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View Full Version : IF we have the first pick in 2012 do we go for Andrew Luck



doobs_05
09-13-2011, 02:36 AM
So lets say we do get the first pick overall, do we go for Andrew Luck (if he is still considered #1)or do we trade the pick or draft someone else?

josh1971
09-13-2011, 02:39 AM
Nah- I think we have to go O-line, stud tackle or guard.

DMN
09-13-2011, 02:47 AM
horse ****.... we take luck.

jmlamerson
09-13-2011, 10:57 AM
horse ****.... we take luck.

Quoted for truth. Cassel is a decent QB but the best you can hope from him is that he doesn't lose games for you. We need a guy who can win games on his arm - Luck is a guy like that.

Coach
09-13-2011, 12:34 PM
Llllluuuuuccccckkkkkk.(that is me running to the podium).

Ryfo18
09-13-2011, 01:11 PM
Absolutely. You don't pass on perhaps the best QB prospect to come out of the draft since Peyton Manning.

azchiefsfan
09-13-2011, 01:14 PM
Just remember, Ryan Leaf was ranked the same as Manning that year. Just sayin'. Top ranked QB's are bad more often than good.

Ryfo18
09-13-2011, 01:18 PM
Just remember, Ryan Leaf was ranked the same as Manning that year. Just sayin'. Top ranked QB's are bad more often than good.

I'd say there are more exceptions (Jamarcus Russell, Ryan Leaf)...Most QBs drafted in the 1st round do well in the NFL. 2nd round quarterbacks on the other hand typically do not. Luck is a without a doubt #1 pick. I've watched the guy play, he makes throws that few NFL quarterbacks can make.

KCraised
09-13-2011, 01:44 PM
horse ****.... we take luck.

You stole my thread response...;)

azchiefsfan
09-13-2011, 01:47 PM
1st Round NFL Quarterbacks of This Decade: A Recap | Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/402469-1st-round-quarterbacks-of-this-decade-a-recap/page/2)

Here is a list of all 1st round draft QB's. Despite what the loser writer writes(I only linked the article for the list), we have a 67% chance of getting a steaming pile of excrement rather than a good QB.

Pennington #18 2000-Bust
Vick #1 2001-Bust for Atlanta/Good after prison
Carr #1 2002-Bust
Harrington # 2002-Bust
Ramsey #32 2002-Bust
Palmer #1 2003-Bust(one good season)
Leftwich #7 2003-Bust
Boller #19 2003-Bust
Grossman #22 2003-Bust for Bears/Potential with DC
Manning #1 2004-Winner
Rivers #4 2004-Winner
Roethlisberger #11 2004-Winner
Lossman #22 2004-Bust
Smith #1 2005-Bust
Rodgers #24 2005-Winner
Campbell #25 2005-Bust
Young #3 2006-Bust
Leinhart #10 2006-Bust
Cutler #11 2006-Jury's still out
Russell #1 2007-Bust
Quinn #22 2007-Bust
Ryan #3 2008-Winner
Flacco #18 2008-Winner
Stafford #1 2009-Jury's still out
Sanchez #5 2009-Winner/Jury's still out
Freeman #17 2009-Winner/Jury's still out
Bradford #1 2010-Jury's still out
Tebow #25 2010-Bust

azchiefsfan
09-13-2011, 02:22 PM
I also think Cassel is a good QB. This team failed at every position, but Cassel, and people want him thrown overboard. It makes no sense. When given just a little protection last year, he threw for the most TD's to Bowe. He had no time to throw Sunday and yet it's "Cassels fault". To each his own, but I think it's nuts.

Ryfo18
09-13-2011, 03:42 PM
I also think Cassel is a good QB. This team failed at every position, but Cassel, and people want him thrown overboard. It makes no sense. When given just a little protection last year, he threw for the most TD's to Bowe. He had no time to throw Sunday and yet it's "Cassels fault". To each his own, but I think it's nuts.

Last year the Chiefs had undeniably one of the easiest pass schedules in the history of the NFL, and that is no exaggeration.

Cassel would battle for a starting job on probably 26 other teams in the NFL. Say what you want about past trends for quarterbacks, I can say with about 99% certainty that Andrew Luck will not be a bust in this league. He's already run an NFL offense under a current NFL head coach and flourished. His arm strength rivals that of Aaron Rodgers, and his accuracy is unquestionable.

Personally, I hope we're not in the "Suck for Luck" sweepstakes this year, but you have to take him if you have the #1 overall pick in 2012.

Jrudi
09-13-2011, 03:44 PM
Agree that a high % of 1st Round QB's don't live up to expectations, I'm sure a lot of that has to do with getting tossed into bad situations.

That Being Said, I've heard Luck is supposedly the best QB prospect since John Elway, some people state that he is better coming out of college than Manning... I'm not sure, If we are in a position to draft him, I wouldn't mind him setting out a year or a half of a season behind Cassel, or trading the pick for a large # of picks that could contribute. (To be honest if we traded the pick, we could possibly land A LOT of really good talent)

That being said as well..... It's 1 game down, why are we talking about the #1 pick. If it's week 12 and we are 2-10, then I might re-visit this conversation. As for now, we don't know.

azchiefsfan
09-13-2011, 03:45 PM
Uh, anyone remember what was being said about Tebow last year?

azchiefsfan
09-13-2011, 03:59 PM
You take andrew luck, its a no brainer. End thread

And the final authority on Chiefs football has spoken. So I guess that means enough said? Not gonna write what I'm thinking, this being a family forum and all.....

Chiefster
09-13-2011, 04:11 PM
I know we stunk it up Sunday, but it's a little early to start talking about being the front runner in the draft isn't it?

DMN
09-13-2011, 04:23 PM
I know we stunk it up Sunday, but it's a little early to start talking about being the front runner in the draft isn't it?

I do understand this point and the logic side of me agrees. But there is absolutely no excuse for what we saw sunday... Innocent until proven Guilty... and after a bills blowout at home I have my evidence. There is so much wrong with this team that I can't believe they prove effective this year at all. Even if they start to gel and figure out what works by mid season then we get to enjoy the Week 11-15 Pats, Jets, Bears, Steelers, and Packers to virtually finish up the season.

I mean Andrew Luck talk... Why not? This team gave us nothing else to talk about.



Uh, anyone remember what was being said about Tebow last year?

Yeah that he could see some real struggles transitioning to the NFL with his skill set and that he had bad mechanics...

He was ranked as a 3rd round pick on most draft boards. McDaniels had some sort of man crush for him to be picked at 25.

Andrew Luck on the other hand... Well watch some highlights and decide for yourself.

Ryfo18
09-13-2011, 04:25 PM
I realize this is just one throw, but how many quarterbacks can throw a 45 yard strike while falling down? This guy's arm strength and accuracy are unreal:

Andrew Luck throws 50 yd pass while falling to his knees (Stanford-ASU game, Nov. 13, 2010) - YouTube

Chiefster
09-13-2011, 04:37 PM
I do understand this point and the logic side of me agrees. But there is absolutely no excuse for what we saw sunday... Innocent until proven Guilty... and after a bills blowout at home I have my evidence. There is so much wrong with this team that I can't believe they prove effective this year at all. Even if they start to gel and figure out what works by mid season then we get to enjoy the Week 11-15 Pats, Jets, Bears, Steelers, and Packers to virtually finish up the season.

I mean Andrew Luck talk... Why not? This team gave us nothing else to talk about...

Oh they gave us plenty to talk about; just none of it very pleasant, but I understand what you're saying and agree. My only point is that even with the overwhelming evidence at hand there are simply too many variables at play at this point to begin even thinking about being in a position to grab Andrew Luck in the first round of the 2012 draft; especially after just the first week of the 2011 season.

...Just my two cents. :bananen_smilies046:

SIC J
09-13-2011, 04:55 PM
Ill say it before and i will say it again. Cassel cannot move the ball down the field without a running game. Look at oakland game last year, balt, buff this year and last etc.. He cant sit in shotgun and deliver the ball down field. The guy makes peyton manning/tom brady/drew brees money and he is NO WHERE NEAR their level. He is mediocre at best

10 mil a year is NOT Manning/Brady/Brees money.

DMN
09-13-2011, 05:49 PM
Oh they gave us plenty to talk about; just none of it very pleasant, but I understand what you're saying and agree. My only point is that even with the overwhelming evidence at hand there are simply too many variables at play at this point to begin even thinking about being in a position to grab Andrew Luck in the first round of the 2012 draft; especially after just the first week of the 2011 season.

...Just my two cents. :bananen_smilies046:

Unfortunately we are only 1 year removed from the 3 year $hit show that was the 07-09 Chiefs. And because of this we have somewhat become ingrained with pessimism because we were let down game after game.

Even when watching the game on sunday there were a group of bills fans saying "Don't worry we collapse in the second half, you guys have a chance" and other things to that effect, not able to digest that their team played that well. Whereas, and I can only speculate, Steelers fans will let this week go as a slide knowing that their team has enjoyed way more success than failure in recent years.

My Love for the Chiefs works sorta like maybe a love affair with a Woman. And lets say we have been together 4 years. Well the first 3 she cheated on me time and time again. And we would go through a week long counseling session trying to restore my pride, and even my friends would say "don't worry, we will turn it around next week" And what would happen that very next Sunday.... BAM, cheats on me again for 3 straight hours, and it hurt so bad I couldn't look away.

Then came last year. She stopped hangin out with some of her dumb *** friends (Germ and the Queen) and vowed to change her ways. And for a whole year looked like she was committed to her new ways and that she wasn't going to look back.

And this brings us to now... I am not sure what to think because Sunday she went out with one of her ex's to just "hang out". So I can't say they definately banged but they sure as hell got to 3rd base.... and that is all I need to get panicked.



And yes I know I have completely lost my mind... And for gods sake... GO CHIEFS!!!!!!

SIC J
09-13-2011, 06:03 PM
This is pioli's third year, we should be seeing playoff/sb contenders. Not getting blown out 41-7 to a 4-12 team buff was last year. Three years is plenty of time to get a good squad together

SB contenders in 3 years from a completely destroyed and **** team? Really? LOL

SAPHOJUNKIE
09-13-2011, 06:25 PM
So lets say we do get the first pick overall, do we go for Andrew Luck (if he is still considered #1)or do we trade the pick or draft someone else?

I'm pro-Haley, pro-pioli, and I'm happy enough with Cassel, both for his leadership and ability to actually win games.

If we have the #1 overall pick, we take Andrew Luck and never ever ever look back.

1. Smart
2. Arm strength
3. Accuracy
4. Pocket awareness
5. Winner
6. Character
7. Size
8. Athleticism

Dude has it all, and has a lot of it.

Bike
09-13-2011, 07:30 PM
Agree that a high % of 1st Round QB's don't live up to expectations, I'm sure a lot of that has to do with getting tossed into bad situations.

That Being Said, I've heard Luck is supposedly the best QB prospect since John Elway, some people state that he is better coming out of college than Manning... I'm not sure, If we are in a position to draft him, I wouldn't mind him setting out a year or a half of a season behind Cassel, or trading the pick for a large # of picks that could contribute. (To be honest if we traded the pick, we could possibly land A LOT of really good talent)

That being said as well..... It's 1 game down, why are we talking about the #1 pick. If it's week 12 and we are 2-10, then I might re-visit this conversation. As for now, we don't know.
If we are in a position to draft Luck, no way I would trade him - or sit him. Throw him to the wolves from day one and take are lumps.

Bike
09-13-2011, 07:32 PM
We def arent a competitive playoff team. 3 years is time to atleast MOVE FORWARD. We are going to go 3-13 this year
We need a strong, common sense head coach to go with Luck. If Pioli can't see this, we're in for a long ride.

jmlamerson
09-13-2011, 07:41 PM
1st Round NFL Quarterbacks of This Decade: A Recap | Bleacher Report (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/402469-1st-round-quarterbacks-of-this-decade-a-recap/page/2)

Here is a list of all 1st round draft QB's. Despite what the loser writer writes(I only linked the article for the list), we have a 67% chance of getting a steaming pile of excrement rather than a good QB.

Pennington #18 2000-Bust
Vick #1 2001-Bust for Atlanta/Good after prison
Carr #1 2002-Bust
Harrington # 2002-Bust
Ramsey #32 2002-Bust
Palmer #1 2003-Bust(one good season)
Leftwich #7 2003-Bust
Boller #19 2003-Bust
Grossman #22 2003-Bust for Bears/Potential with DC
Manning #1 2004-Winner
Rivers #4 2004-Winner
Roethlisberger #11 2004-Winner
Lossman #22 2004-Bust
Smith #1 2005-Bust
Rodgers #24 2005-Winner
Campbell #25 2005-Bust
Young #3 2006-Bust
Leinhart #10 2006-Bust
Cutler #11 2006-Jury's still out
Russell #1 2007-Bust
Quinn #22 2007-Bust
Ryan #3 2008-Winner
Flacco #18 2008-Winner
Stafford #1 2009-Jury's still out
Sanchez #5 2009-Winner/Jury's still out
Freeman #17 2009-Winner/Jury's still out
Bradford #1 2010-Jury's still out
Tebow #25 2010-Bust

That list is terible. Pennington and Vick took the teams that drafted them to conference championships. Grossman took his to a Super Bowl. Cutler was stupidly traded and promptly took his new team to a conference championship. Palmer was a pro bowler who took bad Bengals teams to two division championships. Young is vastly underrated and has an overall winning record. It is way too early to call Tebow a bust, given Denver's stupidity.

Chiefs fanatic
09-13-2011, 07:41 PM
If we get the number one pick it means that Cassel had a really bad year and we should take Luck. The only other thing we should consider doing is trading the pick as I think other teams will be willing to give up the farm to get Luck.

SAPHOJUNKIE
09-13-2011, 08:29 PM
That list is terible. Pennington and Vick took the teams that drafted them to conference championships. Grossman took his to a Super Bowl. Cutler was stupidly traded and promptly took his new team to a conference championship. Palmer was a pro bowler who took bad Bengals teams to two division championships. Young is vastly underrated and has an overall winning record. It is way too early to call Tebow a bust, given Denver's stupidity.

Vince Young was the offensive rookie of the year as well.

jmlamerson
09-13-2011, 08:37 PM
Vince Young was the offensive rookie of the year as well.

Yep. People need to go to pro-football-reference and look at his wins/stats before bashing him. He's a good QB who could have been great if he'd been groomed properly.

KristofLaw
09-13-2011, 09:19 PM
I know we stunk it up Sunday, but it's a little early to start talking about being the front runner in the draft isn't it?

No doubt. I've never been one to advocate losing on purpose for drafting someone... if we get the opportunity to draft Luck I hope we earn it. :D

2010chiefs
09-13-2011, 09:21 PM
With Hailey's ego and stubborness about going with Cassel, it's hard to believe he would even pick Andrew Luck. He hasn't even picked up a decent back up QB in case Cassel stinks up half the season. What is it going to take to get this man to see what we are seeing. I wouldn't have mind if Cassel was pulled the last quarter to see if we can get some type of momentum but Hailey is a stubborn man. That's why Weis and Gailey are gone and that's why we never went after McDaniels or any other proven OC. Hailey is still learning to coach and making too many mistakes along the way. Why the hell did we lose Waters and Smith! I don't get it. Detroit will be no walk in the park next week. GO CHIEFS!

azchiefsfan
09-13-2011, 09:30 PM
Yep. People need to go to pro-football-reference and look at his wins/stats before bashing him. He's a good QB who could have been great if he'd been groomed properly.

That's why almost everyone mentioned in the last 3 posts have been cut or traded for nothing.

jmlamerson
09-13-2011, 11:20 PM
That's why almost everyone mentioned in the last 3 posts have been cut or traded for nothing.

Most GMs are idiots. That's how come a few teams like the Packers, Pats, and Steelers are always contending and most teams are always pretending.

Chiefster
09-14-2011, 01:40 AM
...And yes I know I have completely lost my mind... And for gods sake... GO CHIEFS!!!!!!

:lol:

Yes! Please, GO CHIEFS!

josh1971
09-14-2011, 01:42 AM
Fans know *way* more than GMs...

doobs_05
09-14-2011, 03:23 AM
Fans know *way* more than GMs...

I would of tried to sign some really good FA this year with the Cap room we had

JailbreakRdr
09-14-2011, 08:35 AM
Luck would struggle with your OL. I'd focus on fixing that first.

Besides, you don't really think the Chiefs are that bad do you? Chiefs won't win the division again, but are far from the worst team in the NFL.

jmlamerson
09-14-2011, 10:58 AM
Luck would struggle with your OL. I'd focus on fixing that first.

Besides, you don't really think the Chiefs are that bad do you? Chiefs won't win the division again, but are far from the worst team in the NFL.

If Manning is out, the Colts will probably be the worst team. Bill Polian is a bad GM that no one realizes is a bad GM because his QB has single-handedly made him look good.

SAPHOJUNKIE
09-15-2011, 02:58 PM
I could of done what we have done so far. Let's look at it shall we?


Horrible 09 draft with tyson jackson and trading our second round pick for matt cassel.

Pays Tyson jackson and cassel about 11 million dollars a year.

Solid 10 draft

Horrible 11 draft, drafted the dumbest player in professional sports.

Past 3 years he signs a bunch of nobodies like sabby piscitelli and chris manno.

Yes, I am pretty sure I could of topped that

FIRST OF ALL

PEOPLE - It's "I would have" not "I would of"

I would of doesn't make any $*#&% sense.

SECOND OF ALL

The 11 draft is horrible? Really? REALLY?

ONE GAME IN and you're saying it was horrible. I have patiently sat here and watched you post moronic statement after moronic statement. Your venom for the Chiefs is only surpassed by your insipid commentary.

Let me guess, your big problem was that we drafted Baldwin, right? That makes the whole draft horrible?

You do realize that we traded back before getting Baldwin, picking up a third rounder in the exchange, which we used on Allen Bailey, right? No, of course you don't realize that.

While we reached on Baldwin, the first four players we drafted ALL have first round talent. All of them. Hands down. They all had a reason they were drafted later:

1. Baldwin - baggage
2. Hudson - size
3. Houston - weed
4. Bailey - inconsistency

That said, all of these guys could, if they can overcome their personal drawbacks, play every bit as effectively as a first rounder. They all have high, high upside. That's a good draft. We needed more talent.

Let's also not forget Jerrell Powe, who has so far looked like a legit contender for a starting spot at nose tackle down the line.

Kelly Gregg was a good signing.
Brandon Siler got injured. I'm sure you blame Pioli for that.

Breaston was a good signing, and everyone was excited about it. The guy provided a skill set we desperately lacked.

Gaither is a good signing (super cheap for such explosive upside)

Besides, did it ever occur to you that these were not the years to sign free agents? Maybe you should try drafting the talent you need, then fill in holes later? Yeah, we could have signed Atogwe two years ago, but I'd rather have drafted Berry.

By the way, everyone was *****ING when we drafted Kendrick Lewis. "We just drafted Eric Berry!! WTF?!" Well, guess what? Pioli was a genius for making sure we had two young, talented safeties.

Now, do we need more depth? Of course we do. But this team is doing it right - they're drafting it and not buying it. That's how you get depth. No free agent is going to come here to be a backup. You have to draft guys and have them compete.

Sooooo sorry you thought we could turn around a decade of failure in two years, but there is a talent pipeline, and it takes time to do it right. You have to make sure you don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, and sadly, sometimes that means not spending $33 million on new bathwater.

SAPHOJUNKIE
09-15-2011, 03:00 PM
If Manning is out, the Colts will probably be the worst team. Bill Polian is a bad GM that no one realizes is a bad GM because his QB has single-handedly made him look good.

Two years ago, I would have thought this was a dumb comment. I think I agree with you.

This team seems to consistently whiff on their first round picks.

jmlamerson
09-15-2011, 08:20 PM
Two years ago, I would have thought this was a dumb comment. I think I agree with you.

This team seems to consistently whiff on their first round picks.

I firmly believe that if Manning had been on great team like the Steelers/Pats instead of Roethlisberger/Brady, he'd have 5+ rings. He is the Wilt Chamberlain of the NFL. Maybe the best all-time except he doesn't have the hardware that the other elites have.

AkChief49
09-15-2011, 08:38 PM
While we reached on Baldwin, the first four players we drafted ALL have first round talent. All of them. Hands down. They all had a reason they were drafted later:

1. Baldwin - baggage
2. Hudson - size
3. Houston - weed
4. Bailey - inconsistency

That said, all of these guys could, if they can overcome their personal drawbacks, play every bit as effectively as a first rounder. They all have high, high upside. That's a good draft. We needed more talent.


Is Houston's upside higher?:SmokinBanana::D sorry, I agree with your post by the way. Now, back to the :efpge:

dietsch
09-15-2011, 08:39 PM
Of course we do. If we are the WORST team, obviously we need an impact player that will change the franchise for yeats and cassell would by then obviously not be the answer.

SAPHOJUNKIE
09-15-2011, 08:59 PM
Is Houston's upside higher?:SmokinBanana::D sorry, I agree with your post by the way. Now, back to the :efpge:

Nice.:smile

chiefnut
09-16-2011, 11:51 AM
Pennington 17,823 yds 102 TD 64 int 90.1 passer rating
Palmer 22,694 154 100 86.9

i think you are right about palmer but i disagree on pennington, injuries[3] cut short his career otherwise he was a solid nfl QB

we take the best player available.......to early yet but keep your eye on Devon Still DT at PSU...6'5 305lbs was impressive even in the 'bama game loss, might make a nice replacement for jackson and may be a third round steal.

chief31
09-16-2011, 07:27 PM
I realize this is just one throw, but how many quarterbacks can throw a 45 yard strike while falling down? This guy's arm strength and accuracy are unreal:

Andrew Luck throws 50 yd pass while falling to his knees (Stanford-ASU game, Nov. 13, 2010) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMz9nwy7yYc)

An amazing throw, considering the position he was throwing from.

But, unless the batter swings and misses, then that is "ball four", as it is very clearly underthrown.

As for the topic, while I can't see this team drafting first, I would have to agree that we go ahead and take the top prospect if it were to happen, so long as it is a position that warrants such a pick.

QB does.

azchiefsfan
09-17-2011, 12:04 PM
Kellen Moore would fit our system better. We are not, and never have been a long ball team. You want to talk accuracy and poise. I haven't mentioned him until now because pretty much no one knew who he is. He looks a lot like Elway in his prime-without the whining and fit throwing.You don't need a good O line either, because he is the master of the 3 step drop. I know Luck is getting all the hype, but let's talk about wins-Luck ain't even in the discussion.

Chiefs fanatic
09-18-2011, 09:40 PM
As of now I'd peg us as the favorites in the Luck sweepstakes :banghead: