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figcrostic
10-25-2010, 09:57 AM
Who do you think could make the prob-bowl this year from the Chiefs?

Heres my list:

Tamba Hali
Brandon Flowers
Jamaal Charles
Dwayne Bowe (if he keeps playing like his last two games almost 200 yards and 4 td's.)
Mccluster (if he was used more.)
Derrick Johnson

stricken721
10-25-2010, 10:03 AM
Tamba Hali, Brandon Flowers, and Brian Waters are my picks.

D-Bowe has put up some good stats these past two games, but that doesn't mean he's pro bowl bound. He'll need about 100 yards a game average before people would even look at voting him in. He'll also need to go up a legitimate pass D with good numbers before we can say his numbers mean anything at all about his ability.

matthewschiefs
10-25-2010, 10:09 AM
Hali and Flowers have played like pro bowlers all year on defense.

Charles for sure on offense. And Bowe if he keeps this hot streak that he is on going.

I really think if Cassel plays like he has the last 2 weeks he would be worth consideration. I no that with all the other star qbs in the AFC. But I would like to see the Chiefs qb in the pro bowl.

figcrostic
10-25-2010, 10:11 AM
Tamba Hali, Brandon Flowers, and Brian Waters are my picks.

D-Bowe has put up some good stats these past two games, but that doesn't mean he's pro bowl bound. He'll need about 100 yards a game average before people would even look at voting him in. He'll also need to go up a legitimate pass D with good numbers before we can say his numbers mean anything at all about his ability.

If he continues to have games like he has been playing he will be a pro-bowler. No-one consistently has 100 yard games other then maybe Andre Johnson also only 5 players in the whole NFL have more TD's then D-bowe and the two games have moved him from like 90 to 41. He could completely suck the rest of the year but if he continues to play like he has he will be top ten easy

stricken721
10-25-2010, 10:13 AM
Hali and Flowers have played like pro bowlers all year on defense.

Charles for sure on offense. And Bowe if he keeps this hot streak that he is on going.

I really think if Cassel plays like he has the last 2 weeks he would be worth consideration. I no that with all the other star qbs in the AFC. But I would like to see the Chiefs qb in the pro bowl.

Cassel would definitely be against some tough competition. If you go here you can see his projected stats (link at the bottom) He would have to keep playing like this. But like you, I agree it would be nice to see a Chiefs QB in the pro bowl. Who knows what will happen? :D

Matt Cassel Profile - Kansas City Chiefs - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=8644)

figcrostic
10-25-2010, 10:15 AM
Hali and Flowers have played like pro bowlers all year on defense.

Charles for sure on offense. And Bowe if he keeps this hot streak that he is on going.

I really think if Cassel plays like he has the last 2 weeks he would be worth consideration. I no that with all the other star qbs in the AFC. But I would like to see the Chiefs qb in the pro bowl.

I would to and Matt has definitely played better but he doesn't have anywhere near pro bowl numbers.

stricken721
10-25-2010, 10:16 AM
If he continues to have games like he has been playing he will be a pro-bowler. No-one consistently has 100 yard games other then maybe Andre Johnson also only 5 players in the whole NFL have more TD's then D-bowe and the two games have moved him from like 90 to 41. He could completely suck the rest of the year but if he continues to play like he has he will be top ten easy

I see what you're trying to say, and I agree. But two games doesn't mean much yet. If he does keep playing like this it would still be some tough competition, at the way he's playing right now you're looking at him getting barely over 900 yards. Who you play will also come into factor when you get votes, his last two games have come against teams that are horrible at defending the pass. Give him somebody good to go against, and he'll get more looks.

figcrostic
10-25-2010, 10:18 AM
Cassel would definitely be against some tough competition. If you go here you can see his projected stats (link at the bottom) He would have to keep playing like this. But like you, I agree it would be nice to see a Chiefs QB in the pro bowl. Who knows what will happen? :D

Matt Cassel Profile - Kansas City Chiefs - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=8644)

Very tough Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, etc.

figcrostic
10-25-2010, 10:21 AM
I see what you're trying to say, and I agree. But two games doesn't mean much yet. If he does keep playing like this it would still be some tough competition, at the way he's playing right now you're looking at him getting barely over 900 yards. Who you play will also come into factor when you get votes, his last two games have come against teams that are horrible at defending the pass. Give him somebody good to go against, and he'll get more looks.

He has averaged 90 yards and 2 td's in the last two games that would put him at almost 1300 yards and 25 td's at the end of year. Obviously it's not gonna happen but I could see him getting 1200 yards and 12 td's those are pro-bowl numbers not all pro but second team for sure.

stricken721
10-25-2010, 10:24 AM
He has averaged 90 yards and 2 td's in the last two games that would put him at almost 1300 yards and 25 td's at the end of year. Obviously it's not gonna happen but I could see him getting 1200 yards and 12 td's those are pro-bowl numbers not all pro but second team for sure.

Dwayne Bowe Profile - Kansas City Chiefs - ESPN (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10467)

I would love to see him eclipse 1000 yards, 1200-1300 is a stretch but not out of the question.

Hayvern
10-25-2010, 10:28 AM
If the pro-bowl was ONLY about numbers on the field, then that would be one thing, but since it is also about Star power, that precludes Bowe and Cassel. Face it, there are other receivers who are flashier, faster, with better career numbers than Bowe. Bowe has to put up numbers like he is now for a couple more years before he beats out the other guys.

Here is who i think has a shot though:

Derrick Johnson - he is having a phenom year, if he stays in there, he could go.

Branden Flowers has made a name for himself and could go.

I would like to think Charles could go, but it is going to be tough to beat out Chris Johnson.

Waters is a good possibility, as is Casey Weigman.

I would like to say Hali has a chance, and he does, but he is going to have to get to the quarterback a little more. He has a chance against some of the teams we are goign to face soon.

stricken721
10-25-2010, 10:32 AM
Buffalo: 9th
Raiders: 6th
Broncos: 10th
Cardinals: 21st
Seattle: 29th
Chargers: 1st
Rams: 18th
Titans: 23rd


That's the rest of our opponents this season. Four teams are ranked in the top ten in passing D. Two of them we have to play twice. It's a small chance Bowe goes over 1000, and now after looking at that I take back what I said.. there's no chance of him getting 1200+ yards. But I'd love to eat crow.

Vanilla Garilla
10-25-2010, 11:27 AM
Wheres Thomas Jones? I know hes not a flashy new cat, but he still is getting the job done. In a major way!

Three7s
10-25-2010, 12:02 PM
The only obvious pro-bowler on this team is Brandon Flowers, everyone else has to step up their game a bit to make it.

Hali is having a nice year, but we know how the voting works. Unless you rock the world with sacks, you don't matter, and right now he's 12th in the league with 5.5.

DJ is playing fine football, but he's a bit inconsistent in pass coverage. He has a tendency to miss a couple of tackles each game too.

Those are the only ones that I really give a shot at making it if they turn it up.

Seek
10-25-2010, 12:52 PM
I think there are two players that have a legit shot at the pro-bowl.

I think if DJ keep playing like he has been, he has a chance.

Maybe Tamba. It will be tough as there are so many good De's in the league.

I think Flowers should be in, but he never seems to get any love for some stupid reason.

Hayvern
10-25-2010, 02:50 PM
I think there are two players that have a legit shot at the pro-bowl.

I think if DJ keep playing like he has been, he has a chance.

Maybe Tamba. It will be tough as there are so many good De's in the league.

I think Flowers should be in, but he never seems to get any love for some stupid reason.

That stupid reason is because he is playing on the Chief's team. If he was playing in Philadelphia, Atlanta, Dallas, or Indy he would have all the attention he could ever desire.

stricken721
10-25-2010, 03:34 PM
Speaking of the Pro Bowl.. We can vote now.

NFL.com - Pro Bowl Ballot (http://www.nfl.com/probowl/ballot)

pbatrucker
10-25-2010, 03:35 PM
If everyone stops talking about who should go to the pro bowl and go to NFL.com and vote for our Chiefs they might have a chance. You can vote as many times as you want. Voting is open until 12/20. I voted for all the Chiefs. Kind of pissed our leading recieverr isn't on the ballot.

Hayvern
10-25-2010, 03:48 PM
How do you get Tyson Jackson on the list, who only played one part of one game and NOT get Tony Moeki on the list?

pbatrucker
10-25-2010, 03:50 PM
How do you get Tyson Jackson on the list, who only played one part of one game and NOT get Tony Moeki on the list?
And Smith's not on it either.

captainamerica
10-25-2010, 07:43 PM
If we continue to lead the league in rushing, I bet that at least 2 or our O-lineman will make the pro-bowl. I'm guessing Waters and Wiegman, with Brandon Albert also being a solid possibility. I could also see Charles or Jones making it as well on offense.

On defense, I expect Flowers to make it. Other than that I think Hali and Johnson are the only ones with a chance to make it, with Dorsey also being a bit of a dark horse pick.

honda522
10-25-2010, 10:01 PM
Brandon Flowers will make it for sure. Period.

chief31
10-26-2010, 03:04 AM
Who do you think could make the prob-bowl this year from the Chiefs?

Heres my list:

Tamba Hali
Brandon Flowers
Jamaal Charles
Dwayne Bowe (if he keeps playing like his last two games almost 200 yards and 4 td's.)
Mccluster (if he was used more.)
Derrick Johnson

If things were to persist as they have been the past few games, I would have to say that both Cassel and Bowe would garner alot of attention by season's end.

However...


Very tough Peyton Manning, Phillip Rivers, etc.

This ^ is definitely a problem. Especially if you add the name Brady to that list.

As is.....


If the pro-bowl was ONLY about numbers on the field, then that would be one thing, but since it is also about Star power, that precludes Bowe and Cassel. Face it, there are other receivers who are flashier, faster, with better career numbers than Bowe. Bowe has to put up numbers like he is now for a couple more years before he beats out the other guys.

This^.

Couple those two problems with the fact that playing amazingly for the rest of the season is too late to get the attention for Pro Bowl voting, which ends on Dec. 20th.

So that would give players seven games to get some very big attention.

I just don't think that seven games, no matter how great, would be enough to win the required votes.


Here is who i think has a shot though:

Derrick Johnson - he is having a phenom year, if he stays in there, he could go.

Branden Flowers has made a name for himself and could go.

I would like to think Charles could go, but it is going to be tough to beat out Chris Johnson.

Waters is a good possibility, as is Casey Weigman.

I would like to say Hali has a chance, and he does, but he is going to have to get to the quarterback a little more. He has a chance against some of the teams we are goign to face soon.

Charles would need a couple of very big games real fast, I think. Aside from Johnson, there are several others who would likely get more votes.

Arian Foster. Geesh. That guy has been nothing short of amazing.

LT. Talk about name-recognition!

Darren Mcfadden. Yeah his last game was enormous. But he is third in The AFC is rushing, and that is despite missing some carries from an injury.

Then you add in guys like Mendenhall, Jones-Drew and Ray Rice, and it is doubtful that Charles would get the votes without moving up the rushing list, fast.

Also, I would definitely have to give the nod to Ron Edwards.

He won't get the votes, not even close. But he has been an unbelievable NT so far.

Of all the players who I doubted over the offseason, Edwards has been the biggest surprise to me, by far.

I have always liked him. But really didn't think he would be able to play NT well enough to convince me that we don't need a replacement for him.

Eventhough he is 31, the fire that I thought was our NT position is out.

OMGLadyGaga
10-26-2010, 11:04 PM
I agree with alot of the opinions in the thread, except for the cassel and bowe ones. As much as i love the chiefs its been no secret that cassel and bowe have been our most inconsistent players. Yes they have been playing better lately, but still not putting up godly numbers. Bowe has 18 catches through 6 games...thats not pro bowl material sorry to say. And Cassel, well we know what to expect. 15-23 for 200 yds and a touchdown or two. Nice, especially for the type of offense we have but not pro bowl not even close.

Flowers should be a shoe in, hes the one giving us a chance in the pass defense game, since we still get torched from time to time. Ultimately that might hurt him tho.

Charles and Jones splitting carries hurts each of their chances for the pro bowl. But since they are both putting up numbers, I think the league will give alot of credit towards our O-line and we shud definitely see a couple chiefs in there. Probably Weigman and Waters.

As for others? Hali is playing linebacker now, and theres definitely more "big name" LB's out there for sure. Dorsey i agree is a darkhorse but sacks seems to be all that matters to the masses.

Id love to see a pro bowl team full of chiefs, but id rather see this team play better and better and reach the playoffs and get a home game at arrowhead. Now that would be sweeeet!

chief31
10-27-2010, 02:48 AM
Charles and Jones splitting carries hurts each of their chances for the pro bowl. But since they are both putting up numbers, I think the league will give alot of credit towards our O-line and we shud definitely see a couple chiefs in there. Probably Weigman and Waters.

Great point about the o-line. I would venture to guess we could wind up with two or three guys from the o-line, including backups.

I agree that Cassel and Bowe are out.

But, if Cassel is getting comfortable with Bowe and Moeaki and the group keeps things at the productivity that they have been, so far...

And, what if they do it during a playoff game... or two?

That kind of attention could make them "big names", and get them into the discussion for following seasons.

I am pretty stoked about this team of late.:punk:

texaschief
10-27-2010, 03:16 AM
Tamba Hali
Glenn Dorsey
Derrick Johnson
Jamal Charles
Brian Waters
Dustin Colquitt
Dexter McCluster (special teams)

Chiefs coaching staff (losers of the AFC Championship game)

texaschief
10-27-2010, 03:20 AM
The only obvious pro-bowler on this team is Brandon Flowers, everyone else has to step up their game a bit to make it.

Hali is having a nice year, but we know how the voting works. Unless you rock the world with sacks, you don't matter, and right now he's 12th in the league with 5.5.

DJ is playing fine football, but he's a bit inconsistent in pass coverage. He has a tendency to miss a couple of tackles each game too.

Those are the only ones that I really give a shot at making it if they turn it up.

I'm having a REALLY hard time believing ANYONE from our secondary would make the Pro-Bowl if they stay ranked in the bottom quarter of the league in pass yards allowed.

Hayvern
10-27-2010, 03:26 AM
Hey, I would like to be a pro bowler. I bowled a 200 once!

Three7s
10-27-2010, 11:44 AM
Hey, I would like to be a pro bowler. I bowled a 200 once!
My highest is 220!

Three7s
10-27-2010, 11:48 AM
I'm having a REALLY hard time believing ANYONE from our secondary would make the Pro-Bowl if they stay ranked in the bottom quarter of the league in pass yards allowed.
Whoops, somehow missed this, so sorry for the double post!

Flowers DESERVES to make it. I don't care how bad the rest of our secondary is. Almost all of those passing yards are given up by the LBs and safeties! Flowers is giving up something like 3 yards per pass attempt, and is pretty much lock down on Flowers island.

He might not make it, and it would be a crime.

captainamerica
10-27-2010, 01:49 PM
My highest is 220!
I once bowled a 448!
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2010/10/35.jpg

Connie Jo
10-27-2010, 01:54 PM
I see what you're trying to say, and I agree. But two games doesn't mean much yet. If he does keep playing like this it would still be some tough competition, at the way he's playing right now you're looking at him getting barely over 900 yards. Who you play will also come into factor when you get votes, his last two games have come against teams that are horrible at defending the pass. Give him somebody good to go against, and he'll get more looks.

Oh, but you're forgetting the other games! Bowe only had one bad game, that was Indy...unless I'm forgetting some errors...he played very well against the Chargers, Browns, & 49er's too!!! I know he made some excellent catches during the first 3 games. He's had 5 good games, only 1 bad!! :D

Connie Jo
10-27-2010, 01:57 PM
Who do you think could make the prob-bowl this year from the Chiefs?

Heres my list:

Tamba Hali
Brandon Flowers
Jamaal Charles
Dwayne Bowe (if he keeps playing like his last two games almost 200 yards and 4 td's.)
Mccluster (if he was used more.)
Derrick Johnson

I agree. Also, although I did vote for him respectively as a Chiefs fan...I don't think Cassel will make it this year, and realistically he shouldn't as it stands now. Thomas Jones & Moekai are doing well & should be considered if they keep on keepin on their games too! :)

stricken721
10-27-2010, 02:03 PM
Oh, but you're forgetting the other games! Bowe only had one bad game, that was Indy...unless I'm forgetting some errors...he played very well against the Chargers, Browns, & 49er's too!!! I know he made some excellent catches during the first 3 games. He's had 5 good games, only 1 bad!! :D

Well against the Chargers no WR played well. Our leading receiver was Moeaki with only 21 yards. Bowe had 1 reception for 13 yards. Statistically speaking his first good game came against the 49ers when he got 61 yards and his first touchdown.

Connie Jo
10-27-2010, 02:13 PM
Well against the Chargers no WR played well. Our leading receiver was Moeaki with only 21 yards. Bowe had 1 reception for 13 yards. Statistically speaking his first good game came against the 49ers when he got 61 yards and his first touchdown.

I couldn't remember for sure without checking stats...just remember Bowe hadn't been dropping or missing catches like last season...this season, until Indy that is, haha. Anyway...the 61 yd catch for a TD is the one that stands out in my mind as being AWESOME!! I'm so blessed & grateful to be able to attend all the home games this year, witness such memorable plays by several of our Chiefs...there have been many this season to be in awe over!! YEEHAW!!

:chiefs:

stricken721
10-27-2010, 02:21 PM
I couldn't remember for sure without checking stats...just remember Bowe hadn't been dropping or missing catches like last season...this season, until Indy that is, haha. Anyway...the 61 yd catch for a TD is the one that stands out in my mind as being AWESOME!! I'm so blessed & grateful to be able to attend all the home games this year, witness such memorable plays by several of our Chiefs...there have been many this season to be in awe over!! YEEHAW!!

:chiefs:

I'll be there in just a couple more weeks. :chiefs:

figcrostic
10-27-2010, 02:24 PM
Oh, but you're forgetting the other games! Bowe only had one bad game, that was Indy...unless I'm forgetting some errors...he played very well against the Chargers, Browns, & 49er's too!!! I know he made some excellent catches during the first 3 games. He's had 5 good games, only 1 bad!! :D

:bananen_smilies046: Bowe gets a lot of hate because he has a big mouth, that said he doesn't seem to be a bad team he just has a personality. Some people have called him a pre-Madonna ala Larry Johnson-less, but I think that's unfair Bowe doesn't beat on women and think he's a gangster.

Connie Jo
10-27-2010, 02:27 PM
I'll be there in just a couple more weeks. :chiefs:

I know, and I'm sooooo excited!!! We'll have to make tailgate plans! I'm bringing you fudge in exchange for Clint's Salsa...don't forget my salsa! I've not had salsa & chips in a looooooong time...yummy for my tummy!! :D

Oh, by the way...sugar calories burn faster than salsa calories, so you come out ahead there! :D

stricken721
10-27-2010, 02:31 PM
I know, and I'm sooooo excited!!! We'll have to make tailgate plans! I'm bringing you fudge in exchange for Clint's Salsa...don't forget my salsa! I've not had salsa & chips in a looooooong time...yummy for my tummy!! :D

Oh, by the way...sugar calories burn faster than salsa calories, so you come out ahead there! :D

I'll be sure and get you some salsa and bring it up there. I can't wait to have some fudge. :yahoo: :yahoo:

texaschief
10-27-2010, 04:44 PM
Whoops, somehow missed this, so sorry for the double post!

Flowers DESERVES to make it. I don't care how bad the rest of our secondary is. Almost all of those passing yards are given up by the LBs and safeties! Flowers is giving up something like 3 yards per pass attempt, and is pretty much lock down on Flowers island.

He might not make it, and it would be a crime.

agreed

Three7s
10-27-2010, 07:06 PM
I once bowled a 448!
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2010/10/35.jpg
Touche......

Isawa_mo
10-27-2010, 07:09 PM
If we continue to have the number one rushing offense in the league, then atleast one lineman will likely have to go. Brian Waters would be the obvious choice. I would not rule out Albert though, if Cassel continues to stay upright. That normally seems to be the number one factor for a back side tackle making it to the pro bowl.

Pro_Angler
10-27-2010, 08:08 PM
I have a BBA card.. I bowl eagues I have a 224 average.

SIC J
10-27-2010, 08:52 PM
I think it will also depend on what the Chiefs record is at the time the voting ends.

figcrostic
10-27-2010, 09:17 PM
I have a BBA card.. I bowl eagues I have a 224 average.

That's good I used to average 215 but I haven't played in years.

Connie Jo
10-27-2010, 10:12 PM
:bananen_smilies046: Bowe gets a lot of hate because he has a big mouth, that said he doesn't seem to be a bad team he just has a personality. Some people have called him a pre-Madonna ala Larry Johnson-less, but I think that's unfair Bowe doesn't beat on women and think he's a gangster.

I've witnessed some arrogant humor from him at times on his Facebook page. It was his personal page then, he was one of my FB friends. He later deleted his personal page, created a fan page...not sure if he's managing it personally or not. Anyway, I never noted anything he said in bad taste, or running his mouth disrespectfully in any way...rather just arrogance but in a context of humor. He has a deep faith in God, which appears to be genuine based upon reading his comments. He's always been very respectful towards his fans on Facebook anyway, & I've heard the same from fans who have met him at signings & such too.

He's a bit flashy in personal attire, jewelry, but thats typical for many star athletes, celebs, etc.. Talented, creative, or artistic personalities are always at least a little bit eccentric...some more than others. Seriously, scientific research shows differences in the brain activity of artistic/talented people vs those who aren't...doesn't matter what their talent or art relates to...sports, music, painting, acting, creative arts, etc..

figcrostic
10-27-2010, 11:56 PM
I've witnessed some arrogant humor from him at times on his Facebook page. It was his personal page then, he was one of my FB friends. He later deleted his personal page, created a fan page...not sure if he's managing it personally or not. Anyway, I never noted anything he said in bad taste, or running his mouth disrespectfully in any way...rather just arrogance but in a context of humor. He has a deep faith in God, which appears to be genuine based upon reading his comments. He's always been very respectful towards his fans on Facebook anyway, & I've heard the same from fans who have met him at signings & such too.

He's a bit flashy in personal attire, jewelry, but thats typical for many star athletes, celebs, etc.. Talented, creative, or artistic personalities are always at least a little bit eccentric...some more than others. Seriously, scientific research shows differences in the brain activity of artistic/talented people vs those who aren't...doesn't matter what their talent or art relates to...sports, music, painting, acting, creative arts, etc..
Never read his facebook or twitter or any of that, but honestly he's a 26 year old rich athlete what's he supposed to act like? It's so weird how people view "Athletes" as role models yet when your around fans watching a football game they say the nastiest (and often funny) offensive things. I just find it a little hypocritical that people cast stones at the man yet if they had their life in the public like him they would probably be more like Jersey Shore then the D-bowe show.

Bike
10-28-2010, 02:21 AM
:bananen_smilies046: Bowe gets a lot of hate because he has a big mouth, that said he doesn't seem to be a bad team he just has a personality. Some people have called him a pre-Madonna ala Larry Johnson-less, but I think that's unfair Bowe doesn't beat on women and think he's a gangster.
Yep. Just growing pains I think. Some guys get through it faster and easier than others. I think he's past the D-Bowe show stage. He's getting it.

Hayvern
10-28-2010, 02:16 PM
Never read his facebook or twitter or any of that, but honestly he's a 26 year old rich athlete what's he supposed to act like? It's so weird how people view "Athletes" as role models yet when your around fans watching a football game they say the nastiest (and often funny) offensive things. I just find it a little hypocritical that people cast stones at the man yet if they had their life in the public like him they would probably be more like Jersey Shore then the D-bowe show.

Not everyone could live up to the standards set by the Former Chiefs Player That Shall Remain Nameless (Gonzo), but that is what I expect ALL Chief's team members to strive for.

Work Ethic, honesty, grace and decency, anything short of that is unacceptable!

Bowe has done somethings since he came here that has been counter to that. He seems to be getting it now though, so I hope he keeps it up!

Chiefster
10-28-2010, 04:08 PM
Not everyone could live up to the standards set by the Former Chiefs Player That Shall Remain Nameless (Gonzo), but that is what I expect ALL Chief's team members to strive for.

Work Ethic, honesty, grace and decency, anything short of that is unacceptable!

Bowe has done somethings since he came here that has been counter to that. He seems to be getting it now though, so I hope he keeps it up!

Yup, that can only be good for the Chiefs! :D

jdmc
10-28-2010, 05:16 PM
I would like to think Charles will have a year ending performance that could get him to the pro-bowl but splitting time with Jones and McCluster makes it highly unlikely. Bowe would have to have a great run. But on defense several have a great shot I think probable the most underrated player is Dorsey in the middle he is really clogging things up. Dorsey is doubled alot and playing great in a 3-4