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View Full Version : Cassel, coaching or both?



jap1
09-25-2011, 08:31 PM
Other than the last play, I thought Cassel played pretty well. In the first half, there was ****ty play calling. It seemed like they were coming from upstairs. The pass plays always had a long delayed play action, and he didn't have time to look downfield. When you design a play action that takes 2-3 sec to develop, and your line can only give you 3-5 sec of protection, then that gives your qb only 1-2 sec to turn around, find a receiver and get the ball away.

In the second half, Haley seemed to be more involved in play calling, and Cassel was able to move the ball and find players open.

Granted Cassel made a horrible decision on that last play, but otherwise, he did much better in the 2nd half.

I say fire/demote muir back to OL coach. Have Zorn or Haley call the plays.

matthewschiefs
09-25-2011, 08:38 PM
Cassel was a major part of the problem. He wasn't getting the job done in the first half and that last mistake is just something that should never happen for a guy whos not a rookie.

That being said I am more ticked at haley then anyone. This team was not well coached. There was no Hurry in this team in the 4th down 10. That came back to haunt us. Coaching is the thing that hurt us most in this one.

jap1
09-25-2011, 08:43 PM
Cassel was a major part of the problem. He wasn't getting the job done in the first half and that last mistake is just something that should never happen for a guy whos not a rookie.

That being said I am more ticked at haley then anyone. This team was not well coached. There was no Hurry in this team in the 4th down 10. That came back to haunt us. Coaching is the thing that hurt us most in this one.

Was it all Cassel though in the first half? He was 7/7. Can he be blamed that they did jones up the middle, McClain up the middle, play action pass when it's 3rd and 8 and then punt? I coach in an adult league and you never run a play action in an obvious a passing situation. The d isn't going to bite on it and it just takes time away from the qb to look downfield.

When we did traditional drop backs and Cassel had time, Cassel made some great passes downfield.

matthewschiefs
09-25-2011, 08:56 PM
Was it all Cassel though in the first half? He was 7/7. Can he be blamed that they did jones up the middle, McClain up the middle, play action pass when it's 3rd and 8 and then punt? I coach in an adult league and you never run a play action in an obvious a passing situation. The d isn't going to bite on it and it just takes time away from the qb to look downfield.

When we did traditional drop backs and Cassel had time, Cassel made some great passes downfield.

I think Cassel is part of it. I mean it's not like our offense just had one bad half. It's been pretty bad all year. I am not just a Cassel hater. I defended him all last year. Hell I even defended Brodie after the Charger game last season. But this offense is not getting the job done. Sure they put up points in the 2nd half. But that was also after one of the Chargers defenders went. down. Not saying that this is all Cassels fault or even that he's that bad. But For this team I just think we need to see if our backups can do the job better. Through 2 and a half games this season our offense put up 10 points thats a JOKE. We need a spark and Cassel has not been able to give it to us.

jap1
09-25-2011, 09:01 PM
I think Cassel is part of it. I mean it's not like our offense just had one bad half. It's been pretty bad all year. I am not just a Cassel hater. I defended him all last year. Hell I even defended Brodie after the Charger game last season. But this offense is not getting the job done. Sure they put up points in the 2nd half. But that was also after one of the Chargers defenders went. down. Not saying that this is all Cassels fault or even that he's that bad. But For this team I just think we need to see if our backups can do the job better. Through 2 and a half games this season our offense put up 10 points thats a JOKE. We need a spark and Cassel has not been able to give it to us.

I agree we need a spark, and that our offense was anemic. But we showed signs of life in the second half. I think it is more coaching than Cassel. I think a coaching change can give us that spark. Additionally, I don't at all think Palko or Stanzi will be able to do anything at all. Cassel isn't Joe Montana, but he is a lot better than our other options.

matthewschiefs
09-25-2011, 09:28 PM
I agree that it's more coaching then Cassel And wouldn't be so upset with Cassel if he was not turning the ball over so much this season. That's just something that NO Qb can do. Right now Cassel is number 2 on my s**t list right behind Haley.

jap1
09-25-2011, 09:38 PM
I agree that it's more coaching then Cassel And wouldn't be so upset with Cassel if he was not turning the ball over so much this season. That's just something that NO Qb can do. Right now Cassel is number 2 on my s**t list right behind Haley.

Cassel has turned the ball over too much (tied with Rivers mccown and newton for most picks). But two picks last week were passes that went straight through the hands of 2 WRs and into the defenders hands. Can't really blame him for those. The problem is throwing it into the hands of Weddle means he is panicking and not making an adjustment when he is pressured.

matthewschiefs
09-25-2011, 09:40 PM
Cassel has turned the ball over too much (tied with Rivers mccown and newton for most picks). But two picks last week were passes that went straight through the hands of 2 WRs and into the defenders hands. Can't really blame him for those. The problem is throwing it into the hands of Weddle means he is panicking and not making an adjustment when he is pressured.


I do put one of those picks last week on Cassel. He overthrew Urban on one of those. Could Urban have made the catch yes. But the Qb has to make a better throw there. The 1st one. That was 100% on Bowe. Cassel did his job on that one.

The one today just CAN'T happen. That's something you will see from a rookie. Cassel is not a rookie and shouldn't make that mistake.

OTR Chiefs fan
09-25-2011, 11:50 PM
Cassel has turned the ball over too much (tied with Rivers mccown and newton for most picks). But two picks last week were passes that went straight through the hands of 2 WRs and into the defenders hands. Can't really blame him for those. The problem is throwing it into the hands of Weddle means he is panicking and not making an adjustment when he is pressured.

This is what starting to concern me about Cassell. I have yet to see him make a clutch play with the game on the line. Does he have it in him? Is the pressure too much for him? :chiefs:

KCraised
09-25-2011, 11:58 PM
To answer your last question? Yes

Eydugstr
09-26-2011, 12:57 AM
I agree we need a spark, and that our offense was anemic. But we showed signs of life in the second half. I think it is more coaching than Cassel. I think a coaching change can give us that spark. Additionally, I don't at all think Palko or Stanzi will be able to do anything at all. Cassel isn't Joe Montana, but he is a lot better than our other options.

Agreed. Well said.

Cassel isn't the problem. In fact, if you look at the picture, he might be one of the few things that could be part of a solution. He proved last year he could improve a lot if under the right coaching (Charlie Weis). Until this year, he's never had a qb coach that played the position. How many offensive cooridinators has he gone through during his time in KC ?!? Who in their right mind would invest 60 million in someone and NOT surround him with a decent position coach, a decent offensive line, or contend with a revolving door of OC's that do just fine on other teams?

My guess is that if you put Palko or Stanzi, both of which have shown flashes of potential, into the same situation...You'd see the same result, possibly even worse. The only advantage I see to either QB over Cassel is the ability to scramble. But that's it. And there's no guarantee that they wouldn't scramble themselves out of a bad situation only to throw an INT.

:chiefs:

AussieChiefsFan
09-26-2011, 04:21 AM
Well Cassel played well for part of the time but in the end, he made some pretty incredible mistakes.

chief31
09-26-2011, 03:37 PM
Cassel was a major part of the problem. He wasn't getting the job done in the first half and that last mistake is just something that should never happen for a guy whos not a rookie.

And yet it happens to all of them.

I have seen Montana, Brady, Manning, Elway, you name 'em, I have seen each of them do stupid things just like that, with the game on the line.

"It should never happen" and yet it always finds a way to.

Cassel is the guy who put us in a position to beat The Chargers in San Diego.

How many rushing TDs does this team have?

I mean, when your entire offense is based upon a great running game and a conservative, efficient passing game, should the running game do anything?

The passing game has been all we really have, and yet the QB is the guy being sacrificed?

bbacker51
09-26-2011, 03:42 PM
on the bright side, the defense did finally show signs of life.................we do need to keep into perspective that San Diego may not be the team that they are hyped to be. They are probably the worst team we have played so far.

azchiefsfan
09-26-2011, 03:47 PM
I whole-heartedly agree, bb. The defense was up against a damn fine offense that lit up NE and pretty much held their own. And on offense, as bad as it was, I think we will see the passing game get better from here on. The line, while porous did show some strength and rigidity at times. I really believe, though another loss, we will see week 3 as the beginning of better things. And with the schedule we are up against, we will need some momentum.

honda522
09-26-2011, 04:23 PM
QB Rating: 102.1
Completion: 17 of 24

Thats pretty good compared to the last 2 games.

I say its a combo of both.

matthewschiefs
09-26-2011, 05:00 PM
And yet it happens to all of them.

I have seen Montana, Brady, Manning, Elway, you name 'em, I have seen each of them do stupid things just like that, with the game on the line.

"It should never happen" and yet it always finds a way to.

Cassel is the guy who put us in a position to beat The Chargers in San Diego.

How many rushing TDs does this team have?

I mean, when your entire offense is based upon a great running game and a conservative, efficient passing game, should the running game do anything?

The passing game has been all we really have, and yet the QB is the guy being sacrificed?



I understand what your saying. I get it. I know that mistakes are made by every Qb in the NFL. But the good ones do things that make there mistakes not stand out. Something that Cassel has not yet done this season. I know that it's not all Cassels fault. I am not saying that it is all Cassel. It's everyone from cassels to Haleys fault that the offense is not doing the job. I am not even saying that Cassel is not a good qb. I am just saying that if the offense doesn't get it together we need to see if we have someone that is better for THIS current team.

drstandley31
09-27-2011, 01:09 AM
This year I've seen the worst coached team since.... well most of Herm Edwards run. I thought Haley had this team moving in the right direction last year. But the wheels fell off. It's his inability to get along with the other coaches. He's not a leader. It's his way or get out. He's just not good enough to have it "his" way. This team is not ready to play professional football. And thanks to that we lost some really good players for the season. The only hope is that we are so bad that we end up with a new QB and coach that knows what the heck he's doing.

chief31
09-27-2011, 03:55 PM
I understand what your saying. I get it. I know that mistakes are made by every Qb in the NFL. But the good ones do things that make there mistakes not stand out. Something that Cassel has not yet done this season. I know that it's not all Cassels fault. I am not saying that it is all Cassel. It's everyone from cassels to Haleys fault that the offense is not doing the job. I am not even saying that Cassel is not a good qb. I am just saying that if the offense doesn't get it together we need to see if we have someone that is better for THIS current team.


It all boils down to how much time you give these guys to get it back on track.


But the wheels fell off.

Yep. It happens.

For me, taking a 4-12 football team to 10-6 and a division crown (easy schedule, or not) means that it will take more than a few games to convince me that they need to be replaced.

Just like it took more than a few games for this team to convince me that they were seriously onto something last season, I am not easy to "convince".

jmlamerson
09-27-2011, 09:32 PM
Other than the last play, I thought Cassel played pretty well. In the first half, there was ****ty play calling. It seemed like they were coming from upstairs. The pass plays always had a long delayed play action, and he didn't have time to look downfield. When you design a play action that takes 2-3 sec to develop, and your line can only give you 3-5 sec of protection, then that gives your qb only 1-2 sec to turn around, find a receiver and get the ball away.

In the second half, Haley seemed to be more involved in play calling, and Cassel was able to move the ball and find players open.

Granted Cassel made a horrible decision on that last play, but otherwise, he did much better in the 2nd half.

I say fire/demote muir back to OL coach. Have Zorn or Haley call the plays.

Cassel did terrible in the first half, mostly good in the 2nd, and then collapsed at the end. It would be a B grade if not for the last throw.

And Haley is calling the plays. You can see him on the sideline. That's part of the problem.