I still don't like Cassell

[iamsofaking]

Another lack luster performance by the 60 million dollar man. I know a bunch of you are going to respond in defense of him but ask yourself this. Has his performance over the past 2 seasons justified his salary? He will have made 40 million by the end of the season. I personally have not seen ANYTHING to justify this.

[azchiefsfan]

I don't care.:beat_DeadHorse::yahoo:

[chiefnut]

with a little better offense we would have beaten them 45-0 , but i am still THRILLED!!!!

[Ryfo18]

I get why people are mad what he's making, but it makes no difference to me really. This team is still the most under the cap of any team in the NFL.

[BigChiefTablet]

I'm not concerned about what we are paying him or not paying him. I just want him gone.

[TopekaRoy]

Another lack luster performance by the 60 million dollar man. I know a bunch of you are going to respond in defense of him but ask yourself this. Has his performance over the past 2 seasons justified his salary? He will have made 40 million by the end of the season. I personally have not seen ANYTHING to justify this.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. Feel better now?

As a Chiefs fan it is very important to me that nobody gets paid a dime more than they deserve and that nobody gets paid a dime less than they deserve becuase ... um ... like, ticket prices ... team solvency and stuff ... and um ... Parking is to high, I guess. I don't know, I've never actually been to a Chiefs game, but someone must be getting screwed!

Doctors and lawyers and politicians are overpaid, too.

I hate that!

[Ryfo18]

By the way, are talking about Sam Cassell?

[kcnation]

cassel better step up his game already cause we are going to need him very soon to come thru at key times.he has shown nothing of what he was last season and he is not accurate at all

[pojote]

I don't think Cassel is or ever will be an elite QB. But whining about him won't give us a superbowl either.
What chances do we have to get a Peyton Manning, Tom Brady or Aaron Rodgers?
We better support our team with this QB (as we don't have another), and expect to get an elite QB as Patriots got Brady or even better as we got Montana once.

[tornadospotter]

Another lack luster performance by the 60 million dollar man. I know a bunch of you are going to respond in defense of him but ask yourself this. Has his performance over the past 2 seasons justified his salary? He will have made 40 million by the end of the season. I personally have not seen ANYTHING to justify this.
Nice name iamsofaking it, the question is, what are you faking?

[BigChiefTablet]

Nice name iamsofaking it, the question is, what are you faking?

Pretty sure the name is "I am sofa king."

Like "I am sofa king stoned that I can't type."

[TopekaRoy]

Pretty sure the name is "I am sofa king."

Like "I am sofa king stoned that I can't type."
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2011/10/20.jpg

[chief31]

cassel better step up his game already cause we are going to need him very soon to come thru at key times.he has shown nothing of what he was last season and he is not accurate at all

NFL Game Center: Kansas City Chiefs at Indianapolis Colts - 2011 Week 5 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011100902/2011/REG5/chiefs@colts#menu=highlights&tab=analyze)

21/29, 257 Yards, 4TDs, 0 INTS.

NFL Game Center: Minnesota Vikings at Kansas City Chiefs - 2011 Week 4 (http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/2011100208/2011/REG4/vikings@chiefs#menu=highlights&tab=analyze)

18/29, 260 Yards, 1 TD, 0 INTS.

NFL Stats: by Player Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=0&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&d-447263-s=PASSING_COMPLETION_PERCENTAGE)

8th in The NFL in Completion Percentage.

I could easily tell you what is "not accurate at all".

[azchiefsfan]

31, don't throw out misleading numbers. EVERYONE knows Cassel sucks. Please quit demonstrating that idea is unfounded. EVERYONE can't be wrong, can they?

[figcrostic]

31, don't throw out misleading numbers. EVERYONE knows Cassel sucks. Please quit demonstrating that idea is unfounded. EVERYONE can't be wrong, can they?

You do know there is an in between of Tom Brady and Jamarcus Russell on the QB spectrum. While Cassel is no Tom Brady he is miles ahead of Jamarcus out of 32 starting qb's he's probably around the 14th-15th best. Basically, saying that he sucks is a gross over statement Matt Cassell most certainly does not suck, I guarantee if we put Matt Cassell on the trading block we could get a low first or a high 2nd round pick for him.

[2010chiefs]

I rather have a Christian Ponder then a Matt Cassel. Our Wr's are way too good to let them go to waste. We still have one of the best rushing attacks in the NFL. The defense speaks for itself after Sundays performance. They got there swagger back and i'm sure it'll get better. THE WEAK LINK IS CASSEL AND YES WAY OVERPAID! A good QB is all we need to be great!

[azchiefsfan]

You do know there is an in between of Tom Brady and Jamarcus Russell on the QB spectrum. While Cassel is no Tom Brady he is miles ahead of Jamarcus out of 32 starting qb's he's probably around the 14th-15th best. Basically, saying that he sucks is a gross over statement Matt Cassell most certainly does not suck, I guarantee if we put Matt Cassell on the trading block we could get a low first or a high 2nd round pick for him.

You don't pick up on sarcasm too well, do you? I would rank Cassel somewhere between 8-10. You look at all the QB's in the league and what some teams are settling for, Cassel is a great pickup for us. I was being very tongue-in-cheek. I like Cassel and was merely pointing out the ludicrousness of the folks who constantly run him down without looking at his numbers.

[azchiefsfan]

I would rather have Cassel than Eli Manning.

[KristofLaw]

I admit I was disappointed somewhat both when we traded and then signed Matt to his contract and anointed starter position back when. But he's our QB and my football knowledge may seem extensive to myself, but I am not in the office making these deals. I remain hopeful our office landed the right fella. I like him well enough, he's a Chief. :D

[Chiefster]

Pretty sure the name is "I am sofa king."

Like "I am sofa king stoned that I can't type."

:lol:

I read it as "I am so faking" as well.

Maybe he should have typed it like this :"IAmSofaKing" or something...

[doobs_05]

i'm not a fan of cassel not because of his salary but because he will never lead a team to a super bowl

[Three7s]

i'm not a fan of cassel not because of his salary but because he will never lead a team to a super bowl without a phenomenal defense.
fixed

[doobs_05]

fixed


thank you forgot that

[TopekaRoy]

I want one of you guys who say that Cassel is holding us back to tell me what our record would be this year with a better quarterback. It wouldn't have made a difference in the first 2 games because the whole team played horrible. We still won the last 3 games even with Cassel.

The only game where it might have made a difference was in San Diego. Even then we probably would have had to settle for a FG to tie the game and there is no guarantee we would have won in overtime. I would argue that one of the biggest reasons we even had a chance to win that game was because of Cassel's good play in the 2nd half.

There is a small possibility that we might have one more win this year with a better QB, but we might have won that game with better play at several other positions as well. Cassel is not the problem with the Chiefs and a better QB wouldn't give us any more wins, IMO.

[Chiefster]

I want one of you guys who say that Cassel is holding us back to tell me what our record would be this year with a better quarterback. It wouldn't have made a difference in the first 2 games because the whole team played horrible. We still won the last 3 games even with Cassel.

The only game where it might have made a difference was in San Diego. Even then we probably would have had to settle for a FG to tie the game and there is no guarantee we would have won in overtime. I would argue that one of the biggest reasons we even had a chance to win that game was because of Cassel's good play in the 2nd half.

There is a small possibility that we might have one more win this year with a better QB, but we might have won that game with better play at several other positions as well. Cassel is not the problem with the Chiefs and a better QB wouldn't give us any more wins, IMO.

Well said! Rep!

[TopekaRoy]

Well said! Rep!
Thanks. I'm still waiting for a reply from one of the Cassel "critics", though.

[azchiefsfan]

Cassel was one of the biggest reasons we did so well last year. Now this year the season started and the whole team was flat and ineffective and people want to blame someone, so they point at Cassel. That is such a narrow and shortsighted point of view. As the whole team improves, Cassels numbers will go up. The best example of this is last years Colts. Again, undoubtedly Manning is one of the best QB's of our generation. But he had his worst seasons ever because of the team around him falling apart. How is it such a phenomenal QB gets a pass because of the poor team play, but on a rebuilding and injured team like the Chiefs, Cassel doesn't get the benefit of the doubt? Cassel is not a Dan Fouts/Dan Marino long-ball QB. Neither was the greatest(by Super Bowl wins) Joe Montana. If it was up to Montana throwing 30 yard + passes, San Fran wouldn't have won a single Super Bowl. The converse can actually be inferred when looking at Steve Young, who was more of a long-ball passer only getting one Super Bowl and that was when they were using him in the Montana short-pass scheme. Once our O line and receivers are up to above average play, you will see the quick strike, NE style ball play and these same haters will be on the bandwagon again. It's called building a friggin team. And I, for one, think Cassel is the perfect play caller for the job.

[OPLookn]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. Feel better now?

As a Chiefs fan it is very important to me that nobody gets paid a dime more than they deserve and that nobody gets paid a dime less than they deserve becuase ... um ... like, ticket prices ... team solvency and stuff ... and um ... Parking is to high, I guess. I don't know, I've never actually been to a Chiefs game, but someone must be getting screwed!

Doctors and lawyers and politicians are overpaid, too.

I hate that!

Not to try and be a d*ck or anything but parking fees seriously suck. I had season tickets a few years back and not that I'm rolling in money but I stretched a bit because I wanted to have season tickets and go to the games etc. What I wasn't counting on was $25 to park each game, now it's $27...so tack on another $250 for the season I had tickets and $270 this year. Parking does suck and to me anyone who dismisses that must enjoy setting money on fire too.

I'll agree that Cassel is overpaid. I've gone around this discussion with some and to most it doesn't matter. So at this point I'd agree that there's no point in doing this...

:beat_DeadHorse:

[OPLookn]

I want one of you guys who say that Cassel is holding us back to tell me what our record would be this year with a better quarterback. It wouldn't have made a difference in the first 2 games because the whole team played horrible. We still won the last 3 games even with Cassel.

The only game where it might have made a difference was in San Diego. Even then we probably would have had to settle for a FG to tie the game and there is no guarantee we would have won in overtime. I would argue that one of the biggest reasons we even had a chance to win that game was because of Cassel's good play in the 2nd half.

There is a small possibility that we might have one more win this year with a better QB, but we might have won that game with better play at several other positions as well. Cassel is not the problem with the Chiefs and a better QB wouldn't give us any more wins, IMO.

I like this game, I'll play the what if game too. What if the other QB who's better than Cassel as you said, has been playing with Bowe, reads defenses and can throw accurate passes leads us down the field to throw the winning touchdown.

You're throwing out speculation and acting as if it has no bearing. I'll give you another scenario since it's just one game. Take any game we won last year in our 10-6 season and reverse the outcome..we're 9-7 and San Diego would be divisional champs.

Bottom line is we have an average and inaccurate deep ball throwing QB that threw the INT to stop the winning drive. We have no clue how over the course of the season that win will or won't help us repeat as division champs.

[Three7s]

I want one of you guys who say that Cassel is holding us back to tell me what our record would be this year with a better quarterback. It wouldn't have made a difference in the first 2 games because the whole team played horrible. We still won the last 3 games even with Cassel.

The only game where it might have made a difference was in San Diego. Even then we probably would have had to settle for a FG to tie the game and there is no guarantee we would have won in overtime. I would argue that one of the biggest reasons we even had a chance to win that game was because of Cassel's good play in the 2nd half.

There is a small possibility that we might have one more win this year with a better QB, but we might have won that game with better play at several other positions as well. Cassel is not the problem with the Chiefs and a better QB wouldn't give us any more wins, IMO.
Cassel was awful against Buffalo and Detroit and it's not because the whole team was inept. Cassel made history with the lowest net yardage per attempt with at least 20 attempts. 4 yards per pass is an absolute joke. That against Buffalo.

Then, the following week against Detroit, he follows up that disaster by forcing stupid throws resulting in 3 picks, which lead to a large amount of Detroit's 48 points. Don't forget his fumble, which also lead to a TD. Then he goes and loses the game against SD.

If we had a better QB, no doubt, we'd have won against SD. Maybe not against Buffalo and Detroit, but we may have been a bit more competitive.

As for Peyton Manning getting a pass, did you see who he was playing with last year? I'd love to see how he would've done with Bowe, Charles, and Moeaki.

[chief31]

Cassel was awful against Buffalo and Detroit and it's not because the whole team was inept. Cassel made history with the lowest net yardage per attempt with at least 20 attempts. 4 yards per pass is an absolute joke. That against Buffalo.

Then, the following week against Detroit, he follows up that disaster by forcing stupid throws resulting in 3 picks, which lead to a large amount of Detroit's 48 points. Don't forget his fumble, which also lead to a TD. Then he goes and loses the game against SD.

If we had a better QB, no doubt, we'd have won against SD. Maybe not against Buffalo and Detroit, but we may have been a bit more competitive.

As for Peyton Manning getting a pass, did you see who he was playing with last year? I'd love to see how he would've done with Bowe, Charles, and Moeaki.

Cassel was not awful in those games. He was slightly below average.

The rest of the team was awful though.

This is a team that had become a cellar-dweller, and Cassel has led us to 13-9 in the past year and change.

Guys who were enormous underachievers prior to Cassel and Haley's arrival have performed like superstars with them.

I think most of you are misled by the style of offense that we run, with the rushing attack and short, quick passes, thinking that the smaller passing statistics mean the QB is bad.

[TopekaRoy]

Not to try and be a d*ck or anything but parking fees seriously suck. I had season tickets a few years back and not that I'm rolling in money but I stretched a bit because I wanted to have season tickets and go to the games etc. What I wasn't counting on was $25 to park each game, now it's $27...so tack on another $250 for the season I had tickets and $270 this year. Parking does suck and to me anyone who dismisses that must enjoy setting money on fire too.

I agree that the parking is ridiculously high. I think anything over $8 is too much but it doesn't really affect me because I can't afford to go to the games. Actually, I don't even have a car to park! And at the very least, season tickets should include a season parking pass. But seriously, how much lower do you think parking would be if Cassel was making, say, 4 or 6 million a year? I'm guessing not much.


...
You're throwing out speculation and acting as if it has no bearing.
...
Bottom line is we have an average and inaccurate deep ball throwing QB that threw the INT to stop the winning drive. We have no clue how over the course of the season that win will or won't help us repeat as division champs.
You are speculating, too when you call it "the game winning drive." We don't know what would have happened if he had completed that pass or threw an incomplete pass. The Chiefs may have won, or they may have tied and lost in overtime, or someone may have fumbled the ball away on the next play. There were plenty of other players that day who cost us the game. You want to pin more blame on Cassel because he was the last Chief to touch the ball, but Bowe dropped several easy catches. The defense gave up too many big plays. Why is Cassel more responsible than anyone else for the loss? It is a team sport.

...

I think most of you are misled by the style of offense that we run, with the rushing attack and short, quick passes, thinking that the smaller passing statistics mean the QB is bad.

I think there is a lot of truth to this. Many fans (especially younger fans) are more impressed with the long pass-quick strike style of offensive play. They don't appreciate the advantages of a run heavy ball control offense.

Look at Green Bay. Statistically, they have a pretty bad defense. I'm convinced that a big part of the reason for that is because they score so quickly that the defense doesn't have time to rest. They can get away with it because of Aaron Rogers, and other very talented guys on offense. They score almost every time they get the ball. Most defenses don't have that luxury.

The Chiefs (like the Bears) win games when they keep opposing offenses of the field as much as possible. This keeps their defense fresh and allows them to get the stops when they do come in.

It's not as flashy a style of play and it won't get as many points for your fantasy geeks but when executed well, it works.

Cassel's yards per pass is low because this style of offense dictates a lot of short passes. The passing game is almost an extension of the running game. You only need 4 yds per play to consistently move the chains.

[2010chiefs]

I want one of you guys who say that Cassel is holding us back to tell me what our record would be this year with a better quarterback. It wouldn't have made a difference in the first 2 games because the whole team played horrible. We still won the last 3 games even with Cassel.

The only game where it might have made a difference was in San Diego. Even then we probably would have had to settle for a FG to tie the game and there is no guarantee we would have won in overtime. I would argue that one of the biggest reasons we even had a chance to win that game was because of Cassel's good play in the 2nd half.

There is a small possibility that we might have one more win this year with a better QB, but we might have won that game with better play at several other positions as well. Cassel is not the problem with the Chiefs and a better QB wouldn't give us any more wins, IMO.



You do realize that when your defense is on the field the whole game because your QB can't get the team down the field or continues to turn the ball over. The outcome becomes a disaster for them like in the first two games. In San Diego, the defense held there ground and of course CASSEL DID NOT!

[doobs_05]

You do realize that when your defense is on the field the whole game because your QB can't get the team down the field or continues to turn the ball over. The outcome becomes a disaster for them like in the first two games. In San Diego, the defense held there ground and of course CASSEL DID NOT!

qft!

[TopekaRoy]

You do realize that when your defense is on the field the whole game because your QB can't get the team down the field or continues to turn the ball over. The outcome becomes a disaster for them like in the first two games. In San Diego, the defense held there ground and of course CASSEL DID NOT!
You're making my point for me as to why Cassel is a good QB for this offense. His style of play allows for longer, more time consuming drives and that helps keep the offense fresh. You say the offense held their ground? lets look at those first 3 games.

In game 1 McCluster fumbled the opening kickoff at the Chiefs 26 and the Bills took advantage of the short field to score a quick TD before Cassel ever touched the ball. That wasn't Matt's fault. In the Chiefs first 3 drives, they ran the ball 6 times for 9 yds. That wasn't Matt's fault either. The Chiefs have to establish the run to be effective passing the ball but because of poor O-line play they couldn't run the ball and Cassel had no time to pass. That wasn't Matt's fault. The defense gave up two TDs in the first quarter (while they were still "fresh") and the Chiefs were forced to abandon the run down 14-0. Again, not Matt's fault.

In game 2 the Lions scored on their opening drive (against our "fresh" defense) and the Chiefs were down 7-0 again before Cassel ever touched the ball. On the Chiefs 1st possession they ran the ball 6 times for 65 yds to set up a FG. Cassel never threw the ball. What did he do wrong there? Jamaal Charles was injured on the last play of that drive and without him the Chiefs never scored again, but the Chiefs offense held the ball for 10:06 to the Lions 4:54 in the first quarter so they were moving the ball.

In the 3rd game The defense gave up 10 points in the 2nd quarter, 7 in the 3rd when the Chiefs scored 7 and only 3 in the 4th when the Chiefs scored 10, so you are right: the defense held their ground. What you are missing though is the fact that the defense was able to play better as the game went on because the Cassel led offense was keeping them off the field. You blame Cassel for not coming through when you should be giving him credit for helping the defense stay fresh.

The fact is that in the last 3 1/2 games, both the offense and defense has played better and Cassel deserves some of the credit for the improvement of both. O line and the Defensive secondary also deserve a lot of the credit for their improved play.

[KristofLaw]

Damn, that was a good post TopekaRoy.

[azchiefsfan]

You're making my point for me as to why Cassel is a good QB for this offense. His style of play allows for longer, more time consuming drives and that helps keep the offense fresh. You say the offense held their ground? lets look at those first 3 games.

In game 1 McCluster fumbled the opening kickoff at the Chiefs 26 and the Bills took advantage of the short field to score a quick TD before Cassel ever touched the ball. That wasn't Matt's fault. In the Chiefs first 3 drives, they ran the ball 6 times for 9 yds. That wasn't Matt's fault either. The Chiefs have to establish the run to be effective passing the ball but because of poor O-line play they couldn't run the ball and Cassel had no time to pass. That wasn't Matt's fault. The defense gave up two TDs in the first quarter (while they were still "fresh") and the Chiefs were forced to abandon the run down 14-0. Again, not Matt's fault.

In game 2 the Lions scored on their opening drive (against our "fresh" defense) and the Chiefs were down 7-0 again before Cassel ever touched the ball. On the Chiefs 1st possession they ran the ball 6 times for 65 yds to set up a FG. Cassel never threw the ball. What did he do wrong there? Jamaal Charles was injured on the last play of that drive and without him the Chiefs never scored again, but the Chiefs offense held the ball for 10:06 to the Lions 4:54 in the first quarter so they were moving the ball.

In the 3rd game The defense gave up 10 points in the 2nd quarter, 7 in the 3rd when the Chiefs scored 7 and only 3 in the 4th when the Chiefs scored 10, so you are right: the defense held their ground. What you are missing though is the fact that the defense was able to play better as the game went on because the Cassel led offense was keeping them off the field. You blame Cassel for not coming through when you should be giving him credit for helping the defense stay fresh.

The fact is that in the last 3 1/2 games, both the offense and defense has played better and Cassel deserves some of the credit for the improvement of both. O line and the Defensive secondary also deserve a lot of the credit for their improved play.

Exactly! The offensive playbook was geared for running the ball hard and throw when they need to. Once Charles was hurt, the quick squirt-n-run was gone and run after run was stuffed, so Cassel quickly became the go-to guy and their defense knew it and Cassel started wearing linebackers and linemen like a fine tailored suit. Haley has made the needed adjustments and we are winning as Cassel becomes the key to our offense again AND just as important, Battle has come alive and started the quick-run threat we had in Charles. WE WILL GET BETTER AS THE SEASON PROGRESSES! We will, ahem, "matriculate the ball down the field" again.

[Three7s]

You're making my point for me as to why Cassel is a good QB for this offense. His style of play allows for longer, more time consuming drives and that helps keep the offense fresh. You say the offense held their ground? lets look at those first 3 games.

In game 1 McCluster fumbled the opening kickoff at the Chiefs 26 and the Bills took advantage of the short field to score a quick TD before Cassel ever touched the ball. That wasn't Matt's fault. In the Chiefs first 3 drives, they ran the ball 6 times for 9 yds. That wasn't Matt's fault either. The Chiefs have to establish the run to be effective passing the ball but because of poor O-line play they couldn't run the ball and Cassel had no time to pass. That wasn't Matt's fault. The defense gave up two TDs in the first quarter (while they were still "fresh") and the Chiefs were forced to abandon the run down 14-0. Again, not Matt's fault.

In game 2 the Lions scored on their opening drive (against our "fresh" defense) and the Chiefs were down 7-0 again before Cassel ever touched the ball. On the Chiefs 1st possession they ran the ball 6 times for 65 yds to set up a FG. Cassel never threw the ball. What did he do wrong there? Jamaal Charles was injured on the last play of that drive and without him the Chiefs never scored again, but the Chiefs offense held the ball for 10:06 to the Lions 4:54 in the first quarter so they were moving the ball.

In the 3rd game The defense gave up 10 points in the 2nd quarter, 7 in the 3rd when the Chiefs scored 7 and only 3 in the 4th when the Chiefs scored 10, so you are right: the defense held their ground. What you are missing though is the fact that the defense was able to play better as the game went on because the Cassel led offense was keeping them off the field. You blame Cassel for not coming through when you should be giving him credit for helping the defense stay fresh.

The fact is that in the last 3 1/2 games, both the offense and defense has played better and Cassel deserves some of the credit for the improvement of both. O line and the Defensive secondary also deserve a lot of the credit for their improved play.
Yeah, he sure helped them stay fresh by not getting a first down well into the 2nd quarter.

[chiefnut]

I never was to thrilled we got cassel but admitted last year he did a surprisingly good job, however this year he has no look so good. in any style offense it is the QBs job to make first downs and score TDs whether thru dink and dunk or via the big play. this year cassel has not been effecient in the CHIEFS style offense not because he is not putting up big fantasy #s but because he is not sustaining drives or making the plays when needed.

[TopekaRoy]

Exactly! The offensive playbook was geared for running the ball hard and throw when they need to. Once Charles was hurt, the quick squirt-n-run was gone and run after run was stuffed, so Cassel quickly became the go-to guy and their defense knew it and Cassel started wearing linebackers and linemen like a fine tailored suit. Haley has made the needed adjustments and we are winning as Cassel becomes the key to our offense again AND just as important, Battle has come alive and started the quick-run threat we had in Charles. WE WILL GET BETTER AS THE SEASON PROGRESSES! We will, ahem, "matriculate the ball down the field" again.
You obviously "get it." Rep!

[TopekaRoy]

Yeah, he sure helped them stay fresh by not getting a first down well into the 2nd quarter.
In the first quarter the Chiefs only ran 6 offensive plays. 2 of them were passes and Cassel completed both. The 2nd drive was killed by a 10 yd holding penalty on Pope. Matt didn't do that.

But you are right. When the offense finally started clicking in the 2nd half and the defense had time to rest, they started playing better, so yeah, Cassel "helped them stay fresh."

[TopekaRoy]

First paragraph should have said:


You're making my point for me as to why Cassel is a good QB for this offense. His style of play allows for longer, more time consuming drives and that helps keep the defense fresh. You say the defense held their ground? Lets look at those first 3 games.

[OPLookn]

I agree that the parking is ridiculously high. I think anything over $8 is too much but it doesn't really affect me because I can't afford to go to the games. Actually, I don't even have a car to park! And at the very least, season tickets should include a season parking pass. But seriously, how much lower do you think parking would be if Cassel was making, say, 4 or 6 million a year? I'm guessing not much.

As I said the city is the one that gets the money from parking so Cassel could be making a dollar a season and it still wouldn't be lower because the Chiefs aren't the ones that get the parking money.

The other thing to take away is that the more parking costs are raised the more people will say the heck with it and not buy season tickets or go to the game. That will lead to black outs which will affect you. I agree with you though, anything over $8 is too much.



You are speculating, too when you call it "the game winning drive." We don't know what would have happened if he had completed that pass or threw an incomplete pass. The Chiefs may have won, or they may have tied and lost in overtime, or someone may have fumbled the ball away on the next play. There were plenty of other players that day who cost us the game. You want to pin more blame on Cassel because he was the last Chief to touch the ball, but Bowe dropped several easy catches. The defense gave up too many big plays. Why is Cassel more responsible than anyone else for the loss? It is a team sport.


I'm not speculating at all...a TD wins the game hence "the game winning drive". After the turnover San Diego took a couple of knees and the game was over. You're arguing semantics..."possible game tying/winning drive". Better?

Yeah, I do blame the turnover that lost us the chance at winning the game on Cassel as he's the one that threw the ball. If the RB or whoever had the ball would have fumbled it he'd have gotten the blame. As for saying it's a team game yeah it is. I've never seen an offensive lineman have the stat of pass completions or int's though. Nothing directly affects the outcome of a game more than when something goes horribly wrong (a pick, fumble, whatever). Cassel should have recognized the throw wasn't there and not thrown the ball. So yeah, it was HIS fault.

[Hayvern]

I think most of you are misled by the style of offense that we run, with the rushing attack and short, quick passes, thinking that the smaller passing statistics mean the QB is bad.



This implies that the offense they are running is meant to be this type of offense. I am sorry, but if you are going to call that lame screen pass 5 times or more per game for a loss, you are not executing something correctly.

What I mean by that is I don't think all of these short pass plays are meant to be short plays at all, I think these plays turn into short plays that resemble a screen pass because Cassel is getting Happy Feet.

I would think if you were actually going to call a screen pass, the execution of blockers would be better than what we are seeing.

[OPLookn]

This implies that the offense they are running is meant to be this type of offense. I am sorry, but if you are going to call that lame screen pass 5 times or more per game for a loss, you are not executing something correctly.

What I mean by that is I don't think all of these short pass plays are meant to be short plays at all, I think these plays turn into short plays that resemble a screen pass because Cassel is getting Happy Feet.

I would think if you were actually going to call a screen pass, the execution of blockers would be better than what we are seeing.

My football IQ might not be the best here but isn't the RB on a wheel route out of the backfield the last possible read/safety valve for a QB? I'd agree that if they're screens you'd think the blocking would be done differently.

Not to mention that running that play that many times is going to make a defense play up close too. Stack the box and tell your LB'ers if the ball isn't run in the first few seconds then work your way to the outside for the dump off. If it's luring them up for the deep ball I'd have to say that you need a QB that can throw an accurate deep ball.

[C Louie]

I think we all need to get over this. Cassel is our QB and we have to live with it. He is no Tom Brady but hey it could be worse (Damon Huard, Brodie Croyle...) and I really don't think Cassel is going anywhere.

[chief31]

This implies that the offense they are running is meant to be this type of offense. I am sorry, but if you are going to call that lame screen pass 5 times or more per game for a loss, you are not executing something correctly.

What I mean by that is I don't think all of these short pass plays are meant to be short plays at all, I think these plays turn into short plays that resemble a screen pass because Cassel is getting Happy Feet.

I would think if you were actually going to call a screen pass, the execution of blockers would be better than what we are seeing.

It is speculative on my part, just as is it on yours.

But, considering that we openly admitted to trying to get the ball to McCluster a certain number of times per game, I find it difficult to believe that a majority of the "screen passes" are not by design.

When one takes into account the level of Play Cassel was at last season, and compares it to the type of play he managed early this year, I don't get how any conclusion can be arrived at that doesn't focus on the coaching changes.

Did the QB change, or did the offensive game-planning change?

Well, the QB is the same. But the game-planning is being done by someone different.

How does anybody come to the conclusion that the QB is the reason the offense looks so much different?

And, how do you expect the execution of the blocking to better, when all other execution of blocking had been completely terrible?

By the way, I am as thrilled as anyone could possibly be to see the blocking come together last week, and noticed Cassel's inability to be comfortable with the protection.

I think that will come with time, so long as the blocking can continue to provide a real pocket.

[TopekaRoy]

...
You're arguing semantics..."possible game tying/winning drive". Better? Yes. Much better! :D


... Cassel should have recognized the throw wasn't there and not thrown the ball. So yeah, it was HIS fault.I completely agree with you here that the interception was entirely his fault. I don't think he deserves the entire blame for the loss, though he certainly shares in the blame.


... I don't think all of these short pass plays are meant to be short plays at all, I think these plays turn into short plays that resemble a screen pass because Cassel is getting Happy Feet. ...


My football IQ might not be the best here but isn't the RB on a wheel route out of the backfield the last possible read/safety valve for a QB? I'd agree that if they're screens you'd think the blocking would be done differently.
I agree with you both. The Chiefs do run a lot of short pass plays by design, but many of those are 3rd oprion/last chance plays. This was happening more early in the season when teams could double team Bowe because he was the only threat and the o-line wasn't giving Cassel enough time for the play to develop. When Breaston started coming through, Battle started getting more yards and the O-line started protecting better the situation improved dramatically. Cassel had 3 straight games with a QB rating over 100 (before facing a very good Raiders secondary) and the Chiefs started winning games.

If the O-line continues to improve and Baldwin starts to make his mark this could be a very good offfense. Imagine how much better it would be with Charles in the game.

[Three7s]

I've already argued with you enough as far as the "Cassel sucks" topic, but saying that the Raiders secondary is "very good" is not a true statement. According to nfl.com, the Raiders give up 266 passing yards per game. That puts them at 25th in the league. So no, they're definitely not good at defending the pass.

[TopekaRoy]

... saying that the Raiders secondary is "very good" is not a true statement.

My mistake. They were ranked 2nd in the NFL against the pass last year, so I assumed they were still pretty good. Of course that was when they had Asomugha. I didn't realize they had dropped so far, so fast. New England and Houston may have skewed their stats a bit, but they are nowhere near as good as they were last year.

I stand corrected.

[Hayvern]

It is speculative on my part, just as is it on yours.

But, considering that we openly admitted to trying to get the ball to McCluster a certain number of times per game, I find it difficult to believe that a majority of the "screen passes" are not by design.

When one takes into account the level of Play Cassel was at last season, and compares it to the type of play he managed early this year, I don't get how any conclusion can be arrived at that doesn't focus on the coaching changes.

Did the QB change, or did the offensive game-planning change?

Well, the QB is the same. But the game-planning is being done by someone different.

How does anybody come to the conclusion that the QB is the reason the offense looks so much different?

And, how do you expect the execution of the blocking to better, when all other execution of blocking had been completely terrible?

By the way, I am as thrilled as anyone could possibly be to see the blocking come together last week, and noticed Cassel's inability to be comfortable with the protection.

I think that will come with time, so long as the blocking can continue to provide a real pocket.



Sure, it is speculation.

I also see that Cassel is the same QB this year as he was last year. The Chiefs would like to run the same offense this year that they did last year, but that is not going to happen without Charles in the lineup. So now you are left with an aging Jones and a perennial backup in Battle. No real threat there, so where does the threat come from?

Well now it has to come from the receivers, but without a QB who can hit those guys more than 6 yards down the field, the offense is anemic. I think that is what we see.

The other thing to remember, and I commented on this before, I think Cassel is ruined, we have had such a horrible offensive line since he has come here that he has trained himself to take the safety valve.

By the way, for those who say we should all shut up and quit talking about this, I thought this was what this board was for. I certainly read through enough idiotic mock drafts in the offseason.

[2010chiefs]

Sure, it is speculation.

I also see that Cassel is the same QB this year as he was last year. The Chiefs would like to run the same offense this year that they did last year, but that is not going to happen without Charles in the lineup. So now you are left with an aging Jones and a perennial backup in Battle. No real threat there, so where does the threat come from?

Well now it has to come from the receivers, but without a QB who can hit those guys more than 6 yards down the field, the offense is anemic. I think that is what we see.

The other thing to remember, and I commented on this before, I think Cassel is ruined, we have had such a horrible offensive line since he has come here that he has trained himself to take the safety valve.

By the way, for those who say we should all shut up and quit talking about this, I thought this was what this board was for. I certainly read through enough idiotic mock drafts in the offseason.



AMEN to that! I think optimism is a good thing, don't get me wrong but some of you that defend Cassel go beyond optimism when it's clear that he sucks more games the he doesn't and still say he's a great QB. WOW!

[Boxermm187]

i like Cassel!

[tornadospotter]

Arrowhead, MNF, Halloween! This could indeed be a Nightmare! They only thing better would be a rainstorm! Hahaaaaaah!!!!!! dolts should be afraid!
Moonlight ft Halloween theme and Howling Wolves - YouTube

[deadmeat]

:efpge:
Another lack luster performance by the 60 million dollar man. I know a bunch of you are going to respond in defense of him but ask yourself this. Has his performance over the past 2 seasons justified his salary? He will have made 40 million by the end of the season. I personally have not seen ANYTHING to justify this.

[deadmeat]

check it out the man[matt cassel has more know how on getting the job done than most of you idiots know about working a remote.It's a team sport and when everyone is on the same page then things are sweet,if not and you don't like it changethe channel.You could always ask him for his job.GO CHIEFS

[Three7s]

check it out the man[matt cassel has more know how on getting the job done than most of you idiots know about working a remote.It's a team sport and when everyone is on the same page then things are sweet,if not and you don't like it changethe channel.You could always ask him for his job.GO CHIEFS
Oh great, another "true fan" who comes on here saying we should praise the all-mighty Cassel and that everything he does is perfect. What's the point of having a forum if there isn't any contradictory opinions?

[chief31]

AMEN to that! I think optimism is a good thing, don't get me wrong but some of you that defend Cassel go beyond optimism when it's clear that he sucks more games the he doesn't and still say he's a great QB. WOW!

Has anybody actually even said "he's great"? But I have seen plenty of people say that he is worthless.

Neither is realistic.

I am one of Cassel's top defenders here. And that's only against the unevenly harsh criticism.

The reason Cassel gets so much extra leeway from me is bacause I fully expected him to be worthless, just like so many others, but he made fools of us.

He played exceptionally well in leading what had been a horrible team to the division crown and a 10-6 record.

Now.....

Having seen that I was wrong about what he is capable with this team, I fully admit that he can do far better than what I gave him credit for.

Too many people just refuse to be wrong, rather there is proof they are, or not.

And, when considering the terrible hand that he has been dealt, I find it impossible to not give him a lot of respect for what he has accomplished.


Oh great, another "true fan" who comes on here saying we should praise the all-mighty Cassel and that everything he does is perfect. What's the point of having a forum if there isn't any contradictory opinions?

Quote where someone said "everything he does is perfect".

That kind of "arguing" is the sign of a total failure to present a real case.

If nobody has said that, then who do you think you are debating?

[Three7s]

You know what I meant chief31. You've known me long enough to be able to read into my posts, rather than take them literally.

You honestly expect me to listen to a brand new member who decides to post in this thread with an insult and saying we should change the channel just because we think Cassel sucks? Sorry, but that won't sit well with me.

[TopekaRoy]

Has anybody actually even said "he's great"? But I have seen plenty of people say that he is worthless.

Neither is realistic.

Exactly. If anyone has said he is a great QB, then I missed that post. I've seen a couple who said he could be an elite QB with the right players around him, but nobody has said he is. I personally think that "elite" defines a very small group and it would be a stretch to say that Cassel will ever be in that group.

As you clearly understand, that is not what this debate is about. Some are saying he sucks, or he is a bad or below average QB. That is simply not true.

The question is not "is he great or does he suck?" The debate should be "Is he good enough to lead the Chiefs to a Superbowl?" I believe he is, or can be with the right weapons on offense. Those that disagree have made some legitimate arguments in their favor. He lacks accuracy on deep passes, lacks arm strength and checks down too quickly to his 2nd and 3rd options. I believe all of these things with the exception of arm strength can be overcome with more of a passing threat than just Bowe and better protection from the O-line. I think arm strength is overrated. Plenty of very good QBs rarely threw the ball over 20 yds or so.

I've enjoyed this thread and good points have been made on both sides, but if you want your argument to be taken seriously, you need to stay away from hyberbolic statements like "he sucks" or "he can't lead a comeback."

[SIC J]

You know what I meant chief31. You've known me long enough to be able to read into my posts, rather than take them literally.

You honestly expect me to listen to a brand new member who decides to post in this thread with an insult and saying we should change the channel just because we think Cassel sucks? Sorry, but that won't sit well with me.

What does being a new member have to do with anything?

[Three7s]

What does being a new member have to do with anything?
How would you feel if I just registered for this forum and criticized you for your opinion?

[2010chiefs]

First of all I said he sucked in most games this year. He might not suck overall but he does not play up to expectations. We all remember how well he played last year and I expected to at least see the same Cassel but IMO it's not even close so far. Maybe it's the schedule and the o-line on occasions however when the opportunity is there for him to take. HE DOESN'T!

[chief31]

You know what I meant chief31. You've known me long enough to be able to read into my posts, rather than take them literally.

You honestly expect me to listen to a brand new member who decides to post in this thread with an insult and saying we should change the channel just because we think Cassel sucks? Sorry, but that won't sit well with me.

You are guilty of the same thing that you are complaining about. Exaggerating another's point of view.


First of all I said he sucked in most games this year. He might not suck overall but he does not play up to expectations. We all remember how well he played last year and I expected to at least see the same Cassel but IMO it's not even close so far. Maybe it's the schedule and the o-line on occasions however when the opportunity is there for him to take. HE DOESN'T!

He has.

He has missed some. The Chargers game, obviously, and the Raiders game had Cassel missing golden opportunites.

But the previous two games he did very well.

AN ugly start, and some inconsistency should be expected, considering the change of OC and the absence of the biggest cog to last season's offense (Charles).

If he is unable to grow with the offense, should it continue to look better around him, then I would be willing to be more critical of him.

But, so far, all changes considered, he has done as well as I would expect of any QB.

[TopekaRoy]

You are guilty of the same thing that you are complaining about. Exaggerating another's point of view.



He has.

He has missed some. The Chargers game, obviously, and the Raiders game had Cassel missing golden opportunites.

But the previous two games he did very well.

AN ugly start, and some inconsistency should be expected, considering the change of OC and the absence of the biggest cog to last season's offense (Charles).

If he is unable to grow with the offense, should it continue to look better around him, then I would be willing to be more critical of him.

But, so far, all changes considered, he has done as well as I would expect of any QB.
Quit being so reasonable! You are just making excuses for him because it's the truth!

... I'm sorry. I got nuthin' :D

[Chiefster]

Has anybody actually even said "he's great"? But I have seen plenty of people say that he is worthless.

Neither is realistic.

I am one of Cassel's top defenders here. And that's only against the unevenly harsh criticism.

The reason Cassel gets so much extra leeway from me is bacause I fully expected him to be worthless, just like so many others, but he made fools of us.

He played exceptionally well in leading what had been a horrible team to the division crown and a 10-6 record.

Now.....

Having seen that I was wrong about what he is capable with this team, I fully admit that he can do far better than what I gave him credit for.

Too many people just refuse to be wrong, rather there is proof they are, or not.

And, when considering the terrible hand that he has been dealt, I find it impossible to not give him a lot of respect for what he has accomplished.



Quote where someone said "everything he does is perfect".

That kind of "arguing" is the sign of a total failure to present a real case.

If nobody has said that, then who do you think you are debating?

Oh there you go again presenting sound arguments and all! :D

...Good job!

[SIC J]

How would you feel if I just registered for this forum and criticized you for your opinion?

Again, what does being a new member have to do with anything? So peoples' opinion are now based off how many post you have? This is the type of crap that steers people from joining new forums.

EVERY ONE has to start somewhere. Just remember, YOU were one of those people as well at one point.


Back at the subject of Cassel. If you're expecting Cassel to be a Brady, Manning, or Brees then just stop. Cassel is a GOOD "game manager". This subject has been talked about over and over again.

I got to witness first hand last week Cassel play the Raiders. He has improved a LOT to me with back shoulder and slant passes. If he can keep those 2 passes up and on point, the Chiefs offense to run just fine.

Oh and I remember the other week they mentioned something pretty interesting as well about the Chiefs. They said the Chiefs were the WORST in the nfl in 3rd and short but the BEST at 3rd in long. That means Cassel is hitting the longer passes which is a big confidence booster for him.

[2010chiefs]

You are guilty of the same thing that you are complaining about. Exaggerating another's point of view.



He has.

He has missed some. The Chargers game, obviously, and the Raiders game had Cassel missing golden opportunites.

But the previous two games he did very well.

AN ugly start, and some inconsistency should be expected, considering the change of OC and the absence of the biggest cog to last season's offense (Charles).

If he is unable to grow with the offense, should it continue to look better around him, then I would be willing to be more critical of him.

But, so far, all changes considered, he has done as well as I would expect of any QB.


AS WELL AS YOU EXPECT FROM ANY QB MAKING 60 MILLION. NO WAY!

[Three7s]

Okay, maybe he doesn't "suck", but I think after nearly two decades without a playoff win, it's about time to get an "elite" QB, not one that can just do enough to not screw everything up.

I know I'll get blasted for it, but if this running game doesn't start doing better, it could be a long road for the whole Chiefs offense. (yes, I know we're 7th in the league in rushing, but the fact that Arenas was used as a gimmick to get a TD says something)

[Chiefster]

Okay, maybe he doesn't "suck", but I think after nearly two decades without a playoff win, it's about time to get an "elite" QB, not one that can just do enough to not screw everything up.

I know I'll get blasted for it, but if this running game doesn't start doing better, it could be a long road for the whole Chiefs offense. (yes, I know we're 7th in the league in rushing, but the fact that Arenas was used as a gimmick to get a TD says something)

We incorporated good old fashioned ingenuity??? :D

j/k

[SIC J]

Okay, maybe he doesn't "suck", but I think after nearly two decades without a playoff win, it's about time to get an "elite" QB, not one that can just do enough to not screw everything up.

I know I'll get blasted for it, but if this running game doesn't start doing better, it could be a long road for the whole Chiefs offense. (yes, I know we're 7th in the league in rushing, but the fact that Arenas was used as a gimmick to get a TD says something)

Uhhhhh Trent played like an "elite" QB with the Chiefs 6 years ago......

[tornadospotter]

Pretty sure the name is "I am sofa king."

Like "I am sofa king stoned that I can't type."


http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2011/10/20.jpg


:lol:

I read it as "I am so faking" as well.

Maybe he should have typed it like this :"IAmSofaKing" or something...





So far as post count, we may all be right!

[Three7s]

Uhhhhh Trent played like an "elite" QB with the Chiefs 6 years ago......
Trent was good but not quite elite imo. I would only count two of his years in the elite category.

[ctchiefsfan]

WHO CARES how much money Cassel makes???? It's not like he is costing us cap space and keeping us from getting or keeping quality players. How much Cassel gets paid is between Cassel's agent, Pioli and Hunt.

Like any other Chiefs fan, I wish we had someone of the caliber of Montana, Staubach, Elway or any of the other elite QBs from the past. BUT WE DON'T!!! What we have is Cassel!

If you think Cassel is the wrong QB for the Chiefs, then complain about Pioli, NOT Cassel

Meantime, with Cassel as QB we won the AFC West last year and in 2 days we'll be playing for a share of 1st place in the AFC West! And we're doing it with both Charles and Moeaki out for the year. Pretty impressive as far as I am concerned.

I'd be real interested to hear who the Cassel haters think we should pick up to replace Cassel......

Until I hear that then all these complaints are just WHINING!!!!

And :ninerssuck::ninerssuck::ninerssuck::ninerssuck::n inerssuck:

:chiefs::chiefs::chiefs::chiefs:

[azchiefsfan]

I am still firmly behind Cassel. I would add, however, that he has shown "elite" skills many times. But then there are other times he looks like he is going for the Brodie Croyle Award of Incompetence. I think it is his nervousness from his first season here and getting the shiite kicked out of him every snap. I want desperately for the elite Cassel to show up every game and I really think he can and will as our whole offense improves. But I won't discount, completely, those who are genuinely upset by the not-so-elite Cassel. I just think we all need to rally behind him and expect great things. There is something to the power of positive thinking.

[Three7s]

WHO CARES how much money Cassel makes???? It's not like he is costing us cap space and keeping us from getting or keeping quality players. How much Cassel gets paid is between Cassel's agent, Pioli and Hunt.

Like any other Chiefs fan, I wish we had someone of the caliber of Montana, Staubach, Elway or any of the other elite QBs from the past. BUT WE DON'T!!! What we have is Cassel!

If you think Cassel is the wrong QB for the Chiefs, then complain about Pioli, NOT Cassel

Meantime, with Cassel as QB we won the AFC West last year and in 2 days we'll be playing for a share of 1st place in the AFC West! And we're doing it with both Charles and Moeaki out for the year. Pretty impressive as far as I am concerned.

I'd be real interested to hear who the Cassel haters think we should pick up to replace Cassel......

Until I hear that then all these complaints are just WHINING!!!!

And :ninerssuck::ninerssuck::ninerssuck::ninerssuck::n inerssuck:

:chiefs::chiefs::chiefs::chiefs:

After the first two games, I would've said Andrew Luck. That won't be happening now, so it'll probably be Cassel until he starts doing terrible or Stanzi is ready.

[SIC J]

Trent was good but not quite elite imo. I would only count two of his years in the elite category.

OK well there you go. In those 2 years having an "elite" qb wasn't the "answer" to winning a Super Bowl was it?

[ctchiefsfan]

I've nothing against us seeking an "elite" QB through the draft. I think we SHOULD!!!!

But complaining about Cassel is POINTLESS. He is what we have unless and until we draft one or can get one the way we did Montana.

[SIC J]

I've nothing against us seeking an "elite" QB through the draft. I think we SHOULD!!!!

But complaining about Cassel is POINTLESS. He is what we have unless and until we draft one or can get one the way we did Montana.

I agree. Teams are ALWAYS and SHOULD seek an "elite" qb. But it's the answer to a Super Bowl. It's just 1 piece of the puzzle. But to say Cassel sucks or is horrible is complete nonsense. If the Chiefs continue to run their offense the way they have been the last 3 1/2 games, Cassel can be a top 5 QB this season and a top 10 for sure. Just like last year.

[azchiefsfan]

After watching the third Stanford game this season all I can say is I believe Luck will be a bust in the NFL. He is the most over-hyped QB in college football since Tim Tebow. He is the beneficiary of VERY friendly officiating and receivers who catch junk ball after junk ball. The wonder of Stanford is not the QB, it is the receivers. I can't wait until he plays a secondary like LSU or Oklahoma. He will have 10 interception in one game. The guy has some mobility but, as a quarterback, is a loose cannon with receivers who work miracles.

[TopekaRoy]

I don't think he ix as good as he is being made out to be but i don't think he will be a bust. I watched him tonight for the first time and I wasn't too impressed with him either ... until about the middle of the 3rd quartered when he engineered 3 straight scoring drives for 2 TDs and a FG. During that stretch I saw a QB with the knowledge of Payton Manning, the pinpoint quick passing of an Aaron Rodgers, the mobility of a Michael Vick and the size/strength of Big Ben or Cam Newton.

On the other hand, he does have some excellent receivers, a balanced run/pass attack and USC was by far the best team they played this year. He benefitted from a couple of questionable pass interference and unnecessary roughness penalties but, looking at the replays, I thought they were all "technically" good calls.

He calls his own plays which is almost unheard of at the college level, and I thought he did a good job of mixing it up.

I still think he is overhyped, but very good. On the other hand, I thought the same thing about Cam Newton and aside ftom being prone to interceptions,he's performed much better than I thought he would.

The bad news for Luck is that whoever gets him will have a bad offense to put around him and probably a new coach and offensive coordinator. Unless the Colts get him he will be expected to start his rookie year and it may be tough going for him for a couple of years.

[azchiefsfan]

I don't think he ix as good as he is being made out to be but i don't think he will be a bust. I watched him tonight for the first time and I wasn't too impressed with him either ... until about the middle of the 3rd quartered when he engineered 3 straight scoring drives for 2 TDs and a FG. During that stretch I saw a QB with the knowledge of Payton Manning, the pinpoint quick passing of an Aaron Rodgers, the mobility of a Michael Vick and the size/strength of Big Ben or Cam Newton.

On the other hand, he does have some excellent receivers, a balanced run/pass attack and USC was by far the best team they played this year. He benefitted from a couple of questionable pass interference and unnecessary roughness penalties but, looking at the replays, I thought they were all "technically" good calls.

He calls his own plays which is almost unheard of at the college level, and I thought he did a good job of mixing it up.

I still think he is overhyped, but very good. On the other hand, I thought the same thing about Cam Newton and aside ftom being prone to interceptions,he's performed much better than I thought he would.

The bad news for Luck is that whoever gets him will have a bad offense to put around him and probably a new coach and offensive coordinator. Unless the Colts get him he will be expected to start his rookie year and it may be tough going for him for a couple of years.

When all 5 of his linemen had the D line in headlocks, were tackling defensive linemen and the passes were under 10 yards and he had 10 seconds or more to find a receiver, yeah he could really throw an accurate pass.

[iamsofaking]

I am sofa king.

[TopekaRoy]

I am sofa king.
Without a car I am "Man Out Wall King!" :D

[deadmeat]

Don't care then don't watch.The scariiest halloween I've had in years.GO CHIEFS:efpge:

[chief31]

Don't care then don't watch.The scariiest halloween I've had in years.GO CHIEFS:efpge:

That's a great observation. It has been a very long time since I got scared at Halloween.

Tonight did it though.

[Three7s]

I'll admit it tonight. Cassel wasn't just "okay", he was good tonight, despite the 2 INTs.

[lovenflrefs1]

Cassel was good when it mattered and I think that's what counts. Yes it would be nice to put up a lot of points like the Saints or Green Bay, but that's just not KC style football and it really hasn't been for as long as I can remember. We have all known KC for being the type of team to win a lot of games by less than a touchdown, as proven tonight.

The unfortunate thing about this game though, will be everyone talking about Rivers and his fumble near the end of the game, while in easy field goal range, instead of the Chiefs defense only allowing the Chargers to 1 touchdown.

[TopekaRoy]

The unfortunate thing about this game though, will be everyone talking about Rivers and his fumble near the end of the game, while in easy field goal range, instead of the Chiefs defense only allowing the Chargers to 1 touchdown.
You're right. That will be all they talk about. What won't be talked about (and should be) is that the Chargers won the toss and had a chance to win the game in overtime. But the Chiefs held them to 3 and out and then our offense marched right down the field to set up the winning FG.

They deserve a lot of credit for that.

[chief31]

Cassel was good when it mattered and I think that's what counts. Yes it would be nice to put up a lot of points like the Saints or Green Bay, but that's just not KC style football and it really hasn't been for as long as I can remember. We have all known KC for being the type of team to win a lot of games by less than a touchdown, as proven tonight.

I think you are forgetting something....

NFL Stats: by Team Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2005&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

NFL Stats: by Team Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=true&conference=null&role=TM&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&season=2004&seasonType=REG&tabSeq=2&qualified=true&Submit=Go)

NFL Stats: by Team Category (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=TOTAL_POINTS_SCORED&tabSeq=2&season=2003&role=TM&Submit=Go&archive=true&conference=null&defensiveStatisticCategory=null&qualified=true)

Once upon a time....

[Chiefster]

I did not have any real issues with Cassell's play tonight.

[lovenflrefs1]

You're right. That will be all they talk about. What won't be talked about (and should be) is that the Chargers won the toss and had a chance to win the game in overtime. But the Chiefs held them to 3 and out and then our offense marched right down the field to set up the winning FG.

They deserve a lot of credit for that.

I totally agree. A lot of what you heard from Gruden, Jaws, and the rest of the ESPN post game show guys, was Chargers this, Chargers that, Rivers this, Rivers that. You finally get a break when they show the Haley interview (although shorter than Norv's) and talk with Cassel.

On topic: I hope KC gets some trash time in an upcoming game and they let Stanzi get some snaps. I'm an Iowa fan and enjoyed watching him play and would much rather see him than Palco. I believe Stanzi is one of those guys that sits as a backup, has talent, doesn't see game time, but could be a good quarterback in the NFL (better than Tebow for sure).

[lovenflrefs1]

I think you are forgetting something....

Once upon a time....

Well, it was different when we had Trent Green, but you have to remember our defense wasn't that great. Yes it would be nice to have seasons like that all the time, but it usually doesn't happen like that.

[chief31]

Well, it was different when we had Trent Green, but you have to remember our defense wasn't that great. Yes it would be nice to have seasons like that all the time, but it usually doesn't happen like that.


Yeah, I hear ya. Just pointing out the little error here....


Yes it would be nice to put up a lot of points like the Saints or Green Bay, but that's just not KC style football and it really hasn't been for as long as I can remember.



Just trying to help jar your memory. :lol:

[lovenflrefs1]

Yeah, I hear ya. Just pointing out the little error here....



Just trying to help jar your memory. :lol:

I was thinking about putting "besides when we had Trent Green, Priest, Tony Richardson, Tony G., the best offensive line ever assembled, and Dante Hall tearing up the returns" but only being able to give one example made me sad. Even when we had Montana it was all about the defense.. Damn I miss that defense.

[chief31]

I was thinking about putting "besides when we had Trent Green, Priest, Tony Richardson, Tony G., the best offensive line ever assembled, and Dante Hall tearing up the returns" but only being able to give one example made me sad. Even when we had Montana it was all about the defense.. Damn I miss that defense.

:lol:

I am growing quite fond of the current defense. But I miss them too.

[lovenflrefs1]

:lol:

I am growing quite fond of the current defense. But I miss them too.

Your signature says it all, as I'm sure most of the people here adored DT and what he stood for, he along with Neil Smith, Dale Carter, Dan Saleamua, Albert Lewis, Kevin Ross, Tracy Simian, etc, did so much in the early-mid '90s, and they were great to watch. Just so disappointing they couldn't get passed game 1 of the playoffs, or beat Bills in the AFC Championship (just so you know, the Bills could lose AGAIN). Great times..

But with the current defense, they are making quite an impact and I'm looking forward to seeing how some of them mature this year and the coming years. Hopefully though, they get a defensive lineman who can actually rush the QB.

[chief31]

Your signature says it all, as I'm sure most of the people here adored DT and what he stood for, he along with Neil Smith, Dale Carter, Dan Saleamua, Albert Lewis, Kevin Ross, Tracy Simian, etc, did so much in the early-mid '90s, and they were great to watch. Just so disappointing they couldn't get passed game 1 of the playoffs, or beat Bills in the AFC Championship (just so you know, the Bills could lose AGAIN). Great times..

But with the current defense, they are making quite an impact and I'm looking forward to seeing how some of them mature this year and the coming years. Hopefully though, they get a defensive lineman who can actually rush the QB.

It was a defense for the ages.

Did you notice Marty in the booth? I think he wearing Chiefs red.

But I expect to start getting more pressure from the d-line before the season is up.

[lovenflrefs1]

It was a defense for the ages.

Did you notice Marty in the booth? I think he wearing Chiefs red.

But I expect to start getting more pressure from the d-line before the season is up.

LOL yeah Marty! We were like "WTF is Marty doing in the booth, wearing Chiefs colors?" Great coach, too bad he always seemed to choke in game 1 :)

They look like they are trying to show some hustle, but compared to some other teams, they just don't seem to get enough pressure up front. Last week against the Raiders though, you could have called almost every interception because of the pressure they got on the QBs. Tonight, they were just average and I think Tomba and Derrick saved them from being completely abysmal.

[chief31]

LOL yeah Marty! We were like "WTF is Marty doing in the booth, wearing Chiefs colors?" Great coach, too bad he always seemed to choke in game 1 :)

I don't blame him for all of that. The "prevent defense" was a bad idea. But some of those losses were completely on the players.

[Chiefster]

I don't blame him for all of that. The "prevent defense" was a bad idea. But some of those losses were completely on the players.

Yup! How many times have we seen the prevent defense prevent us from winning the game.

[OPLookn]

One of Cassel's INT's wasn't his fault, went right of Baldwin's hands and into Weddle's. Granted the pass was high but I was always told if you can get a hand on the football you can catch it.

LOVED the game although I about had a heart attack several times. The thing that concerned me was the changes in rhythm in the offense. Did anyone else notice that? How do you put up 10 points in the first quarter and then have one first down in the 2nd quarter and that came with 17 or 18 seconds left in the half. These inconsistent drives are killing us!

Anyway, McClain is looking like Johnny Carson calling 5-3 at the season half point and we're 4-3 right now. Wonder what the swammy is calling for the second half of the season? I REALLY like our chances to win the division. The Raiders will be better but we'll be at home in what more than likely will be a must win game. We split with the Chargers and as long as we show up against Denver I don't see it being a horrible call saying we'll go 2-0 against them. Win, 2 or 3 more and that puts at 9-7 or 10-6 which I think would win us the division.

Like the players have I'm starting to buy in this season after an abysmal start. I was mainly complaining about Cassel after the first 3 games and he's shown me enough to say give me the rest of my humble pie.

[SIC J]

One of Cassel's INT's wasn't his fault, went right of Baldwin's hands and into Weddle's. Granted the pass was high but I was always told if you can get a hand on the football you can catch it.

LOVED the game although I about had a heart attack several times. The thing that concerned me was the changes in rhythm in the offense. Did anyone else notice that? How do you put up 10 points in the first quarter and then have one first down in the 2nd quarter and that came with 17 or 18 seconds left in the half. These inconsistent drives are killing us!

Anyway, McClain is looking like Johnny Carson calling 5-3 at the season half point and we're 4-3 right now. Wonder what the swammy is calling for the second half of the season? I REALLY like our chances to win the division. The Raiders will be better but we'll be at home in what more than likely will be a must win game. We split with the Chargers and as long as we show up against Denver I don't see it being a horrible call saying we'll go 2-0 against them. Win, 2 or 3 more and that puts at 9-7 or 10-6 which I think would win us the division.

Like the players have I'm starting to buy in this season after an abysmal start. I was mainly complaining about Cassel after the first 3 games and he's shown me enough to say give me the rest of my humble pie.

Yeah I noticed it. I saw it in the 2nd quarter. The play calling went conservative. Chiefs have been winning games cuz they have been aggressive. If the Chiefs would've lost that game, that would've been the reason why. Why the heck would you switch to conservative play calling with only a 10 point lead?!?!

[OPLookn]

Yeah I noticed it. I saw it in the 2nd quarter. The play calling went conservative. Chiefs have been winning games cuz they have been aggressive. If the Chiefs would've lost that game, that would've been the reason why. Why the heck would you switch to conservative play calling with only a 10 point lead?!?!

No clue, the Chargers have one of the most dynamic and quick scoring offenses I've seen. A 10 pt lead is easily a 4 point deficit and that could be in a 3 or 4 minute time span.

All I know is moving forward we're going to need a consistent rhythm. Personally I love the fast paced, no huddle rhythm and we seem to move the ball down the field better that way. On a separate note, I wonder if Zorn is getting worked into offensive play calling. He sure did seem to be working with Cassel and the offense a lot last night or maybe I finally got to sit down and watch a game and see what he's normally doing....

[deadmeat]

I agree
on one thing last week was a little sad performance by him,but the man is getting the job done and as long as he's getting it done he's the man.If you relly don't like cassel the don't watch.Sorry but good or bad their my team and I stand by them not whine about them.GO CHIEFS:chiefs:

[azchiefsfan]

Whoa! I guess some folks watched a different game than I did on Monday. Cassel was throwing the ball short and long as good as anyone in the league. The two INTs were balls put where only the receiver could get it in his hands and were dropped. The 2 empty quarters were caused by Haley or whoever was calling plays at that time going into prevent offense-ala Schottaleadenheimer. Cassel doesn't call his own plays. He wants to air it out-that's what the argument with Haley was about. You think he's not sick of dump passes? If any of you haters actually watched the game, you would've noticed when given the green light he was throwing like a muthafudger. If Haley wants to go conservative, that's on him, but when Cassel was given the keys in OT, he got it done and done well against a(by the way) pretty darn good defense.

[Three7s]

Whoa! I guess some folks watched a different game than I did on Monday. Cassel was throwing the ball short and long as good as anyone in the league. The two INTs were balls put where only the receiver could get it in his hands and were dropped. The 2 empty quarters were caused by Haley or whoever was calling plays at that time going into prevent offense-ala Schottaleadenheimer. Cassel doesn't call his own plays. He wants to air it out-that's what the argument with Haley was about. You think he's not sick of dump passes? If any of you haters actually watched the game, you would've noticed when given the green light he was throwing like a muthafudger. If Haley wants to go conservative, that's on him, but when Cassel was given the keys in OT, he got it done and done well against a(by the way) pretty darn good defense.
The 2nd one wasn't the receivers fault. Cassel didn't get a full release because of the pressure and the ball sailed high and right into Weddle.

[chief31]

Cassel didn't get a full release because of the pressure

Should have gone to the message parlor. :D

[AkChief49]

Should have gone to the message parlor. :D
Not the happy ending he would have liked?

[Kc-ben]

Not a fan never have been. Wish I could run into him on the streets to tell how bad I think he sucks. Love my chiefs, HATE Castle! Not talking about todays loss, not all him yes. But still think he's not worth million. Not even a regular joes salary 36-40,000 a year...

[Sick Dog]

Does this Castle guy play for the Chiefs or is this something you build at the beach:efpge:

[TopekaRoy]

Wish I could run into him on the streets to tell how bad I think he sucks.
Why would you want to personally tell him how much you think he sucks? Did he hurt you personally or are you just a jerk?

I don't think Matt Cassel cares what you think of him.

[Kc-ben]

Well he is on the ground alot but this is no beach...

[azchiefsfan]

Cassel played very well when he had time. He got happy feet after the third sack, but that's on the O line. Our offensive line buckled like a potato chip house. We need to draft just O linemen next year. We are just a decent O line away from making a serious run...and a coach that can prepare for an opponent.

[matthewschiefs]

Cassel played very well when he had time. He got happy feet after the third sack, but that's on the O line. Our offensive line buckled like a potato chip house. We need to draft just O linemen next year. We are just a decent O line away from making a serious run...and a coach that can prepare for an opponent.


Cassel is the one I am least upset with today. He came to play. He made something out of nothing a number of times. The Offense was hurt by horrible game planing and the coaching staff not making adjustments.

One thing is clear this is not a drop back and pass team. When the passing game has worked for the most part it has been the quick passing game. Why we stuck with the drop back passing when Cassel was getting sacked time after time after time I will never understand.

[Kc-ben]

No nothing personal I just spend 3200 a yr to watch my chiefs and dont care for his play or lack of leadership. I no he dont give a crap but I dont think he can hear in the stands. If u keep it real does that make u a jerk? If so I guess were both jerks...

[TopekaRoy]

No nothing personal I just spend 3200 a yr to watch my chiefs and dont care for his play or lack of leadership. I no he dont give a crap but I dont think he can hear in the stands. If u keep it real does that make u a jerk? If so I guess were both jerks...
I get that you don't think he is a good QB, but what do you think telling him that he sucks would accomplish? do you think it would make him play better? I can see wanting to say hurtful things to Vick because he abused and killed dogs, or to Larry Johnson or Ben Roethlisbureger for the way the (allegedly) treat women, but I don't understand the personal hatred of Cassel.

[Kc-ben]

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this. Feel better now?

As a Chiefs fan it is very important to me that nobody gets paid a dime more than they deserve and that nobody gets paid a dime less than they deserve becuase ... um ... like, ticket prices ... team solvency and stuff ... and um ... Parking is to high, I guess. I don't know, I've never actually been to a Chiefs game, but someone must be getting screwed!

Doctors and lawyers and politicians are overpaid, too.

I hate that!

I wish they were all paid on there performance. Insentive!!!! It will never happen but what if? Would u see a different NFL???

[Kc-ben]

I wish they were all paid on there performance. Insentive!!!! It will never happen but what if? Would u see a different NFL???

By the way Topeka is only a hr and a half to the stadium. Thats sad!!! Chiefs fan huh?

[TopekaRoy]

By the way Topeka is only a hr and a half to the stadium. Thats sad!!! Chiefs fan huh?
Why is it sad that Topeka is only an hour and a half form the stadium? Should it be closer or farther away?

Yes I am a Chiefs fan. Have i not mad that clear?

[Kc-ben]

Why is it sad that Topeka is only an hour and a half form the stadium? Should it be closer or farther away?

Yes I am a Chiefs fan. Have i not mad that clear?

Sad u have never been to a game. Not that far from u whats your reason? If u were there today u would no that the fan of the year award went to a chiefs FAN that lives in minnesota that hasn't missed a game. How come your not there helping pay for your boys salary?

[TopekaRoy]

Sad u have never been to a game. Not that far from u whats your reason? If u were there today u would no that the fan of the year award went to a chiefs FAN that lives in minnesota that hasn't missed a game. How come your not there helping pay for your boys salary?
Oj, okay. I misunderstood what you were saying because you quoted yourself. I just assumed your comment was directed at me because you mentioned Topeka.

I have never been to a game because I can't afford it. Much of the time I have lived in Topeka, I have had to work on Sundays. Right now I am unemployed. But I would love to go see a game in person. Would you like to buy me a ticket and pick me up? I'll try to scrounge up enough cash to split the parking with you. :D

[Vandelay]

Today, not Cassels fault.

[Chiefster]

Today, not Cassels fault.

Absolutely agreed; we had no running game to speak of and Cassel was consistently running for his life.

[pojote]

This game against Miami was a strategic loss. Now Colts are in front of the Luck race. They will draft him, release Peyton, and the only team with salary cap space are the Chiefs. With this win, we'll get Manning (the good one).

So, are we happy now?

[ctchiefsfan]

This game against Miami was a strategic loss. Now Colts are in front of the Luck race. They will draft him, release Peyton, and the only team with salary cap space are the Chiefs. With this win, we'll get Manning (the good one).

So, are we happy now?

Now that right there is an interesting idea. Although at 35 he is getting towards the end of his career.

[70 chiefsfan70]

I don't see the Chiefs signing Manning. If we were a QB away from a super bowl contenting team maybe, but we have far too many issues to blow that kind of money on a short term QB. Besides I would be surprised if He ever fully recovers and performs like he used to.


Now to Cassel, I don't really care for him either but, where could we have gotten a better option? (I'm not aware of any). My biggest complaint with him is he doesn't get the ball to the WR quick enough, his release and reaction is slow. He has a decent run game that should help him in the passing game, but it seems to me the blame lies with the coaching and or play calls. If the run game gets stuffed we have to open it with a few 3 or 4 step passes and it seems like we the fans are the only ones who don't like the play calls. Clearly our weaknest is picking up the blitz. Our opponents know to blitz and our team falls apart. We have to find a way to make these teams pay for blitzing and our coaches don't get it. We should have more plays for blitzes. How hard is it to play from the shotgun and fire a quick pass? You don't need any blockers for that. We have the right receivers for that. Haley is loosing me really fast. As for now Cassel is our very best option therefore hes the MAN. like it or not thats who we have. We can complain about Cassel every week, but bottom line is, its going to be a long rest of the season if the coaches don't do their job.

[Chiefster]

This game against Miami was a strategic loss. Now Colts are in front of the Luck race. They will draft him, release Peyton, and the only team with salary cap space are the Chiefs. With this win, we'll get Manning (the good one).

So, are we happy now?

An interesting scenario and a huge gamble for Haley if he is indeed on the hot seat. I'm not buying it, but I have been wrong before. I just don't see Clark letting go of the kind of money it would take to get Manning.

[josh1971]

This game against Miami was a strategic loss. Now Colts are in front of the Luck race. They will draft him, release Peyton, and the only team with salary cap space are the Chiefs. With this win, we'll get Manning (the good one).

So, are we happy now?

Seek help.

[#58ChiefsFan]

This game against Miami was a strategic loss. Now Colts are in front of the Luck race. They will draft him, release Peyton, and the only team with salary cap space are the Chiefs. With this win, we'll get Manning (the good one).

So, are we happy now?

Eli would be a better fit.

Peyton would never be able to function here in the remaining time he has left. He didn't exactly light it up last season once their o line began to crumble. Here he would be on IR faster than Bob Sanders in any year Bob was "healthy". Manning is not a scrambling qb and we know Cassel can take a hit.... or several each week.

[AkChief49]

I am absolutely against bringing in ANY QB that is only 1 or 2 years away from retiring. Huge risk with Manning to boot (neck).

[70 chiefsfan70]

I am absolutely against bringing in ANY QB that is only 1 or 2 years away from retiring. Huge risk with Manning to boot (neck).


Agreed!!!!!

[pojote]

It's funny to see that some people actually bits it, how can be good to get an almost retired QB, who won't be healthy for his last if he has something left?
I've read in this forum that Cassel sucks, if we get any other QB we will win amount of superbowls, etc.
But, even if we like him or not, he is the best QB that we can get for now, for this team. How can we loss on purpose to get Manning? That's insane.