, as well, the Chiefs Organization doing all they can to bring fans back to Arrowhead filling seats...a possible positive to improving the team with the 12th man factor.

You may not agree with such legitimate reasons, but that doesn't make them non legitimate any more than your reasons for not believing the Chiefs will be better.

Your continuous negativity use to irritate me in the beginning, but as time has passed I've actually found myself to have grown fond of your negative posts. They make me giggle, and doing so is always a positive life aspect! Thanks!! :D

Out of curiosity...are you planning on attending our annual Chiefs Crowd tailgating get together the season opener...MNF? If so, I want to practice making funny faces in advance, so I can direct some towards you! HA! I just wanna know if you smile and giggle too, or always frown!

:lol:
I dunno. You're right that the statement was probably too overencompassing. Some people do have legitimate reasons for thinking we'll be better.

But it bugs me to no end that people (main) excuses usually boil down to their hope that every underperforming player we have takes a magical step forward because we hired two coordinators, both of whom were fired in disgrace from their last coaching jobs.

I'm unfortunately out of the country on business every August to December. I get to watch NFL games on a torrent site, but I don't get to go to any of the games.

bbacker51
06-17-2010, 03:28 PM
You don't think that Weiss and Crennel are an improvement?

Canada
06-17-2010, 03:31 PM
I dunno. You're right that the statement was probably too overencompassing. Some people do have legitimate reasons for thinking we'll be better.

But it bugs me to no end that people (main) excuses usually boil down to their hope that every underperforming player we have takes a magical step forward because we hired two coordinators, both of whom were fired in disgrace from their last coaching jobs.

I'm unfortunately out of the country on business every August to December. I get to watch NFL games on a torrent site, but I don't get to go to any of the games.

Both of whom have also won 5 or 6 superbowls together.

As for underperforming players, you dont think a little NFL experience can make a player better? We have two top 5 picks on our D line, but expecting some improvement out of them is out of the question?

On top of that, add in a decent draft, some time in the system and all around better coaching is why most people here think we will have an improved team.

It bugs me to no end, that no matter what reason anyone has to say we have improved, you have a differing opinion with no real basis.

You say we can't rush the passer, but I think our secondary will help our pass rush greatly, can't protect the passer, Lilja and Wiegmann will improve our line, and I have already addressed the d line. If you have any reasonable argument against any of this, then I would love to hear it, but we are getting tired of hearing that we will be bad because we were bed before. Have we gone from worst to SB contender? Probably not, do we have a legitimate shot at winning our division with a relatively easy schedule and some improvement? Absolutely. ONce u r in the playoffs....who know? You gotta believe evey once in a while man, if u think they are never gonna win, why do you turn the game on?

Hayvern
06-17-2010, 04:52 PM
I'm not the biggest Cassel supporter, but blaming him for his completion percentage shows how much of an ignorant idiot he is. I like how he didn't mention the Chiefs leading the league in drops, which is WHY Cassel coudln't get to 60% or better.

I agree about his arm-strength though, it's not good enough. Other than that, most of what he says is the cookie-cutter junk that every pessimist would say. Nothing new.

Yeah, I am not the most positive about the Chiefs, but for this guy to say the only other good player is Dewayne Bowe and then to turn around and blame Cassel for his poor completion percentage, just is not well thought out in my opinion.

If KC receivers catch just half the passes they dropped, Cassel's completion percentage goes up to over 60% which is respectable.

bwilliams
06-17-2010, 05:32 PM
Both of whom have also won 5 or 6 superbowls together.

As for underperforming players, you dont think a little NFL experience can make a player better? We have two top 5 picks on our D line, but expecting some improvement out of them is out of the question?

On top of that, add in a decent draft, some time in the system and all around better coaching is why most people here think we will have an improved team.

It bugs me to no end, that no matter what reason anyone has to say we have improved, you have a differing opinion with no real basis.

You say we can't rush the passer, but I think our secondary will help our pass rush greatly, can't protect the passer, Lilja and Wiegmann will improve our line, and I have already addressed the d line. If you have any reasonable argument against any of this, then I would love to hear it, but we are getting tired of hearing that we will be bad because we were bed before. Have we gone from worst to SB contender? Probably not, do we have a legitimate shot at winning our division with a relatively easy schedule and some improvement? Absolutely. ONce u r in the playoffs....who know? You gotta believe evey once in a while man, if u think they are never gonna win, why do you turn the game on?

Over the past three years, the Chiefs (10 wins) have been worse than every other team in the NFL except for the Rams (6 wins) and the Lions (9 wins). We were not one of the bottom three teams in the league because our starters were very talented.

Look at our Opening Day 2008 starters (last Herm year) and our opening day 2010 starters. We're starting twelve of the same twenty-two guys! Niswanger, Ron Edwards, Demorrio Williams, Albert, Waters, Hali, Bowe, Carr, Flowers, DJ, Cox, Dorsey, and (maybe) Page. Now, I like some of these guys. I love Flowers and Carr, I think Bowe gets a bad shake, Hali is seemingly thriving as a 3-4 OLB, and Waters is still our best OL.

But we're not getting out of the cellar if these are our best guys. And in two offseasons, our current braintrust have refused to plug the holes.

We need an offensive line upgrade very, very badly. Old, oft-injured, and small guys like Lilja and Wiegmann (neither of whom will be starting probably on Opening Day, Niswanger and Asamoah probably will) don't count. We need a real LT (I like Albert but he isn't good enough), a real RT, a new C, and a big OG to eventually take over for a declining Waters.

We need a pass rush very, very badly. Our DBs, no matter how good, will be torn apart if opposing QBs have ten seconds to make every throw. Except for Hali, we don't have anyone who can get in the backfield.

We very, very badly need some guys who can stop the run. If we're going to run a 3-4 defense, we need a big NT, some real ILBs, and a young guy to man the LOLB spot. We don't have them.

And you know the worst thing? Last year we were lucky. We had almost no injuries to key players. Cassel and Dorsey missed a couple games. But on the whole, the guys we consider key this year stayed healthy. What if we're not so lucky this year? What if continual double teams wear down our top-5 DEs? What if our lousy OTs get our QB killed? What if our QB gets Chambers/Bowe killed by throwing the ball time after time into traffic? How well will older guys like Waters, Vrabel, and Jones hold up?

And I love the Chiefs because I grew up loving the Chiefs. Not because they're winning Super Bowls or making smart decisions.

yashi
06-17-2010, 05:34 PM
Nothing like writing the team off before they even play a preseason game.

bwilliams
06-17-2010, 05:41 PM
Yeah, I am not the most positive about the Chiefs, but for this guy to say the only other good player is Dewayne Bowe and then to turn around and blame Cassel for his poor completion percentage, just is not well thought out in my opinion.

If KC receivers catch just half the passes they dropped, Cassel's completion percentage goes up to over 60% which is respectable.

I don't recall every writing that our only good player was Dwayne Bowe (although he is a good player). Bowe just takes too much $h!t from everyone. He managed to post back-to-back 1000 yard seasons with Huard/Thigpen/Croyle as his QBs. That isn't easy to do.

How many passes do you think our WRs dropped? I'm betting its not nearly as many as you think they did. And do you think that perhaps our WRs dropped some of the passes they did based on QB play? Do you think there's a reason why (for example) Peyton Manning's WRs drop very few passes and Brady Quinn's drop so many? It isn't just because they're better WRs. It's because the QB is good enough to get the ball to them in a way that the DB can't dislodge it.

Canada
06-17-2010, 05:42 PM
You seem like the type that would be complaining the we did nothing about the secondary if we spent all our picks on the lines, and if we spent it on pass rush, you would complain that we didnt adress the running game. Its not all going to change overnight, but if u see now improvement in this team over the last couple then I assume you arent paying that much attention. Im not concerned in any way with what happened three years ago. That bears no relevance on the team we have right now. I dont think anyone here thinks that we are a SB contender right now, but most do think we have improved. I know everyone says we should have upgraded at NT...with who? Who was the Dline saviour that we passed on? Who was the freakishly great pass rusher that we did not take? You are quick to point out the problems but you have not provided one viable solution where we could have addressed some of these problems. If the talent is not there then why take players at that position? Do you really think a rookie NT is going to outperform any NT we have now? I guess if we had picked a NT then we would have all next season to listen to how he was a bust and we wasted a draft pick. I have nothing else to say on the subject since you seem to be dead set on pointing out problems and complaining than anything else. Enjoy the season, there will be no "I told ya so" at the end of the year!!:bananen_smilies046:

bwilliams
06-17-2010, 05:45 PM
You don't think that Weiss and Crennel are an improvement?

I do think they're improvements. I also think that guys like McCluster, Arenas, Moeaki, etc. are improvements. I just don't think that they equate to more wins. And I don't think they're the cure-all that people are seemingly brainwashed into thinking they are.

Crennel and Weis are going to try to run schemes that I don't believe can be run with our current personnel. I do not think Weis's precision passing scheme can be run with our sieve of an OL. I do not think Crennel's 3-4 scheme can be run without real ILBs or a NT. Really, do you think they can?

bwilliams
06-17-2010, 06:02 PM
You seem like the type that would be complaining the we did nothing about the secondary if we spent all our picks on the lines, and if we spent it on pass rush, you would complain that we didnt adress the running game.

Well, you're wrong. My posts pre-draft are still out there. I've never said anything other than that we need a new OL and front seven if we want to win games.


Its not all going to change overnight, but if u see now improvement in this team over the last couple then I assume you arent paying that much attention. Im not concerned in any way with what happened three years ago. That bears no relevance on the team we have right now.

Our team is not better in any appreciable way than it was three years ago. That's the point. In the past three years we've gained some nice pieces (Berry, Bowe, Flowers). We've also lost some great players (Tony G., Jared Allen). Are we better or worse? In 2007 we won four games. In 2009 we won four games. And we still have exactly the same problems (pass rush, offensive line, run defense) we had in 2008 that we have in 2010.


I dont think anyone here thinks that we are a SB contender right now, but most do think we have improved.

Most people on this board do. Most people not on this board don't.


I know everyone says we should have upgraded at NT...with who? Who was the Dline saviour that we passed on? Who was the freakishly great pass rusher that we did not take? You are quick to point out the problems but you have not provided one viable solution where we could have addressed some of these problems. If the talent is not there then why take players at that position? Do you really think a rookie NT is going to outperform any NT we have now?

First, a rookie NT would absolutely outperform Edwards. Maybe not be a lot, but you can't do much worse at the position than Edwards did last year.

Second, a NT won't come in and immediately start kicking butt. But you can't run a 3-4 without one. What does this mean?

1. You bite the bullet, draft a NT, and groom him; or
2. You don't run the 3-4.

This middle-ground stuff where we're running the 3-4 with a terrible NT is about the worst thing we can do.

Third, as for a pass rush, I'd have tried in FA or in the draft to get a pass rush. Sergio Kindle is an injury risk, but I'd rather risk him than spend a pick on backups like McCluster and Arenas. Koa Misi is a guy I'd have love to have drafted at 2a instead of McCluster.

Fourth, the reason we don't draft players with talent is because our GM and coaches are overconfident in their abilities to coach up our current personnel. They think they're smart enough that they can turn Ron Edwards/Shaun Smith into a legit NT. They think their schemes are more important than the talent level of the players in them. And they're wrong.


I guess if we had picked a NT then we would have all next season to listen to how he was a bust and we wasted a draft pick. I have nothing else to say on the subject since you seem to be dead set on pointing out problems and complaining than anything else. Enjoy the season, there will be no "I told ya so" at the end of the year!!:bananen_smilies046:

Again, you're wrong. The best thing aout message boards is that when something is written it stays written.

And the second best thing is that one of us is right, and one is wrong. We're either on the right path or the wrong one. We'll find out in a few months.

Three7s
06-17-2010, 06:12 PM
There's a site that was posted here a few months ago where you can watch every chiefs game this season.

Maybe you should check out how many passes our receivers actually DID drop. I think you'd be surprised.

Oh and Bowe is overrated.

bwilliams
06-17-2010, 06:32 PM
There's a site that was posted here a few months ago where you can watch every chiefs game this season.

Maybe you should check out how many passes our receivers actually DID drop. I think you'd be surprised.

Oh and Bowe is overrated.

Post the site if you can find it. That would be awesome to have.

You're right. Just found a site that listed them. Our WRs dropped 32 passes last season, which is more than I figured (or RBs/TEs dropped another 12 on top). Honestly, do you really think our QB is blameless in this? Or to put it another way, why do you think Chiefs WRs were dropping passes when other WRs weren't?

Bowe is underrated, not overrated. He's never played with a top-20 QB but managed to be a 1000 WR his first two years. That's not easy. Randy Moss couldn't do that when he was in Oakland. Terrell Owens couldn't do it in Buffalo. Almost no WRs can.

Give Bowe a top-10 QB, and he'd be a top-5 WR.

Three7s
06-17-2010, 06:54 PM
Post the site if you can find it. That would be awesome to have.

You're right. Just found a site that listed them. Our WRs dropped 32 passes last season, which is more than I figured (or RBs/TEs dropped another 12 on top). Honestly, do you really think our QB is blameless in this? Or to put it another way, why do you think Chiefs WRs were dropping passes when other WRs weren't?

Bowe is underrated, not overrated. He's never played with a top-20 QB but managed to be a 1000 WR his first two years. That's not easy. Randy Moss couldn't do that when he was in Oakland. Terrell Owens couldn't do it in Buffalo. Almost no WRs can.

Give Bowe a top-10 QB, and he'd be a top-5 WR.
All I'm saying is I remember a lot of passes that were right in the basket and were just dropped.

Here's the site I was talking about.
http://www.kcchiefsgames.com

honda522
06-17-2010, 07:33 PM
God, did anyone every tell you your annoying? You're like all the other new posters around here, come to complain about sh*t and never truly discuss anything but the same crap over and over.

CapitalT
06-17-2010, 09:17 PM
God, did anyone every tell you your annoying? You're like all the other new posters around here, come to complain about sh*t and never truly discuss anything but the same crap over and over.
I think that's a bit harsh but yeah ... I've criticized the lack of attention to the O-Line but I think the Chiefs have made significant improvements in other areas. The overall talent we picked up in the draft is quite impressive.

I think the comments about Cassel are premature. Wait until he has some time to throw, and if he still sucks, then bag him.

matthewschiefs
06-17-2010, 10:02 PM
Ok I understand that some there is a lot to be down about with this team over the past few seasons. Here is the problem that I have with a lot of the negative posters on this site. Some NOT ALL have already doomed this team to be the same team that we had last season. You ignore the HUGE upgrades that this team has made in coaching. Coaching may not be the biggest thing but it is the starting point. If a rookie comes into the NFL with bad coaching he is not going to reach his full potential. Thats just how it is. To get the upgraded coaching in place will help this team both now and in the long run.

The draft/free agent pick ups may not be anything that would blow you away but Scott Pioli has a history of this. He is not one that wants to win the off season he wants to build a TEAM. Outside of a couple of guys he did not go after big names with the PATS I think if you asked any fans of the PATS they would take what they got. Have a little faith give the rookies and free agents a CHANCE before you say how horrible our offseason has been. Who nos they might just surprise you. I say CHIEFS to the playoffs this year. :chiefs:

Connie Jo
06-18-2010, 02:38 AM
Originally Posted by Canada http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?p=192821#post192821)
I dont think anyone here thinks that we are a SB contender right now, but most do think we have improved.



Most people on this board do. Most people not on this board don't.

I don't think most on this board realistically believe the Chiefs will be a Super Bowl Contender in 2010.

However...I DO!! I believe each and every new season that the Chiefs are a Super Bowl Contender! Seriously, I DO! Now, one would think that after 39 consecutive seasons of my witnessing their not returning to a Super Bowl...I would give up and admit to being a blind fool! OH!...but not I...I will believe the Chiefs are a SB contender each season until I die, then I'm gonna believe it from Heaven! I'm gonna believe it eternally!

Why not believe it? It's better to think postively than negatively, forget realistically...I face reality daily, I'd rather not go there with my Chiefs, HA!

GO CHIEFS!! Super Bowl Champions 2010! YEEHAW!! :yahoo:

Ryfo18
06-18-2010, 03:23 AM
My 2 cents on why I think we will be a lot better next year. I'm predicting an 8-8 or better season.

1.) Everyone is so fast to point to the line as being horrendous. This article goes to point out that the line was way better with Charles in the game. That's not going to change next year, and we did have some nice additions in the offseason to bolster the line. I'm not that worried about the line going into the year, especially if they can play like they did the last half of the season.

2.) The additions of McCluster and Urban are big. Every week last year there was a move being made at the 3rd receiver position. The guys in there were bad. Now I won't be fast to call McCluster a great WR, but I certainly think he is going to help the passing attack. Urban was a very serviceable WR for Arizona, but was lost on a team with a depth chart consisting of some excellent WRs. Having a weapon in the slot is going to take a lot of pressure off Bowe and Chambers. And that's going to help Bowe have a huge year.

3.) Jamaal Charles, Thomas Jones. Over 2500 yards combined last year (of course on 2 different teams). The running game is going to flourish, and both of these guys are going to stay much fresher throughout the season. The article talks about not giving Charles 25 carries. I'm glad they didn't. RBs break down so fast in this league. We saw it around week 13 or 14 when Charles was in obvious pain on the sidelines. I don't blame him for putting Charles out there to take a beating the whole game.

4.) The secondary is above average. With Carr, Flowers, and Berry, this secondary is going to be very good and make a lot of plays next year. Enough said.

5.) I agree with Bwilliams, not much was done to address the need at NT and run stopping. My thoughts are that now that the offense has a few more weapons, the defense will benefit because we might actually be able to get a lead early, forcing teams to throw the ball. Again, the secondary is something to be confident in. Forcing teams to throw the ball is going to play to the Chiefs' advantage. It's all a matter of executing, and I'm confident in the coaching staff that his been brought in to draw up a game plan for every game that these players can execute.:chiefs:

Hayvern
06-18-2010, 04:45 AM
I don't recall every writing that our only good player was Dwayne Bowe (although he is a good player). Bowe just takes too much !t from everyone. He managed to post back-to-back 1000 yard seasons with Huard/Thigpen/Croyle as his QBs. That isn't easy to do.

How many passes do you think our WRs dropped? I'm betting its not nearly as many as you think they did. And do you think that perhaps our WRs dropped some of the passes they did based on QB play? Do you think there's a reason why (for example) Peyton Manning's WRs drop very few passes and Brady Quinn's drop so many? It isn't just because they're better WRs. It's because the QB is good enough to get the ball to them in a way that the DB can't dislodge it.

Are you really so full of yourself that you automatically assume that I was referring to you with my comments? The subject of this discussion was an article written by some other guy on another website. It was the writer of THAT article I was referring to who as the person who was bragging about how good Bowe was and how bad Cassel is. I did not even quote you in any way shape of form and never claimed that you had said anything. In fact, you are so far removed from my discussion point, I am not even sure why I am bothering to respond to you.

Now since you seem to want to call me out on the carpet, let's then get into this discussion.

The Chiefs had 48 dropped passes according to the best numbers I can find. It is a stat that is not really official in the NFL and as you rightly pointed out, it is hard to always point to the receiver as the problem, however, I think it is safe, as I stated in my post, that half of the dropped passes are from the receiver failing to make the catch from a good throw from the quarterback.

I think it is safer to say that even more than that should go towards the receivers since the stat precludes that the receiver got his hands on the ball in a fashion that would indicate the ability to catch the ball. Even though the QB may have not thrown the ball perfectly. But let's say for argument that 50% are directly on the receiver.

Now if you consider the 48 dropped passes, that would indicate that 24 SHOULD have been caught. Cassel completed 271 out of 493 attempts with a 55% completion percentage. If you add 24 to the 271 you get 295 completions out of 493 with a 59% average. Not quite over 60% as I said in my original post, but would have been a respectable stat to say the least and would have been more in line with the numbers he put up in New England that made him the talk of the NFL in 2008.

So why does Bowe take so much crap? Because of two key issues with him:

1. He got busted for steroid use. That is just stupid and if he is going to cheat, then he should be able to put up 1,000 yard games. Like it or not, that criticism is valid. Bowe has to dig himself out of that hole before he can be considered a leader on this team again. Say what you want about Cassel, he is a better player that Bowe for this one reason alone in my opinion.

2. He led the league in dropped passes even considering a 4 game suspension. The worse is that the vast majority of the drops were passes that were well placed and clearly should have been caught. Bowe can make a miraculous catch one minute, and then drop the perfectly thrown, easy pass the next. There were far too many passes were our receivers dropped passes without ever being close to a defensive back.

At the simplest point, Bowe has one job, catch the damn ball. Beyond anything else he does on the field, it is his one simple task and he hs had problems in that area. He was not alone of course, and realistically, he was not the worse culprit, but considering what he is being paid and the position he was drafted at, he should be much better in this area than he is.

The astounding thing is that his hands have been getting progressively worse year after year.

OK, I am off my soap box now. Just do me a favor, perhaps make sure of what you speak before you call someone out on the board eh?

bwilliams
06-18-2010, 02:38 PM
God, did anyone every tell you your annoying? You're like all the other new posters around here, come to complain about sh*t and never truly discuss anything but the same crap over and over.

God, did anyone ever tell you that no one cares about your opinion? And posting "McCluster is awesome!" isn't the same thing as discussing something.

bwilliams
06-18-2010, 02:45 PM
I think that's a bit harsh but yeah ... I've criticized the lack of attention to the O-Line but I think the Chiefs have made significant improvements in other areas. The overall talent we picked up in the draft is quite impressive.

You're right and wrong (in my opinion). We picked up good players in the draft. Berry is going to be a perennial Pro Bowler at FS. Asamoah will probably (hopefully) start over Lilja at RG. I like Arenas to be a good nickel CB. McCluster should be a good KR/PR, Wildcat distraction, and (maybe) slot WR, although I'll believe that last one when I see it. Moeaki is oft-injured, but talented. All of our picks are high character guys who will be 100% loyal.

But all of that stuff doesn't equate to wins. We aren't going to win games starting the worst front seven in the league. We aren't going to win games while starting the 2nd worst OL in the league (after Buffalo). We aren't going to win if we keep expecting low drat picks and the dregs and offcasts of other teams to be our starters. We aren't going to win so long as we pretend everything is fine. Because everything is not fine.


I think the comments about Cassel are premature. Wait until he has some time to throw, and if he still sucks, then bag him.

I agree. But how is he ever going to get time to prove himself when we start OTs that wouldn't see the field on 30 other teams?

bwilliams
06-18-2010, 02:56 PM
Ok I understand that some there is a lot to be down about with this team over the past few seasons. Here is the problem that I have with a lot of the negative posters on this site. Some NOT ALL have already doomed this team to be the same team that we had last season. You ignore the HUGE upgrades that this team has made in coaching. Coaching may not be the biggest thing but it is the starting point. If a rookie comes into the NFL with bad coaching he is not going to reach his full potential. Thats just how it is. To get the upgraded coaching in place will help this team both now and in the long run.

Look, I agree that good coaching can do a lot for a player, the same way that bad coaching can break a player. But (1) you're basing a lot of faith on a couple of NE guys when no coach whose left NE has done good anywhere else; (2) we're starting a bunch of lousy vets (D. Williams, Ron Edwards, Corey Mays, Page possibly) who have hit their ceiling; and (3) our coaches are unwaiveringly running schemes for which they don't have the personnel.

It's the 3rd one that bugs me the most. When the Pats won their 1st SB, they ran a simplified passing offense (w/ some trickery thrown in) and a 4-3. They did so because they had a near-rookie QB and because they didn't have the personnel to run the 3-4. Why aren't we doing the same?


The draft/free agent pick ups may not be anything that would blow you away but Scott Pioli has a history of this. He is not one that wants to win the off season he wants to build a TEAM. Outside of a couple of guys he did not go after big names with the PATS I think if you asked any fans of the PATS they would take what they got.

Don't you realize that we've done the opposite of the Pats in building this team? The Pats thrived because (1) they had Brady; (2) they drafted their OL; and (3) they drafted their DL. Not because they drafted safeties, backups, and KR/PR in the first two rounds. They also brought in a bunch of good FAs who propelled them to a SB. They didn't sign a couple and call it a day.


Have a little faith give the rookies and free agents a CHANCE before you say how horrible our offseason has been. Who nos they might just surprise you. I say CHIEFS to the playoffs this year. :chiefs:

My posts have nothing to do with how good of players our rookies are. My point is that they could be the best rookie FS, 3WR, 3CB, RG, and TE ever, and it still won't help our win total. Because we have the worst RT, ILBs, and NT in the league.

bwilliams
06-18-2010, 02:59 PM
Originally Posted by Canada http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?p=192821#post192821)
I dont think anyone here thinks that we are a SB contender right now, but most do think we have improved.



I don't think most on this board realistically believe the Chiefs will be a Super Bowl Contender in 2010.

However...I DO!! I believe each and every new season that the Chiefs are a Super Bowl Contender! Seriously, I DO! Now, one would think that after 39 consecutive seasons of my witnessing their not returning to a Super Bowl...I would give up and admit to being a blind fool! OH!...but not I...I will believe the Chiefs are a SB contender each season until I die, then I'm gonna believe it from Heaven! I'm gonna believe it eternally!

Why not believe it? It's better to think postively than negatively, forget realistically...I face reality daily, I'd rather not go there with my Chiefs, HA!

GO CHIEFS!! Super Bowl Champions 2010! YEEHAW!! :yahoo:

Look, if you want to admit that my view is reality and most posters is not, then that's enough for me.

bwilliams
06-18-2010, 03:10 PM
Are you really so full of yourself that you automatically assume that I was referring to you with my comments? The subject of this discussion was an article written by some other guy on another website. It was the writer of THAT article I was referring to who as the person who was bragging about how good Bowe was and how bad Cassel is. I did not even quote you in any way shape of form and never claimed that you had said anything. In fact, you are so far removed from my discussion point, I am not even sure why I am bothering to respond to you.

Now since you seem to want to call me out on the carpet, let's then get into this discussion.

The Chiefs had 48 dropped passes according to the best numbers I can find. It is a stat that is not really official in the NFL and as you rightly pointed out, it is hard to always point to the receiver as the problem, however, I think it is safe, as I stated in my post, that half of the dropped passes are from the receiver failing to make the catch from a good throw from the quarterback.

I think it is safer to say that even more than that should go towards the receivers since the stat precludes that the receiver got his hands on the ball in a fashion that would indicate the ability to catch the ball. Even though the QB may have not thrown the ball perfectly. But let's say for argument that 50% are directly on the receiver.

Now if you consider the 48 dropped passes, that would indicate that 24 SHOULD have been caught. Cassel completed 271 out of 493 attempts with a 55% completion percentage. If you add 24 to the 271 you get 295 completions out of 493 with a 59% average. Not quite over 60% as I said in my original post, but would have been a respectable stat to say the least and would have been more in line with the numbers he put up in New England that made him the talk of the NFL in 2008.

So why does Bowe take so much crap? Because of two key issues with him:

1. He got busted for steroid use. That is just stupid and if he is going to cheat, then he should be able to put up 1,000 yard games. Like it or not, that criticism is valid. Bowe has to dig himself out of that hole before he can be considered a leader on this team again. Say what you want about Cassel, he is a better player that Bowe for this one reason alone in my opinion.

2. He led the league in dropped passes even considering a 4 game suspension. The worse is that the vast majority of the drops were passes that were well placed and clearly should have been caught. Bowe can make a miraculous catch one minute, and then drop the perfectly thrown, easy pass the next. There were far too many passes were our receivers dropped passes without ever being close to a defensive back.

At the simplest point, Bowe has one job, catch the damn ball. Beyond anything else he does on the field, it is his one simple task and he hs had problems in that area. He was not alone of course, and realistically, he was not the worse culprit, but considering what he is being paid and the position he was drafted at, he should be much better in this area than he is.

The astounding thing is that his hands have been getting progressively worse year after year.

OK, I am off my soap box now. Just do me a favor, perhaps make sure of what you speak before you call someone out on the board eh?

Did I call you out? I didn't realize writing:


I don't recall every writing that our only good player was Dwayne Bowe (although he is a good player). Bowe just takes too much !t from everyone. He managed to post back-to-back 1000 yard seasons with Huard/Thigpen/Croyle as his QBs. That isn't easy to do.

How many passes do you think our WRs dropped? I'm betting its not nearly as many as you think they did. And do you think that perhaps our WRs dropped some of the passes they did based on QB play? Do you think there's a reason why (for example) Peyton Manning's WRs drop very few passes and Brady Quinn's drop so many? It isn't just because they're better WRs. It's because the QB is good enough to get the ball to them in a way that the DB can't dislodge it.

Was calling you out. I didn't know you were so sensitive. This might help:

Amazon.com: Dr. Brown's BPA Free Polypropylene Natural Flow Bottle Newborn…

And as the author of the article never called Bowe our only good player either, you can forgive me for not realizing about whom you were speaking. I mean, it's hard to respond when you're not concerned with being truthful.

bwilliams
06-18-2010, 03:18 PM
My 2 cents on why I think we will be a lot better next year. I'm predicting an 8-8 or better season.

1.) Everyone is so fast to point to the line as being horrendous. This article goes to point out that the line was way better with Charles in the game. That's not going to change next year, and we did have some nice additions in the offseason to bolster the line. I'm not that worried about the line going into the year, especially if they can play like they did the last half of the season.

Here's the thing. Why do you think Lilja and Wiegmann are good? Wiegmann is small and old, and Lilja was cut because the Colts needed to upgrade him. I liked the Asamoah pick, but he's a rookie and can only do so much.

Albert and O'Callaghan are the 2nd worst OT tandem in the league (behind Buffalo's). They are miserable in protecting the QB. That's our biggest problem.


2.) The additions of McCluster and Urban are big. Every week last year there was a move being made at the 3rd receiver position. The guys in there were bad. Now I won't be fast to call McCluster a great WR, but I certainly think he is going to help the passing attack. Urban was a very serviceable WR for Arizona, but was lost on a team with a depth chart consisting of some excellent WRs. Having a weapon in the slot is going to take a lot of pressure off Bowe and Chambers. And that's going to help Bowe have a huge year.

McCluster is a converted RB who will need a few years before he's a legit threat. Urban's best year was in 2008 when he caught 34 balls for 448 yards.

They might both be very good, but it's crazy to start penciling them in this year as anything but question marks.


3.) Jamaal Charles, Thomas Jones. Over 2500 yards combined last year (of course on 2 different teams). The running game is going to flourish, and both of these guys are going to stay much fresher throughout the season. The article talks about not giving Charles 25 carries. I'm glad they didn't. RBs break down so fast in this league. We saw it around week 13 or 14 when Charles was in obvious pain on the sidelines. I don't blame him for putting Charles out there to take a beating the whole game.

I agree that our running game might be immense. I'd feel a lot better though if we had some big OL for them to run behind.


4.) The secondary is above average. With Carr, Flowers, and Berry, this secondary is going to be very good and make a lot of plays next year. Enough said.

We need a SS, but I agree entirely. Those three should keep improving and I'm grateful we have them. That being said, no DB can cover a WR indefintely. If we can't get pressure from our front seven, it doesn't matter how good our DBs are.


5.) I agree with Bwilliams, not much was done to address the need at NT and run stopping. My thoughts are that now that the offense has a few more weapons, the defense will benefit because we might actually be able to get a lead early, forcing teams to throw the ball. Again, the secondary is something to be confident in. Forcing teams to throw the ball is going to play to the Chiefs' advantage. It's all a matter of executing, and I'm confident in the coaching staff that his been brought in to draw up a game plan for every game that these players can execute.:chiefs:

Time will tell. I wish I had your confidence.

Ryfo18
06-18-2010, 03:34 PM
Here's the thing. Why do you think Lilja and Wiegmann are good? Wiegmann is small and old, and Lilja was cut because the Colts needed to upgrade him. I liked the Asamoah pick, but he's a rookie and can only do so much.

Albert and O'Callaghan are the 2nd worst OT tandem in the league (behind Buffalo's). They are miserable in protecting the QB. That's our biggest problem.

I didn't say Lilja and Wiegmann were good. We don't even know if they will be starting. I'm more saying that if the line plays like they did the last 8 games last year, then that is definitely acceptable.




McCluster is a converted RB who will need a few years before he's a legit threat. Urban's best year was in 2008 when he caught 34 balls for 448 yards.

They might both be very good, but it's crazy to start penciling them in this year as anything but question marks.


Question marks I agree, but in my opinion McCluster will be able to make this transition. He lined up in the slot in college some. He will be very versatile for the Chiefs. He has the athletic ability to be very good as a slot WR and make big plays. The offense now has 4 legitimate weapons in McCluster, Bowe, Chambers, and T. Jones.

I'm looking forward to having Urban. I certainly think he is an upgrade over the barrage of guys that were trying to play the 3rd/4th WR position last year. Looking at his stats is misleading though. This guy was buried behind 4 talented WRs in Fitzgerald, Boldin, Breaston and Doucet. I think there are good things to come out of him once given a chance to play.




I agree that our running game might be immense. I'd feel a lot better though if we had some big OL for them to run behind.



We need a SS, but I agree entirely. Those three should keep improving and I'm grateful we have them. That being said, no DB can cover a WR indefintely. If we can't get pressure from our front seven, it doesn't matter how good our DBs are.



Time will tell. I wish I had your confidence.

Jamaal Charles has the ability to make the line better than they really are. He's that good, and we saw it from him last year. I'm not going to discount a team because there guys aren't any good on paper. This team has a great attitude right now and coaches that are going to be able to put together a great game plan week after week, like I said before. I'm excited for the season.

matthewschiefs
06-18-2010, 04:15 PM
Look, I agree that good coaching can do a lot for a player, the same way that bad coaching can break a player. But (1) you're basing a lot of faith on a couple of NE guys when no coach whose left NE has done good anywhere else; (2) we're starting a bunch of lousy vets (D. Williams, Ron Edwards, Corey Mays, Page possibly) who have hit their ceiling; and (3) our coaches are unwaiveringly running schemes for which they don't have the personnel.

It's the 3rd one that bugs me the most. When the Pats won their 1st SB, they ran a simplified passing offense (w/ some trickery thrown in) and a 4-3. They did so because they had a near-rookie QB and because they didn't have the personnel to run the 3-4. Why aren't we doing the same?



Don't you realize that we've done the opposite of the Pats in building this team? The Pats thrived because (1) they had Brady; (2) they drafted their OL; and (3) they drafted their DL. Not because they drafted safeties, backups, and KR/PR in the first two rounds. They also brought in a bunch of good FAs who propelled them to a SB. They didn't sign a couple and call it a day.



My posts have nothing to do with how good of players our rookies are. My point is that they could be the best rookie FS, 3WR, 3CB, RG, and TE ever, and it still won't help our win total. Because we have the worst RT, ILBs, and NT in the league.

The new coaches from new england that I am baseing my hope in are now back in there element. YOU CAN NOT compare the role of an OC or DC to a Head Coach.

As for how this team is being built this is no were near the complete team that we are going to see in the years to come this is only the start of it. If every NFL owner were as inpatient as you there would be 0 coaches in the NFL hall of fame. GIVE IT TIME. I think that Haley has won more games as a Head coach then any of us on this site. And Pioli has more rings then anyone on this site. Give them time dont pretend you no more about building a team then them. Give this team a CHANCE just a Chance.

bwilliams
06-18-2010, 04:42 PM
The new coaches from new england that I am baseing my hope in are now back in there element. YOU CAN NOT compare the role of an OC or DC to a Head Coach.

I agree. Do you see the irony of people saying that Weis and Crennel "have 5 to 6 rings between them"?


As for how this team is being built this is no were near the complete team that we are going to see in the years to come this is only the start of it.

Would you agree with me that many GMs and coaches have been able to come in and turn lousy teams into winners in 2-3 years? And would you agree with me that we need to see improvement this year? While (almost) no one is thinking SB, would you agree that we should expect at least seven wins? And if we don't get them, wouldn't you agree that at that point it's time to start getting worried? And if you don't agree, how much time do you want to give?

What worries me most is that I don't see us building a bedrock here. Really, how many of our 22 starters do you see as long-term guys to build around?

Cassel - ???
Charles - Yes
Albert - No (at LT), Yes (elsewhere on OL)
Waters - No (though he will for the next 2-3 years)
Niswanger - No
Asamoah - Yes
O'Callaghan - No
Moeaki - ???
Chambers - No (though he will for the next 2-3 years)
Bowe - ??? (I hope so, but fans are unreasonably prejudiced against him)
Ron Edwards - Hell No
Jackson - ??? (lousy '09, hopefully will improve)
Dorsey - ??? (who knows?)
Hali - Yes
DJ - No (he's bolting in 2011)
DeMorrio Williams/Mays - No
Vrabel - No (too old)
Page - No
Berry - Yes
Carr - Yes
Flowers - Yes

We have some nice pieces on special teams too, but that's it.

If tomorrow, all NFL players were thrown into a common pot and all teams did a superdraft, how long do you think it would be until a Chief was picked? 3rd round? 4th round? Later?


If every NFL owner were as inpatient as you there would be 0 coaches in the NFL hall of fame. GIVE IT TIME. I think that Haley has won more games as a Head coach then any of us on this site. And Pioli has more rings then anyone on this site. Give them time dont pretend you no more about building a team then them. Give this team a CHANCE just a Chance.

Pioli was the personnel director for NE. He wasn't a GM. He wasn't a coach. He wasn't a player. Let's not pretend he's more than he was.

Herm Edwards' won a lot more games than any person on this board. Haley's lost a lot more games than any person on this board. What's your point?

I'd feel a lot better if I could understand what our plan is. From where I sit, it seems that we're signing a bunch of high character guys who don't fit the schemes the coached want to run.

matthewschiefs
06-18-2010, 05:53 PM
I agree. Do you see the irony of people saying that Weis and Crennel "have 5 to 6 rings between them"?



Would you agree with me that many GMs and coaches have been able to come in and turn lousy teams into winners in 2-3 years? And would you agree with me that we need to see improvement this year? While (almost) no one is thinking SB, would you agree that we should expect at least seven wins? And if we don't get them, wouldn't you agree that at that point it's time to start getting worried? And if you don't agree, how much time do you want to give?

What worries me most is that I don't see us building a bedrock here. Really, how many of our 22 starters do you see as long-term guys to build around?

Cassel - ???
Charles - Yes
Albert - No (at LT), Yes (elsewhere on OL)
Waters - No (though he will for the next 2-3 years)
Niswanger - No
Asamoah - Yes
O'Callaghan - No
Moeaki - ???
Chambers - No (though he will for the next 2-3 years)
Bowe - ??? (I hope so, but fans are unreasonably prejudiced against him)
Ron Edwards - Hell No
Jackson - ??? (lousy '09, hopefully will improve)
Dorsey - ??? (who knows?)
Hali - Yes
DJ - No (he's bolting in 2011)
DeMorrio Williams/Mays - No
Vrabel - No (too old)
Page - No
Berry - Yes
Carr - Yes
Flowers - Yes

We have some nice pieces on special teams too, but that's it.

If tomorrow, all NFL players were thrown into a common pot and all teams did a superdraft, how long do you think it would be until a Chief was picked? 3rd round? 4th round? Later?



Pioli was the personnel director for NE. He wasn't a GM. He wasn't a coach. He wasn't a player. Let's not pretend he's more than he was.

Herm Edwards' won a lot more games than any person on this board. Haley's lost a lot more games than any person on this board. What's your point?

I'd feel a lot better if I could understand what our plan is. From where I sit, it seems that we're signing a bunch of high character guys who don't fit the schemes the coached want to run.


I agree that we should see Improvement this year.

My point with the wins comment is simple. MAYBE just MAYBE They no what they are doing. Yes herm has also won many games. He got 3 years. This is not even into Haley Piolis 2nd and you have already made your mind up that the sky is falling. My point is Let THIS YEARS team with the new coaching in place take ONE SNAP before you declare them a complete failure. You listed 6 guys as long term fixes. And a few question marks. If one of those question marks turns out to be a yes then that would be 7. Getting 7 guys in 2 years is not a bad start. Considering how last seasons off season spent so much time just getting the coaching together. You didnt even list Mccluseter he could be anther yes. Take you hand off the panic button it's no were near time to worry. I will worry when I see this team as bad as its been the past few seasons. GIVE THEM A CHANCE is all I am saying.

Canada
06-18-2010, 06:00 PM
I agree that we should see Improvement this year.

My point with the wins comment is simple. MAYBE just MAYBE They no what they are doing. Yes herm has also won many games. He got 3 years. This is not even into Haley Piolis 2nd and you have already made your mind up that the sky is falling. My point is Let THIS YEARS team with the new coaching in place take ONE SNAP before you declare them a complete failure. You listed 6 guys as long term fixes. And a few question marks. If one of those question marks turns out to be a yes then that would be 7. Getting 7 guys in 2 years is not a bad start. Considering how last seasons off season spent so much time just getting the coaching together. You didnt even list Mccluseter he could be anther yes. Take you hand off the panic button it's no were near time to worry. I will worry when I see this team as bad as its been the past few seasons. GIVE THEM A CHANCE is all I am saying.

Not as well as someone knows them. Someone here has all the answers. I mean we dont even have a 53 man roster yet and he knows how well the team is going to play. Its uncanny how well some people think they know something without all the facts.

jwill 747
06-18-2010, 09:31 PM
id stick with DJ...

chief31
06-18-2010, 10:36 PM
I agree that we should see Improvement this year.

My point with the wins comment is simple. MAYBE just MAYBE They no what they are doing. Yes herm has also won many games. He got 3 years. This is not even into Haley Piolis 2nd and you have already made your mind up that the sky is falling. My point is Let THIS YEARS team with the new coaching in place take ONE SNAP before you declare them a complete failure. You listed 6 guys as long term fixes. And a few question marks. If one of those question marks turns out to be a yes then that would be 7. Getting 7 guys in 2 years is not a bad start. Considering how last seasons off season spent so much time just getting the coaching together. You didnt even list Mccluseter he could be anther yes. Take you hand off the panic button it's no were near time to worry. I will worry when I see this team as bad as its been the past few seasons. GIVE THEM A CHANCE is all I am saying.

Of those seven, most were already here before Pioli/Haley.

I'd also like to point out that depending on Charles to match last season's productivity level is asking too much. I will be thrilled if he does. Absolutely flabergasted!

But it reminds me a whole lot of 2005, when LJ had over 2700 yards in about half a season. The following year, teams started defending against what LJ was doing, instead of what Priest had been doing.

Last season, teams had somewhat of a defensive gameplan for The Chiefs already in place, and the difference in play-calling and RB skills surprised alot of teams.

In '06 teams defending LJ's "up the gut" running style slowed him drastically from '05. What took him only nine starts in '05 now took sixteen starts to equal.

Our opponents are not going to just sit back and defend the middle anymore. They will be coming in with a different defensive philosophy when they face us.

Again, I really hope that Charles is just so good that those defensive adjustments fail at slowing him down.

But it would be foolish of me to not consider it. And I am sure that our coaching staff has also considered it.

The good news is that our opponents will not be bringing the same defenses to our games that they were last year and before. We all know how our offense was doing against that.

Charles' explosion last season, if not completely repeatable, will cause defenses to spread out against us this year. No more "stack the middle and defend the pass". We will now be far less predictable.

And fewer defenders close to, and leaning toward the LOS should translate to less QB pressure, resulting in a refreshed passing attack.

It's a great opportunity for our offense. Just hope that we capitalize on it.

That would be the number one thing that I am looking for on offense this season.

bwilliams
06-18-2010, 11:56 PM
id stick with DJ...

Me too. But DJ's bolting as soon as the season ends.

bwilliams
06-18-2010, 11:57 PM
Not as well as someone knows them. Someone here has all the answers. I mean we dont even have a 53 man roster yet and he knows how well the team is going to play. Its uncanny how well some people think they know something without all the facts.

So . . . does that mean people who think we're playoff bound should wait until we have our 53-man roster too?

bwilliams
06-19-2010, 12:27 AM
I agree that we should see Improvement this year.

My point with the wins comment is simple. MAYBE just MAYBE They no what they are doing. Yes herm has also won many games. He got 3 years. This is not even into Haley Piolis 2nd and you have already made your mind up that the sky is falling. My point is Let THIS YEARS team with the new coaching in place take ONE SNAP before you declare them a complete failure. You listed 6 guys as long term fixes. And a few question marks. If one of those question marks turns out to be a yes then that would be 7. Getting 7 guys in 2 years is not a bad start. Considering how last seasons off season spent so much time just getting the coaching together. You didnt even list Mccluseter he could be anther yes. Take you hand off the panic button it's no were near time to worry. I will worry when I see this team as bad as its been the past few seasons. GIVE THEM A CHANCE is all I am saying.

Well, I didn't include Arenas and McCluster because they aren't starters. Nor are they intended to be such (Asamoah and Moeaki clearly are though). They're intended to be a 3WR and 3CB

And of those six, four (Carr, Flowers, Charles, and Hali) are pre-Piloi/Haley. I only have faith in their Asamoah/Berry picks to be Chiefs in three years.

My point was that we have questions or holes at most of our starting positions. And most good GMs/HCs would have found solutions in two offseasons, either in the draft or in FA.

And maybe you're right. Maybe they do know what they're doing. Maybe I'm underestimating Lilja, Shaun Smith, McCluster and the rest. Maybe our OC and DC turn Jackson, Dorsey, Cassel, etc. in to pro bowlers. But I just don't see it.

I'll admit, I've got nothing to base this on but my own judgment. I know most people on this board disagree with me. But I trust my judgment. And I think you will too in a few months.

honda522
06-19-2010, 12:34 AM
God, did anyone ever tell you that no one cares about your opinion? And posting "McCluster is awesome!" isn't the same thing as discussing something.
Better watch what you say...Your fighting a one sided battle.

bwilliams
06-19-2010, 12:47 AM
Better watch what you say...Your fighting a one sided battle.

I've gone this far in my life without caring about your opinion, and I don't plan to start now. Mostly because I don't respect your opinion. I mean, why would I? Why would anybody?

matthewschiefs
06-19-2010, 12:49 AM
Well, I didn't include Arenas and McCluster because they aren't starters. Nor are they intended to be such (Asamoah and Moeaki clearly are though). They're intended to be a 3WR and 3CB

And of those six, four (Carr, Flowers, Charles, and Hali) are pre-Piloi/Haley. I only have faith in their Asamoah/Berry picks to be Chiefs in three years.

My point was that we have questions or holes at most of our starting positions. And most good GMs/HCs would have found solutions in two offseasons, either in the draft or in FA.

And maybe you're right. Maybe they do know what they're doing. Maybe I'm underestimating Lilja, Shaun Smith, McCluster and the rest. Maybe our OC and DC turn Jackson, Dorsey, Cassel, etc. in to pro bowlers. But I just don't see it.

I'll admit, I've got nothing to base this on but my own judgment. I know most people on this board disagree with me. But I trust my judgment. And I think you will too in a few months.

I know that this team still has a lot of holes but you act like we have just sat around twiddling our thumbs this offseason or that the moves that we have made will not help this team. No one is saying that we are a superbowl team. I only say we can make a run at the playoffs because we have the NFC west on our schedule. That tends to give teams a better record then what they should have.

We did more this off season then we did last year. We have made HUGE upgrades in the coaching staff. We have brought in a few role player guys from the free agent market. We have a new draft class. One that should be better then last year since the coaches had more time to scout this year. We doubled our win total last year doing less. There is HOPE for this team to be MUCH better this season. I trust my judgement as well. The day Herm edwards was hired I had a bad felling about him. But I gave him a chance. I will give this team a chance before I hit the panic button. We have a lot of questions yes but some dont go into it thinking every question will be a negitive.

bwilliams
06-19-2010, 12:57 AM
I know that this team still has a lot of holes but you act like we have just sat around twiddling our thumbs this offseason or that the moves that we have made will not help this team. No one is saying that we are a superbowl team. I only say we can make a run at the playoffs because we have the NFC west on our schedule. That tends to give teams a better record then what they should have.

Well, we kind of have sat around twiddling our thumbs. We tendered/re-signed some of our own FAs, and we signed *five* other FAs (Wiegmann, Jones, Lilja, Shaun Smith, and Urban). None of those guys except for Jones (part-time) and (maybe, but I hope not) Lilja are supposed to be starters. I have no idea if that's a record league low, but it's got to be close. We then drafted a starting FS, slot WR, nickel CB, (hopefully) starting RG, and (maybe) starting TE.

Now, we did upgrade our coordinators. But I think you'd agree that only goes so far. I'd trade Weis for a top LT and RT, and I'd trade Crennel for a top NT and someeal ILBs.


We did more this off season then we did last year. We have made HUGE upgrades in the coaching staff. We have brought in a few role player guys from the free agent market. We have a new draft class. One that should be better then last year since the coaches had more time to scout this year. We doubled our win total last year doing less. There is HOPE for this team to be MUCH better this season. I trust my judgement as well. The day Herm edwards was hired I had a bad felling about him. But I gave him a chance. I will give this team a chance before I hit the panic button. We have a lot of questions yes but some dont go into it thinking every question will be a negitive.

My point is that the 2-14 team of 2008 and the 2010 chiefs have a whole lot of similarities. Both in terms of personnel and the way the GM/HC are approaching the team.

Three7s
06-19-2010, 01:25 AM
Well, we kind of have sat around twiddling our thumbs. We tendered/re-signed some of our own FAs, and we signed *five* other FAs (Wiegmann, Jones, Lilja, Shaun Smith, and Urban). None of those guys except for Jones (part-time) and (maybe, but I hope not) Lilja are supposed to be starters. I have no idea if that's a record league low, but it's got to be close. We then drafted a starting FS, slot WR, nickel CB, (hopefully) starting RG, and (maybe) starting TE.

Now, we did upgrade our coordinators. But I think you'd agree that only goes so far. I'd trade Weis for a top LT and RT, and I'd trade Crennel for a top NT and someeal ILBs.



My point is that the 2-14 team of 2008 and the 2010 chiefs have a whole lot of similarities. Both in terms of personnel and the way the GM/HC are approaching the team.
Where have you been the last 3 years? 5 FA signings is waaaaay more than we ever signed during Herm's era here.

bwilliams
06-19-2010, 01:45 AM
Where have you been the last 3 years? 5 FA signings is waaaaay more than we ever signed during Herm's era here.

Nonsense. In 2007 alone, we signed McIntosh, Donnie Edwards, Eddie Drummond, Napo, Darche, Boone, and McGraw.

(OK I didn't remember that off the top of my head. 2007 Kansas City Chiefs season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Kansas_City_Chiefs_season)).

Three7s
06-19-2010, 02:09 AM
Nonsense. In 2007 alone, we signed McIntosh, Donnie Edwards, Eddie Drummond, Napo, Darche, Boone, and McGraw.

(OK I didn't remember that off the top of my head. 2007 Kansas City Chiefs season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Kansas_City_Chiefs_season)).
Well, obviously, I didn't mean all of his tenure. And yes, there were guys signed, but did they matter? Not really. In 06 we hardly signed anyone other than a few role players.....and Ty Law.

All I'm saying is, a lot of the guys we signed this year, they're going to make an impact right now. Not just serve time on the bench or practice squad.

matthewschiefs
06-19-2010, 03:02 AM
Nonsense. In 2007 alone, we signed McIntosh, Donnie Edwards, Eddie Drummond, Napo, Darche, Boone, and McGraw.

(OK I didn't remember that off the top of my head. 2007 Kansas City Chiefs season - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Kansas_City_Chiefs_season)).


07 was the last year we were highly active in the free agent market.We tried to fill our needs with any free agent we could find for the longest time. We were able to get to the playoffs a few times doing that but were never able to get to the superbowl. Like I have been saying I think the new GM/Head coach no what they are doing. I go back to the pats since like it or not whatever job title he had Pioli was a big part in there team. He was one of the key guys in building there teams. They made there team MOSTLY through the draft. Tom Brady was not a high profile guy when it came to the draft that year. 6th round. That worked out well. Given time the same thing could happen in KC. Sure they could fail but until they do I will expect this team to be great in the next couple of year.

bwilliams
06-19-2010, 12:53 PM
07 was the last year we were highly active in the free agent market.We tried to fill our needs with any free agent we could find for the longest time. We were able to get to the playoffs a few times doing that but were never able to get to the superbowl. Like I have been saying I think the new GM/Head coach no what they are doing. I go back to the pats since like it or not whatever job title he had Pioli was a big part in there team. He was one of the key guys in building there teams. They made there team MOSTLY through the draft. Tom Brady was not a high profile guy when it came to the draft that year. 6th round. That worked out well. Given time the same thing could happen in KC. Sure they could fail but until they do I will expect this team to be great in the next couple of year.

Look, it will be a long, long time before any team finds a Tom Brady in the 6th round again. That was a once-in-a-lifetime find.

And NE was in no way built promarily throught the draft! They were very heavily involved in FA when it won its SBs! Mike Vrabel, Roman Phifer, Mike Compton, Joe Andruzzi, Jermaine Wiggins, David Patten, Antowain Smith, Marc Edwards, Bobbie Hamilton, Anthony Pleasant, and Otis Smith (11 of 22) were guys they brought in in 2000-2001 who were starters on the SB team.

NE knew back then that you needed good vets at important spots. Like ILB, DL, and OL. They didn't try to fill their gaps just in the draft. That's part of what I mean when I say that we're doing the opposite of what NE did back in its SB era.

bwilliams
06-19-2010, 01:08 PM
Well, obviously, I didn't mean all of his tenure. And yes, there were guys signed, but did they matter? Not really. In 06 we hardly signed anyone other than a few role players.....and Ty Law.

All I'm saying is, a lot of the guys we signed this year, they're going to make an impact right now. Not just serve time on the bench or practice squad.

Do you think that the guys we signed are ready to be starters, except for Thomas Jones?

I doubt even Wiegmann's mom thinks he'll be starting opeining day. I mean, I like the signing, it gives us a veteren presence in the locker room and a good backup, but if he's starting we have big problems.

If Urban and Lilja start, that means McCluster and Asamoah aren't ready to step into their positions. Because they play the exact same spots (slot WR and RG). Neither are intended to be the long term solutions.

And Shaun Smith might start, but Ron Edwards is our NT so far in camp. He's just the cheapest backup we could find in FA.

matthewschiefs
06-19-2010, 05:03 PM
Look, it will be a long, long time before any team finds a Tom Brady in the 6th round again. That was a once-in-a-lifetime find.

And NE was in no way built promarily throught the draft! They were very heavily involved in FA when it won its SBs! Mike Vrabel, Roman Phifer, Mike Compton, Joe Andruzzi, Jermaine Wiggins, David Patten, Antowain Smith, Marc Edwards, Bobbie Hamilton, Anthony Pleasant, and Otis Smith (11 of 22) were guys they brought in in 2000-2001 who were starters on the SB team.

NE knew back then that you needed good vets at important spots. Like ILB, DL, and OL. They didn't try to fill their gaps just in the draft. That's part of what I mean when I say that we're doing the opposite of what NE did back in its SB era.

2000-01 team is not the only team that was any good. I think they were also pretty good in 2003 2004 and then again in 07 except that one little loss at the end LOL.

some of the names you listed were not big names at the time. Wes welker was also a free agent pick up can you tell me you had any idea how could he was going to be in New england. Pioli has a history of finding guys that no one thinks will be a big deal and makeing them work. Given time he can do the same thing in KC. All I am saying is let this team take ONE snap on the field before you start dogging on them.

brdempsey69
06-20-2010, 08:02 PM
And you know the worst thing? Last year we were lucky. We had almost no injuries to key players. Cassel and Dorsey missed a couple games. But on the whole, the guys we consider key this year stayed healthy. What if we're not so lucky this year? What if continual double teams wear down our top-5 DEs? What if our lousy OTs get our QB killed? What if our QB gets Chambers/Bowe killed by throwing the ball time after time into traffic? How well will older guys like Waters, Vrabel, and Jones hold up?

And I love the Chiefs because I grew up loving the Chiefs. Not because they're winning Super Bowls or making smart decisions.

BINGO !!

This concerns me as well. What happens if the team does get bit by the injury bug? Back to drafting in the top 5 next spring. Sorry folks, but that's just the way it is.

Canada
06-20-2010, 08:09 PM
BINGO !!

This concerns me as well. What happens if the team does get bit by the injury bug? Back to drafting in the top 5 next spring. Sorry folks, but that's just the way it is.

The same can be said for any team.

bwilliams
06-20-2010, 09:16 PM
2000-01 team is not the only team that was any good. I think they were also pretty good in 2003 2004 and then again in 07 except that one little loss at the end LOL.

some of the names you listed were not big names at the time. Wes welker was also a free agent pick up can you tell me you had any idea how could he was going to be in New england. Pioli has a history of finding guys that no one thinks will be a big deal and makeing them work. Given time he can do the same thing in KC.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're confusing Belichick and Pioli there. Pioli was a part of scouting draft picks, signing players to contracts, and selecting what players to go after in FA, but you're overstating his importance there. He wasn't a GM, and he wasn't the final decision maker on anything.

I know the 2000-2001 wasn't the only good Pats team, but it's the most famous one. The Pats have always been active in FA, either in signing cheap veteran FAs, or in trading for the pieces they need. While you can point to the Colts, Steelers, and Packers as teams that build through the draft, the Pats are an active FA team.

And I know the guys I referenced weren't considered great at the time. And they weren't even that great on the Pats - only adequate. That the Pats coaching brought out the made them what they were.

But my point is that they recognized that holes existed on the team and they did what they had to fill those gaps until they could find young replacements in the draft. Instead of doing that, we're denying that we even have needs that need to be filled.

P.S. Belichick traded a 2nd and 7th for Welker. The same year he traded a 4th for Randy Moss. *Everyone* thought those were genius moves at the time.


All I am saying is let this team take ONE snap on the field before you start dogging on them.

I would, except we're starting basically the same team in 2010 as we did in 2009. I know how Ron Edwards performs as a NT. How Albert and O'Callaghan do as a RT and LT. How Williams and Mays do as ILBs. They don't do well.

brdempsey69
06-20-2010, 09:23 PM
The same can be said for any team.

Not correct. Don't kid yourself into thinking the Chiefs have the kind of quality depth that a team like the Saints or some of the other teams have.

Connie Jo
06-20-2010, 11:03 PM
I dunno. You're right that the statement was probably too overencompassing. Some people do have legitimate reasons for thinking we'll be better.

But it bugs me to no end that people (main) excuses usually boil down to their hope that every underperforming player we have takes a magical step forward because we hired two coordinators, both of whom were fired in disgrace from their last coaching jobs.

I'm unfortunately out of the country on business every August to December. I get to watch NFL games on a torrent site, but I don't get to go to any of the games.

I understand a person needs to work, well, most need to that is...but August through December I couldn't handle being out of the country. Shoot, you not only miss attending Chiefs games, but being home for major holidays with family...I don't think I could do that. Seriously, I feel badly you miss those months being 'home', so to speak.


Originally Posted by Canada http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?p=192821#post192821)
I dont think anyone here thinks that we are a SB contender right now, but most do think we have improved.

I don't think most on this board realistically believe the Chiefs will be a Super Bowl Contender in 2010.

However...I DO!! I believe each and every new season that the Chiefs are a Super Bowl Contender! Seriously, I DO! Now, one would think that after 39 consecutive seasons of my witnessing their not returning to a Super Bowl...I would give up and admit to being a blind fool! OH!...but not I...I will believe the Chiefs are a SB contender each season until I die, then I'm gonna believe it from Heaven! I'm gonna believe it eternally!

Why not believe it? It's better to think postively than negatively, forget realistically...I face reality daily, I'd rather not go there with my Chiefs, HA!

GO CHIEFS!! Super Bowl Champions 2010! YEEHAW!! :yahoo:


Look, if you want to admit that my view is reality and most posters is not, then that's enough for me.

You ran with that one didn't ya? HA! You DO have a sense of humor and laugh behind the PC! YEEHAW!!
:lol:

Allow me to re-phrase my comment/opinion to be more precisely realistic. :D

Realistically, I see it this way...each off season we have the opportunity to make improvements. Realistically, like any other team in the NFL, we are restricted in many aspects as to just how much we can improve each off season. Realistically, the Chiefs have made more positive moves this off season than they have in a very long time, possibly more than any other team in the NFL.

Realistically, it's not that those of us who comment positively wear rose colored glasses, it's simply we choose to focus on the positive aspects more than the negative. Realistically, we have positive attitudes because we finally have more to be positive entering a new season, rather than not. You choose to focus on the 'rather than not' negative side, lol.

Realistically, each new season we begin with a clean slate...another opportunity to make the playoffs, advance to a Super Bowl. I choose to take advantage of that reality and go into each new season with a positive attitude we will have a winning season. The reality is...there is no reality until the season begins...it's all speculation at this point, including yours, as to whether or not we will have a winning or losing season.

As I said, I face negative reality daily, I take one day at a time, and choose not to speculate negatively on a future reality, which in reality isn't a reality. Anything is possible tomorrow, next week, next month, or whenever, of which can alter the future either positively or negatively. It ain't over till it's over...that's the reality of life my friend...including related to our beloved Chiefs.

I'm totally burned out & exhausted with discussing reality now...how about you?
:lol:

matthewschiefs
06-20-2010, 11:15 PM
Whoa, whoa, whoa. You're confusing Belichick and Pioli there. Pioli was a part of scouting draft picks, signing players to contracts, and selecting what players to go after in FA, but you're overstating his importance there. He wasn't a GM, and he wasn't the final decision maker on anything.

I know the 2000-2001 wasn't the only good Pats team, but it's the most famous one. The Pats have always been active in FA, either in signing cheap veteran FAs, or in trading for the pieces they need. While you can point to the Colts, Steelers, and Packers as teams that build through the draft, the Pats are an active FA team.

And I know the guys I referenced weren't considered great at the time. And they weren't even that great on the Pats - only adequate. That the Pats coaching brought out the made them what they were.

But my point is that they recognized that holes existed on the team and they did what they had to fill those gaps until they could find young replacements in the draft. Instead of doing that, we're denying that we even have needs that need to be filled.

P.S. Belichick traded a 2nd and 7th for Welker. The same year he traded a 4th for Randy Moss. *Everyone* thought those were genius moves at the time.



I would, except we're starting basically the same team in 2010 as we did in 2009. I know how Ron Edwards performs as a NT. How Albert and O'Callaghan do as a RT and LT. How Williams and Mays do as ILBs. They don't do well.


Whatever Piolis title was he is WIDELY regarded as being A HUGE factor in building the Pats to what they were.

The point about the pats coaching is half what I am saying. We have 2 of those coaches in KC now. They will help guys be better just like they did in New England. They are now in the same role as before.

Moss was the one that preseason was the big name. He was the one that made the big news. Welker became the talk later on in the season after he started to show what he could do. We have added a few free agents this year and have added our draft picks GIVE THEM A CHANCE they can be stars down the road just like Wellker is now.

We TRIED the build through the free agent market for a LONG time. We won 0 titles. When you fail at something you dont just keep doing it. Its part of the reason we got in the boat that we are in. Granted herm edwards didnt help matters but we tried the free agent building of a team. fact is there is not 1 way to build a team you just have to do it right and IT TAKES TIME.

What you no is how they played in 09 with a year less under belt with less coaching that they will get this year. Fact is Coaching IS going to be a factor. This team is already in a FAR better spot then they were a year ago. Just wait and see.

bwilliams
06-21-2010, 12:23 AM
I understand a person needs to work, well, most need to that is...but August through December I couldn't handle being out of the country. Shoot, you not only miss attending Chiefs games, but being home for major holidays with family...I don't think I could do that. Seriously, I feel badly you miss those months being 'home', so to speak.

It's OK in terms of holidays. I usually get home third week of December, right in time for Christmas. I do miss going to Chiefs (and Royals) games, though.


You ran with that one didn't ya? HA! You DO have a sense of humor and laugh behind the PC! YEEHAW!!
:lol:

Allow me to re-phrase my comment/opinion to be more precisely realistic. :D

Realistically, I see it this way...each off season we have the opportunity to make improvements. Realistically, like any other team in the NFL, we are restricted in many aspects as to just how much we can improve each off season. Realistically, the Chiefs have made more positive moves this off season than they have in a very long time, possibly more than any other team in the NFL.

Realistically, it's not that those of us who comment positively wear rose colored glasses, it's simply we choose to focus on the positive aspects more than the negative. Realistically, we have positive attitudes because we finally have more to be positive entering a new season, rather than not. You choose to focus on the 'rather than not' negative side, lol.

Realistically, each new season we begin with a clean slate...another opportunity to make the playoffs, advance to a Super Bowl. I choose to take advantage of that reality and go into each new season with a positive attitude we will have a winning season. The reality is...there is no reality until the season begins...it's all speculation at this point, including yours, as to whether or not we will have a winning or losing season.

As I said, I face negative reality daily, I take one day at a time, and choose not to speculate negatively on a future reality, which in reality isn't a reality. Anything is possible tomorrow, next week, next month, or whenever, of which can alter the future either positively or negatively. It ain't over till it's over...that's the reality of life my friend...including related to our beloved Chiefs.

I'm totally burned out & exhausted with discussing reality now...how about you?
:lol:

A little. OK, a lot. And you may be absolutely right that this season will be great. That my negativity is unfounded.

But I just don't see the positive moves. I think there are several teams that did better than us this offseason, both in drafts and in FA, (Buccaneers, Seahawks, Rams, Dolphins, Jets, Ravens, and even *gulp* Raiders). I don't like our FA acquisitions (except Jones) and I didn't like our draft (except Berry and Asamoah).

I admire your positveness. I really, really do. And I'd love nothing more than to share it. But I won't be able to until we start winning games. Hopefully, you'll be able to dredge up these posts in mid-November and laugh at how negative I was. But nothing right now leads me to believe that we're going to have a good year.

bwilliams
06-21-2010, 12:37 AM
Whatever Piolis title was he is WIDELY regarded as being A HUGE factor in building the Pats to what they were.

The point about the pats coaching is half what I am saying. We have 2 of those coaches in KC now. They will help guys be better just like they did in New England. They are now in the same role as before.

Moss was the one that preseason was the big name. He was the one that made the big news. Welker became the talk later on in the season after he started to show what he could do. We have added a few free agents this year and have added our draft picks GIVE THEM A CHANCE they can be stars down the road just like Wellker is now.

Pioli was an important part of the Pats dynasty. But he wasn't as important as I think you think he was. He helped Belichick do the dirty work in signing players, and Belichick took his advice as it related to drafts and personnel. But that's about the extent of it. He did great in his personnel evaluations, but he wasn't a GM or HC, and he wasn't the biggest reason those teams were built.

Well, again, Belichick traded for Welker. He didn't sign him as a FA. And everyone loved the trade at the time. Poeple may have not expected him to do as great as he did, but everyone thought it was a genius move.

And the difference between Welker and Urban (for example) is that Welker was seen as a rising star when he was traded for. He was an accomplished KR/PR and a good slot WR. NE had to trade a 2nd and 7th for him. Do you think we could get a 7th for Lilja, Smith, Wiegmann, and Urban combined?

Now, they could be diamonds in the rough. Or they could be complete and total busts. Would either be that surprising?


We TRIED the build through the free agent market for a LONG time. We won 0 titles. When you fail at something you dont just keep doing it. Its part of the reason we got in the boat that we are in. Granted herm edwards didnt help matters but we tried the free agent building of a team. fact is there is not 1 way to build a team you just have to do it right and IT TAKES TIME.

We did try being active in FA under Vermiel, when we thought we were a player or two away. Mostly because we were a player or two away. A couple more defensive players and we could have made serious runs. But it didn't happen.

And the really big difference between then and now is that we're uncapped. We sank ourselves into a cap mess with deals like Ty Law's and Surtain's. We don't have that problem anymore. Also, I'm not saying we needed to sign the biggest FAs on the market. There were plenty of mid-price, mid-range FAs that we passed on for no discernable reason. John Henderson comes to mind.


What you no is how they played in 09 with a year less under belt with less coaching that they will get this year. Fact is Coaching IS going to be a factor. This team is already in a FAR better spot then they were a year ago. Just wait and see.

OK, you're *guessing* they're in a far better spot. You *hope* they're the coaching will help. But no evidence exists yet for either.

I mean, I hope it's true too. But I don't see how coaching, no matter how good, is going to make Ron Edwards 30 pounds heavier or a whole lot stronger.

jtandcrew
06-21-2010, 01:12 AM
:bananen_smilies046: I dont agree with most of what that article has said! I also dont agree with what most of what Bwilliams has said! Cassell being weak armed? Do you remember a guy named Montana? He did not have the deep ball but was accurate! We dont know if Cassell is as accurate till we get a O-line! We did make an improvement in FA and the draft! That will take care of the INT's. Albert is in a make or break year! NO ONE can call him a bust till after this year! If they do? They are f'ing idiots that know nothing about football! If he busts this year? move him to guard after Waters retires! Dorsey to small? Thats the first I have heard! Not to long ago they (CC members and media) were complaining about Henderson being to tall! What the F? What is the correct weight and height to play a d-lineman in the NFL? I would for 1 rather have Dorsey than Henderson due to age! He can learn to use his strengh and "small" size in the pass rush! Cassell will be more accurate when he is better protected! Which he will be this year! That is all! :lol: :bananen_smilies046:

matthewschiefs
06-21-2010, 01:12 AM
Pioli was an important part of the Pats dynasty. But he wasn't as important as I think you think he was. He helped Belichick do the dirty work in signing players, and Belichick took his advice as it related to drafts and personnel. But that's about the extent of it. He did great in his personnel evaluations, but he wasn't a GM or HC, and he wasn't the biggest reason those teams were built.

Well, again, Belichick traded for Welker. He didn't sign him as a FA. And everyone loved the trade at the time. Poeple may have not expected him to do as great as he did, but everyone thought it was a genius move.

And the difference between Welker and Urban (for example) is that Welker was seen as a rising star when he was traded for. He was an accomplished KR/PR and a good slot WR. NE had to trade a 2nd and 7th for him. Do you think we could get a 7th for Lilja, Smith, Wiegmann, and Urban combined?

Now, they could be diamonds in the rough. Or they could be complete and total busts. Would either be that surprising?



We did try being active in FA under Vermiel, when we thought we were a player or two away. Mostly because we were a player or two away. A couple more defensive players and we could have made serious runs. But it didn't happen.

And the really big difference between then and now is that we're uncapped. We sank ourselves into a cap mess with deals like Ty Law's and Surtain's. We don't have that problem anymore. Also, I'm not saying we needed to sign the biggest FAs on the market. There were plenty of mid-price, mid-range FAs that we passed on for no discernable reason. John Henderson comes to mind.



OK, you're *guessing* they're in a far better spot. You *hope* they're the coaching will help. But no evidence exists yet for either.

I mean, I hope it's true too. But I don't see how coaching, no matter how good, is going to make Ron Edwards 30 pounds heavier or a whole lot stronger.

Your right I am guessing and hopeing that we are in a far better spot just like you are guessing that we are going to be going through anther year just like we have the last few seasons.

I am guessing based on a leap of faith. I no that Pioli was a part in building the pats into what they are. He CAN and I think WILL do the same thing in KC.

We have gone out and done far more and better thing then what we did a year ago, And we were able to DOUBLE our win total from 08 that is a good sign that we are going in the right direction. Yes its easy to double few wins but Its a start. You dont become a great team overnight.

I really do hope that we will look at this in NOV/DEC and I will be able to say I told you so and I have faith that I will. But I do grant there is a chance that you will be the one saying I told you so. I just fell that before we can judge ANY of our offseason moves we should see this team play. And hopefuly WIN. :chiefs:

bwilliams
06-21-2010, 01:33 AM
:bananen_smilies046: I dont agree with most of what that article has said! I also dont agree with what most of what Bwilliams has said! Cassell being weak armed? Do you remember a guy named Montana? He did not have the deep ball but was accurate! We dont know if Cassell is as accurate till we get a O-line! We did make an improvement in FA and the draft! That will take care of the INT's. Albert is in a make or break year! NO ONE can call him a bust till after this year! If they do? They are f'ing idiots that know nothing about football! If he busts this year? move him to guard after Waters retires! Dorsey to small? Thats the first I have heard! Not to long ago they (CC members and media) were complaining about Henderson being to tall! What the F? What is the correct weight and height to play a d-lineman in the NFL? I would for 1 rather have Dorsey than Henderson due to age! He can learn to use his strengh and "small" size in the pass rush! Cassell will be more accurate when he is better protected! Which he will be this year! That is all! :lol: :bananen_smilies046:

A few things:

1. It's true we'll never know if Cassel is good enough until we get an adequate OL. I don't think we have close to an adequate OL.

2. I don't thing anyone was calling Albert a bust. Just saying he shouldn't be our LT. He isn't quick enough and he's going to get our QB killed.

3. We improved the OL with the Asamoah pick. Lilja and Wiegmann are not improvements. Our line also declined by the fact that Waters is a year older.

4. We have the worst RT in the NFL in O'Callghan.

5. Dorsey's size has been an issue since college. He's an undersized DT who makes up for his lack of size with his motor, athleticism, and speed.

6. Henderson would have played NT (he is tall for it, but he's better than what we've got), with Dorsey sticking at DE. Entirely different positions.

KC fan 01
06-21-2010, 01:40 AM
BOOO That Article! BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
:whipping1:

Connie Jo
06-21-2010, 01:41 AM
It's OK in terms of holidays. I usually get home third week of December, right in time for Christmas. I do miss going to Chiefs (and Royals) games, though.



A little. OK, a lot. And you may be absolutely right that this season will be great. That my negativity is unfounded.

But I just don't see the positive moves. I think there are several teams that did better than us this offseason, both in drafts and in FA, (Buccaneers, Seahawks, Rams, Dolphins, Jets, Ravens, and even *gulp* Raiders). I don't like our FA acquisitions (except Jones) and I didn't like our draft (except Berry and Asamoah).

I admire your positveness. I really, really do. And I'd love nothing more than to share it. But I won't be able to until we start winning games. Hopefully, you'll be able to dredge up these posts in mid-November and laugh at how negative I was. But nothing right now leads me to believe that we're going to have a good year.

That's great you're home in time for Christmas! Last year was the first Christmas I missed with my son in his entire life...he was snowed in, 6' drifts covering 2 miles of country road. I felt more badly for him than me, he was upset, has a bit of his mom's sentimental heart, haha. Heck, he only lives 4 miles down the road, but my daughter made it here from 35 miles away with no problem. I'm blessed no doubt, as I have always been able to spend holidays with family...and tailgate at Arrowhead with great Chiefs Crowd friends!

Thanks for admiring my positive attitude, haha. Sometimes, that's all we can rely on to survive lifes bad times. I developed a 'positive attitude' habit as a self survival tool in childhood. As far as dredging up your negative posts if we have a winning season...nah, I'm not usually one to say 'I told ya so'. It's not that I don't feel like it every now & then, it's just that one usually feels humilated enough when proven wrong, no need for me to contribute to their humiliation. :)

I don't laugh at your negativity directly persay. I laugh at the ironery, knowing that your often unpopular negative threads are a positive for us all. Your threads are often comprised of elements necessary to encourage active posting and hold reading interest. Such as...justified concerns facing the Chiefs are debated in depth, intelligent point of views are voiced from negative and positive aspects. The occasional poke of sarcastic humor from you & others needs to be included as well, haha.

I also giggle at your sense of humor, of which at times is not directly obvious, rather a bit discreet. Overall I sense you are one of the good guys bwilliams.

:chiefs:

Canada
08-11-2010, 08:53 PM
Me too. But DJ's bolting as soon as the season ends.He is is he?

bwilliams
08-11-2010, 09:08 PM
He is is he?

IMO, yep. If you know differently, don't keep it to youself.

Canada
08-11-2010, 09:14 PM
IMO, yep. If you know differently, don't keep it to youself.

Nope, just guessing. Kinda like you do. I just like to keep it positive cause I like this team!! :bananen_smilies046:

stricken721
08-11-2010, 09:18 PM
Nope, just guessing. Kinda like you do. I just like to keep it positive cause I like this team!! :bananen_smilies046:

:sFl_canada2: Team Canada

bwilliams
08-11-2010, 10:00 PM
Nope, just guessing. Kinda like you do. I just like to keep it positive cause I like this team!! :bananen_smilies046:
DJ is being wasted as a 3-4 ILB. I don't see why he'd stay.

Xanathol
08-12-2010, 12:49 AM
So why does Bowe take so much crap? Because of two key issues with him:

1. He got busted for steroid use.

2. He led the league in dropped passes even considering a 4 game suspension. The worse is that the vast majority of the drops were passes that were well placed and clearly should have been caught.Care to provide a link to either of these or do you plan to just make it all up and hope to go unchecked?

#1. Per this (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4663877), "However he took a diuretic for weight loss", he did not take steroids, he took a banned substance ( water pill ). I'm sure you'll dismiss that, but wasn't Bowe criticized by Hailey for coming in overweight? Why yes, I believe he did... So much for your first reason.

#2. Source? Exactly how many dropped passes did he have? Video of said passes? I'll wait...


Taking shots at the few bright spots is no way to handle the anger from having one put over on you in a trade ( ie. Cassel ).

fairladyZ
08-12-2010, 12:56 AM
DJ is being wasted as a 3-4 ILB. I don't see why he'd stay.

I'll just leave this here for you..

The problem with this is that the people "in the know" seem to disagree with the notion that DJ is better suited for the 4-3.
Take Zach Thomas (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2538/Zach_Thomas) for example. Here's what he said (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/9/21/1045327/some-big-plays-for-chiefs-lb) shortly after joining the Chiefs last summer.

"This is going to be his best scheme," he said. "It's definitely weakside linebacker-friendly. It can exploit the talent that he has. Everybody knows how talented and fast he is. If he gets this down where he's not thinking, just rolling around and just having fun and he knows what to do, he'll be a great player in this scheme."
And DJ? He said his role in the Chiefs defense reminds him of his days at Texas (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/5/20/881945/chiefs-lb-derrick-johnson-on-the)and the scheme makes him more comfortable.
I can't argue with the idea that DJ needs to be playing more somewhere (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/4/6/1408629/derrick-johnson-wants-to-be-a) but to say he's not a fit in the Chiefs defense is a flawed argument, I think.

Canada
08-12-2010, 12:56 AM
Care to provide a link to either of these or do you plan to just make it all up and hope to go unchecked?

#1. Per this (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4663877), "However he took a diuretic for weight loss", he did not take steroids, he took a banned substance ( water pill ). I'm sure you'll dismiss that, but wasn't Bowe criticized by Hailey for coming in overweight? Why yes, I believe he did... So much for your first reason.

#2. Source? Exactly how many dropped passes did he have? Video of said passes? I'll wait...


Taking shots at the few bright spots is no way to handle the anger from having one put over on you in a trade ( ie. Cassel ).http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&type=receiving&rank=232

bwilliams
08-12-2010, 11:35 AM
I'll just leave this here for you..

The problem with this is that the people "in the know" seem to disagree with the notion that DJ is better suited for the 4-3.

Take Zach Thomas (http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/players/2538/Zach_Thomas) for example. Here's what he said (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/9/21/1045327/some-big-plays-for-chiefs-lb) shortly after joining the Chiefs last summer.
"This is going to be his best scheme," he said. "It's definitely weakside linebacker-friendly. It can exploit the talent that he has. Everybody knows how talented and fast he is. If he gets this down where he's not thinking, just rolling around and just having fun and he knows what to do, he'll be a great player in this scheme."
And DJ? He said his role in the Chiefs defense reminds him of his days at Texas (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2009/5/20/881945/chiefs-lb-derrick-johnson-on-the)and the scheme makes him more comfortable.
I can't argue with the idea that DJ needs to be playing more somewhere (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/4/6/1408629/derrick-johnson-wants-to-be-a) but to say he's not a fit in the Chiefs defense is a flawed argument, I think.

Interesting stuff. I'd love to be wrong about DJ. I'm praying he gets the start over Mays, and we can find out once and for all in 2010.

Xanathol
08-14-2010, 02:52 AM
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&type=receiving&rank=232
Thanks for the link!

So Bowe had 11 and ' he sucks'...

Rather interesting - all these guys must suck by that poster's standard as well I guess...

Vernon Davis (11)
Dallas Clark (9)
Marques Colston (8)
Calvin Johnson (8)
Michael Crabtree (7)
Donald Driver (7)
Andre Johnson (7)
Randy Moss (7)


What's I also find interesting is that KC has 3 guys with 11, 9, and 9 drops, respecitvely. Some feel that is the fault of the WRs, others that its the fault of the QB; not all that different from Russell's time in Oakland... I'm just sayin'! ;)

bwilliams
08-16-2010, 12:06 PM
Thanks for the link!

So Bowe had 11 and ' he sucks'...

Rather interesting - all these guys must suck by that poster's standard as well I guess...

Vernon Davis (11)
Dallas Clark (9)
Marques Colston (8)
Calvin Johnson (8)
Michael Crabtree (7)
Donald Driver (7)
Andre Johnson (7)
Randy Moss (7)


What's I also find interesting is that KC has 3 guys with 11, 9, and 9 drops, respecitvely. Some feel that is the fault of the WRs, others that its the fault of the QB; not all that different from Russell's time in Oakland... I'm just sayin'! ;)

It isn't an accident that Peyton Manning and Drew Brees's WRs drop so few passes, and Russell's and Orton's drop so many. Bad QBs force the ball or throw it into traffic. I don't think Cassel's a bad QB per se, but he has little time to throw because our OL is so bad, which means he tends to force the ball or throw into traffic.