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pbatrucker
10-05-2010, 12:08 PM
Tom Brady and Wes Welker talk up Matt Cassel, who's about to go against Peyton Manning | Don't Kill the Mellinger (http://mellinger.kansascity.com/entries/tom-brady-and-wes-welker-talk-matt-cassel-whos-about-go-against-peyton-manning/)
I thought some of you might think this funny.
Then again, Cassel might not trust some of his receivers.

figcrostic
10-05-2010, 12:16 PM
Welker: “I think his biggest strength is his arm, and you know, his reads. He’s a physical specimen. I don’t know if too many people know about that, but Matt is very strong. So even running the football, being strong in the pocket, shed off tacklers, things like that. He always did a great job of putting the ball right on the money.”
Brady: “I’m guessing probably his accuracy. He’s a very accurate passer. He’s also very mobile, he can keep plays alive. He’s not going to run, but he can keep the play alive and let people get open a little bit. He’s got a good feel.”



This is not the Cassel I know. I want this guy! I thought they were talking about Ben Rothlesbooger

hometeam
10-05-2010, 12:51 PM
This article is nuts.

Hayvern
10-05-2010, 04:28 PM
This article is not nuts, and it is not far off base.

Look, Cassel is strong, he is tough, not very many quarterbacks could have played week in and week out last season behind the line we had. The guy took a pounding and came back for more.

As for his arm and accuracy, well I admit he has not been the best for us, but he is getting better. Last season he was able to put up some points, even when you consider our receivers dropped a good amount of passes thrown to them.

Is he good enough to lead this team? I think the jury is still out, but if he keeps improving each game, then he is doing what is asked of him. I am still on the Cassel wagon.

figcrostic
10-05-2010, 05:55 PM
This article is not nuts, and it is not far off base.

Look, Cassel is strong, he is tough, not very many quarterbacks could have played week in and week out last season behind the line we had. The guy took a pounding and came back for more.

As for his arm and accuracy, well I admit he has not been the best for us, but he is getting better. Last season he was able to put up some points, even when you consider our receivers dropped a good amount of passes thrown to them.

Is he good enough to lead this team? I think the jury is still out, but if he keeps improving each game, then he is doing what is asked of him. I am still on the Cassel wagon.

Cassel is strong in that he can take a hit and he can shed a tackle but Arm strength? No. He does not have a strong throwing arm.

Canada
10-05-2010, 06:19 PM
Cassel is strong in that he can take a hit and he can shed a tackle but Arm strength? No. He does not have a strong throwing arm.
Why, because he never gets the opportunity to throw it deep?

yashi
10-05-2010, 06:23 PM
Whatever. Welker and Brady are Cassel's friends. Of course they're going to talk him up. I just want to see consistent production.

Connie Jo
10-05-2010, 06:35 PM
This article is not nuts, and it is not far off base.

Look, Cassel is strong, he is tough, not very many quarterbacks could have played week in and week out last season behind the line we had. The guy took a pounding and came back for more.

As for his arm and accuracy, well I admit he has not been the best for us, but he is getting better. Last season he was able to put up some points, even when you consider our receivers dropped a good amount of passes thrown to them.

Is he good enough to lead this team? I think the jury is still out, but if he keeps improving each game, then he is doing what is asked of him. I am still on the Cassel wagon.

I agree. I have a difficult time understanding why some Chiefs fans don't consider all the negative aspects Cassel faced his first season as a Chief. Very little blame can be placed upon Cassel's shoulders as to our poor record last season. Those negative aspects were an overwhelming many, and I doubt in the history of the NFL a QB had to face all the numerous negatives and obstacles Cassel did in one season ALL AT ONCE.


Cassel is strong in that he can take a hit and he can shed a tackle but Arm strength? No. He does not have a strong throwing arm.

I disagree, I've witnessed his strong arm in person, both at games & at training camp. Just because he doesn't see or think he has an opportunity to use his strong arm doesn't mean it's not there when he does have an opportunity.

figcrostic
10-05-2010, 09:46 PM
Why, because he never gets the opportunity to throw it deep?

No because I have seen him throw a deep ball and it starts get all fluttery and doesn't reach the distance intended. You could say Brodie has a strong arm not Jamarcus strong (btw both bad qb's) but strong Cassel has an average possibly less then average arm at the NFL level. Brodie threw a football 68 yards at the qb challenge I would put Cassell in the 55-60 and probably accurately throw it 40-45 yards, but in all honesty when does a qb need to be able to throw it much farther. It takes a fast WR 4.5+ seconds to run a 40 in full pads and that's flat out running, so really we are looking at 6+ seconds to throw a ball that far and have a wr be able to get to it. That's a long time.

figcrostic
10-05-2010, 09:51 PM
I disagree, I've witnessed his strong arm in person, both at games & at training camp. Just because he doesn't see or think he has an opportunity to use his strong arm doesn't mean it's not there when he does have an opportunity.

I have been to many games as well and I have seen him underthrow many wr's. Cassel has never been known for his arm I have never heard anyone say that he has a strong arm other then this article even the most diehard Cassel fans haven't said that. Cassel is no Joe Flacco or Matt Schaub or young Brett Favre in that he's not gonna throw the ball 65+ yards down field with great accuracy, but honestly I think throwing power is overrated. Jamarcus Russel has a very very strong arm and look at how pathetic he is. I think accuracy is underrated Chad Pennington made a career on that but couldn't throw the ball far at all.

Connie Jo
10-05-2010, 11:01 PM
I have been to many games as well and I have seen him underthrow many wr's. Cassel has never been known for his arm I have never heard anyone say that he has a strong arm other then this article even the most diehard Cassel fans haven't said that. Cassel is no Joe Flacco or Matt Schaub or young Brett Favre in that he's not gonna throw the ball 65+ yards down field with great accuracy, but honestly I think throwing power is overrated. Jamarcus Russel has a very very strong arm and look at how pathetic he is. I think accuracy is underrated Chad Pennington made a career on that but couldn't throw the ball far at all.

In counter debate...underthrowing is far from indicating simply a weak arm. There can be many reasons a ball is underthrown...timing between QB & intended target WR one of them.

I've read other articles mentioning Cassel's strong arm, as well heard others in comment mention it. Cassel may not be known for it because he's not a media golden boy like Manning, of which we're brainwashed continously by the media with how strong & great his arm is. As well, Cassel hasn't been a starting QB long enough to establish a well known rep for his arm being strong or not. Montana was in his 5th year before most began to realize his talents & strength of arm. Reps take time to build over games & seasons.

Lastly, it also depends upon opponents strengths & weakness' defensively, our coaches game plan & calling against an opponent. We have a strong reliable rushing game, of which a long passing game isn't worth the risk of interception turnovers when a team has a strong rushing game.

Manning is intercepted ALOT with his long pass game...shoot, 4 times we intercepted him in the last fluke of a wildcard playoff game with the Colts. That was the year they went on to the SB I think, if memory is correct, and statistically from a defensive point of view...they never should've won the playoff game against us. Our then so called 'lame' defense was all over the Colts. Our offense let our defense down that playoff game.

Connie Jo
10-05-2010, 11:10 PM
Another thought related...in my memory anyway, I've seen Cassel overthrow more than underthrow.

Chiefster
10-05-2010, 11:14 PM
Another thought related...in my memory anyway, I've seen Cassel overthrow more than underthrow.


True, but neither is particularly good. :lol:

Connie Jo
10-05-2010, 11:45 PM
True, but neither is particularly good. :lol:

Oh, I totally agree, haha.

Pro_Angler
10-06-2010, 12:06 AM
I dont think that Cassels bigest problem his is arm strength (its not bad probably above average for NFL QB) its the reading of the field, looking off recievers and making adjustments to his throws.
Cassell in my eyes is almost purely a spot/timing passer. he has issues when the play gets pushed longer or recievers cant run the exact routes game planned for.
Hopefully these things will get better if so he can be a top ten QB in this league.

Connie Jo
10-06-2010, 12:09 AM
Just for the sake of debate and reminding...here is a recap of what all Cassel faced his first season as a Chief:

1) New team, that of which had a multiple season losing record.
2) Pressure, stress, & hassle relocating to a new city with his family. Becoming a daddy for the first time in 2009.
3) New GM & head coach, OC, etc..
4) Firing of the OC right before the season, game book of which he'd been working with tossed, started over from scratch.
5) Weak O-line, often sacked or on the run.
6) Public & behind the scenes locker room controversy for the team with LJ's fiasco.
7) Letting go of LJ, Charles taking over as starting RB.
8) Fans reaching a peak of unhappiness after multiple losing seasons, of which Cassel wasn't a Chief, but much of the built up unhappiness was directed at him in 2009, fans often booing and heckling him...at times unjustifiably so.
9) Numerous dropped balls by WR's, as well as missed catches that were easily catchable.
10) Dwayne Bowe's 4 week suspension, bringing in a WR with Chambers, of which Cassel had no established QB-WR work ethic & timing relationship with.
11) Cassel was only a 2nd year starter in 2009, typical pressures that come with being a somewhat unestablished QB in the NFL.

There's likely more not even coming to mind. The man is a professional athlete, not a Super Hero. My memory isn't always the best these days, but I sure can't remember an NFL QB ever facing so much change, adversity, obstacles, and problems all at once in one season. Some such as firing the OC before regular season, not replacing him, rather the HC also being the OC...I don't 'think' has ever occurred in the NFL, haha.

tornadospotter
10-06-2010, 12:11 AM
Another thought related...in my memory anyway, I've seen Cassel overthrow more than underthrow.
My major problem with Cassel has been the low throws knock down by the defensive line, and passes thrown uncatch able, either thrown behind or to hard, basically a pass that is a bullet, with no touch, or finesse. Its like whip it out there. That is what I want to see improved on, and maybe it is happening now that he is, as well as the rest of the Offense, gaining believe in each other. Soon, we will know.

Connie Jo
10-06-2010, 12:16 AM
I dont think that Cassels bigest problem his is arm strength (its not bad probably above average for NFL QB) its the reading of the field, looking off recievers and making adjustments to his throws.
Cassell in my eyes is almost purely a spot/timing passer. he has issues when the play gets pushed longer or recievers cant run the exact routes game planned for.
Hopefully these things will get better if so he can be a top ten QB in this league.

This I do agree with, as I've witnessed the same, including in the first half of the 49er's game. I too am hopeful Cassel does have the talent and ability to become a top ten QB in the NFL. I've seen indicators he's capable, and think he needs to simply regain confidence in himself & team. :)

Pro_Angler
10-06-2010, 12:22 AM
TY Connie, I just tell it like I see it. None of these things arent fixable with a higher comfort level with his teamates and time.

Connie Jo
10-06-2010, 01:32 AM
My major problem with Cassel has been the low throws knock down by the defensive line, and passes thrown uncatch able, either thrown behind or to hard, basically a pass that is a bullet, with no touch, or finesse. Its like whip it out there. That is what I want to see improved on, and maybe it is happening now that he is, as well as the rest of the Offense, gaining believe in each other. Soon, we will know.

Yep, I've seen him throw those "bullets" too, that is exactly what I think of when I see Cassel & other QB's pass like that.."bullets" being fired & speeding towards a receiver. I've seen him throw balls so strong & hard that is what causes them to be inaccurate. That's why I don't agree he has a weak arm, nor underthrows as much as he overthrows, as well as I've seen him throw long strong balls inaccurate and accurate.

My PC is old, and doesn't do well loading video's from NFL.com, jambs my PC when I try, so couldn't watch the replays of the 49er's game. However, in my memory it seems the pass Cassel threw to Moeaki was fairly long, strong, & accurate enough for Moeaki to make the catch for a TD. When I think of long passes, I'm not thinking Hail Mary passes, rather long traditional field passes.

SIC J
10-06-2010, 01:39 AM
If it wasn't for his "strong arm" and "bullet" pass, that pass to McCluster that went for a 30+ yard TD would've been intercepted.

2010chiefs
10-06-2010, 01:43 AM
Matt Cassel is an extremeley conservative QB if you ask me. He throws the ball away too many times. We aren't judging just any starting QB here. We are judging a 50 million dollar QB. I think that's why us Chiefs fans are so critical of him. He avoids throwing interceptions by never taking any risks. It's a good thing and bad. My worry now is that he got into a nice comfort zone against the niners and I hope he hasn't lost it during the bye week. GO CHIEFS!

pbatrucker
10-06-2010, 06:26 AM
Let's not forget that Cassel is still a young QB. He's only started 3 years since high school.
As far as throwing the ball away too much. Do you want to go back to the 42 sacks from last year? If no one is open get rid of it.
Do you realize that the majority of the passes thrown in the NFL are thrown to a specific spot before the receiver comes out of his break.
IMO Cassel's major problem is trusting his receivers to be where they are supposed to be. he seems to be bonding with the younger guys, but Bowe and Chambers are almost invisible. I just hope Chambers hasn't signed yet another contract and gone in the tank.

yashi
10-06-2010, 11:15 AM
Arm strength is about velocity and zip on the medium range passes. Cassel doesn't have a strong arm, but this is not new information to any scouting types.

A more important question is: does he have enough arm strength to make all the throws? Hell if I know, I haven't seen him try to hit a 20 yard deep out (the hardest route to hit in football) because he's usually sacked or checking down by the time a receiver makes his break.

Just for fun, his 4 TD passes so far:

McCluster vs. 49ers - McCluster did the brunt of the work, but nice job by Cassel of getting that ball out quickly. Any hesitation would have been a pick 6 for the other team.

Flea flicker to Bowe vs. 49ers - Good throw, but not exactly something you can take a lot out of. It was mostly playing catch deep since the safety bit hard, just making sure not to underthrow it.

Moeaki vs. 49ers - Put it where only Moeaki could catch it, which is great, though Moeaki had to make possibly the catch of the season to bring it in.

Moeaki vs. Chargers - Yikes! Moeaki was wide open like 10 yards away from Cassel, and he made him have to leap for the ball.

I want to see a TD pass this weekend where I can be like, "Whoa, what a pass!" because I haven't had that moment just yet.

figcrostic
10-06-2010, 11:27 AM
Arm strength is about velocity and zip on the medium range passes. Cassel doesn't have a strong arm, but this is not new information to any scouting types.

A more important question is: does he have enough arm strength to make all the throws? Hell if I know, I haven't seen him try to hit a 20 yard deep out (the hardest route to hit in football) because he's usually sacked or checking down by the time a receiver makes his break.

Just for fun, his 4 TD passes so far:

McCluster vs. 49ers - McCluster did the brunt of the work, but nice job by Cassel of getting that ball out quickly. Any hesitation would have been a pick 6 for the other team.

Flea flicker to Bowe vs. 49ers - Good throw, but not exactly something you can take a lot out of. It was mostly playing catch deep since the safety bit hard, just making sure not to underthrow it.

Moeaki vs. 49ers - Put it where only Moeaki could catch it, which is great, though Moeaki had to make possibly the catch of the season to bring it in.

Moeaki vs. Chargers - Yikes! Moeaki was wide open like 10 yards away from Cassel, and he made him have to leap for the ball.

I want to see a TD pass this weekend where I can be like, "Whoa, what a pass!" because I haven't had that moment just yet.

This is the truth.

Seek
10-06-2010, 11:48 AM
I have seen Cassel make very accurate throws. I have seen some way off passes too. It also helps making an accurate throw if the receiver is actually open and Cassel doesn't have to put the ball at a place where only the receiver can catch it.

Which he did very well against San Fran.

Hayvern
10-07-2010, 03:29 AM
Arm strength is about velocity and zip on the medium range passes. Cassel doesn't have a strong arm, but this is not new information to any scouting types.

A more important question is: does he have enough arm strength to make all the throws? Hell if I know, I haven't seen him try to hit a 20 yard deep out (the hardest route to hit in football) because he's usually sacked or checking down by the time a receiver makes his break.

Just for fun, his 4 TD passes so far:

McCluster vs. 49ers - McCluster did the brunt of the work, but nice job by Cassel of getting that ball out quickly. Any hesitation would have been a pick 6 for the other team.

Flea flicker to Bowe vs. 49ers - Good throw, but not exactly something you can take a lot out of. It was mostly playing catch deep since the safety bit hard, just making sure not to underthrow it.

Moeaki vs. 49ers - Put it where only Moeaki could catch it, which is great, though Moeaki had to make possibly the catch of the season to bring it in.

Moeaki vs. Chargers - Yikes! Moeaki was wide open like 10 yards away from Cassel, and he made him have to leap for the ball.

I want to see a TD pass this weekend where I can be like, "Whoa, what a pass!" because I haven't had that moment just yet.

I don't know man, those two big passes against the 49ers really started to turn me around to be a believer again. Even if the Safety bit on that play, the pass was still perfectly thrown, and for a long distance too. There are not too many guys who can make that throw. at that distance, it would have been very easy for it to come up short.

The same with the Moeaki pass. Again, that was not a 10 yard pass, that had some air under it and it was thrown hard. Moeaki made a great catch, those are the types of catches we need these guys to be making.

Both of those throws started to bring me back to Cassel as a leader for this team. I want to see about 5 more of those this weekend!

Connie Jo
10-07-2010, 04:12 AM
Arm strength is about velocity and zip on the medium range passes. Cassel doesn't have a strong arm, but this is not new information to any scouting types.

A more important question is: does he have enough arm strength to make all the throws? Hell if I know, I haven't seen him try to hit a 20 yard deep out (the hardest route to hit in football) because he's usually sacked or checking down by the time a receiver makes his break.

Just for fun, his 4 TD passes so far:

McCluster vs. 49ers - McCluster did the brunt of the work, but nice job by Cassel of getting that ball out quickly. Any hesitation would have been a pick 6 for the other team.

Flea flicker to Bowe vs. 49ers - Good throw, but not exactly something you can take a lot out of. It was mostly playing catch deep since the safety bit hard, just making sure not to underthrow it.

Moeaki vs. 49ers - Put it where only Moeaki could catch it, which is great, though Moeaki had to make possibly the catch of the season to bring it in.

Moeaki vs. Chargers - Yikes! Moeaki was wide open like 10 yards away from Cassel, and he made him have to leap for the ball.

I want to see a TD pass this weekend where I can be like, "Whoa, what a pass!" because I haven't had that moment just yet.

I agree. The only exception, though I wouldn't call it a true exception, haha...is when I witnessed him throw the ball to Moeaki...I did have a reaction of, "Whoa, what a pass, and what an awesome catch!" I bet my eyes were the size of silver dollars! :D

Connie Jo
10-07-2010, 04:25 AM
I don't know man, those two big passes against the 49ers really started to turn me around to be a believer again. Even if the Safety bit on that play, the pass was still perfectly thrown, and for a long distance too. There are not too many guys who can make that throw. at that distance, it would have been very easy for it to come up short.

The same with the Moeaki pass. Again, that was not a 10 yard pass, that had some air under it and it was thrown hard. Moeaki made a great catch, those are the types of catches we need these guys to be making.

Both of those throws started to bring me back to Cassel as a leader for this team. I want to see about 5 more of those this weekend!

Yep, although I agree with yashi in points of determining arm strength, those two you mention were the passes erasing the bit of doubt I was having in the first half of the 49er's game. I'm still confused why he did some of what he did in the first half that had me doubting. I think it was the first half anyway...he intentionally grounded the ball at one point, I was like WTFrick was that all about? Then he had a couple other wobbly make no sense passes, missed a WR wide open at some point.

I had a few beers, so maybe I'm confused, but in my memory, Cassel looked like a different QB the 2nd half! He came out confident, strong, showing leadership, more accurate, and so on. That's proof to me that he's got what it takes, I've seen it...the question for me is can he consistently keep it. :)

Hayvern
10-07-2010, 04:42 AM
Yep, although I agree with yashi in points of determining arm strength, those two you mention were the passes erasing the bit of doubt I was having in the first half of the 49er's game. I'm still confused why he did some of what he did in the first half that had me doubting. I think it was the first half anyway...he intentionally grounded the ball at one point, I was like WTFrick was that all about? Then he had a couple other wobbly make no sense passes, missed a WR wide open at some point.

I had a few beers, so maybe I'm confused, but in my memory, Cassel looked like a different QB the 2nd half! He came out confident, strong, showing leadership, more accurate, and so on. That's proof to me that he's got what it takes, I've seen it...the question for me is can he consistently keep it. :)

Eh, downing a pass, or throwing a pass out of bounds is not the end of the world. All quarterbacks do it from time to time, yes, even the best ones. I bet we see Peyton do it three or four times on Sunday.

THe only thing that got me fired up was the interception. That interception in the 49ers game was really the turning point for Matt though, after that he really picked up his game.

Interceptions happen too. I don't get too hung up on those as long as they are not habitual.