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jap1
04-25-2011, 02:50 PM
So, there are a lot of people who want us to take an OT in the first round. I wouldnt object to this strategy, personally, because our RT is not very good and our LT has not lived up to expectations. However, if we did draft an OT, how would we re-arrange our OL?

A lot of people want to get someone like Costanzo (prob wont be available), Sherrod or Carimi. It is an easy fit if we put them at RT and leave everyone where they are. What about if they wanted to put him at LT?

Where do we put Albert?

LG? This is the position he dominated at in college. Where would we move Waters. Definitely not to Center. Yes he knows how to play center, but I want somone with more experience playing the only position that touches the football on every down. Move Waters to RG? It works, but he may be annoyed by that enough to want to hang it up. I hope Asamoah is ready to start in that scenario. If he doesnt hang it up, then we have too many good quality guards (Albert, Asamoah, Waters, Lilja?).

RG? A new position for him. I have never played or coached OL, so I dont know it well enough to know how different RG is from LG. Not knowing much about it, it seems to be very similar. Plus we have a lot of Guards (see above).

RT? This would require the least movement on the interior line. He's never played RT, but, once again I dont know how different RT is from LT. Can we afford to have another growing period for Albert? Hopefully there wont be.

Not much to talk about until Thursday. Let me know what your thoughts are.

Ryfo18
04-25-2011, 03:38 PM
It's tough to say. It's easy for us as fans to just pluck guys and place them wherever, but the reality of it is that it's just not that easy. If they do go OL in the first round, it's likely Pouncey or a guy they can throw at RT. I don't think they draft a guy that will replace Albert on the left side, mostly because I don't think a guy that is a clear upgrade exists in this draft.

70 chiefsfan70
04-25-2011, 03:55 PM
You make a very good point. But keep in mind, there is not a single LT in the draft that will or could, beat Albert out of that position this year,IMO. So if we were to draft a LT in the first or second round, it really wouldn't effect this years OL too much other than add depth, which we can use. I would however be surprised if we draft an OL in the first 3 rounds, unless of course a sleeper, or one of Great value happens to be there.

Last season we had a great running game, and did really well passing, considering the quality of our WRs, therefore, and that is why I don't see them drafting an OL early. I see our biggest needs being LB and WRs, followed by Corner and NT. And I see us drafting in that order, unless of couse, we have chances on better value.

As I said you raise a great point, how would we place our OL if we draft a starting LT. And for that I have no answer, unless we trade Albert. (and I'm NOT suggesting that we trade him)

chiefnut
04-25-2011, 05:39 PM
if we find a starting LT we would move Albert to RT, he was a better on the right side and it was the CHIEFS who put him at LT. we still need upgrade at RG, a replacement for LG over the next couple years and a new C. as devastating as that sounds most of these can be found in later rounds. the need for a true NT or another pass rusher may be more important for round one

Ryfo18
04-25-2011, 06:01 PM
if we find a starting LT we would move Albert to RT, he was a better on the right side and it was the CHIEFS who put him at LT. we still need upgrade at RG, a replacement for LG over the next couple years and a new C. as devastating as that sounds most of these can be found in later rounds. the need for a true NT or another pass rusher may be more important for round one

Branden Albert was moved to LT by the Chiefs b/c he fared well in a few games in college there. One of the main reasons he wasn't the LT for Virginia is b/c they had guys like D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Eugene Monroe. To date, he has gotten significantly better since his rookie season. From my own evaluations, I don't see an immediate LT upgrade over Albert in this year's draft.

Looking at ProFootballFocus stats, Albert gave up 23 QB pressures one 475 pass attempts...While that's not phenomenal, it's certainly serviceable. 9 of those pressures were when he faced Freeney and Mario Williams. While he does struggle against better pass rushers, I still think it is foolish to move him for a rookie from this draft class.

OPLookn
04-25-2011, 06:08 PM
We need depth for our O-Line! After Asamoah who did a really good job when needed who do we have? I'd say our O-Line is similar to our WR depth in that you'd see someone brought in the day before a game and starting. To me you take Camiri and put him at RT and leave Albert at LT. If Camiri turns out to be a stud try him at LT and move Albert to RT.

There is still a 50/50 chance that Weigman retires especially if there's a lockout that goes into the season. That'd leave us with Waters, Asamoah and Lilja for a LG, C and RG! Even if we move Albert to the interior I'd like to see competition there. With Waters and Weigman on the edge of retirement I'd much rather have to many interior O-Line than just one guy to back up three positions (Asamoah).

Our defense was pretty solid last year and while we did get exploited anyone that says our offense was ok to good really needs to look at the Raiders and Ravens games. We got beat up and blown up. To me the last thing we need to do is add depth to the defense before plugging the gaping holes in our offense. If those are going to be addressed in free agency that's fine and good. But drafts are usually meant to add depth and give rookies a chance to mentored. With that said the Chiefs are still leaking like a dam with lots of holes in it and we need to get people that are going to fight for starting positions and not players that will be ready in a year or two. Just my opinion.

chief31
04-26-2011, 05:38 AM
Last season we had a great running game, and did really well passing, considering the quality of our WRs, therefore, and that is why I don't see them drafting an OL early.

We had a great running game in '09 too. But I believe that LJ and TJ have made it all too clear that only JC is going to be successful running the ball with what we have had the past two seasons.

And our passing game did well in a few games. But really struggled when asked to pass as often as a regular NFL offense.



I don't think they draft a guy that will replace Albert on the left side, mostly because I don't think a guy that is a clear upgrade exists in this draft.

I wouldn't say that there is a clear upgrade at LOT available. But if there is a guy who can be a decent LOT available, then that would be said upgrade.

Albert has been barely tolerable for several years now. And, should an OT be picked and fail to "dethrown" Albert, he could still be a major upgrade at ROT and challenge for the LOT job again next season.

As for the discussion of how to shuffle players should we get a LOT....

What a terrific luxury that would give us. Move Albert to ROT?

Maybe. It would be a position that would fit Albert's strengths/weaknesses better than LOT.

But I would move him to LG. What to do with Waters? (Provided Albert beats him out of the starting job)

Center would work for me, until we get a long-term replacement there.

But Albert has elite OG skills. And is a waste in multiple ways as long as he is played out of position.

I would much rather have him as a beast inside, than an average LOT any day of the week.

What to do with everybody else? Not that important. Give me Albert and Asamoah with a legit LOT and we are finally on our way to forming a complete offense that can drop back to pass with confidence, smash the inside running game on third and two, or just allow Charles to dazzle the world.

pbatrucker
04-26-2011, 08:13 AM
How about Albert, Richardson, Lilja Asomoah and Carmi?
Love Lilja, but at 280, he's to small to play guard against the big boys.

chiefnut
04-26-2011, 10:55 AM
Branden Albert was moved to LT by the Chiefs b/c he fared well in a few games in college there. One of the main reasons he wasn't the LT for Virginia is b/c they had guys like D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Eugene Monroe. To date, he has gotten significantly better since his rookie season. From my own evaluations, I don't see an immediate LT upgrade over Albert in this year's draft.

Looking at ProFootballFocus stats, Albert gave up 23 QB pressures one 475 pass attempts...While that's not phenomenal, it's certainly serviceable. 9 of those pressures were when he faced Freeney and Mario Williams. While he does struggle against better pass rushers, I still think it is foolish to move him for a rookie from this draft class.

i just answered the question posed in this post, i made no comment on alberts abilities. but since you brought it up he has been average at LT and would be better at RT. if you read my entire post i did not recomend taking a LT in the first round as we have more pressing needs i feel.

70 chiefsfan70
04-26-2011, 11:42 AM
We had a great running game in '09 too. But I believe that LJ and TJ have made it all too clear that only JC is going to be successful running the ball with what we have had the past two seasons.

And our passing game did well in a few games. But really struggled when asked to pass as often as a regular NFL offense.




I wouldn't say that there is a clear upgrade at LOT available. But if there is a guy who can be a decent LOT available, then that would be said upgrade.

Albert has been barely tolerable for several years now. And, should an OT be picked and fail to "dethrown" Albert, he could still be a major upgrade at ROT and challenge for the LOT job again next season.

As for the discussion of how to shuffle players should we get a LOT....

What a terrific luxury that would give us. Move Albert to ROT?

Maybe. It would be a position that would fit Albert's strengths/weaknesses better than LOT.

But I would move him to LG. What to do with Waters? (Provided Albert beats him out of the starting job)

Center would work for me, until we get a long-term replacement there.

But Albert has elite OG skills. And is a waste in multiple ways as long as he is played out of position.

I would much rather have him as a beast inside, than an average LOT any day of the week.

What to do with everybody else? Not that important. Give me Albert and Asamoah with a legit LOT and we are finally on our way to forming a complete offense that can drop back to pass with confidence, smash the inside running game on third and two, or just allow Charles to dazzle the world.




You make a lot of good points, we do indeed need to draft an OL.

My point was, I see a pass rusher to be our greatest need, followed by WRs. If we get someone opposite of Hali, we would have even more sacks from Hali, plus the pressure of the new pass rusher, getting more good out of both, or even the rest of the LBs. The same would be true with WRs, we need someone (or two wrs) to take some of the load off Bowe,and more 1 on 1.

We need someone who is a sure handed catcher and a guaranteed first down, if we do find that Wr, Bowe would become better as well, the defense would have to start spreading the field and thus our OL would automaticly look better.

When we have no passing threat, the defense stacks the box with 8 or 9 men, Our TEs and RBs can't hold them back, and we will never find the right OL to defend that. And blitzing also gives the defense an edge on defending the running game. We need to get rid of the ball faster and more efficiently, and yes we do need an OL upgrade. I would like to see Cassel become a quicker passer.

I remember the Raiders and Ravens games all too well. I'm always looking for this year too much, but I do know a first round OL this year ,would be a good thing to get ready for next year. If we draft well this year, and do well in the draft next year, 2012 MAY BE THE YEAR!:bananen_smilies046:

Jrudi
04-26-2011, 01:36 PM
You make a lot of good points, we do indeed need to draft an OL.

My point was, I see a pass rusher to be our greatest need, followed by WRs. If we get someone opposite of Hali, we would have even more sacks from Hali, plus the pressure of the new pass rusher, getting more good out of both, or even the rest of the LBs. The same would be true with WRs, we need someone (or two wrs) to take some of the load off Bowe,and more 1 on 1.

We need someone who is a sure handed catcher and a guaranteed first down, if we do find that Wr, Bowe would become better as well, the defense would have to start spreading the field and thus our OL would automaticly look better.

When we have no passing threat, the defense stacks the box with 8 or 9 men, Our TEs and RBs can't hold them back, and we will never find the right OL to defend that. And blitzing also gives the defense an edge on defending the running game. We need to get rid of the ball faster and more efficiently, and yes we do need an OL upgrade. I would like to see Cassel become a quicker passer.

I remember the Raiders and Ravens games all too well. I'm always looking for this year too much, but I do know a first round OL this year ,would be a good thing to get ready for next year. If we draft well this year, and do well in the draft next year, 2012 MAY BE THE YEAR!:bananen_smilies046:

I do agree with the WR2 being high on the list of needs. I actually credit the stagnant offensive outings against Oakland and Baltimore more to not having a WR2. Than bad O-line play (Yes the o-line play could have been better) but, Cassel had absolutely no options in the passing game. The Ravens doubled Bowe, and kept and Eye on McCluster at all times. Getting a legit WR2 will allow for many options on offense, and relieve pressure on our O-line and Cassel.

If you think about it (I do think we will need to address o-line sooner or later) but I can't name 1 player under contract that should be a decent starter at WR2 for us right now. At least we have some sort of options at O-line. Which is why I think they address WR2 in rounds 2 or 3 with Hankerson, or Smith, or someone similar to this (Also bring in a FA when the time comes) that can come in and start or make an impact at WR2, and address O-line Depth in lets say round 4. This will give us a starter at a position without shuffling anyone around, and allow us to develop a prospect on our O-line. I think next year is the year they spend a 1st rounder on O-line. (Unless the cards fall this year I won't rule it completely out)

I think they were happy with the progression of the line last year, and have started to find successors for our older players (I think they will look for a C and OT in rounds 4 and 5) But not round 1 unless an OT is the best that is left. I don't think that is the initial strategy.

jap1
04-26-2011, 09:55 PM
We had a great running game in '09 too. But I believe that LJ and TJ have made it all too clear that only JC is going to be successful running the ball with what we have had the past two seasons.

And our passing game did well in a few games. But really struggled when asked to pass as often as a regular NFL offense.




I wouldn't say that there is a clear upgrade at LOT available. But if there is a guy who can be a decent LOT available, then that would be said upgrade.

Albert has been barely tolerable for several years now. And, should an OT be picked and fail to "dethrown" Albert, he could still be a major upgrade at ROT and challenge for the LOT job again next season.

As for the discussion of how to shuffle players should we get a LOT....

What a terrific luxury that would give us. Move Albert to ROT?

Maybe. It would be a position that would fit Albert's strengths/weaknesses better than LOT.

But I would move him to LG. What to do with Waters? (Provided Albert beats him out of the starting job)

Center would work for me, until we get a long-term replacement there.

But Albert has elite OG skills. And is a waste in multiple ways as long as he is played out of position.

I would much rather have him as a beast inside, than an average LOT any day of the week.

What to do with everybody else? Not that important. Give me Albert and Asamoah with a legit LOT and we are finally on our way to forming a complete offense that can drop back to pass with confidence, smash the inside running game on third and two, or just allow Charles to dazzle the world.

I agree with most of what you have said. The only part I hesitate to agree with is putting Waters at center. When was the last time he actually snapped the ball in a game situation? I would be surprised if Waters was anything better than average at C. I would probably be surprised if he was even average. From what I understand it is difficult to accurately and quickly snap the ball back while moving forward to block some of the biggest and strongest guys in the league. If we were to move Albert to G, and wanted to start Asamoah, then Waters becomes "expendable" in my opinion. Unfortunately, he is probably too old to be of any value in a trade.

The only way I really see this working is if we got a C in the 2nd or 3rd round to either start right away (if Weigmann hangs it up) or to sit a year behind Weigmann. Oh, and I think the lockout taking away the offseason training probably helps Weigmann's chances to play again. The offseason can be brutal on some guys, and a lot of players would love to be able to skip it and go straight into the season (see Favre, Brett).

chiefnut
04-27-2011, 10:03 AM
according to parcells there are really no super star LT in this years class but many functional OL that can be had thru the first 2 or 3 rounds, and there is only one true impact nose tackle for a pro 3-4 defense and that was phil taylor. i do agree w/that but he also really likes newton so that puts a kink in his judgement armor and he was the guy who drafted pat white too.

chief31
04-27-2011, 12:55 PM
I agree with most of what you have said. The only part I hesitate to agree with is putting Waters at center. When was the last time he actually snapped the ball in a game situation? I would be surprised if Waters was anything better than average at C. I would probably be surprised if he was even average. From what I understand it is difficult to accurately and quickly snap the ball back while moving forward to block some of the biggest and strongest guys in the league. If we were to move Albert to G, and wanted to start Asamoah, then Waters becomes "expendable" in my opinion. Unfortunately, he is probably too old to be of any value in a trade.

The only way I really see this working is if we got a C in the 2nd or 3rd round to either start right away (if Weigmann hangs it up) or to sit a year behind Weigmann. Oh, and I think the lockout taking away the offseason training probably helps Weigmann's chances to play again. The offseason can be brutal on some guys, and a lot of players would love to be able to skip it and go straight into the season (see Favre, Brett).

Yeah. I had noticed you weren't too fond of Waters at Center. But, he would be surrounded by top-notch talent and would have little area to have to cover.

Snapping the ball is actually a major advantage, as you are the first player to move, on either side of the ball. The tough part is handling the strength of run-stuffing DTs and NTs, or just learning where to be, and when.

Having the twin beasts around him (Albert on his left and Asamoah on his right) would help against the strength, and being a vet would help with knowing the job.

I think he would be fine under those conditions.

But either way, I would be thrilled if we were to get anybody who could beat out Albert at LOT. If for no other reason that to get Albert back inside, where he should be one of the best in the league.

If Waters doesn't work at C, somebody will do a passable job. And LOT and LG would both be upgraded for a long time.

DC_Chiefsfan
04-27-2011, 04:57 PM
I still like Nate Solder. I think he'll be the pick at no. 21 and be an absolute beast at RT next year and possibly LT the year after. I also see us picking up the Center from Cincinnati, Kelce. He's apparently pretty nasty.