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drstandley31
09-27-2011, 01:26 AM
If that is true, as is reported. Doesn't that say that this ownership is ok with being average? We won 10 last year, but we all know there were problems that needed addressed. But yet we didn't. Why is that? I've been watching the Cincinnati Bungles do this for 20 years. Just be good enough to stay close. Have a good year or two, and the sheepole will keep coming in to buy tickets, beer and merchandise. But not really dedicated to winning. Are we dedicated to winning? We used to be, but are we still? Mr. Hunt, are you really interesting in winning?

doobs_05
09-27-2011, 02:04 AM
Because teams want to build within. They do not want to bring guys in. It's what GB did. TB is doing the same thing (best friend is a TB fan), they don't spend because they want to save it for bringing up players.

Fastphilly
09-27-2011, 04:09 AM
Because teams want to build within. They do not want to bring guys in. It's what GB did. TB is doing the same thing (best friend is a TB fan), they don't spend because they want to save it for bringing up players.

I hear what you are saying, I'd add Pittsburg into that group also, I can't remember the last time they picked up a big name free agent..To go that route you must have extremely good talent evaluaters and top notch coaching to mold these young players..The jury is still out if the Chiefs have those capable folks to get this done. Still, getting a missing piece through free agency that would get you over the hump it sure does'nt hurt.

doobs_05
09-27-2011, 05:47 AM
I hear what you are saying, I'd add Pittsburg into that group also, I can't remember the last time they picked up a big name free agent..To go that route you must have extremely good talent evaluaters and top notch coaching to mold these young players..The jury is still out if the Chiefs have those capable folks to get this done. Still, getting a missing piece through free agency that would get you over the hump it sure does'nt hurt.

I was hoping we try to get Nnamdi, but i think every team did

drstandley31
09-27-2011, 08:56 AM
Because teams want to build within. They do not want to bring guys in. It's what GB did. TB is doing the same thing (best friend is a TB fan), they don't spend because they want to save it for bringing up players.
I hear what you're saying, but exactly how long do you give that practice? We've been building within for what, 6 years now. No, you need to do a little more than just work the draft. I'm not saying to go after super stars, but you need to identify good young talent around the league and find ways to attract it.

azchiefsfan
09-27-2011, 09:18 AM
With KC being a small market team, that 30 mil might as well be 30 billion $. Could Hunt afford to cap out spending? I don't know, but in the merchandising world, we are about as small potatoes as it gets in the NFL. And the merchandising is where the teams make their money to be able to afford to pay more. Green Bay has been a miracle-maker in being able to put together a really good team while spending very little. I think it's been Hunt/Pioli's goal here also, but it takes a very special GM and owner to pull it off.

DMN
09-27-2011, 11:30 AM
2011-2012 are the last 2 years before the "99% cap spending clause" in the new CBA takes effect. No

Now I am not sure what that exactly means to us. Unfortunately, and don't quote me on this, there is part that states that the 99% has to be spent league wide and as a whole. Meaning a loophole in the actual salary cap.

Theoretically in 2013 KC could spend 80% of the cap and to meet the CBA rules it would allow a team like Dallas could spend 120% of the cap.

So we could find ourselves potentially even further apart from the top teams cap wise.

Again this is just what I took from the articles I read. But it makes sense. Small market teams just don't make the money. Who knows what the cap will be in 2018? but obviously a good bit higher. Hunt may simply not be able to afford 99% of that cap.

Canada
09-27-2011, 11:33 AM
If spending money was all it took to win then Im sure most teams would do just that. I mean Philly bought a dream team and look how well that is working out so far.

DMN
09-27-2011, 12:11 PM
If spending money was all it took to win then Im sure most teams would do just that. I mean Philly bought a dream team and look how well that is working out so far.

There is plenty of logic in that school of thought. And not that I disagree with it I think the point is that teams like Philly are just not spending it is the right way. But at least they are trying. Showing that they are going after proven top tier talent.

But you are correct the final results are what matters and they are not making it happen.

Anytime you have results like ours on the field and cap room like ours it is an easy target. I personally would rather try and be wrong than not try at all. Granite Hunts pocket would definitely disagree with me... :smile

matthewschiefs
09-27-2011, 12:49 PM
Pioli is doing the same thing that he did with the Pats. They did not build by going out getting high price tallent. They made there team through the draft and once they got to the point they were winning superbowls they started really going out to sign some big name high price talent. They picked and chose who they wanted in the free agent market. It went faster with the pats because they had more talent then we did when they started.

TopekaRoy
09-27-2011, 04:45 PM
I've been hearing that the Chiefs have between 30 and 35 million in cap space since the preseason started. That was before we signed Tamba Hali for $12 million per year and before we signed Brandon Flowers to $10 million per year. That's $22 million right there. Does anyone have a current accurate figure for total salary? I tried to google it, but most of the figures are out of date. According to TraditionSportsOnLine.com (http://forums.traditionsportsonline.com/threads/kansas-city-chiefs-2011-team-management.62356/) the Current Salary cap space is only $12,610,000, based on a total salary of $107,390,000. That's a far cry from $30 million.

I think many of you don't really understand Cap space and think just because we have X amount of dollars we shold spend it. Here are some factors you may not be considering.

1) There are several cap charges that aren’t reflected in that number. These include players who reach an injury settlement, players who file injury grievances, vested veterans who are terminated and entitled to termination pay, and incentives that a club anticipates a player will earn even though the NFL has deemed the incentive “unlikely to be earned” based on the previous season. All are hidden costs that clubs have to account for in the salary cap, making it impossible to determine an exact number.

2) Teams must also keep a reserve to sign replacements should a player be placed on injured reserve or be released or traded. Charles, Berry and Moeaki all still get paid this year. If the Chiefs sign a player or make a lopsided trade to get fill-in players for any of these guys, they will get paid from this years cap space. If we sign a replacement kicker for Ryan Succop we have to pay both of them (even though kickers don't get paid much.)

3) A portion of cap space must be reserved to sign players to extensions before they become free agents. That's what we did with Hali and Flowers this year.

4)Getting into a bidding war just becuase you have the money can cripple your team if you overpay for a player and he underperforms. He becomes untradeable and it ties up money the team can use to fill other needs.

5) FAs are not required to sign with the higest bidder. Many players will take less money to sign with a team in a large market (because they can more than make up the loss in endorsements), sign with a team that they think is more likely to win a Super Bowl, or sign with a team that fits their skillset, so they can perform better and increase their future value.

Just because the Chiefs don't sign a big name FA doesn't necessarily mean they weren't willing to pay for him. That player may not have wanted to play for the Chiefs.

6) Rollover! This is big. Teams that stay under the salary cap this year can roll that money over to use (next year only) to exceed the cap. This will put the Chiefs in a postion to pay more than for a player than teams who are right at the cap.

Also keep in mind that there is a difference between Salary cap and budget. Just because the Chiefs are allowed to spend X number of dollars doesn't mean they have X number of dollars to spend. This is a big problem with smaller market teams who don't make nearly as much money in the areas that are not revenue shared (like parking, concessions, some merchandising, etc.) Remember the Chiefs exist to make a profit for the owner. Entertaining the fans is only a means to that end.

In 2 years the Chiefs will be forced to spend 99% of the Salay cap. If they don't the difference will go directly to the NFLPA and redistributed among the players. So next year will be the year to go after the big names, becuase it will be a level playing field after that. The Rollover from this year to next could put the chiefs in a great position to land the big names.

chief31
09-27-2011, 05:30 PM
Great post Topeka!

C Louie
09-27-2011, 05:40 PM
Pioli is doing the same thing that he did with the Pats. They did not build by going out getting high price tallent. They made there team through the draft and once they got to the point they were winning superbowls they started really going out to sign some big name high price talent. They picked and chose who they wanted in the free agent market. It went faster with the pats because they had more talent then we did when they started.
Yeah but the difference is they had Tom Brady. I'm not saying go out and sell the farm but at least make an effort to fill some holes.

Canada
09-27-2011, 07:12 PM
We didnt get any impact FA the past 3 years and look how that is working out this year3 years, yet you waited until this season to come here and complain about who we did pick up.


It also helps when you try to build a team through the draft is to ACTUALLY HAVE GOOD DRAFT PICKS Pioli.No w we have no had any good draft picks!! :lol: Berry, Moeaki, McCluster just off the top of my head. I have read enough of your posts to know that no matter what happens you will disagree with it. Im not sure why you hate every single thing the Chiefs do, I just see that you do.

chief31
09-27-2011, 07:19 PM
in 3 years you can name 3 pretty good draft picks....

King carl did better than that

That's how it works when players have four or five years to make their cases, as opposed to judging a draft class in three games.

jmlamerson
09-27-2011, 09:22 PM
Pioli is doing the same thing that he did with the Pats. They did not build by going out getting high price tallent. They made there team through the draft and once they got to the point they were winning superbowls they started really going out to sign some big name high price talent. They picked and chose who they wanted in the free agent market. It went faster with the pats because they had more talent then we did when they started.

That's not exactly right. 11 of the 22 Pats in the 2001 SB were free agents. Pats built by going after cheap FAs and drafting well. Look at the past ten champs:

2001 - Pats build by signing cheap FAs and draft
2002 - Bucs sign several key vets (Johnsons, Rice) to add to Dungy's defensive stalwarts
2003 - Pats add guys like Rodney Harrison and keep drafting well
2004 - Pats add guys like Dillon and keep drafting well
2005 - Steelers are almost all homegrown
2006 - Colts are almost all homegrown
2007 - Giants are heavily free agent built
2008 - Steelers are almost all homegrown
2009 - Saints are heavily free agent built
2010 - Packers are almost all homegrown

There's no one way to build a champion for either small amrket or big market teams. You can do it by drafting, by FA, or by both.

That said, none of the ten teams above were $30M under the cap. Most were at or near the cap. Our owner is just being cheap. There was no reason to cut Waters, Edwards, or Smith this offseason except for cheapness.

kckidd8870
09-28-2011, 12:49 AM
I hurd on 810 sports radio,They though Clark Hunt is being so cheap,because he put in that 125mill. to biuld the stadium and now trying to recoop the money ,that he put into it.Makes alot of since.

Canada
09-28-2011, 04:28 PM
in 3 years you can name 3 pretty good draft picks....

King carl did better than that.


I hate most of what they have done yes. Give Matt cassel at that time more money than everyone except peyton manning (still makes more than rodgers rivers etc..) Draft Tyson jackson, give flowers top 5 cb money, trade tony g, btw we did give our second round pick for cassel, ABSOLUTELY NO FA TALENT OR PURSUIT, Drafting baldwin with the possibility of going 0-16.

Yes I have hated what they have doneDo I have to hold your hand and walk you through all our good draft picks. My point is that it would not matter what was done, you would complain about it. Like tony G leaving...he wanted to go...yet you blame management. Its ridiculous, if we hadnt drafted Baldwin Im sure you would be on here complaining about how we didnt get a WR. you just second guess every decision that is made and then when we have a bad season, you show up telling everyone how right you are.

Good Draft Picks
Eric Berry
Dexter McCluster
Jon Asamoa
Tony Moeaki
Kendrick Lewis
Justin Houston
Rodney Hudson


Im sure you dont like them, but most of them are starting right now.

jmlamerson
09-28-2011, 06:18 PM
I hurd on 810 sports radio,They though Clark Hunt is being so cheap,because he put in that 125mill. to biuld the stadium and now trying to recoop the money ,that he put into it.Makes alot of since.

That may be true, but it's still inexcusible. There isn't a whole lot of difference between that and deliberately tanking.