We need a real american hero not cassell [Archive]

KCraised

11-14-2011, 07:58 PM

Id love to see him start in six weeks and play the final two games.

I don't see anyway he could read the defense on the next five opponents we face. Five playoff teams. I just think that stretch would get in his head and he would become scared like Matt is.

I don't want to come off like I am against Stanzi it is just horrible timing with our schedule.
I have to agree. As much as i would love to see Stanzi play, i think i would rather see Palko thrown to the wolves. I mean, i really hope Palko does well but this is the perfect storm of teams you DONT wanna play with the way we are playing. 2 nationally televised games? Good grief. Brace yourselves, gentlemen. Its gonna get pretty bumpy.
Expect the worst, hope for the best...

2010chiefs

11-14-2011, 10:26 PM

If Christian Ponder and Andy Dalton can step in and play well, then why not give Stanzi the opportunity. no excuses!

tornadospotter

11-14-2011, 11:21 PM

I agree that we need to find out what this rookie QB can do. But I also am interested what Palko can do. just saying.

SIC J

11-15-2011, 02:23 AM

I would like to see Stanzi cuz let's be real, college is no where near the level of the NFL. But the Chiefs have some pretty good WR's he can throw to when they're not dropping the ball. Haha.

And if Tebow can complete 2 passes and win a game, why can't Stanzi? LOL

lovenflrefs1

11-15-2011, 05:37 AM

What if Stanzi doesn't get hurt vs Northwestern? Do they go undefeated? Do they go to the BCS championship? Do they win? Sure Stanzi had only a mediocre Junior year, but think what happens after that season if that all happens and he goes on to have the great year he had as a Senior.

He's underrated and easily better than Dalton and Ponder. He might not be ready for Monday, or even the next few games, but he could easily be a starter in the future, whether for the Chiefs or someone else, he'll get his shot.

Being from Iowa and being an Iowa fan, him getting hurt made me sick to my stomach. After Stanzi is injured, they lose to N'western by a touchdown and then lose to Ohio State in OT by a field goal. With Stanzi, that wouldn't have happened. Yes, they had one of the best, if not the best, defense that year, and only an above average offense, but don't let that deter you from the possibility of Iowa winning it all and things being completely different.

chiefnut

11-15-2011, 08:16 AM

Anyone even watch the video?

yes, but the problem w/highlight videos is that is of the best only, you can't get a true measure w/o seeing the bad plays as well

70 chiefsfan70

11-15-2011, 08:48 AM

Id love to see him start in six weeks and play the final two games.

I don't see anyway he could read the defense on the next five opponents we face. Five playoff teams. I just think that stretch would get in his head and he would become scared like Matt is.

I don't want to come off like I am against Stanzi it is just horrible timing with our schedule.

You make a very good point. The chance of winning any of the next five games is very slim. It won't matter which QB we use, if we win any of them it will be because of the defense and turnovers for touchdowns. But like you said I'd like to see Stanzi get some playing time to see if he can handle the job. If he shows nothing then we need to find someone via draft or free agent for next year. I do believe that our next several games could ruin a rookie QB. But sometime this year we need to see what he is made of.

marloweopatchiefs

11-15-2011, 04:23 PM

Well i'm all for stanzi

josh1971

11-15-2011, 09:10 PM

Well i'm all for stanzi

Same- he was drafted because he can play football. Let's see him play football.

marloweopatchiefs

07-18-2012, 07:57 PM

Just found this old thread. Watched the movie. Is it just me or does it look like stanzi can actually roll out the pocket and throw and scramble pretty well and read the whole field. Something our current qb has a problem doing. Maybe it's just me cause i've been on the stanzi bandwagon for a while now.

marloweopatchiefs

07-18-2012, 07:59 PM

And he can throw a descent deep ball as well

marloweopatchiefs

07-18-2012, 08:05 PM

a post from the youtube clip

When the Chiefs finally decide to put this guy in, they will find they have the next Tom Brady on their roster. This guy was the most underrated quarterback last year. I see a much more polished passer and much better foot work than Ponder or Dalton and look at how well those guys did last year. Stanzi could be an elite NFL quarterback if someone will just put him in the game.

70 chiefsfan70

07-18-2012, 08:27 PM

marloweopatchiefs

07-18-2012, 09:28 PM

Why should I believe he will be an elite qb? Out of the three games he had in the preseason, he played well in one of them, the lowly St. Louis Rams.

Simple no offseasom...otas etc last season. And whem your playing with 3rd string talent that cant protect u that will affect ur performance.

#58ChiefsFan

07-19-2012, 06:07 AM

Playing against third string talent should make you look good, just look at palko

Marloweopatchiefs said playing WITH third string talent not AGAINST third string talent.

OPLookn

07-19-2012, 10:46 AM

Playing against third string talent should make you look good, just look at palko

And Orton...wait, that's second string. Someone else only played three games and looked good in one Matt Flynn.

OPLookn

07-19-2012, 03:37 PM

If Stanzi ever plays like Flynn did in the regular season then that could sway me a bit. But that hasn't happened. He's still battling for the backup job.

What we need to decide is what are we going to do after this year? After Cassel has a mediocre/bad year. What is the longterm solution? That I don't know. I think we will be around the 15-16 selection in next years draft so we will see. This is Pioli's second to last year, and I really dont see him drafting a QB in 2013, he needs to save his job, Clark is not going to renew his contract if we have 2 mediocre to bad seasons, so why would he draft a rookie qb next year? I guess the next answer would be stanzi.

What about when Cassel succeeds or has a year where he isn't bad but middle of the road? If you really think we aren't making the playoffs I'm not sure what to tell you. We're going to be picking mid to late 20's this year.

Also Pioli's contract is for 6 years so he's got through 2014. Add on to that that we won the division in his 2nd year and we were a field goal away from winning back to back division crowns. There is no way in his right mind that Clark is letting Pioli walk. Period.

OPLookn

07-19-2012, 05:10 PM

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/michael-jordan-laugh.gif

We played a cream puff schedule in 2010, lucky for pioli, the other times we played a decent schedule and got crushed with cassel.

Why is Pioli must have? Because of all the all pro's he has drafted? Because we are 21-25 under pioli? All of the playoff wins we have under his command?

Yeah, no way we let pioli go.

Let's see...I had some kind of point....oh yeah, he inherited a 2-14 team with almost zero talent on it and the talent that was there was old. But yeah, totally should have gone 19-0.

Pioli is a must have because he's rebuilt this team to be a power house and now that the picks Pioli made have had time to gain experience we're going to win division crowns. That's right, plural. But you go on telling us how Peterson's and Edward's picks were and are "carrying" us and all the other picks sucked....give me a break :sign0104:

#58ChiefsFan

07-19-2012, 07:54 PM

matthewschiefs

07-19-2012, 11:10 PM

How in god's name are we a power house?

Even if we were a powerhouse, what impact players has he drafted? Berry? Seems like all of our other players who make REAL IMPACTS have been from the previous regime. Our franchise corner, pass rusher, running back and WR etc.. Can you imagine this defense without Hali? Can you imagine the offense without Charles? Oh yes, we saw that and it went to pieces. Cassel looked like a blind man out there without JC. Remember the Baltimore game? We were moving the ball somewhat well with a healthy Charles, when he went out it became a 86-3 game.

Like it or not the main players that anchor both of our offense and defense come from the previous regime. I want you to just sit back and imagine the offense without JC and Bowe. Imagine the Defense without Hali, Flowers and DJ.

I am not saying the 2011 draft picks won't become good, but that's just how it is as of right now.

This again?

How many times do I have to list all the good players Pioli has brought in that have made an Impact on this team. I will one more time
1. Dexter Mccluster he was the offense outside of Bowe last year that's an impact.
2. Tony Moeaki was a big red zone target in 2010 he got injured the last preseason game last year and that was a big hurt to the offense as the struggles the offense had were huge in the redzone I would call that an impact.
3. Justin Houston In 1 season by the end he was the pass rush outside of Hali He put good pressure on qbs and that helped the Defense at the end of the year. He gave the other team someone else to worry about on the Defense I would call that an Impact.
4. Ryan Succop Had a great run of making big time field goals including the game winner against the Chargers on MNF he did miss a killer but he made far more then he missed.
5. Tyson Jackson that's right I said it he has been a solid player on the defense for the Chiefs. There have been many articles posted on this site written about the impact that Jackson and Dorsey both had on the Defense.

You're right when you say that Herm and CP got some players that are still a big help to this team. But don't pretend that Pioli hasn't brought in his fair share of good talent that has helped this team. And Matt Cassel is part of that as well. You can't throw out all the good he did and just look at the bad. That's just not a proper way to look at anything.

matthewschiefs

07-20-2012, 02:02 AM

For the offense's sake, I will go back to the Baltimore game. WITHOUT JC WE COULDNT DO ANYTHInG ON OFFENSE. WE HAD NO HOPE, JUST ADMIT IT. We were actually moving the ball well with JC, when he went out what happened? I dont even think we got the ball on their side of the field. Our offense centers around him because he is our best offensive weapon. We sure as hell can't throw the ball and move it down field, or else we would.

You guys have to face the facts, as of right now the only player that has come on the Chiefs roster and made the impact that we need to win super bowls from the pioli era has been eric berry. That's it. What is mccluster going to do with Charles back in the lineup? It's going to be similar to 2010.

I just wonder why we would have such high expectations. We have not had great drafts since pioli has been here, and even he admitted he needed to do better. JC will never be the same again and you do realize over the last 3 seasons he has ONE win, ONE WIN against teams with a record over .500 I'll say that again. ONE TEAM! And this guy is going to lead us to the AFC Championship game? Has everyone gone crazy?

First I don't know what Mccluster is going to do this year. No one does we have not seen it happen yet. But last season he showed that he's a weapon. He helped the Chiefs just about as much as any other player. They will find a way to get him the ball in games. Do you think that they are so stupid to ignore a weapon on there team? I don't.

The expectations are high because there is real talent on this team. No matter how much you want deny the talent Pioli has brought in there there. Mccluster,Moaki,Succop,Jackson,Breaston,Baldwin,Hi llis,Winston, The draft that we saw this year that focused on the O line something that has needed to happen for far far to long.

Amd HE has won 2 games against teams with winning records. 2009 against the then defending super bowl Champs Pittsburgh Steelers with a team that was still made up mostly of the 2-14 team that your guys herm and cp fielded (theres a reason they were fired) and 2010 MNF opener against the Chargers. HE played better against the same "cream puffs" then Rivers and your man Orton did in 2010. Since they both lost twice to the "cream puffs" HE has done some good things. HE has failed at times. But HE has proven he can take this team to the playoffs HE can do it again. If he doesn't this year then he will be gone and we will start someone else But lets not pretend that we know he can't do it lets see if he can do it AGAIN.

#58ChiefsFan

07-20-2012, 08:04 AM

He will be in uniform until his contract expires, Pioli won't release him.

chiefnut

07-20-2012, 08:45 AM

this dead horse has been beaten to w/in an inch of its life......
our biggest problem in the ravens game was th O line, a timely fumble and a dropped pass made a close game a rout. the line could not open running lanes nor provide adequate protection, especially when the ravens knew we had to throw the ball to get back in the game. i hope the line problems have been addressed now this team should be much more compettitive.

OPLookn

07-20-2012, 01:12 PM

How in god's name are we a power house?

Even if we were a powerhouse, what impact players has he drafted? Berry? Seems like all of our other players who make REAL IMPACTS have been from the previous regime. Our franchise corner, pass rusher, running back and WR etc.. Can you imagine this defense without Hali? Can you imagine the offense without Charles? Oh yes, we saw that and it went to pieces. Cassel looked like a blind man out there without JC. Remember the Baltimore game? We were moving the ball somewhat well with a healthy Charles, when he went out it became a 86-3 game.

Like it or not the main players that anchor both of our offense and defense come from the previous regime. I want you to just sit back and imagine the offense without JC and Bowe. Imagine the Defense without Hali, Flowers and DJ.

I am not saying the 2011 draft picks won't become good, but that's just how it is as of right now.

We are loaded on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball. With the old regime's picks and Pioli's picks we've got a ton of talent and depth.

Your idea of an impact player seems to be someone that puts up big stats and is mentioned on ESPN. Tyson Jackson isn't going to be that kind of guy, Glenn Dorsey won't be either.

As for your ranting and raving about the Baltimore game being painful I'd invite you to go back and specifically watch the line. If you do you'll see that they can't get a push, are getting moved to where ever the D line wants them to go and are blowing up anything we do. Who made that line? In effect Carl Peterson did.

When Pioli took over this team was in shambles. Defense wins Championships. That line has been touted for a long time and the past SB winners proves that. So we started with a defense. In 2010 we played lights out and got to the playoffs. So lets look at the O Line that Pioli inherited.

Branden Albert (drafted in 2009, still learning in 2010), Andrew Carnahan, Adrian Jones, Damion McIntosh, Rudy Niswanger, Wade Smith, Barry Richardson, Wade Smith, Herb Taylor, Tavares Washington and Brian Waters. We got rid of some of those guys in 2010 and picked up Lilja and Weigmann. While I love the work ethic that Weigmann brought to the team and how Lilja is a hometowner, both are/were stop gap guys.

Bottom line Pioli has been building from the shambles that Peterson left him. Did Peterson draft some good players yeah sure but as a GM you're suppose to! Oh your beloved Peterson also traded an "impact" player by the name of Jared Allen all because his ego was too big. For everything you fault Pioli on Peterson did far worse.

Most picks need 2 to 3 years to learn and adjust, it seems you admit that with your comment about the 2011 draftee's. So wouldn't it be plausible that this year we'll see more of Pioli's draft picks stepping into their own and making "impact" plays like Peterson's guys have had time to do?

tornadospotter

07-20-2012, 09:57 PM

A new Season is soon to start. Maybe we should all start thinking some positives, and not moping around about what is past. I personally believe we have the players, but do we have the fans?

:chiefs3:

Chiefster

07-20-2012, 11:20 PM

matthewschiefs

07-21-2012, 02:41 AM

We definitely have the fans, we just don't have the players.

I think someone will be eating a ton of crow by the end of the year. I really don't know why you are so down on this team. A missed field goal away from winning a 2nd division title in a row without out top players plus the additions they made in the free agent market. I know you don't like Cassel but I really don't know what else has you so down on this team.

70 chiefsfan70

07-21-2012, 08:55 AM

I think someone will be eating a ton of crow by the end of the year. I really don't know why you are so down on this team. A missed field goal away from winning a 2nd division title in a row without out top players plus the additions they made in the free agent market. I know you don't like Cassel but I really don't know what else has you so down on this team.

This team will never be good enough in MMO's eyes. We could win a super bowl and he would still be stuck talking about a bad play or two and mistakes from the preseason, third string guys.

marloweopatchiefs

07-21-2012, 10:19 AM

I think i need to clear something up. I have a cassel jersey i wore every sunday until the game against denver where tebow completed 2 passes and we lost. That's when i fell off the cassel train. I'm hoping he makes me eat crow big time this season. I want him to be the franchise qb like they paid him to be. But if not stanzi will be the next guy in line. A rookie that has alot of potential in my eye. We will just have to see

marloweopatchiefs

07-21-2012, 10:20 AM

We definitely have the fans, we just don't have the players.

mmo what team have you been watching this offseason? Clearly this team is stacked dude. Qb is the weakest position.

matthewschiefs

07-22-2012, 01:16 PM

No, we are 21-25 under Pioli, which included a 4-12, 10-6 and 7-9 year. The year we did well we played against an incredibly weak schedule and proceeded to get absolutely blown out in the playoffs. If we win a playoff game this year I will say, ok, here we go, we are headed in the right direction. I am being pretty realistic, the ones that say 12-4 have absolutely no evidence to back up their claim. Matt Cassel doesn't have a good record as a starter, JC has a torn ACL and will never be the same. It's not like we are leaps ahead of where we were in 2010.

We might be 21-25 under Pioli but that's not all his fault he took over a team that was 15-33 under the former management of this team the one that you praise so much. Of course it was going to take some time to start getting some wins when you are left with a team that is one of the Cream puffs you talk about so much you're going to lose a few games. The team has shown they are going in a much better direction. 6 games better the Herm Cp even with a year where they lost 3 of there top players before we even got close to the halfway point. Those players are going to be back and depth was added. If Charles isn't 100% we have a much better guy to turn to. And we also have Mccluster who showed he can do some of the things Charles did. Charles will not have to take on as much of the load as he once did. Cassel has shown that when the talent around him is there he can play good. He went to the Pro bowl in 2010. I know I know cream puffs. But if you're going to throw that out then once again I will tell you that you have to throw out the 1 game that Orton had against the Packers. The Packers D was HORRIBLE if Cassel had played and did what Orton did you would say that. Even with Orton in there the team had a lot of the same trouble they did with Cassel they couldn't get the ball in the endzone and had to take 3 over and over again. Orton put up less points then what the Packers averaged giving up last year (19 points averaged 22 points) Orton was below average in that game. You can't have it both ways. If you're going to throw out the good times due to poor opponents then do it don't pick and chose when you do it.

matthewschiefs

07-22-2012, 02:47 PM

Yes he can against BAD TEAMS. Why can't you understand that? Whenever he plays solid teams he doesnt play well, just like last year. Very rarely does he play well against solid teams yet plays great against the horrible teams. Matt, you need to understand a qb like that will never get us to the next step. It will never happen.Because when he runs into playoff teams like Baltimore, who we saw in 2010 he has an awful game and we lose. It's been that way in 09,10 and 11, and it will be that way in 12. Once we go 8-8 this year I will hear the same old excuses, it will never stop!

Honestly Matt, if we go 8-8 this year will you then admit that maybe its time we go in another direction?

Because if we go 12-4/11-5 and win a playoff game i will admit that we are on the right track.

So again THROW OUT ORTONS GAME then. He went against the WORST defense in the NFL last year and you seem to count that when he put up BELOW average numbers against that D. If a weak opponent means you throw out a guys numbers and what he did then do it for everyone don't pick and chose who you do it for.

Those weak opponents manged to beat Phillip Rivers and your man Orton twice each. So are they Horrible? Or did those "cream puffs" suddenly become good those weeks just for those weeks. In the NFL wins are earned no matter who it's against. That's why they have the saying any given sunday.

Did we lose that playoff game yes we did. But that game wasn't one that we were out classed from the start. The Chiefs lead that game till the 2 minute mark of the first half. It was a young team in there first playoff game for the most part. It got away from them in the 2nd half it has happened to many teams before. It doesn't mean that you blow up everything. It's a learning experience for teams. It happens a lot in pro sports.

If we go 8-8 or worse I don't know what happens. Is it anther injury filled season where we lose everyone before the 4th game? If it's 8-8 or worse without losing our top players I will be more willing to talk about being a weaker team and more Harsh on Pioli but I won't pretend that it happened that way before the start of training camp. I wait and see what happens I don't pretend I know better then Pioli.

matthewschiefs

07-22-2012, 04:11 PM

Dude when he beat rivers in 10 he threw for 68 yards. Ok. 68 yards.

Listen thats what his history is, he sucks against good teams. It's just the way it is, i remember calculating his rating and it was about 59 against either teams that were.500 and over or over .500. Matt, he's not a qb that can get us to the next step. Our running game is our only hope, because we sure as hell can't throw the ball.

Now Matt, listen to me. I dont care about Kyle Orton, if it had been Brady Quinn who stepped in and played better than Cassel for our team my name would read "My Man Quinn." I just want someone else in there, someone who is not named Matt Cassel

I wasn't talking about Cassel beating Rivers I was talking about the teams you labeled as cream puffs beating Rivers twice in 2010.

Here's my problem with your outlook on this team.
1. You throw out any Cassel wins label them as cream puffs yet when Orton went against the WORST defense in the NFL put up 3 points less then what was there Average points per game given up you act like he went out and put on a show for the ages. The reason we won that game was the defense. Just like it was at times for Cassel yet you give Orton credit for that win when you don't give Cassel for his wins.
2. You give the former management credit for there picks of Hali,Bowe,Charles,Flowers won't talk about the MANY MANY More horrible picks they made or the fact they traded away one of the best pass rushers in the game in Jarad Allen. But you refuse to give Pioli credit for the picks of Mccluster who was a big boost for our offense last year yet you claim they won't give him the ball this year for some reason, Moaki big big red zone target who was really missed in the red zone last year.Jackson YES Jackson who MANY articles have been written by people who are not Chiefs fans talking about how he helps the defense. Succop who has made a lot of big field goals some big game winners and who is tied for the Chiefs record I believe. You refuse to give Baldwin time to see what he can do. All you can say is that the only player good he has drafted is Berry. You won't give Pioli credit for the free agents he brought in to help add to this team this offseason you make it sound like he's just sitting twiddling his thumbs. Yet you will praise time and time again a management that went 15-33.

I don't or wouldn't blame you for saying Cassel has to get better the fact is he does have to. He hasn't gotten the job done. This is it for Cassel this year. There is no more excuses. If Charles goes down there is much better talent to replace him then there was a year ago. The o line has be upgraded. He will no longer have a Oc and a Head coach Oc combo like he did with Haley. If Cassel starts slow I will be calling for Stanzi just like everyone else. But I won't act like I know he's going to struggle. I am going to give it a chance. What's wrong with giving it a chance? If he sucks this year then I will have no problem what so ever with you bashing him but I think we should give him a chance with THIS team THIS YEAR THIS coaching staff a OC who took Reggie Bush from a bust to a 1,000 yard rusher. Cassel could surprise you. Will he I don't know I have some doubts as well as you. But I won't pretend I know he's going to fail before he shows me. This team is 19-0 this year till PROVEN otherwise :chiefs:

matthewschiefs

07-22-2012, 04:38 PM

Look at that link i gave you. You want cold hard facts? You want reasons why Cassel is not the answer? There you go.

Chiefs The Declaration Of Independence, MO - The People vs. Matthew Gus Brennan Cassel - ChiefsPlanet (http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=261629)

Just someone else who wants to place all the blame on Cassel Funny how they don't mention just how bad the team was that he took over. There's a reason they were 2-14 in 08. This team didn't lose so many of those games because of Matt Cassel they lost there really early on in Cassel's time in KC because well they were a bad football team. Cassel is 18-22 the run before him was 15-33 Funny how that's no where in that

Matt Cassel is never going to be the reason that the Chiefs are going to win games most the time. But he's also not often the reason they lose.

matthewschiefs

07-22-2012, 04:49 PM

They are facts. FACTS! Look at his record, the numbers, the statistics! Stop trying to suppress the truth, take it for what it is. The truth!

So 2008 didn't happen?????????????????????

The team he took over was HORRIBLE that is a FACT yet it's not in there. WHY not?????????????? Because then we can't put everything on Cassel????????????? They didn't mention that the Chiefs winning % went up under Cassel then the 3 years before WHY?????????

In 2009 the Chiefs lead the NFL in droped passes why is that not in there? Because that might have maid it look like there was more wrong with the team then Cassel??????????????

I didn't say any of what was said in there wasn't true but if you want to talk about looking at the facts then include ALL The facts not just those who put everything on Cassel. What's wrong with looking at ALL the facts.

matthewschiefs

07-22-2012, 05:36 PM

He was 1-3 against playoff teams in 2008. Sound Familiar?

He is definitely not the reason we win games. We are 14-6 when we run more than we throw, he is 3-16 when we throw more than we run. That shows that we cannot win when we put the ball in the air, something I have said since I joined the board. When teams stop the run we can't win.

He has a 3-13 record against playoff bound teams.

He lacks deep passing ability, yards per attempt he was 29th last year. This shows he loves to throw to the flats, something your grandmother could do.

His rating has been absolutely atrocious when going against those teams, his bad play is a major reason we lose games. The solution? Start someone else so we can make that next step. How anyone can still want him as our starting qb after reading that thread is beyond me.

So every one of those losses is on Cassel????????? really??????????

How about in 08 against the Jets Cassel and the Pats offense put up 31 points on the Jets yet they lost. Yeah ALL matt Cassel's fault he's why they lost that game

09 with the Chiefs Cassel put up 34 points against the Browns and the Chiefs Lost YES ALL ON CASSEL it's all his fault

2010 Cassel put up 31 against the texans and 29 againt the donkeys and the Chiefs lost both those games YES ALL ON CASSEL he's what made them lose those games.

Those are FACTS. Which failed to be mention how many of the games lost were because the defense on that day couldn't stop anyone at all. It's not Matt Cassel Losing games it's the Kansas City Chiefs losing games. It's not Matt Cassel winning games It's the Kansas City Chiefs winning games. Matt Cassel is a big part of there loses true but he's also a part of there wins. It's a team game.
And again you ignore that the Chiefs led the NFL in drops in 09 a drop is a pass that is a catchable that is not caught. The QB does there job the WR doesn't do there's. Why don't you talk about that fact????? You also keep ignoring the talent on the Chiefs in 09 or the lack of talent. That had a factor as well why so many of those games were lost. FACT Cassel joined a team that went 2-14. Why won't you mention that???????????????

Cassel is a part of the problem that's true but to act like he's the reason the Chiefs have lost is just not true. You want to talk about suppressing facts I have not said a single fact you have presented was not true. I just give the ones you don't want to acknowledge.

matthewschiefs

07-22-2012, 05:52 PM

How do you look at stats like that thread has and still want him to be our guy? As Ryfo said, if you have seen that thread and still are a cassel supporter you have no hope.

How?

Simple all the facts were not included. That's how. Include ALL the Facts like the one about the dropped passes the talent that Cassel had in 09 ECT then I will take it more seriously but until you add ALL facts then don't expect me to take your word for it. TELL the whole story not just the story you want told. I could make a thing like that and only include bad stats for anyone and make it sound like that player is horrible not including all the facts just isn't a fair way to form an opinion one way or the other. I am not all that high on Cassel really if you go back and look a threads last season I was all for putting someone else there I just won't blame him alone for the struggles like some want to. He's part of it but not the only part of it.

And I recall alot of the games where we threw more then ran the ball. Most the time it's because the D struggled as well as the Offense and they HAD to throw the ball to try to get back in it. Happens all the time. But those games are not all on Cassel either.

Eydugstr

07-22-2012, 06:03 PM

He was 1-3 against playoff teams in 2008. Sound Familiar?

He is definitely not the reason we win games. We are 14-6 when we run more than we throw, he is 3-16 when we throw more than we run. That shows that we cannot win when we put the ball in the air, something I have said since I joined the board. When teams stop the run we can't win.

He has a 3-13 record against playoff bound teams.

He lacks deep passing ability, yards per attempt he was 29th last year. This shows he loves to throw to the flats, something your grandmother could do.

His rating has been absolutely atrocious when going against those teams, his bad play is a major reason we lose games. The solution? Start someone else so we can make that next step. How anyone can still want him as our starting qb after reading that thread is beyond me.

Okay, I'll bite. Yep, you bashing Cassell "sounds familar". Yeah, it's easy to bash a guy that signed a 60 million dollar contract (like we'd turn it down 60 mill if it was offered to us, no matter how crappy we were, and overlooking our current status as couch implanted critics).

But you know what? I've yet to see Cassell play a game without Haley screaming in his ear. I've yet to see Cassell play two seasons in a row with the same offensive cooridinator. I've yet to see Cassell play behind a halfway cohesive offensive line. If I was in his shoes, I'd want to run the ball a lot, too. It's not like Jamal Charles was in the huddle telling him "No, man...I'd rather call a pass play."

Yeah, guess I'm a Cassell "apologist". But I am also convinced that he wasn't signed to be the next Joe Montana. If the Joe Montana of '93 had come to the Chiefs when Cassell did, with Haley's screaming and goofy 3rd and 4th down decision making, poor O-line, revolving door at OC....He would've been in a wheelchair by the end of summer camp, let alone a full season!

matthewschiefs

07-22-2012, 06:19 PM

Let me give and example of how facts left out in the link about Cassel being so bad can be a factor.

The Chiefs had 46 dropped passes by December of 09 Even though Haley had it at more 49
http://cjonline.com/sports/football/2009-12-23/chiefs_near_dropped_pass_record

Cassel in 09 had a competion% of about 55% 54.9% lets give him only Half of the 46 drops that HALF it takes it to 59.634% that's only half It played a factor on his numbers. If you're going to talk about how bad Cassel is this should have been included if you want to be fair. It wasn't so I can't take that seriously at all.

matthewschiefs

07-22-2012, 06:46 PM

Matt I need to give you my aim address, and we need to talk man to man

LOL the closest to aim that i ever use is facebook

OPLookn

07-23-2012, 11:03 AM

He was 1-3 against playoff teams in 2008. Sound Familiar?

He is definitely not the reason we win games. We are 14-6 when we run more than we throw, he is 3-16 when we throw more than we run. That shows that we cannot win when we put the ball in the air, something I have said since I joined the board. When teams stop the run we can't win.

He has a 3-13 record against playoff bound teams.

He lacks deep passing ability, yards per attempt he was 29th last year. This shows he loves to throw to the flats, something your grandmother could do.

His rating has been absolutely atrocious when going against those teams, his bad play is a major reason we lose games. The solution? Start someone else so we can make that next step. How anyone can still want him as our starting qb after reading that thread is beyond me.

You can't be that blind that you really are going to put the record when we throw more than pass on Cassel? Seriously? When a run first team starts passing more it's because they're behind.

Tell you what, you put any average run first team that's playing from behind and see what they're record will be. I'd bet that you'll see that the team passed more then they ran. I'm also going to wager that they're record will be below average.

Our D was horrible in 09. You know...when we went 4-12 with you "impact" players of DJ and Hali? They were out on the field to much so they got tired and gave up points. Understandable. But guess what also happened, we threw more and lost because our D couldn't have stopped a high school team because they were so tired.

I'm done trying to "discuss" anything with you. You'll clearly go to any lengths to find or make statistics work for you. You don't discuss anything and only focus on the negative. Not to mention you pass over questions when you know you can't answer them because there are FACTS as you kept telling Matt a few posts ago.

Tell you what, I'll take your bet with Matt. If we go 8-8 this year I'm willing to agree that we need to do something. Maybe not drastic but something to right the ship. But if we make the playoffs and either play a tight game in the playoffs or win I want you to shut up about Pioli and Cassel. Seriously dude, you can't do any better and if you could you wouldn't be posting here you'd be making decisions at One Arrowhead Drive.