NFL Files Suit Against Players Union

[Hayvern]

NFL files unfair labor practice charge against players' union (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/02/14/AR2011021405647.html)

I am not sure how much of this is just a plow, or what, but the NFL, NOT THE OWNERS, but the league itself has filed suit against the players for non-negotiation.

[matthewschiefs]

I have been saying all along that the players are being greedy just like the owners. I think there might be some merit to what the NFL is saying. The players voted to decertify the union at the very start of last season. That to me shows that the players just like the owners are going to do whatever they can to get what they want. I think the owners are still 75% to blame for this whole mess but this just shows the 25% of the players blame if this would hold up in court.

[buffman316]

I sure hope this gets worked out soon. Rich owners fighting rich players is strange in the every day world, lol. Rookies do make way too much in the draft.

[DMN]

money really is the root of all evil...

:2bang9hj:

[Chiefster]

This is good news....NOT!

[hometeam]

At the owners last offer, pro footbal players would have by far the worst CBA for any league in the world.

Owners are the bad guys here. The players are both the product and the employees, pay them.

[Seek]

At the owners last offer, pro footbal players would have by far the worst CBA for any league in the world.

Owners are the bad guys here. The players are both the product and the employees, pay them.

In the same sense. I think the other leagues CBA is what ruins the game. Those leagues are very lop sided. Be careful with what you are asking for. It may not benefit your favorite team.

[4everchiefsfan25]

In the same sense. I think the other leagues CBA is what ruins the game. Those leagues are very lop sided. Be careful with what you are asking for. It may not benefit your favorite team. example.... Kansas City Royals

[Seek]

example.... Kansas City Royals

Yes, You starting paying players more and taking the money away form the owner paying that salary. The competitive bidding wars, start leaning towards the bigger pocket. It will become harder for the Chiefs to retain their players.

Now, if the additional money to be spent is used solely for retired benefits or structure sthe draft to decrease that first round pick saving but increased later round picks. I am okay with that, but if it is just to give the players more of the CBA pie.. The better players will get more and the average players will think they deserve the big contract and will either leave a team not willing to spend that money, or teams will have to overpay to keep them.

[4everchiefsfan25]

Yes, You starting paying players more and taking the money away form the owner paying that salary. The competitive bidding wars, start leaning towards the bigger pocket. It will become harder for the Chiefs to retain their players.

Now, if the additional money to be spent is used solely for retired benefits or structure sthe draft to decrease that first round pick saving but increased later round picks. I am okay with that, but if it is just to give the players more of the CBA pie.. The better players will get more and the average players will think they deserve the big contract and will either leave a team not willing to spend that money, or teams will have to overpay to keep them.
agreed 100%

[Hayvern]

In the same sense. I think the other leagues CBA is what ruins the game. Those leagues are very lop sided. Be careful with what you are asking for. It may not benefit your favorite team.

There is nothing more true than this statement. Take a look at baseball and see where things are right now. You have a team even like the Cardinals who have arguably the best player in the league and they cannot afford the 30 million per year it will take to sign him.

It is easy to say pay them, but where is the money coming from. This whole statement "pay them" yeah, that is the kind of thing we hear all the time from people who think that the rich just sit back and watch money roll in hand over fist.

The problem here is that the players largely think the same thing. A CBA like baseball has would certainly allow players to get rich, and there will be a few owners who will also still get rich, but then the rest of the teams will suffer. For me, I do not want to see the league become a place where the same teams are winners year in and year out. It is already on the cusp of being a problem as it is.

[Chiefster]

No Diet Coke, no football - make Chiefster something, something.

[OPLookn]

Here's the problem I have with the whole thing of the players saying pay me more, pay me more. In the end the people that end up paying the players are the fans. So if the owners give up more money to the players where do you think the owners are going to get it? That's right the fans. So go ahead players, scream to the heavens SHOW ME THE MONEY!!! and watch yourself get priced out of a job.

Yes the players are the product and the employees but they didn't take the risk to start up the business. If you don't like what you're getting paid go work another job...oh that's right you aren't going to get paid like that anywhere else are you. Put your head down and play ball.

[matthewschiefs]

Here's the problem I have with the whole thing of the players saying pay me more, pay me more. In the end the people that end up paying the players are the fans. So if the owners give up more money to the players where do you think the owners are going to get it? That's right the fans. So go ahead players, scream to the heavens SHOW ME THE MONEY!!! and watch yourself get priced out of a job.

Yes the players are the product and the employees but they didn't take the risk to start up the business. If you don't like what you're getting paid go work another job...oh that's right you aren't going to get paid like that anywhere else are you. Put your head down and play ball.

I 100% agree with this. I have been saying all along that while the owners are being greedy in this whole deal so are the players and that it's going to take both sides to stop being greedy and both agree to give up on some things to work out a deal. I think that it will happen before the season is set to start but I think it will be late may to june before it's done.

[chief31]

Here's the problem I have with the whole thing of the players saying pay me more, pay me more. In the end the people that end up paying the players are the fans. So if the owners give up more money to the players where do you think the owners are going to get it? That's right the fans. So go ahead players, scream to the heavens SHOW ME THE MONEY!!! and watch yourself get priced out of a job.

Yes the players are the product and the employees but they didn't take the risk to start up the business. If you don't like what you're getting paid go work another job...oh that's right you aren't going to get paid like that anywhere else are you. Put your head down and play ball.

I find the financial risk that these owners are being credited with to be next to nothing.

I don't find losing a few million of your billion dollar pile as a risk.

I see it as a luxury.

Same as everyone points out what a luxury it is to be able to play the game for the rewards that they get.

The most notable difference? Someone has to work and make actual risks for the product to exist.

I hear it all the time "I work hard for everything I have!". Yet nobody I have ever met works as hard as a professional athlete, and the owners most certainly don't. Yet it is always the guy who is actually working for the money that gets the blame for greed.

I mean... "So if the owners give up more money to the players where do you think the owners are going to get it? That's right the fans." Here, you have the players being blamed for the owners raising prices for higher profits.

The owners have cancelled the existing contract.

The owners are demanding more work.

The owners are demanding to pay less to the players.

The owners want to put restrictions on rookie salaries.

The owners walked out on the last bargaining session, after being offered 80% of their financial demands.

The players are not demanding more pay. They have offered to take less.

Somehow, with all of the demands that the owners are making, they are going to accuse the other side, in court, of not making serious negotiations?

And yet the consensus seems to be to find a way to deflect blame from the owners onto the players that actually work for the money that we put into the game.

[tornadospotter]

I find the financial risk that these owners are being credited with to be next to nothing.

I don't find losing a few million of your billion dollar pile as a risk.

I see it as a luxury.

Same as everyone points out what a luxury it is to be able to play the game for the rewards that they get.

The most notable difference? Someone has to work and make actual risks for the product to exist.

I hear it all the time "I work hard for everything I have!". Yet nobody I have ever met works as hard as a professional athlete, and the owners most certainly don't. Yet it is always the guy who is actually working for the money that gets the blame for greed.

I mean... "So if the owners give up more money to the players where do you think the owners are going to get it? That's right the fans." Here, you have the players being blamed for the owners raising prices for higher profits.

The owners have cancelled the existing contract.

The owners are demanding more work.

The owners are demanding to pay less to the players.

The owners want to put restrictions on rookie salaries.

The owners walked out on the last bargaining session, after being offered 80% of their financial demands.

The players are not demanding more pay. They have offered to take less.

Somehow, with all of the demands that the owners are making, they are going to accuse the other side, in court, of not making serious negotiations?

And yet the consensus seems to be to find a way to deflect blame from the owners onto the players that actually work for the money that we put into the game.
So you are all for what the players want?

[chief31]

So you are all for what the players want?

Which is...?

Improved healthcare for the average player?

Are there some other demands?

[matthewschiefs]

I find the financial risk that these owners are being credited with to be next to nothing.

I don't find losing a few million of your billion dollar pile as a risk.

I see it as a luxury.

Same as everyone points out what a luxury it is to be able to play the game for the rewards that they get.

The most notable difference? Someone has to work and make actual risks for the product to exist.

I hear it all the time "I work hard for everything I have!". Yet nobody I have ever met works as hard as a professional athlete, and the owners most certainly don't. Yet it is always the guy who is actually working for the money that gets the blame for greed.

I mean... "So if the owners give up more money to the players where do you think the owners are going to get it? That's right the fans." Here, you have the players being blamed for the owners raising prices for higher profits.

The owners have cancelled the existing contract.

The owners are demanding more work.

The owners are demanding to pay less to the players.

The owners want to put restrictions on rookie salaries.

The owners walked out on the last bargaining session, after being offered 80% of their financial demands.

The players are not demanding more pay. They have offered to take less.

Somehow, with all of the demands that the owners are making, they are going to accuse the other side, in court, of not making serious negotiations?

And yet the consensus seems to be to find a way to deflect blame from the owners onto the players that actually work for the money that we put into the game.

While you and I have been through this time and time again I just have a question If a judge would find that the NFLs claim has merit and rule in there favor would that show you that the players are a bigger part of the problem then what you thought before? I no that's a big if I am just curious to know if that would change your thoughts on this whole mess.

[Chiefster]

I just can't help believe that both sides have an equal part in this whole mess. The both need to do some give and take.

[pojote]

These are my thoughts about this issue:

* The players are rich, being payed enormous amounts of money, but economically they deserved it, because none else can do what they do at their level, and pro football is a very profitable industry.

* In every sport league around the world, what most owners seeks, isn't a good profit, it's being a sport venture owner. If you take a look in EPL (English Premiere League), a lot of owners are just rich people, who don't know what to do with their money (poor rich people). How many NLF owners lives from their football incomes?

* In this particular case, the owners are the ones that opted out of current CBA, players don't want to get more money, but not less.

* Salary scale for draft is horrendous. There it is something to improve. NLF teams pays for what the players did in college, not in the league. It's nonsense.

[Seek]

I find the financial risk that these owners are being credited with to be next to nothing.

I don't find losing a few million of your billion dollar pile as a risk.

I see it as a luxury.

Same as everyone points out what a luxury it is to be able to play the game for the rewards that they get.

The most notable difference? Someone has to work and make actual risks for the product to exist.

I hear it all the time "I work hard for everything I have!". Yet nobody I have ever met works as hard as a professional athlete, and the owners most certainly don't. Yet it is always the guy who is actually working for the money that gets the blame for greed.

I mean... "So if the owners give up more money to the players where do you think the owners are going to get it? That's right the fans." Here, you have the players being blamed for the owners raising prices for higher profits.

The owners have cancelled the existing contract.

The owners are demanding more work.

The owners are demanding to pay less to the players.

The owners want to put restrictions on rookie salaries.

The owners walked out on the last bargaining session, after being offered 80% of their financial demands.

The players are not demanding more pay. They have offered to take less.

Somehow, with all of the demands that the owners are making, they are going to accuse the other side, in court, of not making serious negotiations?

And yet the consensus seems to be to find a way to deflect blame from the owners onto the players that actually work for the money that we put into the game.

First off, I highly disagree with the comment about no one works as hard as the athletes. Yeah the owners don't but there are millions of people who work much harder than a professional athlete and get paid millions less. You can not tell me that an athlete works harder than any person is the US service and warrants more money than they do. There are people putting their lives at risk everyday with the police force, and fire departments that get paid very little. People whose main job is to save lives, have to deal with seeing people dead or dying, yet paramedics are paid nothing. Many of them have to take on second jobs on the side to make ends meet.

Then talk about hard taxing jobs of construction, mining, etc.. physical work that drains a person day in and day out.

The players get paid a ton to play. Most of them spend it as they make it. If anything the owners should pay them with some sort of trust fund, preventing them from blowing it all a couple years after they retire.

Second, I am not sure where you heard all of the information about the owners, because that cetrtainly sounded like biased approach. Not saying you are wrong, but everything you mentioned has been discussed on the radio and there is sound logic to what the owners are demanding. There is also sound logic to what the players are asking. There is right and wrong on both sides.

[Hayvern]

La Russa says union is leaning on Pujols; union denies it (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_5ef05b25-d24a-5ea3-9da5-b9df1ed8a5d4.html)

Is this what you guys want seriously? Do you want the players union now twisting the arms of players and agents to hold out for the most money even if the player would take less to stay on a team?

I know this is not football related, but it is if the players get what they want and that is a non-capped league. I could see a world where the union is already strong arming players to hold out for as much as they can forcing owners to bend over to pay them more.

What happens when owners cannot pay? The player goes to another team that can.

BTW, I am so finished with baseball, I am tired of these players holding out for the most money, it will be sacrilage if Pujols goes to the Yankees, but that is what will likely happen now. I am so sick of this, if a deal does not get done and Pujols ends up on another team, I will never watch another baseball game again.

[OPLookn]

I find the financial risk that these owners are being credited with to be next to nothing.

I don't find losing a few million of your billion dollar pile as a risk.

I see it as a luxury.



Acquiring a business and running it is always a risk, if it wasn't then everyone would be a business owner. Who cares if they have piles of money. Every venture is different from another and if I have 10 business each business is independent and I have to keep my eye on the ball for each one of them. So yeah while it's a luxury I've never met a single person that says hey I wanna own something that's going to lose me money every year...well other than a vehicle.




The most notable difference? Someone has to work and make actual risks for the product to exist.

I hear it all the time "I work hard for everything I have!". Yet nobody I have ever met works as hard as a professional athlete, and the owners most certainly don't. Yet it is always the guy who is actually working for the money that gets the blame for greed.


That's complete and utter horse you know what. You seem to be saying that physical work is the only type of work that counts. Any type of business has many facets that you have to account for and be good at. I would say that many of the people in the fortune 500, Coach Haley or Pioli work just as hard or harder as the players do. Because there in shape doesn't make them the hardest workers out there.

Plus as another post had said there are so many other people out there sacrificing more for much less than athletes.



I mean... "So if the owners give up more money to the players where do you think the owners are going to get it? That's right the fans." Here, you have the players being blamed for the owners raising prices for higher profits.


I may be off on this part but I'm pretty sure that I read that the players are paid off of ticket sales. I know for sure that the parking fee's go to the city. So if the players want more the only place they're going to get it is from the fans paying more for seats so yes, they are going to get it from the fans. The rest of the money is from tv deals, jerseys, and beer/food you buy at the games. I'm sure there's more but from what I understand that's why I have a problem with it.



The owners have cancelled the existing contract.

The owners are demanding more work.

The owners are demanding to pay less to the players.

The owners want to put restrictions on rookie salaries.

The owners walked out on the last bargaining session, after being offered 80% of their financial demands.

The players are not demanding more pay. They have offered to take less.

Somehow, with all of the demands that the owners are making, they are going to accuse the other side, in court, of not making serious negotiations?

And yet the consensus seems to be to find a way to deflect blame from the owners onto the players that actually work for the money that we put into the game.


The CBA had one more year in it so I'm not sure why one more year is such a big deal?? Who cares if the owners canceled it...it was going to be a big fight at some point anyway.

Of course the owners wanna pay the players less and put in a rookie pay scale! Do you buy a house or car for what the person originally asks? Why would you give them exactly what they want?

Overall I'm sure both sides came to the table with "I want's" and they were so far off that they're both going to have to come back with realistic expectations.

But to say that the players are being the good guys because they were going to take less money is ridiculous. They may have shifted where the money was going but I can guarantee you're never going to go to your boss and ask to be paid less money. That they're a union and they'd be asking for overall compensation is completely absurd. People are fixating on the CBA asking for less of the profits and not looking at the overall picture. What the owners are looking at is overall compensation and what most of the media focuses on is revenue split.

[matthewschiefs]

First off, I highly disagree with the comment about no one works as hard as the athletes. Yeah the owners don't but there are millions of people who work much harder than a professional athlete and get paid millions less. You can not tell me that an athlete works harder than any person is the US service and warrants more money than they do. There are people putting their lives at risk everyday with the police force, and fire departments that get paid very little. People whose main job is to save lives, have to deal with seeing people dead or dying, yet paramedics are paid nothing. Many of them have to take on second jobs on the side to make ends meet.
This I agree with. The firefighters miltary don't get an offseason. Yes the players still have to stay in shape during this time of year but so do the firefighters and miltary people. The players work harder physicaly then most of us but there are more kinds of work the phusical work.

Acquiring a business and running it is always a risk, if it wasn't then everyone would be a business owner. Who cares if they have piles of money. Every venture is different from another and if I have 10 business each business is independent and I have to keep my eye on the ball for each one of them. So yeah while it's a luxury I've never met a single person that says hey I wanna own something that's going to lose me money every year...well other than a vehicle.




That's complete and utter horse you know what. You seem to be saying that physical work is the only type of work that counts. Any type of business has many facets that you have to account for and be good at. I would say that many of the people in the fortune 500, Coach Haley or Pioli work just as hard or harder as the players do. Because there in shape doesn't make them the hardest workers out there.

Plus as another post had said there are so many other people out there sacrificing more for much less than athletes.



I may be off on this part but I'm pretty sure that I read that the players are paid off of ticket sales. I know for sure that the parking fee's go to the city. So if the players want more the only place they're going to get it is from the fans paying more for seats so yes, they are going to get it from the fans. The rest of the money is from tv deals, jerseys, and beer/food you buy at the games. I'm sure there's more but from what I understand that's why I have a problem with it.



The CBA had one more year in it so I'm not sure why one more year is such a big deal?? Who cares if the owners canceled it...it was going to be a big fight at some point anyway.

Of course the owners wanna pay the players less and put in a rookie pay scale! Do you buy a house or car for what the person originally asks? Why would you give them exactly what they want?

Overall I'm sure both sides came to the table with "I want's" and they were so far off that they're both going to have to come back with realistic expectations.

But to say that the players are being the good guys because they were going to take less money is ridiculous. They may have shifted where the money was going but I can guarantee you're never going to go to your boss and ask to be paid less money. That they're a union and they'd be asking for overall compensation is completely absurd. People are fixating on the CBA asking for less of the profits and not looking at the overall picture. What the owners are looking at is overall compensation and what most of the media focuses on is revenue split.

I don't think you can 100% defend the owners for opting out of the CBA given anther year they would have had more time to work out a deal. But it's not like this whole mess would not have happend if they didn't. And it was the right the owners had to opt out. Do we jump on a player when they take a right they have in the CBA? I don't think so.

Most the media is pro players since a good part of the football media is former players. They are trying to make the players out to be the good guys while the owners are just the greedy bunch holding the players back. I get it everyone hates the bosses. But the owners are doing the same thing the players are fighting to get a better deal for themselfs.

[chief31]

While you and I have been through this time and time again I just have a question If a judge would find that the NFLs claim has merit and rule in there favor would that show you that the players are a bigger part of the problem then what you thought before? I no that's a big if I am just curious to know if that would change your thoughts on this whole mess.

I certainly would.

The only thing that I have heard about the players trying to gain in all of this is improved healthcare.

If there were more, then I would lean less heavily in their favor.

But, all things being equal, I do lean toward the players over the owners. No denying my bias. They are the product that I love, and they are the one's working for the industry.

We pay for what they bring. The owners are just money men.


First off, I highly disagree with the comment about no one works as hard as the athletes. Yeah the owners don't but there are millions of people who work much harder than a professional athlete and get paid millions less. You can not tell me that an athlete works harder than any person is the US service and warrants more money than they do. There are people putting their lives at risk everyday with the police force, and fire departments that get paid very little. People whose main job is to save lives, have to deal with seeing people dead or dying, yet paramedics are paid nothing. Many of them have to take on second jobs on the side to make ends meet.

Then talk about hard taxing jobs of construction, mining, etc.. physical work that drains a person day in and day out.

While many soldiers, police and others may be at a higher risk in their jobs, physically, only the soldier can be compared, and only during basic training to the amount of energy that professional athletes put out.

As for the everyday physical jobs, I have done many of them myself. And no. The physical effort does not match an athlete's.

A lot of factors beyond that physical effort could be included to change my mind about what job is "harder".

And it is just my opinion, either way.




The players get paid a ton to play. Most of them spend it as they make it. If anything the owners should pay them with some sort of trust fund, preventing them from blowing it all a couple years after they retire.

There is certainly some merit to that idea. No argument.


Second, I am not sure where you heard all of the information about the owners, because that cetrtainly sounded like biased approach. Not saying you are wrong, but everything you mentioned has been discussed on the radio and there is sound logic to what the owners are demanding. There is also sound logic to what the players are asking. There is right and wrong on both sides.

Logic, or none, the list of demands is awefully one-sided, as far all that I have heard.


La Russa says union is leaning on Pujols; union denies it (http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/article_5ef05b25-d24a-5ea3-9da5-b9df1ed8a5d4.html)

Is this what you guys want seriously? Do you want the players union now twisting the arms of players and agents to hold out for the most money even if the player would take less to stay on a team?

I know this is not football related, but it is if the players get what they want and that is a non-capped league. I could see a world where the union is already strong arming players to hold out for as much as they can forcing owners to bend over to pay them more.

What happens when owners cannot pay? The player goes to another team that can.

BTW, I am so finished with baseball, I am tired of these players holding out for the most money, it will be sacrilage if Pujols goes to the Yankees, but that is what will likely happen now. I am so sick of this, if a deal does not get done and Pujols ends up on another team, I will never watch another baseball game again.


Baseball does kind of s***.

And, while I have no doubt that players would prefer a non-capped league, I have not heard any mention of the players attempting to put that into the current negotiations.

I believe that the salary cap in The NFL is a foregone conclusion in all current talks.

If it were not, I don't think that the discussions about how to split the "total revenue" and "all revenue" would be present.

But, I don't follow every last bit to the story. So, if you have something that I have missed, I would be happy to see it.

[Hayvern]

I read an article earlier this year about the players pushing for a lift on the salary cap. Unfortunately, I cannot find the article anymore and I have been looking.

If the players were all that concerned about safety and health, why did they scream bloody murder for the changes to the hitting rules? There were a number of players that started claiming that the league was going to be playing flag football now.

I don't really have a side in this deal, except for the fact that both sides are equally as bad, but since we seem to have so many people siding with the union and the players in this, I think it is important to remember that without the owners, and their money, most these guys would be just another juvenile deliquent with a gun or just another drunk driver.

And for those of you who claim that you don't trust the owners, well you had better take a good hard look at the union. Unions are nothing more than legalized extortion.

[Coach]

I think it is important to remember that without the owners, and their money, most these guys would be just another juvenile deliquent with a gun or just another drunk driver.

And for those of you who claim that you don't trust the owners, well you had better take a good hard look at the union. Unions are nothing more than legalized extortion.

Quit holding back and tell us how you really feel Vern.

[chiefnut]

At the owners last offer, pro footbal players would have by far the worst CBA for any league in the world.

Owners are the bad guys here. The players are both the product and the employees, pay them.


so you have read their proposal, where can i find it????

[chiefnut]

so you have read their proposal, where can i find it????


here is a quote i found;
When Ravens owner Steve Bisciotti met with the media in late January, he said the revenue split (60 percent of total revenues to the players after a $1 billion credit off the top to the owners) "is not working for the owners."
"If your business gave you a 50 percent raise and you and your wife started spending 60 percent more money, you're not going to be better off," he said. "Everybody keeps talking about the health of the league because they keep seeing the revenues go up. They don't know that expenses are rising at a higher rate than those revenues. We've got to get that right. We've got to get that in check."
Because no game revenue will be lost unless the lockout lasts until September, the two sides are engaging in a high-stakes poker game. The hard-liners appear to rule the day for now.
"I think there is middle ground to be found," Roberts said. "It's just a matter of convincing enough players, enough owners, that they've got to start making compromises."
ken.murray@baltsun.com



this is all i found w/any actual numbers

[chief31]

If the players were all that concerned about safety and health, why did they scream bloody murder for the changes to the hitting rules? There were a number of players that started claiming that the league was going to be playing flag football now.

There is a pretty big difference between accepting the risks of the job, as-is, and adding to it.

I have to believe that you know that.


I don't really have a side in this deal, except for the fact that both sides are equally as bad, but since we seem to have so many people siding with the union and the players in this, I think it is important to remember that without the owners, and their money, most these guys would be just another juvenile deliquent with a gun or just another drunk driver.

And for those of you who claim that you don't trust the owners, well you had better take a good hard look at the union. Unions are nothing more than legalized extortion.

But you don't have a side. :lol:

While I won't defend a union as completely fair and legit, I will challenge that line of nonsense.

A union is the laborers uniting to create a demand for the product that they provide to a customer.

That is plain and simple capitalism right there. Supply and demand.

The fact is that a union. most certainly, is something more than legalized extortion.

That remark was a lie.

Is there some corruption within some unions? Yep.

But not enough to offset the vast corruption that exists from the elite owners and CEOs.

And dealing with people who excel at finding and exploiting every loop-hole will teach you to find and exploit every loop-hole.

Prior to unions, and in nations that currently allow capitalist corporations to function free of unions or government restrictions, we can easily see how the owners and CEOs will treat those who help them to create their products.

As poorly as they can.

[andrewk78]

Millionaires crying about millionaires. I want to see some football.
They make millions on our tiny *** paycheck backs.

[Hayvern]

There is a pretty big difference between accepting the risks of the job, as-is, and adding to it.

I have to believe that you know that.
But you don't have a side. :lol:

While I won't defend a union as completely fair and legit, I will challenge that line of nonsense.

A union is the laborers uniting to create a demand for the product that they provide to a customer.

That is plain and simple capitalism right there. Supply and demand.

The fact is that a union. most certainly, is something more than legalized extortion.

That remark was a lie.

Is there some corruption within some unions? Yep.

But not enough to offset the vast corruption that exists from the elite owners and CEOs.

And dealing with people who excel at finding and exploiting every loop-hole will teach you to find and exploit every loop-hole.

Prior to unions, and in nations that currently allow capitalist corporations to function free of unions or government restrictions, we can easily see how the owners and CEOs will treat those who help them to create their products.

As poorly as they can.



Players, owners, I have no side on either of those. The union is not doing the players, nor the owners, nor the fans any favors. The Union is the problem here. If the player's strike, I would bet a fair number of them will cross the picket line to play anyway, it happened in 1987.

I had a whole rant prepared with points that proved my point about unions being organized extortion. Let's just suffice to say no one here wants to read that. All I will say is that I never once said that the union was corrupt, nor did I say the players or the owners were corrupt. You can still be an extortionist without being corrupt. Everything they are doing is within the bounds of legality, morally however, everyone of the union reps should be hauled through the street naked!

[NFLLockout]

Hey All -
I'm here from the NFL Players Association, and just wanted to let everyone know that the players are doing everything they can to have an NFL season in 2011. Hopefully these talks with a federal mediator produce some positives and we can get back to what everyone deserves...some football!

[chief31]

Hey All -
I'm here from the NFL Players Association, and just wanted to let everyone know that the players are doing everything they can to have an NFL season in 2011. Hopefully these talks with a federal mediator produce some positives and we can get back to what everyone deserves...some football!

I think that it will all get worked out in time for the season. May miss a game or two, tops.

While the owners may still make money without football, they have to realize that their investment would lose a lot of customers for the future, (see Major League Baseball) if they allow the season to be scrapped.

They might get paid for the TV rights in 2011, but the next time a deal is made for TV, they will take a major hit in what the value of The NFL is measured at.

I am confident that both sides will make the necessary compromises to have a season in 2011, without replacement players.

But my fingers are still crossed.

[tornadospotter]

Hey All -
I'm here from the NFL Players Association, and just wanted to let everyone know that the players are doing everything they can to have an NFL season in 2011. Hopefully these talks with a federal mediator produce some positives and we can get back to what everyone deserves...some football!
All I can say to both the Owners and You the Union, well why should I say it when somebody more famous than me can say what I feel, just make it sooner than to late!

YouTube - CLASSIC LARRY......GIT-R-DONE!!

[NFLLockout]

All I can say to both the Owners and You the Union, well why should I say it when somebody more famous than me can say what I feel, just make it sooner than to late!


There's only 7 days left until the Collective Bargaining Agreement expires, and trust me, we are working hard to reach an agreement. Everyone wants football next year, and we recognize that.

If you are interested in seeing current updates related to the NFLPA and the Lockout, I encourage you to check out our Facebook page here (http://www.facebook.com/NFLLockout).

[Ryfo18]

I have no clue how a fan petition will block the lockout.

[Connie Jo]

money really is the root of all evil...

:2bang9hj:

Nah, not really. I have a quote that relates, a Connie Jo original, haha:

"Money is not the root of all evil, greedy personalities are. Guns do not kill people, killer personalities kill people. It doesn't matter the tool in hand, it is the person holding the tool who is accountable for it's use."

[Connie Jo]

No Diet Coke, no football - make Chiefster something, something.

THIS! Only for me replace it with Diet Dr. Pepper, haha.



I find the financial risk that these owners are being credited with to be next to nothing.

I don't find losing a few million of your billion dollar pile as a risk.

I see it as a luxury.

Same as everyone points out what a luxury it is to be able to play the game for the rewards that they get.

The most notable difference? Someone has to work and make actual risks for the product to exist.

I hear it all the time "I work hard for everything I have!". Yet nobody I have ever met works as hard as a professional athlete, and the owners most certainly don't. Yet it is always the guy who is actually working for the money that gets the blame for greed.

I mean... "So if the owners give up more money to the players where do you think the owners are going to get it? That's right the fans." Here, you have the players being blamed for the owners raising prices for higher profits.

The owners have cancelled the existing contract.

The owners are demanding more work.

The owners are demanding to pay less to the players.

The owners want to put restrictions on rookie salaries.

The owners walked out on the last bargaining session, after being offered 80% of their financial demands.

The players are not demanding more pay. They have offered to take less.

Somehow, with all of the demands that the owners are making, they are going to accuse the other side, in court, of not making serious negotiations?

And yet the consensus seems to be to find a way to deflect blame from the owners onto the players that actually work for the money that we put into the game.

From everything I have read online related to this subject, your opinion is closest to the one I too have concluded, so therefore agree with you. I'm not sure that many fans are doing research prior to forming their independent opinion. :/


Which is...?

Improved healthcare for the average player?

Are there some other demands?

Also preserving & improving player retirement benefits...according to what I've read retired NFL players state in their own words, not hearsay or media hype.


While you and I have been through this time and time again I just have a question If a judge would find that the NFLs claim has merit and rule in there favor would that show you that the players are a bigger part of the problem then what you thought before? I no that's a big if I am just curious to know if that would change your thoughts on this whole mess.

Not me, I wouldn't change my opinion based upon a judges ruling at all. I have formed my opinion doing my own research indepentently of all opinions & bias'. Politics & politicians are involved in this mess behind the scenes between the players/owners/NFL. If you believe all judges are neutral, not bias towards the more powerful politically...well, I would disagree with that 100%.

Judges are politicians, & tied to politicians with self benefiting interests too, especially when it comes to a billion dollar organization/corporation such as the NFL is. We have a country already faced with huge economical problems. A lockout will do major damage to an already failed & struggling economy...to American citizens, business' both big & small in the communities with NFL stadiums. Politicians are paying close attention & involved, trust me.


These are my thoughts about this issue:

* The players are rich, being payed enormous amounts of money, but economically they deserved it, because none else can do what they do at their level, and pro football is a very profitable industry.

* In every sport league around the world, what most owners seeks, isn't a good profit, it's being a sport venture owner. If you take a look in EPL (English Premiere League), a lot of owners are just rich people, who don't know what to do with their money (poor rich people). How many NLF owners lives from their football incomes?

* In this particular case, the owners are the ones that opted out of current CBA, players don't want to get more money, but not less.

* Salary scale for draft is horrendous. There it is something to improve. NLF teams pays for what the players did in college, not in the league. It's nonsense.

The majority of NFL players, boh past & current are not rich, that is a huge misconception formed as a result of media hype over the star players receiving multi million dollar contracts. These negotiations involve protecting past players also, not just current & future.

[Chiefster]

THIS! Only for me replace it with Diet Dr. Pepper, haha...

I'll take Diet DP in a pinch. :D

[tornadospotter]

There's only 7 days left until the Collective Bargaining Agreement expires, and trust me, we are working hard to reach an agreement. Everyone wants football next year, and we recognize that.

If you are interested in seeing current updates related to the NFLPA and the Lockout, I encourage you to check out our Facebook page here (http://www.facebook.com/NFLLockout).
The only update that I am interested in seeing, is that you all have got it done! So do IT!

[matthewschiefs]

The only update that I am interested in seeing, is that you all have got it done! So do IT!

I agree. I did hear that some progress had been made so that's good but I will be glad when this whole thing gets done so we can just talk about football. I really hope that they wrap this up by the draft so we don't have to hear about the CBA throughout the draft.

[matthewschiefs]

I certainly would.

The only thing that I have heard about the players trying to gain in all of this is improved healthcare.

If there were more, then I would lean less heavily in their favor.

But, all things being equal, I do lean toward the players over the owners. No denying my bias. They are the product that I love, and they are the one's working for the industry.

We pay for what they bring. The owners are just money men.



While many soldiers, police and others may be at a higher risk in their jobs, physically, only the soldier can be compared, and only during basic training to the amount of energy that professional athletes put out.

As for the everyday physical jobs, I have done many of them myself. And no. The physical effort does not match an athlete's.

A lot of factors beyond that physical effort could be included to change my mind about what job is "harder".

And it is just my opinion, either way.





There is certainly some merit to that idea. No argument.



Logic, or none, the list of demands is awefully one-sided, as far all that I have heard.




Baseball does kind of s***.

And, while I have no doubt that players would prefer a non-capped league, I have not heard any mention of the players attempting to put that into the current negotiations.

I believe that the salary cap in The NFL is a foregone conclusion in all current talks.

If it were not, I don't think that the discussions about how to split the "total revenue" and "all revenue" would be present.

But, I don't follow every last bit to the story. So, if you have something that I have missed, I would be happy to see it.


I hope it is. I would hate football to become baseball. New york boston area teams always winning just based on the fact they can spend more then anyone else. I hate that in baseball and I would hate it in football. No salary cap would kill the NFL.

[NFLLockout]

Here's another great article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jim_trotter/02/24/labor.hearing/index.html#ixzz1EwSYBemB)about TV revenues and the NFL labor dispute. Do you think the TV revenues hearing could be the key to the labor disputes?

[tornadospotter]

Hey All -
I'm here from the NFL Players Association, and just wanted to let everyone know that the players are doing everything they can to have an NFL season in 2011. Hopefully these talks with a federal mediator produce some positives and we can get back to what everyone deserves...some football!
If you represent the players, as you claim. Then I should ban you! From what information that I have seen, the players are not willing to negotiate in fact, you were planning along to do what you have done. Go get a real world job you over paid morons. I hope the NFL starts all new with players that want to play the game and be paid fair wages. It is not my fault as a fan, that you the players, do not take care of your money. I am a fan of the Kansas City Chiefs, but I only make a small percent of what players get for income. Screw You NFLPA!

[Hayvern]

Here's another great article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jim_trotter/02/24/labor.hearing/index.html#ixzz1EwSYBemB)about TV revenues and the NFL labor dispute. Do you think the TV revenues hearing could be the key to the labor disputes?

You have very few fans here Mr. NFLLockout, or should we change your name to MRDeCertify? You guys never came to the table willing to negotiate. Through ALL of this you never made a counter proposal, you all just sat their on your collective hands and rejected everything that was offered to you.

You should be ashamed of yourself. If you truly cared about the fans, then you would have been willing to work toward a common goal.

Your actions are seen as a vendetta, the biggest thing with going to the courts is to get the owners to open their books so you can see where the money is going. What happens if you find out that the owners really DO need additional money? Hmmm? Are you then just going to concede?

You guys have a tremendous lack of forsight which is typical with the lot of you overpaid 2 year olds. You want what you want and you want it now! Nevermind if the owners are trying to increase revenues, of which you would have gotten 50%! What a lack of thought for the future you idiots have. If revenues increase to 10 billion next year, you would end up getting more money in the end.

But what happens when the revenues drop to 8 billion or lower. Then you guys are going to be screaming how you lost money. Do you think the fans are sticking by you? I don't think so.

You guys need to get together and dump Smith and get someone in there that has an ounce of sanity, you need to swallow a little pride and get back to the table and work something out immediately.

[chief31]

Here's another great article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/jim_trotter/02/24/labor.hearing/index.html#ixzz1EwSYBemB)about TV revenues and the NFL labor dispute. Do you think the TV revenues hearing could be the key to the labor disputes?

There are some of us who haven't given up you yet.

But don't let me do without my Chiefs this season.:bash:

[chief31]

While you and I have been through this time and time again I just have a question If a judge would find that the NFLs claim has merit and rule in there favor would that show you that the players are a bigger part of the problem then what you thought before? I no that's a big if I am just curious to know if that would change your thoughts on this whole mess.


I certainly would.

The only thing that I have heard about the players trying to gain in all of this is improved healthcare.

If there were more, then I would lean less heavily in their favor.

But, all things being equal, I do lean toward the players over the owners. No denying my bias. They are the product that I love, and they are the one's working for the industry.

We pay for what they bring. The owners are just money men.

Funny thing about this exchange we had a month ago...

Since then, a decision was made that the owners were playing dirty, and no decision against the players. Yet you your position does not seem to have changed.

I admitted to having a bias. Others, such as Coach and Hayvern, don't hide theirs.

Anything you want to get off of your chest?:lol:

I think about everybody starts out with a bias, one way, or another, except for those who try not to get too involved, and just take a "blame both sides" approach.

I don't find any fault in having a bias. Just think maybe you have overlooked yours.

[matthewschiefs]

Funny thing about this exchange we had a month ago...

Since then, a decision was made that the owners were playing dirty, and no decision against the players. Yet you your position does not seem to have changed.

I admitted to having a bias. Others, such as Coach and Hayvern, don't hide theirs.

Anything you want to get off of your chest?:lol:

I think about everybody starts out with a bias, one way, or another, except for those who try not to get too involved, and just take a "blame both sides" approach.

I don't find any fault in having a bias. Just think maybe you have overlooked yours.


Let me lay out for you what my thoughts excatly are as to where I think both sides are in the wrong.

Players
Refuseing to talk until the demand to open the books is met. As I have stated before this is not negotiating that's makeing a demand. Excatly what they have claimed the owners are doing.

Takeing this issue to court. This WILL slow down them getting an agreement. Why because courts take a long time they have a lot of cases to hear.

Makeing there "best offer" that 50/50 offer to basicly
where things would stay about the same. That's NOT negotiating that's playing games and trying to sway public opinion.

Telling drafties not to attend the draft. These guys have worked there butts off to get that moment just like the current players. Now when the players won't even sit and talk they are telling these guys to give up that moment.


Owners
Opting out of the contract. While I don't see this as bad as others it did hurt the game. Theres no hideing that.

Asking for more work and less money. There is no excuse for that. And As I have stated in many many post they are greedy.

Not talking until the judge spanked them in court. It was only after that they started to give in on somethings.

Makeing a deal to gain money even in the event of a lockout. That was a move to just outlast the players not get deal done. Theres not denying that.


I don't think that's 2 pro owners or players. I have said I think it's BOTH sides. I just don't think it's fair to blast one side without blasting the other.

[Connie Jo]

I think that it will all get worked out in time for the season. May miss a game or two, tops.

While the owners may still make money without football, they have to realize that their investment would lose a lot of customers for the future, (see Major League Baseball) if they allow the season to be scrapped.

They might get paid for the TV rights in 2011, but the next time a deal is made for TV, they will take a major hit in what the value of The NFL is measured at.

I am confident that both sides will make the necessary compromises to have a season in 2011, without replacement players.

But my fingers are still crossed.


I would agree with you overall, with one exception of consideration overlooked, which is...billionaires with egos often allow their ego to drown out common business sense and/or logic. They can afford to, at least for quite a while, if not indefinitely, remain ignorant to the reality they will lose the trust, loyalty, & respect of fans in significant numbers.

I honestly don't think that either side understands the NFL fan base is a breed all it's own, not like any other fan base, including MLB. We are by far more a dedicated passionate fan base than most relating to other sports. Our dedication works both ways...for and against. I know for a fact that each day this lockout continues hundreds more NFL fans join protests & strike organizations against the NFL owners & players. They're taking long term vows not to return & support the NFL as they once did. Once the trust, respect, & loyalty of an NFL fan is lost, it won't be easy to get back, not as easy as the owners & players likely take for granted it will be.

There is one group organizing a nationwide protest against the NFL & players, the protests to be held at every stadium in America with fans demonstrating. This particular fan base group is very well organized, well spoken in statement and has now obtained national media recognition. The media of course is on the side of the fans, but for different reasons, as the media stands to lose billions in revenue if there's no NFL season, as well as potential job loss. The more publicity the anti NFL fan groups get, the more they will increase in number, spreading like a fatal disease.

My biggest concern & fear is no longer whether or not there will be an NFL season in 2011, rather that the NFL as I've come to know & love it will be destroyed beyond repair due to the lost fan base long term. Fans understandably feel taken for granted, disrespected, and betrayed by both the owners & players. I know I certainly do. Their upset, anger, resentment & bitterness intensifies & deepens more each day this lockout continues, based upon my observations reading articles, statements, & comments across the net on related sites.

The owners and players need to end this NOW, before permanent damage is done, and the NFL as I've known & loved it for an entire lifetime is destroyed. Both sides can attempt to do all the public damage control through their public relations people their blind eyes & hearts desire...it's not working with the NFL fan, not at all. Actions speak louder than words...ALWAYS.