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jap1
01-09-2011, 05:37 PM
Well. Now that the season is over. Lets start looking at the draft and free agency!

What are your top needs, and who do you want us to pick. It looks like we will be picking either at either 21, 22 or 23 (3 way tie between us Indy and the loser of the GB/Philly game, usu decided by a coin toss).

My top needs:

1. Elite FS
- By far the biggest weakness on our team. Berry will make a great SS. He has the skills to cover zone and man, and is great at coming up against the run. Other than him, we are horrible at safety. It may be better to get someone from free agency. Berry could use some experience to mentor him. (supposedly Champ Bailey wants out of Denver and wants to play FS to prolong his career).

2. OG and/or OC prospect.
-Our interior is getting old. Waters is still playing well, but is one injury away from retiring. Asamoah will likely be really good soon, but Weigmann is getting old, too. Id love to see our 3rd round pick used here.

3. #2 WR
- This will open up our offense immensely. Bowe is constantly double teamed. If he is one-on-one, he will get open. If they double him, then Moeaki, the #2 guy, and the run game will open up. I say draft someone in the 2nd round.

4. OLB
- Vrabel is getting old, isnt getting to the QB and is not the best cover man because he has lost a step. We need someone who is good in coverage, not just a rush guy. Our LBs couldnt keep up with the Ravens' TEs. This could probably be found in either the draft or in FA.

5. NT
- We dont have a true NT. Our DL is good, but Edwards is old and doesnt have the strength to hold up to 2x teams. We need a big beast in the middle. Not sure if there are any great NTs in the draft, or FA.

6. Backup QB
- I think we all agree that Brokie Croyle has lost most of his supporters. I say FA or a low round draft pick.

What are your thoughts?

jap1
01-09-2011, 05:50 PM
Correction. I think we pick at #21. The tiebreaker goes to the lowest strength of schedule (opponent W-L record), which is us.

Coach
01-09-2011, 06:10 PM
I agree with most of your positions, but I'm inclined to see what Kendrick Lewis can bring to the table over the next couple of years, versus taking another safety in the 1st round.

WR seems like a pretty glaring need, but I think that is a position that might be better filled through free agency/trade. I believe in Asamoah, but we still need another RG,C,RT.

This was one of the worst games I've seen Vrabel play. Maybe I just saw him at the wrong times, but it seemed he was a day late and dollar short every time he was near the ball.

rodu
01-09-2011, 06:16 PM
I think we will be fine at FS, Lewis will be good

brish
01-09-2011, 06:41 PM
Tough game to watch today..

Need a new OC who can keep developing Cassel, but also stick around and be a little more creative than Weiss was.

Players:

Im not ready to give up on Lewis at FS, he has talent i think.

We need a wide receiver, someone who can run GREAT routes, not good.. but freaking GREAT!
Our receivers have been pretty much shut out several times this year.
Besides when you sign a guy on Tuesday and play him in a playoff game on Sunday (Curtis) then you are in trouble.

NT - Ron Edwards is serviceable, but we need a stronger, younger Nose tackle to complete that line.

Center - Wiegmann is good, but he could realize how damn old he is, any minute now.. Someone younger and stronger would be preferable.

RT - Barry Richardson is up and down, we need someone to challenge him. And not O'Callaghan.

OLB - Im a Vrabel fan, and he has been instrumental in the maturation of this defence. But he is just getting too slow now.
We need a complete linebacker, not just rush, nut just coverage.. Both!
Im a little dissapointed that we didn't see more of Studebaker through out the year, but maybe he is just a good backup and special teamer, and nothing more..

General depth at safety and O-line..

rodu
01-09-2011, 07:32 PM
we need a deep threat to stretch the field, someone to make those play action passes deadly

pbatrucker
01-10-2011, 09:50 AM
SINCE WEE HAVE 2 TEAMS IN OUR DIVISION THAT COMPLETLY MANHANDLE US. SD AND oAKLAND.
Getting bigger and stronger on the OL and DL is 1st priorty. OC, RG, RT, all get manhandled too often. Love weigman and Lelija but both are too small at 280 lbs too hold up under the pounding ,big physical teams dish out. Zone blocking? well ok, but your OL must be big enough and strong enough to play with the big boys.
WR, NT OLB, ILB, Hell we need better players and depth every where.

bbacker51
01-10-2011, 09:59 AM
I think a WR would be best addressed with a free agent.

Draft the best O-lineman availble in the first round.

4everchiefsfan25
01-10-2011, 11:11 AM
I think a WR would be best addressed with a free agent.

Draft the best O-lineman availble in the first round.
Ya I think we need to draft the biggest and strongest O-lineman because we cant get dominated next year like we did this year against bigger defensive fronts.

DMN
01-10-2011, 11:21 AM
O line all the way... Not only are two of our starters old but we have nothing behind them. We need proven FAs (which wont exactly be plentiful) or draft players now. I fully expect a 38 yr old weigman to hang it up this offseason.

I say the best LT we can get our hands on at 21... Then move Albert to RT, Waters to C, and Asamoah to LG.... The jury is still out on Lilja..

What the raiders were able to do to us is simply not going to cut. I dont care who you have runnin routes. Our O line gets overwhelmed too easily. I mean what did they play yesterday... Not even 20 mins and still could not give Cassel good protection.

If not O line in the first then I say a real NT...

I like Lewis at SS... Think he has potential.

WR most definately addressed... But I just cant see us spending our first rounder on one and I think anything after that wont be quite NFL ready to line up across from Bowe... But hey maybe I am wrong.

brdempsey69
01-10-2011, 12:35 PM
Got to be O-Line. At least 2 of their top 3 picks in the 2011 draft need to be spent on talented O-Lineman. The Chiefs won't get an easy schedule in 2011 and if they don't address the O-Line, then Cassel will get the living hell beaten out of him next season and he will not progress, but will regress.


O line all the way... Not only are two of our starters old but we have nothing behind them. We need proven FAs (which wont exactly be plentiful) or draft players now. I fully expect a 38 yr old weigman to hang it up this offseason.

I say the best LT we can get our hands on at 21... Then move Albert to RT, Waters to C, and Asamoah to LG.... The jury is still out on Lilja..

What the raiders were able to do to us is simply not going to cut. I dont care who you have runnin routes. Our O line gets overwhelmed too easily. I mean what did they play yesterday... Not even 20 mins and still could not give Cassel good protection.



Repped. figcrostic and I have been saying this for some time. LT is not Albert's natural position. And he's not improving at the LT position, he's as good as he's ever going to be at the LT position ... and it's not good enough !!

If Derek Sherrod is available at 21, then he has to be the pick. There's no excuses for passing on him ( really wasn't any excuses for passing on Russell Okung in 2010 ).

Seek
01-10-2011, 12:40 PM
we need a LT, preferable one that does not watch his QB get killed with his hands on his hips after he screws up.

We will need a center. Waters and Weigmann are most likely done.

We then need depth at offensive line.

We then need a NT and a pass rushing LB.

We need a #1 or #2 WR. One that is not a gimmick fumbling light weight that looks like he gets blown up everytime he is tackled due to be so small.

matthewschiefs
01-10-2011, 12:47 PM
My needs in order
1. A pass rusher.
1b youth on the online
We really need both. Our secoundary is not bad but if the qbs have all day to throw then someone is bound to get open.
O line is a no brainer. We need youth there. We might be able to get anther season out of waters and weigmann but not any more. We need to have there backups in place NOW
2. WR A huge need. We have to address it. It would open up the whole offense if we had anther weapon at the WR spot.

DMN
01-10-2011, 12:55 PM
we need a LT, preferable one that does not watch his QB get killed with his hands on his hips after he screws up.

We will need a center. Waters and Weigmann are most likely done.

We then need depth at offensive line.

We then need a NT and a pass rushing LB.

We need a #1 or #2 WR. One that is not a gimmick fumbling light weight that looks like he gets blown up everytime he is tackled due to be so small.

You may be right but I want to believe that Waters will give us one more year with having a pro bowl season and with the strides we made this season...
He is still playing at a high enough level so I hope hes got one more left in the tank.

Seek
01-10-2011, 01:09 PM
You may be right but I want to believe that Waters will give us one more year with having a pro bowl season and with the strides we made this season...
He is still playing at a high enough level so I hope hes got one more left in the tank.

he made the pro-bowl because he is known. He did not have a pr-bowl year. He also hinted to the media after the game on Sunday, that his time with the Chiefs is in the air. They think he is thinking about retiring.

he has not been playing at a high level since Willie Roaf retired. I have seen Waters destroyed more times that I have seen him do well this year.

4everchiefsfan25
01-10-2011, 01:15 PM
he made the pro-bowl because he is known. He did not have a pr-bowl year. He also hinted to the media after the game on Sunday, that his time with the Chiefs is in the air. They think he is thinking about retiring.

he has not been playing at a high level since Willie Roaf retired. I have seen Waters destroyed more times that I have seen him do well this year.
Ya Waters does look pretty old out there.

Coach
01-10-2011, 01:17 PM
he made the pro-bowl because he is known. He did not have a pr-bowl year. He also hinted to the media after the game on Sunday, that his time with the Chiefs is in the air. They think he is thinking about retiring.

he has not been playing at a high level since Willie Roaf retired. I have seen Waters destroyed more times that I have seen him do well this year.
Agreed, Waters did not have the type of year he has historically.

Here is a stat line that tracks the performance of offensive lines. It takes into account not only sacks, but also hurries, knockdowns, etc. It's fun to look back at the Dick Vermeil years, it's pretty telling.


http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2011/01/16.jpg (http://s.tt/11MwX)
Clipped from: newyorklife.stats.com (http://s.tt/11MwX) (share this clip (http://curate.us/11MwX+))

brdempsey69
01-10-2011, 01:22 PM
he made the pro-bowl because he is known. He did not have a pr-bowl year. He also hinted to the media after the game on Sunday, that his time with the Chiefs is in the air. They think he is thinking about retiring.

he has not been playing at a high level since Willie Roaf retired. I have seen Waters destroyed more times that I have seen him do well this year.

Agreed with you about Waters. If he does come back next year, then he should given the choice between moving to Center or getting out. The Chiefs already have someone on the roster to take over the LG spot -- his name is Branden Albert.

The moves the Chiefs should make next year should be to draft Sherrod to play LT ( if available ) move Albert to LG, Waters to Center ( and draft a Center in the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th round ), have Asamoah take over at RG. RT would be still up in the air, but maybe Richardson does improve, but I really believe the aforementioned moves would improve the O-Line greatly.

If Weigmann and Waters do retire, then there should be no doubt whatsoever in anyone's mind that the Chiefs need to draft O-Lineman ( isn't any doubt in my mind if both do come back ).

Jrudi
01-10-2011, 05:11 PM
Disagree with a few comments on this topic.

Needs:
1. WR2 (Draft Round 1)

2. O-line Depth (Draft Round 2 or 3 (Demarcus Love OT, ARK rnd 2 or Marcus Gilbert OT FLA rnd 3)

3. Safety Depth (Free agency..I like the Bailey idea possibly Bob Sanders if he is cut (I know he is fragile but it may be a good thing for him to limit his snaps and coach up the youngsters, need to give Lewis a year or two)

4. LB Depth (Draft/FA) (Dqwell Jackson from CLE may be a name to keep and eye on, could rotate, and Drafted by Crennell)

5. NT (Draft Jerrell Powe NT OLE MISS??)

5. Back up QB (Draft Round 3-5..Greg McElroy QB ALA. Smart, Smart kid, Has won a National Championship, could groom to take over later, posesses Characteristics Management like, and better than our current former ALA QB.



#1 Need in the offseason to address:
- WR opposite Dwayne Bowe!!!!

We need to Draft one in the 1st round (those available may be Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon, or Johnathan Baldwin, AJ Green Will be gone by time we pick) Only knock on these guys is their experience. Jones has the most playing experience 3 yrs I think and played in the SEC (which Haley and Pioli seem to like.)

I say this because I don't feel that the stagnant offensive production against the ravens can be pinned on the O-line (Let's remember..Cassel was one of the LEAST-Sacked QB's this season, we do need depth at the line but feel that the WR2 trumps the issues here as of now)

I think the lack of Offensive production was due to lack of open receivers (It's not a good thing for a team to sign an old Kevin Kurtis who only caught two balls all season and was cut by a non-playoff team the week of a playoff game, and have him start! yikes!) We have tried free agency many times and it hasn't worked, Unless we can trade for Fitzgerald who would be a lock, we need to draft a WR to develop and relieve coverage from Bowe.)

I know we have said this every year since Hailey has been here but I Feel it could be likely this year, because Haley has probably been bothering Pioli about this for the 1st two drafts and will use this playoff game as a reason to grab one.

Let me know what you think...

Jrudi
01-10-2011, 05:22 PM
another note, if Wiegmann and Waters retire, then my needs would of course be altered. Thanks

brdempsey69
01-10-2011, 06:14 PM
.......
Needs:
1. WR2 (Draft Round 1)

2. O-line Depth (Draft Round 2 or 3 (Demarcus Love OT, ARK rnd 2 or Marcus Gilbert OT FLA rnd 3)

3. Safety Depth (Free agency..I like the Bailey idea possibly Bob Sanders if he is cut (I know he is fragile but it may be a good thing for him to limit his snaps and coach up the youngsters, need to give Lewis a year or two)

4. LB Depth (Draft/FA) (Dqwell Jackson from CLE may be a name to keep and eye on, could rotate, and Drafted by Crennell)

5. NT (Draft Jerrell Powe NT OLE MISS??)

5. Back up QB (Draft Round 3-5..Greg McElroy QB ALA. Smart, Smart kid, Has won a National Championship, could groom to take over later, posesses Characteristics Management like, and better than our current former ALA QB.



#1 Need in the offseason to address:
- WR opposite Dwayne Bowe!!!!

We need to Draft one in the 1st round (those available may be Julio Jones, Justin Blackmon, or Johnathan Baldwin, AJ Green Will be gone by time we pick) Only knock on these guys is their experience. Jones has the most playing experience 3 yrs I think and played in the SEC (which Haley and Pioli seem to like.)

I say this because I don't feel that the stagnant offensive production against the ravens can be pinned on the O-line (Let's remember..Cassel was one of the LEAST-Sacked QB's this season, we do need depth at the line but feel that the WR2 trumps the issues here as of now)


Let me know what you think...

Nope, don't need to draft a WR in the 1st round. There are many good receivers in the NFL that weren't taken in the 1st round. Look no further than Tampa Bay. Benn was a 2nd round pick in 2010 and Mike Williams was a 4th rounder in 2010. The list goes on and on. The Chiefs can get a good WR in the 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th round.

And nobody here is using only the Balt game as a reference regarding the O-Line. They got exposed against the Raiders and there were other games as well. If they have the best LT ( Sherrod ) available to them for the 2nd year in a row, they cannot pass him up this time. And Cassel may have been one of the least sacked QB's this season, but that was because of a cream-puff schedule & let's not forget Chiefs QB's were decked 14 times in the last 4 regular season games & 3 more against Balt. Sorry, but the 1st pick needs to go for a true LT.

Jrudi
01-10-2011, 08:05 PM
Ok Point taken, but there are just as many 1st round picks that are WR's that pan out to name a few in the past couple of years: Jeremy Maclin, Percy Harvin, Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Britt, Calvin Johnson, Santonio Holmes, Roddy White, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, etc. The draft is not an exact science, there are players that are busts at every position and there are players who were drafted in the 7th round that become studs at every position. You can argue the same point with your LT Sherrod. I have actually read, that this is the least talented pool of Tackles in years and none are as talented as the players taken in the last few drafts (Long, Smith, Okung, etc.) I've also read that Sherrod, Love, Camiri would be better suited to start out as right tackles.. Which is why I said to take Love in the 2nd round or Gilbert in the 3rd.

My point is that our #1 Priority should be to add a solid WR to line up opposite Dwayne Bowe, Weather it be 1st or 2nd round whatever, I believe Haley can coach whichever WR we pick up. Look at Bowe, since buying into what Haley wanted him to do... Pro Bowler. Haley knows receivers and can bring out the best in them, and I still feel that our biggest glaring need is a WR2.

Daylights
01-10-2011, 08:20 PM
Well. Now that the season is over. Lets start looking at the draft and free agency!

What are your top needs, and who do you want us to pick. It looks like we will be picking either at either 21, 22 or 23 (3 way tie between us Indy and the loser of the GB/Philly game, usu decided by a coin toss).

My top needs:

1. Elite FS
- By far the biggest weakness on our team. Berry will make a great SS. He has the skills to cover zone and man, and is great at coming up against the run. Other than him, we are horrible at safety. It may be better to get someone from free agency. Berry could use some experience to mentor him. (supposedly Champ Bailey wants out of Denver and wants to play FS to prolong his career).

2. OG and/or OC prospect.
-Our interior is getting old. Waters is still playing well, but is one injury away from retiring. Asamoah will likely be really good soon, but Weigmann is getting old, too. Id love to see our 3rd round pick used here.

3. #2 WR
- This will open up our offense immensely. Bowe is constantly double teamed. If he is one-on-one, he will get open. If they double him, then Moeaki, the #2 guy, and the run game will open up. I say draft someone in the 2nd round.

4. OLB
- Vrabel is getting old, isnt getting to the QB and is not the best cover man because he has lost a step. We need someone who is good in coverage, not just a rush guy. Our LBs couldnt keep up with the Ravens' TEs. This could probably be found in either the draft or in FA.

5. NT
- We dont have a true NT. Our DL is good, but Edwards is old and doesnt have the strength to hold up to 2x teams. We need a big beast in the middle. Not sure if there are any great NTs in the draft, or FA.

6. Backup QB
- I think we all agree that Brokie Croyle has lost most of his supporters. I say FA or a low round draft pick.

What are your thoughts?

Agree with all of these, although I would consider getting more than just a backup QB, someone good enough we can turn to if Cassel doesn't pan out.

chief31
01-10-2011, 09:06 PM
For me, as it has been for the past five offseasons, I put O-line at the top of the list.

I am no longer on the "have to find a LOT" trip. Albert isn't terrible, and we are probably not going to be in a position to get a better one in the draft.

But, with Weigmann and Waters, each, adding another year to their ages, and the ROT position looking to be in trouble, the needs there are obvious.

I really hate that we missed so many opportunities to get a top-flight LOT prospect. But what's done, is done.

Beyond that, I can't imagine how any position, aside from WR, can be mentioned next.

Whatever happened to Chambers, it is now clear that he can not be depended upon, and there really is nothing else after that, or it would have been clear by now.

We probably can't start Vrabel again, So someone has to fill that spot.

But I would be fine with Edwards at NT again, since we should be looking to fill the O-line, WR and OLB positions higher in the draft.

I think our D-line is actually very solid. They have given up rushing yards in some games, but only when we are going nickel-heavy to disrupt stellar passing attacks. (And against The Raiders)

And they are not expected to get to the QB very much.

So, for me, it's....

ROT, WR, C, OG, OLB.

Any other positions, I think we are looking for depth/developmental players.

brdempsey69
01-10-2011, 09:57 PM
Ok Point taken, but there are just as many 1st round picks that are WR's that pan out to name a few in the past couple of years: Jeremy Maclin, Percy Harvin, Hakeem Nicks, Kenny Britt, Calvin Johnson, Santonio Holmes, Roddy White, Larry Fitzgerald, Andre Johnson, etc. The draft is not an exact science, there are players that are busts at every position and there are players who were drafted in the 7th round that become studs at every position. You can argue the same point with your LT Sherrod. I have actually read, that this is the least talented pool of Tackles in years and none are as talented as the players taken in the last few drafts (Long, Smith, Okung, etc.) I've also read that Sherrod, Love, Camiri would be better suited to start out as right tackles.. Which is why I said to take Love in the 2nd round or Gilbert in the 3rd.

My point is that our #1 Priority should be to add a solid WR to line up opposite Dwayne Bowe, Weather it be 1st or 2nd round whatever, I believe Haley can coach whichever WR we pick up. Look at Bowe, since buying into what Haley wanted him to do... Pro Bowler. Haley knows receivers and can bring out the best in them, and I still feel that our biggest glaring need is a WR2.

I haven't read any such thing about Sherrod. All the reports that I've read are projecting him as a LT. And BTW, OT's have had a much lower bust rate in 1st round then WR's since 1990. And Sherrod is better than anyone the Chiefs have right now. People were saying last year that Bryan Bulaga wasn't good enough to play LT in the pros, but guess what? He's proven that he can play both Tackle and Guard positions with equal efficiency and he's been pretty darn good. I've watched him, closely in all the Packers games -- not to say he hasn't been beaten a few times, but he's gotten the job done when the Packers needed him to & prior to the start of the season, every Packer fan that I talked to was thrilled to have gotten him at #23 -- and Sherrod has more upside than Bulaga does.

I don't disagree that another wideout is needed. I do disagree about not looking at FA. Eddie Kennison was pretty good after the Chiefs picked him up. People talk about wanting Fitzgerald, but his teammate Steve Breaston ( who incidentley beat Eric Berry by 10 yards on one play that would've resulted in a Cardinal TD if the ball had been better thrown & he played under Todd Haley ) might become an unrestricted FA & if he does, the Chiefs should go after him. They wouldn't have to give up anything & get a guy who had 1000+ yards in 2008.

Chief Tyler
01-10-2011, 10:47 PM
1. WR - My personal favorite is Johnathan Baldwin. He's a huge, physical freak with decent hands. I'd think he's a decent choice to work with Cassel as we're not going to be much of a deep ball, gunslinger type team.

2. OLB - Need a better pass rush somewhere else besides Hali and corner/saftey blitzes. Mark Herzlich might be worth the risk in the middle rounds.

3. ILB - Belcher isn't a long term answer. Quan Sturdivent or Casey Matthews a little later.

4. OL Depth/C - Wiegmann and Waters won't be around much longer. I'm not sure what to think about Richardson. At the very least we could use some serviceable rookies to hopefully grow into a role.

5. NT - Hard to come by, but we need one.

6. QB - See ya later Brodie.

Coach
01-10-2011, 11:28 PM
My point is that our #1 Priority should be to add a solid WR to line up opposite Dwayne Bowe, Weather it be 1st or 2nd round whatever, I believe Haley can coach whichever WR we pick up. Look at Bowe, since buying into what Haley wanted him to do... Pro Bowler. Haley knows receivers and can bring out the best in them, and I still feel that our biggest glaring need is a WR2.

I believe the best WR strategy is free agency. It seems like WR has a very high bust% in the early rounds of a draft. Early Doucet, Steve Breaston, and Larry Fitzgerald are all fre agents this year in Arizona. I can't imagine that AZ will sign them all. They all have history with Haley, so Haley would know what he is getting. I'd rather pluck one of those guys out of FA rather than spend a 1st rd pick on a WR that has never played a down of NFL football. Although, I wouldn't be super opposed to doing both. This team has zero depth at WR. I think you could find a WR in rounds 2 or 3 that could come in and contribute right away.

Chiefster
01-10-2011, 11:42 PM
I'd like to see us snag Fitz for sure.

DMN
01-11-2011, 12:22 AM
I am very interested to see if we go after fitzgerald. I heard that we were right in there with negotiations for Boldin last offseason. My gut says we make a move for him. But we can rest assured that we will be adding WRs this offseason. With our current state I am curious to see how many we bring to camp.

But I still can't justify using a 1rst rounder on one... maybe if we are reaching for an O lineman and Jones is settin there.

I am curious to see how Sheffield comes into play this off season at LB.

LOBBS
01-11-2011, 04:08 AM
I've been saying since Lilja came back to town that he's a much better fit if he could move to center. He's played beside Saturday and Weigman his entire career so he's had to pick up a few tips. That would allow Asomoah to move to into the line-up at RG. We'd still need another strong prospect in the interior line whenever Waters decides to retire.

Richardson may or may not be an answer at RT but in reality this was his first full year of starting.

Definitely need a second WR. You just can't have opposing defenses double teaming Bowe all game because they have nothing to fear on the other side.

I like DJ and Belcher inside and Tamba outside but we've got to have another OLB to force the rush opposite Hali. I liked what I saw from Sheffield in the preseason, too bad he went down with an injury.

I think the secondary will be just fine given another season to grow together.

Jrudi
01-11-2011, 10:07 AM
I agree we can look to Free agency to help, but it hasn't treated us well recently.

Yeah Chiefs have had good success with later round WR's in the drafts the past 5 years: Quinten Lawrence, Will Franklin, Kevin Robinson, Jeff Webb, Craphonso Thorpe....Any of them pan out or even on the team besides Lawrence? (I think he's on the Practice squad)

and have also had success in Free Agency the past few years: Chambers, Amanni Toomer, Lance Long, Bobby Wade, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram, Kevin Curtis... Yeah right.

Fitzgerald is not a Free Agent this year, his contract expires after next season so we would have to trade for him. I wouldn't mind landing Breastin or Doucett, But with the way Haley and Pioli think, they like to draft young talent and groom them or "develop" their young players within the organization.

We still need to add a talented young WR worthy of a Higher round pick. You only hear about the 1st round players that don't work out because of the expectations there. You don't hear about the players in rounds 2-7 that don't work out because there is not as much investment. If you look around the league and look at the past 5 drafts, I bet you 75% of the 1st round picks are solid contributors to their team (not necessarily stand out stars, solid contributors what the Chiefs look for and would be good production for a WR2) and 25% of the players are complete busts. There are diamonds in the rough to be found, but there is a reason prospects are picked in the 1st and 2nd rounds.

brdempsey69
01-11-2011, 11:19 AM
I agree we can look to Free agency to help, but it hasn't treated us well recently.

Yeah Chiefs have had good success with later round WR's in the drafts the past 5 years: Quinten Lawrence, Will Franklin, Kevin Robinson, Jeff Webb, Craphonso Thorpe....Any of them pan out or even on the team besides Lawrence? (I think he's on the Practice squad)



Who said anything about later rounds? We said 2nd or 3rd round. This WR draft class in 2011 is one of deepest in years. There isn't any need to push the panic button & spend a 1st round pick on a WR if they have a quality O-Lineman like Sherrod staring them in the face, just because of this one game against the Ravens -- they've been blanketing opposing teams passing games all year long. As we saw in the season final against the Raiders, if Cassel is lying flat on his back all game long, it doesn't matter who's playing WR. All of those guys that you listed above were all projects, not established stars in college.


and have also had success in Free Agency the past few years: Chambers, Amanni Toomer, Lance Long, Bobby Wade, Mark Bradley, Bobby Engram, Kevin Curtis... Yeah right.


And how many of those guys were established starters that were in their prime in the NFL? Not one. Every one of them was a stop gap measure. They wound up with KC because nobody else wanted them.


Fitzgerald is not a Free Agent this year, his contract expires after next season so we would have to trade for him. I wouldn't mind landing Breastin or Doucett, But with the way Haley and Pioli think, they like to draft young talent and groom them or "develop" their young players within the organization.

And yet, they've already brought over Pope and Urban from the Cards, because Haley knew what he was getting. As for drafting young talent, they've been long overdue to do that for the O-Line since Willie Roaf and Will Shields retired. It's time to shore up the O-Line or else Cassel will be a sitting duck next year when they have to play a tough schedule.




We still need to add a talented young WR worthy of a Higher round pick. You only hear about the 1st round players that don't work out because of the expectations there. You don't hear about the players in rounds 2-7 that don't work out because there is not as much investment. If you look around the league and look at the past 5 drafts, I bet you 75% of the 1st round picks are solid contributors to their team (not necessarily stand out stars, solid contributors what the Chiefs look for and would be good production for a WR2) and 25% of the players are complete busts. There are diamonds in the rough to be found, but there is a reason prospects are picked in the 1st and 2nd rounds.

And here's one mock draft projecting a WR to the Chiefs in the 2nd round. Look at pick #55:

2011 NFL Mock Draft: Round Two Picks 49-64 | NE Patriots Draft (http://www.nepatriotsdraft.com/2010/06/2011-nfl-mock-draft-round-two-part-two.html)

I'll agree that a 2nd WR is needed, but it is not the top priority to the point of spending a 1st round pick on. The O-Line most certainly is -- they got exposed too many times in 2010 & it's not going to get any better with a tougher schedule in 2011.

Jrudi
01-11-2011, 12:19 PM
Now I remember why I stopped taking part in these Forums, I'm turning into the type of person I hate, wasting my time arguing with people that have no lives that spend it watching stupid crap that doesn't matter like forums and facebook. I'm going to get back to my real life and work for that matter but before I go one last time...


I agree we need to upgrade the line, but as of now we have starters in place for next year or at least options at the positions (unless anyone retires) but should still look to upgrade somewhere like you should every off-season.

Who is our starter at WR2?? I can't think of anyone on our team who could contribute at that position. which is why I feel like we need to upgrade at the position. If a guy that was setting on his couch watching football the week before can come in and start a playoff game for you the week he is signed it's not a good thing for your team or that position group, if we did the same thing with our right tackle or guard I would say that was a pretty big issue as well. I don't know what scenario could make it more glaring of a need..

at least the guys from the KC star agree with me (An article on the site today about upgrading the WR's) and the WR's recieved a "C" grade tied for the lowest grade of any position given this season.

You have your opinion, I have mine, we will see how it turns out in a few months, regardless we have work to do at either position to contend for a championship.

agreed?

pbatrucker
01-11-2011, 12:26 PM
Just curious why Sherrod is so high on the list? Yes he is versitale, but is the 8th rated OT according to Scouts INC.
From my research so far, there might not be an immediate stater available in this years draft at OT. I'm not against taking an OT in the 1st, but would want a good one.

Ryfo18
01-11-2011, 12:26 PM
Now I remember why I stopped taking part in these Forums, I'm turning into the type of person I hate, wasting my time arguing with people that have no lives that spend it watching stupid crap that doesn't matter like forums and facebook. I'm going to get back to my real life and work for that matter but before I go one last time...


I agree we need to upgrade the line, but as of now we have starters in place for next year or at least options at the positions (unless anyone retires) but should still look to upgrade somewhere like you should every off-season.

Who is our starter at WR2?? I can't think of anyone on our team who could contribute at that position. which is why I feel like we need to upgrade at the position. If a guy that was setting on his couch watching football the week before can come in and start a playoff game for you the week he is signed it's not a good thing for your team or that position group, if we did the same thing with our right tackle or guard I would say that was a pretty big issue as well. I don't know what scenario could make it more glaring of a need..

at least the guys from the KC star agree with me (An article on the site today about upgrading the WR's) and the WR's recieved a "C" grade tied for the lowest grade of any position given this season.

You have your opinion, I have mine, we will see how it turns out in a few months, regardless we have work to do at either position to contend for a championship.

agreed?

I agree with your analysis on the WR position. It is definitely the position of the most need. If we're not reaching for a WR in the first round, I don't see why they we wouldn't take a WR. Maybe Julio Jones falls to us, I couldn't argue not taking him.

As far as the first comment, I don't see the need to take a shot at someone's hobby. I'm sure you have your hobbies that other people could care less about. My membership and participation in a forum about my favorite NFL football team does not imply me, or anyone else "not having a life."

Ryfo18
01-11-2011, 12:33 PM
Just curious why Sherrod is so high on the list? Yes he is versitale, but is the 8th rated OT according to Scouts INC.
From my research so far, there might not be an immediate stater available in this years draft at OT. I'm not against taking an OT in the 1st, but would want a good one.

If we do, he's most likely going to play RT. The team is happy with Albert at LT, and while he isn't the greatest LT in the league, he's certainly not the worst. I see the line struggling more short-term by having a rookie LT and moving Albert to a brand-new position. It would be counter productive. I know, guard was his college position, but the guy has played LT two years now in the zone-blocking scheme the Chiefs have implemented and his role would change a lot by moving. Asamoah is likely the future replacement for Waters, so adding another tackle and center in the draft (in the later rounds like Pioli always does) is probably the route they will go.

Jrudi
01-11-2011, 12:33 PM
I Apologize, I just got frustrated.

Jrudi
01-11-2011, 12:38 PM
If we do, he's most likely going to play RT. The team is happy with Albert at LT, and while he isn't the greatest LT in the league, he's certainly not the worst. I see the line struggling more short-term by having a rookie LT and moving Albert to a brand-new position. It would be counter productive. I know, guard was his college position, but the guy has played LT two years now in the zone-blocking scheme the Chiefs have implemented and his role would change a lot by moving. Asamoah is likely the future replacement for Waters, so adding another tackle and center in the draft (in the later rounds like Pioli always does) is probably the route they will go.


I completely agree with this comment, and is the exact reason I feel we will add a Tackle like Demarcus Love or Marcus Gilbert in the 2nd or 3rd rounds if available, and as far as centers I haven't found much info on an good prospects for this draft class...

anyone know of any? I think there is a SR from Mizzou who is projected in rounds 3-5 I think, anyone know of any?

brdempsey69
01-11-2011, 12:43 PM
Just curious why Sherrod is so high on the list? Yes he is versitale, but is the 8th rated OT according to Scouts INC.
From my research so far, there might not be an immediate stater available in this years draft at OT. I'm not against taking an OT in the 1st, but would want a good one.

Other scouting reports do have him #1. Here's one:

NFL Draft - 2011_OT Draft Prospects - CBSSports.com - NFLDraftScout.com (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospectrankings/TSX/2011_OT)

And on their overall list for 2011, he's ranked #2, but it does not include juniors who declared.

Costanzo of BC is also a consideration at OT. He handled Bowers of Clemson very well & Bowers is rated the #1 player by Scouts Inc.

pbatrucker
01-11-2011, 12:44 PM
Really it's going to come down to who is available and how they fill our needs in the 1st rd.
If Julio Jones or Jon Bladwin is available and Pioli says he likes one ok, we get a WR.
If Akem Ayers or another rush LB is available and fills our need best or an OT or another position for that matter.
In PIoli and his system we must trust. So far so good, although we haven't agreed with everry move he's made, you can't argue with his results so far.
If we are going to play physical football, we need to get the personnel to get physical in the trenches.

Coach
01-11-2011, 12:48 PM
Now I remember why I stopped taking part in these Forums, I'm turning into the type of person I hate, wasting my time arguing with people that have no lives that spend it watching stupid crap that doesn't matter like forums and facebook. I'm going to get back to my real life and work for that matter but before I go one last time...


I agree we need to upgrade the line, but as of now we have starters in place for next year or at least options at the positions (unless anyone retires) but should still look to upgrade somewhere like you should every off-season.

Who is our starter at WR2?? I can't think of anyone on our team who could contribute at that position. which is why I feel like we need to upgrade at the position. If a guy that was setting on his couch watching football the week before can come in and start a playoff game for you the week he is signed it's not a good thing for your team or that position group, if we did the same thing with our right tackle or guard I would say that was a pretty big issue as well. I don't know what scenario could make it more glaring of a need..

at least the guys from the KC star agree with me (An article on the site today about upgrading the WR's) and the WR's recieved a "C" grade tied for the lowest grade of any position given this season.

You have your opinion, I have mine, we will see how it turns out in a few months, regardless we have work to do at either position to contend for a championship.

agreed?

I think we all agree that this team needs help at WR. Just different opinions of when and how to acquire them. No one is right or wrong, this forum is simply that. A forum to discuss ideas on all things Chiefs. Nobody is attacking your strategy. But other people are also allowed to have their own strategy.

How about this for instance. I would say that WR is our single biggest need, but I still wouldn't spend a 1st rounder on it. The drop off in talent at WR from rounds 1 and 2 is just not that great. Look at past drafts, very rarely are there more than 2-3 WR's taken in the first round. In 2010, there were 2. Demaryius Thomas(bust so far), Dez Bryant(Special Teams, #3 WR).

In 2009, there were several good WR's that went in the first round. Great year for WR's not only in the 1st round.

In 2008, there were no WR's taken in the 1st rd.

In 2007, Chiefs took Dwayne Bowe, Miami took Tedd Ginn, Lions took Calvin Johnson, Saints took Robert Meachem, Chargers took Craig Davis, Colts took Anthony Gonzalez. Calvin and Bowe are the only two that panned out after 3 years.

I think a strategy of getting a known commodity through free agency, then taking a WR in rounds 2 or 3 gives the Chiefs the best chance to adding DEPTH at WR and upside potential.

2010 NFL Draft Results Round 1 | 2010 NFL Draft Results | NFL Draft Results (http://www.mynfldraft.com/2010-NFL-Draft-Results/)
2009 NFL Draft Results Round 1 | 2009 NFL Draft Results | NFL Draft Results (http://www.mynfldraft.com/2009-NFL-Draft-Results/)
2008 NFL Draft Results Round 1 | 2008 NFL Draft Results | NFL Draft Results (http://www.mynfldraft.com/2008-NFL-Draft-Results/)
http://www.mynfldraft.com/2007

DMN
01-11-2011, 01:05 PM
Bottom line is people will always see a different path to get to the same goal. And a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. Cassel having time to throw and people to throw to are musts... question is which one do we address first?

I am starting to buy into Piolis' "right 53" only because great franchises seem to get 110% from otherwise mediocre players, and I believe it comes from the "team first" mentality. So I think he can go any number of ways in the first round but ultimately will pick a "high character" guy that fits our system first and foremost...

I know everyone is as excited about this offseason as I am and for the first time we don't have holes in every position. But this kind of talk is ultimately futile until we let free agency run its course.

wilqb16
01-11-2011, 01:09 PM
I am glad to talk about needs for next season after a frustrating and disappointing Sunday.

I think Kendrick Lewis is the answer at FS, so I don't see secondary as a need at all.

I do think we need help on the O-line, particularly I think we need to draft an LT and then work from there to find the best configuration in camp with what we have left. I also think a center might be a good idea because Wiegmann is long in the tooth.

We definitely need help at WR but I think I would look to this in free agency. I really, REALLY hope we make a run at Fitzgerald. I would trade our #1 for Fitzgerald and hope to pick up a LOT or NT in the 2nd round.

Also, we need help at NT. Of course, these are tough to find. If there is a good NT prospect on the board at #21, I would go there and address LOT in FA.

Finally, I think we need help at OLB - Vrabel is a smart and will make a great coach but physically he just isn't making as many plays as we need him to make.

brdempsey69
01-11-2011, 01:28 PM
If we do, he's most likely going to play RT. The team is happy with Albert at LT, and while he isn't the greatest LT in the league, he's certainly not the worst.

Oh really? Then why was the Chiefs O-Line coach wanting them to draft Russel Okung last year?

Chiefs Coach Wanted Russell Okung | KC Chiefs Blog (http://www.kcchiefsblog.com/draft/chiefs-coach-wanted-russell-okung)

That article was also posted on the Seahawks web site, so it's confirmed, not speculation. And Albert regressed badly at the end of the end of this season. If they are happy with that, they are complete, utter fools.



I see the line struggling more short-term by having a rookie LT and moving Albert to a brand-new position. It would be counter productive.


Sorry, but I don't believe that for one minute. I really believe Albert would flourish at the LG position. Keeping Albert at LT is what's really counter productive. And who says that a good rookie LT can't come in and help an O-Line be productive? Look no further than the guy mentioned above, Russell Okung, and do take note that the Seahawks are advancing in the post-season and the Chiefs aren't & it can traced to the great pass protection Okung gave Hasselbeck in the Hawks game against the Saints. Albert has proven that he can't get it done for the Chiefs QB's when the Chiefs fall behind and have to throw the ball.



I know, guard was his college position, but the guy has played LT two years now in the zone-blocking scheme the Chiefs have implemented and his role would change a lot by moving


His play at LT has not been good enough those two years, having his role change by moving him to Guard to take over Waters spot would not only be an upgrade, it would change his role for the better.




Asamoah is likely the future replacement for Waters....



They'd be better served to plug Asamoah into Right Guard as Lilja is too small and, as somebody else suggested, move Lilja to Center.



...so adding another tackle and center in the draft (in the later rounds like Pioli always does) is probably the route they will go.



And one and done in the post-season is the route that the Chiefs will be going ( if they make it back to the post season in the first place ), as long as Pioli keeps up with that trend.

Ryfo18
01-11-2011, 01:40 PM
We've beat the deadhorse on our OL play all year, so I'll be brief and agree to disagree.

1.) The Chiefs wanting Russel Okung in no way signals that the Chiefs aren't happy with Branden Albert, it's just that Muir thought Okung was a stud. Agreed, Okung has played awesome and is an upgrade from Albert.

2.) Your solution to our Oline needs is Russel Okung, as that's who you continually cite. Is there a prospect out there of Okung's caliber that will be available at 21? I doubt it.

3.) I don't think the solution to fixing the Chiefs is completely revamping the Oline in one offseason and replace a line that was first in the league in rushing and also were one of the best in sacks taken.

4.) I can make the same argument about one and done in the offseason. Michael Roos, Jake Long, Ryan Clady and Joe Thomas sure have guided their teams to big playoff runs, haven't they?

5.) Lilja played very solid this year. Why move a 7-year veteran at guard to center? This seems like a rare occurance in the NFL.

The coaching staff has proved that they can coach up the O-line to be one of the best in the league. Hell, Madden has them up for one of the top 5 lines in the league this year, but knows jack about football right?

brdempsey69
01-11-2011, 02:26 PM
We've beat the deadhorse on our OL play all year, so I'll be brief and agree to disagree.


Dead horse? Not hardly. It's very much a big elephant in the room that needs to be addressed. They got by with smoke and mirrors this year & the last 2 games showed that the smoke has left the building.


1.) The Chiefs wanting Russel Okung in no way signals that the Chiefs aren't happy with Branden Albert, it's just that Muir thought Okung was a stud. Agreed, Okung has played awesome and is an upgrade from Albert.


Since when has a team ever wanted to draft a player to replace a young player that they are happy with? I've never heard of it, simply because it's never happened.



2.) Your solution to our Oline needs is Russel Okung, as that's who you continually cite. Is there a prospect out there of Okung's caliber that will be available at 21? I doubt it.


I used Okung as an example and he was a player the Chiefs could have drafted. As for this year, the LT's that are available may not be as heralded as Okung was, but that doesn't mean they can't come in and upgrade the LT position. Sherrod has good size, footwork, and his strength is handling speed-rushers. He's not as strong as Okung, but some off-season weight training would be all he needs.



3.) I don't think the solution to fixing the Chiefs is completely revamping the Oline in one offseason and replace a line that was first in the league in rushing and also were one of the best in sacks taken.


You can't be totally blind to the fact that is was obviously due to an easy schedule. They are not going to have that luxury next year. Weigmann and Waters are at the trail end and they are going to have revamp the O-Line whether anyone thinks they need to or not.



4.) I can make the same argument about one and done in the offseason. Michael Roos, Jake Long, Ryan Clady and Joe Thomas sure have guided their teams to big playoff runs, haven't they?


LOL, that's not even remotely close to being a valid arguement. Do you realize how many examples I could list of teams that did advance with solid LT's? A blind man man with a cane can easily see that if the Chiefs want to advance in the post season, then they do need to revamp the O-Line.



5.) Lilja played very solid this year. Why move a 7-year veteran at guard to center? This seems like a rare occurance in the NFL.


As already mentioned, he's too small to go against bigger DT's. He couldn't handle the Raiders Tommy Kelly, and guys like Suh will kill him next year. It may not be a common occurrence changing positions, but it has happened, and it would be for the better.



The coaching staff has proved that they can coach up the O-line to be one of the best in the league. Hell, Madden has them up for one of the top 5 lines in the league this year, but knows jack about football right?



No they simply got by with an easy schedule, and luck avoiding the injury bug. Madden is basing that on numbers alone & those numbers came from an easy schedule. Along the same line of Waters being voted to the Pro Bowl.

Coach
01-11-2011, 02:39 PM
Dead horse? Not hardly. It's very much a big elephant in the room that needs to be addressed. They got by with smoke and mirrors this year & the last 2 games showed that the smoke has left the building.



Since when has a team ever wanted to draft a player to replace a young player that they are happy with? I've never heard of it, simply because it's never happened.



I used Okung as an example and he was a player the Chiefs could have drafted. As for this year, the LT's that are available may not be as heralded as Okung was, but that doesn't mean they can't come in and upgrade the LT position. Sherrod has good size, footwork, and his strength is handling speed-rushers. He's not as strong as Okung, but some off-season weight training would be all he needs.



You can't be totally blind to the fact that is was obviously due to an easy schedule. They are not going to have that luxury next year. Weigmann and Waters are at the trail end and they are going to have revamp the O-Line whether anyone thinks they need to or not.



LOL, that's not even remotely close to being a valid arguement. Do you realize how many examples I could list of teams that did advance with solid LT's? A blind man man with a cane can easily see that if the Chiefs want to advance in the post season, then they do need to revamp the O-Line.



As already mentioned, he's too small to go against bigger DT's. He couldn't handle the Raiders Tommy Kelly, and guys like Suh will kill him next year. It may not be a common occurrence changing positions, but it has happened, and it would be for the better.



No they simply got by with an easy schedule, and luck avoiding the injury bug. Madden is basing that on numbers alone & those numbers came from an easy schedule. Along the same line of Waters being voted to the Pro Bowl.

Major props on your use of multi-quote. Wow.

bwilliams
01-11-2011, 03:01 PM
Just got back. This was a pretty great season, even though it fell apart in the last two games. I'm not going to say that our record is just because of the easy schedule, but we certainly shouldn't be thinking we're going to stay in 1st place without some upgrades.

Our FA pickups (Smith, Lilja, Wiegmann, and Jones) did a whole lot better than I could have imagined, but unfortunately we still have most the same holes as we had last offseason. We need, in no particular order:

1. A legimate pass rusher at LB across from Hali. This is our biggest need. Von Miller or Akeem Ayres should drop. We need to avoid the Herm-era mistake of assuming one great player can continually do the work of two good ones.

2. Upgrades on the OL. I think the Raiders and Ravens games showed us that our OL can hold up against bad pass rushes, even good ones destroy them. Wiegmann and Waters are at the end of their careers. Lilja is undersized and was abused the last few weeks of the season. Richardson is a backup. O'Callaghan should be taken out and shot. Let's draft a RT in the 2nd and some inside youth late.

3. A new NT. Ron Edwards was the best surprise of the season not named DJ, but enough's enough. Get a legit long-term starter at the position or abandon the 3-

4. Legit WRs. Chambers is done. McCluster didn't look remotely worth his 2nd round pick. Curtis was a stopgap. And Copper/Lawrence/Tucker are special teams guys at best. We need at least two new starting WRs for next season.

5. A strong safety. While Berry had his moments, and I think he was worth the pick last season, he is just not good as a SS. Move him to FS already, make Lewis his backup, move McGraw back to special teams, and get a legit SS for that spot.

6. A new second CB. I like Brandon Carr. He plays hard, and he gets a lot of passes thrown his way because of Flowers on the other side. But he just isn't getting the job done.

7. A blocking TE. So long as Moeaki is healthy, we're set there. But a nice big blocking TE would be helpful while the line rebuilds.

8. Depth at ILB. DJ and Belcher both look like keepers, but we have nothing behind them.

9. Backup QB. Enough with Croyle. I didn't like him before the season, and I loathe him now. Get a real QB to back Cassel up.

10. A new OC. Don't do it Haley. Do not decide to call the plays yourself next season.

matthewschiefs
01-11-2011, 03:17 PM
Oh really? Then why was the Chiefs O-Line coach wanting them to draft Russel Okung last year?

Chiefs Coach Wanted Russell Okung | KC Chiefs Blog (http://www.kcchiefsblog.com/draft/chiefs-coach-wanted-russell-okung)

That article was also posted on the Seahawks web site, so it's confirmed, not speculation. And Albert regressed badly at the end of the end of this season. If they are happy with that, they are complete, utter fools.



Sorry, but I don't believe that for one minute. I really believe Albert would flourish at the LG position. Keeping Albert at LT is what's really counter productive. And who says that a good rookie LT can't come in and help an O-Line be productive? Look no further than the guy mentioned above, Russell Okung, and do take note that the Seahawks are advancing in the post-season and the Chiefs aren't & it can traced to the great pass protection Okung gave Hasselbeck in the Hawks game against the Saints. Albert has proven that he can't get it done for the Chiefs QB's when the Chiefs fall behind and have to throw the ball.



His play at LT has not been good enough those two years, having his role change by moving him to Guard to take over Waters spot would not only be an upgrade, it would change his role for the better.



They'd be better served to plug Asamoah into Right Guard as Lilja is too small and, as somebody else suggested, move Lilja to Center.



And one and done in the post-season is the route that the Chiefs will be going ( if they make it back to the post season in the first place ), as long as Pioli keeps up with that trend.

Every coach wants us to draft guys at there postions. Coaches want a new toy. They want someone new to work with to help improve that postion. That's nothing new it's happend for years in the NFL


I really don't understand all this talk to move albert. He played good this season and will continue to get better. He is still a young player. This was his 3rd year it was a year that he HAD to show improvement and he DID. Hei is just fine where he is.

We do need to get younger on the o line i agree. But I don't think we need to change anyone postions. That would be a step backwards IMO

matthewschiefs
01-11-2011, 03:22 PM
Just got back. This was a pretty great season, even though it fell apart in the last two games. I'm not going to say that our record is just because of the easy schedule, but we certainly shouldn't be thinking we're going to stay in 1st place without some upgrades.

Our FA pickups (Smith, Lilja, Wiegmann, and Jones) did a whole lot better than I could have imagined, but unfortunately we still have most the same holes as we had last offseason. We need, in no particular order:

1. A legimate pass rusher at LB across from Hali. This is our biggest need. Von Miller or Akeem Ayres should drop. We need to avoid the Herm-era mistake of assuming one great player can continually do the work of two good ones.

2. Upgrades on the OL. I think the Raiders and Ravens games showed us that our OL can hold up against bad pass rushes, even good ones destroy them. Wiegmann and Waters are at the end of their careers. Lilja is undersized and was abused the last few weeks of the season. Richardson is a backup. O'Callaghan should be taken out and shot. Let's draft a RT in the 2nd and some inside youth late.

3. A new NT. Ron Edwards was the best surprise of the season not named DJ, but enough's enough. Get a legit long-term starter at the position or abandon the 3-

4. Legit WRs. Chambers is done. McCluster didn't look remotely worth his 2nd round pick. Curtis was a stopgap. And Copper/Lawrence/Tucker are special teams guys at best. We need at least two new starting WRs for next season.

5. A strong safety. While Berry had his moments, and I think he was worth the pick last season, he is just not good as a SS. Move him to FS already, make Lewis his backup, move McGraw back to special teams, and get a legit SS for that spot.

6. A new second CB. I like Brandon Carr. He plays hard, and he gets a lot of passes thrown his way because of Flowers on the other side. But he just isn't getting the job done.

7. A blocking TE. So long as Moeaki is healthy, we're set there. But a nice big blocking TE would be helpful while the line rebuilds.

8. Depth at ILB. DJ and Belcher both look like keepers, but we have nothing behind them.

9. Backup QB. Enough with Croyle. I didn't like him before the season, and I loathe him now. Get a real QB to back Cassel up.

10. A new OC. Don't do it Haley. Do not decide to call the plays yourself next season.

Agree with you for the most part just a couple of disagreements.
1. I think you move WR over NT. I think we need help at both but I just think we need Help at the WR spot more then NT assumeing we do get that pass rusher to go with Hali

2. I don't want to move Berry. He got better as the season went along. This was his rookie year It's NOT time to move him. We need to see how he contiues to devolpe then decided if we need to move him or not. One season is not long enought to say that he is not a good SS

brdempsey69
01-11-2011, 04:12 PM
Every coach wants us to draft guys at there postions. Coaches want a new toy. They want someone new to work with to help improve that postion. That's nothing new it's happend for years in the NFL



Sorry, but I've already heard that line of BS, and that's just what it is -- a line of BS. We're not talking about wanting to add players to a unit. We're talking the 5th overall pick in the draft, because the Chiefs O-Line coach saw it as need, to get a real LT -- and it still is a need, I don't care what anybody says.



I really don't understand all this talk to move albert. He played good this season and will continue to get better. He is still a young player. This was his 3rd year it was a year that he HAD to show improvement and he DID. Hei is just fine where he is.



He played good against whom? Dwight Freeney? The Raiders? The Chargers at SD? The Ravens? NO, he did not show improvement, he regressed toward the end and showed he's as good as he ever going to be at LT and it isn't good enough. After the 2nd Raiders game, one person posted here suggesting they cut him and, although I wouldn't go that far, it clearly showed that when the Chiefs get behind & have to throw the ball against teams that can rush the passer, he can't provide good pass protection needed for their passing game to work. That was also illustrated in the 2nd SD game as well against the Ravens. He's a Guard playing out of position at LT, and it's not working against teams that can rush the passer.



We do need to get younger on the o line i agree. But I don't think we need to change anyone postions. That would be a step backwards


I don't believe that for one minute. Getting a legit LT that can pass-block & moving Albert to LG would clearly be moving forward. Leaving Albert at LT is what is going to be stepping backwards when they face a much tougher schedule this next year.

Fastphilly
01-11-2011, 04:22 PM
We need to go after Breaston..AZ has another year before Fritz is a free agent and I'm sure they will slap the tag on him. I'd like to see the Chiefs go after Gabe Carimi. He has a monster build and is considered one of the top OL prospects in the draft..I know it's wishful thinking since Somebody will snag him before our turn comes up.

matthewschiefs
01-11-2011, 04:42 PM
I think we all agree that this team needs help at WR. Just different opinions of when and how to acquire them. No one is right or wrong, this forum is simply that. A forum to discuss ideas on all things Chiefs. Nobody is attacking your strategy. But other people are also allowed to have their own strategy.

How about this for instance. I would say that WR is our single biggest need, but I still wouldn't spend a 1st rounder on it. The drop off in talent at WR from rounds 1 and 2 is just not that great. Look at past drafts, very rarely are there more than 2-3 WR's taken in the first round. In 2010, there were 2. Demaryius Thomas(bust so far), Dez Bryant(Special Teams, #3 WR).

In 2009, there were several good WR's that went in the first round. Great year for WR's not only in the 1st round.

In 2008, there were no WR's taken in the 1st rd.

In 2007, Chiefs took Dwayne Bowe, Miami took Tedd Ginn, Lions took Calvin Johnson, Saints took Robert Meachem, Chargers took Craig Davis, Colts took Anthony Gonzalez. Calvin and Bowe are the only two that panned out after 3 years.

I think a strategy of getting a known commodity through free agency, then taking a WR in rounds 2 or 3 gives the Chiefs the best chance to adding DEPTH at WR and upside potential.

2010 NFL Draft Results Round 1 | 2010 NFL Draft Results | NFL Draft Results (http://www.mynfldraft.com/2010-NFL-Draft-Results/)
2009 NFL Draft Results Round 1 | 2009 NFL Draft Results | NFL Draft Results (http://www.mynfldraft.com/2009-NFL-Draft-Results/)
2008 NFL Draft Results Round 1 | 2008 NFL Draft Results | NFL Draft Results (http://www.mynfldraft.com/2008-NFL-Draft-Results/)
http://www.mynfldraft.com/2007

I agree with that but I would like to bring someone proven in I think we need help right away and to draft a wr to have help going forward.

brdempsey69
01-11-2011, 04:48 PM
We need to go after Breaston..AZ has another year before Fritz is a free agent and I'm sure they will slap the tag on him. I'd like to see the Chiefs go after Gabe Carimi. He has a monster build and is considered one of the top OL prospects in the draft..I know it's wishful thinking since Somebody will snag him before our turn comes up.

Carimi is an interesting guy & he might very well be there at #21, if they want him. From what I've read, his pass-blocking skills improved as the 2010 season progressed and he's a killer run blocker. And, yes, size wise, he's a monster with great mobility and defenders don't overpower him.

matthewschiefs
01-11-2011, 04:51 PM
Sorry, but I've already heard that line of BS, and that's just what it is -- a line of BS. We're not talking about wanting to add players to a unit. We're talking the 5th overall pick in the draft, because the Chiefs O-Line coach saw it as need, to get a real LT -- and it still is a need, I don't care what anybody says.



He played good against whom? Dwight Freeney? The Raiders? The Chargers at SD? The Ravens? NO, he did not show improvement, he regressed toward the end and showed he's as good as he ever going to be at LT and it isn't good enough. After the 2nd Raiders game, one person posted here suggesting they cut him and, although I wouldn't go that far, it clearly showed that when the Chiefs get behind & have to throw the ball against teams that can rush the passer, he can't provide good pass protection needed for their passing game to work. That was also illustrated in the 2nd SD game as well against the Ravens. He's a Guard playing out of position at LT, and it's not working against teams that can rush the passer.



I don't believe that for one minute. Getting a legit LT that can pass-block & moving Albert to LG would clearly be moving forward. Leaving Albert at LT is what is going to be stepping backwards when they face a much tougher schedule this next year.


It's not bS it's just how it is. The fact that ONE coach wanted him does not mean it's a can't miss move. The FACT is that since we went away from him our coach gm and scouts felt that he was not the best for this team.

So Albert is the only one that struggled in those games? I could have sworn there were 10 other guys on the field as well. Albert was part of that. You mentioned 4 games out of 17. So for the most part the O line did there job and YES Albert was a part of that. And I could have sworn we had the NUMBER 1 RUSHING GAME IN THE NFL. Yes Charles deserves credit but he didn't do it alone.

Changine postions would be a step back for Albert. Yes he has played Other postions in the past but not in the NFL. He would have to take time to devolpe at ANY new postion in the NFL. The NFL is a huge jump from college. That's just fact.

Not sure why this post was made twice computers been acting funny today lol

matthewschiefs
01-11-2011, 05:04 PM
We need to go after Breaston..AZ has another year before Fritz is a free agent and I'm sure they will slap the tag on him. I'd like to see the Chiefs go after Gabe Carimi. He has a monster build and is considered one of the top OL prospects in the draft..I know it's wishful thinking since Somebody will snag him before our turn comes up.

I really don't think we are going to go after fritz his price would just be to big. I saw on ESPN a couple of days ago that he was working on resigning with the Cards I don't think that he will be going anywere this year.

bwilliams
01-11-2011, 05:07 PM
Agree with you for the most part just a couple of disagreements.
1. I think you move WR over NT. I think we need help at both but I just think we need Help at the WR spot more then NT assumeing we do get that pass rusher to go with Hali

2. I don't want to move Berry. He got better as the season went along. This was his rookie year It's NOT time to move him. We need to see how he contiues to devolpe then decided if we need to move him or not. One season is not long enought to say that he is not a good SS

I wasn't listing in order. I agree that getting a legit WR opposite Bowe is extremey important. I know he was a malcontent this season and maybe prohibitively expensive, but we should look at Vincent Jackson.

I think Berry was wasted at SS this season. We didn't draft him to be the new Bernard Pollard - we drafted him to be Ed Reed.

matthewschiefs
01-11-2011, 05:09 PM
I wasn't listing in order. I agree that getting a legit WR opposite Bowe is extremey important. I know he was a malcontent this season and maybe prohibitively expensive, but we should look at Vincent Jackson.

I think Berry was wasted at SS this season. We didn't draft him to be the new Bernard Pollard - we drafted him to be Ed Reed.

Yeah i read that after i posted that Guess my reading skills are not at there peak today :lol:

brdempsey69
01-11-2011, 05:15 PM
It's not bS it's just how it is. The fact that ONE coach wanted him does not mean it's a can't miss move. The FACT is that since we went away from him our coach gm and scouts felt that he was not the best for this team.

No, they went away from Okung because they knew a majority of fans were clamoring for Eric Berry. That was broadcast all over place that Berry was the fan favorite, and season ticket sales are lower than they've been in over 20 years. Clark Hunt had the final say on the pick. They went with the fan favorite in 2010 because of the unpopularity of the Tyson Jackson pick the year before. That too, was broadcast all over the place.



So Albert is the only one that struggled in those games? I could have sworn there were 10 other guys on the field as well. Albert was part of that. You mentioned 4 games out of 17. So for the most part the O line did there job and YES Albert was a part of that. And I could have sworn we had the NUMBER 1 RUSHING GAME IN THE NFL. Yes Charles deserves credit but he didn't do it alone.


How many times does it have spelled out that what they did was against a very easy schedule? Do you think it'll be 4 out of 17 against a tougher schedule next year? Highly doubtful. Run blocking isn't a problem for Albert, it's pass protection against the leagues better pass rushers. Oh, and lets not forget his inexcusable false start after a Chiefs timeout, that stalled a drive and negated a chance for the Chiefs to seize a foothold in the Ravens game.



Changine postions would be a step back for Albert. Yes he has played Other postions in the past but not in the NFL. He would have to take time to devolpe at ANY new postion in the NFL. The NFL is a huge jump from college. That's just fact.


You can't be serious, because that's absolute BS. Peoples exhibit A: 1999 1st round draftee John Tait. He never played RT in college or in the NFL, but where did the Chiefs move him to when Willie Roaf joined the team in 2002? That's right, RT. Did he struggle at the RT position? Nope, he played so well that Chicago offered him a huge contract to jump to them via FA. No way would it be a step backward to move Albert to a position that he's already played. It would clearly be an upgrade to the Guard position & a step forward.

matthewschiefs
01-11-2011, 05:31 PM
No, they went away from Okung because they knew a majority of fans were clamoring for Eric Berry. That was broadcast all over place that Berry was the fan favorite, and season ticket sales are lower than they've been in over 20 years. Clark Hunt had the final say on the pick. They went with the fan favorite in 2010 because of the unpopularity of the Tyson Jackson pick the year before. That too, was broadcast all over the place.



How many times does it have spelled out that what they did was against a very easy schedule? Do you think it'll be 4 out of 17 against a tougher schedule next year? Highly doubtful. Run blocking isn't a problem for Albert, it's pass protection against the leagues better pass rushers. Oh, and lets not forget his inexcusable false start after a Chiefs timeout, that stalled a drive and negated a chance for the Chiefs to seize a foothold in the Ravens game.



You can't be serious, because that's absolute BS. Peoples exhibit A: 1999 1st round draftee John Tait. He never played RT in college or in the NFL, but where did the Chiefs move him to when Wille Roaf joined the team in 2002? That's right, RT. Did he struggle at the RT position? Nope, he played so well that Chicago offered him a huge contract to jump to them via FA. No way would it be a step backward to move Albert to a position that he's already played. It would clearly be an upgrade to the Guard position & a step forward.


Or maybe JUST MAYBE Pioli Haley and our Scouts KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING. I don't think any NFL team is that stupid to draft a guy based on what there fans think over what they think is the better player for there team. It may have been rumored but I doubt that is a true rumor. We have seen that this week already.


I don't no if he will struggle or not next year regardless of the spot he plays. Do you no that he won't continue to improve going into next year? Albert might stuggles against the Better pass rushers. So do a lot of O line man THAT'S WHY THEY ARE THE GOOD PASS RUSHERS. So every other o line man that strugglest against the best needs to change postions? Seems to me there would be a whole lot of changeing going on.

Albert moveing back MIGHT work out. But the FACT is that we don't know what we have in Albert for any other postion then what he has played in the NFL. He will not only have to learn to play the postion in the NFL but he will be rusty at that spot. He's played his current postion 3 years now. I think if he was "clearly an upgrade" we would have moved him there. What is Clear is that our coaches don't think that's the case because they have not moved him.

bwilliams
01-11-2011, 05:33 PM
You can't be serious, because that's absolute BS. Peoples exhibit A: 1999 1st round draftee John Tait. He never played RT in college or in the NFL, but where did the Chiefs move him to when Willie Roaf joined the team in 2002? That's right, RT. Did he struggle at the RT position? Nope, he played so well that Chicago offered him a huge contract to jump to them via FA. No way would it be a step backward to move Albert to a position that he's already played. It would clearly be an upgrade to the Guard position & a step forward.

Pro Bowler Leonard Davis (failed LT, moved to LG) is another pretty good example. So is Jason Smith on the Rams. They wanted him to be a LT, he didn't work out, so now he's a good RT.

I mean, how did Albert do against great run defenses and pass rushes this year? If the answers range from "not well" to "horrible" then he needs to be upgraded if we everwant to do well against those.

chief31
01-11-2011, 06:24 PM
Just got back. This was a pretty great season, even though it fell apart in the last two games. I'm not going to say that our record is just because of the easy schedule, but we certainly shouldn't be thinking we're going to stay in 1st place without some upgrades.

Our FA pickups (Smith, Lilja, Wiegmann, and Jones) did a whole lot better than I could have imagined, but unfortunately we still have most the same holes as we had last offseason. We need, in no particular order:

1. A legimate pass rusher at LB across from Hali. This is our biggest need. Von Miller or Akeem Ayres should drop. We need to avoid the Herm-era mistake of assuming one great player can continually do the work of two good ones.

I certainly don't agree that this is our biggest need.

The Chiefs ranked tenth in The NFL in Sacks, with 39.

I would love for that to improve. But this team was pretty good at getting after the QB in 2010. There are areas that they were not good at, that would require more attention, IMO.


2. Upgrades on the OL. I think the Raiders and Ravens games showed us that our OL can hold up against bad pass rushes, even good ones destroy them. Wiegmann and Waters are at the end of their careers. Lilja is undersized and was abused the last few weeks of the season. Richardson is a backup. O'Callaghan should be taken out and shot. Let's draft a RT in the 2nd and some inside youth late.

It is very difficult for me to not love the idea of upgrading our LOT position, and putting the run-blocking machine of Branden Albert where his sub-par pass blocking would be helped, at OG.




3. A new NT. Ron Edwards was the best surprise of the season not named DJ, but enough's enough. Get a legit long-term starter at the position or abandon the 3-4.

I am thrilled with Ron Edwards.

I was right with you, last off-season, in thinking that Edwards was completely unable to do the job. But he did it. And he did it very well.

He made fools of many of us. I would let this one go.


4. Legit WRs. Chambers is done. McCluster didn't look remotely worth his 2nd round pick. Curtis was a stopgap. And Copper/Lawrence/Tucker are special teams guys at best. We need at least two new starting WRs for next season.

AT LEAST... one.


5. A strong safety. While Berry had his moments, and I think he was worth the pick last season, he is just not good as a SS. Move him to FS already, make Lewis his backup, move McGraw back to special teams, and get a legit SS for that spot.

Berry was a stud at SS, with an occasional rookie mistake.

I wanted Okung in the draft last year. And, given the chance to go back, I would still be hoping for Okung.

But we got Berry. And Berry was as good as anyone could ever hope for a rookie to play at SS.

And Lewis was a great surprise at FS. So we would diminish his value by trying to move Berry.


6. A new second CB. I like Brandon Carr. He plays hard, and he gets a lot of passes thrown his way because of Flowers on the other side. But he just isn't getting the job done.

Here, I am with you.

Carr had some really good games. But getting another Flowers would be terrific!

However, I am not going to be upset if Carr winds up leveling out and being a solid #2 CB.


7. A blocking TE. So long as Moeaki is healthy, we're set there. But a nice big blocking TE would be helpful while the line rebuilds.

8. Depth at ILB. DJ and Belcher both look like keepers, but we have nothing behind them.

9. Backup QB. Enough with Croyle. I didn't like him before the season, and I loathe him now. Get a real QB to back Cassel up.

Competition, at least. We didn't see enough of Croyle for me to go looking for a replacement. But a young guy to grow with the offense would be a good thing.


10. A new OC. Don't do it Haley. Do not decide to call the plays yourself next season.

Agreed, in full!

I'd be thrilled if Haley were to work with McDaniels. But we need someone, no matter what, IMO.


Every coach wants us to draft guys at there postions. Coaches want a new toy. They want someone new to work with to help improve that postion. That's nothing new it's happend for years in the NFL.

Just out of curiosity, do you think that The Browns will have coaches wanting to replace Joe Thomas? How about The Dolphins? The Seahawks, Ravens, Saints, or Broncos?

Or, how about this?

Do you think that The Patriots, Colts, Saints, Chargers, or Eagles will have a coach suggesting to take a QB in the first round?

When you have an excellent player at a specific position, you don't recommend using your first round pick (especially that high of a first round pick) on that position.


I really don't understand all this talk to move albert. He played good this season and will continue to get better. He is still a young player. This was his 3rd year it was a year that he HAD to show improvement and he DID. Hei is just fine where he is.

We do need to get younger on the o line i agree. But I don't think we need to change anyone postions. That would be a step backwards IMO

He played extremely well in run blocking. But, as we opened up the playbook for more passing, he became exposed for being a weaker pass protector.

It's the reverse of what happened last season.

When LJ was failing through the first half of the season, Albert looked bad, because he was being asked to pass block alot. But once Charles took over, and we had a successful running game, he no longer had to protect as often. That helped mask his skills at LOT.

When you are a great run blocker, who struggles against speed rushers, in space, you are custom made for the interior of the o-line.

Oh and...

Welcome back.:D

matthewschiefs
01-11-2011, 06:41 PM
Just out of curiosity, do you think that The Browns will have coaches wanting to replace Joe Thomas? How about The Dolphins? The Seahawks, Ravens, Saints, or Broncos?

Or, how about this?

Do you think that The Patriots, Colts, Saints, Chargers, or Eagles will have a coach suggesting to take a QB in the first round?

When you have an excellent player at a specific position, you don't recommend using your first round pick (especially that high of a first round pick) on that position.



He played extremely well in run blocking. But, as we opened up the playbook for more passing, he became exposed for being a weaker pass protector.

It's the reverse of what happened last season.

When LJ was failing through the first half of the season, Albert looked bad, because he was being asked to pass block alot. But once Charles took over, and we had a successful running game, he no longer had to protect as often. That helped mask his skills at LOT.

When you are a great run blocker, who struggles against speed rushers, in space, you are custom made for the interior of the o-line.



I don't think thoses guys go after guys in the first round but I do think later in the drafts coaches in that spot do want to sure up the depth at that spot and make there thoughts known.

Albert is still a young devolpeing player. My point is that he got better this year. Is he GREAT no but he is getting better. I don't think we stop the process of that to move him. Let him keep working and see if he continues to Improve. At the point where he stops improveing then you move him not now.

Ryfo18
01-11-2011, 06:52 PM
I certainly don't agree that this is our biggest need.


You missed this...


I wasn't listing in order. I agree that getting a legit WR opposite Bowe is extremey important. I know he was a malcontent this season and maybe prohibitively expensive, but we should look at Vincent Jackson.

I think Berry was wasted at SS this season. We didn't draft him to be the new Bernard Pollard - we drafted him to be Ed Reed.



I don't think thoses guys go after guys in the first round but I do think later in the drafts coaches in that spot do want to sure up the depth at that spot and make there thoughts known.

Albert is still a young devolpeing player. My point is that he got better this year. Is he GREAT no but he is getting better. I don't think we stop the process of that to move him. Let him keep working and see if he continues to Improve. At the point where he stops improveing then you move him not now.

We can argue back and forth all day about what the Chiefs should do. It goes to say that certain people want the best at a certain position, be it WR, RB, QB, LT, or wherever. Albert isn't the best at his position, and he's certainly not the worst.

Could we go after a LT in the first round? Sure. Do I think we will? No.

matthewschiefs
01-11-2011, 07:06 PM
I am not 100% opposed to moveing Albert. I do think that IF we move him then it has to be a CLEAR upgrade. IMO that's not a rookie. If we bring in a rookie LT then let him compete with Albert don't just move Albert. Make them earn it. If we get a CLEAR upgrade at LT then I would not mind seeing how Albert did at other spots. I just don't want to move him and find out we got someone who can't do the job as good as him.

Ryfo18
01-11-2011, 07:08 PM
Here's a great article about the "low-bust rate" first round LT position:

Young, and Defending the Blind Side - NYTimes.com (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/12/07/young-and-defending-the-blind-side/)

chief31
01-11-2011, 07:12 PM
I don't think thoses guys go after guys in the first round but I do think later in the drafts coaches in that spot do want to sure up the depth at that spot and make there thoughts known.


When you are satisfied with the guy you have at a position, you do not recommend drafting his replacement in the first round.

Late rounds, for depth? Of course.

But if your o-line coach wants a new LOT at the start of the first round of the draft, then he is not sold on who he has there.




We can argue back and forth all day (We have months.Lol.)about what the Chiefs should do. It goes to say that certain people want the best at a certain position, be it WR, RB, QB, LT, or wherever. Albert isn't the best at his position, and he's certainly not the worst.

Could we go after a LT in the first round? Sure. Do I think we will? No.

I don't either.

They have needed to go LOT for the past five off-seasons, and haven't truly done it.

But it may well be what I would do.




You missed this...


I wasn't listing in order. I agree that getting a legit WR opposite Bowe is extremey important. I know he was a malcontent this season and maybe prohibitively expensive, but we should look at Vincent Jackson.

I think Berry was wasted at SS this season. We didn't draft him to be the new Bernard Pollard - we drafted him to be Ed Reed.

Nah. I caught that. But this part ...




1. A legimate pass rusher at LB across from Hali. This is our biggest need. Von Miller or Akeem Ayres should drop. We need to avoid the Herm-era mistake of assuming one great player can continually do the work of two good ones.



... specifies, at least this single positional need's ranking.

Ryfo18
01-11-2011, 07:20 PM
Nah. I caught that. But this part ...



... specifies, at least this single positional need's ranking.

You're right, I'm the idiot. It's a once a week thing I pull something like this.

chief31
01-11-2011, 07:21 PM
You're right, I'm the idiot. It's a once a week thing I pull something like this.

No sweat. I do it once an hour, myself. :lol:

whatwasthat?
01-11-2011, 09:03 PM
richardson has been much more of a liability than albert, and by 21 the elite LT prospects will be gone anyway

1st round options need to be-RT, C, WR, OLB

there are no players in this draft that are a true NT and have 1st round talent

a bigger running back needs to be a semi-high priority with jones likely to be done after this year (maybe sooner) and if the nfl switches to an 18 game season, its a necessity to keep charles fresh

bwilliams
01-11-2011, 09:40 PM
I certainly don't agree that this is our biggest need.

The Chiefs ranked tenth in The NFL in Sacks, with 39.

I would love for that to improve. But this team was pretty good at getting after the QB in 2010. There are areas that they were not good at, that would require more attention, IMO.

We can't do like we've always done and skimp on an important position. We have at least stopgaps at LT, RT, SS, etc. We have absolutely nothing across from Hali. And next season, teams will key in on Hali. We need to fix this problem, ASAP.


It is very difficult for me to not love the idea of upgrading our LOT position, and putting the run-blocking machine of Branden Albert where his sub-par pass blocking would be helped, at OG.

Agreed. I like Albert, but put him back at his natural position. I don't get why we're screwing around on this.


I am thrilled with Ron Edwards.

I was right with you, last off-season, in thinking that Edwards was completely unable to do the job. But he did it. And he did it very well.

He made fools of many of us. I would let this one go.

Look, I like Edwards. He was serviceable this year. But he was good against bad lines and decent against good ones. He isn't a great 3-4 NT and never will be. We need a legit 3-4 NT, not a guy who would be clearly happier at a 4-3 DT.


AT LEAST... one.

I want more than one. McCluster is a fine 4WR/3RB/2KR, but he isn't a legit WR. Let's get some real players in there.


Berry was a stud at SS, with an occasional rookie mistake.

No. He screwed up a lot in coverage and clearly struggled. He needs to go back to his natural position at FS.


I wanted Okung in the draft last year. And, given the chance to go back, I would still be hoping for Okung.

Me too.


But we got Berry. And Berry was as good as anyone could ever hope for a rookie to play at SS.


And Lewis was a great surprise at FS. So we would diminish his value by trying to move Berry.

Berry was a good pick. If not Okung, then him. But he is a natural FS playing out of position. Lewis is a good backup and special teams guy.

We need a real SS.


Carr had some really good games. But getting another Flowers would be terrific!

Let's splurge. Get Asomugha in FA. Come on. What is there to lose?


However, I am not going to be upset if Carr winds up leveling out and being a solid #2 CB.

I like Carr. He's a decent CB. But we can and should upgrade him.


Competition, at least. We didn't see enough of Croyle for me to go looking for a replacement. But a young guy to grow with the offense would be a good thing.

We've seen enough of Croyle for a lifetime. We need a real QB who won't break every game.


I'd be thrilled if Haley were to work with McDaniels. But we need someone, no matter what, IMO.

Haley needs to swallow his pride. He needs an OC.

brdempsey69
01-11-2011, 09:50 PM
Pro Bowler Leonard Davis (failed LT, moved to LG) is another pretty good example. So is Jason Smith on the Rams. They wanted him to be a LT, he didn't work out, so now he's a good RT.

I mean, how did Albert do against great run defenses and pass rushes this year? If the answers range from "not well" to "horrible" then he needs to be upgraded if we everwant to do well against those.

Exactly, and Tait was a pretty good LT when they moved him to RT when Roaf came in. Add to that list Robert Gallery of the Raiders.

How did Albert do against great pass rushers? Just go look at the 2nd Raiders game and the 2nd SD game and the Colts game -- my answer is "unsatisfactory". Time to get a real LT.



It is very difficult for me to not love the idea of upgrading our LOT position, and putting the run-blocking machine of Branden Albert where his sub-par pass blocking would be helped, at OG.


This is exactly what I've been trying to tell people. The Chiefs have not done right by him by throwing him out at LT. He was Guard at Virgina for a reason. He got beat out of the LT spot because he struggled with pass protection at the LT spot -- and that's an area he's not improving at playing LT. He looked just the same at the end of this year, as he did through the 1st half of 2009, as you pointed out, it was reverse of 2009. When the Chiefs were forced to pass, he struggled & with a tougher schedule in 2011, they'll probably be in that situation a lot more often. You can't take a guy who was a Guard in college and bring him into the NFL and throw him out there at LT and say "he's our LT" and think that makes him a Pro Bowler. Jonathan Ogden went the reverse order. The Ravens played him at Guard in his Rookie season in 1996, but wised up and moved him to LT in 1997. Ogden's talents were being wasted at Guard. I think Albert's talents are being wasted at LT. He'd be a killer Guard, which he was in college.



Just out of curiosity, do you think that The Browns will have coaches wanting to replace Joe Thomas? How about The Dolphins? The Seahawks, Ravens, Saints, or Broncos?

Or, how about this?

Do you think that The Patriots, Colts, Saints, Chargers, or Eagles will have a coach suggesting to take a QB in the first round?

When you have an excellent player at a specific position, you don't recommend using your first round pick (especially that high of a first round pick) on that position.


Not a chance. None whatsoever. Like I said, there was a bonafide reason the Chiefs O-Line coach was wanting Russell Okung drafted at #5 & never would have wanted that if he was satisfied with Albert at LT. Bill Muir wanted a better pass blocker at the LT position & I still think he feels that way, today.




He played extremely well in run blocking. But, as we opened up the playbook for more passing, he became exposed for being a weaker pass protector.

It's the reverse of what happened last season.

When LJ was failing through the first half of the season, Albert looked bad, because he was being asked to pass block alot. But once Charles took over, and we had a successful running game, he no longer had to protect as often. That helped mask his skills at LOT.

When you are a great run blocker, who struggles against speed rushers, in space, you are custom made for the interior of the o-line.



This is why I like Derek Sherrod & the idea of moving Albert to Guard. Sherrod's strength is being able to handle speed rushers, plus he can play both Tackle and Guard spots, so he would fit in somewhere on an O-Line that going to need help for the next season. Ryfo18 is probably right, they won't take the best LT available, but they should, and if Waters and Weigmann retire (which I think they should ) & they get a quality WR in FA, then that should settle the issue and they should draft the best O-Lineman available at #21, and Sherrod or Costanzo should be there. Costanzo had a great game against DE Bowers of Clemson and Bowers is projected as a top 5 pick. Both are Pioli type guys, as well.


richardson has been much more of a liability than albert, and by 21 the elite LT prospects will be gone anyway


I disagree, I'd say Albert was the bigger liability over the last part of the season.
Maybe the best LT's won't be there at #21, but there is a chance of one falling to #21, just like Bulaga fell to #23 last year to the Packers.

brdempsey69
01-12-2011, 11:04 AM
Okay, enough of my ranting about the O-Line. Let me ask everyone this. Do we all not agree that the Chiefs 1st pick in 2011 draft will be either O-Line or WR? I believe so.

What do you all think?

Ryfo18
01-12-2011, 11:06 AM
Okay, enough of my ranting about the O-Line. Let me ask everyone this. Do we all not agree that the Chiefs 1st pick in 2011 draft will be either O-Line or WR? I believe so.

What do you all think?

Based on my guesses on which direction they'd go in the 1st round the last 2 years, I'm just going to guess that they don't go punter or kicker :chiefs:.

bwilliams
01-12-2011, 11:08 AM
Okay, enough of my ranting about the O-Line. Let me ask everyone this. Do we all not agree that the Chiefs 1st pick in 2011 draft will be either O-Line or WR? I believe so.

What do you all think?

I think we will go, and should go, OLB. We have nothing across from Hali, and there's no free agent out there to fill that gap.

I mean, Jones and Baldwin should both be gone at 21, so I don't see a WR worth the pick. I know people want Sherrod at LT, but our front office has obstinately refused to go OL (we can get decent guys in rounds 2 and 3 as well).

brdempsey69
01-12-2011, 11:10 AM
Based on my guesses on which direction they'd go in the 1st round the last 2 years, I'm just going to guess that they don't go punter or kicker :chiefs:.

Well, that's obvious they won't go punter or kicker. But, if I read you correctly, then they may go neither O-Line or WR, and maybe go Defense again.

Ryfo18
01-12-2011, 11:12 AM
I think we will go, and should go, OLB. We have nothing across from Hali, and there's no free agent out there to fill that gap.

I mean, Jones and Baldwin should both be gone at 21, so I don't see a WR worth the pick. I know people want Sherrod at LT, but our front office has obstinately refused to go OL (we can get decent guys in rounds 2 and 3 as well).

I agree about OLB, would love to have another opposite Hali. Who knows though, we still have Sheffield in the works and I'm not sure of their plans with him, or even really how good he is since he was on IR all year. Being a 5th rounder, I'm not going to say he's our answer, but can't rule it out either.

I wouldn't be surprised to see one of Jones or Baldwin available. I mean look how far Dez Bryant fell last year.

4everchiefsfan25
01-12-2011, 11:13 AM
I think we will go, and should go, OLB. We have nothing across from Hali, and there's no free agent out there to fill that gap.

I mean, Jones and Baldwin should both be gone at 21, so I don't see a WR worth the pick. I know people want Sherrod at LT, but our front office has obstinately refused to go OL (we can get decent guys in rounds 2 and 3 as well).
I believe that we need to go OLB. If we can get another pass rusher then IMO we are one more step closer to the defense we had in the 90's. I would like to see us get Sam Ocho from Texas. He is a DE in a 4-3 but he reminds me so much of Hali and I think that he can make the position switch to LB.

brdempsey69
01-12-2011, 11:20 AM
I wouldn't be surprised to see one of Jones or Baldwin available. I mean look how far Dez Bryant fell last year.

I believe that as well. I think Baldwin will be there at #21, although it won't be due to character issues that pushed Bryant down last year. Got to love his overpowering size and route running and hands. Perfect fit to line up across from Bowe. But if they do take a WR at #21, they need to go heavy on the O-Line the rest of the draft.

4everchiefsfan25
01-12-2011, 11:22 AM
I believe that as well. I think Baldwin will be there at #21. Got to love his overpowering size and route running and hands. Perfect fit to line up across from Bowe. But if they do take a WR at #21, they need to go heavy on the O-Line the rest of the draft.
Dez Bryant fell in the draft because of his attitude and the whole thing that happened in College. He didn't really play the season before he went into the draft.

Ryfo18
01-12-2011, 11:26 AM
Does anyone know what the "conditional draft pick" was for Jarrad Page from the Pats? I haven't been able to find this anywhere.

brdempsey69
01-12-2011, 11:26 AM
Dez Bryant fell in the draft because of his attitude and the whole thing that happened in College. He didn't really play the season before he went into the draft.

Yes, I do know the situation regarding Bryant & I have edited my previous post. Baldwin does not have those issues. He could fall due to so many other WR's available in the draft.

bwilliams
01-12-2011, 11:38 AM
Yes, I do know the situation regarding Bryant & I have edited my previous post. Baldwin does not have those issues. He could fall due to so many other WR's available in the draft.

So many teams need WRs next season that I think Green, Blackmon, Jones, and Baldwin (top 4 WRs) will go to some mixture of the Browns, Pats (w/ Oakland pick), Bengals, Panthers, Redskins, Rams, or Chargers (if Jackson leaves) well before they get to us. Indeed, I think you can lock Green in the top-4 (if the Panthers don't get him, the Bengals will), lock Blackmon to the Rams, and the other two will go to the Redskins, Chargers, Pats, or Browns.

brdempsey69
01-12-2011, 11:46 AM
So many teams need WRs next season that I think Green, Blackmon, Jones, and Baldwin (top 4 WRs) will go to some mixture of the Browns, Pats (w/ Oakland pick), Bengals, Panthers, Redskins, Rams, or Chargers (if Jackson leaves) well before they get to us. Indeed, I think you can lock Green in the top-4 (if the Panthers don't get him, the Bengals will), lock Blackmon to the Rams, and the other two will go to the Redskins, Chargers, Pats, or Browns.

If that's the case, then why not go O-Line, other than what you said about their steadfast refusal to address it. they really won't have any excuses.

bwilliams
01-12-2011, 11:53 AM
If that's the case, then why not go O-Line, other than what you said about their steadfast refusal to address it. they really won't have any excuses.

Because I think we can get a good-to-great C (assuming Wiegmann retires) or RT in the draft in the 2nd/3rd. We already have average-to-good players at LT (average), LG (above average), and RG (average).

We have nothing opposite Hali, and just like with Bowe against the Ravens, good teams will double team him all next season and destroy his effectiveness. Let's fix this problem now and get a pair of bookend OLBs for the next decade.

brdempsey69
01-12-2011, 12:06 PM
Because I think we can get a good-to-great C (assuming Wiegmann retires) or RT in the draft in the 2nd/3rd. We already have average-to-good players at LT (average), LG (above average), and RG (average).

We have nothing opposite Hali, and just like with Bowe against the Ravens, good teams will double team him all next season and destroy his effectiveness. Let's fix this problem now and get a pair of bookend OLBs for the next decade.

I wouldn't go as far as to say there is nothing opposite Hali. Studabaker has shown promise, he may only just need more playing time and they may want to give Sheffield a chance.

I'd rather fix the Offense first, because the Defense can do OK, if they aren't on the field all the time.

bwilliams
01-12-2011, 12:24 PM
I wouldn't go as far as to say there is nothing opposite Hali. Studabaker has shown promise, he may only just need more playing time and they may want to give Sheffield a chance.

I'd rather fix the Offense first, because the Defense can do OK, if they aren't on the field all the time.

I didn't like Sheffield when we drafted and I like him less after the IR. I think he's practice squad (at best) in 2011. And we've seen enough of Studebaker to know that he's decent against the run but can't rush the passer at all.

About our offense, I think we need a new starting 2WR, 3WR, blocking TE, C, RT, and 2QB. We're going to need to get at least a couple of those thing in FA, and I don't think we'll get any great ones in the 1st round of the draft. Sherrod is getting slightly overrated because of the lack of legit LTs in this draft (compared to last). Also, I don't like him as a run-blocker, and as we're incredibly dependent on the run, that's a matter of concern.

Three7s
01-12-2011, 12:57 PM
I didn't like Sheffield when we drafted and I like him less after the IR. I think he's practice squad (at best) in 2011. And we've seen enough of Studebaker to know that he's decent against the run but can't rush the passer at all.

About our offense, I think we need a new starting 2WR, 3WR, blocking TE, C, RT, and 2QB. We're going to need to get at least a couple of those thing in FA, and I don't think we'll get any great ones in the 1st round of the draft. Sherrod is getting slightly overrated because of the lack of legit LTs in this draft (compared to last). Also, I don't like him as a run-blocker, and as we're incredibly dependent on the run, that's a matter of concern.
WR is our absolute biggest need, followed by NT. After that, we should try to get a center and RT. I'm willing to give Studebaker more of a shot. He's still young, and though you say he's bad at rushing the passer, he's gotten to the QB as much as anyone else that isn't Hali. I'm willing to give him a shot.

4everchiefsfan25
01-12-2011, 12:59 PM
I didn't like Sheffield when we drafted and I like him less after the IR. I think he's practice squad (at best) in 2011. And we've seen enough of Studebaker to know that he's decent against the run but can't rush the passer at all.

About our offense, I think we need a new starting 2WR, 3WR, blocking TE, C, RT, and 2QB. We're going to need to get at least a couple of those thing in FA, and I don't think we'll get any great ones in the 1st round of the draft. Sherrod is getting slightly overrated because of the lack of legit LTs in this draft (compared to last). Also, I don't like him as a run-blocker, and as we're incredibly dependent on the run, that's a matter of concern.
Moeaki can block. I'm tired of drafting TE's we need to draft were there a wholes that need to be filled, not draft positions that we need back ups for

brdempsey69
01-12-2011, 01:00 PM
.... Sherrod is getting slightly overrated because of the lack of legit LTs in this draft (compared to last). Also, I don't like him as a run-blocker, and as we're incredibly dependent on the run, that's a matter of concern.

I don't think he's over-rated given where he's projected to go right about where the Chiefs are picking. As for his run blocking, he's not a total slouch by any means, there may be some room for improvement, but any O-Lineman can be coached up as far as run-blocking goes.

But the point is probably moot, they probably won't take him if he's there & persist with going with Albert at LT.

bwilliams
01-12-2011, 01:04 PM
WR is our absolute biggest need, followed by NT. After that, we should try to get a center and RT. I'm willing to give Studebaker more of a shot. He's still young, and though you say he's bad at rushing the passer, he's gotten to the QB as much as anyone else that isn't Hali. I'm willing to give him a shot.

Maybe I should be clearer. We can get WR help or even a NT a whole lot easier than we can a legit pass rushing OLB who can also play the run. We're not going to get a legit starter for that position unless we draft one in the 1st round of the draft.

This is exactly what Herm/CP did. They thought that great player + bad player = average at position. It doesn't.

bwilliams
01-12-2011, 01:06 PM
Moeaki can block. I'm tired of drafting TE's we need to draft were there a wholes that need to be filled, not draft positions that we need back ups for

Moeaki is not a very good blocker. Neither are O'Connell or Pope. I'm also tired of drafting TEs, but investing a 6th or 7th rounder in a Dunn-type TE would help us on an OL that got badly exposed in the last two games.

4everchiefsfan25
01-12-2011, 01:07 PM
Maybe I should be clearer. We can get WR help or even a NT a whole lot easier than we can a legit pass rushing OLB who can also play the run. We're not going to get a legit starter for that position unless we draft one in the 1st round of the draft.

This is exactly what Herm/CP did. They thought that great player + bad player = average at position. It doesn't.
Agreed this draft is deep in WR's and also the FA is deep in WR's I think OLB should be the first adressed.

bwilliams
01-12-2011, 01:09 PM
I don't think he's over-rated given where he's projected to go right about where the Chiefs are picking. As for his run blocking, he's not a total slouch by any means, there may be some room for improvement, but any O-Lineman can be coached up as far as run-blocking goes.

But the point is probably moot, they probably won't take him if he's there & persist with going with Albert at LT.

Eh, it's easier to coach technique than it is to coach strength and nastiness.

If we picked Sherrod, I would like the pick. But I just think he's a better fit for a team like the Colts or Chargers, teams not heavily reliant on a run game, than he would be on ours. I think what we will (not should) do is invest a 2nd or 3rd rounder in a RT. Of course, I've been wrong every year for the last ten about that.

4everchiefsfan25
01-12-2011, 01:21 PM
Moeaki is not a very good blocker. Neither are O'Connell or Pope. I'm also tired of drafting TEs, but investing a 6th or 7th rounder in a Dunn-type TE would help us on an OL that got badly exposed in the last two games.
Tony Moeaki's Blocking Not Going Unnoticed Around The League - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/10/28/1779976/tony-moeakis-blocking-not-going-unnoticed-around-the-league) I don't know how you figure Tony Moeaki isnt a good blocking TE

bwilliams
01-12-2011, 02:23 PM
Tony Moeaki's Blocking Not Going Unnoticed Around The League - Arrowhead Pride (http://www.arrowheadpride.com/2010/10/28/1779976/tony-moeakis-blocking-not-going-unnoticed-around-the-league) I don't know how you figure Tony Moeaki isnt a good blocking TE

Tony Moeaki is good at blocking WRs/LBs etc., much like Tony G. was. But Tony G. wasn't a great blocking TE. He was a receiving TE that blocked well (yes, I know it seems like I'm splitting hairs).

I'm talking about drafting basically a 6th lineman who can be used to max protect the QB if necessary. We don't have one of those on the roster.

Think about the difference between Jason Dunn and Tony G. We have a Tony G.-type in Moeaki. I want the Jason Dunn too. I admit it's a low priority, but it's what 6th and 7th round picks exist for.

brdempsey69
01-12-2011, 02:41 PM
Tony Moeaki is good at blocking WRs/LBs etc., much like Tony G. was. But Tony G. wasn't a great blocking TE. He was a receiving TE that blocked well (yes, I know it seems like I'm splitting hairs).

I'm talking about drafting basically a 6th lineman who can be used to max protect the QB if necessary. We don't have one of those on the roster.

Think about the difference between Jason Dunn and Tony G. We have a Tony G.-type in Moeaki. I want the Jason Dunn too. I admit it's a low priority, but it's what 6th and 7th round picks exist for.

Brilliant, you have made a very valid point. Now that I think about it, Jason Dunn was an unsung, but very valuable part of that prolific Offense under Dick Vermeil. So, yes, what you are saying is true.

matthewschiefs
01-12-2011, 05:31 PM
Tony Moeaki is good at blocking WRs/LBs etc., much like Tony G. was. But Tony G. wasn't a great blocking TE. He was a receiving TE that blocked well (yes, I know it seems like I'm splitting hairs).

I'm talking about drafting basically a 6th lineman who can be used to max protect the QB if necessary. We don't have one of those on the roster.

Think about the difference between Jason Dunn and Tony G. We have a Tony G.-type in Moeaki. I want the Jason Dunn too. I admit it's a low priority, but it's what 6th and 7th round picks exist for.

I agree. We do have Pope but he has not done much I think it's time we move on from him and see what eles we can get.

bwilliams
01-12-2011, 05:36 PM
I agree. We do have Pope but he has not done much I think it's time we move on from him and see what eles we can get.

Actually, I'd keep Pope (his size makes him a perfect goal line TE) and cut the easily replaceable Jake O'Connell.

chief31
01-12-2011, 06:50 PM
We can't do like we've always done and skimp on an important position. We have at least stopgaps at LT, RT, SS, etc. We have absolutely nothing across from Hali. And next season, teams will key in on Hali. We need to fix this problem, ASAP.

As I said. We are pretty solid at pass rushing. It is far from our biggest need.


Agreed. I like Albert, but put him back at his natural position. I don't get why we're screwing around on this.



Look, I like Edwards. He was serviceable this year. But he was good against bad lines and decent against good ones. He isn't a great 3-4 NT and never will be. We need a legit 3-4 NT, not a guy who would be clearly happier at a 4-3 DT.

I think Ron Edwards is happier with the 3-4. He certainly played a lot better.

And I think that you have vastly undervalued his play.


I want more than one. McCluster is a fine 4WR/3RB/2KR, but he isn't a legit WR. Let's get some real players in there.

You have definitely made too quick a judgement here. How about a full season before deciding that he can't do the job?


No. He screwed up a lot in coverage and clearly struggled. He needs to go back to his natural position at FS.

Berry was a good pick. If not Okung, then him. But he is a natural FS playing out of position. Lewis is a good backup and special teams guy.

We need a real SS.

He made some rookie mistakes. But he was a weapon against the pass and the run.

If you expected better of a rookie at SS, then you are just plain wrong to do so..






Let's splurge. Get Asomugha in FA. Come on. What is there to lose?

I like Carr. He's a decent CB. But we can and should upgrade him.

I am with you....if we can do it late in the draft, or though the FA market.




Haley needs to swallow his pride. He needs an OC.

I am not so sure that he is able to do that.

If he is going to have the same problem with another OC, then we may be better off not delaying the inevitable, and allowing him to do what he has probably already decided to do.

The fact that he would even mention that option in the press, to me, suggests that he will, in fact, be calling the plays next season.

chief31
01-12-2011, 06:50 PM
a bigger running back needs to be a semi-high priority with jones likely to be done after this year (maybe sooner) and if the nfl switches to an 18 game season, its a necessity to keep charles fresh

I forgot about that position. Not sure if Thomas Jones will be back, or not. But a young bruiser should be brought in, for the future, either way.

matthewschiefs
01-12-2011, 06:57 PM
He made some rookie mistakes. But he was a weapon against the pass and the run.

If you expected better of a rookie at SS, then you are just plain wrong to do so..


100% agree. Eric Berry was not perfect but NO rookie in the history of the NFL at any spot has ever been perfect. He got better as the season went along. He is fine where he is. All this move this guy here and move this guy there would do is set us back yet anther season.

matthewschiefs
01-12-2011, 07:00 PM
I forgot about that position. Not sure if Thomas Jones will be back, or not. But a young bruiser should be brought in, for the future, either way.

I hope that Jones is back next year and he can do what he did for this team this year next year.

We do need to get a younger Jones like back this offseason. Jones was seen as a mentor to Charles he could do that with a young power back. That rb and The Chiefs would be better because of it.

Stumplifter
01-12-2011, 07:05 PM
1. OC, A creative and aggressive "young" OC.
2. QB, an NFL starting caliber quarterback
3. WR, Bowe needs a quality complementary WR
4. LT, move Albert to Guard
5. C, Casey is getting old and he's too small
6. DE, an athletic, havoc-wreaking end to apply pressure

brdempsey69
01-12-2011, 07:10 PM
100% agree. Eric Berry was not perfect but NO rookie in the history of the NFL at any spot has ever been perfect. He got better as the season went along. He is fine where he is. All this move this guy here and move this guy there would do is set us back yet anther season.

Moving one or two guys -- perhaps 3 or 4 -- is going to set an entire team back? Just like moving Ryan Lilja from the LG position that he played at Indy to RG with the Chiefs and moving Shaun Smith out to DE when TJ got hurt, right? I am overwhelmed by how these two moves set the Chiefs back in 2010. Get my drift?

matthewschiefs
01-12-2011, 07:31 PM
Moving one or two guys -- perhaps 3 or 4 -- is going to set an entire team back? Just like moving Ryan Lilja from the LG position that he played at Indy to RG with the Chiefs and moving Shaun Smith out to DE when TJ got hurt, right? I am overwhelmed by how these two moves set the Chiefs back in 2010. Get my drift?


Moveing a guy from RG to LG is not a huge deal they are still playing Guard. And really we didn't chose to move Smith we HAD to due to Injury. Moveing a guy due to injury is completly diffrent.

The REASON that it would set us back is Albert has 0 experance at LT in the NFL and Berry has 0 FS in the NFL. College and the NFL are two diffrent things. Otherwise there would be 0 draft bust. And Has it ever occured to you that there are reasons that we don't move them? If it was such a clear upgrade that you suggest don't you think we would have done it?

chief31
01-12-2011, 07:54 PM
All this move this guy here and move this guy there would do is set us back yet anther season.

Isn't that what every team does when the bring in a rookie class and play them?

And isn't that what we did with about every position on the defense this past season?




Moveing a guy from RG to LG is not a huge deal they are still playing Guard. And really we didn't chose to move Smith we HAD to due to Injury. Moveing a guy due to injury is completly diffrent.

The REASON that it would set us back is Albert has 0 experance at LT in the NFL and Berry has 0 FS in the NFL. College and the NFL are two diffrent things. Otherwise there would be 0 draft bust. And Has it ever occured to you that there are reasons that we don't move them? If it was such a clear upgrade that you suggest don't you think we would have done it?


Albert has a lot of NFL experience, and a lot of OG experience.

In Branden Albert's case, it's not like bringing in some rookie, who has never played against the elite of the elite. Nor is it like moving a guy who has never played OG inside.

Albert has shown that he has great skill in run blocking, and struggles with open field pass blocking.

At OG when a pass rusher gets an angle on you to one side, or the other, you have players on that side (OT and DE, or C/OG and DT). There is a barrier on both sides of you, even if that barrier is another defender. Your guy can not go through that barrier unimpeded.

At OT, there is no barrier to the outside. That is why defenses have their best pass rusher going to the outside so much more often than inside.

I would love to see a true LOT brought in this offseason. But I have been waiting for quite a while now.

brdempsey69
01-12-2011, 08:07 PM
The REASON that it would set us back is Albert has 0 experance at LG in the NFL and Berry has 0 FS in the NFL. College and the NFL are two diffrent things. Otherwise there would be 0 draft bust. And Has it ever occured to you that there are reasons that we don't move them? If it was such a clear upgrade that you suggest don't you think we would have done it?

And how much NFL experience did they have at those positions when they came into the NFL to begin with? None. Your arguement doesn't hold an ounce of water and you've already been given examples of guys that made the switch successfully ( John Tait ring a bell ? )

And yes, it has occurred to me many times why they haven't made the move as far as moving Albert to Guard. The only valid reason for it is a syndrome known as "pigheadedness". And the Chiefs O-Line coach did want them to draft Russell Okung and if they had, that would have meant Albert moving to another O-Line position because there is no way that Albert would have beat Okung out at LT.



I would love to see a true LOT brought in this offseason. But I have been waiting for quite a while now.

Same here. Willie Roaf has been greatly missed & Albert is not a viable replacement for him.

matthewschiefs
01-12-2011, 10:26 PM
And how much NFL experience did they have at those positions when they came into the NFL to begin with? None. Your arguement doesn't hold an ounce of water and you've already been given examples of guys that made the switch successfully ( John Tait ring a bell ? )

And yes, it has occurred to me many times why they haven't made the move as far as moving Albert to Guard. The only valid reason for it is a syndrome known as "pigheadedness". And the Chiefs O-Line coach did want them to draft Russell Okung and if they had, that would have meant Albert moving to another O-Line position because there is no way that Albert would have beat Okung out at LT.



Same here. Willie Roaf has been greatly missed & Albert is not a viable replacement for him.

Really? The fact that he is getting better is not a vaild reason to keep him there? Not to mention that it would have been easy for Haley and company to move him since he was not drafted and put at LT by them.

A O line coach might have wanted to draft Okung but the fact that we didn't means that more coaches the gm and scouts wanted Berry.

Like I have said before I have no problem moveing Albert IF and ONLY IF we get a clear upgrade or he is beat out for it not before.

aaronchieffan
01-12-2011, 10:39 PM
I think we need to get the spots filled that we are ageing on the o line before albert. Albert will still be there in a few years. Wigman Waters wont we need to get there replacements first.

brdempsey69
01-12-2011, 11:41 PM
Really? The fact that he is getting better is not a vaild reason to keep him there? Not to mention that it would have been easy for Haley and company to move him since he was not drafted and put at LT by them.


Where are you getting the impression that he's getting better? He's not getting better, he's as good as he's ever going to get at the LT position. I've seen no improvement in his pass blocking, in fact he clearly struggled & regressed in the last month of the season & got beat like a drum repeatedly. He can only do well against the nosebleeds of the NFL ( which is what he faced most of the year), but the better pass rushers beat him continually. If he's improving, then why are there others besides myself that want to see him moved to Guard & get a real LT to take over? His not being drafted by Haley and company has nothing to do with anything.



A O line coach might have wanted to draft Okung but the fact that we didn't means that more coaches the gm and scouts wanted Berry.


Nobody knows that for certain. Clark Hunt had the final say on that. He's the one who made the call to Berry on draft day. That doesn't mean that the majority of scouts and coaches were in favor of selecting Berry over Okung. The final say belongs to Clark Hunt. It's his team.



Like I have said before I have no problem moveing Albert IF and ONLY IF we get a clear upgrade or he is beat out for it not before.



Any of the three, Sherrod, Costanzo, or Carimi would be an upgrade. They played the LT position all through their college careers & all can pass block better than Albert.

matthewschiefs
01-13-2011, 12:33 AM
Where are you getting the impression that he's getting better? He's not getting better, he's as good as he's ever going to get at the LT position. I've seen no improvement in his pass blocking, in fact he clearly struggled & regressed in the last month of the season & got beat like a drum repeatedly. He can only do well against the nosebleeds of the NFL ( which is what he faced most of the year), but the better pass rushers beat him continually. If he's improving, then why are there others besides myself that want to see him moved to Guard & get a real LT to take over? His not being drafted by Haley and company has nothing to do with anything.



Nobody knows that for certain. Clark Hunt had the final say on that. He's the one who made the call to Berry on draft day. That doesn't mean that the majority of scouts and coaches were in favor of selecting Berry over Okung. The final say belongs to Clark Hunt. It's his team.



Any of the three, Sherrod, Costanzo, or Carimi would be an upgrade. They played the LT position all through their college careers & all can pass block better than Albert.

UMMMM I thought it was pretty clear that our O line was greatly improved over last season. And Albert was a part of that. There was a time pretty late in the season that Matt Cassel was one of the least sacked QBs in the NFL. And Albert was still in there at LT. You will use the excuse that we played a weak schedule but last time I checked there were still NFL players going against him. Did he struggle at time yes but overall there was improvement. Just look at the number of sacks.
42 sacks in 2009
26 in 2010 thats 16 less sacks 1 per game on avarge.
Did Albert stuggle at the end of the year yes but so did the WHOLE O LINE and well WHole offense So i guess we have to move cassel to WR bowe to Rb and Jones to qb since they regressed right?

I am pretty sure Clark Hunt listend to his scouts. The doing what the fans want Bs is just that. Since Hunt has taken over he has done Many moves that the fan base did not like. Like keeping herm edwards an extra season trading Jarad allen tony g keeping LJ to name a few. And oh yes the drafting Tyson Jackson. Hunts track record proves that he will not just do what the fan base wants. Plus Hunt was wanting to keep herm one more year. He let Pioli make that decison. Hunt listend to Plioi again in the draft and Pioli decided to go with Berry.

If any of the name you mentioned are brought in and the clearly beat Albert then fine. Put them there and move Albert. But Make them earn it. I really don't see the problem with makeing someone earn that spot not just handing it to them and moveing Albert.

brdempsey69
01-13-2011, 01:36 AM
UMMMM I thought it was pretty clear that our O line was greatly improved over last season. And Albert was a part of that. There was a time pretty late in the season that Matt Cassel was one of the least sacked QBs in the NFL. And Albert was still in there at LT. You will use the excuse that we played a weak schedule but last time I checked there were still NFL players going against him. Did he struggle at time yes but overall there was improvement. Just look at the number of sacks.
42 sacks in 2009
26 in 2010 thats 16 less sacks 1 per game on avarge.


They benefited from an easy schedule & that why you see the numbers that you saw, but they folded against the teams that had good a Defensive front 7. Not once were they able to overcome a deficit of 10 or more points. When teams got ahead and knew Cassel had to throw the ball, they couldn't protect him.



Did Albert stuggle at the end of the year yes but so did the WHOLE O LINE and well WHole offense...


There, you said it yourself, Albert struggled. The LT position is the most important position on the Offense outside of the QB & if he can't protect the passer when his team needs to throw the ball, then a change is most certainly needed.



So i guess we have to move cassel to WR bowe to Rb and Jones to qb since they regressed right?


Sorry, but that's just a humping-the-neighbors-dog type of statement there. It's not only way off base from the suggestion of moving Albert to a position that he's played before, it's not even remotely in the ballpark.




I am pretty sure Clark Hunt listend to his scouts. The doing what the fans want Bs is just that. Since Hunt has taken over he has done Many moves that the fan base did not like. Like keeping herm edwards an extra season trading Jarad allen tony g keeping LJ to name a few. And oh yes the drafting Tyson Jackson. Hunts track record proves that he will not just do what the fan base wants. Plus Hunt was wanting to keep herm one more year. He let Pioli make that decison. Hunt listend to Plioi again in the draft and Pioli decided to go with Berry.


As I said before, nobody knows that for certain & I'll bet money that if the fans had been clamoring for Russell Okung instead of Berry, the pick would've been Russell Okung.



If any of the name you mentioned are brought in and the clearly beat Albert then fine. Put them there and move Albert. But Make them earn it. I really don't see the problem with makeing someone earn that spot not just handing it to them and moveing Albert.


I'll wager that it won't be too hard for any those 3 that I mentioned to beat Albert out of the LT position, seeing as all 3 are better pass blockers.

Three7s
01-13-2011, 01:42 AM
Boy, I just love drafterbator discussion. As for the part way back about looking for a new power back to replace Jones, I think Battle could do that much. It looked like he was being groomed for it throughout the season.

matthewschiefs
01-13-2011, 01:46 AM
They benefited from an easy schedule & that why you see the numbers that you saw, but they folded against the teams that had good a Defensive front 7. Not once were they able to overcome a deficit of 10 or more points. When teams got ahead and knew Cassel had to throw the ball, they couldn't protect him.



There, you said it yourself, Albert struggled. The LT position is the most important position on the Offense outside of the QB & if he can't protect the passer when his team needs to throw the ball, then a change is most certainly needed.



Sorry, but that's just a humping-the-neighbors-dog type of statement there. It's not only way off base from the suggestion of moving Albert to a position that he's played before, it's not even remotely in the ballpark.



As I said before, nobody knows that for certain & I'll bet money that if the fans had been clamoring for Russell Okung instead of Berry, the pick would've been Russell Okung.



I'll wager that it won't be too hard for any those 3 that I mentioned to beat Albert out of the LT position, seeing as all 3 are better pass blockers.


That May be the case it may not. All I want is to be sure that the person who would replace Albert is a CLEAR upgrade. That means the compete with Albert at LT and whoever is the better player starts. All I want is Competion at the spot at least. Not just grab a guy and move albert. If we do that and he is not even as good as Albert then that is a step backwards. I just don't want to take a step backwards.
I stand by my statement that Albert was getting better. It's common for teams to struggle in the passing offense when the D nos they have to pass that's not something that we just struggled on. And we WON the AFC west with Albert at LT last time I checked The bolts donkeys and faiders also played the NFC west we just did it 2 games better then them.

brdempsey69
01-13-2011, 02:01 AM
That May be the case it may not. All I want is to be sure that the person who would replace Albert is a CLEAR upgrade. That means the compete with Albert at LT and whoever is the better player starts. All I want is Competion at the spot at least. Not just grab a guy and move albert. If we do that and he is not even as good as Albert then that is a step backwards. I just don't want to take a step backwards.
I stand by my statement that Albert was getting better. It's common for teams to struggle in the passing offense when the D nos they have to pass that's not something that we just struggled on. And we WON the AFC west with Albert at LT last time I checked The bolts donkeys and faiders also played the NFC west we just did it 2 games better then them.

You can't step back much farther than what Albert did over the last month of the season. You can stand by your statement all you want to about him improving, but giving up something like 7 sacks over the last month of the season doesn't constitute improvement. It means a change is needed. As for the other teams in the AFC West, they played better teams in the AFC outside the division for the most part. True the Chiefs did sweep the NFC West, but in 2011, it's going to be the NFC North and it's going to be lot tougher & all those teams have guys that can rush the passer from QB's blind side and I foresee Albert getting worked over, just like he did at the end of this season.

But, you don't have to worry, the Chiefs brass will probably keep him there at LT and like yourself think that he's improving, while teams like the Raiders and their fans will be winking at you & saying to themselves "Keep thinking that way".

wilqb16
01-13-2011, 01:51 PM
You can't step back much farther than what Albert did over the last month of the season. You can stand by your statement all you want to about him improving, but giving up something like 7 sacks over the last month of the season doesn't constitute improvement. It means a change is needed. As for the other teams in the AFC West, they played better teams in the AFC outside the division for the most part. True the Chiefs did sweep the NFC West, but in 2011, it's going to be the NFC North and it's going to be lot tougher & all those teams have guys that can rush the passer from QB's blind side and I foresee Albert getting worked over, just like he did at the end of this season.

But, you don't have to worry, the Chiefs brass will probably keep him there at LT and like yourself think that he's improving, while teams like the Raiders and their fans will be winking at you & saying to themselves "Keep thinking that way".

I think Albert is a medicre LT. He isn't terrible, but he isn't great. Part of the reason why he struggles over the end of the season was that we faced more 4-3 defenses (Raiders, Titans, Rams) and he really struggles. Matter of fact, our whole O-line has a harder time against the 4-3, which is in part because Albert has a more difficult time blocking against true DE's.

I agree that he is as good as he is going to get at LT. I always thought it was a bad move to draft a guard and move him to LT, anyways. I say we move him to RT or guard and then get an LT in either FA or the draft.

Barry Richardson is a FA and I doubt we resign him.

Otherwise, I still say we need an NT, WR and an OLB and I would still trade our #1 for Fitzgerald.

brdempsey69
01-13-2011, 02:25 PM
I think Albert is a medicre LT. He isn't terrible, but he isn't great. Part of the reason why he struggles over the end of the season was that we faced more 4-3 defenses (Raiders, Titans, Rams) and he really struggles. Matter of fact, our whole O-line has a harder time against the 4-3, which is in part because Albert has a more difficult time blocking against true DE's.

I agree that he is as good as he is going to get at LT. I always thought it was a bad move to draft a guard and move him to LT, anyways. I say we move him to RT or guard and then get an LT in either FA or the draft.

Barry Richardson is a FA and I doubt we resign him.

Otherwise, I still say we need an NT, WR and an OLB and I would still trade our #1 for Fitzgerald.

It's not that I do not like Albert, I do, but what I hate is this:

1) The Chiefs have needed to address this O-Line since 2006, since Will Shields retired & Willie Roaf retired the year before. Taking a player who was a Guard in college and throwing him out at LT is NOT addressing the issue -- it clearly has compounded it.

2) Albert's talents are being wasted at LT. He was a great pulling Guard in college and would have been a great replacement for Will Shields -- a guy that can pull and get out in space and make screens and sweeps work. Albert got beat out at LT in college because of pass-blocking issues. It won't surprise me when Albert's contract expires that he bolts to another team that will plug him into Guard and he'll wind up in the Pro Bowl & the Chiefs expirment with him at LT will be totally in vain ( it already is ).

4everchiefsfan25
01-13-2011, 03:37 PM
I think Albert is a medicre LT. He isn't terrible, but he isn't great. Part of the reason why he struggles over the end of the season was that we faced more 4-3 defenses (Raiders, Titans, Rams) and he really struggles. Matter of fact, our whole O-line has a harder time against the 4-3, which is in part because Albert has a more difficult time blocking against true DE's.

I agree that he is as good as he is going to get at LT. I always thought it was a bad move to draft a guard and move him to LT, anyways. I say we move him to RT or guard and then get an LT in either FA or the draft.

Barry Richardson is a FA and I doubt we resign him.

Otherwise, I still say we need an NT, WR and an OLB and I would still trade our #1 for Fitzgerald.
The Chiefs OL struggled against the Rams? I must of watched the wrong game then because the one that I watched they did a pretty good job.

Bigchiefatl
01-13-2011, 04:17 PM
In my opinion, the weakness that the D showed down the stretch was the inability to get pressure on the QB without blitzing, for that reason I would rank a middle clogging NT or a DE to play opposite Hali ahead of FS. Either one will help our pass rush. I do agree that FS and OLB(with Vrabel probably leaving) would be next on my list) On the Offensive side...WR!!! Baltimore showed that you can double team Bowe, and put a LB on Moeaki and almost completely shut down our passing game. Moeaki will improve, but we HAVE to get another wideout. Next on the offensive side is some help at tackle and a backup QB. As far as the order...when you have this many needs, you can't fix them all in one off-season...I say each round, find the best available player at any one of these positions that ins't a reach, and pick him.

matthewschiefs
01-13-2011, 04:21 PM
The Chiefs OL struggled against the Rams? I must of watched the wrong game then because the one that I watched they did a pretty good job.

And I also saw a pretty good preformace in the Titian game. If the OL was so bad against them we would not have put up 34 points.

wilqb16
01-13-2011, 04:57 PM
The Chiefs OL struggled against the Rams? I must of watched the wrong game then because the one that I watched they did a pretty good job.

In the game I saw, yes, in particularly terms of pass protection. Rush numbers are fluffed by an 80-yard run by Charles, BUT we surrendered 3 sacks and Cassel (playing after having his appendix out) had to run 6 times.

If you recall, offense got off to a slow start and this was really a defensive win.

wilqb16
01-13-2011, 05:01 PM
And I also saw a pretty good preformace in the Titian game. If the OL was so bad against them we would not have put up 34 points.

This was probably our best performance on against a 4-3 on the season. However, if you recall, the one sack we allowed was against Albert when he was beaten by Justin Baber.

Also, if you look at Jones' numbers vs. the Titans and Rams, he totalled 45 carries for 115 yards. Granted Charles had 24 carries for 203 yard but I think Charles is a freak of nature who makes our O-line look much better than it is. Outside of Charles 6.3 yard average, every other Chiefs RB averaged less than 4.0 a carry.

chief31
01-13-2011, 05:08 PM
I think we need to get the spots filled that we are ageing on the o line before albert. Albert will still be there in a few years. Wigman Waters wont we need to get there replacements first.

If a player were brought in that could beat out Albert at LOT, that would leave Albert available to be the replacement for an older player on the interior of the o-line.

And, with his run-blocking skills, he would likely be a significant upgrade as well.

Not to mention what a fantastic luxury it would be to have a guy with NFL LOT experience on the inside, in case we ran into a situation where we needed an emergency fill-in at LOT.

Talk about two birds with one stone.

brdempsey69
01-13-2011, 05:30 PM
If a player were brought in that could beat out Albert at LOT, that would leave Albert available to be the replacement for an older player on the interior of the o-line.

And, with his run-blocking skills, he would likely be a significant upgrade as well.

Not to mention what a fantastic luxury it would be to have a guy with NFL LOT experience on the inside, in case we ran into a situation where we needed an emergency fill-in at LOT.

Talk about two birds with one stone.

Or, if they insist on keeping Albert at LT, they can still maybe pick up a guy like Carimi, Sherrod, or Costanzo and start him out at RT and upgrade that position, and he would provide insurance for the LT position if Albert were to get hurt and at the same time be groomed to take over the LT if Albert continues to struggle with pass protection and doesn't progress in that area ( which I've seen no evidence that he will ).

This is another reason I'd like to see them get the best OT available at #21 -- assuming one of the 3 aforementioned is still on the board, and if they aren't, then look elsewhere.

matthewschiefs
01-13-2011, 05:31 PM
If a player were brought in that could beat out Albert at LOT, that would leave Albert available to be the replacement for an older player on the interior of the o-line.

And, with his run-blocking skills, he would likely be a significant upgrade as well.

Not to mention what a fantastic luxury it would be to have a guy with NFL LOT experience on the inside, in case we ran into a situation where we needed an emergency fill-in at LOT.

Talk about two birds with one stone.

That's all I would want to see. Someone beat Albert out for the LOT spot. Weather that be a rookie or someone in a free agent. I would hate to move him and get a draft bust (i no the bust rate is low for O linemen but there still have been bust there can be more) I just want to see Albert get beat out.

chief31
01-13-2011, 08:03 PM
That's all I would want to see. Someone beat Albert out for the LOT spot. Weather that be a rookie or someone in a free agent. I would hate to move him and get a draft bust (i no the bust rate is low for O linemen but there still have been bust there can be more) I just want to see Albert get beat out.

As do I. But I really like Branden Albert being on The Chiefs.

I think he can be the best O-lineman on the team, if he were playing at OG.

matthewschiefs
01-13-2011, 08:44 PM
As do I. But I really like Branden Albert being on The Chiefs.

I think he can be the best O-lineman on the team, if he were playing at OG.



I do to. I think he can still devople into a very good LT. But like I said if we do bring someone in and they beat him out then I have no problem with moveing him to anther spot.

25Day&Night20
01-13-2011, 09:16 PM
We need to draft Von Miller with our 1st pick to give us someone across from Hali. Jerrell Powe would be a nice pick in the 2nd round. He would solitify the NT spot for us for years to come. We have the money to go out and sign a WR and someone who can help our secondary or possibly Logan Mankins. What do you guys think of the possibility of bringing in Randy Moss?

Boxermm187
01-13-2011, 09:59 PM
most of the pre drafts have the chiefs getting a WR in the first and OL in the 2

Ryfo18
01-13-2011, 10:07 PM
We need to draft Von Miller with our 1st pick to give us someone across from Hali. Jerrell Powe would be a nice pick in the 2nd round. He would solitify the NT spot for us for years to come. We have the money to go out and sign a WR and someone who can help our secondary or possibly Logan Mankins. What do you guys think of the possibility of bringing in Randy Moss?

Von Miller is not a guy the Chiefs will go after. He's a pure pass rusher like Hali. A guy like Akeem Ayers is much more likely for SAM backer to replace Vrabel.

Jrudi
01-13-2011, 10:22 PM
I like Jerrell Powe in the 2nd as a NT we need to help Edwards if he comes back.

I also think that the lack of over talented tackles in this years draft will cause us to draft one in the 2nd-4th rounds, someone like Demarcus Love of Arkansas (A Beast, Lots of Playing Experience, High Character, and an excellent run blocker) or Marcus Gilbert of Florida (similar traits to Love just projected in the3rd-4th rnds)

I think that in doing this they will plug them in at RT and Keep Albert at LT and continue to monitor him. Asamoah will replace waters (Replaced both gaurds in games this year and you couldn't even tell a starter was out)

I was one who would have liked to take a WR in the draft as well but just found out that Justin Blackmon from OSU is returning to school, leaving only 3 possible first round receivers, which Green will go in the top 5, so I doubt there will be one worthy of a 1st round pick left when we pick.

So with the 1st round pick.... Possibly LB or NT.... Maybe Greg Jones (LB) of Mich St. (I think they will give Studebaker a shot to replace Vrabel, and allow Sheffield to rotate and develop before investing a high pick on an OLB)

25Day&Night20
01-14-2011, 08:44 AM
There's also a lot of guys out there in free agency. Who can you guys see us signing?

WR- R.Moss, S.Rice, S.Holmes, B.Edwards, S.Moss, S.Breaston

OL- L.Mankins, R.Kalil

DL- H.Ngata

LB- L.Woodley, D.Harris, E.Sims

DB- C.Bailey, N.Asomugha, J.Joseph

brdempsey69
01-14-2011, 10:46 AM
There's also a lot of guys out there in free agency. Who can you guys see us signing?

WR- R.Moss, S.Rice, S.Holmes, B.Edwards, S.Moss, S.Breaston

OL- L.Mankins, R.Kalil

DL- H.Ngata

LB- L.Woodley, D.Harris, E.Sims

DB- C.Bailey, N.Asomugha, J.Joseph

I would say Breaston would be the most likely candidate. He fills a need and can stretch the field & has played for Haley.

4everchiefsfan25
01-14-2011, 10:57 AM
There's also a lot of guys out there in free agency. Who can you guys see us signing?

WR- R.Moss, S.Rice, S.Holmes, B.Edwards, S.Moss, S.Breaston

OL- L.Mankins, R.Kalil

DL- H.Ngata

LB- L.Woodley, D.Harris, E.Sims

DB- C.Bailey, N.Asomugha, J.Joseph
The Ravens would be stupid not to try and lock up H. NGata

Jrudi
01-14-2011, 11:21 AM
There's also a lot of guys out there in free agency. Who can you guys see us signing?

WR- R.Moss, S.Rice, S.Holmes, B.Edwards, S.Moss, S.Breaston

OL- L.Mankins, R.Kalil

DL- H.Ngata

LB- L.Woodley, D.Harris, E.Sims

DB- C.Bailey, N.Asomugha, J.Joseph


Out of the WR's I like Breastin too, or Early Doucett, whichever the Cards don't lock up. Reason- Has played for Haley, he will know what his is getting. I also think this will be addressed in the Draft

OL- I thought Mankins signed and extension?? I do know that Matt Light is a FA and have heard he is on his was out of NE, they might bring him in for some depth.

LB's- I think we will Not sign and big name FA's at the LB position. One name to keep and eye on is D'Qwell Jackson, he is a FA LB from CLE. He has been on IR this season but had 154 tackle in 09. Pretty sure he was drafted by Crennell (Not positive though) so he may have a history with him. Also may not be likely to stay in Cleveland due to being on IR this season and with the new coach being Offensive minded, might not look into keeping him.

And the Secondary, I love the idea of Bailey coming to KC. He had spoke about wanting to convert to Safety if he left Denver to prolong his career which would be where we would need him. Could you image that amount of knowledge and experience coaching up our young talented secondary?? That's dangerous! He could take McGraw's spot and rotate with Lewis and FS

Coach
01-14-2011, 12:53 PM
As do I. But I really like Branden Albert being on The Chiefs.

I think he can be the best O-lineman on the team, if he were playing at OG.


Over the last couple of drafts, I have been very opposed to the Chiefs taking another LT to replace Albert because there have been so many other glaring needs. This is a year that I think we could get away with it based upon where we are drafting. I think it may come down to taking the best player available. If a LT has fallen to the 21st spot, then you might pull the trigger because you can move Albert inside. Otherwise you wait and take a RT, C, or G in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.
Last year the Chiefs seemed to use a BPA strategy and it served us very well IMO.

chief31
01-14-2011, 06:23 PM
We need to draft Von Miller with our 1st pick to give us someone across from Hali. Jerrell Powe would be a nice pick in the 2nd round. He would solitify the NT spot for us for years to come. We have the money to go out and sign a WR and someone who can help our secondary or possibly Logan Mankins. What do you guys think of the possibility of bringing in Randy Moss?

Randy Moss? No. What for? He hasn't wanted to play for a while now. I can't see him getting a renewed love for the game anytime soon.

As for using our top pick on a OLB, we ranked tenth in The NFL in Sacks.

While it would be a great luxury to have a second pass-rushing threat, the need is far from as desperate as the WR position, at least IMO.


Over the last couple of drafts, I have been very opposed to the Chiefs taking another LT to replace Albert because there have been so many other glaring needs. This is a year that I think we could get away with it based upon where we are drafting. I think it may come down to taking the best player available. If a LT has fallen to the 21st spot, then you might pull the trigger because you can move Albert inside. Otherwise you wait and take a RT, C, or G in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.
Last year the Chiefs seemed to use a BPA strategy and it served us very well IMO.

I have been all for it because Albert has been, at best, "close to being good" as a LOT, but clearly has the skills to be an outstanding OG.

He was the number one OG on about every draft board, but was an experiment, and a reach, as a LOT.

This year, unless we are lucky enough to get a player to drop down to 21st, we are stuck with continuing to waste our best OG , while leaving our LOT position to an experiment that, after three years, has likely shown what it has to offer.

But then, there's always the possibility of filling the position with a trade or surprise FA.

germaine93
01-14-2011, 07:07 PM
Well. Now that the season is over. Lets start looking at the draft and free agency!

What are your top needs, and who do you want us to pick. It looks like we will be picking either at either 21, 22 or 23 (3 way tie between us Indy and the loser of the GB/Philly game, usu decided by a coin toss).

My top needs:

1. Elite FS
- By far the biggest weakness on our team. Berry will make a great SS. He has the skills to cover zone and man, and is great at coming up against the run. Other than him, we are horrible at safety. It may be better to get someone from free agency. Berry could use some experience to mentor him. (supposedly Champ Bailey wants out of Denver and wants to play FS to prolong his career).

2. OG and/or OC prospect.
-Our interior is getting old. Waters is still playing well, but is one injury away from retiring. Asamoah will likely be really good soon, but Weigmann is getting old, too. Id love to see our 3rd round pick used here.

3. #2 WR
- This will open up our offense immensely. Bowe is constantly double teamed. If he is one-on-one, he will get open. If they double him, then Moeaki, the #2 guy, and the run game will open up. I say draft someone in the 2nd round.

4. OLB
- Vrabel is getting old, isnt getting to the QB and is not the best cover man because he has lost a step. We need someone who is good in coverage, not just a rush guy. Our LBs couldnt keep up with the Ravens' TEs. This could probably be found in either the draft or in FA.

5. NT
- We dont have a true NT. Our DL is good, but Edwards is old and doesnt have the strength to hold up to 2x teams. We need a big beast in the middle. Not sure if there are any great NTs in the draft, or FA.

6. Backup QB
- I think we all agree that Brokie Croyle has lost most of his supporters. I say FA or a low round draft pick.

What are your thoughts?

wow! i cant believe you have fs one? i dont even think we need one imho.....i would put #2 wr 1st and nt 2nd...then offensive line and then lb..... by far the biggest need is wr.

brdempsey69
01-14-2011, 07:26 PM
I have been all for it because Albert has been, at best, "close to being good" as a LOT, but clearly has the skills to be an outstanding OG.

He was the number one OG on about every draft board, but was an experiment, and a reach, as a LOT.

This year, unless we are lucky enough to get a player to drop down to 21st, we are stuck with continuing to waste our best OG , while leaving our LOT position to an experiment that, after three years, has likely shown what it has to offer.

But then, there's always the possibility of filling the position with a trade or surprise FA.

Not to mention that you'd be getting a two-fold upgrade to the O-Line with just one pick. You can't beat that as far as value goes and that's another reason I wanted Russell Okung last year.

Connie Jo
01-14-2011, 09:12 PM
Tough game to watch today..

Need a new OC who can keep developing Cassel, but also stick around and be a little more creative than Weiss was.

Players:

Im not ready to give up on Lewis at FS, he has talent i think.

We need a wide receiver, someone who can run GREAT routes, not good.. but freaking GREAT!
Our receivers have been pretty much shut out several times this year.
Besides when you sign a guy on Tuesday and play him in a playoff game on Sunday (Curtis) then you are in trouble.

NT - Ron Edwards is serviceable, but we need a stronger, younger Nose tackle to complete that line.

Center - Wiegmann is good, but he could realize how damn old he is, any minute now.. Someone younger and stronger would be preferable.

RT - Barry Richardson is up and down, we need someone to challenge him. And not O'Callaghan.

OLB - Im a Vrabel fan, and he has been instrumental in the maturation of this defence. But he is just getting too slow now.
We need a complete linebacker, not just rush, nut just coverage.. Both!
Im a little dissapointed that we didn't see more of Studebaker through out the year, but maybe he is just a good backup and special teamer, and nothing more..

General depth at safety and O-line..

I'm in agreement with all of the above! Not sure how much there is to the rumor, but there are rumors still circulating that Fitzgerald could be a Chief in 2011! I'm liking the vision of Larry & Dwayne as our top WR's!

Bike
01-16-2011, 04:40 AM
1. A legit head coach
2. At least two offensive linemen
3. NT
4. WR.

DO IT.

Ryfo18
01-16-2011, 02:34 PM
Not to mention that you'd be getting a two-fold upgrade to the O-Line with just one pick. You can't beat that as far as value goes and that's another reason I wanted Russell Okung last year.

Your boy Okung is getting whooped today.

brdempsey69
01-16-2011, 03:24 PM
Your boy Okung is getting whooped today.

Doesn't appear to be as bad as what Albert got whipped. Peppers only has one tackle and no sacks.

bwilliams
01-16-2011, 04:16 PM
Doesn't appear to be as bad as what Albert got whipped. Peppers only has one tackle and no sacks.

Okung's had a terrific game. Away, in the snow, against one of the top pass rushers in the NFL, and he's holding his own. He looks like the next great LT out there.

Ryfo18
01-16-2011, 04:21 PM
Okung's had a terrific game. Away, in the snow, against one of the top pass rushers in the NFL, and he's holding his own. He looks like the next great LT out there.

Did you watch the first half? One (should have been two holdings) and constant pressure by Peppers.

brdempsey69
01-16-2011, 04:21 PM
Okung's had a terrific game. Away, in the snow, against one of the top pass rushers in the NFL, and he's holding his own. He looks like the next great LT out there.

Thank you, I'm not able to see the game right now. I'll watch it later on my NFL.com Game Rewind subscription.

I suspected Ryfo18 was posting sour grapes.

bwilliams
01-16-2011, 04:52 PM
Did you watch the first half? One (should have been two holdings) and constant pressure by Peppers.

Okung gave the best playoff performances by a rookie LT that I can remember. Peppers finished with no sacks, two tackles, and (most importantly) no hits on the QB. Even though Seattle spent the whole game in catch-up mode.

I like Berry and all, but if you called tomorrow and offered Berry for Okung straight up, Seattle would spend the next several hours laughing at you.

brdempsey69
01-16-2011, 05:20 PM
Okung gave the best playoff performances by a rookie LT that I can remember. Peppers finished with no sacks, two tackles, and (most importantly) no hits on the QB. Even though Seattle spent the whole game in catch-up mode.


Interesting, no hits on the QB. Certainly a far cry from another LT that we know of that stood there with his hands on hips and watched his QB get clobbered in the season finale against Oakland. Gee, I wonder who that may have been?



I like Berry and all, but if you called tomorrow and offered Berry for Okung straight up, Seattle would spend the next several hours laughing at you.

Seattle and their fans have been laughing since draft day 2010. They got their replacement for Walter Jones. The Chiefs are still waiting for a replacement for Willie Roaf.

Ryfo18
01-16-2011, 07:21 PM
You throw out tackles as a stat for a D-Lineman against a team that ran the ball maybe 10 times? Ha! We should criticize Peppers for not getting downfield on pass plays huh?

Okung gave up 1 hit when Peppers was lined up on the right. I think it was Idonije but I'd have to watch again. I didn't say that the Seahawks would trade Okung for Berry, of course they wouldn't. But I just thought I should point out to brdempsey, who likes to say how Albert "struggles against better pass rushers", that Okung did the same today.

I'll point out again sacks given up this year:

Albert - 7.75 in 16 games
Okung 4 in 10 games

brdempsey69
01-16-2011, 07:40 PM
You throw out tackles as a stat for a D-Lineman against a team that ran the ball maybe 10 times? Ha! We should criticize Peppers for not getting downfield on pass plays huh?


This statement is totally bogus. Peppers job is to get into the opponents backfield and to rush the passer, not get downfield and make tackles, although it's an added bonus when any D-lineman does.



Okung gave up 1 hit when Peppers was lined up on the right. I think it was Idonije but I'd have to watch again. I didn't say that the Seahawks would trade Okung for Berry, of course they wouldn't. But I just thought I should point out to brdempsey, who likes to say how Albert "struggles against better pass rushers", that Okung did the same today.


I'll bet it wasn't to the extent that we've seen Albert struggled in the games against the Chargers and Raiders and Ravens, seeing as how the Hawks attempted 45 passing plays whereas the Chiefs attempted just slightly between 25-30 against the aforementioned opponents.




I'll point out again sacks given up this year:

Albert - 7.75 in 16 games
Okung 4 in 10 games

And with Albert giving up 7 of those "7.75" sacks in the last month of the season, you can throw that right out the window. Plus, Okung had to pass block for a lot more pass plays during that same 10 game span that he played, than Albert did during those same ten games.

Ryfo18
01-16-2011, 07:54 PM
I'm not saying Albert is better than Okung, I'm just pointing out that your poster boy isn't perfect, yet you seem to throw him slack when needed.

He struggled in the first half, but picked it up in the 2nd half of today's game. That post I made was after the first half.

matthewschiefs
01-16-2011, 07:58 PM
And with Albert giving up 7 of those "7.75" sacks in the last month of the season, you can throw that right out the window. Plus, Okung had to pass block for a lot more pass plays during that same 10 game span that he played, than Albert did during those same ten games.


So the fact that Albert went 3 quaters of the season giveing up .75 sacks isn't a sign that he is getting better. He may have hit the wall the last month of the season but in prior seasons he would have given up far more sacks. The question is if Albert can advoid hitting the wall in the comeing years.

Okung gave up almost as many sacks in 6 less games. You can make an excuse that it was with more pass plays but that's just that an excuse.

Ryfo18
01-16-2011, 08:04 PM
So the fact that Albert went 3 quaters of the season giveing up .75 sacks isn't a sign that he is getting better. He may have hit the wall the last month of the season but in prior seasons he would have given up far more sacks. The question is if Albert can advoid hitting the wall in the comeing years.

Okung gave up almost as many sacks in 6 less games. You can make an excuse that it was with more pass plays but that's just that an excuse.

He didn't give up 7 sacks in the last month of the season. He gave up 3 against the Raiders, but the rest of the month he was fine.

bwilliams
01-16-2011, 08:12 PM
He didn't give up 7 sacks in the last month of the season. He gave up 3 against the Raiders, but the rest of the month he was fine.

Isn't this moot? Okung only gave up four sacks his rookie year even though he played with the worst other four starting OL in the league. He had a phenomenal rookie year (including post-season) by any measure.

And does anyone really think Seattle would swap Okung for Albert right now? And does anyone think that KC *wouldn't* swap Albert for Okung right now?

Not to say that we shouldn't have drafted Berry (another debate for another day), but anyone pretending Okung had a bad game is sniffing a lot of glue right now.

Ryfo18
01-16-2011, 08:17 PM
Not to say that we shouldn't have drafted Berry (another debate for another day), but anyone pretending Okung had a bad game is sniffing a lot of glue right now.

Anyone pretending Okung didn't have a bad first half is sniffing a lot of glue right now...

bwilliams
01-16-2011, 08:22 PM
Anyone pretending Okung didn't have a bad first half is sniffing a lot of glue right now...

Maybe we wtched different games. The Okung I saw in the 1st half had a lot of trouble with Peppers, but managed to keep him off his QB. He also had a holding penalty, but that isn't the end of the world. He did as well as any LT could.

What did you see that I didn't?

brdempsey69
01-16-2011, 08:28 PM
Maybe we wtched different games. The Okung I saw in the 1st half had a lot of trouble with Peppers, but managed to keep him off his QB. He also had a holding penalty, but that isn't the end of the world. He did as well as any LT could.

What did you see that I didn't?

He didn't see anything that you didn't see. He's just putting up a phony argument.

Ryfo18
01-16-2011, 08:28 PM
Maybe we wtched different games. The Okung I saw in the 1st half had a lot of trouble with Peppers, but managed to keep him off his QB. He also had a holding penalty, but that isn't the end of the world. He did as well as any LT could.

What did you see that I didn't?

About the 12 minute mark in the 2nd quarter, Okung took the wrong guy and Hasselbeck got hit from a guy coming off the corner....several hurries, a holding...I just like to give brdemspey crap about his boyfriend.

I can't remember the whole game now and each and every thing, but those are a few things a remember. He played better in the 2nd half as I said.

Ryfo18
01-16-2011, 08:29 PM
He didn't see anything that you didn't see. He's just putting up a phony argument.

See above for a few examples...

bwilliams
01-16-2011, 08:40 PM
About the 12 minute mark in the 2nd quarter, Okung took the wrong guy and Hasselbeck got hit from a guy coming off the corner

Okung didn't miss his block. What you're compalining about is Okung's inability to guard two bodies with his one.


....several hurries, a holding...

That isn't bad at all for a rookie LT.


I just like to give brdemspey crap about his boyfriend.

I get that, but your complaints just aren't valid. Okung had a terrific game and is the best rookie OL this year by a long shot.

Ryfo18
01-16-2011, 08:44 PM
Okung didn't miss his block. What you're compalining about is Okung's inability to guard two bodies with his one.

It was the long pass to Mike Williams down the right sideline (incomplete)...Okung double-teamed the defensive end with the guard and a blitzer came off the edge and got Hasselbeck. He also got away with a second holding, but can't really fault him for that if it's not called.




That isn't bad at all for a rookie LT.


It's not terrific either.



I get that, but your complaints just aren't valid. Okung had a terrific game and is the best rookie OL this year by a long shot.


I agree about the latter of that statement.

Ryfo18
01-16-2011, 08:46 PM
And if that's terrific, then I'd like to just say Albert's performance against Freeney was terrific. A couple hurries, one hit.

brdempsey69
01-16-2011, 08:47 PM
...I just like to give brdemspey crap about his boyfriend.



Sounds like sour grapes. Okung was simply my preferred player going into the 2010 draft, and I'm not alone believing it was a mistake passing on him. Your statement referring to Okung as "boyfriend" isn't any different than me telling you "you like wearing rose colored glasses for the sake of your butt-buddy Albert" -- but I never suggested such -- until now.

Ryfo18
01-16-2011, 08:48 PM
Sounds like sour grapes. Okung was simply my preferred player going into the 2010 draft, and I'm not alone believing it was a mistake passing on him. Your statement referring to Okung as "boyfriend" isn't any different than me telling you "you like wearing rose colored glasses for the sake of your butt-buddy Albert" -- but I never suggested such -- until now.

All I'm saying is that you're quick to judge Albert, while not doing the same w/ Okung. That is all.

wilqb16
01-16-2011, 08:56 PM
I actually think we are better off to look for an LOT in free agency.

Overall, I think we are at the point where hopefully the draft won't be as important as a few free agent acquisitions. I think the "window" has opened for us and we are good enough now that we should be looking to develop guys but bringing in guys to fill the now finite number of holes we have.

As such, I think we need to trade our #1 pick, preferably for Fitzgerald but if not him than some other impact player. Also, I think we need to make a splash in free agency. I don't like the idea of drafting a WR (which is our biggest need) because they are a 50/50 proposition at best.

We can get a a center-of-the-future with a later round pick. If we are going to spend our #1 on a draft pick I think it should be at NT or OLB and then go after a WR in free agency. I am not completely sold with Albert at LOT, but it certainly isn't as a big a position of need as at the moment as WR, OLB and NT.

The time is now. We need to act, draft and deal with FA like a team preparing for a superbowl run, not one that is rebuilding anymore.

bwilliams
01-16-2011, 09:22 PM
And if that's terrific, then I'd like to just say Albert's performance against Freeney was terrific. A couple hurries, one hit.

Albert *did* do a terrific job against Freeney. Our whole OL did great that game.

matthewschiefs
01-16-2011, 09:24 PM
I actually think we are better off to look for an LOT in free agency.

Overall, I think we are at the point where hopefully the draft won't be as important as a few free agent acquisitions. I think the "window" has opened for us and we are good enough now that we should be looking to develop guys but bringing in guys to fill the now finite number of holes we have.

As such, I think we need to trade our #1 pick, preferably for Fitzgerald but if not him than some other impact player. Also, I think we need to make a splash in free agency. I don't like the idea of drafting a WR (which is our biggest need) because they are a 50/50 proposition at best.

We can get a a center-of-the-future with a later round pick. If we are going to spend our #1 on a draft pick I think it should be at NT or OLB and then go after a WR in free agency. I am not completely sold with Albert at LOT, but it certainly isn't as a big a position of need as at the moment as WR, OLB and NT.

The time is now. We need to act, draft and deal with FA like a team preparing for a superbowl run, not one that is rebuilding anymore.


That I agree with you on 100%. I no Brdempsey talks about Albert giveing up 7.75 sacks this year but if you look at that and think about it that's not even 1/2 a sack a game. We can live with that. Getting someone who can get to the Qb for our Defense and someone that can be more consitant at WR then Bowe are more important to us winning games.

If we can upgrade the LOT postion just like any other I say fine lets do it. But I don't see that as a must do this offseason.

Ryfo18
01-16-2011, 09:31 PM
That I agree with you on 100%. I no Brdempsey talks about Albert giveing up 7.75 sacks this year but if you look at that and think about it that's not even 1/2 a sack a game. We can live with that. Getting someone who can get to the Qb for our Defense and someone that can be more consitant at WR then Bowe are more important to us winning games.

If we can upgrade the LOT postion just like any other I say fine lets do it. But I don't see that as a must do this offseason.

You summed up my thoughts perfectly.

brdempsey69
01-16-2011, 09:44 PM
All I'm saying is that you're quick to judge Albert, while not doing the same w/ Okung. That is all.

And that is where you are wrong -- TOTALLY. I watched Okung give up a sack and strip against SF and never have I defended any him for anything. That's the exception with Okung -- not the rule. The way Albert got beat over the last part of the season was more the rule than the exception. I've said Okung's a better LT than Albert -- BECAUSE THAT'S THE GOSPEL TRUTH !!

And I just watched that 2nd QTR of the Hawks-Bears game and I must now ask -- what type of glue do you have in your possession? 3 plays in that 2nd QTR -- that's it, 3 plays where Okung struggled and you call that getting whooped? At least he wasn't standing there with his hands on his hips watching his QB get creamed on those 3 plays.


...I no Brdempsey talks about Albert giveing up 7.75 sacks this year but if you look at that and think about it that's not even 1/2 a sack a game. We can live with that.

And at least 6 of those sacks came in the last month of the season -- not just 3 as was stated earlier, that's bogus. Please explain how that qualifies as "improvement". It's not -- it's regression. As far as living with that, who is "we"? Are you pregnant and expecting twins?

Ryfo18
01-16-2011, 09:54 PM
And that is where you are wrong -- TOTALLY. I watched Okung give up a sack and strip against SF and never have I defended any him for anything. That's the exception with Okung -- not the rule. The way Albert got beat over the last part of the season was more the rule than the exception. I've said Okung's a better LT than Albert -- BECAUSE THAT'S THE GOSPEL TRUTH !!


I agree. I don't know what I'm arguing anymore. I want Albert to be good I guess...pathological "apologist".

brdempsey69
01-16-2011, 10:06 PM
I agree. I don't know what I'm arguing anymore. I want Albert to be good I guess...pathological "apologist".

I'd like Albert to be good, too. But watching what happened with him over the last part of the season, was as butt-ugly as it could get.

But, okay I'll bite. Let's go with Albert at LT for 2011, but I still would like Sherrod with the #21 pick ( if available ) and start him out at RT to get him some seasoning and at the same time provide insurance if Albert gets hurt. If Albert continues to struggle with pass-protection, then they will already have a player on their roster to take over the LT in 2012 & if Albert does blossom at the LT position, then the Chiefs have a pair of quality bookend OT's for a long time. I think that's reason enough to take Sherrod at #21 if available.

Ryfo18
01-16-2011, 10:07 PM
So what do you do at the guard position if Albert moves? Who's left out of Lilja, Waters, and Albert in the immediate future?

brdempsey69
01-16-2011, 10:10 PM
So what do you do at the guard position if Albert moves? Who's left out of Lilja, Waters, and Albert in the immediate future?

See my above post & don't forget about Asamoah. Asamoah is going to force his way into the lineup somewhere -- probably at the expense of Lilja, if I had to guess & assuming Waters stays.

bwilliams
01-16-2011, 10:16 PM
So what do you do at the guard position if Albert moves? Who's left out of Lilja, Waters, and Albert in the immediate future?

Easy. If we get a new LT, Waters moves to C, Albert at LG, and keep Lilja at RG.

Asamoah is primary backup and C/RG of the future.

chief31
01-16-2011, 11:36 PM
I'll point out again sacks given up this year:

Albert - 7.75 in 16 games
Okung 4 in 10 games

Have to remember that Okung is a rookie, while Albert was in his third season at LOT in The NFL.



All I'm saying is that you're quick to judge Albert, while not doing the same w/ Okung. That is all.

Three years is not as quick as one.

Also, The Seahawks threw the ball 69 times more than The Chiefs, in 2010.

Albert isn't horrible. But I just don't see how one could call him good.

And if the position is the second most important position on the offense (Certainly debatable, but the pay-scale indicates it) and it has a direct impact on the success, as well as the well-being, of your most important position, then a player who is not good, should be replaced.

chiefnut
01-17-2011, 02:19 PM
Albert is an average nfl LT, probably would be a better RT, we could draft either costanzo or carimi in the first round and move albert to RT if it works out.

Jrudi
01-17-2011, 04:25 PM
I think we need to get the spots filled that we are ageing on the o line before albert. Albert will still be there in a few years. Wigman Waters wont we need to get there replacements first.

Agreed! to much talk about moving Albert to G! With one of the least talented batch of OT's in this years draft, it would be a knee jerk reaction to try and plug in a rookie LT. Albert improves every year. Pioli and Haley will give him another year or two and keep developing him.

I say replace other positions on the O-Line like getting a legit RT or finding replacements for Waters and Wieggmann, before replacing Albert with a rookie class that has been labeled "The least talented class of OT's in years" (Just because of players like Okung, Long, Williams, Smith, and Oher the past few years doesn't mean that this class has one capable of stepping in a saving our line.)

Give him another year, and if there is a top notch legit LT in next years class let's make the move, but not this year.

chiefnut
01-17-2011, 04:42 PM
if wisniewski is available he would solve the center/guard problem