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texaschief
08-29-2010, 09:04 PM
You are the GM of some team in the league... you're coming off a playoff appearance, but it's painfully obvious that you're team is about to need to be rebuilt because you've allowed the team to get too old...

Let's say you have a 4th year running back that has just put up back to back 1700+ yard seasons. He's SCREAMING for a new contract and has a few selfish character issues. He is OBVIOUSLY the best player on your old and aging team but isn't too crazy about playing in your city or for the head coach you hired.

On the other side of the ball, you have a franchise DE that IF re-signed, you could build a quite formidable defense around. BUT, he also has a few character issues off the field that involve alcohol. He's a third year player, coming off a 7.5 sack season, down from 11 the year before... BUT, he LOVES the city, he REALLY loves your HC and WANTS to play for him for a long time...

Before the draft, you have to make a decision to either re-sign your RB or trade him to help with a rebuild. If you pay him, there's no way you can move him... which then, leaves your only trade piece the DE which you'd like to have to build your defense around.

Now, remember that your team has a TON of old players. You've allowed this team to become the OLDEST team in the league and it barely snuck into the playoffs this year.

Now, you get a phone call... it's an un-named team calling about the availability of your star RB. They were an 8-8 team this past season and will have their picks somewhere in the middle of each round. They are offering a first and second round pick for your star RB... YOU want 2 firsts for your RB...

What do you do?

bwilliams
08-29-2010, 10:01 PM
Shoot the hostage?

tornadospotter
08-29-2010, 10:09 PM
You, keep Jared Allen, and send lj piece of crap away.

slc chief
08-29-2010, 10:19 PM
You, keep Jared Allen, and send lj piece of crap away.
exactly i so wish they would have went the other way and kept jared and shipped lj out

honda522
08-29-2010, 11:14 PM
Too late now....

brdempsey69
08-29-2010, 11:39 PM
I'm trading LJ for the 1st and 2nd rounder that is being offered & keeping JA. Unfortunately, it went the other way with LJ being kept and JA being traded for a 1st and a pair of 3rd rounders in 2008. Vikings fans feel that they got the better end of the deal -- and, unfortunately, they are right.

SalinaChiefsFan
08-30-2010, 12:14 AM
Vikings fans feel that they got the better end of the deal -- and, unfortunately, they are right.

This. Oh God and baby Jesus, this. The entire state of Minnesota should be giving us a collective

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/photoplog/images/2178/medium/1_nelson_ha_ha.jpg


BUT, the past is the past. Nothing left to do with this mistake but learn from it.

ARE YOU LISTENING PIOLI?!?! DONT MAKE ME COME UP THERE!!!

:D

honda522
08-30-2010, 12:33 AM
I'm trading LJ for the 1st and 2nd rounder that is being offered & keeping JA. Unfortunately, it went the other way with LJ being kept and JA being traded for a 1st and a pair of 3rd rounders in 2008. Vikings fans feel that they got the better end of the deal -- and, unfortunately, they are right.
Maybe in short term we didn't get the best deal..but we got Brandon Albert, Flowes, Charles out of it.

Those guys should be here long term.

captainamerica
08-30-2010, 12:51 AM
What I would've done in that situation was given Al Saunders a chance to be the HC instead of Herm Edwards the year before this scenario, so that away LJ wouldn't have been run to death like he was under the worm.

With LJ taking on a lighter load he wouldn't have had as much bargaining leverage. Plus Trent might've stayed healthy that year too under Saunders, this giving LJ even less leverage. Therefore maybe we could've kept them both.

brdempsey69
08-30-2010, 01:11 AM
Maybe in short term we didn't get the best deal..but we got Brandon Albert, Flowes, Charles out of it.

Those guys should be here long term.

The Chiefs did not get Flowers out of it -- Flowers was a 2nd round pick. We got Albert ( being played out of position at LT & struggling ), Charles, and Brad Cottam (injury casualty -- may never get back on the field). Allen may very well be still with the Vikings when Charles and Albert are gone. The contracts of Albert & Charles may both end as of 2012. I know Albert's does.

Ryfo18
08-30-2010, 01:59 AM
The Chiefs did not get Flowers out of it -- Flowers was a 2nd round pick. We got Albert ( being played out of position at LT & struggling ), Charles, and Brad Cottam (injury casualty -- may never get back on the field). Allen may very well be still with the Vikings when Charles and Albert are gone. The contracts of Albert & Charles may both end as of 2012. I know Albert's does.

Jamaal's contract is up after this year.

Chiefster
08-30-2010, 02:02 AM
Jamaal's contract is up after this year.

...Then comes the contest for a new multimillion dollar contract renewal.

texaschief
08-30-2010, 04:09 AM
I had a 20 minute conversation with Herm Edwards friday evening as he was in San Antonio for a nationally televised football game that featured my alma mater.

He's a REALLY nice guy and had nothing but nice things to say about Pioli and the new group leading KC. He was cool enough to let me know some behind the scenes information that isn't for public consumption... However, I WILL say that after the quick discussion, I came away hating Carl Peterson. I knew he did some bad things in the 90s to kill this team, but I couldn't believe some of COMPLETELY STUPID decisions that he made.

I came away with a COMPLETELY new perspective on the whole LJ situation and a new understanding why LJ was ridden into the ground... (again, thank you CP).

I also came away as a renewed fan of Jared Allen. I had an opinion of Allen as a little bit of a d-bag for his affection for drinking and driving. However, I was unaware of the campaign of misinformation CP decided to launch to persuade the Chiefs fans to support a trade.

I feel a little better about Haley. Edwards was quite complementary of Haley. He genuinely likes Todd and likes his style of coaching. He DID say that the owner told him to tone down his language in a forceful manner... that kinda shocked me... KINDA.

I started the conversation with the question if Pioli gave him a fair shake at the job and he said, "oh yeah... they just had different views on things." Which, I'm sure is obvious by now.

Anyway, he was real nice and I appreciated the sincerity and the interest in talking to a big Chiefs fan deep in the heart of Texas.

jtandcrew
08-30-2010, 06:16 AM
:bananen_smilies046: Sorry! I trade them both off for a couple 1st's and some extra picks! Didnt hppen but woulda been nice!:bananen_smilies046:

Seek
08-30-2010, 12:00 PM
People are forgeting that we got good players for the the picks on Jared Allen, plus, Jared Allen got a much bigger contract than LJ. MUCH bigger. Jared played just as much into his departure as Carl Peterson.

bwilliams
08-30-2010, 12:40 PM
People are forgeting that we got good players for the the picks on Jared Allen, plus, Jared Allen got a much bigger contract than LJ. MUCH bigger. Jared played just as much into his departure as Carl Peterson.

When Jared Allen is being inducted in the Hall of Fame, the AFLAC trivia quesiton will probably be:

Question: "What players did the Chiefs trade Hall of Famer Jared Allen for?"

Answer: "Branden Albert, DuJuan Morgan, and Jamaal Charles."

Everyone will then laugh at the Chiefs for having made this terrible deal.

And don't forget, Minnesota got John Sullivan, their starting center, out of the deal too when we gave them our 6th round pick. So, in essence, we got a bust at SS, a below average LT, and a good RB in a split backfield in exchange for the best DE in the NFL and a great young C.

We made the worst trade since the Herschel Walker one when we traded JA.

MDChiefs!
08-30-2010, 01:27 PM
we got Jamaal Charles from the Jared Allen trade...

If JA and CP werent getting along, what can you do

Seek
08-30-2010, 01:51 PM
When Jared Allen is being inducted in the Hall of Fame, the AFLAC trivia quesiton will probably be:

Question: "What players did the Chiefs trade Hall of Famer Jared Allen for?"

Answer: "Branden Albert, DuJuan Morgan, and Jamaal Charles."

Everyone will then laugh at the Chiefs for having made this terrible deal.

And don't forget, Minnesota got John Sullivan, their starting center, out of the deal too when we gave them our 6th round pick. So, in essence, we got a bust at SS, a below average LT, and a good RB in a split backfield in exchange for the best DE in the NFL and a great young C.

We made the worst trade since the Herschel Walker one when we traded JA.

Look, My uncle who passed away from Lukemia three years ago, Knew Jared Allen pretty well. They spent a lot of time with together because of a common friend. My uncle told me two years before this trade, that Jared would not be a Chief after his contract. I basically told my uncle he was wrong and had no idea what he was saying because he was not a Chiefs fan and I was and I was sure the Chiefs would retain him. He Just looked at me, and said you wait and see. I then told him, the Chiefs will just franchise him then. He then said, if that happens There is zero chance he will be a Chief again.

Now, you as a fan can sit here and blast away at things CP did to cause this situation. I won't argue against that. Fact of the matter it was either CP leaving or Allen leaving, because they both were not stay. I didn't want him traded and I still don't, but some times you have to take what you get. Charles, and Albert are good players for one player who was going to leave one way or another.

If the trade had not happened you probably would still see Allen on a different team and the Chiefs would be in a much bigger hole than they are today.

It was a good trade.

texaschief
08-30-2010, 02:54 PM
I agree that the trade was a good trade because I didn't believe there was anyway that Allen would stay after his contract was up. However, after talking with Herm, I feel pretty sick about that whole situation.

I think the haul that the Chiefs got from that trade extends past just the picks they received. I think the fact that they had another first round pick in their back pocket allowed the team to draft Dorsey and not worry about taking a top 5 LT. I didn't like the Morgan pick with Pollard and Page already sitting in the backfield. I liked the Cottam pick because he was good value at the spot and still love the Charles pick.

Jared Allen is a great player, but he would be out of position once Haley and Pioli came in. He probably wouldn't still be on the team anyway. So, either way, he probably wouldn't be a Chief and trying to figure out what the package would've been for him and his enormous new salary would be pretty difficult. I think the Chiefs maximized his value in that trade.

But CP doesn't get off the hook for the things he did in both the LJ and JA situations and to the Chiefs overall during this decade. After seeing what he allowed to happen, I'd have to rank him behind Al Davis in the GM category... at least Davis saw the Super Bowl...

matthewschiefs
08-30-2010, 03:10 PM
I think that the fact tha Allen would have most likely not resigned made the Chiefs have to make a move to get something back for him. C.P. Is the one on the hook for that. When you have a player that has that much talent you do whatever you can that won't hurt your team in the long run to make and keep that player happy and to keep that player on your team. I don't think that's what C.P did and that's one of the many reasons that he is no longer the GM of the Chiefs.

When it's all said and done I think it will depend on how good Charles is on how people look at the deal. If Charles has a good long Run as the RB of the Chiefs and is in the running for the hall of fame then it will be a good deal for both teams. Weather or not that happens remains to be seen. But I don't think that it's a sure thing that we will be laughed at if and when Allen goes into the hall of fame.

bwilliams
08-30-2010, 03:20 PM
Why do you all think JA wouldn't have resigned? He was looking for a long-term contract and CP refused to give him one. Instead, he franchised and traded him. JA would be a Chief today if we had a competent GM in 2008.

Don't take my word for it. Chiefs put franchise tag on Allen, who wants to stay - NFL - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3252292)

All of this stuff about the inevitability of JA leaving is misinformation spread by Arrowhead One to placate fans and to make the ownership look less incompetent.

matthewschiefs
08-30-2010, 03:37 PM
Why do you all think JA wouldn't have resigned? He was looking for a long-term contract and CP refused to give him one. Instead, he franchised and traded him. JA would be a Chief today if we had a competent GM in 2008.

Don't take my word for it. Chiefs put franchise tag on Allen, who wants to stay - NFL - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3252292)

All of this stuff about the inevitability of JA leaving is misinformation spread by Arrowhead One to placate fans and to make the ownership look less incompetent.


We agree on something :lol: :bananen_smilies046: :chiefs:

Seek
08-30-2010, 04:03 PM
Why do you all think JA wouldn't have resigned? He was looking for a long-term contract and CP refused to give him one. Instead, he franchised and traded him. JA would be a Chief today if we had a competent GM in 2008.

Don't take my word for it. Chiefs put franchise tag on Allen, who wants to stay - NFL - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3252292)

All of this stuff about the inevitability of JA leaving is misinformation spread by Arrowhead One to placate fans and to make the ownership look less incompetent.

I already told you my source and he didn't live at One Arrowhed Drive. That was told to me before there was even any debate on this.

Who releases informatin to the media????
The media is a tool used to help leverage their argument and that definately came from Allen's agent.

I read just as many articles contrary to Jared wanting to stay. Of course that is the Chiefs opinion.

I did hear Allen on the radio himself say that if he was give the franchise he would be very upset. He also back tracked in that same inteview, realizing what he had said.

You are right though, he did want a long term contract and as soon as he got it, he was bad mouthing the Chiefs.

Hayvern
08-30-2010, 04:37 PM
Look Carl Peterson was a business man, albeit an a-hole, but nevertheless. Carl knew there was no way he was going to be able to keep Johnson and Allen on the team with the money the team had to spend for them.

I think Peterson was hoping to knock Allen down a step or two from his off-field antics in the hopes that Allen would have come at a lesser price. Unfortunately this backfired in almost every way possible.

Not only did Allen NOT lower his contract price, he got pissed off at Peterson which pretty much ended his time here as long as Peterson was at the helm.

It further backfired on Peterson, since the negative publicity did lower Peterson's worth to the rest of the league. Now, instead of Allen being worth everything he should have been, he was tainted by the bad mouthing Peterson gave him.

Peterson was an ***, I am glad that Hunt Junior has learned this and eradicated this piece of garbage, but Pioli is also a businessman and I guarantee you will see similar tactics used in the future here. I am guessing they will be more subtle for a while, but there is no doubt that these are the games that are played in the big business of football.

chief31
08-30-2010, 11:59 PM
Maybe in short term we didn't get the best deal..but we got Brandon Albert, Flowes, Charles out of it.

Those guys should be here long term.

We did not get those players for Jared Allen. We could have drafted those same players even if we had kept JA.

And, despite what anyone's uncle says, (RIP) Boomer Grigsby says that Jared wanted to be one of those guys who wears the same jersey for his entire career. He wanted to be a Chief, no matter how much he despised CP.

OTR Chiefs fan
08-31-2010, 09:46 PM
We did not get those players for Jared Allen. We could have drafted those same players even if we had kept JA.

And, despite what anyone's uncle says, (RIP) Boomer Grigsby says that Jared wanted to be one of those guys who wears the same jersey for his entire career. He wanted to be a Chief, no matter how much he despised CP.

Just think how much farther along our defense would be if JA was still aboard? Then I think we could honestly give the division a legimate run. Right now I think we're a year away. :chiefs: