PDA

View Full Version : Let's give Cassel a chance before we show him the door



figcrostic
09-28-2011, 08:31 PM
First off we have not had a good O-line since Willie Roaf retired, do you guys remember when Tyler Thigpen was playing here as our starting qb over 3 years ago and he had to run for his life to make a pass, guess what not much has changed. I have been saying for the last 4 years we need to deal with our OL, Cassel is better then Thigpen but if he has no time to throw the ball what do you expect to happen. Secondly can we get a decent OC I mean really who the hell is calling the plays, and on top of that Cassel has had what a couple months to learn and get on the same page with yet another OC. It's rediculous I admit he's no Tom Brady, and I admit he is overpaid, but I don't feel he's had a fair evaluation. What we need to do is drop some serious cash on our line and quit being cheap, quality OL don't come from the dollar store aka the 5th and 6th round. Instead of wasting a number 1 pick on safeties that break all the time or on WR who break their thumbs. We need a LT (Albert a is a guard playing LT) or at least a RT. If your going to put a lot of money on the line why not put it on something that is possibly one of the most important positions on the offense. A good LT turns a decent qb into a good one. If Cassel had Trents OL I think we might very well be 3-0.

Connie Jo
09-28-2011, 08:44 PM
First off we have not had a good O-line since Willie Roaf retired, do you guys remember when Tyler Thigpen was playing here as our starting qb over 3 years ago and he had to run for his life to make a pass, guess what not much has changed. I have been saying for the last 4 years we need to deal with our OL, Cassel is better then Thigpen but if he has no time to throw the ball what do you expect to happen. Secondly can we get a decent OC I mean really who the hell is calling the plays, and on top of that Cassel has had what a couple months to learn and get on the same page with yet another OC. It's rediculous I admit he's no Tom Brady, and I admit he is overpaid, but I don't feel he's had a fair evaluation. What we need to do is drop some serious cash on our line and quit being cheap, quality OL don't come from the dollar store aka the 5th and 6th round. Instead of wasting a number 1 pick on safeties that break all the time or on WR who break their thumbs. We need a LT (Albert a is a guard playing LT) or at least a RT. If your going to put a lot of money on the line why not put it on something that is possibly one of the most important positions on the offense. A good LT turns a decent qb into a good one. If Cassel had Trents OL I think we might very well be 3-0.


I agree with keeping Cassel, also for many of the reasons you gave. I'm in support of drafting Berry, however, for many justified reasons. From a GM's point of view...Berry made complete sense with drafting as being beneficial to the Chiefs franchise in all aspects considered.

I'm reserving judgement on whether or not Baldwin was a worthy draft pick, until I witness what he will or will not bring positively to our passing game. We needed to improve our passing game.

We don't know what Pioli has in his mind. It's possible he's reserving cap money for a justified reason, including improving the o-line. He knows things within the NFL & NCAA we don't. He could have his eye on particular players he wants and feels are worthy of waiting for before dropping money on those he feels are less worthy. Time will tell, and Pioli really hasn't been given the time fairly to put together the team he wants. The lockout threw a major hurdle into plans for this year.

chief31
09-28-2011, 09:57 PM
First off we have not had a good O-line since Willie Roaf retired, do you guys remember when Tyler Thigpen was playing here as our starting qb over 3 years ago and he had to run for his life to make a pass, guess what not much has changed. I have been saying for the last 4 years we need to deal with our OL, Cassel is better then Thigpen but if he has no time to throw the ball what do you expect to happen. Secondly can we get a decent OC I mean really who the hell is calling the plays, and on top of that Cassel has had what a couple months to learn and get on the same page with yet another OC. It's rediculous I admit he's no Tom Brady, and I admit he is overpaid, but I don't feel he's had a fair evaluation. What we need to do is drop some serious cash on our line and quit being cheap, quality OL don't come from the dollar store aka the 5th and 6th round. Instead of wasting a number 1 pick on safeties that break all the time or on WR who break their thumbs. We need a LT (Albert a is a guard playing LT) or at least a RT. If your going to put a lot of money on the line why not put it on something that is possibly one of the most important positions on the offense. A good LT turns a decent qb into a good one. If Cassel had Trents OL I think we might very well be 3-0.

I have gained so much respect for you of late.

Words like this coming from a guy who once started threads like these....

Cassel and the Chiefs owe Jamaal some money - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12328)

Give Brodie a chance - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11805)

Cassel isn't the next Trent Green - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11758)

Should we start Brodie? - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11678)

Am I still wrong for not liking Cassel? - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11661)

Can we go ahead and draft a solid 2nd round QB - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11721)

Still not impressed by Cassel - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11429)

...to see Cassel prove him wrong, then struggle this season, and not jump directly on the "I HATE MATT CASSEL" bandwagon, shows some serious class.

Not to mention how you have grown as a member of the crowd.

I remember how you would get into full-on hate-fests with people around here.

:lol:

Now, look at you.

Acting all respectful to others, and grown-up like. :D

And the fact is, before you ever showed up back then, I may well have been the most "anti-Cassel" member on here.

My how things have changed.

And I couldn't agree with you more here.

After how Matt Cassel was able to do so much, even with such a nasty situation, last season, I just don't get how so many are so willing to throw it all away so quickly.

Maybe he will never play so well again. With our offensive scheme, and O-line, it wouldn't be too shocking.

But, since he has managed to do so much in his first three seasons, I just can't fathom giving up on him this quickly.

Rep to you.

Chiefs fanatic
09-28-2011, 10:02 PM
If Cassel can accomplish something this year with what he has to work with he definitely deserves another year. If he struggles and we get a high draft pick though I think we should take a QB.

jmlamerson
09-28-2011, 10:07 PM
First off we have not had a good O-line since Willie Roaf retired, do you guys remember when Tyler Thigpen was playing here as our starting qb over 3 years ago and he had to run for his life to make a pass, guess what not much has changed. I have been saying for the last 4 years we need to deal with our OL, Cassel is better then Thigpen but if he has no time to throw the ball what do you expect to happen. Secondly can we get a decent OC I mean really who the hell is calling the plays, and on top of that Cassel has had what a couple months to learn and get on the same page with yet another OC. It's rediculous I admit he's no Tom Brady, and I admit he is overpaid, but I don't feel he's had a fair evaluation. What we need to do is drop some serious cash on our line and quit being cheap, quality OL don't come from the dollar store aka the 5th and 6th round. Instead of wasting a number 1 pick on safeties that break all the time or on WR who break their thumbs. We need a LT (Albert a is a guard playing LT) or at least a RT. If your going to put a lot of money on the line why not put it on something that is possibly one of the most important positions on the offense. A good LT turns a decent qb into a good one. If Cassel had Trents OL I think we might very well be 3-0.

Yeah, Cassel and Muir are the fall guys right now, but this all goes to Pioli's failure to find legit players. Our entire 2009 draft looks right now like a big waste, and Haley's stupidities in getting Moeaki and Berry injured is casting doubt on the 2010 one. Not to mention that ditching guys like Smith, Waters, Edwards, Thigpen, Tony G., and even Pollard/Page looks incredibly bad right now.

Look at the actual salaries (not salary *cap* or bonuses) for our players this year: Kansas City Chiefs Player Contracts, Salaries, & Transactions (http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/kansas-city-chiefs/)

We're being cheap and it's killing the team this season.

okikcfan
09-28-2011, 10:48 PM
First off we have not had a good O-line since Willie Roaf retired, do you guys remember when Tyler Thigpen was playing here as our starting qb over 3 years ago and he had to run for his life to make a pass, guess what not much has changed. I have been saying for the last 4 years we need to deal with our OL, Cassel is better then Thigpen but if he has no time to throw the ball what do you expect to happen. Secondly can we get a decent OC I mean really who the hell is calling the plays, and on top of that Cassel has had what a couple months to learn and get on the same page with yet another OC. It's rediculous I admit he's no Tom Brady, and I admit he is overpaid, but I don't feel he's had a fair evaluation. What we need to do is drop some serious cash on our line and quit being cheap, quality OL don't come from the dollar store aka the 5th and 6th round. Instead of wasting a number 1 pick on safeties that break all the time or on WR who break their thumbs. We need a LT (Albert a is a guard playing LT) or at least a RT. If your going to put a lot of money on the line why not put it on something that is possibly one of the most important positions on the offense. A good LT turns a decent qb into a good one. If Cassel had Trents OL I think we might very well be 3-0.


I agree with you on a number of things, also I feel a big problem with Cassel right now is all the OC's. Three years and three OC's. That in itself can not be an easy thing to cope with. It's my opinion thay Mr Haley himself needs to grow up. We had a good thing with Charlie Wiess and it appears Mr Haley ran him off or so it is rumored, and I feel there is a good chance we will have yet another in 2012. The O line has to be at the top of the list. and dont expect to see Andrew Luck even if we do go 0-16, I am not a big Cassel fan but he is our QB and we will have to live with it. I have a Great deal of respect for the man and I'll just leave it at that...:chiefs:

jmlamerson
09-28-2011, 10:52 PM
Three years and three OC's.

Three years and *four* OCs - Gailey (fired after Cassel first offseason with the team), Haley, Weis, and Muir.

Gailey and Weis are a combined 7-0 with their respective teams this year, for what it's worth.

Chiefster
09-28-2011, 11:55 PM
First off we have not had a good O-line since Willie Roaf retired, do you guys remember when Tyler Thigpen was playing here as our starting qb over 3 years ago and he had to run for his life to make a pass, guess what not much has changed. I have been saying for the last 4 years we need to deal with our OL, Cassel is better then Thigpen but if he has no time to throw the ball what do you expect to happen. Secondly can we get a decent OC I mean really who the hell is calling the plays, and on top of that Cassel has had what a couple months to learn and get on the same page with yet another OC. It's rediculous I admit he's no Tom Brady, and I admit he is overpaid, but I don't feel he's had a fair evaluation. What we need to do is drop some serious cash on our line and quit being cheap, quality OL don't come from the dollar store aka the 5th and 6th round. Instead of wasting a number 1 pick on safeties that break all the time or on WR who break their thumbs. We need a LT (Albert a is a guard playing LT) or at least a RT. If your going to put a lot of money on the line why not put it on something that is possibly one of the most important positions on the offense. A good LT turns a decent qb into a good one. If Cassel had Trents OL I think we might very well be 3-0.


REP! :smile

Chiefster
09-28-2011, 11:58 PM
My only knock on Cassel is the amount of time he holds onto the ball, but then again the o-line, also, has to pass block for longer then two seconds and WR's have to get open.

2010chiefs
09-29-2011, 01:06 AM
Nope. I think he needs to go. Everyone else sees it including outsiders who could care less about the Chiefs. Why don't you fans. I love the Chiefs and will believe what I see not read. A crappy NFL Quarterback!

jmlamerson
09-29-2011, 01:38 AM
Nope. I think he needs to go. Everyone else sees it including outsiders who could care less about the Chiefs. Why don't you fans. I love the Chiefs and will believe what I see not read. A crappy NFL Quarterback!

Eh, we've seen Cassel have good seasons. What were seeing now is what happens when an average QB combines with a bad OL, only one real receiver, four OCs in three years, and a fruitloop head coach.

People see these things in such black and white. Cassel isn't great and he isn't terrible. He's in the middle, on the level of journeymen like Orton, Kolb, Campbell, Grossman, and Fitzpatrick. We can win *with* him, but we probably won't win *because* of him.

doobs_05
09-29-2011, 02:22 AM
If kansas city has the first pick they take Luck, if not were stuck with cassel for awhile

chief31
09-29-2011, 11:34 AM
Nope. I think he needs to go. Everyone else sees it including outsiders who could care less about the Chiefs. Why don't you fans. I love the Chiefs and will believe what I see not read. A crappy NFL Quarterback!

Outsiders who don't really pay any attention to The Chiefs, and you, feel like it's just that Cassel is a bad QB?

Pretty convincing stuff right there.

azchiefsfan
09-29-2011, 12:17 PM
Eh, we've seen Cassel have good seasons. What were seeing now is what happens when an average QB combines with a bad OL, only one real receiver, four OCs in three years, and a fruitloop head coach.

People see these things in such black and white. Cassel isn't great and he isn't terrible. He's in the middle, on the level of journeymen like Orton, Kolb, Campbell, Grossman, and Fitzpatrick. We can win *with* him, but we probably won't win *because* of him.

Uh, he's looked like a superstar when he's had just a bit of protection-think NE and last year here. So, uh, until he starts sucking when he's got a good team around him, I think this whole "average QB" thing is misguided. Tom Brady didn't have half the pressure(literally) and 4 quality receivers and threw 4 interceptions. But that doesn't phase you doubters and haters? Cassel is getting the spit knocked out of him and receivers dropping balls, but you focus on 1 or 2 overthrows. I'm done trying to enlighten those who wish to remain blind. Yeah, we're stuck with lamo Cassel, but Luck would come in and take this same team to the Super Bowl! See how stupid that logic is now? Didn't think so.

jmlamerson
09-29-2011, 12:33 PM
Uh, he's looked like a superstar when he's had just a bit of protection-think NE and last year here. So, uh, until he starts sucking when he's got a good team around him, I think this whole "average QB" thing is misguided. Tom Brady didn't have half the pressure(literally) and 4 quality receivers and threw 4 interceptions. But that doesn't phase you doubters and haters? Cassel is getting the spit knocked out of him and receivers dropping balls, but you focus on 1 or 2 overthrows. I'm done trying to enlighten those who wish to remain blind. Yeah, we're stuck with lamo Cassel, but Luck would come in and take this same team to the Super Bowl! See how stupid that logic is now? Didn't think so.

Cassel did not look like a superstar with either the Pats or the Chiefs last year. He looked . . . good. Not great, good. We were the 30th ranked passing offense last year, supported by the number one run game. Which, again, doesn't mean Cassel didn't do exactly what he was asked to do. Weis maximized his strengths (accuracy, efficiency, leadership) and minimized his weaknesses (lack of arm strength and athleticisim).

Brady had a bad game (for him) last game. A quarterback's worth isn't based on one bad or good game.

Cassel's supporting cast, outside of Bowe and maybe Asamoah, is terrible. He is unable to make chicken salad out of the chicken **** we call offensive line and skill players. And part of the reason for his terrible play this year is because of this fact. That doesn't mean he isn't playing terribly, or that someone else couldn't do better. Also, one of the reasons his receivers are dropping balls is because Cassel is leading them right into traffic. Again, he has no choice as his line isn't giving him enough time to throw.

I have no idea whether we'd eventually win a SB with Luck. I just know we'll have a better shot than if we stick with Cassel. For what it's worth, we won't finish bad enough to get Luck. The Colts or Seahawks will be fighting for that honor. Our choice will be Barkley or Moore versus Kalil.

Chiefster
09-29-2011, 12:41 PM
Nope. I think he needs to go. Everyone else sees it including outsiders who could care less about the Chiefs. Why don't you fans. I love the Chiefs and will believe what I see not read. A crappy NFL Quarterback!

We obviously see something more then what you do. Greens first couple of years were miserable which earned him the nick name "trINT". Cassel's had to work with three different OC's in as many years. I'm still holding out a glimmer of hope that he will be able to lead this team in the right direction.

jmlamerson
09-29-2011, 12:53 PM
We obviously see something more then what you do. Greens first couple of years were miserable which earned him the nick name "trINT". Cassel's had to work with three different OC's in as many years. I'm still holding out a glimmer of hope that he will be able to lead this team in the right direction.

*Four* OCs in three years, of you count haley in the 2009 regular season.

Chiefster
09-29-2011, 12:56 PM
*Four* OCs in three years, of you count haley in the 2009 regular season.

I stand corrected.

chief31
09-29-2011, 01:04 PM
Cassel did not look like a superstar with either the Pats or the Chiefs last year. He looked . . . good. Not great, good.


Man... Any other first time starter does what he did in 2008 and the entire league is amazed at this guy's superstar abilioty.

Not saying you, in particular. But the general consencus would be of "Superstar".

I think the "Career-backup" label seriously put Cassel behind the eight ball in the eyes of most.

Because, if that rookie who was touted as a clearly budding superstar, manages to have a year like Cassel's 2010, then most would be convinced.

Again though, I think the "career backup" label, coupled with Cassel's age, makes the masses resistent to the usual flows of opinion.

azchiefsfan
09-29-2011, 01:04 PM
Cassel did not look like a superstar with either the Pats or the Chiefs last year. He looked . . . good. Not great, good. We were the 30th ranked passing offense last year, supported by the number one run game. Which, again, doesn't mean Cassel didn't do exactly what he was asked to do. Weis maximized his strengths (accuracy, efficiency, leadership) and minimized his weaknesses (lack of arm strength and athleticisim).

Brady had a bad game (for him) last game. A quarterback's worth isn't based on one bad or good game.

Cassel's supporting cast, outside of Bowe and maybe Asamoah, is terrible. He is unable to make chicken salad out of the chicken **** we call offensive line and skill players. And part of the reason for his terrible play this year is because of this fact. That doesn't mean he isn't playing terribly, or that someone else couldn't do better. Also, one of the reasons his receivers are dropping balls is because Cassel is leading them right into traffic. Again, he has no choice as his line isn't giving him enough time to throw.

I have no idea whether we'd eventually win a SB with Luck. I just know we'll have a better shot than if we stick with Cassel. For what it's worth, we won't finish bad enough to get Luck. The Colts or Seahawks will be fighting for that honor. Our choice will be Barkley or Moore versus Kalil.

He would be a top 10 QB with his numbers at NE and last year. Nope, just an average QB that needs replaced-you're right. I let facts get in the way of bone-headed emotion. I can see that now. Cassel has to go. A top 10 QB isn't good enough.

jmlamerson
09-29-2011, 01:18 PM
He would be a top 10 QB with his numbers at NE and last year. Nope, just an average QB that needs replaced-you're right. I let facts get in the way of bone-headed emotion. I can see that now. Cassel has to go. A top 10 QB isn't good enough.

Why don't you try being polite? If you keep insulting me, I'll make you my b!tch.

In terms of YPG or passing offense, Cassel wasn't remotely a top-10 QB in 2010. He had a top-10 QB rating last year because we didn't throw the ball much, because we played bad pass defenses, and because he didn't turn it over. QB rating and QB performance aren't the same thing. If we want to talk QB rating, Cassel has a 79.7 rating as a Chief, which comfortably puts him below average.

And including the NE numbers in this discussion is irrelevant. How a guy does with Belichick, Moss, Welker, and a great OL doesn't relate at all to how he's doing (or would do) with the Chiefs.

OPLookn
09-29-2011, 02:13 PM
Man... Any other first time starter does what he did in 2008 and the entire league is amazed at this guy's superstar abilioty.

Not saying you, in particular. But the general consencus would be of "Superstar".

I think the "Career-backup" label seriously put Cassel behind the eight ball in the eyes of most.

Because, if that rookie who was touted as a clearly budding superstar, manages to have a year like Cassel's 2010, then most would be convinced.

Again though, I think the "career backup" label, coupled with Cassel's age, makes the masses resistent to the usual flows of opinion.

What has two thumbs and agrees with the bolded statement? This guy!!

:lol:

azchiefsfan
09-29-2011, 02:43 PM
Why don't you try being polite? If you keep insulting me, I'll make you my b!tch.

In terms of YPG or passing offense, Cassel wasn't remotely a top-10 QB in 2010. He had a top-10 QB rating last year because we didn't throw the ball much, because we played bad pass defenses, and because he didn't turn it over. QB rating and QB performance aren't the same thing. If we want to talk QB rating, Cassel has a 79.7 rating as a Chief, which comfortably puts him below average.

And including the NE numbers in this discussion is irrelevant. How a guy does with Belichick, Moss, Welker, and a great OL doesn't relate at all to how he's doing (or would do) with the Chiefs.

There was nothing directed at anyone, just Cassel haters in general. Oh geez, I better watch my p's and q's. I'm really frightened by internet threats. 8th most passing TD's when we had the #1 running team. Yeah, Cassel sucks and needs to go. Come on, man, you got some more of them scary threats? Weak minds resort to silly threats when their arguments have no weight. That's for whoever it fits.

Bike
09-29-2011, 03:42 PM
If it wasn't for his arm, his accuracy, and his ability to see the field, Cassel would be a pretty good qb...

jmlamerson
09-29-2011, 05:26 PM
There was nothing directed at anyone, just Cassel haters in general. Oh geez, I better watch my p's and q's. I'm really frightened by internet threats. 8th most passing TD's when we had the #1 running team. Yeah, Cassel sucks and needs to go. Come on, man, you got some more of them scary threats? Weak minds resort to silly threats when their arguments have no weight. That's for whoever it fits.

Either you're playing stupid or you're actually stupid. Neither is good for you.

azchiefsfan
09-29-2011, 06:12 PM
Oh, threats didn't bolster your theory, so now we posit name calling for consideration. Fact: Cassel is a top 10 quarterback. Now please try some facts. Your desperation and grasping at straws plus your resorting to juvenile tactics really make you appear both uninformed and, frankly, sad.

azchiefsfan
09-29-2011, 06:13 PM
Oh, I missed the implied threat. "Neither is good for you." You gonna go to your mom's basement and conjure a spell?

Bike
09-29-2011, 07:20 PM
Fact: Cassel is a top 10 quarterback.

1. Tom Brady
2. Matt Ryan
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Phillip Rivers
5. Matt Schaub
6. Tony Romo
7. Joe Flacco
8. Drew Breez
9. Aaron Rogers
10. Michael Vick
11. Cam Newton
12. Jay Cutler
13. Eli Manning
14. Josh Freeman
15. Sam Bradford
16. Ryan Fitzpatrick
17. Matthew Stafford
18. Matt Hasselback
19. Kyle Orton
20. Colt McCoy

There's 20. Is Cassel better than ten of these guys?

jmlamerson
09-29-2011, 08:10 PM
Oh, threats didn't bolster your theory, so now we posit name calling for consideration. Fact: Cassel is a top 10 quarterback. Now please try some facts. Your desperation and grasping at straws plus your resorting to juvenile tactics really make you appear both uninformed and, frankly, sad.

Threats?! Were you really threatened by my comment?! How wimpy are you?

Cassel is not remotely a top-10 QB. The most you can argue is that he was in 2008 and 2010. He's a 79.6 QBR quarterback in his Chiefs career. That's below average.

And here's juvenile: :mooning:

jmlamerson
09-29-2011, 08:13 PM
1. Tom Brady
2. Matt Ryan
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Phillip Rivers
5. Matt Schaub
6. Tony Romo
7. Joe Flacco
8. Drew Breez
9. Aaron Rogers
10. Michael Vick
11. Cam Newton
12. Jay Cutler
13. Eli Manning
14. Josh Freeman
15. Sam Bradford
16. Ryan Fitzpatrick
17. Matthew Stafford
18. Matt Hasselback
19. Kyle Orton
20. Colt McCoy

There's 20. Is Cassel better than ten of these guys?

Yeah, I get liking Cassel. He's smart, work hard, and can be an efficient winner in a Weis/Belichick system. But he doesn't have the arm strength or athleticism of the guys on this list. And you forgot Sanchez and even maybe Romo.

azchiefsfan
09-29-2011, 08:21 PM
Threats?! Were you really threatened by my comment?! How wimpy are you?

Cassel is not remotely a top-10 QB. The most you can argue is that he was in 2008 and 2010. He's a 79.6 QBR quarterback in his Chiefs career. That's below average.

And here's juvenile: :mooning:

I'm not threatened in the least at your attempts to imply threats. Now you will run like a typical internet hero from what you said. It's typical of the type. You really are pathetic and sad.

azchiefsfan
09-29-2011, 08:22 PM
1. Tom Brady
2. Matt Ryan
3. Ben Roethlisberger
4. Phillip Rivers
5. Matt Schaub
6. Tony Romo
7. Joe Flacco
8. Drew Breez
9. Aaron Rogers
10. Michael Vick
11. Cam Newton
12. Jay Cutler
13. Eli Manning
14. Josh Freeman
15. Sam Bradford
16. Ryan Fitzpatrick
17. Matthew Stafford
18. Matt Hasselback
19. Kyle Orton
20. Colt McCoy

There's 20. Is Cassel better than ten of these guys?

Yes.

kilobytes
09-29-2011, 09:55 PM
I'm convinced Cassel will always be a decent QB. The guy can be above average with a decent o line and great running game but the guy can't lead a comeback in the last two minutes at all. It almost always ends in an INT. That tells me that he folds when the game is on the line. That isn't good enough to win a playoff game.

He has no arm, his accuracy is average at best, he holds on to the ball too long, he is afraid to pass down field, and he can't mount comebacks. We aren't going to win championships with him, period (unless we have the greatest Offensive line, receivers, coaching and running game of all time).

tornadospotter
09-29-2011, 11:00 PM
Chill out all! Do not go personal.

2010chiefs
09-29-2011, 11:02 PM
It takes way tooo much to convince you. You probably think Muir is a great OC and just needs a few more years to be great and we're just over reacting.

tornadospotter
09-29-2011, 11:14 PM
I'm convinced Cassel will always be a decent QB. The guy can be above average with a decent o line and great running game but the guy can't lead a comeback in the last two minutes at all. It almost always ends in an INT. That tells me that he folds when the game is on the line. That isn't good enough to win a playoff game.

He has no arm, his accuracy is average at best, he holds on to the ball too long, he is afraid to pass down field, and he can't mount comebacks. We aren't going to win championships with him, period (unless we have the greatest Offensive line, receivers, coaching and running game of all time).
I have never been a big fan of Cassel from the start. To my eyes, he throws a football hard and low, he has to many knockdowns at the line of scrimmage. He just throws a pass unfriendly to a receiver. It is always a catch hard to make. Just my thoughts and have always been my thoughts, you can look them up. I have said this all along, in my opinions about Cassel's passes. Personally, with what has happened so far this season, I would like a change to happen! Can Matt change? He better or the Team needs to make the change. We need a game changing QB!

Connie Jo
09-29-2011, 11:16 PM
I agree with you on a number of things, also I feel a big problem with Cassel right now is all the OC's. Three years and three OC's. That in itself can not be an easy thing to cope with. It's my opinion thay Mr Haley himself needs to grow up. We had a good thing with Charlie Wiess and it appears Mr Haley ran him off or so it is rumored, and I feel there is a good chance we will have yet another in 2012. The O line has to be at the top of the list. and dont expect to see Andrew Luck even if we do go 0-16, I am not a big Cassel fan but he is our QB and we will have to live with it. I have a Great deal of respect for the man and I'll just leave it at that...:chiefs:

I've not read through the entire 4 pages yet of the discussion, so apologize if someone else added this information. Charlie Wiess never intended to be a long term OC with the Chiefs. He made it clear if an opportunity presented itself of which he could be of benefit towards his son, he would take it. The opportunity Charlie wanted came, bad timing for the Chiefs, but of no surprise to them at all, since he had made himself clear when agreeing to come to KC. Charlie took the job in Florida sacrificing an NFL career and less in pay...to be closer & of more benefit to his son. Can't begrudge a man for loving and putting his son first, before himself or anything else. :)

Connie Jo
09-29-2011, 11:20 PM
First off we have not had a good O-line since Willie Roaf retired, do you guys remember when Tyler Thigpen was playing here as our starting qb over 3 years ago and he had to run for his life to make a pass, guess what not much has changed. I have been saying for the last 4 years we need to deal with our OL, Cassel is better then Thigpen but if he has no time to throw the ball what do you expect to happen. Secondly can we get a decent OC I mean really who the hell is calling the plays, and on top of that Cassel has had what a couple months to learn and get on the same page with yet another OC. It's rediculous I admit he's no Tom Brady, and I admit he is overpaid, but I don't feel he's had a fair evaluation. What we need to do is drop some serious cash on our line and quit being cheap, quality OL don't come from the dollar store aka the 5th and 6th round. Instead of wasting a number 1 pick on safeties that break all the time or on WR who break their thumbs. We need a LT (Albert a is a guard playing LT) or at least a RT. If your going to put a lot of money on the line why not put it on something that is possibly one of the most important positions on the offense. A good LT turns a decent qb into a good one. If Cassel had Trents OL I think we might very well be 3-0.

REP from me too, by the way, haha. :)

Connie Jo
09-29-2011, 11:27 PM
Cassel did not look like a superstar with either the Pats or the Chiefs last year. He looked . . . good. Not great, good. We were the 30th ranked passing offense last year, supported by the number one run game. Which, again, doesn't mean Cassel didn't do exactly what he was asked to do. Weis maximized his strengths (accuracy, efficiency, leadership) and minimized his weaknesses (lack of arm strength and athleticisim).

Brady had a bad game (for him) last game. A quarterback's worth isn't based on one bad or good game.

Cassel's supporting cast, outside of Bowe and maybe Asamoah, is terrible. He is unable to make chicken salad out of the chicken **** we call offensive line and skill players. And part of the reason for his terrible play this year is because of this fact. That doesn't mean he isn't playing terribly, or that someone else couldn't do better. Also, one of the reasons his receivers are dropping balls is because Cassel is leading them right into traffic. Again, he has no choice as his line isn't giving him enough time to throw.

I have no idea whether we'd eventually win a SB with Luck. I just know we'll have a better shot than if we stick with Cassel. For what it's worth, we won't finish bad enough to get Luck. The Colts or Seahawks will be fighting for that honor. Our choice will be Barkley or Moore versus Kalil.

OH, thank you so very much for discluding Bowe! hahaha I'm emotionally drained from the last month of debating positively with negative comments by Chiefs fans overall. That said however, as a self proclaimed defender of all things 'Bowe'...I would've managed the strength to stand beside Bowe had you been critical of him too, hahahaha.

Again, thank you, for not bashing Bowe too! I need to preserve my energy to do my part as a 12th man/woman factor at Arrowhead this Sunday, lol.

Connie Jo
09-29-2011, 11:35 PM
I'm convinced Cassel will always be a decent QB. The guy can be above average with a decent o line and great running game but the guy can't lead a comeback in the last two minutes at all. It almost always ends in an INT. That tells me that he folds when the game is on the line. That isn't good enough to win a playoff game.

He has no arm, his accuracy is average at best, he holds on to the ball too long, he is afraid to pass down field, and he can't mount comebacks. We aren't going to win championships with him, period (unless we have the greatest Offensive line, receivers, coaching and running game of all time).

Believe it or not...once upon a time long ago, there was another QB in the NFL of whom many fans described in a similar manner as you describe Cassel now. I believe he was in his 6th or 7th year before he began to reveal he was not a good QB, but a legendary one. His name....

Joe Montana

:D

tornadospotter
09-29-2011, 11:40 PM
OH, thank you so very much for discluding Bowe! hahaha I'm emotionally drained from the last month of debating positively with negative comments by Chiefs fans overall. That said however, as a self proclaimed defender of all things 'Bowe'...I would've managed the strength to stand beside Bowe had you been critical of him too, hahahaha.

Again, thank you, for not bashing Bowe too! I need to preserve my energy to do my part as a 12th man/woman factor at Arrowhead this Sunday, lol.
I will not bash DB, but will say, I not convince he is all he can be yet. He is not yet all that some think he can be. Last season, was his best, but still drops catches he should not. Just saying.:smile

hometeam
09-29-2011, 11:51 PM
here is the deal.

cassel has never lead a 4th quarter comeback victory.

cassel cant get the ball down the field.

cassel makes mistakes

CASSEL IS NOT GOING TO TAKE US TO THE SUPER BOWL


thread over.

tornadospotter
09-29-2011, 11:53 PM
here is the deal.

cassel has never lead a 4th quarter comeback victory.

cassel cant get the ball down the field.

cassel makes mistakes

CASSEL IS NOT GOING TO TAKE US TO THE SUPER BOWL


thread over.

No it is not!:yahoo:

chief31
09-30-2011, 12:40 AM
It takes way tooo much to convince you. You probably think Muir is a great OC and just needs a few more years to be great and we're just over reacting.

A whole season didn't convince you, yet three games does, and you are telling someone else that, because three games is not enough proof, it takes too much to convince them?

Ever hear of the term "knee-jerk reaction"?




here is the deal.

cassel has never lead a 4th quarter comeback victory.

cassel cant get the ball down the field.

cassel makes mistakes

CASSEL IS NOT GOING TO TAKE US TO THE SUPER BOWL


thread over.

NFL Game Center: St. Louis Rams at New England Patriots - 2008 Week 8 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008102605/2008/REG8/rams@patriots#tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay)

NFL Game Center: New England Patriots at Seattle Seahawks - 2008 Week 14 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2008120713/2008/REG14/patriots@seahawks#tab=analyze)

NFL Game Center: Kansas City Chiefs at Cleveland Browns - 2010 Week 2 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010091903/2010/REG2/chiefs@browns#menu=highlights&tab=analyze)

NFL Game Center: Buffalo Bills at Kansas City Chiefs - 2010 Week 8 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2010103103/2010/REG8/bills@chiefs#menu=highlights&tab=analyze) (OT)

Thread reopened due to failure in information.
Was this thread closed?

You are on the internet. Take a couple of minutes to find the facts before babbling whatever you feel like, while proclaiming your failure as a success.
How do you determine success? Should it be winning at the last moment? Sure I will take that! I prefer that we do not need it! Show us how we dominate a game, then lets talk success!

jmlamerson
09-30-2011, 12:09 PM
OH, thank you so very much for discluding Bowe! hahaha I'm emotionally drained from the last month of debating positively with negative comments by Chiefs fans overall. That said however, as a self proclaimed defender of all things 'Bowe'...I would've managed the strength to stand beside Bowe had you been critical of him too, hahahaha.

Again, thank you, for not bashing Bowe too! I need to preserve my energy to do my part as a 12th man/woman factor at Arrowhead this Sunday, lol.

Bowe is our best offensive player (yes, better than Charles) and has been for years. He's consistently posted 1000 yard seasons without a top QB like Manning or Brady. He's our entire receiving game. Really, check out the stats for % of a teams total receiving yards - he's higher than Fitzgerald, Welker, Calvin Johnson, Andre Johnson, or anyone else.

And I don't want anyone to bring up drops. If you were led into traffic a half-dozen times a game by QBs who can't get it dowfield (either because they suck or because the OL had broken down) you'd be dropping balls too, if only to stay alive.

If Pioli doesn't re-sign Bowe, he should be fired. Out of a cannon and into the sun. Because we're getting TO in his prime here, and no one seems to realize it.

azchiefsfan
09-30-2011, 12:16 PM
here is the deal.

cassel has never lead a 4th quarter comeback victory.

cassel cant get the ball down the field.

cassel makes mistakes

CASSEL IS NOT GOING TO TAKE US TO THE SUPER BOWL


thread over.

Wow, another person declaring their opinion to be canon and therefore nothing more need be said. I'm gonna jump out of this thread anyway, since the Cassel haters are getting more desperate, shrill and rude. Whether you like it or not Cassel will be our QB for at least the next 2 seasons. There is far too much $ tied up in him. Like EVERY QB, he struggles or excels as the team around him allows. Last year Peyton Manning got the crap kicked out of him and had tons of sacks and interceptions. He is about as good as QB's can get, but even he couldn't get past a bad offensive line and a depleted running and receiving corps. So when Cassel is leading us to the playoffs and possibly the Super Bowl, I will remind you bandwagoners of the hate that you spewed when you start saying how great you always thought he was.

jmlamerson
09-30-2011, 12:22 PM
Wow, another person declaring their opinion to be canon and therefore nothing more need be said. I'm gonna jump out of this thread anyway, since the Cassel haters are getting more desperate, shrill and rude. Whether you like it or not Cassel will be our QB for at least the next 2 seasons. There is far too much $ tied up in him. Like EVERY QB, he struggles or excels as the team around him allows. Last year Peyton Manning got the crap kicked out of him and had tons of sacks and interceptions. He is about as good as QB's can get, but even he couldn't get past a bad offensive line and a depleted running and receiving corps. So when Cassel is leading us to the playoffs and possibly the Super Bowl, I will remind you bandwagoners of the hate that you spewed when you start saying how great you always thought he was.

:beat_DeadHorse:

Chiefster
09-30-2011, 02:17 PM
No it is not!:yahoo:

:lol:

chief31
09-30-2011, 03:09 PM
Haha i cant stop laughing at this post. Look at the stats for the kc come back wins against the browns and bills. They are awful, and btw it took him 5 full quarters to put up those 13 points. 2 come backs in the past 2 seasons against **** teams and by god look at those stats! Forget luck we have cassel!

16/28 176 yds 2 int against CLEVELAND.

14/26 152 yds 1 td BUFF

11 mil well spent! QB RATING THROUGH THE ROOF!

Btw he is 24th this year in the qbr ratings.

Since you seem to struggle to follow, I will recap for you....

"Hometeam" had this to say.... "cassel has never lead a 4th quarter comeback victory."

...To which I responded with undeniable proof that "hometeam" was wrong.

And now, you are challengiing the facts, and pretending like fourth quarter come from behind victories don't matter because the QB didn't have pretty stats?

Here are some QB stats for ya.....

18/34, 215 Yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT
30-43, 415 Yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT
21/33, 295 Yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
12/25, 153 Yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs
20/36, 345 Yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs
37/57, 476 Yards, 1TD, 1 INT
23/33, 236 Yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs
23/38, 314 Yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs
16/27, 145 Yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs
24/41, 347 Yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs
33/53, 469 Yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs
9/23, 123 Yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs
24/34, 314 Yards, 3TDs, 0 INTs
30/51 400 Yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs
22/32, 233 Yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs
16/27, 250 Yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT
21/30, 256 Yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
31/43, 377 Yards, 3 Tds, 1 INT


Now, since fourth quarter come from behind victories aren't good enough for you, unless they include statistics, you pick which of the above sets of numbers are good enough for your fantasy team, and I'll tell ya which QB posted them.

Winning is far more important than posting statistics for your fantasy owners.

chief31
09-30-2011, 04:30 PM
Are you trying to impress me with yards? The guy was 30th in passing last year, last this year, ya some great stats right there

Again with the faliure to read.....

I told you what the statistics were there for. Read.

Although, it is hilarioous to watch you act like passing yards is unimportant, only to immediately turn on yourself and complain about passing yards.

But seriously, read.


They had a FG to take the lead at 8 minutes in the cleveland game in the 4th and then it took him a full OT to put up 3 pts against buffalo. Really? You think those are "come from behind wins?" Really?

Sure.

This should be good.

Tell me, if winning a game, after having been trailing during the fourth quarter, is not a come from behind, fourth quarter victory.....

The question can't even be formed.

When you trail in the fourth quarter, and you win that game, that is a come from behind victory.

It can't be simplified any more than that for you.



tom brady, aaron rodgers, Peyton manning, Phillip rivers, Matt Ryan all threw for more touchdowns than cassel and there were 29 other qbs with more passing yards than him.

Now, how do you like that? haha

I like that fine.

I thought you were unimpressed with passing yards?

Didn't you just try and sell me that story?




Here are some QB stats for ya.....

18/34, 215 Yards, 2 TDs, 1 INT
30-43, 415 Yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT
21/33, 295 Yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
12/25, 153 Yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs
20/36, 345 Yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs
37/57, 476 Yards, 1TD, 1 INT
23/33, 236 Yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs
23/38, 314 Yards, 2 TDs, 0 INTs
16/27, 145 Yards, 1 TD, 0 INTs
24/41, 347 Yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs
33/53, 469 Yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs
9/23, 123 Yards, 0 TDs, 2 INTs
24/34, 314 Yards, 3TDs, 0 INTs
30/51 400 Yards, 3 TDs, 0 INTs
22/32, 233 Yards, 4 TDs, 0 INTs
16/27, 250 Yards, 3 TDs, 1 INT
21/30, 256 Yards, 1 TD, 1 INT
31/43, 377 Yards, 3 Tds, 1 INT


Now, since fourth quarter come from behind victories aren't good enough for you, unless they include statistics, you pick which of the above sets of numbers are good enough for your fantasy team, and I'll tell ya which QB posted them.

Now, pick out the good games, since the stats are the important thing you decided to laugh at when a QB was winning in come-from-behind fashion.

Some of those games are Matt Cassel games. Some are not.

You tell me, which are the good games.

You belittled winning and ridiculed, based on statistics.

So, tell me which of those stat lines is impressive, and which are not.

chief31
09-30-2011, 04:35 PM
Are you trying to impress me with yards? The guy was 30th in passing last year, last this year, ya some great stats right there



http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&tabSeq=0&season=2010&experience=null&Submit=Go&archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&qualified=true (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&tabSeq=0&season=2010&experience=null&Submit=Go&archive=true&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&qualified=true)


Tell that to The NFL.

Because, according to them, Matt Cassel was 19th.

Click the link.

What does NFL.com have to say about 30th in passing yards?

They seem to be calling you a liar.

Is that true?

Was Matt Cassel actually 19th, as The NFL says, or are they lying?

2010chiefs
09-30-2011, 10:06 PM
Last season did convince me that he wasn't a good enough QB for this team and the three atrocious games he's had this year proved I was right to doubt him last year. What games are you watching really. Your great with numbers and bad with logic. Watch the frickin game Chief31. He's that bad and your not fooling anyone.

matthewschiefs
09-30-2011, 11:37 PM
No not lying at all. 30th in passing yards right here

NFL Stats: by Player Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&season=2010&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

Ummm even your link shows him at 19th need your eyes checked?:blows:

matthewschiefs
10-01-2011, 12:18 AM
Fine 24th in YPG you happy? That big of an improvement for you 11 million dollar a year man

Ummm you do know that we had the number 1 rushing game in the NFL don't you. Theres a reason that the passing yards might have been down. If it was the other way you would be saying how bad our runners are.

TopekaRoy
10-01-2011, 01:07 AM
Fine 24th in YPG you happy? That big of an improvement for you 11 million dollar a year man

He was 19th in total yds and 24th in yds per game. That's not 30th. You would have more credibility if you would quit making stuff up (lying). You also fail to mention that Matt was 23rd in pass attempts per game. He threw the ball for fewer yards because he threw it fewer times.
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2011/10/1.jpg

He also was ranked 8th in the NFL in TD passes which si pretty good, I think, for a team that ran the ball so much.

figcrostic
10-01-2011, 11:22 AM
I have gained so much respect for you of late.

Words like this coming from a guy who once started threads like these....

Cassel and the Chiefs owe Jamaal some money - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12328)

Give Brodie a chance - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11805)

Cassel isn't the next Trent Green - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11758)

Should we start Brodie? - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11678)

Am I still wrong for not liking Cassel? - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11661)

Can we go ahead and draft a solid 2nd round QB - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11721)

Still not impressed by Cassel - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11429)

...to see Cassel prove him wrong, then struggle this season, and not jump directly on the "I HATE MATT CASSEL" bandwagon, shows some serious class.

Not to mention how you have grown as a member of the crowd.

I remember how you would get into full-on hate-fests with people around here.

:lol:

Now, look at you.

Acting all respectful to others, and grown-up like. :D

And the fact is, before you ever showed up back then, I may well have been the most "anti-Cassel" member on here.

My how things have changed.

And I couldn't agree with you more here.

After how Matt Cassel was able to do so much, even with such a nasty situation, last season, I just don't get how so many are so willing to throw it all away so quickly.

Maybe he will never play so well again. With our offensive scheme, and O-line, it wouldn't be too shocking.

But, since he has managed to do so much in his first three seasons, I just can't fathom giving up on him this quickly.

Rep to you.

Yeah I had gotten laid off and was kind of pissed off at the time and it obviously showed. Plus I've come to the realization that posting a comment is different then saying something to your friend during the game. If Cassel throws a pick during the game and you say "Damn it Cassell you suck!" you may not really think that but it's understood that people get emotional during a game. Whereas on the forum it's not only permanent but it's written so the reader can not accurately interept your words as well a verbal conversation. Also i've realized this isn't madden these are actual people. It's not like we can just get rid of Cassel for 1st and and their best LT who's rated an 95 pick up a qb in FA who's throwing power is rated a 99 and accuracy a 95 and get a superbowl. We are stuck with Cassell like it or not for probably this year and next. I think he is good enough for a 60% running 40% passing team. Last year he proved he could make few errors and capitalize when our running game got us near the redzone. He threw very few yards but an S load of TD's and I'm fine with that. Even if you hate Cassel what are the options? Honestly for this season what are the solutions? Should we really bench him and put in Palko and Stanzi I almost guarantee your going to get a worse result. Palko is not as good as Cassell and will most likely never be ans Stanzi he's a rookie who's not ready give him a year or two and we'll see. Maybe that's Pioli's plan hey give this guy a few years and we will see who's starts in 2013.

figcrostic
10-01-2011, 11:33 AM
I agree with keeping Cassel, also for many of the reasons you gave. I'm in support of drafting Berry, however, for many justified reasons. From a GM's point of view...Berry made complete sense with drafting as being beneficial to the Chiefs franchise in all aspects considered.

I'm reserving judgement on whether or not Baldwin was a worthy draft pick, until I witness what he will or will not bring positively to our passing game. We needed to improve our passing game.

We don't know what Pioli has in his mind. It's possible he's reserving cap money for a justified reason, including improving the o-line. He knows things within the NFL & NCAA we don't. He could have his eye on particular players he wants and feels are worthy of waiting for before dropping money on those he feels are less worthy. Time will tell, and Pioli really hasn't been given the time fairly to put together the team he wants. The lockout threw a major hurdle into plans for this year.

I don't dislike Berry I just think a OL is far superior pick over a safety no matter what his name is. Sorry it took me so long to reply I've been swamped at work.

chief31
10-01-2011, 02:03 PM
No not lying at all. 30th in passing yards right here

NFL Stats: by Player Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=PASSING&conference=null&season=2010&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

:lol:

http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2011/10/2.jpg

You should start another "I'm so right..." thread for this.

:lol:

chief31
10-01-2011, 02:14 PM
Last season did convince me that he wasn't a good enough QB for this team and the three atrocious games he's had this year proved I was right to doubt him last year. What games are you watching really. Your great with numbers and bad with logic. Watch the frickin game Chief31. He's that bad and your not fooling anyone.

You watch?

Hmm. Never thought of that.

Just out of curiosity, do you ever watch WRs batting passes to the ground?

Do you bother to watch where a "pocket" is supposed to be?

Do you ever watch outside pass rushers easily going around OTs and making the QB move up to where the pocket is supposed to be?

NAH! All anybody needs to see is the QB play, except for a full season when that QB is playing so well that it makes fools of those who said he couldn't do what he was doing.

Then you just have to sit back and wait until he stops overcoming the poor blocking and receivers for a couple of games, so you can pretend like others don't watch the games.

Prior to his appendectomy last year, Cassel's season was looking amazingly similar to those of Joe Montana.

And THAT convinced you that he was no good.

You probably aughtn't even mention the word "logic" for a while.

figcrostic
10-02-2011, 08:35 PM
Just wanna thank Cassel for not making me look like an A-hole for making this thread. Thanks Cassel!!!!