Charlie Weis Debate

[Bike]

This was the biggest game for the Chiefs in over three years...
ZERO points.
ZERO.
This was bad offensive game-planning if you ask me - even if you don't ask me.
Our coaches did not have this team prepared to play this game today.
I love the Chiefs - but I don't love Weis. Not after this fiasco.

[matthewschiefs]

Coaching is as big as a part of this loss just as the palyers. The coaches didn't have this team ready to play. Today He is not on my good list either.

[#58ChiefsFan]

Cassel has surgery on Wed and your mad a chuckles?

We are not a plug and play offense. We have a team that can compete with anyone when they are all healthy at once. Begin removing a piece here or there and you get what we have now.

[Bike]

Cassel has surgery on Wed and your mad a chuckles?

We are not a plug and play offense. We have a team that can compete with anyone when they are all healthy at once. Begin removing a piece here or there and you get what we have now.
ANY team can be competitive when they are all healthy at once - as you put it. The secret to being a playoff team is to game plan around the players that you have on the field. You MUST be a plug & play offense in this league if you are gonna get far into the playoffs.
So am I mad at Weis? You bet I am.
ZERO points.

[Connie Jo]

Cassel has surgery on Wed and your mad a chuckles?

We are not a plug and play offense. We have a team that can compete with anyone when they are all healthy at once. Begin removing a piece here or there and you get what we have now.

I agree...up until yesterday I think it was, they weren't sure if Cassel would or would not play, at least according to reports.


ANY team can be competitive when they are all healthy at once - as you put it. The secret to being a playoff team is to game plan around the players that you have on the field. You MUST be a plug & play offense in this league if you are gonna get far into the playoffs.
So am I mad at Weis? You bet I am.
ZERO points.

I don't think any one person is to blame. I agree we will not make it through the playoffs without solid back up players, in case of injury...but we don't have that, regardless.

I've always felt the Chiefs will make it to the playoffs, but I don't have high hopes of us being a team capable yet of making it through the playoffs. Even healthy...we're still young & inconsistent in many ways, & lack adequate pass defense, which will be a key factor against playoff teams. I look for 2011 to give us a better shot at the Super Bowl, than I do 2010. That said, any thing is possible, I'm just basing my opinion on what I see as the current reality.

[#58ChiefsFan]

ANY team can be competitive when they are all healthy at once - as you put it. The secret to being a playoff team is to game plan around the players that you have on the field. You MUST be a plug & play offense in this league if you are gonna get far into the playoffs.
So am I mad at Weis? You bet I am.
ZERO points.

Your just going to have to get happy in your mad pants mister.

[Bike]

After an apendectimy - I was certain that Cassel wouldn't play - at least this week. I'm sure the coaching staff knew that as well. Weis had at least 5 days to come up with a game plan for Croyle. Weis needs to be able to do this. There might be a time when he may have to change his game plan in a 15 minute halftime. He had 5 days.

[Bike]

Your just going to have to get happy in your mad pants mister.
I know. Thanks for the reminder. :smile

[lordchillz]

This was planned!

[Bike]

This was planned!
I hardly think 31-0 could have been planned.

[josh1971]

This was planned!


So you're saying that a game that if we'd won would have pretty much sealed the division was thrown, huh...?

There would have been NO benefit to anyone planning to lose this game just to spare our team injuries.

[lordchillz]

Spare ourselves of injuries and come out hard and strong on the final 3 games! I know it sounds crazy but look at the stats of the game! The numbers dont lie! If you really think we're that bad with croyle alone then you might want to rethink your football ideals! It's ugly and horrible but at the same time if this loss pays off in the post season then you'll call them (coaches) geniuses! They would gladly take a loss to a game-behind opponent if it means getting your starting quarter back to return and the offensive weapons that got you here in the first place in the playoffs! You have to admit we need every single piece of offense to compete in the playoffs! The coaches are playing the numbers!

[Chiefster]

Outplayed and out-coached.


...'Nough said.

[Bike]

Outplayed and out-coached.


...'Nough said.
Yes. Not even a field goal. Tough to watch.

[Canada]

This was the biggest game for the Chiefs in over three years...
ZERO points.
ZERO.
This was bad offensive game-planning if you ask me - even if you don't ask me.
Our coaches did not have this team prepared to play this game today.
I love the Chiefs - but I don't love Weis. Not after this fiasco.

What about the other 12 games where we have been ranked #6 overall in offense, have the #1 rushing offense, Bowe leading the league in TDs and one of the better QBs in the league. If you are going to blame Weis for yesterday then its only fair to ive him credit for the offensive improvement. We were ranked near the bottom of the leage for the past three years were we not? Without Weis, we are having a weekly debate about why our offense sucks.

[Bike]

What about the other 12 games where we have been ranked #6 overall in offense, have the #1 rushing offense, Bowe leading the league in TDs and one of the better QBs in the league. If you are going to blame Weis for yesterday then its only fair to ive him credit for the offensive improvement. We were ranked near the bottom of the leage for the past three years were we not? Without Weis, we are having a weekly debate about why our offense sucks.
I understand what you are saying. I was referring to his gameplan yesterday vs bolts.

[4everchiefsfan25]

[quote=lordchillz;217749]Spare ourselves of injuries and come out hard and strong on the final 3 games! I know it sounds crazy but look at the stats of the game! The numbers dont lie! If you really think we're that bad with croyle alone then you might want to rethink your football ideals! It's ugly and horrible but at the same time if this loss pays off in the post season then you'll call them (coaches) geniuses! They would gladly take a loss to a game-behind opponent if it means getting your starting quarter back to return and the offensive weapons that got you here in the first place in the playoffs! You have to admit we need every single piece of offense to compete in the playoffs! The coaches are playing the numbers![/quote

What i always tell my lil league team is that if you play scared on the field then you are going to get hurt. That goes for being in the NFL to that is crazy to even think we didnt want to win this game. If we won that game there was no chance for San Diego to win the division and a very slim chance that Oakland would win it.

[Canada]

I understand what you are saying. I was referring to his gameplan yesterday vs bolts.

If we are looking to lay blame on someone it belongs on the coaching staff, the offense, the defense, the special teams, the waterboy, the guy who rolls the cable for the coaches headphones, the chain gang. EVERYONE!! There was absolutely no effort from anyone on the team. It was a joke and they should be ashamed of themselves.

[wilqb16]

I think this why Haley still refuses to call this a "good" team and I agree with him. We don't have the depth of a good team and we still have holes that can be exploited. Good teams have guys step up when others get hurt, we don't have those guys.

We win games by not making mistakes and staying in contests. This isn't the way a "good" team wins. I doubt this is the strategy of the Patriots, Eagles or Steelers, week in and week out. The reason we do this is because we are covering too many holes. Name me linebacker who makes regularly plays outside of Hali and DJ? Also we are still thin on the defensive front. On offense, Casey Wiegmann is better than Niswanger, but still gets manhandled by bigger NT's. Outside of Bowe and Moeaki, we don't have any consistent receivers. Verran Turner is a nice story but he still only has like 6 catches in 5 or 6 starts.

While I also hated Weis's game plan, I don't know that another plan would have changed the outcome much. We were manhandled on both lines. Like it or not, the Chargers are a more talented team than we are, right now. The only reason why we are ahead of them is that I think we are better coached. Reverse coaching staffs and I'd bet the Chargers would be like 11-2 and we'd be like 5-8.

[4everchiefsfan25]

I think this why Haley still refuses to call this a "good" team and I agree with him. We don't have the depth of a good team and we still have holes that can be exploited. Good teams have guys step up when others get hurt, we don't have those guys.

We win games by not making mistakes and staying in contests. This isn't the way a "good" team wins. I doubt this is the strategy of the Patriots, Eagles or Steelers, week in and week out. The reason we do this is because we are covering too many holes. Name me linebacker who makes regularly plays outside of Hali and DJ? Also we are still thin on the defensive front. On offense, Casey Wiegmann is better than Niswanger, but still gets manhandled by bigger NT's. Outside of Bowe and Moeaki, we don't have any consistent receivers. Verran Turner is a nice story but he still only has like 6 catches in 5 or 6 starts.

While I also hated Weis's game plan, I don't know that another plan would have changed the outcome much. We were manhandled on both lines. Like it or not, the Chargers are a more talented team than we are, right now. The only reason why we are ahead of them is that I think we are better coached. Reverse coaching staffs and I'd bet the Chargers would be like 11-2 and we'd be like 5-8.

I think we are just one good draft away from having a really talented team. If we have a draft this year like we had last year then I think we will go into the next season a SB contender but im not giving up on this season I still hope we can get into the playoffs and steal a win or two well hell maybe even steal a SB lol

[reded]

Until we can beat on people like the Patriots have down the stretch, I'll never call the Chiefs a "good" team. We're merely an average team with a creative coaching staff that finds ways to make a few players overachieve.
Our 8 wins is a vast improvement over the last few years, I said that I'd be happy with 8 wins this year, and I am.
On the other hand I must admit that I've been a bit disappointed with our play the last couple of weeks. This is when it should all be coming together and it seems the team is going in the opposite direction. Seeing Brady and the Pats on every sports page gets annoying but I gotta admit, those boys have been playing some ball and laying the wood to opposing teams. THAT'S how its gotta be done in December!

[4everchiefsfan25]

Until we can beat on people like the Patriots have down the stretch, I'll never call the Chiefs a "good" team. We're merely an average team with a creative coaching staff that finds ways to make a few players overachieve.
Our 8 wins is a vast improvement over the last few years and I said that I'd be happy with 8 wins this year, and I am. On the other hand I must admit that I've been a bit disappointed with our play the last couple of weeks. This is when it should all be coming together and it seems the team is going in the opposite direction. Seeing Brady and the Pats on every sports page gets annoying but I gotta admit, those boys have been playing some ball and laying the wood to opposing teams. THAT'S how its gotta be done in December!

Isnt that what coaches are suppose to do? Make players play better than what other people can? Look at the Patriots they make average players look good. Deion Branch is putting up numbers again now that he is back in New England but when he was in Seattle he fell off and people forgot about him.

[reded]

Quote:
Originally Posted by reded http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/redbar/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?p=217947#post217947)
Until we can beat on people like the Patriots have down the stretch, I'll never call the Chiefs a "good" team. We're merely an average team with a creative coaching staff that finds ways to make a few players overachieve.
Our 8 wins is a vast improvement over the last few years and I said that I'd be happy with 8 wins this year, and I am. On the other hand I must admit that I've been a bit disappointed with our play the last couple of weeks. This is when it should all be coming together and it seems the team is going in the opposite direction. Seeing Brady and the Pats on every sports page gets annoying but I gotta admit, those boys have been playing some ball and laying the wood to opposing teams. THAT'S how its gotta be done in December!


Isnt that what coaches are suppose to do? Make players play better than what other people can? Look at the Patriots they make average players look good. Deion Branch is putting up numbers again now that he is back in New England but when he was in Seattle he fell off and people forgot about him.

A few being the key words there...my bad!

[wilqb16]

On the other hand I must admit that I've been a bit disappointed with our play the last couple of weeks. This is when it should all be coming together and it seems the team is going in the opposite direction. Seeing Brady and the Pats on every sports page gets annoying but I gotta admit, those boys have been playing some ball and laying the wood to opposing teams. THAT'S how its gotta be done in December!

I am disappointed in our play this week. Last weeks win in Denver was about what I expected, a tough fought divisional contest...I was actually glad we won that game 10-6, because I think to win the SB you have to learn to win all sorts of different ways. I remember when the Rams beat an overachieving Bucs team 10-6 to get to their first Superbowl win.

I am not making too much out of this game. Still, I agree that I don't think we will contend for a Superbowl until next season.

[4everchiefsfan25]

I hope we can get the key guys we need in the draft this coming up year so we can get that run to the SB next year but I still would like atleast a playoff birth this year and swing for the fences.

[C Louie]

Spare ourselves of injuries and come out hard and strong on the final 3 games! I know it sounds crazy but look at the stats of the game! The numbers dont lie! If you really think we're that bad with croyle alone then you might want to rethink your football ideals! It's ugly and horrible but at the same time if this loss pays off in the post season then you'll call them (coaches) geniuses! They would gladly take a loss to a game-behind opponent if it means getting your starting quarter back to return and the offensive weapons that got you here in the first place in the playoffs! You have to admit we need every single piece of offense to compete in the playoffs! The coaches are playing the numbers!
This doesn't make any sense to me. We knew Cassel wasn't playing but why wouldn't they at least try to win with Brodie? How can this loss pay off in the post season? Because of this loss we might not even make the post season?

[4everchiefsfan25]

This doesn't make any sense to me. We knew Cassel wasn't playing but why wouldn't they at least try to win with Brodie? How can this loss pay off in the post season? Because of this loss we might not even make the post season?

its not like the Chiefs said they wernt going to win or try to win because Cassel was out. This is a business and people lose jobs over not winning games and I think Haley wouldn't be stupid to just call the game. Croyle only threw for 40 yards Sunday but if you remember Cassel only threw for like 60 yards in the first game. So they came out with the same game plan but we just couldn't execute.

[Hayvern]

Look guys, San Diego did EXACTLY what they said they were going to do. They loaded up the box to play the run and shut the run completely off.

This was huge because Croyle was simply not going to be able to play at any caliber through the air. He had one option, and that was to run.

We got beat. Cassel would not have stopped the loss we had, we might not have been shut out, but we would have been beaten, San Diego was up big for this game and we were not.

[4everchiefsfan25]

Look guys, San Diego did EXACTLY what they said they were going to do. They loaded up the box to play the run and shut the run completely off.

This was huge because Croyle was simply not going to be able to play at any caliber through the air. He had one option, and that was to run.

We got beat. Cassel would not have stopped the loss we had, we might not have been shut out, but we would have been beaten, San Diego was up big for this game and we were not.

I agree San Diego played the game like it was do or die and the Chiefs played like this game didn't really matter. That is partly because we have a young team.

[chief31]

What about the other 12 games where we have been ranked #6 overall in offense, have the #1 rushing offense, Bowe leading the league in TDs and one of the better QBs in the league. If you are going to blame Weis for yesterday then its only fair to ive him credit for the offensive improvement. We were ranked near the bottom of the leage for the past three years were we not? Without Weis, we are having a weekly debate about why our offense sucks.

I agree. I am a fan of Weiss for his season's work.

However, I think that it was painfully obvious that he failed to keep Croyle ready to play.

Croyle deserves plenty of blame. But he should have been involved with any discussion that Weiss had with Cassel, all year long.

It is speculation. Maybe Croyle was getting the appropriate attention all year, and just choked under the pressure.

But I think it is far more likely that Croyle was left out of alot of the QB teaching that has gone on this year, with Weiss and Cassel.

It sure did look like it to me.

Anyway.....

I am not shocked that we lost. Shocked at how we lost. But we are in a position that I was prepared to be in, after that game.

Hopefully Cassel will be ready to go next weekend. And Hopefully, Croyle will be ready next time he is needed.

Let's win this last road game, then have the division dependant upon our ability to win at Arrowhead.

[bigpoppachief]

You cant blame the Coahces I blame Croyle he looked like a rookie out there Yeah ok I know he hasnt played in awhile but instead of taking the bull by it's horns he looked like a scared little turd ! We couldnt run because they were not worried about Croyle passing every throw he made was likehe was trying to kill the guy no touch at all.

[Hayvern]

We could go 8 and 8 on the season and I will still be very happy with where this team is headed. 8 - 8 is a remarkable season considering 4 -12 last season.

Anything better than 8 and 8 is gravy!

[KristofLaw]

I ain't got no problems with Charlie Weis.

[Lazeye]

I am thankful to have Weis and I think you all do to, but upset at this loss. I am as well but I see the big picture and this game is just another brick in the wall. Preseason game one next year and you will have forgotten this last game or when we get into the playoffs this year this will be long gone. 24 hr rule!!!

[C Louie]

We could go 8 and 8 on the season and I will still be very happy with where this team is headed. 8 - 8 is a remarkable season considering 4 -12 last season.

Anything better than 8 and 8 is gravy!

I agree with this as we all got our hopes up after the great start. Don't get me wrong I am still hoping for a playoff birth but if we don't do it this year, things could be worse. :chiefs:

[4everchiefsfan25]

I will be happy with an 8-8 but I also would be a lil dissappointed that we couldn't take advantage of our opportunities

[OPLookn]

I agree with this as we all got our hopes up after the great start. Don't get me wrong I am still hoping for a playoff birth but if we don't do it this year, things could be worse. :chiefs:

I agree, I told myself at the beginning of the year that 8-8 would be a vast improvement and I'd completely take that. However I would hate to see the last four games of the season be losses. If we end the season 10-6 and don't make the playoffs because we didn't win in our division then I'm ok with that. It'd end the season on a good note and it'd show a young team that you have to take care of business when it comes to playing division foes.

[4everchiefsfan25]

I agree, I told myself at the beginning of the year that 8-8 would be a vast improvement and I'd completely take that. However I would hate to see the last four games of the season be losses. If we end the season 10-6 and don't make the playoffs because we didn't win in our division then I'm ok with that. It'd end the season on a good note and it'd show a young team that you have to take care of business when it comes to playing division foes.

Thats true but I would hate to see the Chargers win ANOTHER AFC West title. Also I dread the Chokeland Raiders winning it especially if they win it on Jan. 2nd. So lets not think negative and lets cheer the Chiefs to the playoffs.

[OPLookn]

Thats true but I would hate to see the Chargers win ANOTHER AFC West title. Also I dread the Chokeland Raiders winning it especially if they win it on Jan. 2nd. So lets not think negative and lets cheer the Chiefs to the playoffs.

Oh believe me I know it's in our hands to lose and I'm doing nothing but hoping that we get into the playoffs. I'd love nothing more than to see us win out and have the dolts win out and we get to give the big ole finger to them because we have a better record. Then the perfect situation would be for them to fire norv and have the new coach blow up the team. Hey a guy can hope...

[Chiefster]

We could go 8 and 8 on the season and I will still be very happy with where this team is headed. 8 - 8 is a remarkable season considering 4 -12 last season.

Anything better than 8 and 8 is gravy!


A great big THIS!!!

[4everchiefsfan25]

Oh believe me I know it's in our hands to lose and I'm doing nothing but hoping that we get into the playoffs. I'd love nothing more than to see us win out and have the dolts win out and we get to give the big ole finger to them because we have a better record. Then the perfect situation would be for them to fire norv and have the new coach blow up the team. Hey a guy can hope...

Maybe we will get lucky and the Chargers fire Norv and then turn around and hire Josh Mcdaniels that would be awesome

[josh1971]

Maybe we will get lucky and the Chargers fire Norv and then turn around and hire Josh Mcdaniels that would be awesome


I have a feeling McDaniels is going back to an OC job, or a position coach.

[4everchiefsfan25]

I have a feeling McDaniels is going back to an OC job, or a position coach.

Probably but I wish the Chargers would make the same mistake as the Broncos.
:beat_DeadHorse: :boltssuck: