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texaschief
09-18-2011, 06:50 PM
In a continuing theme since the last week of the 2010 season, the Kansas City Chiefs continue to get blown out of games. In week 1 of the 2011 football season, the Chiefs played the Buffalo Bills. The Bills were a MUCH weaker team taken over by former Chiefs offensive coordinator, Chan Gailey who was fired by "offensive minded" coach Todd Haley before the final preseason game of 2009. 2009 was a season that saw a horrific Chiefs offense.

Gailey took a Buffalo team with less than half of the talent accumulated on the Chiefs team and built that team up enough to walk into Kansas City on opening day of 2011 and promptly hand the Chiefs and their "offensive minded" head coach their own asses on a silver platter with a score of 41-7.

The Kansas City Chiefs, determined to shake 7 straight regular and preseason losses, head over to Detroit to take on a Lions team that has been consistently as bad or worse than the Chiefs over the past 7 seasons. The Detroit staff, coincidentally, went through their own front office and coaching staff overhaul the same year Scott Pioli and Todd Haley were hired in Kansas City.

In 2008, the Chiefs selected #s 5 and 15 overall in the draft while the Lions picked #17. In 2009, the Lions took Stafford #1 overall while the Chiefs took Tyson Jackson #3 and passed on Mark Sanchez and B.J. Raji... OBVIOUS needs on offense and defense respectively. In 2010, the Lions had another high pick at #2 while the Chiefs weren't far behind at #5. In 2011, the Lions picked at #13 while the Chiefs selected at #26. So, if one were to look at the past 4 offseasons, you would see that the Chiefs had just as much of an opportunity, if not more of one to build a team capable of playing at the same level as the Lions.

However, as we witnessed on September, 18 20011, the Kansas City Chiefs have by FAR been outclassed by the front office and coaching staff of the Detroit Lions over the past 4 offseasons to this point in time. EVERY team in the league has to deal with injuries. Injuries don't account for 6 turnovers, 9 penalties for more than 100 yards, or a complete lack competitiveness for four straight in-season games. A system and organizational failure has occurred in Kansas City.

I am not in favor of another complete organizational overhaul like we saw in 2008. This failure, as Haley himself said after the week one blowout loss to Buffalo, lays squarely on the head coach and his staff. As a head coach, you can't expect to compete in the NFL when you can't get your team prepared week-in and week-out. Excluding preseason, the Kansas City Chiefs have been out-coached for four straight weeks going back to the final two games of 2010.

A new coach and perhaps, a new system need to be implemented in Kansas City... and it needs to happen as soon as possible. The Chiefs have one of, if not THE most difficult schedule in the NFL and the rest of this season can be used to install the new coach and system in order to have it up and running smoothly by the start of next season.

I've sat by quietly for nearly two seasons as fans clamor over the fool's gold that is Todd Haley and his winning season of 2010 with one of the easiest schedules in the league. Todd Haley was a horrible hire as head coach and it was only a matter of time until this kind of thing happened. He's too volatile, micro manages the offense WAY too much, and takes unnecessary risks during games. His players showed throughout the offseason that they didn't have any leadership and weren't ready for the season to begin and they showed today that they are no longer interested in competing for him.

This season started out with BLOWOUT LOSSES to the Buffalo Bills and Detroit Lions... the schedule isn't going to get any easier. The time to make a change is now... not as a rescue measure to save the season, but as a preemptive jump on system implementation and player evaluation for 2012.

jmlamerson
09-18-2011, 07:22 PM
They have no one to promote from within as HC. Let Haley and Pioli go down with the ship this season. Worry about how to fix everything after Week 17. Because there is absolutely nothing that can be done now to improve appreciably either our record or roster.

azchiefsfan
09-18-2011, 07:26 PM
I think the only way Pioli and Haley save their jobs is some sort of miraculous turnaround. With our best players out and the O and D line worthless, I can't see that happening.

OPLookn
09-18-2011, 07:28 PM
I see Pioli firing Haley at the end of this season and bringing in a new coach to get himself another two or three years. That is of course barring a miraculous turn around without some of his starters.

jmlamerson
09-18-2011, 07:30 PM
Clark Hunt isn't going to fire either guy. Especially not Pioli. They're owned way too much money, and Hunt is cheap. There's a reason we're only paying about $50M in real salaries (not cap, which is different) this season.

Kansas-City-Chiefs Salaries | Kansas-City-Chiefs Player Salaries | 2011 Kansas-City-Chiefs Salary (http://www.sportscity.com/NFL/Kansas-City-Chiefs-Salaries)

And why we cut/didn't resign guys like Waters, Smith, and Edwards. Because our owner is cheap!

Coach
09-18-2011, 07:31 PM
Sorry to break it to you guys, but Pioli isn't going anywhere. Maybe Haley, but not Pioli. No way.

texaschief
09-18-2011, 07:32 PM
Winning franchises have stability at the GM spot. I'm not in favor of giving up on Pioli. I don't believe his personnel decisions have been THAT horrible. I just believe he truly picked a horrible head coach and there's no way Haley is the coach in 2012. I don't think the Chiefs should be looking within to promote. Crennel would be a suitable interim, but I think the Chiefs need to find a real head coach.

Brian Billick would be someone I'd consider as an immediate replacement... as long as he brought an offensive coordinator along with him. These young players need someone who's been there before. They don't need to be second guessing first time head coaches. There needs to be clear direction and leadership in that locker room right now that Todd Haley is not providing. Hell, his first round draft picks are getting into fights with "leaders" in the clubhouse. That shouldn't happen.

Coach
09-18-2011, 07:34 PM
We now need Jonathan Baldwin to be the 2nd coming of JC in order to save this season.

reded
09-18-2011, 07:37 PM
We now need Jonathan Baldwin to be the 2nd coming of JC in order to save this season.


Judging by what I've seen from him thus far, it ain't gonna happen.

jmlamerson
09-18-2011, 07:45 PM
Winning franchises have stability at the GM spot. I'm not in favor of giving up on Pioli. I don't believe his personnel decisions have been THAT horrible. I just believe he truly picked a horrible head coach and there's no way Haley is the coach in 2012. I don't think the Chiefs should be looking within to promote. Crennel would be a suitable interim, but I think the Chiefs need to find a real head coach.

Brian Billick would be someone I'd consider as an immediate replacement... as long as he brought an offensive coordinator along with him. These young players need someone who's been there before. They don't need to be second guessing first time head coaches. There needs to be clear direction and leadership in that locker room right now that Todd Haley is not providing. Hell, his first round draft picks are getting into fights with "leaders" in the clubhouse. That shouldn't happen.

I can't think of much Pioli has done right. We re-signed pre-Pioli draft picks like Hali, Charles, and Flowers. I still like the Cassel/Vrabel trade for only a 2nd. Signing Jones. I like the Lilja signing, and how he signed/re-signed decent special teamers like Copper and McGraw. Getting Weis/Crennel was a masterstroke. Berry was a decent pick (though there were better ones), Asamoah and Moeaki were good ones, and Succop is the best Mr. Irrelevant of all time.

That is it. That is all I can think of. Every other single move he's made is disasterous. Trading Tony G. Cutting Waters, Smith, and Edwards. The 2009 draft. The 2011 draft. Most of the 2010 draft. Refusing to fix the OL. Refusing to get a NT. Drafting Berry at SS where a blind man knew he'd get hurt.

It's been a bad three years. Pioli needs to show something, and quick.

#58ChiefsFan
09-18-2011, 07:51 PM
The Haley "system" is becoming the problem. It worked fine right up till week 17 last year, then the recipe for defeating this system was exposed.

Haley said this week they had a great week of preperation and he felt they had gone over the changes that needed to be made. The system failed again.

In free agency Pioli passes on players that don't fit the system. Now we have no depth once the injury bug finds its way to KC. Another system fail.

I don't have near the problem with Romeo's side of the ball. If the offense wasn't so inept they can keep the score close enough to win, but get blown out in the late stages of the game when they're worn out. They should never be on the field that long and we have no depth what so ever. (System Fail)

Muir as offensive coordinator has got to be replaced immediatley. Let's put a real OC in and see what they can do with whats left of our offense.

Give that 8 weeks and then go get "22 guys off the street" to win 2 of the remaining 6 games.

The "system" is going to have to be tweaked starting now if we are going to move forward under Hunt/Pioli/Haley.

texaschief
09-18-2011, 08:35 PM
For the record, I wanted Jim Schwartz as the head coach... which probably would've meant that we kept Gunther as the DC and we'd still be running a 4-3, which we were MUCH more equipped to run when Pioli got in. We've spent 3 years rebuilding a team that had just spent 3 years rebuilding a 4-3 team.

We could have any other bust in the '09 draft, but we would have Dorsey playing where he should, wouldn't have Jackson for sure. The most devastating mistake Pioli made was trying to turn this young, talented roster that was built for a 4-3, into a 3-4. Stroke of insanity.

kckidd8870
09-18-2011, 09:55 PM
I say this,if Pioli fires Haley.Then he might save his jobFor awhile anyways.Think Hunt wont get read if anyone around here,lets start seeing some blackout and loosing money,because they cant sale anything with the Chiefs name on it.A couple more blow outs and you will see.Haleys will be out of here.Fast,Fast,Fast.It's all about money and If Haley isnt doing the right things to make them win or at least compete.He is worthless to us.Sorry Chiefs fans,it is going to be a long season,know matter what happens.Hope things are better next years.If anyone thinnnnnks we have a chance now,there crazy.I shouldnt say it but that is how I feel.I will be watching and routing for the Chiefs every sunday,but don't see how things are going to get any better.We didnt go get any good backups that could come in and help us.Being cheap Mr Hunt kinda hurts now doesnt it.We have know one to feel the shoes of Berry,Moeki,or Charles.We dont even have anyone to compete with Barry Richardson and he stinks.I could go on and on and on,but we all got are hearts ripped out for the second week in a row.So ill leave it be.Sorry Chiefs fans but its going to be a long season.Can you just say know backup and bad play calling and turnovers.

chief31
09-18-2011, 10:08 PM
I've sat by quietly for nearly two seasons as fans clamor over the fool's gold that is Todd Haley and his winning season of 2010 with one of the easiest schedules in the league. Todd Haley was a horrible hire as head coach and it was only a matter of time until this kind of thing happened. He's too volatile, micro manages the offense WAY too much, and takes unnecessary risks during games. His players showed throughout the offseason that they didn't have any leadership and weren't ready for the season to begin and they showed today that they are no longer interested in competing for him.

There have been some significant changes since last year.

And last year, while we were probably not as good as we appeared, we were better than before.

I think allowing key players to leave through free agency, along with the departure of Weiss, are the main reasons for our current situation.

Hiring Muir as OC suggests, to me, that Haley may have been the driving force behind Weiss' departure.

I certainly am not Haley's biggest fan. But he gained more leeway from me, by getting this team to a division championship, than to start shoving him into the grave after just two games into the following season.

"Fools gold", or not, it was an impressive transformation from what was here prior.

nigeriannightmare
09-18-2011, 10:36 PM
There have been some significant changes since last year.

And last year, while we were probably not as good as we appeared, we were better than before.

I think allowing key players to leave through free agency, along with the departure of Weiss, are the main reasons for our current situation.

Hiring Muir as OC suggests, to me, that Haley may have been the driving force behind Weiss' departure.

I certainly am not Haley's biggest fan. But he gained more leeway from me, by getting this team to a division championship, than to start shoving him into the grave after just two games into the following season.

"Fools gold", or not, it was an impressive transformation from what was here prior.


I really try to forget the herm era here but I don't remember those teams coming out looking like this. I mean we have 9 turnovers and 10 pts in 2 games. It's a mess for sure and as I will wear my chiefs jersey during the game, not gonna lie I will be waring my falcons tony g jersey as soon it is over. Hoping tony g gets what he deserves, a superbowl ring.

texaschief
09-18-2011, 10:44 PM
There have been some significant changes since last year.

And last year, while we were probably not as good as we appeared, we were better than before.

I think allowing key players to leave through free agency, along with the departure of Weiss, are the main reasons for our current situation.

Hiring Muir as OC suggests, to me, that Haley may have been the driving force behind Weiss' departure.

I certainly am not Haley's biggest fan. But he gained more leeway from me, by getting this team to a division championship, than to start shoving him into the grave after just two games into the following season.

"Fools gold", or not, it was an impressive transformation from what was here prior.

But there has been a clear regression from last season. I agree that the departure of Weiss is a large contributor to the downfall of this season... that's probably the biggest reason why I believe Haley SHOULD be fired. Each year that he's been in charge of the offense, we've been worse than horrible. If he's not adept enough to recognize that, he needs to be fired if for no other reason.

The Chiefs were completely healthy last week and were just as bad as they were all preseason and the last 2 games of last year... which is when Haley kicked Weiss out of the OC position. He had all off season to remedy the problem and again, failed to do so. This is just one of many reasons why Todd Haley deserves to lose his job as the Chiefs head coach.

chief31
09-18-2011, 10:46 PM
I really try to forget the herm era here but I don't remember those teams coming out looking like this. I mean we have 9 turnovers and 10 pts in 2 games. It's a mess for sure and as I will wear my chiefs jersey during the game, not gonna lie I will be waring my falcons tony g jersey as soon it is over. Hoping tony g gets what he deserves, a superbowl ring.

True.

But two games, no matter how ugly, hardly equal where he took this team in his three years.

texaschief
09-18-2011, 10:52 PM
True.

But two games, no matter how ugly, hardly equal where he took this team in his three years.

I would argue that Crennel and Weiss took this team to the playoffs more than Haley did. If Haley was responsible for taking this team to the playoffs last year, then he should have been able to prepare this team to at the VERY LEAST be competitive... that isn't the case.

chief31
09-18-2011, 11:03 PM
I would argue that Crennel and Weiss took this team to the playoffs more than Haley did. If Haley was responsible for taking this team to the playoffs last year, then he should have been able to prepare this team to at the VERY LEAST be competitive... that isn't the case.

That may be true.

And maybe all Haley did was to get those two guys to endure Haley for a year. (That would actually be my guess too.)

But it is wide speculation, and that preparedness aspect would apply to Weiss and Crennel for the end of 2010 too.

It is quite possible.

But not verifiable.

Another possibility is that Haley was largely responsible for the 2010 results, and made one monumental error starting this season.

Either way, I feel like it is totally unfair not give him the benefit of the doubt for 2010, seeing as how it is indeterminable who really had the greatest effect, and allow him a little while to try and work out the mess that is 2011.

If Herm were in the same situation here, would you have done any less?

texaschief
09-19-2011, 12:20 AM
That may be true.

And maybe all Haley did was to get those two guys to endure Haley for a year. (That would actually be my guess too.)

But it is wide speculation, and that preparedness aspect would apply to Weiss and Crennel for the end of 2010 too.

It is quite possible.

But not verifiable.

Another possibility is that Haley was largely responsible for the 2010 results, and made one monumental error starting this season.

Either way, I feel like it is totally unfair not give him the benefit of the doubt for 2010, seeing as how it is indeterminable who really had the greatest effect, and allow him a little while to try and work out the mess that is 2011.

If Herm were in the same situation here, would you have done any less?

What has Haley done that has positively affected this team? Giving him an honest evaluation, I can only think of two things that I think he brings to this team... he cut a lot of fat and got these guys in shape and has had a positive influence on Dwayne Bowe. But sitting here right now, I honestly can't think of many other positives.

The list of negatives FAR outweighs his list of positives. When that's the case and a 10-6 team starts out 0-2 with a point differential of 9-1, you HAVE to look at the coach. In 3 years, Haley has installed 3 different offensive systems with 4 different coordinators (Gailey, Haley, Weiss, Muirr)... how can you think that's anything BUT a head coaching failure?

Fastphilly
09-19-2011, 12:51 AM
How can you expect any kind of QB improvement when you have as many different OC's in as many years..Either Haley is the most difficult HC to get along with from a OC perspective, or he has no direction and is changing up his assistants looking for a spark. There is nothing good that I see out of this trend.

chief31
09-19-2011, 02:03 AM
What has Haley done that has positively affected this team? Giving him an honest evaluation, I can only think of two things that I think he brings to this team... he cut a lot of fat and got these guys in shape and has had a positive influence on Dwayne Bowe. But sitting here right now, I honestly can't think of many other positives.

The list of negatives FAR outweighs his list of positives. When that's the case and a 10-6 team starts out 0-2 with a point differential of 9-1, you HAVE to look at the coach. In 3 years, Haley has installed 3 different offensive systems with 4 different coordinators (Gailey, Haley, Weiss, Muirr)... how can you think that's anything BUT a head coaching failure?

Again, I can't really disagree, except in that, while I definitely "look at the HC" I do not have my mind made up.

This may very well be the result of one single oversight, that resulted in a failure of team concept, which could still get repaired.

While I definitely pin this terrible start to Haley, It does not yet outweigh the clear building success of 2010.

And, in my opinion, the evidence from 2010 will likely carry him through a rough 2011, provided it doesn't stay this bad.