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figcrostic
10-31-2010, 06:56 PM
Right now we are a good team. Not great, but good. If we can improve on our pass defense and our passing offense we will be a great team. I have complained a lot about Matt Cassel in the past, mainly because I felt he was a bad option for our team. Not because he's gonna make a lot of mistakes but because he's not gonna make difficult throws. I guess it's none of my bizness what a player makes but I feel he's getting star qb money and playing like an average qb. That's why I haven't been complaining as much, because I'm trying to give him a chance and I'm trying to put his pay aside. As far as what Cassel has had to do he has been a good "manager" he has a crap line which should of gotten addressed in the draft, but it didn't, he only has two decent targets in Moeaki and Bowe and all you gotten do is cover them and no threats on the pass plus Cassel has to get rid of the ball quickly. Our pass defense is getting better because Berry has stepped up as of the last two games and not given up as many TD's as the previous games he has had two int and while I'm glad he's playing better I still would have preffered a big LT named Okung, it's clear Waters is getting older and has lost a step. Before this season started I said if we win 7-8 games I'm happy, right now it looks like we will win 10+ and go to the playoffs.

#58ChiefsFan
10-31-2010, 07:20 PM
Another realistic point is that our third down conversion rate has yet to show improvement over last year. I hear Haley beat the drum every week but there is some reason why this group is consecitively not getting it done.

I think we would be fine with Matt if they can find a way to double the third down efficiency.

We are 5-2 yes and have a "soft" schedule but these games are going to get bigger and bigger.

CastoffCassel
10-31-2010, 07:24 PM
Cassel will not lead this team to a super bowl. Our O-line is much better then in years past. The recieving targets can be Moeaki, Bowe, Chambers, Charles or McCluster... there is no excuse for our passing to be so dismal. When Cassel gets sacked half the time, its because he has no idea how to scramble and stay poised.

figcrostic
10-31-2010, 07:27 PM
Cassel will not lead this team to a super bowl. Our O-line is much better then in years past. The recieving targets can be Moeaki, Bowe, Chambers, Charles or McCluster... there is no excuse for our passing to be so dismal. When Cassel gets sacked half the time, its because he has no idea how to scramble and stay poised.

I think Matt's biggest weakness is the fact that he either makes his mind up before the play starts and doesn't change it, resulting in throwing the ball 10 yards away from intended target or he becomes to indecisive and has to throw it away.

Ryfo18
10-31-2010, 07:29 PM
Cassel will not lead this team to a super bowl. Our O-line is much better then in years past. The recieving targets can be Moeaki, Bowe, Chambers, Charles or McCluster... there is no excuse for our passing to be so dismal. When Cassel gets sacked half the time, its because he has no idea how to scramble and stay poised.

You act like these guys are always open...Chambers sucks...McCluster didn't play today. Cassel does a great job of not making mistakes, and that's a great attribute of a QB. Look at the top offensive teams right now...Teams like the Cowboys and Chargers. They do have great offenses, but they also turn the ball over a lot. As long as we have a quarterback that doesn't make mistakes and can move the ball when needed: RECIPE FOR SUCCESS (check our record, yeah it's 5-2).

CastoffCassel
10-31-2010, 07:36 PM
You act like these guys are always open...Chambers sucks...McCluster didn't play today. Cassel does a great job of not making mistakes, and that's a great attribute of a QB. Look at the top offensive teams right now...Teams like the Cowboys and Chargers. They do have great offenses, but they also turn the ball over a lot. As long as we have a quarterback that doesn't make mistakes and can move the ball when needed: RECIPE FOR SUCCESS (check our record, yeah it's 5-2).

Those teams also pass 10x more then we do smart guy. There is a reason why we don't pass as much as they do, because our QB is not reliable and our RB duo is awesome. That's also the reason why we end up losing or cutting it close. Because we rely too much on the run down the stretch and opposing defenses play for the run and when it comes time to pass we get shut down and go 3 and out. Which then leads to our defense having to be on the field more and tiring them out which leads to better opportunities for a opposing team that was shut down but now able to score down the stretch, case in point Indianapolis.

Ryfo18
10-31-2010, 07:37 PM
Those teams also pass 10x more then we do smart guy. There is a reason why we don't pass as much as they do, because our QB is not reliable and our RB duo is awesome. That's also the reason why we end up losing or cutting it close. Because we rely too much on the run down the stretch and opposing defenses play for the run and when it comes time to pass we get shut down and go 3 and out. Which then leads to our defense having to be on the field more and tiring them out which leads to better opportunities for a opposing team that was shut down but now able to score down the stretch, case in point Indianapolis.

Wow, you pointed out 1 loss we had. Sorry, I didn't expect to go 16-0 this year and beat Indy on the road. How did the running attack do when the Bills played for the run on that last drive we had?

figcrostic
10-31-2010, 07:37 PM
Cassel will not lead this team to a super bowl. Our O-line is much better then in years past. The recieving targets can be Moeaki, Bowe, Chambers, Charles or McCluster... there is no excuse for our passing to be so dismal. When Cassel gets sacked half the time, its because he has no idea how to scramble and stay poised.

Double post

CastoffCassel
10-31-2010, 07:43 PM
Wow, you pointed out 1 loss we had. Sorry, I didn't expect to go 16-0 this year and beat Indy on the road. How did the running attack do when the Bills played for the run on that last drive we had?

Dude, are you Cassel's bff or something? I'm just stating what seems to be the weak link in this team. If we had a QB that had more of an understanding of how to handle the pocket, we would be an AFC champ team. I agree with Figcrostic, he pointed out a point that I can clearly see from watching the games as well. You could learn something from him.

azchiefsfan
10-31-2010, 08:01 PM
Cassell is doing fine. Haley said at the beginning of the season he was committed to the run. I believe he is doing what he has been told to: check down and don't turn the ball over. The O line is a world better than last, but still not opening the field for Cassell. This morning on NFL game day Michael Irvin said (and while not a Qboy fan at all I think a lot of Irvin) that Matt Cassell is doing exactly what he is supposed to be doing. I agree. He is playing smart and until he and the receivers are in rhythm, all I ask is to win games and don't turn the ball over. He is being coached too much, that is why he over-thinks plays and seems to be on auto-pilot at times. This is (as unexciting as it is) Haley's scheme. When he was with the Pats he threw like a mofo and made big plays. It is clear he has been drilled to be conservative to the point of anality. You really want to talk realistically about the team, open your eyes and look at what he is being given-not much. His leash is short.

Three7s
10-31-2010, 08:10 PM
Dude, are you Cassel's bff or something? I'm just stating what seems to be the weak link in this team. If we had a QB that had more of an understanding of how to handle the pocket, we would be an AFC champ team. I agree with Figcrostic, he pointed out a point that I can clearly see from watching the games as well. You could learn something from him.
Who do you think you are for just now joining this forum and blasting away at veteran members for voicing their opinion? You have your opinion, we have ours. Do I think Cassel is great? No, but I'm not going to blast people who think he is.

CastoffCassel
10-31-2010, 08:16 PM
Who do you think you are for just now joining this forum and blasting away at veteran members for voicing their opinion? You have your opinion, we have ours. Do I think Cassel is great? No, but I'm not going to blast people who think he is.


How am I blasting him?? The guy is jumping all over me for stating how I feel about Cassel. So before you go thinking I'm trying to out anyone, why don't you read the posts that led up to that. I decided to join this forum because I wanted to see what other true Chiefs fans think and feel about whats going on. I understand I'm a newb but it doesn't mean I can't voice my opinion. I have in no way made any personal attacks as my posts, I've backed everything I have needed to say with football related statements.

figcrostic
10-31-2010, 08:38 PM
Who do you think you are for just now joining this forum and blasting away at veteran members for voicing their opinion? You have your opinion, we have ours. Do I think Cassel is great? No, but I'm not going to blast people who think he is.

Agree, also this thread is not just about Cassel I brought up other topics.

Drunker Hillbilly
10-31-2010, 08:38 PM
Who do you think you are for just now joining this forum and blasting away at veteran members for voicing their opinion? You have your opinion, we have ours. Do I think Cassel is great? No, but I'm not going to blast people who think he is.
Watch it, his occupation is "sports television"......:lol:

Ryfo18
10-31-2010, 08:48 PM
Dude, are you Cassel's bff or something? I'm just stating what seems to be the weak link in this team. If we had a QB that had more of an understanding of how to handle the pocket, we would be an AFC champ team. I agree with Figcrostic, he pointed out a point that I can clearly see from watching the games as well. You could learn something from him.

People come in here all the time and state the obvious...We need a great QB. Good job. Who do we get then? Do we trade for Peyton Manning? Why not trade for Drew Brees? Hell, that will work.

I'm on the "Develop Cassel into a great QB". The number I use to say it's working this year...89 sacks taken in the last 2 years (he held onto the ball too long) vs. 8 taken this year in 7 games. He is getting better by making quick decisions, something that is very tough to do as an NFL QB. And at the same time, he's not turning the ball over. What more can you ask for out of a developing QB? He continues to get better.

Go take a look at Brady's numbers when he joined the league. Very reminiscent of Cassel's. Charlie Weis is a master at developing NFL caliber QBs...oh yeah, he coached Tom Brady!

Ryfo18
10-31-2010, 08:51 PM
Who do you think you are for just now joining this forum and blasting away at veteran members for voicing their opinion? You have your opinion, we have ours. Do I think Cassel is great? No, but I'm not going to blast people who think he is.

Thanks bro, but he's cool. Guy thinks we need to get Peyton Manning and we'd be good... http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2010/10/66.jpg

CastoffCassel
10-31-2010, 09:00 PM
I don't understand how me saying our team is good enough but all we need is a better QB (never once saying all-pro caliber) to put this team over the edge is in any way bad. I just don't trust Cassel, I watch every game with optimism and hope everything works out and I never give up on a game until the final whistle blows. So get off my back and stop trying to look all high and might on a freak'n message forum.

If I had the answer to what QB we should get and it fixed the problem then I would be working for the Chiefs. AGAIN... I am just stating what I think is the only weak factor to a pretty solid team.

CastoffCassel
10-31-2010, 09:01 PM
Watch it, his occupation is "sports television"......:lol:


you want an autograph?

Ryfo18
10-31-2010, 09:02 PM
I don't understand how me saying our team is good enough but all we need is a better QB (never once saying all-pro caliber) to put this team over the edge is in any way bad. I just don't trust Cassel, I watch every game with optimism and hope everything works out and I never give up on a game until the final whistle blows. So get off my back and stop trying to look all high and might on a freak'n message forum.

If I had the answer to what QB we should get and it fixed the problem then I would be working for the Chiefs. AGAIN... I am just stating what I think is the only weak factor to a pretty solid team.

Fair enough... I'm done arguing...I just think Cassel is taking steps in the right direction to THE GUY in the long run. And you disagree, that's fine. :chiefs:

Hayvern
10-31-2010, 09:18 PM
There is 1:30 left in the game, you have 60 yards to go for a touchdown and you are down 4 points. You do not have the time to run the ball on every play, even against the worse ruch defense in the league, what do you do?

You lose the game. Cassel is not the QB that can win this game for you. His timing on his passes are bad, his pocket presence is not good, and he stares down his receivers before he throws.

Until these things get better, we do not want to catch ourselves in close games.

figcrostic
10-31-2010, 09:29 PM
I don't understand how me saying our team is good enough but all we need is a better QB (never once saying all-pro caliber) to put this team over the edge is in any way bad. I just don't trust Cassel, I watch every game with optimism and hope everything works out and I never give up on a game until the final whistle blows. So get off my back and stop trying to look all high and might on a freak'n message forum.

If I had the answer to what QB we should get and it fixed the problem then I would be working for the Chiefs. AGAIN... I am just stating what I think is the only weak factor to a pretty solid team.

Nothing wrong with saying you don't like Cassel, but right now he's all we got. Trade deadline is passed, the draft and Free Agency long gone. Matt will never be elite I think everyone knows this but he can be what we need. Picking Matt up for 16 million a year is a bonehead move but at 6 or 7 million he might just be worth it. Matt can be a good qb behind a good line with good wr's, which basically makes him an average qb, but the thing is we have the number one rush offense, all we need is a better line and a better wr. If this happens Matt goes from a crap qb to a pretty decent one.

chief31
10-31-2010, 10:41 PM
If we had a QB that had more of an understanding of how to handle the pocket, we would be an AFC champ team.

It would be nice if there was a pocket to handle.

Cassel has played extremely well of late. And it is still quite early in his relationship with Weiss' offense.


There is 1:30 left in the game, you have 60 yards to go for a touchdown and you are down 4 points. You do not have the time to run the ball on every play, even against the worse ruch defense in the league, what do you do?

You lose the game. Cassel is not the QB that can win this game for you. His timing on his passes are bad, his pocket presence is not good, and he stares down his receivers before he throws.

Until these things get better, we do not want to catch ourselves in close games.

I am gonna disagree.

If the pocket becomes more reliable, then I do want Cassel back there.

In just seven games, he has made a miraculous transition from the what he was last season.

I think there is still more to see.

And he did take us down the field in a hurry to win today.


Matt will never be elite I think everyone knows this

How would anybody know this?

but he can be what we need. Picking Matt up for 16 million a year is a bonehead move but at 6 or 7 million he might just be worth it. Matt can be a good qb behind a good line with good wr's, which basically makes him an average qb, but the thing is we have the number one rush offense, all we need is a better line and a better wr. If this happens Matt goes from a crap qb to a pretty decent one.

There is no crap QB out there. Nor a "pretty decent" one. Over the past few games, Cassel has been a very good QB.

Just my opinion. But backed by facts/stats.

Coach
10-31-2010, 10:48 PM
There is no crap QB out there. Nor a "pretty decent" one. Over the past few games, Cassel has been a very good QB.

Just my opinion. But backed by facts/stats.

Heading into today:


QB Matt Cassel has a 108.9 passer rating over his last four games - the best mark of any QB in the league over that span (min. 100 atts).


All you Cassel haters can put that in your pipe and smoke it. :SmokinBanana:

figcrostic
10-31-2010, 10:59 PM
Heading into today:


All you Cassel haters can put that in your pipe and smoke it. :SmokinBanana:

Why does every thread that mentions Cassel's name become a "Cassel Hater thread" read my original post if anything I spoke well on him saying that he suffered from a bad line, bad play calling, and poor WR's. I merely said Cassel is not an elite QB, and that If he is our guy he needs help.

Ryfo18
10-31-2010, 11:11 PM
There is 1:30 left in the game, you have 60 yards to go for a touchdown and you are down 4 points. You do not have the time to run the ball on every play, even against the worse ruch defense in the league, what do you do?

You lose the game. Cassel is not the QB that can win this game for you. His timing on his passes are bad, his pocket presence is not good, and he stares down his receivers before he throws.

Until these things get better, we do not want to catch ourselves in close games.

He was in a similar situation today, and needed a field goal to win...He did it.

Remember the Cowboys game last year? He drove the team down the field to tie with a touchdown and take it to overtime.

What you just stated happens very rarely, even for the greatest QBs in the game. I don't have the stats, but I'm going to guess maybe 40% of the time for a guy like Peyton (probably not even that high)... What team wouldn't want a guy that can do that every game. In the end though , some fans just have unrealistic expectations.

Coach
10-31-2010, 11:13 PM
Why does every thread that mentions Cassel's name become a "Cassel Hater thread" read my original post if anything I spoke well on him saying that he suffered from a bad line, bad play calling, and poor WR's. I merely said Cassel is not an elite QB, and that If he is our guy he needs help.
My post wasnt directed at you in particular. I would agree that Cassel is not an elite QB at this point, but he has been playing well. Statisticly, he's been Elite over the last 4 weeks. Just saying'.

chief31
10-31-2010, 11:16 PM
Heading into today:


QB Matt Cassel has a 108.9 passer rating over his last four games - the best mark of any QB in the league over that span (min. 100 atts).

I don't think that he hurt that very much today, either.

Coach
10-31-2010, 11:19 PM
I don't think that he hurt that very much today, either.

84.1 rating today.
14-26 152yds 1td 0int

chief31
10-31-2010, 11:22 PM
84.1 rating today.
14-26 152yds 1td 0int

Yep. That's still pretty solid.

ctchiefsfan
10-31-2010, 11:41 PM
I'm no great fan of Cassel, and I really can't say that I see him "winning" any games for us on his own, but he is not losing them either. He's not taking a lot of sacks or turning the ball over. And like the rest of the team, he is surely much improved from last year. All in all, he is doing much better than I expected at the end of pre-season.

brdempsey69
10-31-2010, 11:43 PM
You make many valid points, figcrostic. This upcoming game with the Raiders is going to be a big-time measuring stick & there is cause for concern, as we've discussed before.