Another for the Cassel haters......

[SIC J]

It was an ugly game, but when it came down to it, the Chiefs won the game BEHIND CASSEL'S ARM. End of story!!!

Now discuss about how he almost blew the game and blah blah blah and forget that he WON the game for the Chiefs.

Ready and GO!

[Sn@keIze]

i was hard on Cassell.

as a matter of fact i made a thread about it's time we move on.

but i am ready to eat crow.

But we didnt win becuze of his arm.

We win becuz he is a good decision maker.

he wont throw it unless he is sure or he will just take the sack.

he is a manager, and we can deal with that becuz we have a great run game and adequate D.

[matthewschiefs]

Cassel was not sharp today but in the end he did his job. There were many bigger mistakes made then any Cassel made today IMO.

[SIC J]

Cassel was not sharp today but in the end he did his job. There were many bigger mistakes made then any Cassel made today IMO.

Agreed!

And for the record, coming into this game, Cassel leads the league is the least amount of sacks with only 5. He was sacked 3 times today. 8 sacks in 7 games is pretty damn good.

[fairladyZ]

Cassel was not sharp today but in the end he did his job. There were many bigger mistakes made then any Cassel made today IMO.


Quoted for TRUTH!

Cassel stepped up at end of game.. Rest of game wasn't to impressive but wasn't to bad either..

Haley not kicking any of the 3 FG's in the first half is what almost cost us the game!

[GarH]

I'll just leave it at the Chiefs could be an amazing team with an above average QB.

[figcrostic]

I'll just leave it at the Chiefs could be an amazing team with an above average QB.

Agreed but for now we are stuck with Cassel.

[Drunker Hillbilly]

Walked them down the field.

[CastoffCassel]

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!? Cassel threw to wide open targets, and aimed for Charles or Moeaki the whole time. Something any decent QB in the NFL could have done. I can't believe you actually think that guy is a decent QB and he won it for us. No it was the receivers and the D that won it for us. I'm glad he decided to actually complete a couple passes in the end without throwing it way over there head or way behind him but your basically giving him credit for basic passes. That guy folds easier then a napkin when the pocket closes and there is a reason why we barely pass it... he can not be trusted.

[Hayvern]

Cassel did not win this game for us today, he did not cost us the game, but he hardly was the key factor in the win. This is how Haley wants it though, so who can argue?

Let me repeat one more time, and today was even a better indication that I am right. Cassel is NOT going to be the guy that can win the game for you. He is not that guy plainly put. Today it showed when we has unable to move the ball through the air.

He is an alright QB, but he is going to have to have the other guys have good games.

[Drunker Hillbilly]

Perfect game plan for a team with the best rushing game in the league that doesn't have Peyton Manning! Don't put a game plan in that will allow the QB to lose the game. Last week everyone was complaining that he didin't clutch up when needed. Today he did and people are still *****ing. Never amazes me.....

[CastoffCassel]

The last time I tried to believe in a QB post Trent Green was Croyle. He broke my heart many times and I tried to give him multiple chances since he has a hot wife but I haven given up on all the QB's we've had. We need a solid QB that is calm in the pocket and can just find short routes and play it smart rather then trying to be the hero every time.

[Ryfo18]

The last time I tried to believe in a QB post Trent Green was Croyle. He broke my heart many times and I tried to give him multiple chances since he has a hot wife but I haven given up on all the QB's we've had. We need a solid QB that is calm in the pocket and can just find short routes and play it smart rather then trying to be the hero every time.

Wow you just described Cassel :ninerssuck:

[figcrostic]

The last time I tried to believe in a QB post Trent Green was Croyle. He broke my heart many times and I tried to give him multiple chances since he has a hot wife but I haven given up on all the QB's we've had. We need a solid QB that is calm in the pocket and can just find short routes and play it smart rather then trying to be the hero every time.

:lol: What does that have to do with anything it's not like he's letting you sleep with her every time he lost

[SIC J]

Wow you just described Cassel :ninerssuck:

+1

Some people just have no clue. :lol:

[CastoffCassel]

Wow you just described Cassel :ninerssuck:

Umm... no, Cassel is not calm in the pocket and thats why he makes bad decisions when it closes on him. Do you even watch these games in its entirety or do you just catch the highlights on post game shows. The guy might as well have the excuse that he drinks a 12 pack before he goes out there before every game because then at least he would have a reason for why he throws it behind or over the receivers the majority of the time.

[CastoffCassel]

:lol: What does that have to do with anything it's not like he's letting you sleep with her every time he lost


Yes because I figured I would get to sleep with his wife, wtf? It's a joke, like saying well I figured he could play since he looks like a player in pads but really he's a chump.

[Ryfo18]

Umm... no, Cassel is not calm in the pocket and thats why he makes bad decisions when it closes on him. Do you even watch these games in its entirety or do you just catch the highlights on post game shows. The guy might as well have the excuse that he drinks a 12 pack before he goes out there before every game because then at least he would have a reason for why he throws it behind or over the receivers the majority of the time.

I have NFL Sunday Ticket...I watch every game in its entirety, then I watch the 30 minute quick replay on Monday of every game...I follow my Chiefs closely. Cassel misses throws, yes, but he's an AVERAGE NFL QB, and the best option we have right now. Matt is patient in the pocket...if he doesn't get his first read, he looks at his 2nd and 3rd. If nothing is there, he runs. Maybe you think that is why he is impatient.

Weren't you the one that said we need a guy like Kitna in there at QB?

[CastoffCassel]

I have NFL Sunday Ticket...I watch every game in its entirety, then I watch the 30 minute quick replay on Monday of every game...I follow my Chiefs closely. Cassel misses throws, yes, but he's an AVERAGE NFL QB, and the best option we have right now. Matt is patient in the pocket...if he doesn't get his first read, he looks at his 2nd and 3rd. If nothing is there, he runs. Maybe you think that is why he is impatient.

Weren't you the one that said we need a guy like Kitna in there at QB?


Yea and Kitna would kill it with our team. I believe Kitna would lead us to a Super Bowl any day before Cassel would. Yes Cassel can sit their in the pocket but he becomes unaware of whats going on around him and ends up in a sack or a retarded scramble. I can not believe for one second that if someone is a Chief fan and has played football in their time, they can sit here and say Cassel is good enough to get us anywhere. He has horrible accuracy, can only hit a wide open man and even if there is a great pass play, its usually the receiver making a ridiculous catch to adjust for Cassels mistake. I know he is our best option right now and I will continue to watch and hope for the victories but I will never believe Matt Cassel can get us anywhere. He is a over paid chump.

[SIC J]

Yea and Kitna would kill it with our team. I believe Kitna would lead us to a Super Bowl any day before Cassel would. Yes Cassel can sit their in the pocket but he becomes unaware of whats going on around him and ends up in a sack or a retarded scramble. I can not believe for one second that if someone is a Chief fan and has played football in their time, they can sit here and say Cassel is good enough to get us anywhere. He has horrible accuracy, can only hit a wide open man and even if there is a great pass play, its usually the receiver making a ridiculous catch to adjust for Cassels mistake. I know he is our best option right now and I will continue to watch and hope for the victories but I will never believe Matt Cassel can get us anywhere. He is a over paid chump.

Kitna? LOL. Yeah his 4 interceptions today was an awesome job. In 1 game he has more interceptions then Cassel does for the season. LOL

[Ryfo18]

Yea and Kitna would kill it with our team. I believe Kitna would lead us to a Super Bowl any day before Cassel would. Yes Cassel can sit their in the pocket but he becomes unaware of whats going on around him and ends up in a sack or a retarded scramble. I can not believe for one second that if someone is a Chief fan and has played football in their time, they can sit here and say Cassel is good enough to get us anywhere. He has horrible accuracy, can only hit a wide open man and even if there is a great pass play, its usually the receiver making a ridiculous catch to adjust for Cassels mistake. I know he is our best option right now and I will continue to watch and hope for the victories but I will never believe Matt Cassel can get us anywhere. He is a over paid chump.

I have played football, and do watch the Chiefs. Cassel is not the most accurate passer, but not making mistakes in the NFL is a lot to ask for. Over 100 pass attempts with out an INT. That's all I ask for out of my quarterback. Cassel is making great decisions. He doesn't look the prettiest out there. Would you rather have Kyle Orton (who's on pace to break Dan Marino's single season passing yard record) and his 2-6 record?

Your problem is you think the quarterback is the end all win all. The fact of the matter is we have one of the best rushing attacks in recent years...We don't need the Cassel to throw for 300+ a game. He does what he needs to when his number is called (see today, set us up for 2 game winning FG's).

[Ryfo18]

And once again, CastOffCassel...You're the guy that said Kitna would take us to a Super Bowl (with his career 154-151 TD/INT ratio)...I seriously question your evaluation of talent.

[CastoffCassel]

I have played football, and do watch the Chiefs. Cassel is not the most accurate passer, but not making mistakes in the NFL is a lot to ask for. Over 100 pass attempts with out an INT. That's all I ask for out of my quarterback. Cassel is making great decisions. He doesn't look the prettiest out there. Would you rather have Kyle Orton (who's on pace to break Dan Marino's single season passing yard record) and his 2-6 record?

Your problem is you think the quarterback is the end all win all. The fact of the matter is we have one of the best rushing attacks in recent years...We don't need the Cassel to throw for 300+ a game. He does what he needs to when his number is called (see today, set us up for 2 game winning FG's).


I'm not going to keep going on with this but heres the thing...

1.) I don't want to see a QB throwing for 300+ yards. I just want to see a QB out there that can lead the team and not have to worry that he is going to screw up a drive with his poor passing.

2.) I already said we have an awesome running game.

3.) I chose Jon Kitna randomly, so don't get so bent out of shape on him. There are a lot of other QB's in the league that are back ups that I believe could be better then our over paid starter.

4.) When was the last time a team that only rushed won a super bowl?

[iratefan]

lmao this whole concept of cassel winning us the game is a serious laugher. Fellow fans, if we think we're going to make it very far with a QB that has to wait until the last 90 seconds in OT to come alive, we're in serious trouble. We cant have a solid running game against good teams if we cant keep them guessing with solid pass plays. Cassel went just a hair above 50% in completions today, and when he throws 'off', man, theyre really off, and there were 2 close call interceptions. He seems to decide his chosen route before the snap, and absolutely panics under usual game pressure, and looks like one of the slowest scrambling backs in the game (seriously he makes brett favre look pretty good at this stuff). Cassel is not a QB that is going to help this team compete, and make no mistake we cant win against good teams with no passing game.

[Drunker Hillbilly]

I'm not going to keep going on with this but heres the thing...

1.) I don't want to see a QB throwing for 300+ yards. I just want to see a QB out there that can lead the team and not have to worry that he is going to screw up a drive with his poor passing.

2.) I already said we have an awesome running game.

3.) I chose Jon Kitna randomly, so don't get so bent out of shape on him. There are a lot of other QB's in the league that are back ups that I believe could be better then our over paid starter.

4.) When was the last time a team that only rushed won a super bowl?
Last time I checked Cassel had over 1000yds passing so I guess your right, it won't happen this year either.......

[Drunker Hillbilly]

lmao this whole concept of cassel winning us the game is a serious laugher. Fellow fans, if we think we're going to make it very far with a QB that has to wait until the last 90 seconds in OT to come alive, we're in serious trouble. We cant have a solid running game against good teams if we cant keep them guessing with solid pass plays. Cassel went just a hair above 50% in completions today, and when he throws 'off', man, theyre really off, and there were 2 close call interceptions. He seems to decide his chosen route before the snap, and absolutely panics under usual game pressure, and looks like one of the slowest scrambling backs in the game (seriously he makes brett favre look pretty good at this stuff). Cassel is not a QB that is going to help this team compete, and make no mistake we cant win against good teams with no passing game.
Not compete? Uhhh, have you seen our record?

[Ryfo18]

I'm not going to keep going on with this but heres the thing...

1.) I don't want to see a QB throwing for 300+ yards. I just want to see a QB out there that can lead the team and not have to worry that he is going to screw up a drive with his poor passing.

2.) I already said we have an awesome running game.

3.) I chose Jon Kitna randomly, so don't get so bent out of shape on him. There are a lot of other QB's in the league that are back ups that I believe could be better then our over paid starter.

4.) When was the last time a team that only rushed won a super bowl?

Good call...Got any suggestions to who we grab? There's about 3 QB's in the league who can do that right now. You're asking for a sick running game and a Peyton Manning/Drew Brees/Philip Rivers...Sorry that the Chiefs don't have that. But thanks for stating the obvious that it would be nice if we had one of the best quarterbacks in the league.

Fact: Cassel is the best of the rest (not including ones I named above, and probably Big Ben in that group too).

[figcrostic]

lmao this whole concept of cassel winning us the game is a serious laugher. Fellow fans, if we think we're going to make it very far with a QB that has to wait until the last 90 seconds in OT to come alive, we're in serious trouble. We cant have a solid running game against good teams if we cant keep them guessing with solid pass plays. Cassel went just a hair above 50% in completions today, and when he throws 'off', man, theyre really off, and there were 2 close call interceptions. He seems to decide his chosen route before the snap, and absolutely panics under usual game pressure, and looks like one of the slowest scrambling backs in the game (seriously he makes brett favre look pretty good at this stuff). Cassel is not a QB that is going to help this team compete, and make no mistake we cant win against good teams with no passing game.

Cassel is not an elite QB, but his line also sucks, he has one good wr and we are a running team. If Cassel's salary goes down to 6 million and we beef our line up and pick up a speedy wr with good hands then I'm fine with Cassel.

[whatwasthat?]

Umm... no, Cassel is not calm in the pocket and thats why he makes bad decisions when it closes on him. Do you even watch these games in its entirety or do you just catch the highlights on post game shows. The guy might as well have the excuse that he drinks a 12 pack before he goes out there before every game because then at least he would have a reason for why he throws it behind or over the receivers the majority of the time.


no you pretty much summed up cassel with that other comment

[Coach]

Amazing how many Cassell haters come to this board after each of his victories.
:thumbdown:

Matt Cassell has the 11th best pass rating in the NFL right now.
NFL Stats: by Player Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2010&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&d-447263-n=1)
He didn't have a great game today, but neither will about 25 other QB's. Not every team can have a Manning, Brady, or Brees on their team.

Do you really think other teams aren't complaining about their QB's as well. The stats say we have the 11th best QB right now. Considering this is a running team, not a passing team, I don't think that's so bad.

I am done now so you can go back to your whining and crying about Matt Cassell. Sorry to interupt.
:ninerssuck:

[Three7s]

Amazing how many Cassell haters come to this board after each of his victories.
:thumbdown:

Matt Cassell has the 11th best pass rating in the NFL right now.
NFL Stats: by Player Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2010&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&d-447263-n=1)
He didn't have a great game today, but neither will about 25 other QB's. Not every team can have a Manning, Brady, or Brees on their team.

Do you really think other teams aren't complaining about their QB's as well. The stats say we have the 11th best QB right now. Considering this is a running team, not a passing team, I don't think that's so bad.

I am done now so you can go back to your whining and crying about Matt Cassell. Sorry to interupt.
:ninerssuck:
I'd call them trolls, but in any case, the fact that they just joined proves that they're here to bash Cassel and are praying he fails.

[CastoffCassel]

I'd call them trolls, but in any case, the fact that they just joined proves that they're here to bash Cassel and are praying he fails.

Not really. I joined this to talk about the Chiefs success and see what others think could be improved to make the team better. Sure I do not believe in Matt Cassel and thats why I have that name but I am still willing to see if anyone has any real opposing view points on the matter.

[chief31]

Cassel did not win this game for us today, he did not cost us the game, but he hardly was the key factor in the win. This is how Haley wants it though, so who can argue?

Let me repeat one more time, and today was even a better indication that I am right. Cassel is NOT going to be the guy that can win the game for you. He is not that guy plainly put. Today it showed when we has unable to move the ball through the air.

He is an alright QB, but he is going to have to have the other guys have good games.

Cassel won the game today.

Make all the excuses you want, he led us down the field for the game-winner.


The last time I tried to believe in a QB post Trent Green was Croyle. He broke my heart many times and I tried to give him multiple chances since he has a hot wife but I haven given up on all the QB's we've had. We need a solid QB that is calm in the pocket and can just find short routes and play it smart rather then trying to be the hero every time.

So, you're saying we need a Matt Cassel, just not the Matt Cassel?




Yea and Kitna would kill it with our team. I believe Kitna would lead us to a Super Bowl any day before Cassel would. Yes Cassel can sit their in the pocket but he becomes unaware of whats going on around him and ends up in a sack or a retarded scramble.

So....
Cassel is getting himself sacked too much? How many is good?


I can not believe for one second that if someone is a Chief fan and has played football in their time, they can sit here and say Cassel is good enough to get us anywhere. He has horrible accuracy, can only hit a wide open man

Really?

All I have heard is that he is being bailed out with amazing catches. And all I have seen is some very impressive QB play.


and even if there is a great pass play, its usually the receiver making a ridiculous catch to adjust for Cassels mistake.

Ah. There it is.

So, he can only hit the wide open guy, but.... he is hitting guys who are not wide open?

Now I get it .:D


I know he is our best option right now and I will continue to watch and hope for the victories but I will never believe Matt Cassel can get us anywhere. He is a over paid chump.

10 TDs ... 3 INTs.

I think he deserves a raise.


I just want to see a QB out there that can lead the team and not have to worry that he is going to screw up a drive with his poor passing.

Sorry. Jesus Christ isn't available.




Cassel is not an elite QB, but his line also sucks, he has one good wr and we are a running team. If Cassel's salary goes down to 6 million and we beef our line up and pick up a speedy wr with good hands then I'm fine with Cassel.

I'd like to see his pay doubled if he continues to produce as he has been.

[matthewschiefs]

Not really. I joined this to talk about the Chiefs success and see what others think could be improved to make the team better. Sure I do not believe in Matt Cassel and thats why I have that name but I am still willing to see if anyone has any real opposing view points on the matter.

I do have an opposing view point

To me Matt Cassel is doing what he is being asked to do. He is not the one that the Chiefs are asking to go out there and win the games for us. He is being asked to manage the game and most important not turn the football over. Both for the most part he has done. And While he has made many mistakes this year who on this team hasn't? Add to that there have been times this season when Cassel has done his job only to see the ball go throught the WRs hands and hit the ground. Like Bowe today. If Bowe catches that football like he should have Cassel would have thrown 2 td pass and 0 ints. Most teams would take that out of there starter any week.

Football is a team game. One person is not what's holding this offense back. Is Cassel a part of what is maybe. But I think he is a small part. It all comes down to this. Who being realistic is out there that the Chiefs could bring in to do a better job. Do you really want to start over with a rookie? I don't. I see no reason why we should give up on Cassel right now. Just my view on him.

[chief31]

Oh yeah...

Welcome aboard, Castoff.

:D

[chief31]

Not really. I joined this to talk about the Chiefs success and see what others think could be improved to make the team better. Sure I do not believe in Matt Cassel and thats why I have that name but I am still willing to see if anyone has any real opposing view points on the matter.

I respect your opinion. But I think maybe you are having a hard time relieving yourself of a bias against Cassel.

As we are 5-2, and Cassel has been extremely efficient, one would automatically think that the positives would far outweigh the negatives.

But, for some, that doesn't seem to be the case.

I am not highly confident in Cassel. But, with each good performance, he chips away at my doubts.

Today was a down game for him. And he still drove us right down the field for the game-winner and didn't throw a single INT.

All of this with a team that doesn't pass the ball. A team that is averaging almost 200 YPG on the ground.

Rather you think you see something that isn't right, or not, you really should be able to see that, whatever he is doing, it is working.

And if his numbers continue as they have been for the past several weeks, then you are eventually going to have to recognize that he is a great QB.

22-23 TDs with 7 INTs (as his current numbers project for a full season) is extremely impressive.

[figcrostic]

Cassel won the game today.

Make all the excuses you want, he led us down the field for the game-winner.



So, you're saying we need a Matt Cassel, just not the Matt Cassel?





So....
Cassel is getting himself sacked too much? How many is good?



Really?

All I have heard is that he is being bailed out with amazing catches. And all I have seen is some very impressive QB play.



Ah. There it is.

So, he can only hit the wide open guy, but.... he is hitting guys who are not wide open?

Now I get it .:D



10 TDs ... 3 INTs.

I think he deserves a raise.



Sorry. Jesus Christ isn't available.





I'd like to see his pay doubled if he continues to produce as he has been.

You had a decent point until you got to here. I know you like to come in and snipe at people and try to make yourself feel superior for whatever reason. You picked my quote for some reason, not sure exactly I think what I said was fairly truthful and pretty fair towards Matt, but whatever the case you picked my quote and instead of writing something intelligent or thought provoking or really interesting in any way you put you think Matt's pay should be doubled. As of right now Matt's base salary with no bonuses is nearly 12 million. Making him a very high paid qb. In fact he will make almost double Drew Brees this year. Granted Drew is having a bad year for Drew brees 14 td's and 10 int over 2000 yards and only a 69.7 completion rate and he lost his two starting rb's. Compared to Matt's 10 td's 3 int and 1200 yards and only a 58.7 competion rate. Not only to mention the fact that Drew Brees is coming off a superbowl win last year in which he was the MVP. Basically what I put is that Matt is an average qb that is basically a game manager and isn't getting much help from his line, play calling, and wr's. Many columnist agree with me on this. Now to say that he should have his salary doubled for being a game manager which would put him in the 25 million per year salary range which would make him the highest paid nfl player by far. Now my question is were you trying to be funny or do you actually believe that he should become the highest paid NFL player?

[stricken721]

You had a decent point until you got to here. I know you like to come in and snipe at people and try to make yourself feel superior for whatever reason. You picked my quote for some reason, not sure exactly I think what I said was fairly truthful and pretty fair towards Matt, but whatever the case you picked my quote and instead of writing something intelligent or thought provoking or really interesting in any way you put you think Matt's pay should be doubled. As of right now Matt's base salary with no bonuses is nearly 12 million. Making him a very high paid qb. In fact he will make almost double Drew Brees this year. Granted Drew is having a bad year for Drew brees 14 td's and 10 int over 2000 yards and only a 69.7 completion rate and he lost his two starting rb's. Compared to Matt's 10 td's 3 int and 1200 yards and only a 58.7 competion rate. Not only to mention the fact that Drew Brees is coming off a superbowl win last year in which he was the MVP. Basically what I put is that Matt is an average qb that is basically a game manager and isn't getting much help from his line, play calling, and wr's. Many columnist agree with me on this. Now to say that he should have his salary doubled for being a game manager which would put him in the 25 million per year salary range which would make him the highest paid nfl player by far. Now my question is were you trying to be funny or do you actually believe that he should become the highest paid NFL player?

Do they agree with you or do you agree with them? Just curious.

[whatwasthat?]

i think you are all too sensitive

cassel had an off day, but managed to play well in that final drive and lead this team to a victory...now i do not think he won this game for us (the defense did that) but he sure did his part

[stricken721]

In addition to the thread, I agree with almost everything chief31 said.

He's earning his paycheck, maybe he does deserve a raise?

He hasn't played great, but he's done the job of a Quarterback. I guess we get rid of the guys who don't do their job correctly? I'm not a business major but I think you keep the guys who make your product good.

I've been critical of him at times, but the Win-Loss column does not lie.

[Ryfo18]

Why should we as fans give a crap about how much he's paid? For one it's an uncapped year, so no effect there. Secondly, the Chiefs have been well under the cap the last few years.

Player salaries I could care less about: 5-2, now that's something to talk about.

[N TX Dave]

Why should we as fans give a crap about how much he's paid? For one it's an uncapped year, so no effect there. Secondly, the Chiefs have been well under the cap the last few years.

Player salaries I could care less about: 5-2, now that's something to talk about.

I agree with you it does not matter what he makes as long as we are not jettesing players because of what we are paing him and we are not as we are still unde the cap and he has lead us to a 5-2 record which is more games than we won in the last 3 years in 16 games.

[CapitalT]

It was an ugly game, but when it came down to it, the Chiefs won the game BEHIND CASSEL'S ARM. End of story!!!

Now discuss about how he almost blew the game and blah blah blah and forget that he WON the game for the Chiefs.

Ready and GO!

Our defense played great! Our running game was amazing! We won!

Cassel didn't have a bad game but I'm stunned that this game would be held up as an example of why we should all fall in love with Cassel. Cassel still needs to improve ... a lot.

I supported Cassel last year. However, this year he has more protection ... he has a good running game. Like everyone else here, I want us to win a Superbowl! Unless Cassel improves, he's not the guy that will take us there.

[pbatrucker]

Am I satisfied with Cassel's play? No. On the other hand I understand that he is a young (in playing time) QB and is improving. IMO he is one good WR away from being a lot better.
Another point, Cassel is very good at moving the team in the two minute drill or hurry up offense. Like a number of people on this site I hope he grows to be a solid QB for years to come for us. You have to love to love his attitude and work ethic.

[figcrostic]

In addition to the thread, I agree with almost everything chief31 said.

He's earning his paycheck, maybe he does deserve a raise?

He hasn't played great, but he's done the job of a Quarterback. I guess we get rid of the guys who don't do their job correctly? I'm not a business major but I think you keep the guys who make your product good.

I've been critical of him at times, but the Win-Loss column does not lie.
How is he earning his paycheck? He is among the top earning qb's and is
doing nothing spectacular? If our running game wasn't so dominant, and all we did was rely on his arm I'm not sure we would have won a game. Everyone brags on how Cassel has only thrown 3 interceptions like he's some kind of god. The reason his pay comes into play is we could have gotten a better qb for the price. Peyton Manning has only thrown 2 int and has thrown for almost twice the amount of yards. Now I know theres no way we could have gotten Peyton. But lets look at a rookie, like Josh Freeman he has thrown more yards, has a higher completion rate, still only has 3 interceptions, and he plays on a horrible team and its his first year in the league. I got another guy he doesn't play anymore but in 2006 he started 8 games only one more then Matt has started right now in those 8 games he threw for 700 more yards then Matt, completed 2% more of his passes, only had one interception to 11 td's, and he was a career backup. Any guesses? I'll give it to you Damon Huard. Now I liked Damon but if he was making almost as much as peyton manning people would have been shocked. Yet in my opinon Matt is not as good as Huard and gets paid like Peyton. Huard was a master game manager maybe one day cassel will be on that level but game managers should not get paid like game MVP's. Guys that go out there and throw the ball 50 times in a game for 4+ td's and win the game for the team. Nothing wrong with subway but if they tried to charge me 50 bucks for a cold cut I'm gonna laugh because for that price I can get a big juicy filet.

[nigeriannightmare]

How is he earning his paycheck? He is among the top earning qb's and is
doing nothing spectacular? If our running game wasn't so dominant, and all we did was rely on his arm I'm not sure we would have won a game. Everyone brags on how Cassel has only thrown 3 interceptions like he's some kind of god. The reason his pay comes into play is we could have gotten a better qb for the price. Peyton Manning has only thrown 2 int and has thrown for almost twice the amount of yards. Now I know theres no way we could have gotten Peyton. But lets look at a rookie, like Josh Freeman he has thrown more yards, has a higher completion rate, still only has 3 interceptions, and he plays on a horrible team and its his first year in the league. I got another guy he doesn't play anymore but in 2006 he started 8 games only one more then Matt has started right now in those 8 games he threw for 700 more yards then Matt, completed 2% more of his passes, only had one interception to 11 td's, and he was a career backup. Any guesses? I'll give it to you Damon Huard. Now I liked Damon but if he was making almost as much as peyton manning people would have been shocked. Yet in my opinon Matt is not as good as Huard and gets paid like Peyton. Huard was a master game manager maybe one day cassel will be on that level but game managers should not get paid like game MVP's. Guys that go out there and throw the ball 50 times in a game for 4+ td's and win the game for the team. Nothing wrong with subway but if they tried to charge me 50 bucks for a cold cut I'm gonna laugh because for that price I can get a big juicy filet.


ummm nothing spectacular even Mushmouth we said we are the treat of the season and he hates us, or used to. we were picked to finish dead last in the AFC West by almost everybody. The West is ours to lose that's pretty spectacular considering we won a total of 6 games the last 2 years or 10 the last 3. Considering that we can achieve a probable 10 win season this year that looks pretty spectacular to me.

The qb wins and gets chastised I would hate to hear it when he loses.

Considering this game never should have gone to OT, we moved the ball regardless of how accurate he is or isn't. The man is tough stands tall in the pocket and IMO,is getting better every week.

Peyton is peyton and Josh Freeman was a first round draft choice that hasn't met expectations until this year and the NFC sucks so its hard to say that he is awesome.

[stricken721]

How is he earning his paycheck? He is among the top earning qb's and is
doing nothing spectacular? If our running game wasn't so dominant, and all we did was rely on his arm I'm not sure we would have won a game. Everyone brags on how Cassel has only thrown 3 interceptions like he's some kind of god. The reason his pay comes into play is we could have gotten a better qb for the price. Peyton Manning has only thrown 2 int and has thrown for almost twice the amount of yards. Now I know theres no way we could have gotten Peyton. But lets look at a rookie, like Josh Freeman he has thrown more yards, has a higher completion rate, still only has 3 interceptions, and he plays on a horrible team and its his first year in the league. I got another guy he doesn't play anymore but in 2006 he started 8 games only one more then Matt has started right now in those 8 games he threw for 700 more yards then Matt, completed 2% more of his passes, only had one interception to 11 td's, and he was a career backup. Any guesses? I'll give it to you Damon Huard. Now I liked Damon but if he was making almost as much as peyton manning people would have been shocked. Yet in my opinon Matt is not as good as Huard and gets paid like Peyton. Huard was a master game manager maybe one day cassel will be on that level but game managers should not get paid like game MVP's. Guys that go out there and throw the ball 50 times in a game for 4+ td's and win the game for the team. Nothing wrong with subway but if they tried to charge me 50 bucks for a cold cut I'm gonna laugh because for that price I can get a big juicy filet.

I'll just say two things.. He's earning his paycheck when you look at our win-loss column, and he's not directly losing us games

Also, this is Josh Freeman's second year in the league. Nice try.

[figcrostic]

ummm nothing spectacular even Mushmouth we said we are the treat of the season and he hates us, or used to. we were picked to finish dead last in the AFC West by almost everybody. The West is ours to lose that's pretty spectacular considering we won a total of 6 games the last 2 years or 10 the last 3. Considering that we can achieve a probable 10 win season this year that looks pretty spectacular to me.

1) The qb wins and gets chastised I would hate to hear it when he loses.

2) Considering this game never should have gone to OT, we moved the ball regardless of how accurate he is or isn't. The man is tough stands tall in the pocket and IMO,is getting better every week.

3) Peyton is peyton and Josh Freeman was a first round draft choice that hasn't met expectations until this year and the NFC sucks so its hard to say that he is awesome.

1) Cassel did not win the game for us, if you wanna give someone credit give credit to our line for opening holes and our rb duo. Cassel made a couple good play and couple bad plays, but I'm not chastising him. There is a middle ground between good and bad and that's where matt falls. He is averaging 25 attempts per game, that's hardly anything, but that's a smart coaching decision considering the type of qb matt is. Matt is good at being told what to do, he doesn't come out read the defense and make great throws, in fact sometimes he sticks with wr's even when they are not open which is annoying but I think he can get passed that.

2) Your right if Matt would have thrown more TD's we wouldn't have went to OT. Is it all his fault? Absolutely not, but you act as if moving the ball was all because of him Mat only threw for 155 yards just Jamaal Charles by himself ran for 177 yards. Our running game won us the game. Your right Matt is a tough guy no doubt and I'm not dogging the man, but this is a sports it's not personal you assess someones talent level.

3) Peyton is Peyton? what the hell does that even mean. Is he some how exempt from any kind of comparison. Matt Cassel makes 12m a year peyton makes 15 and yet you won't even compare the two when they make nearly the same salary. Josh Freeman has two years in the league and only started half a season and he is a better qb then Cassel. Your right he was drafted in the first round number 17 overall which makes him very cheap around 1.5 million a year in salary. I'm not dogging on Matt, and I think he can be good as system qb that throws the ball half what good qb does, but a player like that is not worth 12 million a year. When Matt starts throwing the ball 40 plus times a game and has 4k years with 30 td's then he's worth the money.

[figcrostic]

I'll just say two things.. He's earning his paycheck when you look at our win-loss column, and he's not directly losing us games

Also, this is Josh Freeman's second year in the league. Nice try.

Sorry I was doing Cassel math you know how he's been in the league 6 years but everyone is like he's so young when he's 28 and this is only his 3rd year my bad. The win loss column how many of those games would he have won if we had LJ starting instead of JC?

[Chief Tyler]

Fig, apparently we're not allowed to want or expect an elite QB but we're on track to be a consistent playoff threat/SB contender all the same(although the one thing that the dominant teams have in common is an elite QB). We're going to be the exception though.

END OF STORY!!!!1ONE!

[nigeriannightmare]

Peyton is a rare qb just like montana, or elway or brady not easy to find so to compare any qb in the league to peyton is unfair.

In fact Matt was franchised by the Patriots for a year contract worth 14 million dollars so they thought he must have sucked too. because the patriots are notorious for over paying for football players.

Matt Cassel is here for this season and next deal with it.

[Chief Tyler]

I also vote to double the pay of a quarterback who throws for 152 yards in five quarters (a huge chunk of it coming out of the backfield, inflating that number) and manages a rating of 84.1. Because performance is based on numbers regardless of what the on-field product looks like. Amirite?

[kckidd8870]

Everyone get off Cassels back.Know he isn't a Tom Brady or a Peyton Manning.The little thing's he is doing to keep his team in the game.Getting everyone line up were they are supposed to be.He is always redirecting are wideouts,that don't no were they are supposed to be lined up half the time.He isn't throwing interceptions.Even though he got lucky against the Bill's a few time.Can you say Trent Dilfer guys.Remember this poor Quarter back,that made it to the Super bowl with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Won a super Bowl with the Ravens.Yes Tampa and Ravens had killers D-Fenses.Are D-fense isn't killer but it's pretty good and we have an awesome running attack.Though I'm not a huge Cassel fan.He isn't loosing the game for us.Yes he needs to improve but it's hard to have huge stats in the passing game when you have 250 yards rushing per game.Come on guys ,give Cassel a break.Let's concetrate are energy and support on the Raiders.It's is officailly Raiders week..Go Chiefs and Go Cassel.Keep up the good work and lets bring home a big win Chiefs.

[nigeriannightmare]

Fig, apparently we're not allowed to want or expect an elite QB but we're on track to be a consistent playoff threat/SB contender all the same(although the one thing that the dominant teams have in common is an elite QB). We're going to be the exception though.

END OF STORY!!!!1ONE!

Come on man are you really serious. Outside matt cassel what qb, that was "elite" was out there. Give me one qb that we could have picked up that was out there one. And you said elite and to me there are four elite qb's in the league. which one would have come to kc.

[figcrostic]

Fig, apparently we're not allowed to want or expect an elite QB but we're on track to be a consistent playoff threat/SB contender all the same(although the one thing that the dominant teams have in common is an elite QB). We're going to be the exception though.

END OF STORY!!!!1ONE!

On this forum that is a correct statement. Being a K-state fan how would you have liked the Chiefs to have picked up Josh Freeman?

[Chief Tyler]

Peyton is a rare qb just like montana, or elway or brady not easy to find so to compare any qb in the league to peyton is unfair.

In fact Matt was franchised by the Patriots for a year contract worth 14 million dollars so they thought he must have sucked too. because the patriots are notorious for over paying for football players.

Matt Cassel is here for this season and next deal with it.

or Big Ben, or Matt Schaub, or Phillip Rivers, or Drew Brees, or Brett Farve (not so much this year), or Aaron Rogers, or Tony Romo, or potentially Matt Stafford, or potentially Josh Freeman.

Most of us that supposedly hate Cassel don't feel that we need a Peyton, we just feel that we need a QB that doesn't make our offense one dimensional. We want a QB that can take advantage of the weapons around him, not rely on them to make him look better than he is (i.e Rivers yesterday)

[Chief Tyler]

On this forum that is a correct statement. Being a K-state fan how would you have liked the Chiefs to have picked up Josh Freeman?

Would have loved to have gotten him, no chance last year since we were stuck at 3. But he looks like the real deal this year.

[figcrostic]

Come on man are you really serious. Outside matt cassel what qb, that was "elite" was out there. Give me one qb that we could have picked up that was out there one. And you said elite and to me there are four elite qb's in the league. which one would have come to kc.

Just off the top of my head I know Mcnabb was available . I personally would have liked to see us draft a qb. I think we will in the 2011 draft.

[figcrostic]

Would have loved to have gotten him, no chance last year since we were stuck at 3. But he looks like the real deal this year.

I personally would have liked us to pick up Colt Mccoy and let him ride the bench under Cassel for this season and see if we could develop him. Even if Cassel is our QBOTF like many of you say he needs a decent back up and Brodie gets hurt too easy.

[Ryfo18]

Cassel has Freeman in every statistical category (except yards, but that's all that matters here I guess). He's making tremendous strides, especially looking at least year compared to this year. As long as that continues, he does have a chance to be one of the NFL's elite QBs. Give the guy a chance to develop. Charlie Weis is one of the best when it comes to developing quarterbacks.

As it stands now, Cassel has no reason throw the ball 40+ times a game and rack up 300 yards. Everyone wants this high powered passing attack when the fact of the matter is no team has been able to stop the rushing attack.

Cassel's only 28...Look at a guy like Rich Gannon. He didn't get his career going until he was 34! Give Cassel 2-3 years before you start saying he's not the solution. He has a tremendous work ethic, and it's showing. I can't wait to see what this guy brings to the table in the years to come. People think I'm crazy, but he's very similar to Brady when Brady initially came into the league. And the important thing is, he's not losing the team games by turning the ball over.

[Ryfo18]

I personally would have liked us to pick up Colt Mccoy and let him ride the bench under Cassel for this season and see if we could develop him. Even if Cassel is our QBOTF like many of you say he needs a decent back up and Brodie gets hurt too easy.

Which guy did you want him over? McCluster, Arenas, or Asamoah?

[figcrostic]

Cassel has Freeman in every statistical category (except yards, but that's all that matters here I guess). He's making tremendous strides, especially looking at least year compared to this year. As long as that continues, he does have a chance to be one of the NFL's elite QBs. Give the guy a chance to develop. Charlie Weis is one of the best when it comes to developing quarterbacks.

As it stands now, Cassel has no reason throw the ball 40+ times a game and rack up 300 yards. Everyone wants this high powered passing attack when the fact of the matter is no team has been able to stop the rushing attack.

Cassel's only 28...Look at a guy like Rich Gannon. He didn't get his career going until he was 34! Give Cassel 2-3 years before you start saying he's not the solution. He has a tremendous work ethic, and it's showing. I can't wait to see what this guy brings to the table in the years to come. People think I'm crazy, but he's very similar to Brady when Brady initially came into the league. And the important thing is, he's not losing the team games by turning the ball over.

Freeman plays on a worse team then the Chiefs,he's six years younger then Matt, and he gets paid 1/10th of what Matt gets paid number one. Number two I'm fine with Cassel, if he's getting 1/3rd his salary and we use the other 2/3rds on a LT and pick up another WR that is a stud.

[figcrostic]

Which guy did you want him over? McCluster, Arenas, or Asamoah?

Asamoah since he has only started one game at guard and since Colt was drafted in the 3rd round Mccluster and Arenas would be safe. But you don't want me to get into the draft. I would have took Okung over berry, Nate allen over Arenas preferably but I would have took Nate Allen over Mccluster as well and I like Mccluster but Nate Allen is that good, etc.

[Ryfo18]

Freeman plays on a worse team then the Chiefs,he's six years younger then Matt, and he gets paid 1/10th of what Matt gets paid number one. Number two I'm fine with Cassel, if he's getting 1/3rd his salary and we use the other 2/3rds on a LT and pick up another WR that is a stud.

Why do you care so much about money spent? The Chiefs have the lowest payroll in the league this year at $83M. It's not money that is preventing us from getting a stud WR and LT. It's lack of availability. The Chiefs went after Boldin, meaning they had money to spend on a FA WR. He didn't want to play here.

I just find it very hilarious that you care what he makes. It's pretty much a non-issue. You can always go be a Bucs fan if Cassel's salary bothers you that much. Then you don't have the same beef with how much the quarterback is paid. THE MONEY IS NOT AN ISSUE!

[Ryfo18]

Freeman plays on a worse team then the Chiefs,he's six years younger then Matt, and he gets paid 1/10th of what Matt gets paid number one. Number two I'm fine with Cassel, if he's getting 1/3rd his salary and we use the other 2/3rds on a LT and pick up another WR that is a stud.

By the way, Albert still has only given up 1 sack through 7 games...Just sayin.

[figcrostic]

Why do you care so much about money spent? The Chiefs have the lowest payroll in the league this year at $83M. It's not money that is preventing us from getting a stud WR and LT. It's lack of availability. The Chiefs went after Boldin, meaning they had money to spend on a FA WR. He didn't want to play here.

I just find it very hilarious that you care what he makes. It's pretty much a non-issue. You can always go be a Bucs fan if Cassel's salary bothers you that much. Then you don't have the same beef with how much the quarterback is paid. THE MONEY IS NOT AN ISSUE!

I don't believe the money is not the issue Boldin is only making like 3 million a year I'm sure if we ponied up instead being cheap he would have signed.

[figcrostic]

By the way, Albert still has only given up 1 sack through 7 games...Just sayin.

Because of our running game, and the face that Matt gets rid of the ball in 2 seconds because he gets pressured so much, and has to throw into the dirt. Albert's gets beat up when we play good pass rushers look at what freeney did to him Albert had a lousy game against Indy - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/10/13/1750369/albert-had-a-lousy-game-against-indy) . Also Waters has been looking like crap lately and Albert's would make a great replacement, now you throw Okung or Trent Williams in there and you got a seriously strong left side. Then Matt has more time to throw the ball making our run game less predictable and even more dominant and making 3rd down more manageable.

[Ryfo18]

Because of our running game, and the face that Matt gets rid of the ball in 2 seconds because he gets pressured so much, and has to throw into the dirt. Albert's gets beat up when we play good pass rushers look at what freeney did to him Albert had a lousy game against Indy - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/10/13/1750369/albert-had-a-lousy-game-against-indy) . Also Waters has been looking like crap lately and Albert's would make a great replacement, now you throw Okung or Trent Williams in there and you got a seriously strong left side. Then Matt has more time to throw the ball making our run game less predictable and even more dominant and making 3rd down more manageable.

I watched that highlight link you sent...Fact of the matter is in just about everyone of those cases, he did his job by getting in the way and the ball comes out quick.

How many sacks did all-pro defensive end Dwight Freeny have on Cassel that game again?

[Ryfo18]

Because of our running game, and the face that Matt gets rid of the ball in 2 seconds because he gets pressured so much, and has to throw into the dirt. Albert's gets beat up when we play good pass rushers look at what freeney did to him Albert had a lousy game against Indy - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/10/13/1750369/albert-had-a-lousy-game-against-indy) . Also Waters has been looking like crap lately and Albert's would make a great replacement, now you throw Okung or Trent Williams in there and you got a seriously strong left side. Then Matt has more time to throw the ball making our run game less predictable and even more dominant and making 3rd down more manageable.

Good point, the success of our running game probably has no relation to Albert's blocking skills whatsoever.

[pbatrucker]

Because of our running game, and the face that Matt gets rid of the ball in 2 seconds because he gets pressured so much, and has to throw into the dirt. Albert's gets beat up when we play good pass rushers look at what freeney did to him Albert had a lousy game against Indy - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/10/13/1750369/albert-had-a-lousy-game-against-indy) . Also Waters has been looking like crap lately and Albert's would make a great replacement, now you throw Okung or Trent Williams in there and you got a seriously strong left side. Then Matt has more time to throw the ball making our run game less predictable and even more dominant and making 3rd down more manageable.

How long before the games are you starting to drink? I believe your vision is a little blurred.

[figcrostic]

I watched that highlight link you sent...Fact of the matter is in just about everyone of those cases, he did his job by getting in the way and the ball comes out quick.

How many sacks did all-pro defensive end Dwight Freeny have on Cassel that game again?

None by freeney but he was sacked, and how many times wat Matt rushed/ hit/ knocked down? Why was Matt's completion rate so low in that game? also why did he only average 5.4 ypc in that game? Maybe because he had to get rid of the ball as soon as it was snapped.

[Ryfo18]

I watched that highlight link you sent...Fact of the matter is in just about everyone of those cases, he did his job by getting in the way and the ball comes out quick.

How many sacks did all-pro defensive end Dwight Freeny have on Cassel that game again?


OOOH I have one more question! How many did former first overall pick and 2x pro bowler Mario Williams have on him the next week?

[pbatrucker]

None by freeney but he was sacked, and how many times wat Matt rushed/ hit/ knocked down? Why was Matt's completion rate so low in that game? also why did he only average 5.4 ypc in that game? Maybe because he had to get rid of the ball as soon as it was snapped.
Let's not forget that the Colt's have two very quick and fast DE that give every team in the league fits. You can't blame everything on Alpert, he is playing at a pro bowl level.

[Ryfo18]

None by freeney but he was sacked, and how many times wat Matt rushed/ hit/ knocked down? Why was Matt's completion rate so low in that game? also why did he only average 5.4 ypc in that game? Maybe because he had to get rid of the ball as soon as it was snapped.

Because Bowe dropped a 30+ yard touchdown pass and a pass right after that. Part of the reason. If Bowe catches both passes, his completion pct is 62% and YPA is 6.4.

[Ryfo18]

None by freeney but he was sacked, and how many times wat Matt rushed/ hit/ knocked down? Why was Matt's completion rate so low in that game? also why did he only average 5.4 ypc in that game? Maybe because he had to get rid of the ball as soon as it was snapped.

So your response is to pin sacks not directly related to Albert on Albert?:wtfdude:

[C Louie]

It was an ugly game, but when it came down to it, the Chiefs won the game BEHIND CASSEL'S ARM. End of story!!!

Now discuss about how he almost blew the game and blah blah blah and forget that he WON the game for the Chiefs.

Ready and GO!
I agree! He may not be the best QB in the league (or even close) but the bottom line is that he led them down the field in the end and WON the game. I think it is a good sign to see that at least he is capable of that.

[kckidd8870]

Maybe we can get us a Quarter back of the future,sometime soon.All is not a lost yet.We are 5-2.Just think,Tampa Bay and the Ravens Had Trent Dilfer.Tampa got to the Super Bowl with him and the Ravens won a Super Bowl with him.Yes they both had great D-fenses.We have a good D-fense not great,but we do have an awesome running attack.He will improve alittle bit more this year I think.Yes Tampa Bay had Dunn and alstott.We have Jones and Charles baby.It's all good.I now he can't hit his reciever's very well.Like a wide open Charles,streaking up the middle of the field wide open.He does manage the game pretty good.If the Ravens can get to the promise land with Dilfer,why can't we get there with Cassel.I think cassel is a little better than Dilfer was.Maybe soon we can find are Super star QB.In the mean time lets keep finding ways to win with what we have.Everyone quit complaining about what we don't have and enjoy what we do have.Like a 5-2 record.We just came of of a 2-14 and a 4-12 season's guys.Either Cassel will get better or we will have to find someone else down the road.I think we need at least one more big time reciever.A true number 1,wideout.Bowe is pretty good but I don't think a true # 1 reciever.Let's get ready for Raider week guys.Good luck to Cassel and the Chiefs.Lets bring home the win.Good luck Chiefs

[figcrostic]

Maybe we can get us a Quarter back of the future,sometime soon.All is not a lost yet.We are 5-2.Just think,Tampa Bay and the Ravens Had Trent Dilfer.Tampa got to the Super Bowl with him and the Ravens won a Super Bowl with him.Yes they both had great D-fenses.We have a good D-fense not great,but we do have an awesome running attack.He will improve alittle bit more this year I think.Yes Tampa Bay had Dunn and alstott.We have Jones and Charles baby.It's all good.I now he can't hit his reciever's very well.Like a wide open Charles,streaking up the middle of the field wide open.He does manage the game pretty good.If the Ravens can get to the promise land with Dilfer,why can't we get there with Cassel.I think cassel is a little better than Dilfer was.Maybe soon we can find are Super star QB.In the mean time lets keep finding ways to win with what we have.Everyone quit complaining about what we don't have and enjoy what we do have.Like a 5-2 record.We just came of of a 2-14 and a 4-12 season's guys.Either Cassel will get better or we will have to find someone else down the road.I think we need at least one more big time reciever.A true number 1,wideout.Bowe is pretty good but I don't think a true # 1 reciever.Let's get ready for Raider week guys.Good luck to Cassel and the Chiefs.Lets bring home the win.Good luck Chiefs

I'm completely with this. All I'm saying is in order for Matt to succeed things need to change like getting him an upgraded line. This might be Waters last year, why not get a LT and put Alberts who is a pro-bowl caliber guard in Waters position at the end of the season. I am not calling for anyones head but somethings need to happen in the offseason.

[Chiefster]

Our "O" line is much better then the last two previous seasons, but agree that they are not getting any younger and we need to be drafting or fishing the FA market for upgrades.

[nigeriannightmare]

or Big Ben, or Matt Schaub, or Phillip Rivers, or Drew Brees, or Brett Farve (not so much this year), or Aaron Rogers, or Tony Romo, or potentially Matt Stafford, or potentially Josh Freeman.

Most of us that supposedly hate Cassel don't feel that we need a Peyton, we just feel that we need a QB that doesn't make our offense one dimensional. We want a QB that can take advantage of the weapons around him, not rely on them to make him look better than he is (i.e Rivers yesterday)

Brady, Manning, Brees, Big Ben those are the elite qb's. Until rivers, romo, rogers win a superbowl they will never be considered elite. Are you kidding me right now. We picked up Matt Cassel and Vrabel for a second round pick after matt was franchised by probably the stingiest team in the nfl. Yes the patriots franchised him with a 14 million dollar tender.

Matt Cassel is here for this season and next google his contract and learn something.

[figcrostic]

So your response is to pin sacks not directly related to Albert on Albert?:wtfdude:

Alberts is one of our better O-line man but he is a guard playing LT. He is a pro-bowler at guard and an average LT. The fact that Cassel hasn't been sacked as much should be given more credit to Charlie Weis scheme of getting rid of the ball fast. If Charlie Weis trusted our line and our qb then why don't we pass more I know our running game is top notch, but we do suck at converting on 3rd down so passing could help.

[Ryfo18]

I'm completely with this. All I'm saying is in order for Matt to succeed things need to change like getting him an upgraded line. This might be Waters last year, why not get a LT and put Alberts who is a pro-bowl caliber guard in Waters position at the end of the season. I am not calling for anyones head but somethings need to happen in the offseason.

The guy has played LT for the last 2 seasons and made huge strides. That and he's quickly becoming a pro-bowl caliber LT. Why make him move positions again?

This is your problem figcrostic. Your solution to everything is "get new players." Open your eyes a little bit, just about everyone across the board is getting better staying in the positions that they are in. So next year in the first round, you think we should take a LT just so we can say we have a first round LT. Branden Albert is a stud LT. Your willingness to just move guys around on this team is ridiculous. All of the talent and playing time and positional instincts a guy develops at one position are for the most part lost when he moves into a completely new role.

[figcrostic]

Our "O" line is much better then the last two previous seasons, but agree that they are not getting any younger and we need to be drafting or fishing the FA market for upgrades.

This......It all starts with the o-line LJ was a pro-bowler under the best O-line in the NFL without it he was garbage. If we are to give Matt a chance he needs a better line.

[Ryfo18]

Alberts is one of our better O-line man but he is a guard playing LT. He is a pro-bowler at guard and an average LT. The fact that Cassel hasn't been sacked as much should be given more credit to Charlie Weis scheme of getting rid of the ball fast. If Charlie Weis trusted our line and our qb then why don't we pass more I know our running game is top notch, but we do suck at converting on 3rd down so passing could help.

I just want to post for you Albert's player profile from the NFL combine:

"An exciting blend of size and athletic ability, Albert emerged as a standout his freshman season and went on to start all 36 games for Virginia before leaving after his junior year. A former basketball player who has only played football since his junior year of high school, Albert has rare quickness for a man of his size to block at the second level, and features the size, strength and hand placement to generate movement at the point of attack. An all-conference selection each of the past three seasons, Albert will be graded by some teams as a tackle prospect after fairing well at left tackle in two starts due to injury to starter Eugene Monroe."

[figcrostic]

The guy has played LT for the last 2 seasons and made huge strides. That and he's quickly becoming a pro-bowl caliber LT. Why make him move positions again?

This is your problem figcrostic. Your solution to everything is "get new players." Open your eyes a little bit, just about everyone across the board is getting better staying in the positions that they are in. So next year in the first round, you think we should take a LT just so we can say we have a first round LT. Branden Albert is a stud LT. Your willingness to just move guys around on this team is ridiculous. All of the talent and playing time and positional instincts a guy develops at one position are for the most part lost when he moves into a completely new role.

Your right moving guys around is so stupid look at the disaster that happened moving Hali to OLB from DE. Geez that was so stupid I can't believe that he had been at the position for years now he's failing miserably.:whipping1:

[Chiefster]

This......It all starts with the o-line LJ was a pro-bowler under the best O-line in the NFL without it he was garbage. If we are to give Matt a chance he needs a better line.

...And, not to say that the "O" line has performed poorly this year; I'm just concerned about the amount of football left in them.

[Ryfo18]

Your right moving guys around is so stupid look at the disaster that happened moving Hali to OLB from DE. Geez that was so stupid I can't believe that he had been at the position for years now he's failing miserably.:whipping1:

Right, just like it was stupid to move Albert from gaurd to LT. He's failing miserably, giving up a sack once every 7 games and opening up holes for a running game that has had 3 straight 220+ yards on the ground. Your logic is failing you miserably. My question: Why move a guy back to guard 2 years later when he's become a very solid LT? Just so we can say we have a first round pick LT? Oh that's right, Albert was a first round pick.

[figcrostic]

I just want to post for you Albert's player profile from the NFL combine:

"An exciting blend of size and athletic ability, Albert emerged as a standout his freshman season and went on to start all 36 games for Virginia before leaving after his junior year. A former basketball player who has only played football since his junior year of high school, Albert has rare quickness for a man of his size to block at the second level, and features the size, strength and hand placement to generate movement at the point of attack. An all-conference selection each of the past three seasons, Albert will be graded by some teams as a tackle prospect after fairing well at left tackle in two starts due to injury to starter Eugene Monroe."

You left out his negatives: " A bit top-heavy. ... Can struggle against lesser players when he tires and plays with too high of a pad level. ... Good quickness to generate initial block, but too often doesn't sustain long enough. ... Flashes nastiness, but needs to play with more consistency. ... Marginal lateral quickness to pull." They even say he does not sustain blocks that's why he's a good run blocker and not a good pass blocker.

[Ryfo18]

You left out his negatives: " A bit top-heavy. ... Can struggle against lesser players when he tires and plays with too high of a pad level. ... Good quickness to generate initial block, but too often doesn't sustain long enough. ... Flashes nastiness, but needs to play with more consistency. ... Marginal lateral quickness to pull." They even say he does not sustain blocks that's why he's a good run blocker and not a good pass blocker.

Can struggle against lesser players when he tires and plays with too high of a pad level....Have you noticed this?

Good quickness to generate initial block, but too often doesn't sustain long enough...He's been sustaining long enough this year to only give up 1 sack.

Marginal lateral quickness to pull...Tackles rarely pull. Ever heard of the term pulling guard? Hmm, maybe he is a more ideal tackle than guard based on this weakness.

Flashes nastiness, but needs to play with more consistency...He's been one of the most consistent LT's in the league dating back to the last 8 games of 2009.

[figcrostic]

...And, not to say that the "O" line has performed poorly this year; I'm just concerned about the amount of football left in them.

No they are definitely better, but Waters and Wiegman are near retirement. I don't wanna talk bad on either though because they both were part of maybe the greatest O-line in the history of the NFL along with Roaf, Shields, and Tait. If we get a line like that again even Matt Cassel can be a pro-bowler.

[figcrostic]

Can struggle against lesser players when he tires and plays with too high of a pad level....Have you noticed this?

Good quickness to generate initial block, but too often doesn't sustain long enough...He's been sustaining long enough this year to only give up 1 sack.

Marginal lateral quickness to pull...Tackles rarely pull. Ever heard of the term pulling guard? Hmm, maybe he is a more ideal tackle than guard based on this weakness.

Flashes nastiness, but needs to play with more consistency...He's been one of the most consistent LT's in the league dating back to the last 8 games of 2009.

Oh you mean when LJ got cut and Jamaal started yeah I did notice him making our line look a lot better.

[Chiefster]

No they are definitely better, but Waters and Wiegman are near retirement. I don't wanna talk bad on either though because they both were part of maybe the greatest O-line in the history of the NFL along with Roaf, Shields, and Tait. If we get a line like that again even Matt Cassel can be a pro-bowler.

Absolutely! The balancing act will be keeping our defense performing at optimum capacity. It's has been difficult for the Chiefs to upgrade one side of the ball without neglecting the other.

[Ryfo18]

Oh you mean when LJ got cut and Jamaal started yeah I did notice him making our line look a lot better.

Yep, right about then. 8 games into his transition from a guard to a LT. I'm done going back and forth. We'll see how desperate the Chiefs are to grab a new LT in next year's draft. It was apparent they were disappointed with Albert's development as a LT because they went out and grabbed on in last year's draft...Oh wait, no they didn't.

[figcrostic]

Yep, right about then. 8 games into his transition from a guard to a LT. I'm done going back and forth. We'll see how desperate the Chiefs are to grab a new LT in next year's draft. It was apparent they were disappointed with Albert's development as a LT because they went out and grabbed on in last year's draft...Oh wait, no they didn't.

Myself and many others think that was a mistake. I truly believe we need a LT, and a center and our line is looking very good. Waters will retire soon, and so will Wiegman. Albert's in my opinon is a pro-bowler guard playing LT, he's not a bad LT but he's a much better guard. We need another Willie Roaf. The man was a beast he made opened more holes then Ron Jeremy. LOL sorry couldn't resist.

[brdempsey69]

Agree with figcrostic. Albert is OK at LT to a point, but the better DE's in the league beat him ( see Dwight Freeney in the Indy game). Sorry, but he's not a franchise-caliber LT when it comes to pass protection & the truth of the matter is the Chiefs can only go so far with him at LT. He may have only given up 1 sack, but he's still given up a lot of pressures and hits on the QB -- and this on a team that has attempted fewer passes than just about everybody else. Just because they passed on Russell Okung in the draft doesn't mean it was the right choice & it sure as hell doesn't make Albert a franchise-caliber LT.

[Chief Tyler]

Brady, Manning, Brees, Big Ben those are the elite qb's. Until rivers, romo, rogers win a superbowl they will never be considered elite. Are you kidding me right now. We picked up Matt Cassel and Vrabel for a second round pick after matt was franchised by probably the stingiest team in the nfl. Yes the patriots franchised him with a 14 million dollar tender.

Matt Cassel is here for this season and next google his contract and learn something.

I was actually fully aware of his top heavy contract, that doesn't keep us from debating about the quality of his performances in the least, and it certainly doesn't keep a team from getting rid of a mistake should they deem it one (Raiders, and I'm not saying Cassel is near that level, I happen to think he's our starter next year barring a catastrophic meltdown, and right now I'm not overly enthused about it).

My point in listing those players was to show that it's not impossible to find a signal caller that would make this offense dynamic/explosive. So sorry for the ambiguity.

Next time you try to throw around insults lets try and do so on topic rather than nitpicking in the deepest, darkest corners of irrelevance, but at the same time, thank you for making me aware of the two year old common knowledge that I seemed to have missed the first time around. Truly do appreciate it.

[nigeriannightmare]

I was actually fully aware of his top heavy contract, that doesn't keep us from debating about the quality of his performances in the least, and it certainly doesn't keep a team from getting rid of a mistake should they deem it one (Raiders, and I'm not saying Cassel is near that level, I happen to think he's our starter next year barring a catastrophic meltdown, and right now I'm not overly enthused about it).

My point in listing those players was to show that it's not impossible to find a signal caller that would make this offense dynamic/explosive. So sorry for the ambiguity.

Next time you try to throw around insults lets try and do so on topic rather than nitpicking in the deepest, darkest corners of irrelevance, but at the same time, thank you for making me aware of the two year old common knowledge that I seemed to have missed the first time around. Truly do appreciate it.

You said you want an elite qb, elite qb's just don't fall from the sky there is actually quite a bit of luck with it, when a team happens to get one. You are so quick to think cassel can not be elite but given the opportunity I think that he will shine.

If new england didn't think he was worth the money they wouldn't have franchised him and I think we can all agree that the patriots are pretty good at evaluating talent. This was the point I was trying to make and by asking you to read and learn something is thought to be insulting you need to thicken your skin up a bit.

:bananen_smilies046:

[Ryfo18]

Agree with figcrostic. Albert is OK at LT to a point, but the better DE's in the league beat him ( see Dwight Freeney in the Indy game). Sorry, but he's not a franchise-caliber LT when it comes to pass protection & the truth of the matter is the Chiefs can only go so far with him at LT. He may have only given up 1 sack, but he's still given up a lot of pressures and hits on the QB -- and this on a team that has attempted fewer passes than just about everybody else. Just because they passed on Russell Okung in the draft doesn't mean it was the right choice & it sure as hell doesn't make Albert a franchise-caliber LT.

Not many left tackles stop Dwight Freeney... Sure Albert got beat on a few plays, but he held his own for the most part. Same story with Mario Williams. What has Okung done that's really impressive this year?

I love when people come on here and blindly spout their distaste for a player based on past performance, yet provide nothing from recent history as to why this player can't be counted on, other than the fact that he got beat a couple of times by an all-pro defensive end.

[fairladyZ]

I also love when people bring up trent williams.. Um you do realize he was picked before us right?

Okung? oh you mean the guy that hasn't produced hardly at all and been hurt multiple times and missed multiple games now?

[brdempsey69]

Not many left tackles stop Dwight Freeney... Sure Albert got beat on a few plays, but he held his own for the most part. Same story with Mario Williams. What has Okung done that's really impressive this year?

I love when people come on here and blindly spout their distaste for a player based on past performance, yet provide nothing from recent history as to why this player can't be counted on, other than the fact that he got beat a couple of times by an all-pro defensive end.

What has Okung done? When he's healthy, he's been a real stud. He handled Julius Peppers ( he also is an all-pro just like Freeney ) like a champ. Many times he was isolated one-on-one with Peppers and did not allow him a sack or even a pressure and Hasselbeck threw the ball 40 times in that game. Albert has allowed more than just Freeney to get by him and Aaron Kampman of the Jags repeatedly beat Albert to the extent that the games commentator said that Kampman was winning most of the battles against Albert -- which he was. Nobody has blindly posted anything, it's simply not what you want to hear -- and why is it being stated by so many others other than yourself? Albert was a guard in college and he still looks a guard trying to play LT. He's not a Pro Bowl caliber LT and the Chiefs will only go so far with him playing the position.

[brdempsey69]

I also love when people bring up trent williams.. Um you do realize he was picked before us right?

Okung? oh you mean the guy that hasn't produced hardly at all and been hurt multiple times and missed multiple games now?

The injuries to Okung were due to the ineptness of his own teammates roll-blocking into his ankles from his blindside which any player would have gotten hurt from. Has nothing to due with durability. When he's been healthy, he's looked like an All-Pro.

[nigeriannightmare]

Just off the top of my head I know Mcnabb was available . I personally would have liked to see us draft a qb. I think we will in the 2011 draft.


Mc Nabb who was pulled from yesterdays game because he's too out of shape for the two minute drill is who you want....or as shannnahan quoted "lacked the cardiovascular endurance for the two minute drill"

[figcrostic]

I was actually fully aware of his top heavy contract, that doesn't keep us from debating about the quality of his performances in the least, and it certainly doesn't keep a team from getting rid of a mistake should they deem it one (Raiders, and I'm not saying Cassel is near that level, I happen to think he's our starter next year barring a catastrophic meltdown, and right now I'm not overly enthused about it).

My point in listing those players was to show that it's not impossible to find a signal caller that would make this offense dynamic/explosive. So sorry for the ambiguity.

Next time you try to throw around insults lets try and do so on topic rather than nitpicking in the deepest, darkest corners of irrelevance, but at the same time, thank you for making me aware of the two year old common knowledge that I seemed to have missed the first time around. Truly do appreciate it.

Repped

[Ryfo18]

What has Okung done? When he's healthy, he's been a real stud. He handled Julius Peppers ( he also is an all-pro just like Freeney ) like a champ. Many times he was isolated one-on-one with Peppers and did not allow him a sack or even a pressure and Hasselbeck threw the ball 40 times in that game. Albert has allowed more than just Freeney to get by him and Aaron Kampman of the Jags repeatedly beat Albert to the extent that the games commentator said that Kampman was winning most of the battles against Albert -- which he was. Nobody has blindly posted anything, it's simply not what you want to hear -- and why is it being stated by so many others other than yourself? Albert was a guard in college and he still looks a guard trying to play LT. He's not a Pro Bowl caliber LT and the Chiefs will only go so far with him playing the position.

Thanks, that's all I asked for. I'm more saying that Albert (and Cassel) continue to improve all aspects of their game. As long as they are doing that and we're having success, I don't see a need to make them our top priority positions.

[chief31]

You had a decent point until you got to here. I know you like to come in and snipe at people and try to make yourself feel superior for whatever reason. You picked my quote for some reason, not sure exactly I think what I said was fairly truthful and pretty fair towards Matt, but whatever the case you picked my quote and instead of writing something intelligent or thought provoking or really interesting in any way you put you think Matt's pay should be doubled. As of right now Matt's base salary with no bonuses is nearly 12 million. Making him a very high paid qb. In fact he will make almost double Drew Brees this year. Granted Drew is having a bad year for Drew brees 14 td's and 10 int over 2000 yards and only a 69.7 completion rate and he lost his two starting rb's. Compared to Matt's 10 td's 3 int and 1200 yards and only a 58.7 competion rate. Not only to mention the fact that Drew Brees is coming off a superbowl win last year in which he was the MVP. Basically what I put is that Matt is an average qb that is basically a game manager and isn't getting much help from his line, play calling, and wr's. Many columnist agree with me on this. Now to say that he should have his salary doubled for being a game manager which would put him in the 25 million per year salary range which would make him the highest paid nfl player by far. Now my question is were you trying to be funny or do you actually believe that he should become the highest paid NFL player?

It was a bit of an exaggeration. Not as much as your entire reply... but a bit.

And if The Chiefs chose to double his pay today, I would be fine with it.


I also vote to double the pay of a quarterback who throws for 152 yards in five quarters (a huge chunk of it coming out of the backfield, inflating that number) and manages a rating of 84.1. Because performance is based on numbers regardless of what the on-field product looks like. Amirite?

Does it look like 5-2? If not, then you aren't seeing it.

Seriously, the numbers do actually matter too.

If you decide to be fair and give him a pass for his first two games in Weiss' offense, then he has thrown nine TDs and 1 INT over the past five games.

If you ask for more than that from a QB on a team that averages over 190 yards rushing per game, then you are just completely irrational.

And, if that kind of production continues, (28.8 TDs and 3.2 INTs) then you have your Pro-Bowler.

It makes absolutely no difference what you think it looks like.

If the results continue as they have been over the past five games, then you will give up on the notion that Cassel isn't an elite QB.

The rest of the world will convince you.


or Big Ben, or Matt Schaub, or Phillip Rivers, or Drew Brees, or Brett Farve (not so much this year), or Aaron Rogers, or Tony Romo, or potentially Matt Stafford, or potentially Josh Freeman.

Most of us that supposedly hate Cassel don't feel that we need a Peyton, we just feel that we need a QB that doesn't make our offense one dimensional. We want a QB that can take advantage of the weapons around him, not rely on them to make him look better than he is (i.e Rivers yesterday)

I was hoping to see Roethlisberger's name in all of this....

In 2008, Ben threw for 3,301 yards, 17 TDs and 15 INTs.

Very pedestrian numbers, and quite inferior to what Cassel has been doing this season.

But he was a Super Bowl champion hat season.

In 2005 he threw for 2,385 yards, 17 TDs and 9 INTs.

Still inferior to what Cassel has managed this season. And still, he won a Super Bowl that season.


I'm completely with this. All I'm saying is in order for Matt to succeed things need to change like getting him an upgraded line. This might be Waters last year, why not get a LT and put Alberts who is a pro-bowl caliber guard in Waters position at the end of the season. I am not calling for anyones head but somethings need to happen in the offseason.

Like it, or not, Cassel is succeeding right in front of you. And only half-way through his first season with Weiss' offense.


Oh you mean when LJ got cut and Jamaal started yeah I did notice him making our line look a lot better.

Did you notice LJ's one-dimensional running style making them look worse prior to that?


Yep, right about then. 8 games into his transition from a guard to a LT. I'm done going back and forth. We'll see how desperate the Chiefs are to grab a new LT in next year's draft. It was apparent they were disappointed with Albert's development as a LT because they went out and grabbed on in last year's draft...Oh wait, no they didn't.

Actually, that was about 24 games into the transition.

For the time being, I am off of Albert's back.

But I still think that there is room for a significant improvement at LOT.

Basically, for the Cassel conversation....

Right now, with Cassel producing at the level he has been, it baffles me that all of us Cassel-doubters aren't keeping criticism 'on hold' until he does, at least, something wrong.

That's right. I said "us Cassel-doubters".

I was as unhappy as anyone when we threw a second round pick out there for him.

Noone was any more doubtful of a guy who played well on the 16-0 Pats.

I pointed out, repeatedly, that he was taking an enormous amount of sacks, where Brady had been one of the least sacked guys the previous season.

And I still have plenty of doubts about his abilty to continue to produce at such a high level.

I am definitely one of you.

But, so far this season, he has made tremendous strides in proving that he is what Pioli thought he was.

I wouldn't expect every one of you to join me in singing his praises. Humility isn't a great color for everyone.

But I would honestly expect all Cassel-doubters to STFU while he is producing as he has been.

If it looks like a plain old goose, but it produces gold eggs on the hour, then what is the complaint?

At least wait until the gold eggs quit coming to kick the goose.

[Coach]

Albert's gets beat up when we play good pass rushers look at what freeney did to him Albert had a lousy game against Indy - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/10/13/1750369/albert-had-a-lousy-game-against-indy) .

Albert is the only LT to have a bad game against Dwight Freeney. Freeney really isnt very good.:yahoo:

[Coach]

Some people just need something to ***** about. The team is playing well, the draft class looks incredible. The team has already won more games than most had predicted for the entire season. They are 1st place in the division with a 3 game lead after only 8 weeks. We have the 2nd best record in football.

Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Please continue complaining about this team.

[Ryfo18]

Some people just need something to ***** about. The team is playing well, the draft class looks incredible. The team has already won more games than most had predicted for the entire season. They are 1st place in the division with a 3 game lead after only 8 weeks. We have the 2nd best record in football.

Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Please continue complaining about this team.

:postpimp4ib:

[brdempsey69]

Thanks, that's all I asked for. I'm more saying that Albert (and Cassel) continue to improve all aspects of their game. As long as they are doing that and we're having success, I don't see a need to make them our top priority positions.

As of now I don't think these are the top priority positions going into this upcoming off-season, either. It's definitely WR and another pass-rusher to compliment Hali. Also, it's questionable if Albert is really improving his pass-protection skills or is he already as good as he's ever going to get in that area? He'll be tested against the Raiders this weekend, especially if they get behind the Raiders and have to throw the ball to try to get back in the game. The Raiders pass-rush has been outstanding the past two games and they were better against the run as well.

[Ryfo18]

As of now I don't think these are the top priority positions going into this upcoming off-season, either. It's definitely WR and another pass-rusher to compliment Hali. Also, it's questionable if Albert is really improving his pass-protection skills or is he already as good as he's ever going to get in that area? He'll be tested against the Raiders this weekend, especially if they get behind the Raiders and have to throw the ball to try to get back in the game. The Raiders pass-rush has been outstanding the past two games and they were better against the run as well.

Let's just hope that isn't the case! :chiefs:

[chief31]

As of now I don't think these are the top priority positions going into this upcoming off-season, either. It's definitely WR and another pass-rusher to compliment Hali. Also, it's questionable if Albert is really improving his pass-protection skills or is he already as good as he's ever going to get in that area? He'll be tested against the Raiders this weekend, especially if they get behind the Raiders and have to throw the ball to try to get back in the game. The Raiders pass-rush has been outstanding the past two games and they were better against the run as well.

Although.... those last two games were against the 26th and 32nd ranked run defenses in The NFL.:D

[hometeam]

i didnt read through the replys this thread, and sim sure its been said but...


we wouldnt have been in a position to lose the game if cassel was a good QB.

He hasnt made much in the way of mistakes this year, but if the 2 passeshe threw that SHOULD have been picked off, WOULD have been picked off, everyone on his team would be singing a different song.

Im tired of the chiefs team and fans SETTLING on a mediocre QB, thats like dating an ugly girl and claiming shes a 10.

If your gonna date her thats fine, just dont claim shes a 10.

[brdempsey69]

Although.... those last two games were against the 26th and 32nd ranked run defenses in The NFL.:D

Don't you mean run Offenses? I was referring to the Raiders Defense stopping the run.

[chief31]

Don't you mean run Offenses? I was referring to the Raiders Defense stopping the run.

I did. Thanks. :lol:

[chief31]

i didnt read through the replys this thread, and sim sure its been said but...


we wouldnt have been in a position to lose the game if cassel was a good QB.

You aren't really suggesting that no good QB has ever had his team in position to lose a game, or just to lose a game to a lesser team?


He hasnt made much in the way of mistakes this year, but if the 2 passeshe threw that SHOULD have been picked off, WOULD have been picked off, everyone on his team would be singing a different song.

Were they?

And what if Bowe catches the long pass early in the game?






Im tired of the chiefs team and fans SETTLING on a mediocre QB, thats like dating an ugly girl and claiming shes a 10.

If your gonna date her thats fine, just dont claim shes a 10.

I couldn't care much less if it looks ugly.

If the results continue to roll in, then it is beautiful.

Not to mention that he could actually still improve.

[matthewschiefs]

i didnt read through the replys this thread, and sim sure its been said but...


we wouldnt have been in a position to lose the game if cassel was a good QB.

He hasnt made much in the way of mistakes this year, but if the 2 passeshe threw that SHOULD have been picked off, WOULD have been picked off, everyone on his team would be singing a different song.

Im tired of the chiefs team and fans SETTLING on a mediocre QB, thats like dating an ugly girl and claiming shes a 10.

If your gonna date her thats fine, just dont claim shes a 10.

Could passes have been picked off sure. Did Cassle get lucky that at least 1 of them (I can only rember 1) didn't get picked Sure. But on the flip side of that IF D Bowe didn't drop a pass in the endzone you would have seen a diffrent game as well. Those type things go both ways. Every team that loses each week 99% of the time has could have would have should have plays.

Something that CAN'T be overlooked is when Cassle had it put on him and not the running game to get the team down the field on the last drive in OT he did the job. Cassel is not going to put up great Numbers simply because he is being asked to be a game manager. If he was being asked to do what Peyton Manning,Drew Brees and other QBS are being asked to the lack of numbers would be upsetting. But he's not he's doing what he is being asked to do. That's all you can ask for from your QB.

[nigeriannightmare]

i didnt read through the replys this thread, and sim sure its been said but...


we wouldnt have been in a position to lose the game if cassel was a good QB.

He hasnt made much in the way of mistakes this year, but if the 2 passeshe threw that SHOULD have been picked off, WOULD have been picked off, everyone on his team would be singing a different song.

Im tired of the chiefs team and fans SETTLING on a mediocre QB, thats like dating an ugly girl and claiming shes a 10.

If your gonna date her thats fine, just dont claim shes a 10.

DJ dropped two picks one of which could have gone for six.....

[KristofLaw]

Some people just need something to ***** about. The team is playing well, the draft class looks incredible. The team has already won more games than most had predicted for the entire season. They are 1st place in the division with a 3 game lead after only 8 weeks. We have the 2nd best record in football.

Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Please continue complaining about this team.

I wouldn't mind picking up Randy Moss. Might help deflect some of the hate off Cassel. :D :postpimp4ib:

[SIC J]

This thread is still going? haha

Some of you need to get off the would've, should've, could've thing and get back to the thing called REALITY!!! LOL

All these other players some of you think the Chiefs should've went after, guess what? The Chiefs went after guys they felt would help the team win! And the ones they didn't get, its cuz the player didn't want to play for the Chiefs.

And fact is, so far they did a pretty damn good job being that the Chiefs are in first place in the AFC West at 5-2 which is also the 2nd best record in the NFL!!!

[matthewschiefs]

This thread is still going? haha

Some of you need to get off the would've, should've, could've thing and get back to the thing called REALITY!!! LOL

All these other players some of you think the Chiefs should've went after, guess what? The Chiefs went after guys they felt would help the team win! And the ones they didn't get, its cuz the player didn't want to play for the Chiefs.

And fact is, so far they did a pretty damn good job being that the Chiefs are in first place in the AFC West at 5-2 which is also the 2nd best record in the NFL!!!

100% agree with just about everything

This type thread is going to pop up most weeks. Because Matt Cassel is not going to be putting up great numbers that make you say wow. That's because he is not being asked to do that.

There are could have should have would haves that go both ways they didn't happen so we should all move on. I think that if you would have told us all that this team would be 5-2 and in first place before the season we would all be Real happy to take that. Matt Cassel has this team 5-2 that is just the bottom line.

[Chiefster]

Some people just need something to ***** about. The team is playing well, the draft class looks incredible. The team has already won more games than most had predicted for the entire season. They are 1st place in the division with a 3 game lead after only 8 weeks. We have the 2nd best record in football.

Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Please continue complaining about this team.

HA! well said! :bananen_smilies046:

[CapitalT]

I wouldn't mind picking up Randy Moss. Might help deflect some of the hate off Cassel. :D :postpimp4ib:

Apparently hating Cassel is defined by giving him even the slightest criticism. If so, I guess I'm guilty.

[Connie Jo]

Cassel was not sharp today but in the end he did his job. There were many bigger mistakes made then any Cassel made today IMO.

REP! Agree!! Personally, I believe the most worthy errors of noting were coaching errors! I do give Haley credit for standing up and accepting accountability for the coaching errors. It's very beneficial to us all to have a head coach who realizes and admits his mistakes. My respect and trust in Haley strengthens each week.


Amazing how many Cassell haters come to this board after each of his victories.
:thumbdown:

Matt Cassell has the 11th best pass rating in the NFL right now.
NFL Stats: by Player Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2010&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_PASSER_RATING&d-447263-n=1)
He didn't have a great game today, but neither will about 25 other QB's. Not every team can have a Manning, Brady, or Brees on their team.

Do you really think other teams aren't complaining about their QB's as well. The stats say we have the 11th best QB right now. Considering this is a running team, not a passing team, I don't think that's so bad.

I am done now so you can go back to your whining and crying about Matt Cassell. Sorry to interupt.
:ninerssuck:

REP!!!


Oh yeah...


Welcome aboard, Castoff.

:D

Welcome to Chiefs Crowd Castoff! Internet home to the best of the best Chiefs fans!!

:chiefs:


Why should we as fans give a crap about how much he's paid? For one it's an uncapped year, so no effect there. Secondly, the Chiefs have been well under the cap the last few years.

Player salaries I could care less about: 5-2, now that's something to talk about.

I've never cared about the salaries either! Why should I? We have a very solid & wise Chiefs financial team...and GM now too, that's their job. I have faith & trust in their decisions. Apparently, so does the Hunt family...and golly gee...they're intelligent businessmen and billionaires! I'm not, hahaha.


Our defense played great! Our running game was amazing! We won!

Cassel didn't have a bad game but I'm stunned that this game would be held up as an example of why we should all fall in love with Cassel. Cassel still needs to improve ... a lot.

I supported Cassel last year. However, this year he has more protection ... he has a good running game. Like everyone else here, I want us to win a Superbowl! Unless Cassel improves, he's not the guy that will take us there.

I agree overall, however...I think the entire team needs to improve, including Cassel and Coach Haley! Haley made some mistakes, but he admitted to them & took accountability. He's sharp, won't make those mistakes again, which means he too is improving each week as our Head Coach, along with our team.

There were a couple of missed interception opportunities on our defense...can't miss those turnover opportunities, especially come playoff time!

I retain faith in Cassel, noting many positives above negatives, and do believe as he and the team continue to improve each week working together as a 'team'...Cassel has what it takes to lead us to a Superbowl & victory.

We must improve & incorporate more of a passing game, especially when up against tough defenses capable of stopping or slowing our rushing game...and there are many defenses in he NFL capable of such. We also must improve our defense against an opposing passing game, to make it through the playoffs, on to Superbowl & victory!


Am I satisfied with Cassel's play? No. On the other hand I understand that he is a young (in playing time) QB and is improving. IMO he is one good WR away from being a lot better.

Another point, Cassel is very good at moving the team in the two minute drill or hurry up offense. Like a number of people on this site I hope he grows to be a solid QB for years to come for us. You have to love to love his attitude and work ethic.

Agree! REP!


Some people just need something to ***** about. The team is playing well, the draft class looks incredible. The team has already won more games than most had predicted for the entire season. They are 1st place in the division with a 3 game lead after only 8 weeks. We have the 2nd best record in football.

Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. Please continue complaining about this team.

I already gave you rep above, hahaha...but this post is deserving too!!

Hell, I'm still in awe at those who complain about our draft, lol. Holy moly...this has to be one of our best drafts ever for rookies making an amazing positive difference their first year!! These guys are making game winning contributions as rookies!! I can only imagine how much difference they'll make as seasons pass...assuming Pioli is wiser than CP was! This successful of a draft is what we hoped for...or so I thought, I know I did!!

GO CHIEFS!!!!
:chiefs:

[nigeriannightmare]

Apparently hating Cassel is defined by giving him even the slightest criticism. If so, I guess I'm guilty.


criticism is one thinking predicting the future is another...

[Drunker Hillbilly]

Apparently hating Cassel is defined by giving him even the slightest criticism. If so, I guess I'm guilty.
You should read more threads! Slight critisism is the understatement of the year thus far regarding this subject!

[matthewschiefs]

You should read more threads! Slight critisism is the understatement of the year thus far regarding this subject!

Slight Critisism is one thing. I have critisisms of Cassle Like when he holds on to the ball to long and takes sacks that he shouldn't. Blameing Cassle for the whole offense not putting points on the board is not fair to Cassle and just not what's going on. That's what a lot are doing.

[SIC J]

100% agree with just about everything

This type thread is going to pop up most weeks. Because Matt Cassel is not going to be putting up great numbers that make you say wow. That's because he is not being asked to do that.

There are could have should have would haves that go both ways they didn't happen so we should all move on. I think that if you would have told us all that this team would be 5-2 and in first place before the season we would all be Real happy to take that. Matt Cassel has this team 5-2 that is just the bottom line.

And its also VERY DIFFICULT for a QB to throw for 300+ yards a game when the team is rushing for almost 200 yards a game.

[CapitalT]

I agree overall, however...I think the entire team needs to improve, including Cassel and Coach Haley! Haley made some mistakes, but he admitted to them & took accountability. He's sharp, won't make those mistakes again, which means he too is improving each week as our Head Coach, along with our team.

There were a couple of missed interception opportunities on our defense...can't miss those turnover opportunities, especially come playoff time!

I retain faith in Cassel, noting many positives above negatives, and do believe as he and the team continue to improve each week working together as a 'team'...Cassel has what it takes to lead us to a Superbowl & victory.

We must improve & incorporate more of a passing game, especially when up against tough defenses capable of stopping or slowing our rushing game...and there are many defenses in he NFL capable of such. We also must improve our defense against an opposing passing game, to make it through the playoffs, on to Superbowl & victory!


I won't disagree with you Coni :-)

[CapitalT]

Slight Critisism is one thing. I have critisisms of Cassle Like when he holds on to the ball to long and takes sacks that he shouldn't. Blameing Cassle for the whole offense not putting points on the board is not fair to Cassle and just not what's going on. That's what a lot are doing.

Look - I like Cassel. I want him to do well. I just want him to do better.

... and although I agree with the statement above and I think it's completely reasonable, those WHO ARE wildly in favor of Cassel's performance so far are setting a double standard.

On the one hand you ask us to just look how he has led us in the win column (Cassel being considered the essential reason we have a good record.) and on the other hand we should not blame Cassel for any poor team performance indicators. If he gets credit for it all he also will need to take blame for it all.

The "You Must not Complain about Cassel Camp" needs to make up it's mind on which argument you want to make, because they are contradictory.

[Coach]

I think we can all agree that there is room for improvement when it comes to Cassel. He's played well, but he's also missed some big throws downfield.
He's young and will hopefully continue to improve.

[Drunker Hillbilly]

Look - I like Cassel. I want him to do well. I just want him to do better.

... and although I agree with the statement above and I think it's completely reasonable, those WHO ARE wildly in favor of Cassel's performance so far are setting a double standard.

On the one hand you ask us to just look how he has led us in the win column (Cassel being considered the essential reason we have a good record.) and on the other hand we should not blame Cassel for any poor team performance indicators. If he gets credit for it all he also will need to take blame for it all.

The "You Must not Complain about Cassel Camp" needs to make up it's mind on which argument you want to make, because they are contradictory.
I'm not sure I have read one post that intimates anyone being "wildly in favor" of how Cassel is playing. However, I have read posts with people being satisfied with the way he is playing. Look, he is leading or near the top of one statistic that more than any other wins or loses games. Turnovers. He has the least or next to the least amount of INT's in the league. There are so many QB's that go out there and lose games for their teams simply because they turn the ball over. This can not be overlooked. 300 yds a game and 3 INT's does not impress me nor will it win too many games. He has done enough on more than one occasion to lead this team to victory. There have also been times when he has not played well enough for the team to win. He has also had times where his receivers let him down and dropped balls that could have resulted in points.

Bottom line is that this kid has played well enough to have this team leading the division which has not been seen in many years now. If you don't think he gets some of the blame for the losses than I'm not sure you've read all the posts KILLING him and the way he is playing. Checkdown Charlie has this offense "running" at a very high level. When a team has either a GREAT running game or a great passing game, it's ok to have a mediocre opposite game. Not too many teams have led the league in passing AND rushing the last time I checked. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall any. Our league leading rushing attack and for the most part our good defense has gotten us this far. A play here and a play there and we would have 2 more wins and be the talk of the NFL. I'm fine with Cassel playing how he has. A play here and there could have been better for sure but I'm not sure there is a player in the game that this can't be said about.

[MDChiefs!]

So just because we are winning, we should ignore the bad play from our QB?

He was missing a wide open Charles by 5 or 6 yards, throwing 5 yard passes at the feet of our receivers on 3rd and 1, and delivering the ball late to Bowe, when it should have been a TD...even Haley was quoted telling him that he should have thrown that ball earlier. And lucky for us we also had a bills defender drop an interception

Last year everyone blamed the o-line, but now we have one of the highest rated lines in the league, an we can only blame the receivers for so long. Especially with Weis' dink and dunk system where we utilze the RBs and TEs more often than the WRs. Maybe once Cassel shows he can convert a third down every now an then, we will stop tying to run on 3rd and 4 all the time.

This is a huge game for Cassel. I think his play will either make or brake us this week.

[matthewschiefs]

So just because we are winning, we should ignore the bad play from our QB?

He was missing a wide open Charles by 5 or 6 yards, throwing 5 yard passes at the feet of our receivers on 3rd and 1, and delivering the ball late to Bowe, when it should have been a TD...even Haley was quoted telling him that he should have thrown that ball earlier. And lucky for us we also had a bills defender drop an interception

Last year everyone blamed the o-line, but now we have one of the highest rated lines in the league, an we can only blame the receivers for so long. Especially with Weis' dink and dunk system where we utilze the RBs and TEs more often than the WRs. Maybe once Cassel shows he can convert a third down every now an then, we will stop tying to run on 3rd and 4 all the time.

This is a huge game for Cassel. I think his play will either make or brake us this week.


Cassel was late on that throw to bowe I will admit But D bowe or any true number 1 Wr catches that football. Or at least he should. I have not been one that said Cassel has played great. Fact is he hasn't. But I do think we are not giveing him enough credit when it's due. And I do think that there is far to much blame going on Matt Cassel.

I don't no about anyone eles but I have seen some improvement out of Cassel from a year ago. Simply put if that game sunday happend a year ago we lose. Matt Cassel on the last drive lead this team down the field to score. It was not done with the running game as time was running out. It's a shame that we are talking about the bad much more then that. I do want him to get better. And I think he will. But I don't think he is playing badly. He is playing avarge IMO. And with our running game average is ok with me.

[CapitalT]

I'm not sure I have read one post that intimates anyone being "wildly in favor" of how Cassel is playing. However, I have read posts with people being satisfied with the way he is playing. Look, he is leading or near the top of one statistic that more than any other wins or loses games. Turnovers. He has the least or next to the least amount of INT's in the league. There are so many QB's that go out there and lose games for their teams simply because they turn the ball over. This can not be overlooked. 300 yds a game and 3 INT's does not impress me nor will it win too many games. He has done enough on more than one occasion to lead this team to victory. There have also been times when he has not played well enough for the team to win. He has also had times where his receivers let him down and dropped balls that could have resulted in points.

Bottom line is that this kid has played well enough to have this team leading the division which has not been seen in many years now. If you don't think he gets some of the blame for the losses than I'm not sure you've read all the posts KILLING him and the way he is playing. Checkdown Charlie has this offense "running" at a very high level. When a team has either a GREAT running game or a great passing game, it's ok to have a mediocre opposite game. Not too many teams have led the league in passing AND rushing the last time I checked. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't recall any. Our league leading rushing attack and for the most part our good defense has gotten us this far. A play here and a play there and we would have 2 more wins and be the talk of the NFL. I'm fine with Cassel playing how he has. A play here and there could have been better for sure but I'm not sure there is a player in the game that this can't be said about.

OK -I can't argue with the vast majority of that. I'll shut up now.

I want to see Cassel prove my critique 100% wrong and KILL the team (I won't sully this page with their name) we're playing on Sunday. No amount of point differential is too great! I HATE them!

[chief31]

Look - I like Cassel. I want him to do well. I just want him to do better.

... and although I agree with the statement above and I think it's completely reasonable, those WHO ARE wildly in favor of Cassel's performance so far are setting a double standard.

On the one hand you ask us to just look how he has led us in the win column (Cassel being considered the essential reason we have a good record.) and on the other hand we should not blame Cassel for any poor team performance indicators. If he gets credit for it all he also will need to take blame for it all.

The "You Must not Complain about Cassel Camp" needs to make up it's mind on which argument you want to make, because they are contradictory.

I make the argument that, aside from wins/losses, he has been doing a fabulous job on the field.

9 TDs and 1 INT over five games is very impressive results.

This, considering how he played last year, is an amazing transition.


I'm not sure I have read one post that intimates anyone being "wildly in favor" of how Cassel is playing.

That would be me. :D


So just because we are winning, we should ignore the bad play from our QB?

He was missing a wide open Charles by 5 or 6 yards, throwing 5 yard passes at the feet of our receivers on 3rd and 1, and delivering the ball late to Bowe, when it should have been a TD...even Haley was quoted telling him that he should have thrown that ball earlier. And lucky for us we also had a bills defender drop an interception

Last year everyone blamed the o-line, but now we have one of the highest rated lines in the league, an we can only blame the receivers for so long. Especially with Weis' dink and dunk system where we utilze the RBs and TEs more often than the WRs. Maybe once Cassel shows he can convert a third down every now an then, we will stop tying to run on 3rd and 4 all the time.

This is a huge game for Cassel. I think his play will either make or brake us this week.

I think many are guilty of seeing every pass that Cassel makes, and only the highlights of other QBs.

Because every QB in The NFL has some missed opportunities in every single game.

There has not been much "bad play from our QB" to ignore. No more than about any top QB in the league.

I think people are absolutley reaching for things to complain about with Cassel.

Because, throwing 9 TDs and 1 INT through our last five games doesn't really leave much room for complaint.

I have said it many times....

If he continues to produce like that, assuming the running game doesn't go AWOL, then all complaints will be silenced.

If he doesn't, then it will make sense to criticize him.

[MDChiefs!]

If all you look at is TD/int numbers, than hes not doing bad. But if you look at his numbers on 3rd down, where a QBs numbers matter the most, they are among the worst in the league. Barely 50% completition He is also ranked 24th out 32 in downfieldd passing. Not very impressive

[Connie Jo]

I won't disagree with you Coni :-)

:D

Off subject...the train in your sig reminds me of one that use to be on display in Atchison, KS...where I raised my kids, and they consider it their hometown. 'Atchison, Topeka, and Sante Fe' Railroad. I can't read the front of the engine...does it say Sante Fe?

[CapitalT]

:D

Off subject...the train in your sig reminds me of one that use to be on display in Atchison, KS...where I raised my kids, and they consider it their hometown. 'Atchison, Topeka, and Sante Fe' Railroad. I can't read the front of the engine...does it say Sante Fe?

Yup - it's a Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway Super Chief.

Amazing isn't it?

I gotta try to make another Chiefs game this year. Two is not enough!

[Connie Jo]

Yup - it's a Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway Super Chief.

Amazing isn't it?

I gotta try to make another Chiefs game this year. Two is not enough!

Yep!! It is amazing! They moved the historical one very similar to the one in your pic, from where it sat on display for years in Atchison. They restored the old Atchison, Topeka, & Sante Fe Train Depot there, it's on the National Register of Historic Places. There is another train that sits outside on the tracks near the depot now...it's all black.

I love model electric trains. I always wanted one of the outdoor garden trains, but never followed through with my want, haha. I do however, have a Kansas City Chiefs limited edition model train downstairs. It's pretty cool! I designed a glass base which I mounted the pvc track upon, then installed the base around the ceiling soffit's of the area where my pool table sits.

With the glass base viewing the train from below as it runs around the soffit is not obstructed! I'm like a big kid sometimes...I bought a train whistle at Cracker Barrel, and when others are least expecting it I blow the whistle & startle the heck out of them, hahaha. Grandkids think I'm funny, but the grown ups don't always, hahaha.

[chief31]

If all you look at is TD/int numbers, than hes not doing bad. But if you look at his numbers on 3rd down, where a QBs numbers matter the most, they are among the worst in the league. Barely 50% completition He is also ranked 24th out 32 in downfieldd passing. Not very impressive

Sure. Not everything is going perfectly.

But 58.9% is not really what I would call "barely 50%". And, for the past five games, that would be 61.2% (79/129), which could be classified as "barely 60%".

He is not doing as well as could possibly be done.

But he is vastly exceeding what I expected him to be doing through the first half of a season with this offense.

And TD/INTs is the first thing that I hope to see of a QB with a new offense.

To say that there is room for improvement is one thing. And I agree.

But to say that this team can never win the big one with Cassel, considering how well he is adjusting, just seems ridiculous to me.

If he continues to produce, as he has been, and improves on some minor facets of his game, then we have a great QB on our hands.

And, considering how "antsy" he seems to be in certain situations, I imagine that he will improve, as he gets comfortable.

I understand how people were down on him lasts season. But, considering the turnaround that he has made so far, I do not understand being down on him, right now.

[nigeriannightmare]

Sure. Not everything is going perfectly.

But 58.9% is not really what I would call "barely 50%". And, for the past five games, that would be 61.2% (79/129), which could be classified as "barely 60%".

He is not doing as well as could possibly be done.

But he is vastly exceeding what I expected him to be doing through the first half of a season with this offense.

And TD/INTs is the first thing that I hope to see of a QB with a new offense.

To say that there is room for improvement is one thing. And I agree.

But to say that this team can never win the big one with Cassel, considering how well he is adjusting, just seems ridiculous to me.

If he continues to produce, as he has been, and improves on some minor facets of his game, then we have a great QB on our hands.

And, considering how "antsy" he seems to be in certain situations, I imagine that he will improve, as he gets comfortable.

I understand how people were down on him lasts season. But, considering the turnaround that he has made so far, I do not understand being down on him, right now.


Yeah...What he said!

[MDChiefs!]

58.9 is his overall completion %. On 3rd down he is only completinng 51.8% of his passes, and thats bottom 5 in the NFL, and he only converted 2/15 against the Bills, one of the worst Ds in the league. The other 2 conversions were runs. 3rd down efficiency is one of the most important numbers for a QB and he is not getting it done there

And were running pretty much the same offense we were running last year, so I dont know how much more time a 6 year pro needs to get comfortable. Oh but its our WRs fault..

[matthewschiefs]

58.9 is his overall completion %. On 3rd down he is only completinng 51.8% of his passes, and thats bottom 5 in the NFL, and he only converted 2/15 against the Bills, one of the worst Ds in the league. The other 2 conversions were runs. 3rd down efficiency is one of the most important numbers for a QB and he is not getting it done there

And were running pretty much the same offense we were running last year, so I dont know how much more time a 6 year pro needs to get comfortable. Oh but its our WRs fault..



I don't think that anyone has said that the whole problem is the WRS fault. But on the flip side Cassle is not the entire problem with the offense. It's a combination of things. Its the WRs it's at times the O line and it is at time CASSLES. You can't just blame one person for the whole offense struggles. We don't need just anther qb and our offense will be so much better. Our WRs also need to learn to hold on to the football better. And there are times when the O line can do better. It all comes down to this. Who is out there that will clearly do the job better the Cassle? I don't see anyone that you can realistically say has a real chance to come to KC. I don't really want to start over with a rookie QB. We are 5-2 and in first place. Cassle is not putting up superstar numbers but this is not an offense designed for him to. This offense is asking that he not lose games. And that is something that he has been able to do this season.

[MDChiefs!]

Im not advocating for a new QB, tuth is I like Cassel, and its obvious the team does as well, but were fooling ourselves if we think we will be able to win the big games with 3rd down numbers like that.

We run one of the most QB friendly systems there is, and we dont need a gun slinger to run it. Heck, we barely even utilize our WRs in it. And im not only blaming Cassel, I realize we have had dropped passes and things like that, but after what I saw against Buffalo I gave up hope. It was all Cassel. He was overthrowing wide open receivers, throwing late to Bowe in the endzone, throwing 5 yard passes at the feet of a 6'8 TE on 3rd and 1, he even had Buffalo drop a pick, thank God. Against the worst team in the league we left so many points on the board simply because we couldnt move the chains on 3rd down.

[chief31]

58.9 is his overall completion %. On 3rd down he is only completinng 51.8% of his passes, and thats bottom 5 in the NFL, and he only converted 2/15 against the Bills, one of the worst Ds in the league. The other 2 conversions were runs. 3rd down efficiency is one of the most important numbers for a QB and he is not getting it done there

And were running pretty much the same offense we were running last year, so I dont know how much more time a 6 year pro needs to get comfortable. Oh but its our WRs fault..

How much more time?

Not sure. But more than seven games isn't really asking a whole lot.

This is a guy that most of criticized for not being able to get rid of the ball, and now he is trying to adjust to Weiss' quick-release offense.

Not an easy ajustment to make. And yet he is making our pass-protection look far better than last season.

I still don't see any complaint. Third down could definitely be better. But I think the one down game against The Bills really hurts his average.

And what's with the WRs comment?

I don't blame the WRs for a lack of perfection on Cassel's part. I blame ... logic.

To think, after seven games in this offense, that he needs to be replaced, considering his results, is baffling.

He has done an excellent job so far. And if he does get comfortable soon, then there is far better to come.

Through seven games, considering what I saw last season, I couldn't have dreamed of asking for anything more than what Cassel has given.

But then, I try to keep my expectations in the realm of reality.

[MDChiefs!]

And Its not his lack of goddy numbers, because I realize he wont put up those type of numbers when we run for 190 every game, but he needs to put up the numbers where they count the most, and he is not. Normally when a team runs for as much as we do they usually put alot more points on the board. The only reason we havent been, is our trouble converting on 3rd down.

[MDChiefs!]

We are in the same system we ran last system, Weis and Haley let us know that when Weis was brought in. They did that for our QB, and they said that they werent changing alot. And whats baffling is that you are crediting Cassel for how well our pass protection has been. Sure he gets some creit because he has been getting rid of the ball faster, but the QB alone does not turn the worst o-line in the league, into one of the best.

Theres 28 other QBs in the league, incluing rookies, that have a better 3rd down completion % than Cassel, and im asking too much of him in that department? :(

[SIC J]

And Its not his lack of goddy numbers, because I realize he wont put up those type of numbers when we run for 190 every game, but he needs to put up the numbers where they count the most, and he is not. Normally when a team runs for as much as we do they usually put alot more points on the board. The only reason we havent been, is our trouble converting on 3rd down.

Because the 3rd down play calling has been awesome so far this season....................

[MDChiefs!]

Thats an excuse for Cassel only completing 51% of what he is given on 3rd down? that makes no sense. Im sure if he were a little more efficient with what little he was given, Weis would trust him a little more instead of always trying to run it in those situations


Because the 3rd down play calling has been awesome so far this season....................

[chief31]

We are in the same system we ran last system, Weis and Haley let us know that when Weis was brought in. They did that for our QB, and they said that they werent changing alot. And whats baffling is that you are crediting Cassel for how well our pass protection has been.


Well...

Sure he gets some creit because he has been getting rid of the ball faster,

Wait. How is it baffling, if you did the same thing? I wasn't giving all the credit for it. Just some of it.

but the QB alone does not turn the worst o-line in the league, into one of the best.

Theres 28 other QBs in the league, incluing rookies, that have a better 3rd down completion % than Cassel, and im asking too much of him in that department? :(

You're asking too much overall. How do those other 28 QBs stand on QB Rating, or TDs/INTs?

You belittle the accomplishments to focus solely on a single deficiency.

You expect him to be excellent in every aspect, so quickly.

No matter what they want to say about using the same style of offense, anyone can plainly see the vast differences in it.

Weiss is very particular about his QBs play. And last season showed nothing of Weiss' influence.

Cassel is seven games deep in this transition. And he is doing extremely well.

You want to condemn the guy? Have a good time with that.

But, with the 11th ranked QB Rating in The NFL, I am going to be happy to see if he can tie up the loose ends this season, or next.

[MDChiefs!]

the fact is that single deficiency is one of the most impotant aspects of qauarterbacking. thats a fact. You cannot become a clucth QB if you cant even convert on third down. I dont expect him to be perfect, but when you run as much as we do, third downs should be that much easier to convert because of all of the single coverage we see and now matter how you spin it, he sucks at it.

You can keep saying hes only been in the system 7 games and hes 28, but there are QBs in their first an 2nd years out there without half the running attack that we have, that are outplaying him on 3rd downs. But since he has a good QB rating overall, its ok to overlook one of the most important stats of good QBs.

[chief31]

the fact is that single deficiency is one of the most impotant aspects of qauarterbacking. thats a fact. You cannot become a clucth QB if you cant even convert on third down. I dont expect him to be perfect, but when you run as much as we do, third downs should be that much easier to convert because of all of the single coverage we see and now matter how you spin it, he sucks at it.

You can keep saying hes only been in the system 7 games and hes 28, but there are QBs in their first an 2nd years out there without half the running attack that we have, that are outplaying him on 3rd downs. But since he has a good QB rating overall, its ok to overlook one of the most important stats of good QBs.

Ya know what esle is real important for QBs? TDs. Being able to pass for TDs is probably the most difficult part of being an NFL QB. Except for maybe limiting INTs.

I am thrilled with how he has done so far.

It ain't perfect. But it is awefully damn good.

He has done alot more right this season, than he has done wrong.

And ya better get used to it. Because, the way he is progressing, he is going to be with us for a long time.

Sorry if you have fealt insulted by anything I have said. But I really am baffled by continuing complaints, when he keeps proving that he is the guy.

[SIC J]

the fact is that single deficiency is one of the most impotant aspects of qauarterbacking. thats a fact. You cannot become a clucth QB if you cant even convert on third down. I dont expect him to be perfect, but when you run as much as we do, third downs should be that much easier to convert because of all of the single coverage we see and now matter how you spin it, he sucks at it.

You can keep saying hes only been in the system 7 games and hes 28, but there are QBs in their first an 2nd years out there without half the running attack that we have, that are outplaying him on 3rd downs. But since he has a good QB rating overall, its ok to overlook one of the most important stats of good QBs.

Who and how many of these QBs you speak of have a better record than the Chiefs?

[figcrostic]

G********! this thread won't die! :efpge::efpge::efpge:

[Connie Jo]

G********! this thread won't die! :efpge::efpge::efpge:

:lol:

[MDChiefs!]

Did you see how poorly he executed on 3rd own today? Sure he had the good TD throws, but for the most part he was off. Throwing off of his back foot into double coverage for a pick, throwing 3 staright incompletions near the end of the game, 2 of them where nobody could even attempt to make a play on them going out of bounds, insisting on throwing the long ball to Moeaki on 3rd an 1 instead of checking down...go figue, he missed him, missing Charles wide open in the flat, throwing it to Pope on 3rd and short on our last offensive play when Bowe was wide open...I could re watch the game and break down every bad play from him if you want but it woulnt matter because you going to believe what you want to believe.

We were 2/15 on 3rd down today. That is horrible. And Bowe dropping that pass on 3rd down sucked, but we cant blame the entire game on that. If Cassel executes even a little better than what he was, we have seveal chances to put that game away. There is no excuse for being 2/15 on third down againspot the Raiders defense. Now you can throw out all the excuses you want to defend his 3rd down numbers today...

Today we saw what kind of team we have when we dont run for 200 yards, and it wasnt pretty.

Sorry for bumping this up again, but I dont here alot and didnt want to start up a new one, but this is it for me.


Ya know what esle is real important for QBs? TDs. Being able to pass for TDs is probably the most difficult part of being an NFL QB. Except for maybe limiting INTs.

I am thrilled with how he has done so far.

It ain't perfect. But it is awefully damn good.

He has done alot more right this season, than he has done wrong.

And ya better get used to it. Because, the way he is progressing, he is going to be with us for a long time.

Sorry if you have fealt insulted by anything I have said. But I really am baffled by continuing complaints, when he keeps proving that he is the guy.

[chief31]

Did you see how poorly he executed on 3rd own today? Sure he had the good TD throws, but for the most part he was off. Throwing off of his back foot into double coverage for a pick, throwing 3 staright incompletions near the end of the game, 2 of them where nobody could even attempt to make a play on them going out of bounds, insisting on throwing the long ball to Moeaki on 3rd an 1 instead of checking down...go figue, he missed him, missing Charles wide open in the flat, throwing it to Pope on 3rd and short on our last offensive play when Bowe was wide open...I could re watch the game and break down every bad play from him if you want but it woulnt matter because you going to believe what you want to believe.

We were 2/15 on 3rd down today. That is horrible. And Bowe dropping that pass on 3rd down sucked, but we cant blame the entire game on that. If Cassel executes even a little better than what he was, we have seveal chances to put that game away. There is no excuse for being 2/15 on third down againspot the Raiders defense. Now you can throw out all the excuses you want to defend his 3rd down numbers today...

Today we saw what kind of team we have when we dont run for 200 yards, and it wasnt pretty.

Sorry for bumping this up again, but I dont here alot and didnt want to start up a new one, but this is it for me.

Seriously though.... Cassel played well enough to win this for us. Bowe dropped the game-winner.

If Bowe catches that one pass that went between his hands, the game is over.

I'll still admit that Cassel needs to improve on third down. But he won this game for us.... (If Bowe makes that very simple catch.)

Cassel most certainly didn't cost us this one.

[Chiefster]

Seriously though.... Cassel played well enough to win this for us. Bowe dropped the game-winner.

If Bowe catches that one pass that went between his hands, the game is over.

I'll still admit that Cassel needs to improve on third down. But he won this game for us.... (If Bowe makes that very simple catch.)

Cassel most certainly didn't cost us this one.


True, Bowe missed the very catch-able pass that would have, more then likely, kept alive the game winning drive.

[MDChiefs!]

You keep saying if, but what if Cassel was more efficient on 3rd down earlier in the game? Then it wouldnt have come down that play. If hes more efficient we could have went up 17-0 before halftime, instead of giving them the pick and the momentum before half. We can play the if game with everything, but the fact that the game was still even up in the air at that point was a sign we couldnt execute when we needed to.

Even with all of our penalties, we were still given opportunities we shouldnt have been given thanks to the refs, and we couldnt capitalize on those either. Im sorry, but theres nothing you can say to defend his numbers on 3rd down today. Between Haley, Weis, Bowe, Cassel, and our o-line, there is more than enough blame to go around. Yes, even for Cassel

[chief31]

True, Bowe missed the very catch-able pass that would have, more then likely, kept alive the game winning drive.

Actually, if he had caught that ball, it was going to be The Chiefs downing the ball to kill the remainder of the clock.

No OT. No last-minute hurrahs. Game over. Chiefs win.

[chief31]

You keep saying if, but what if Cassel was more efficient on 3rd down earlier in the game? Then it wouldnt have come down that play. If hes more efficient we could have went up 17-0 before halftime, instead of giving them the pick and the momentum before half. We can play the if game with everything, but the fact that the game was still even up in the air at that point was a sign we couldnt execute when we needed to.

Even with all of our penalties, we were still given opportunities we shouldnt have been given thanks to the refs, and we couldnt capitalize on those either. Im sorry, but theres nothing you can say to defend his numbers on 3rd down today. Between Haley, Weis, Bowe, Cassel, and our o-line, there is more than enough blame to go around. Yes, even for Cassel

There is a difference between refs not calling penalties that didn't happen, or Bowe making a catch, in the open, that went between his hands, and playing better than what was needed.

When the game was going to be over with just one more pass completion, Cassel succeeded, and Bowe made sure that that success wasn't good enough.

Cassel did not take a TD off the board for The Chiefs. Nor did he fail at completing an easy pass to win the game. (Third down, mind you.)

Ya know, Charles rushed for 177 yards last week. But, if he had not been tackled for a measly two yards on that one carry, and taken it for a TD, we wouldn't have had to go to OT to win.

For that matter, I saw him rush for a three yard gain on a play today. How dare he not do better than that?

Suggesting that a player could have done better, even if he did very well, and won this game, is easy. But that works for just about every player on the field.

And singling out Cassel just shows a continued bias against him.

Cassel did well today. More than enough to win this game.

[tornadospotter]

I have stated, that there are certain players, that this is the year they make or break, one took a big step backwords today. It is this, who cares what you did last game, or the game before. It is what do you do every game. We will see how the rest of the season goes, but in the NFL, you can not be a one highlight play per game player. You must be consistent! Every play, every game. That is what makes you, in the NFL.

[Chiefster]

I have stated, that there are certain players, that this is the year they make or break, one took a big step backwords today. It is this, who cares what you did last game, or the game before. It is what do you do every game. We will see how the rest of the season goes, but in the NFL, you can not be a one highlight play per game player. You must be consistent! Every play, every game. That is what makes you, in the NFL.

Yup! NFL Means Not For Long when you cannot be consistent.

[MDChiefs!]

So when Bowe drops one pass he loses the game for us, but when Cassel throws a bad passes all game, especially on 3rd downs, its not his fault? It works both ways you know. The Game could have been over alot sooner had Cassel played better, but you dont get that because that would mean admitting that Cassel made mistakes. You keep blaming the entire game on that one drop.

You keep saying he succeeded, but he was 2-15 on third down! How is that success? I cant believe we went 2-15 on 3rd downs and your blaming this entire thing on Bowe? Im not just blaming Cassel, everyone contibuted to this loss, I dont know how you couldnt see that, but for you to sit here and say Cassel played well today, and call me biased is funny. lol Your the one saying he gets zero blame for this loss with those awful 3rd down numbers an im the biased one?

[matthewschiefs]

So when Bowe drops one pass he loses the game for us, but when Cassel throws a bad passes all game, especially on 3rd downs, its not his fault? It works both ways you know. The Game could have been over alot sooner had Cassel played better, but you dont get that because that would mean admitting that Cassel made mistakes. You keep blaming the entire game on that one drop.

You keep saying he succeeded, but he was 2-15 on third down! How is that success? I cant believe we went 2-15 on 3rd downs and your blaming this entire thing on Bowe? Im not just blaming Cassel, everyone contibuted to this loss, I dont know how you couldnt see that, but for you to sit here and say Cassel played well today, and call me biased is funny. lol Your the one saying he gets zero blame for this loss with those awful 3rd down numbers an im the biased one?


I myself do think Cassel played well today. he went 20 for 35 216 yards 2tds 1int. Yes that INT did hurt But I think he played well. The 3rd downs are not all Cassels fault either. The WRs have to get open. The O line HAS to protect better then they did today. There were a few times Cassel scrambled and made something out of nothing. That does not get overlooked. Did he miss throws of course EVERY NFL QB does EVERY week. Peyton Manning overthrows WRS all the time. The diffrance is he has always had Marvion Harrison or Reggie waynes to go up get the football then he gets all the credit. Cassle does not have that. The bowe droped hurt more then anything that Cassle did because that would have ment Oakland NEVER got the ball back.

Yes he is part of it. I do say he is part of the reason we lost because he is a member of the chiefs and the Chiefs lost this game. But if we win that game I don't think that there is as much Anti Cassle talk. Cassle is playing well for what he is being asked to do.In the NFL the qb gets to much praise when your winning and to much blame when you lose.

[MDChiefs!]

we had one citical drop in this game, and were still blaming that? Yes the o-line got pushed around, yes Bowe dropped one pass, sure the play calling was questionable again, but we were 3-15 on third down. None of that excuses our lack of execution. There were still plenty of times where we had good pass potection. And your right about Manning missing passes, everyone does, but he is nowhere near the bottom of the barrel in 3rd down completion % like Cassel is. Thats the difference, and its a big difference.

As I said, the fact that the game was even still up in the air when Bowe dropped the pass speaks stongly of how poorly we played. We had the ball for 33 minutes an if Cassel had played well enough to win that game, we would have.

[SIC J]

we had one citical drop in this game, and were still blaming that? Yes the o-line got pushed around, yes Bowe dropped one pass, sure the play calling was questionable again, but we were 3-15 on third down. None of that excuses our lack of execution. There were still plenty of times where we had good pass potection. And your right about Manning missing passes, everyone does, but he is nowhere near the bottom of the barrel in 3rd down completion % like Cassel is. Thats the difference, and its a big difference.

As I said, the fact that the game was even still up in the air when Bowe dropped the pass speaks stongly of how poorly we played. We had the ball for 33 minutes an if Cassel had played well enough to win that game, we would have.

And if the receivers got open and/or catch the ball, that percentage goes up. And its not like Cassel threw the ball all 15 times either.

[wilqb16]

we had one citical drop in this game, and were still blaming that? Yes the o-line got pushed around, yes Bowe dropped one pass, sure the play calling was questionable again, but we were 3-15 on third down. None of that excuses our lack of execution. There were still plenty of times where we had good pass potection. And your right about Manning missing passes, everyone does, but he is nowhere near the bottom of the barrel in 3rd down completion % like Cassel is. Thats the difference, and its a big difference.

As I said, the fact that the game was even still up in the air when Bowe dropped the pass speaks stongly of how poorly we played. We had the ball for 33 minutes an if Cassel had played well enough to win that game, we would have.

You could say that about anyone, though. If Bowe had played well enough, if Jones had played well enough, if McGraw doesn't drop 2 more INT's, etc. I don't think we can say that he is the "weak link" when this team has basically two receivers, Dwayne Bowe and Tony Moeaki right now. I mean Terrance Copper is getting tons of looks. Anyone notice that the Chiefs were regularly using Moeaki as a WR throughout the game? That shows what the Weis and company must think of their options at receiver. In spite of that, if Cassel were to replicate his numbers in the 2nd half of the season, he would wind up with 428 attempts, 250 completions, for 2824 yards, 24 touchdowns, 8 interceptions and a QB rating of 89.2. You can argue any way you want but that isn't bad.

Cassel has not been good on 3rd down this season, that is true (I'd love to know what his actual 3rd down rating is if anyone knows where that stat is at). But I know two years ago with NE he had the best 3rd down rating in the NFL with like 108.9. I think some of it is that we have a tendency to generally run more on 3rd and less than 6 (more makeable 3rd downs) than other teams, so his numbers are a little skewed.

Having said that, my take on Cassel is that he is a good decision maker (still a 1.9% interception percentage), a tough competitor but - unfortunately - not the most accurate passer. A fact that isn't helped by the fact that we don't have receivers with best hands, either. My hope is that he develops into a Donovan McNabb type (who has overcome accuracy problems throughout is career).

[Bike]

This was a tough loss just for the fact that we could've been 6-2 with another division win vs our closest rival. Now the division is up in the air. We need this win in Denver badly - as faiders have bye then go to Pittsburg.
Cassel is a decent qb - but needs a lot of help around him to succeed. We knew our OL was suspect when this season began. And I say bench Bowe and Chambers and and start McCluster and Copper, maybe bring in Horne off the practice squad. Teams are gonna hone in on our running game for the rest of the year - we need to get our passing game working.

[Ryfo18]

This was a tough loss just for the fact that we could've been 6-2 with another division win vs our closest rival. Now the division is up in the air. We need this win in Denver badly - as faiders have bye then go to Pittsburg.
Cassel is a decent qb - but needs a lot of help around him to succeed. We knew our OL was suspect when this season began. And I say bench Bowe and Chambers and and start McCluster and Copper, maybe bring in Horne off the practice squad. Teams are gonna hone in on our running game for the rest of the year - we need to get our passing game working.

Lol the passing game isn't gonna magically start working by benching our best options at WR. McCluster is a slot guy. He's not big enough to kind up wide with big physical corners. And Horne was cut like 4-5 weeks ago.

[CapitalT]

With the Raiders playing defense against the run for most of the game. We needed to win the game by passing the ball.

More teams are gonna do this to us so we better get used to it. Bowe continues to hurt us by dropping easy catches. I thought Cassel played like an average quarterback yesterday. As I've said before, Cassel needs to improve if we hope to get better.

[OPLookn]

I'm simply making an observation based on what I got to see of the game...I had to dvr it and since it started late I missed the 4th qtr and OT...BAH!! Anyway, Cassel drove me NUTS in the 1st/2nd qtr with his fade away passes. He needs to stand there and put his weight into those passes. If he'd done that the drive where we get the field goal becomes a possible touchdown for Bowe. The defender wouldn't have had the time to close the space and Bowe has the chance to catch that pass (14-0 instead of 10-0). Then at the end of the half Cassel is fading away and throws the pick in the end zone instead of standing there and putting his weight into it. Yes there was a defender coming at him but guess what it's the NFL, stand in there and throw a freakin strike!

I won't even venture to guess if it would have been a completion but it was at Moeaki and he's a big target. My guess is if he stands in there at worst it's dropped or thrown away but it's not an interception as the guy 2 yards in front of Moeaki doesn't catch the lobbed up ball.. Field goal at least (17-0 instead of 10-0) at half...at least. I know this loss wasn't all Cassel's fault I'm simply saying this fading away passing junk has GOT to stop!

[SIC J]

I'm simply making an observation based on what I got to see of the game...I had to dvr it and since it started late I missed the 4th qtr and OT...BAH!! Anyway, Cassel drove me NUTS in the 1st/2nd qtr with his fade away passes. He needs to stand there and put his weight into those passes. If he'd done that the drive where we get the field goal becomes a possible touchdown for Bowe. The defender wouldn't have had the time to close the space and Bowe has the chance to catch that pass (14-0 instead of 10-0). Then at the end of the half Cassel is fading away and throws the pick in the end zone instead of standing there and putting his weight into it. Yes there was a defender coming at him but guess what it's the NFL, stand in there and throw a freakin strike!

I won't even venture to guess if it would have been a completion but it was at Moeaki and he's a big target. My guess is if he stands in there at worst it's dropped or thrown away but it's not an interception as the guy 2 yards in front of Moeaki doesn't catch the lobbed up ball.. Field goal at least (17-0 instead of 10-0) at half...at least. I know this loss wasn't all Cassel's fault I'm simply saying this fading away passing junk has GOT to stop!

Still could've been picked off. Don't remember who the other receiver was but he ran to the same spot and brought the extra defender over there. I think it was Bowe. They ran to the same spot. And my guess, cuz Bowe ran the wrong route several times in this game, he was the one that should've never been over there in the first place.

[Hayvern]

With the Raiders playing defense against the run for most of the game. We needed to win the game by passing the ball.

More teams are gonna do this to us so we better get used to it. Bowe continues to hurt us by dropping easy catches. I thought Cassel played like an average quarterback yesterday. As I've said before, Cassel needs to improve if we hope to get better.

This is the key that I have been saying for a long time. Cassel is not the guy we can count on to get us a win in a clutch situation. We needed him to win the game for us yesterday and he was not up to it.

Third down conversions were terrible, and again, more often than not his throws and timing were way off.

I also see way too much confusion. Is Bowe just stupid? I mean he clearly blew a route to the end zone yesterday, Cassel put the ball where he thought Bowe should be and he was not there, and then you see Bowe shaking his head and pointing to himself like he forgot the play.

These guys, Cassel, Bowe, and Chambers are not on the same page, clearly there is something wrong that needs to get corrected.

The disagreement I have here is whether Cassel is an average QB. I don't think he has reached that point yet.

[brdempsey69]

The bottom line is Cassel is getting paid franchise QB-type money, but he is not a franchise caliber QB -- plain and simple.

Go watch Aaron Rodgers of GB -- now that's a franchise caliber QB. There's no comparison between Rodgers and Cassel. The Chiefs sorely need a QB that plays like Rodgers does & if they had one, they'd be either 8-0 or 7-1 at this point in the season.

[nigeriannightmare]

The bottom line is Cassel is getting paid franchise QB-type money, but he is not a franchise caliber QB -- plain and simple.

Go watch Aaron Rodgers of GB -- now that's a franchise caliber QB. There's no comparison between Rodgers and Cassel. The Chiefs sorely need a QB that plays like Rodgers does & if they had one, they'd be either 8-0 or 7-1 at this point in the season.


Please tell me your are not comparing our wider receiver corps to that of the Packers. Jennings or Diver would both be number 1's in kc and they still have 3 others.

[brdempsey69]

Please tell me your are not comparing our wider receiver corps to that of the Packers. Jennings or Diver would both be number 1's in kc and they still have 3 others.

No, just simply making a QB comparison. I never said anything about the WR's and there is nothing in my post to suggest otherwise.

[nigeriannightmare]

No, just simply making a QB comparison. I never said anything about the WR's and there is nothing in my post to suggest otherwise.

Give aaron rodgers d-bowe and chris chambers and see whast his numbers are, our receivers get little to no separation when running routes.

Completely different situations and not a very good comparison. To compare one qb to another is difficult because all teams, conferences, divisions are a little different.

Pretty sure Aaron Rodgers was a first round draft pick to boot.

[brdempsey69]

Give aaron rodgers d-bowe and chris chambers and see whast his numbers are, our receivers get little to no separation when running routes.

Completely different situations and not a very good comparison. To compare one qb to another is difficult because all teams, conferences, divisions are a little different.

Pretty sure Aaron Rodgers was a first round draft pick to boot.

I think it is a good comparison. Rodgers, when given time, does a better job of reading defenses & throwing the ball more accurately, plus he's got a better arm & better pocket presence. I've seen Cassel miss wide open receivers too often this season, whereas Rodgers 9 times out of 10, would've put it right on the money. And do consider that lame duck that Cassel threw at the end of the 1st half that got tipped & picked and there was no pressure on him. No way does Rodgers make a lame-duck throw like that.

I do agree that if Bowe were in GB and repeatedly dropping the ball the way he has in KC, he'd be getting a seat on the bench.

Notwithstanding, I stand by what I said earlier & it doesn't have anything to do with conferences, divisions, receivers, etc. Rodgers is the better QB -- period. And it doesn't matter what round he was drafted in. Joe Montana was drafted in the 3rd round. Cassel is not in the same class as Rodgers & that's the bottom line.

[Ryfo18]

I think it is a good comparison. Rodgers, when given time, does a better job of reading defenses & throwing the ball more accurately, plus he's got a better arm & better pocket presence. I've seen Cassel miss wide open receivers too often this season, whereas Rodgers 9 times out of 10, would've put it right on the money. And do consider that lame duck that Cassel threw at the end of the 1st half that got tipped & picked and there was no pressure on him. No way does Rodgers make a lame-duck throw like that.

I do agree that if Bowe were in GB and repeatedly dropping the ball the way he has in KC, he'd be getting a seat on the bench.

Notwithstanding, I stand by what I said earlier & it doesn't have anything to do with conferences, divisions, receivers, etc. Rodgers is the better QB -- period. And it doesn't matter what round he was drafted in. Joe Montana was drafted in the 3rd round. Cassel is not in the same class as Rodgers & that's the bottom line.

It's obvious that Rodgers is better. Unfortunately Rodgers isn't available for us to trade for or pick up in FA, so what's the point?

What's your solution? Do we go after a FA quaterback next offseason? Here's who's available:

Derek Anderson - Browns
Brett Basanez - Bears
Kerry Collins - Titans
Todd Collins - Redskins
Trent Edwards - Bills
Brian Griese - Bears
Matt Hasslebeck - Seahawks
Shaun Hill - 49ers
Kevin Kolb - Eagles
Byron Leftwich - Buccaneers
J.T. O'Sullivan - Bengals
Chris Simms - Broncos
Drew Stanton - Lions
Tyler Thigpen - Chiefs
Michael Vick - Eagles
Bill Volek - Chargers
Seneca Wallace - Seahawks

Or do we draft one and develop him (like we are currently doing with Cassel)? You know if we do draft one he's most likely not going to come in and be better than Cassel. I'm encouraged by Cassel's progress. He's not perfect, but we could be a lot worse off. And simply, there aren't any options available to us. So you can sit here and dream that we get Aaron Rodgers (or any other franchise QB), but it's not going to happen.

[brdempsey69]

It's obvious that Rodgers is better. Unfortunately Rodgers isn't available for us to trade for or pick up in FA, so what's the point?

What's your solution? Do we go after a FA quaterback next offseason? Here's who's available:

Derek Anderson - Browns
Brett Basanez - Bears
Kerry Collins - Titans
Todd Collins - Redskins
Trent Edwards - Bills
Brian Griese - Bears
Matt Hasslebeck - Seahawks
Shaun Hill - 49ers
Kevin Kolb - Eagles
Byron Leftwich - Buccaneers
J.T. O'Sullivan - Bengals
Chris Simms - Broncos
Drew Stanton - Lions
Tyler Thigpen - Chiefs
Michael Vick - Eagles
Bill Volek - Chargers
Seneca Wallace - Seahawks

Or do we draft one and develop him (like we are currently doing with Cassel)? You know if we do draft one he's most likely not going to come in and be better than Cassel. I'm encouraged by Cassel's progress. He's not perfect, but we could be a lot worse off. And simply, there aren't any options available to us. So you can sit here and dream that we get Aaron Rodgers (or any other franchise QB), but it's not going to happen.

Never said the Chiefs were going to get Rodgers or that we should go after a replacement for Cassel -- the Chiefs are stuck with him for the time being due to the large contract that they shelled out to him. I said that he's being paid Franchise QB type money and that he's not a Franchise QB -- you yourself said he's a developmental type. And you can dream of Cassel taking the Chiefs to the Super Bowl, but guess what? Not going to happen.

[Ryfo18]

Never said the Chiefs were going to get Rodgers or that we should go after a replacement for Cassel -- the Chiefs are stuck with him for the time being due to the large contract that they shelled out to him. I said that he's being paid Franchise QB type money and that he's not a Franchise QB -- you yourself said he's a developmental type. And you can dream of Cassel taking the Chiefs to the Super Bowl, but guess what? Not going to happen.

That's absolutely incorrect. Brady won a Super Bowl with numbers very comparable to Cassel's. But I guess we'll just see. I'm not getting my hopes up, yesterday's game had plenty of other issues that would prevent our team from making a super bowl.

[Ryfo18]

Brady's 2001 Super Bowl Stats in the regular season:

Att/Cmp: 264/413
Yards: 2843
Comp Pct: 63.9%
TD: 18
INT: 12
Sacks: 41
Y/A: 6.9

Cassel is on pace for this season:

Att/Cmp: 250/428
Yards: 2824
Comp Pct: 58.4%
TD: 24
INT: 8
Sacks: 22
Y/A 6.6

The only alarming stat is completion percentage, which I argue would go up if we added another quality WR, something that can be done in the offseason. But I guess Brady never improved on his numbers after that season and New England gave up on him...right?

[SIC J]

I don't think replacing Cassel is going to solve the issue. Bring in a GOOD WR or two and it makes a drastic change in the passing game. No team fears Bowe and Chambers, period!

[brdempsey69]

That's absolutely incorrect. Brady won a Super Bowl with numbers very comparable to Cassel's. But I guess we'll just see. I'm not getting my hopes up, yesterday's game had plenty of other issues that would prevent our team from making a super bowl.

Re-examine the statement that you just made. BRADY WON A SUPER BOWL -- and got NE to three more which he won two of. Did Cassel get NE there? Nope, not even with the good numbers he had there in 2008 & with the receiver core that he had.

As for the statement "But I guess Brady never improved on his numbers after that season and New England gave up on him...right?" -- totally ridiculous. You are not reading correctly into what I've been saying. I said Cassel is getting paid franchise QB type money, but has not proven that he is a Franchise QB and therefore he shouldn't be getting paid as such. Many think he's a career backup QB. I think he can be good to a point with a good supporting cast, but he can't carry a team the way Brady did in 2001 or Joe Montana did in 1981.

[Ryfo18]

Re-examine the statement that you just made. BRADY WON A SUPER BOWL -- and got NE to three more which he won two of. Did Cassel get NE there? Nope, not even with the good numbers he had there in 2008 & with the receiver core that he had.

As for the statement "But I guess Brady never improved on his numbers after that season and New England gave up on him...right?" -- totally ridiculous. You are not reading correctly into what I've been saying. I said Cassel is getting paid franchise QB type money, but has not proven that he is a Franchise QB and therefore he shouldn't be getting paid as such. Many think he's a career backup QB. I think he can be good to a point with a good supporting cast, but he can't carry a team the way Brady did in 2001 or Joe Montana did in 1981.

Actually, Cassel led the 2008 Patriots to an 11-5 record (same as the 2001 Patriots). He just got unlucky that 11-5 didn't make the playoffs. Who's to say they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl that year had they made it in?

I could care less what he gets paid. Just pointing out that up to this point, Cassel is playing to a level right at the level Brady played at in 2001 (actually better from a TD/INT standpoint). How can you deny that?

[brdempsey69]

Actually, Cassel led the 2008 Patriots to an 11-5 record (same as the 2001 Patriots). He just got unlucky that 11-5 didn't make the playoffs. Who's to say they wouldn't have won the Super Bowl that year had they made it in?

I could care less what he gets paid. Just pointing out that up to this point, Cassel is playing to a level right at the level Brady played at in 2001. How can you deny that?

That's quite easy to deny given that your statement is based on statistics alone. The other intangibles simply are not there. Cassel does not throw the ball as well as Brady, doesn't have his pocket presence or overall leadership & do not kid yourself into thinking that he does.

[Ryfo18]

That's quite easy to deny given that your statement is based on statistics alone. The other intangibles simply are not there. Cassel does not throw the ball as well as Brady, doesn't have his pocket presence or overall leadership & do not kid yourself into thinking that he does.

Haha, I provide statistics, you provide your own blind logic. Whatever works for you bro.

Your logic basically would say this...If Brady had been unlucky like Cassel and not made the playoffs in 2001, they should have found another option at quarterback, because he was basically worthless only managing an 11-5 record.

Cassel has been just as effective as the 2001 version of Brady. You can deny it all you want, but it's true and right in front of you. Your original statement was that Cassel could not win a Super Bowl. I showed you a quarterback who was more or less just as effective (who also threw for less touchdown passes and had less support in the run game) that was able to do it.

[chief31]

So when Bowe drops one pass he loses the game for us, but when Cassel throws a bad passes all game, especially on 3rd downs, its not his fault? It works both ways you know. The Game could have been over alot sooner had Cassel played better, but you dont get that because that would mean admitting that Cassel made mistakes. You keep blaming the entire game on that one drop.

You keep saying he succeeded, but he was 2-15 on third down! How is that success? I cant believe we went 2-15 on 3rd downs and your blaming this entire thing on Bowe? Im not just blaming Cassel, everyone contibuted to this loss, I dont know how you couldnt see that, but for you to sit here and say Cassel played well today, and call me biased is funny. lol Your the one saying he gets zero blame for this loss with those awful 3rd down numbers an im the biased one?

Do me a favor?

Show me where I ..."Your the one saying he gets zero blame for this loss"
did that?

Thanks.

So, he was 2-15 on 3rd down? That's terrible!!!! Maybe he is the bane of the planet afterall!

Wait....

The running game was 0-4 on third down, including 0-3 on 3rd & 1.

You going to continue to give all that credit to Cassel? Or are you willing to come back to reality and see that Cassel was actually 3-9 passing, sacked once, and converted on a penalty, on 3rd down, with one TD?

Not that that is good. But I now have to spend all kinds of time checking on your numbers, because I can't trust you to be accurate with them.

But no. You aren't the biased one, crediting Cassel with incompletions for run plays. No way. :D

Seriously though. Cassel has played very well this season, and some are just out to harp on one aspect that he hasn't turned around yet. Even citing that as reason to believe that Cassel can never get to a Super Bowl.




No, just simply making a QB comparison. I never said anything about the WR's and there is nothing in my post to suggest otherwise.

Right. Because the quality of WRs would never have anything to do with how well a QB plays.

How could anyone ever come to such a conclusion?




Never said the Chiefs were going to get Rodgers or that we should go after a replacement for Cassel -- the Chiefs are stuck with him for the time being due to the large contract that they shelled out to him. I said that he's being paid Franchise QB type money and that he's not a Franchise QB -- you yourself said he's a developmental type. And you can dream of Cassel taking the Chiefs to the Super Bowl, but guess what? Not going to happen.

I think Aaron Rogers is a great QB. But, just for the sake of argument, how many Super Bowls has he played in?

I only ask because you predict that Cassel will never get The Chiefs to one.

As if a non-elite QB could never go to a Super Bowl.

Hey, you ever heard of Ben Roethlisberger? Eli Manning? Rex grossman? Ben Roethlisberger, again? Jake Delhomme? Tom Brady? Brad Johnson? Tom Brady... again? Trent Dilfer? Kerry Collins? Steve Mcnair?

Almost every single Super Bowl has a second-tier QB playing in it.

But, to this point, Cassel has gained numbers that would look just fine in the career of Joe Montana.

Too bad The Niners weren't so wise as to be able to determine, halway through a season in an offense, that he would never make it to The Super Bowl. Or The Cowboys with Troy Aikman. Or any team with any QB... ever.

I know. Cassel to Montana isn't a fair comparison, at all.

I mean Montana didn't have a running game gobbling up the yardage stats like Cassel does. And Montana had to deal with that Jerry Rice guy at WR for most of his career. :D

Yes. Comparing Cassel to Montana, or Aikman is an exaggeration.

But, while he is struggling to overcome some 3rd down obstacles, he is producing at a level that is leagues better than he was last season.

All while the running game limits his opportunities, Bowe drops alot of very big passes, the o-line remains unstable, the play-calling is often poor, and he is through half a season in a new offense.

He has not been amazing. But he has been amazing, by comparison to what he was like last season. And pretty good overall.

To point the finger at Cassel, while Bowe is dropping game-winners and TDs, just seems misguided to me.

[Ryfo18]

I think Aaron Rogers is a great QB. But, just for the sake of argument, how many Super Bowls has he played in?

Better yet, how many playoff games has Aaron Rodgers won?

[chief31]

As for the statement "But I guess Brady never improved on his numbers after that season and New England gave up on him...right?" -- totally ridiculous. You are not reading correctly into what I've been saying. I said Cassel is getting paid franchise QB type money, but has not proven that he is a Franchise QB and therefore he shouldn't be getting paid as such.

True. I have seen you saying that.

But...

Did you let someone else take over the keyboard when you said this....


And you can dream of Cassel taking the Chiefs to the Super Bowl, but guess what? Not going to happen.

???

If you nobody else took the keyboard from you, then I think Ryfo was definitely reading correctly into what you are saying.

[CapitalT]

Brady's 2001 Super Bowl Stats in the regular season:

Att/Cmp: 264/413
Yards: 2843
Comp Pct: 63.9%
TD: 18
INT: 12
Sacks: 41
Y/A: 6.9

Cassel is on pace for this season:

Att/Cmp: 250/428
Yards: 2824
Comp Pct: 58.4%
TD: 24
INT: 8
Sacks: 22
Y/A 6.6

The only alarming stat is completion percentage, which I argue would go up if we added another quality WR, something that can be done in the offseason. But I guess Brady never improved on his numbers after that season and New England gave up on him...right?

Stop with the Brady comparisons. That was Brady's first full season. He only started 14 games that year and he only played in 15 and ... it was his worst year passing.

We are currently ranked 29th in the league in passing.

[Ryfo18]

Stop with the Brady comparisons. That was Brady's first full season. He only started 14 games that year and he only played in 15 and ... it was his worst year passing.

We are currently ranked 29th in the league in passing.

Why do I need to stop? You don't think it's a valid comparison? 2001 wa Brady's first season with Weis, 2010 is Cassel's first full season with Weis. So what if we're 29th in the league in passing? We're also 30th in attempts. The Chiefs boast the league's best rushing offense in the league (still). I'm not shocked that the passing game isn't tops in stats. Everyone is ready to write off Cassel (who's quarterbacked us to the top of the AFC West). I just find it humorous b/c you fail to acknowledge all of the other failures that have occurred in the teams 3 losses.

If we get rid of Cassel, we start at this exact same point (or worse) at QB next season. I already showed you the crappy FA options available, a rookie isn't going to come in here and outplay him. Remember how bad Derrick Johnson was the last few years? Guess what, he improved his game! Shocking that an NFL player would do something like that!

[wilqb16]

My take on Cassel is that he is not a bad QB. Is he in the class of Brady or Manning, at this point, no. But we are going to be doing a lot of shopping if we are going to only look for a guy in that class.

Interestingly, Cassel led the NFL with a 108.9 QB rating on 3rd down in his first full season in New England. So he is capable.

I think our problem more our receivers than Cassel. Cassel is actually convering a respectable (and 10th ranked) 53.3 on 3rd downs from 3 to 7 yards. However, he is only 24% on 3rd downs of 8+ yards. To me this shows some of the problem is the receivers. When team know we have to pass we can't rely on play action and deception to get them open. Note too that our worst two games for 3rd down percentage have been since McCluster went down. Coincidence? I think not.

Lets face it, Weis think so little of our wideouts that - in case anyone noticed - Moeaki spent much of the game lining up as a WR (and a split end at that), particularly on 3rd down. Then we had two sure fire drops on 3rd down that would have been conversions (the one by Bowe and one by Moeaki).

[Ryfo18]

One more interesting tidbit I found. Two quarterbacks. One quarterback's numbers are in 4 games since Randy Moss was traded away from his team (that would be Tom Brady). The other quarterback is Matt Cassel during that same span of 4 games. Guess who is who:

Quarterback 1

CMP/ATT: 81/139
CMP %: 58.3%
YDS: 915
Y/A: 6.6
TD: 5
INT: 2
Rating: 84.1


Quarterback 2
CMP/ATT: 67/108
CMP%: 62%
YDS: 762
Y/A: 7.1
TD: 8
INT: 1
Rating: 104.0


I think you know where I'm going with this. Which quarterback would you look to replace first? All I'm saying, give Cassel another WR in the offseason. Don't ditch him, it'd be foolish to start over again at the QB position.

[chief31]

Quarterback 1

CMP/ATT: 81/139
CMP %: 58.3%
YDS: 915
Y/A: 6.6
TD: 5
INT: 2
Rating: 84.1


Quarterback 2
CMP/ATT: 67/108
CMP%: 62%
YDS: 762
Y/A: 7.1
TD: 8
INT: 1
Rating: 104.0



Well, since we all know that QB 2 is horrible and needs to be replaced, I think that it is completely obvious that QB 1 is the worst player to ever exist, and should probably be beaten with garden hoses and wire hangers until he agrees to never play the game again.

:lol:

[CapitalT]

Why do I need to stop? You don't think it's a valid comparison? 2001 wa Brady's first season with Weis, 2010 is Cassel's first full season with Weis. So what if we're 29th in the league in passing? We're also 30th in attempts. The Chiefs boast the league's best rushing offense in the league (still). I'm not shocked that the passing game isn't tops in stats. Everyone is ready to write off Cassel (who's quarterbacked us to the top of the AFC West). I just find it humorous b/c you fail to acknowledge all of the other failures that have occurred in the teams 3 losses.

If we get rid of Cassel, we start at this exact same point (or worse) at QB next season. I already showed you the crappy FA options available, a rookie isn't going to come in here and outplay him. Remember how bad Derrick Johnson was the last few years? Guess what, he improved his game! Shocking that an NFL player would do something like that!

Unbelievable - Explaining won't matter since you are so wildly in love with Cassel that all reason has left you but I will anyway.

YES - it's a terrible comparison. First, as I mentioned before Brady only started 14 games that year. So your stat extrapolation doesn't work. If you need further help take a remedial math class.

Second - It was Brady's first chance as a starting QB. Just in case you don't realize the significance of experience as a starting QB, generally speaking, it helps your performance. This is definitely not Cassel's first chance.

If you look at my earlier post, you'll see that I thought Cassel had an average game ... I still do. I have not advocated for getting rid of Cassel (we have no viable options) Also, I have laid a lot more blame at Bowe's doorstep than I have Cassel's. BTW - I thought benching DJ was a terrible idea, I didn't think he was bad ... I thought he was good and it was a coaching mistake to sit him down.

All I tried to point out was, when you make comparisons to Brady you ruin your credibility. Cassel may be better than Brady someday - maybe even this season. Right now he's not even close.

You know there are other posts in the forum right? This one just happens to be about Cassel. People may be criticising other players in those forums - go check it out.

[Connie Jo]

My take on Cassel is that he is not a bad QB. Is he in the class of Brady or Manning, at this point, no. But we are going to be doing a lot of shopping if we are going to only look for a guy in that class.

Interestingly, Cassel led the NFL with a 108.9 QB rating on 3rd down in his first full season in New England. So he is capable.

I think our problem more our receivers than Cassel. Cassel is actually convering a respectable (and 10th ranked) 53.3 on 3rd downs from 3 to 7 yards. However, he is only 24% on 3rd downs of 8+ yards. To me this shows some of the problem is the receivers. When team know we have to pass we can't rely on play action and deception to get them open. Note too that our worst two games for 3rd down percentage have been since McCluster went down. Coincidence? I think not.

Lets face it, Weis think so little of our wideouts that - in case anyone noticed - Moeaki spent much of the game lining up as a WR (and a split end at that), particularly on 3rd down. Then we had two sure fire drops on 3rd down that would have been conversions (the one by Bowe and one by Moeaki).

First, I want to clarify that I'm not giving up on Cassel, however, the pass in particular thrown to Bowe was short & low. Bowe had to drop to his knees to attempt making the catch. Yes, it was catchable, and Bowe should've caught it...but it was as much Cassels fault as Bowes...that one is 50/50. I remember Moeaki missing one too, but can't remember the specifics of the ball thrown like I do with the one thrown to Bowe for a 3rd down conversion.

[pbatrucker]

First, I want to clarify that I'm not giving up on Cassel, however, the pass in particular thrown to Bowe was short & low. Bowe had to drop to his knees to attempt making the catch. Yes, it was catchable, and Bowe should've caught it...but it was as much Cassels fault as Bowes...that one is 50/50. I remember Moeaki missing one too, but can't remember the specifics of the ball thrown like I do with the one thrown to Bowe for a 3rd down conversion.
But that pass was right were it had to be thrown. Were only Bowe could have caught it. That was a good toss by Cassel.

[Ryfo18]

Unbelievable - Explaining won't matter since you are so wildly in love with Cassel that all reason has left you but I will anyway.

YES - it's a terrible comparison. First, as I mentioned before Brady only started 14 games that year. So your stat extrapolation doesn't work. If you need further help take a remedial math class.

Second - It was Brady's first chance as a starting QB. Just in case you don't realize the significance of experience as a starting QB, generally speaking, it helps your performance. This is definitely not Cassel's first chance.

If you look at my earlier post, you'll see that I thought Cassel had an average game ... I still do. I have not advocated for getting rid of Cassel (we have no viable options) Also, I have laid a lot more blame at Bowe's doorstep than I have Cassel's. BTW - I thought benching DJ was a terrible idea, I didn't think he was bad ... I thought he was good and it was a coaching mistake to sit him down.

All I tried to point out was, when you make comparisons to Brady you ruin your credibility. Cassel may be better than Brady someday - maybe even this season. Right now he's not even close.

You know there are other posts in the forum right? This one just happens to be about Cassel. People may be criticising other players in those forums - go check it out.

Fine, I went back and gave Brady credit for 16 games (simply added two more games on for him):

CMP/ATT: 302/472
CMP%: 63.9%
Yards: 3249
TDs: 21
TD%: 4.4%
INT: 14
INT%: 2.9%
Y/A: 6.9
Rating: 86.5
Sacks: 47
SK%: 9%


Cassel's again:

CMP/ATT: 250/428
CMP%: 58.4% (Keep in mind that up to this point if Bowe catches 4 of his drops, he's at 60%)
Yards: 2824
TDs: 24
TD%: 5.6%
INT: 8
INT%: 1.9%
Y/A: 6.6
Rating: 89.2
Sacks: 22
SK%: 4.9%

I don't see why exactly I lose credibility comparing him to Brady. It's more you that don't want to let this thought enter your head despite everything I've shown you. And once again, this is comparing their first seasons with Weis as the Offensive Coordinator.

But since you want to discount this as Brady's First full season, here's the stats on Brady up until Moss came along and his TD numbers inflated to 50 that year (keep in mind Brady has never thrown for over 30 TDs in a season except for that year).

2002
CMP/ATT: 373/601
CMP%: 62.1%
Yards: 3764
TDs: 28
TD%: 4.7%
INT: 14
INT%: 2.3%
Y/A: 6.3
Rating: 85.7
Sacks: 31
SK%: 4.9%

2003
CMP/ATT: 317/527
CMP%: 60.2%
Yards: 3620
TDs: 23
TD%: 4.4%
INT: 12
INT%: 2.3%
Y/A: 6.9
Rating: 85.9
Sacks: 32
SK%: 5.7%

2004
CMP/ATT: 288/474
CMP%: 60.8%
Yards: 3692
TDs: 28
TD%: 5.9%
INT: 14
INT%: 3%
Y/A: 7.8
Rating: 92.6
Sacks: 26
SK%: 5.2%

2005
CMP/ATT: 334/530
CMP%: 63%
Yards: 4110
TDs: 26
TD%: 4.9%
INT: 14
INT%: 2.6%
Y/A: 7.8
Rating: 92.3
Sacks: 26
SK%: 4.7%

2006
CMP/ATT: 319/516
CMP%: 61.8%
Yards: 3529
TDs: 24
TD%: 4.7%
INT: 12
INT%: 2.3%
Y/A: 6.8
Rating: 87.9
Sacks: 26
SK%: 4.8%

Now as I recall, the original argument was that Cassel could not win a Super Bowl. I've just showed you Brady's numbers in his first 6 seasons as a starter (he won 3 Super Bowls). Based on Cassel's sample size of 8 games this year, he wins in TDs per attempt, INTs per attempt, and QB rating 4 out of the 6 years.

I suppose I could extrapolate Brady's numbers out through the end of this year too:

2010
CMP/ATT: 332/422
CMP%: 63.6%
Yards: 3652
TDs: 14
TD%: 5.4%
INT: 8
INT%: 1.5%
Y/A: 7.0
Rating: 95.7
Sacks: 26
SK%: 4.7%

Now keep in mind that Brady's stats also include him having Moss available for 4 games this year (a first ballot HOFer in my opinion). I already showed you the comparison where Cassel has been statistically better since Moss left.

I'm still not sure how I've lost any credibility by comparing him to Brady, because the numbers speak for themselves. Brady does have 3 Super Bowl championships on Cassel, but statistically Matt is just as effective of a passer.

Get Cassel one more solid WR and watch him flourish.

[SIC J]

First, I want to clarify that I'm not giving up on Cassel, however, the pass in particular thrown to Bowe was short & low. Bowe had to drop to his knees to attempt making the catch. Yes, it was catchable, and Bowe should've caught it...but it was as much Cassels fault as Bowes...that one is 50/50. I remember Moeaki missing one too, but can't remember the specifics of the ball thrown like I do with the one thrown to Bowe for a 3rd down conversion.

If Bowe would have tried to catch the ball with his HANDS and not his body, he probably would have caught it.

[wilqb16]

I remember Moeaki missing one too, but can't remember the specifics of the ball thrown like I do with the one thrown to Bowe for a 3rd down conversion.

The Moeaki one was pretty bad. It was a WR screen (Moeaki was lined up as the split end) and it was perfectly thrown, he went to catch it in his hands and just dropped it. There was a ton of dirt in front of him, too. It was a 3rd and short and he would have gotten the first easily and maybe even scored. It would up being a key play because it was right before the FG turned pooch kick.

My point is that it isn't fair to keep putting things on Cassel. I hear things like Cassel was 4/15 on 3rd down conversions. When did this become an individual sport? Cassel can do everything right and things can work out poorly. Giving Cassel all the blame makes no more sense than trying to give him all the credit when things go well.

[Ryfo18]

The Moeaki one was pretty bad. It was a WR screen (Moeaki was lined up as the split end) and it was perfectly thrown, he went to catch it in his hands and just dropped it. There was a ton of dirt in front of him, too. It was a 3rd and short and he would have gotten the first easily and maybe even scored. It would up being a key play because it was right before the FG turned pooch kick.

My point is that it isn't fair to keep putting things on Cassel. I hear things like Cassel was 4/15 on 3rd down conversions. When did this become an individual sport? Cassel can do everything right and things can work out poorly. Giving Cassel all the blame makes no more sense than trying to give him all the credit when things go well.

It's because quarterback is the most visible position. It's easy to pin it all on him. You're right though, everyone has to do their part for the team to be successful.

[figcrostic]

If Bowe would have tried to catch the ball with his HANDS and not his body, he probably would have caught it.

Geez your right! Bowe has been playing football at a high level his whole life, was a stud WR at LSU and set TD records, was in contention for a rookie of the year award getting beaten out only by Adrian Peterson that year he led all rookie WR's in yards and TD's, but he sucks and you sir can change all that by just telling him to "Caught the ball with his hands" this whole time he has been catching the ball wrong.:yahoo: :yahoo: :mooning:

[SIC J]

Geez your right! Bowe has been playing football at a high level his whole life, was a stud WR at LSU and set TD records, was in contention for a rookie of the year award getting beaten out only by Adrian Peterson that year he led all rookie WR's in yards and TD's, but he sucks and you sir can change all that by just telling him to "Caught the ball with his hands" this whole time he has been catching the ball wrong.:yahoo: :yahoo: :mooning:

You lack intelligence and the inability to READ.

[Chiefster]

First, I want to clarify that I'm not giving up on Cassel, however, the pass in particular thrown to Bowe was short & low. Bowe had to drop to his knees to attempt making the catch. Yes, it was catchable, and Bowe should've caught it...but it was as much Cassels fault as Bowes...that one is 50/50. I remember Moeaki missing one too, but can't remember the specifics of the ball thrown like I do with the one thrown to Bowe for a 3rd down conversion.

...Could you teach my wife how to talk football? I've tried but it just doesn't take. :bananen_smilies046: :D

[CapitalT]

Fine, I went back and gave Brady credit for 16 games (simply added two more games on for him):

CMP/ATT: 302/472
CMP%: 63.9%
Yards: 3249
TDs: 21
TD%: 4.4%
INT: 14
INT%: 2.9%
Y/A: 6.9
Rating: 86.5
Sacks: 47
SK%: 9%


Cassel's again:

CMP/ATT: 250/428
CMP%: 58.4% (Keep in mind that up to this point if Bowe catches 4 of his drops, he's at 60%)
Yards: 2824
TDs: 24
TD%: 5.6%
INT: 8
INT%: 1.9%
Y/A: 6.6
Rating: 89.2
Sacks: 22
SK%: 4.9%

I don't see why exactly I lose credibility comparing him to Brady. It's more you that don't want to let this thought enter your head despite everything I've shown you. And once again, this is comparing their first seasons with Weis as the Offensive Coordinator.

But since you want to discount this as Brady's First full season, here's the stats on Brady up until Moss came along and his TD numbers inflated to 50 that year (keep in mind Brady has never thrown for over 30 TDs in a season except for that year).

2002
CMP/ATT: 373/601
CMP%: 62.1%
Yards: 3764
TDs: 28
TD%: 4.7%
INT: 14
INT%: 2.3%
Y/A: 6.3
Rating: 85.7
Sacks: 31
SK%: 4.9%

2003
CMP/ATT: 317/527
CMP%: 60.2%
Yards: 3620
TDs: 23
TD%: 4.4%
INT: 12
INT%: 2.3%
Y/A: 6.9
Rating: 85.9
Sacks: 32
SK%: 5.7%

2004
CMP/ATT: 288/474
CMP%: 60.8%
Yards: 3692
TDs: 28
TD%: 5.9%
INT: 14
INT%: 3%
Y/A: 7.8
Rating: 92.6
Sacks: 26
SK%: 5.2%

2005
CMP/ATT: 334/530
CMP%: 63%
Yards: 4110
TDs: 26
TD%: 4.9%
INT: 14
INT%: 2.6%
Y/A: 7.8
Rating: 92.3
Sacks: 26
SK%: 4.7%

2006
CMP/ATT: 319/516
CMP%: 61.8%
Yards: 3529
TDs: 24
TD%: 4.7%
INT: 12
INT%: 2.3%
Y/A: 6.8
Rating: 87.9
Sacks: 26
SK%: 4.8%

Now as I recall, the original argument was that Cassel could not win a Super Bowl. I've just showed you Brady's numbers in his first 6 seasons as a starter (he won 3 Super Bowls). Based on Cassel's sample size of 8 games this year, he wins in TDs per attempt, INTs per attempt, and QB rating 4 out of the 6 years.

I suppose I could extrapolate Brady's numbers out through the end of this year too:

2010
CMP/ATT: 332/422
CMP%: 63.6%
Yards: 3652
TDs: 14
TD%: 5.4%
INT: 8
INT%: 1.5%
Y/A: 7.0
Rating: 95.7
Sacks: 26
SK%: 4.7%

Now keep in mind that Brady's stats also include him having Moss available for 4 games this year (a first ballot HOFer in my opinion). I already showed you the comparison where Cassel has been statistically better since Moss left.

I'm still not sure how I've lost any credibility by comparing him to Brady, because the numbers speak for themselves. Brady does have 3 Super Bowl championships on Cassel, but statistically Matt is just as effective of a passer.

Get Cassel one more solid WR and watch him flourish.

Do you even watch the games?

[Ryfo18]

Do you even watch the games?

Yes. Do you study other quarterbacks or do you just go by what you see from Cassel and assume that is the definition of a quarterback that is not good?

I know the throws you saw from Cassel that were inaccurate that you're basing your judgement on. Those are common from just about every quarterback in every game. If your idea of a franchise QB is one that makes every throw in every game with no margin for error, well good luck finding one.

The fact of the matter is that Brady is a product of the system, the same system that Cassel stepped into and went 11-5 with. The same system the Chiefs are implementing right now. It will come with time (it's already starting to form actually).

[CapitalT]

Yes. Do you study other quarterbacks or do you just go by what you see from Cassel and assume that is the definition of a quarterback that is not good?

I know the throws you saw from Cassel that were inaccurate that you're basing your judgement on. Those are common from just about every quarterback in every game. If your idea of a franchise QB is one that makes every throw in every game with no margin for error, well good luck finding one.

The fact of the matter is that Brady is a product of the system, the same system that Cassel stepped into and went 11-5 with. The same system the Chiefs are implementing right now. It will come with time (it's already starting to form actually).

You're right - Brady isn't all that good. He's just a product of the system.

[Coach]

I don't think replacing Cassel is going to solve the issue. Bring in a GOOD WR or two and it makes a drastic change in the passing game. No team fears Bowe and Chambers, period!

This!!:postpimp4ib:


I am a Cassel fan mainly because of his toughness. I will agree that Cassel needs to improve his accuracy.

BUT, you have to understand that this is a ball control offense. This teams identity is to run the ball, win the turnover battle, and eliminate penalties. If you accomplish those three things, your odds of winning the football game are extremely high. During the last offseason, Haley must have had someone do statistical analysis of football games. This would explain his fasciniation with going for it on 4th down.

Cassel is putting the ball where only his receivers can catch it most of the time. Sometimes he throws beyond where they can catch it. He is not taking chances with the football. My guess is that these are strict marching orders from Haley/Weis. 3rd down efficiciency needs to improve, but I'd argue equally big parts of our 3rd down struggles are playcalling and dropped passes like the one that cost us this game against the Raiders.

[SIC J]

This!!:postpimp4ib:


I am a Cassel fan mainly because of his toughness. I will agree that Cassel needs to improve his accuracy.

BUT, you have to understand that this is a ball control offense. This teams identity is to run the ball, win the turnover battle, and eliminate penalties. If you accomplish those three things, your odds of winning the football game are extremely high. During the last offseason, Haley must have had someone do statistical analysis of football games. This would explain his fasciniation with going for it on 4th down.

Cassel is putting the ball where only his receivers can catch it most of the time. Sometimes he throws beyond where they can catch it. He is not taking chances with the football. My guess is that these are strict marching orders from Haley/Weis. 3rd down efficiciency needs to improve, but I'd argue equally big parts of our 3rd down struggles are playcalling and dropped passes like the one that cost us this game against the Raiders.

I agree that the play calling on 3rd down has not been very good at all. Lining up in the "I" formation when you are a running team is only going to make the defense stack the line. At this point, a play action is not going to work cuz you aren't gonna have enough time to throw the ball when the defense is rushing EVERYONE!!!

To blame Cassel for the bad 3rd down percentage is just flat out DUMB. If you wanna blame the play calling, then YES I will agree with you cuz thats the biggest key to the Chiefs low percentage rate.

[CapitalT]

This!!:postpimp4ib:


I am a Cassel fan mainly because of his toughness. I will agree that Cassel needs to improve his accuracy.

BUT, you have to understand that this is a ball control offense. This teams identity is to run the ball, win the turnover battle, and eliminate penalties. If you accomplish those three things, your odds of winning the football game are extremely high. During the last offseason, Haley must have had someone do statistical analysis of football games. This would explain his fasciniation with going for it on 4th down.

Cassel is putting the ball where only his receivers can catch it most of the time. Sometimes he throws beyond where they can catch it. He is not taking chances with the football. My guess is that these are strict marching orders from Haley/Weis. 3rd down efficiciency needs to improve, but I'd argue equally big parts of our 3rd down struggles are playcalling and dropped passes like the one that cost us this game against the Raiders.

There is no doubt that Cassel is tough. It's amazing that he made it through last year and this year he has also shown resilience. I also think he's smart -- he reads defenses fairly well.

The 2 criticism's I have are his accuracy (I've noticed that he often throws behind the receivers when he's throwing deep) and he's sometimes slow to make a decision. I think both these problems are fixable but they do need to be fixed in my opinion.

I also agree that Cassel has probably received instructions to play it safe. I think this explains some of his seemingly poor performance but it doesn't explain everything IMO.

As far as last Sunday is concerned, I agree with Chiefster, I think they wanted it more than us. They played with more spirit in the second half. It was not Cassel's fault we lost that game but we are gonna need to throw the ball well to win games like that. Certainly the dropped passes and the play calling didn't help.

[Connie Jo]

...Could you teach my wife how to talk football? I've tried but it just doesn't take. :bananen_smilies046: :D

:lol:
Well, I might not be able to teach her either, haha. We humans seem to only absorb naturally and easily that of which we have an interest in and/or passion for, hahaha. Heck, with my dad & brothers I grew up talking football.

[Bike]

this whole time he has been catching the ball wrong.:yahoo: :yahoo: :mooning:
You have to catch it to catch it wrong.

[nigeriannightmare]

You're right - Brady isn't all that good. He's just a product of the system.

How many quarterbacks were taken before brady, what round was brady taken in?

Brady is a product of the system, like Matt he learned the system and is benefitting from that system.

[Ryfo18]

You're right - Brady isn't all that good. He's just a product of the system.

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Brady is a very good quarterback. A lot of his success can be attributed to the New England Patriots' system that he has been a part of though. Like I said, Matt Cassel stepped into that same system and went 11-5 in his first season as a starter. I'm more pointing out that the Chiefs are trying to do the same thing with Matt and he's making excellent progress. Going out and getting a new quarterback just sets the team back IMO in the long run. I'm all for letting Matt continue to develop into the next "Tom Brady".

[Chiefster]

:lol:
Well, I might not be able to teach her either, haha. We humans seem to only absorb naturally and easily that of which we have an interest in and/or passion for, hahaha. Heck, with my dad & brothers I grew up talking football.

But you could try, right? :D

[Chiefster]

You have to catch it to catch it wrong.


HA! :lol:

[okikcfan]

Now you're putting words in my mouth. Brady is a very good quarterback. A lot of his success can be attributed to the New England Patriots' system that he has been a part of though. Like I said, Matt Cassel stepped into that same system and went 11-5 in his first season as a starter. I'm more pointing out that the Chiefs are trying to do the same thing with Matt and he's making excellent progress. Going out and getting a new quarterback just sets the team back IMO in the long run. I'm all for letting Matt continue to develop into the next "Tom Brady".
I have to agree with this. Our offense is built around Cassel. If we were to get rid of him we would have to start all over. No matterr what, we are a much improved team and because of the way we started the season we are exspecting alot. As time goes on I hope to see an emprovement from a number of players including Cassel. We need to get DMC back into the mix. Charles need to get healthy. the game against the donks will be a must win game. Clearly the Raiders played a better game tho I HATE saying that. The raiders and the Chargers are on the rise and there is no mistaking that. This is the time we MUST start getting better. With the Chargers and the Raiders on there bye week we can stay ahead in the west standings. This could be an all out war in our division! :efpge: :meow: :efpge: :meow: :chiefs:

[Chiefster]

Like it or not Cassel is our QB and is locked into that position via his contract; aside from that he remains to be our best QB option. Like Coach, I like his toughness and believe that he has some more developing to do.

[Canada]

I have to agree with this. Our offense is built around Cassel. If we were to get rid of him we would have to start all over. No matterr what, we are a much improved team and because of the way we started the season we are exspecting alot. As time goes on I hope to see an emprovement from a number of players including Cassel. We need to get DMC back into the mix. Charles need to get healthy. the game against the donks will be a must win game. Clearly the Raiders played a better game tho I HATE saying that. The raiders and the Chargers are on the rise and there is no mistaking that. This is the time we MUST start getting better. With the Chargers and the Raiders on there bye week we can stay ahead in the west standings. This could be an all out war in our division! :efpge: :meow: :efpge: :meow: :chiefs:

I agree with you except for the part where the Raiders clearly played better. They clearly played much worse and the Chiefs beat themselves. I have seen enough talking heads falling all over themselves praising the raiders, but 20 penalties, 67 yards in the first half. We should have been up 20-0 in the first half. A kick return and some lucky plays kept them in it.

[wilqb16]

I finally got to see the whole game on the NFL shortcut. Add in another 3rd down drop. On the Chiefs 2nd series, on a 3rd and 8, Cassel throws a perfect ball to a crossing Charles for an easy first down and he dropped it.

That makes four 3rd down drops. Two of which were absolute gimmees. The one to Bowe wasn't a gimmee but was not an unroutine catch. To me it seemed the ball came in low because Bowe got caught up hand fighting with the DB and was late turning towards the ball. The last drop is the 3rd and 1 throw to Moeaki, which would have been a great catch had he made it.

Overall, in watching the shortcut, it was clear the Cassel did not cost us this game. Five things did:

1) An inability to mount a consistant run game with Jones.
2) Three non-conversions on 3rd and one.
3) Dropped passes.
4) Penalties
5) Poor secondary play in the 2nd half.

On one upside, we suddenly seem to be getting consistant pass rush out of someone other than Hali.

In my mind, Cassel was the reason we were in this game, not the reason why we lost it.

[Ryfo18]

I finally got to see the whole game on the NFL shortcut. Add in another 3rd down drop. On the Chiefs 2nd series, on a 3rd and 8, Cassel throws a perfect ball to a crossing Charles for an easy first down and he dropped it.

That makes four 3rd down drops. Two of which were absolute gimmees. The one to Bowe wasn't a gimmee but was not an unroutine catch. To me it seemed the ball came in low because Bowe got caught up hand fighting with the DB and was late turning towards the ball. The last drop is the 3rd and 1 throw to Moeaki, which would have been a great catch had he made it.

Overall, in watching the shortcut, it was clear the Cassel did not cost us this game. Five things did:

1) An inability to mount a consistant run game with Jones.
2) Three non-conversions on 3rd and one.
3) Dropped passes.
4) Penalties
5) Poor secondary play in the 2nd half.

On one upside, we suddenly seem to be getting consistant pass rush out of someone other than Hali.

In my mind, Cassel was the reason we were in this game, not the reason why we lost it.

Yep I watched again last night and saw this too. Cassel is only as good as the people around him. That said, I think it's safe to say we have a QB capable of getting the job done.

[matthewschiefs]

I finally got to see the whole game on the NFL shortcut. Add in another 3rd down drop. On the Chiefs 2nd series, on a 3rd and 8, Cassel throws a perfect ball to a crossing Charles for an easy first down and he dropped it.

That makes four 3rd down drops. Two of which were absolute gimmees. The one to Bowe wasn't a gimmee but was not an unroutine catch. To me it seemed the ball came in low because Bowe got caught up hand fighting with the DB and was late turning towards the ball. The last drop is the 3rd and 1 throw to Moeaki, which would have been a great catch had he made it.

Overall, in watching the shortcut, it was clear the Cassel did not cost us this game. Five things did:

1) An inability to mount a consistant run game with Jones.
2) Three non-conversions on 3rd and one.
3) Dropped passes.
4) Penalties
5) Poor secondary play in the 2nd half.

On one upside, we suddenly seem to be getting consistant pass rush out of someone other than Hali.

In my mind, Cassel was the reason we were in this game, not the reason why we lost it.


agree Sure Cassel made mistakes in that game but he also made plays that made up for those mistakes. And on the play were we had a chance to put the game on ice and walk out with the W he did his part. Cassel is not one to put that L on