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View Full Version : A Deeper Look Into Matt Cassel, and How He Compares w/ the League



Ryfo18
11-15-2011, 10:37 PM
There has been a lot of debate regarding Matt Cassel recently. Last year, I was as big a supporter as anyone, defending him as often as possible. This year, I have changed my tone after watching him play. I have my reasons, but I am doing this study solely out of curiousity, and even I don't know the results as I write this post. I just have the data compiled into a spreadsheet (courtesy of ProFootballFocus.com).

Three of the common arguments we hear are this:

1.) Matt Cassel is not accurate enough.
2.) Matt Cassel is cursed by dropped passes.
3.) Matt Cassel is always under too much pressure to succeed.

The data I have in front of me is simply 4 statistics for each team:

1.) Drops
2.) Pass Attempts (when a pass was actually thrown)
2.) # of dropbacks where the quarterback saw pressure.
3.) Total # of Dropbacks

From these, it's easy to determine two percentages for every team:

1.) The percentage of passes dropped (Drops/Attempts)
2.) The percentage of times the quarterback faces pressure (Pressures/Dropbacks)

Here's what I have found...

The league average for percentage of passes dropped is 6.12%. The low is Buffalo (3.42%) and the high is St. Louis (9.04%). The Chiefs are in fact above average in drops at 7.61% (21 drops in 276 attempts). From a precentage standpoint, this is the 5th worst in the league. So we can without a doubt say, the Chiefs drop more passes than the rest of the league, on a per attempt basis.

As far as pressures. The league average is that a quarterback will face pressure 32% of the time. The low is Tennessee (17.9%) and the high is Philadelphia (40.3%). The Chiefs are actually surprisingly below the league average (29.4%) and the 11th best in the league.

So knowing this, what can I say about Matt Cassel? He has more passes dropped than the average QB, but also faces less pressure. How about his personal stats compared to other quarterbacks?

CMP%: 59.5% (23rd)
Yards/Attempt: 6.4 (26th)
QB Rating: 76.6 (24th)

You can look up other stats, but these are easy ones to relate on a per quarterback basis.

My personal opinion of Matt Cassel is that he's serviceable, provided we have an awesome run game. I still think it is time for the Chiefs to spend a 1st round pick on a quarterback, and if anything, groom him to (hopefully) be our quarterback of the future. Matt Cassel, no matter the circumstances of dropped passes or protection, will most likely always be a below average NFL quarterback. Last year was impressive, but I can say without a doubt that it was against one of the easiest passing schedules, and our running game helped him out tremendously.

I just hope this helps clear up confusion as to how many passes get dropped or how much pressure our quarterback is under.

2010chiefs
11-15-2011, 11:18 PM
Nice read. Thanks.

70 chiefsfan70
11-16-2011, 09:53 AM
Thanks for your good work on this, I too, beleive that Cassel is workable, but where we differ is that Cassel is never going to work as a chief QB unless we start over on oline and WR's. These guys have lost all confidence and it will be impossible for Cassel to earn it all back in the few years Cassel has left.I don't think Cassel is a bad QB, He just don't fit this team.

Sick Dog
11-16-2011, 10:31 AM
O-line...sure but WR's are you kidding?? Bowe is among some of the best in the league Breaston has come around playing well and Baldwin has played 3 games and at times has looked great...This is the last place work needs to be done and hopefully Moeaki comes back and then they are even better receiving.

OPLookn
11-16-2011, 11:17 AM
Very interesting read, some things I expected and some I didn't. Thank you for doing all the statistical work!

I'd have to say the thing that shocked me the most didn't even deal with Cassel it was Philly facing pressure 40% of the time. I know they've lost and all that but for buying the "dream team" so to speak it's pretty crazy to have the QB pressured more than anyone in the league.

I am curious though, do you still have all the statistics readily available? I'd be curious to see the data for all the teams and QB's. Did you notice any patterns such as O-lines that weigh the most on average face the least pressure?

Jrudi
11-16-2011, 11:37 AM
Nice post!

I agree with you, I was as much of a Cassel supporter as you last year, and although I would have never considered myself a "Cassel Fan" I had always thought that he caught more grief than he deserved (like any QB in the NFL)

I had always thought that he could be a decent QB in the right situation (IE: New England, when Brady went down) I never agreed with how Pioli went about acquiring him, and giving him the long term deal before seeing what he could do here (it seems like that is the trap/type of move that the average NFL franchise falls into, not the type of franchise that the Chiefs and Pioli are striving to become, like the steelers, packers, patriots, ravens, etc.)

I also feel that this injury could be then beginning of the end of the Cassel, and possibly Haley era in KC. If Palko comes in and sparks some competitive play during this tough stretch, I think it cues us into drafting a QB high, and although maybe not starting him next year, but grooming him to succeed Cassel sooner rather than later. But if we do have a young QB come in next year, he will be coming into a good situation with his supporting cast. I think one main reason certain young QB's have a tough time transitioning to the NFL is due to the situations that are placed in, and are expected to to be the savior of a franchise. most don't have the offensive talent around them to succeed, but I think we will have that (Charles, Bowe, Breaston, Baldwin, Moeaki, McCluster, McClain, etc.) Not to mention, a defense that is, I think, 1 good player and an attitude change away from being a fairly decent D.

Who knows? but I hope all works out, whichever way we decide to go.

Ryfo18
11-16-2011, 11:40 AM
Very interesting read, some things I expected and some I didn't. Thank you for doing all the statistical work!

I'd have to say the thing that shocked me the most didn't even deal with Cassel it was Philly facing pressure 40% of the time. I know they've lost and all that but for buying the "dream team" so to speak it's pretty crazy to have the QB pressured more than anyone in the league.

I am curious though, do you still have all the statistics readily available? I'd be curious to see the data for all the teams and QB's. Did you notice any patterns such as O-lines that weigh the most on average face the least pressure?

I'm actually kind of mad because my wife shut down the computer before I saved the spreadsheet! I will recompile it though, it only took 30 minutes. If you PM me your e-mail I'll send it your way when I get it put back together.

azchiefsfan
11-16-2011, 11:44 AM
Of course, going by this years stats, that makes sense. But in a team decimated by injury, we couldn't expect anymore than that. Matter of fact, as bad as this team has played, I would be shocked to see him doing any better. I want us to win, as I've said, and I want Palko or Stanzi to be good. However, when their numbers aren't even close to Cassel's I won't gloat. I will point out that the team needs improving around them. You simply cannot expect a QB to do well with this team and coaching around him.

Ryfo18
11-16-2011, 11:58 AM
Of course, going by this years stats, that makes sense. But in a team decimated by injury, we couldn't expect anymore than that. Matter of fact, as bad as this team has played, I would be shocked to see him doing any better. I want us to win, as I've said, and I want Palko or Stanzi to be good. However, when their numbers aren't even close to Cassel's I won't gloat. I will point out that the team needs improving around them. You simply cannot expect a QB to do well with this team and coaching around him.

FYI, this team is still in the top 10 in total rushing, and the 5th worst in passing...Ahead of only the Vikings (Ponder/McNabb), Broncos (Tebow), 49ers (Smith), and Jaguars (Gabbert). 1,289 passing yards through 9 games is bad, no matter how you paint it.

I know another team that lost their stud tight end and best running back, last year. The Green Bay Packers. Guess what they went on to do? The injury excuses can only go so far.

OPLookn
11-16-2011, 12:00 PM
Of course, going by this years stats, that makes sense. But in a team decimated by injury, we couldn't expect anymore than that. Matter of fact, as bad as this team has played, I would be shocked to see him doing any better. I want us to win, as I've said, and I want Palko or Stanzi to be good. However, when their numbers aren't even close to Cassel's I won't gloat. I will point out that the team needs improving around them. You simply cannot expect a QB to do well with this team and coaching around him.

Actually I'd be curious to see the kind of statistics that Ryfo presented for any year. I'm sure there are patterns and it'd be interesting to see if someone can point to a certain year and say that year team A got two new lineman that ended up starting or they lost two linemen that year and the backups sucked.

KCraised
11-16-2011, 02:54 PM
Interesting data. Thanks for taking the time.

texaschief
11-16-2011, 03:28 PM
Of course, going by this years stats, that makes sense. But in a team decimated by injury, we couldn't expect anymore than that. Matter of fact, as bad as this team has played, I would be shocked to see him doing any better. I want us to win, as I've said, and I want Palko or Stanzi to be good. However, when their numbers aren't even close to Cassel's I won't gloat. I will point out that the team needs improving around them. You simply cannot expect a QB to do well with this team and coaching around him.

There's a reason Cassel has been a backup since high school. He doesn't even pass the eyeball test. Never have I watched a Matt Cassel game and thought, "WOW!! This guy is an elite QB." We have all seen what this team can do when it's clicking all all cylinders. If Matt Cassel was an elite QB, he would be able to put this team on his back and at the VERY LEAST, make them competitive.

Matt Cassel is a good backup. His ceiling is a below average starter... which is where he is now.

SIC J
11-16-2011, 03:29 PM
FYI, this team is still in the top 10 in total rushing, and the 5th worst in passing...Ahead of only the Vikings (Ponder/McNabb), Broncos (Tebow), 49ers (Smith), and Jaguars (Gabbert). 1,289 passing yards through 9 games is bad, no matter how you paint it.

I know another team that lost their stud tight end and best running back, last year. The Green Bay Packers. Guess what they went on to do? The injury excuses can only go so far.

Are you seriously comparing Grant to Charles? LOL

And are you seriously trying to compare or not factoring in Cassel to Rodgers? LOL

Not to mention the Packers allowed the 2nd least amount of points scored last year. LOL

So YES, when a team like the Chiefs has ELITE players injured, it affects them a lot more than a team like the Packers.

Ryfo18
11-16-2011, 04:16 PM
Are you seriously comparing Grant to Charles? LOL

And are you seriously trying to compare or not factoring in Cassel to Rodgers? LOL

Not to mention the Packers allowed the 2nd least amount of points scored last year. LOL

So YES, when a team like the Chiefs has ELITE players injured, it affects them a lot more than a team like the Packers.

And this is exactly why we need to draft a quarterback early next year, one that we can hang the future of the franchise on. Say what you will, but I doubt undrafted Tyler Palko and 5th rounder Ricky Stanzi are our answers for a franchise quarterback.

And no I'm not trying to compare Grant to Charles. But if you build your team and hinge your success on a lone running back, you're screwed. Of the last 10 Super Bowl champs, how many won by just having an elite running back? Outside of the Ravens in 2001, every Super Bowl champion since then has had a great quarterback. I can say this:

1.) Matt Cassel is good, but he'll never be great.
2.) There are never any guarantees that we'll find a great quarterback, they're few and far between. But this organization has done nothing that points in the direction of trying to develop a great quarterback. Matt Cassel below average arm strength, accuracy, and poor presence in the pocket. The last attribute can be taught, but the first two are the most difficult to overcome.

TopekaRoy
11-16-2011, 05:20 PM
That's very interresting. Nice work, Ryfo!


I'd have to say the thing that shocked me the most ... was Philly facing pressure 40% of the time.

My guess would be that Vick brings a lot of that pressure on himself by hanging on to the ball too long.. Because he has great ability to run the ball, teams bring extra pressure from the outside to keep him in the pocket, and he will often start to run and then pass the ball just before the line of scrimmage, if defenders "bite" on him running and leave a receiver open.

I would love to see those stats for myself. Can post links directly to the pages they are on?

Ryfo18
11-16-2011, 05:46 PM
I would love to see those stats for myself. Can post links directly to the pages they are on?

Unfortunately no, it's a subscription service so you'd have to pay to see them.

I don't think tables can paste that well into the forums, but I'd be happy to e-mail anyone the spreadsheet (once I put it together again). Just PM your e-mail.

chief31
11-16-2011, 06:10 PM
What would a similar breakdown, for last season (when the team was primarily healthy) look like?

The Pressures is extremely misleading. We had a few solid games at protection, but the last two have been as bad as any team, anywhere.

When the rest of your offense is terrible, the QB's statistics will be terrible. But that is not the same of a good offense making a QB's statistics good.

Accuracy will be hindered by dropped passes, and even with that issue in 2010, he still finished as the 8th highest completion percentage in The NFL, and he finished as the tenth best in 2008.

He has been a good QB, whenever the rest of the offense has been better than worthless.

Ryfo18
11-16-2011, 06:38 PM
What would a similar breakdown, for last season (when the team was primarily healthy) look like?

The Pressures is extremely misleading. We had a few solid games at protection, but the last two have been as bad as any team, anywhere.

When the rest of your offense is terrible, the QB's statistics will be terrible. But that is not the same of a good offense making a QB's statistics good.

Accuracy will be hindered by dropped passes, and even with that issue in 2010, he still finished as the 8th highest completion percentage in The NFL, and he finished as the tenth best in 2008.

He has been a good QB, whenever the rest of the offense has been better than worthless.



Not sure where you got the CMP % numbers from 2010...He was 26th (58.2%), ahead of only Fitzpatrick, Collins, Sanchez, Derek Anderson, and Clausen.

He saw 27 of his passes dropped last year. I don't have the league average for drops, but here are the number of drops for the top 4 quarterbacks in completion % in 2010:

Drew Brees: 38 drops(658att, 5.8%)
Peyton Manning: 48 drops(679att, 7.1%)
Philip Rivers: 22 drops(541att, 4.1%)
Tom Brady: 46 drops(492att, 9.3%)

Matt Cassel: 27 (450att, 6%)

To say that Matt Cassel is a victim of drops, is a gross exaggeration. They are a reality for every team.

Last year he faced pressure on 185/519 dropbacks (35.6%), so more frequently. Sure, we may have issues surrounding Matt Cassel, but I wouldn't call it anything out of the ordinary that other quarterbacks don't face on a weekly basis.

chief31
11-16-2011, 07:21 PM
Not sure where you got the CMP % numbers from 2010...He was 26th (58.2%), ahead of only Fitzpatrick, Collins, Sanchez, Derek Anderson, and Clausen.

DOH!!!! That's twice I've had to back up on something today.

I forgot to re-click the specific column when I switched seasons.


He saw 27 of his passes dropped last year. I don't have the league average for drops, but here are the number of drops for the top 4 quarterbacks in completion % in 2010:

Drew Brees: 38 drops(658att, 5.8%)
Peyton Manning: 48 drops(679att, 7.1%)
Philip Rivers: 22 drops(541att, 4.1%)
Tom Brady: 46 drops(492att, 9.3%)

Matt Cassel: 27 (450att, 6%)

To say that Matt Cassel is a victim of drops, is a gross exaggeration. They are a reality for every team.

Last year he faced pressure on 185/519 dropbacks (35.6%), so more frequently. Sure, we may have issues surrounding Matt Cassel, but I wouldn't call it anything out of the ordinary that other quarterbacks don't face on a weekly basis.

The problem has been the extremes. He is plagued with a total failure everywhere around him, for two games, and his numbers suffer.

But then we have a couple of decent games, and Cassel has a good game.

I don't see how you can have watched the last two games, and still think that that kind of thing happens on a regular basis, to even a few offenses every week.

We are as inconsistent as any NFL football team I remember having ever seen.

Just looking at the last game, against Denver, we were decimated by a clock-eating offense that gave us few opportunites, and a single third down dropped pass, or a 3rd & long running play, or a Sack, or a penalty, or a poorly run route is far more costly than it would be for team who is getting the ball back quickly.

Then, once the time is running low, and you find yourself trailing by two scores, it becomes "desperation mode" and we are unable to pass protect well enough for that kind of situation.

It's a run-first offense, and our run game is sporadic, at best, leading to bad third down situations.

And, when you pass as infrequently as we generally do, every single error makes a much bigger mark on the game, than it would for a team that passes 40 times per game.

Our offense has been, either slightly cloudy, or outright blizzard mode.

And the guy inside of that blizzard is always going to be in bad shape.

I have no doubt that Matt Cassel will do very well, should he ever get to play on an offense that is not complete garbage, as ours has been for half of our games this season.

Until then, I see a good QB playing on a horrible offense in most of our games.

Ryfo18
11-16-2011, 07:30 PM
The problem has been the extremes. He is plagued with a total failure everywhere around him, for two games, and his numbers suffer.

But then we have a couple of decent games, and Cassel has a good game.

I don't see how you can have watched the last two games, and still think that that kind of thing happens on a regular basis, to even a few offenses every week.

We are as inconsistent as any NFL football team I remember having ever seen.

Just looking at the last game, against Denver, we were decimated by a clock-eating offense that gave us few opportunites, and a single third down dropped pass, or a 3rd & long running play, or a Sack, or a penalty, or a poorly run route is far more costly than it would be for team who is getting the ball back quickly.

Then, once the time is running low, and you find yourself trailing by two scores, it becomes "desperation mode" and we are unable to pass protect well enough for that kind of situation.

It's a run-first offense, and our run game is sporadic, at best, leading to bad third down situations.

And, when you pass as infrequently as we generally do, every single error makes a much bigger mark on the game, than it would for a team that passes 40 times per game.

Our offense has been, either slightly cloudy, or outright blizzard mode.

And the guy inside of that blizzard is always going to be in bad shape.

I have no doubt that Matt Cassel will do very well, should he ever get to play on an offense that is not complete garbage, as ours has been for half of our games this season.

Until then, I see a good QB playing on a horrible offense in most of our games.


I completely agree with the bolded statement, and pretty much everything else in your post. My purpose for this entire thread is simply that Matt Cassel, in my opinion, will not be the quarterback to lead us to the promised land.

We don't need to get drastic, and dump him and leave the franchise completely lost. But when I look at Tyler Palko and Ricky Stanzi, I'm sorry, I just don't see a long term answer there. Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

I would love for nothing more than for the organization to go after a quarterback in the first round that has had a lot of success on the college level. While that is certainly no guarantee for future success, I think now is the perfect time to make that happen. Matt Cassel will have 3 years left on his contract after this season. I think he and the team's future would greatly benefit from having a legitimate backup that we can look at and say, "This guy has a chance to be our next quarterback."

chief31
11-16-2011, 07:44 PM
I completely agree with the bolded statement, and pretty much everything else in your post. My purpose for this entire thread is simply that Matt Cassel, in my opinion, will not be the quarterback to lead us to the promised land.

We don't need to get drastic, and dump him and leave the franchise completely lost. But when I look at Tyler Palko and Ricky Stanzi, I'm sorry, I just don't see a long term answer there. Maybe they'll prove me wrong, but I doubt it.

I would love for nothing more than for the organization to go after a quarterback in the first round that has had a lot of success on the college level. While that is certainly no guarantee for future success, I think now is the perfect time to make that happen. Matt Cassel will have 3 years left on his contract after this season. I think he and the team's future would greatly benefit from having a legitimate backup that we can look at and say, "This guy has a chance to be our next quarterback."

Ditto, except that I think Matt Cassel CAN lead a good team to great heights.

If you remove To Brady from The Patriots, I think that team is average, at best.

Yet Matt Cassel, who had not started, since high school, was able to take that team to 11-5.

That is getting a good team (Patriots w/o Brady) to overachieve.

Moving here, where the team was clearly outright horrible, and leading this team 10-6, and then getting us to 4-5, while losing the main cog of the mediocre offense, and testing our depth all over the place, is far too impressive to suggest that he is incapable of leading a winner.

Three of his four seasons (including 2011) has had him getting a better record from his team, than they should have gotten.

Get the rest of the offense to play, even decent, and I think Matt Cassel takes this team to better place than where it would be with an average QB.

I think this offense, based on coaching, and specific talent gaps, is so bad that it makes good good players look bad, and would make average players look like they should be driving a bus for a living.

Hopefully though, the offense gets their act together, and helps Palko look like Tom Brady, and we can work with a nice QB controversy to start 2012.

SIC J
11-16-2011, 09:14 PM
I also think the NFL has their own opinion of what a dropped pass is. Last game against the Broncos I had counted 7 dropped passes. The stats at the time counted only 4.

If the ball hits the receiver in the hands or body, it's a dropped pass to me. The NFL doesn't count it that way all the time.

chief31
11-16-2011, 09:18 PM
I also think the NFL has their own opinion of what a dropped pass is. Last game against the Broncos I had counted 7 dropped passes. The stats at the time counted only 4.

If the ball hits the receiver in the hands or body, it's a dropped pass to me. The NFL doesn't count it that way all the time.

Not to mention, The NFL does not even list that statistic. It is done by outside sources.

Three7s
11-16-2011, 10:49 PM
People keep saying the Chiefs are inconsistent. I don't think they're inconsistent. I think they're flat out bad. They get 4 wins, 3/4 against bad QBs and the other being the miracle, and all of a sudden they could be good?

The sad part is this team isn't even beating the bad QBs.(Moore, Tebow) Just face it. The Chiefs beat 4 bad teams and nothing more.

H-townChiefsFan
11-16-2011, 11:30 PM
There's a reason Cassel has been a backup since high school. He doesn't even pass the eyeball test. Never have I watched a Matt Cassel game and thought, "WOW!! This guy is an elite QB." We have all seen what this team can do when it's clicking all all cylinders. If Matt Cassel was an elite QB, he would be able to put this team on his back and at the VERY LEAST, make them competitive.

Matt Cassel is a good backup. His ceiling is a below average starter... which is where he is now.

I like this post. He dont pass the 'ol smell test. :D
Stats are great and all, but enough watching will tell you what you need to know....

Peeeeee-Yeeeeewwww! Somethin stankin...smells like a poo-poo cas(sel)tle! :bananen_smilies046:

Hayvern
11-17-2011, 05:21 PM
There has been a lot of debate regarding Matt Cassel recently. Last year, I was as big a supporter as anyone, defending him as often as possible. This year, I have changed my tone after watching him play. I have my reasons, but I am doing this study solely out of curiousity, and even I don't know the results as I write this post. I just have the data compiled into a spreadsheet (courtesy of ProFootballFocus.com).

Three of the common arguments we hear are this:

1.) Matt Cassel is not accurate enough.
2.) Matt Cassel is cursed by dropped passes.
3.) Matt Cassel is always under too much pressure to succeed.

The data I have in front of me is simply 4 statistics for each team:

1.) Drops
2.) Pass Attempts (when a pass was actually thrown)
2.) # of dropbacks where the quarterback saw pressure.
3.) Total # of Dropbacks

From these, it's easy to determine two percentages for every team:

1.) The percentage of passes dropped (Drops/Attempts)
2.) The percentage of times the quarterback faces pressure (Pressures/Dropbacks)

Here's what I have found...

The league average for percentage of passes dropped is 6.12%. The low is Buffalo (3.42%) and the high is St. Louis (9.04%). The Chiefs are in fact above average in drops at 7.61% (21 drops in 276 attempts). From a precentage standpoint, this is the 5th worst in the league. So we can without a doubt say, the Chiefs drop more passes than the rest of the league, on a per attempt basis.

As far as pressures. The league average is that a quarterback will face pressure 32% of the time. The low is Tennessee (17.9%) and the high is Philadelphia (40.3%). The Chiefs are actually surprisingly below the league average (29.4%) and the 11th best in the league.

So knowing this, what can I say about Matt Cassel? He has more passes dropped than the average QB, but also faces less pressure. How about his personal stats compared to other quarterbacks?

CMP%: 59.5% (23rd)
Yards/Attempt: 6.4 (26th)
QB Rating: 76.6 (24th)

You can look up other stats, but these are easy ones to relate on a per quarterback basis.

My personal opinion of Matt Cassel is that he's serviceable, provided we have an awesome run game. I still think it is time for the Chiefs to spend a 1st round pick on a quarterback, and if anything, groom him to (hopefully) be our quarterback of the future. Matt Cassel, no matter the circumstances of dropped passes or protection, will most likely always be a below average NFL quarterback. Last year was impressive, but I can say without a doubt that it was against one of the easiest passing schedules, and our running game helped him out tremendously.

I just hope this helps clear up confusion as to how many passes get dropped or how much pressure our quarterback is under.

Taking each of these on their own is alright, but let's look at this a little more closely.

So he is 29% likely to face pressure on any given play, yet any given pass play he is likely to have 59% chance of completing a pass for 6.4 yards. I would argue that the low passing rating and the low yardage per pass are also impacted greatly by the pressure, so while the pressure Cassel feels might be lower than the league average, his reaction to that pressure is impacted more than other QBs in the league.

azchiefsfan
11-17-2011, 05:24 PM
Ditto, except that I think Matt Cassel CAN lead a good team to great heights.

If you remove To Brady from The Patriots, I think that team is average, at best.

Yet Matt Cassel, who had not started, since high school, was able to take that team to 11-5.

That is getting a good team (Patriots w/o Brady) to overachieve.

Moving here, where the team was clearly outright horrible, and leading this team 10-6, and then getting us to 4-5, while losing the main cog of the mediocre offense, and testing our depth all over the place, is far too impressive to suggest that he is incapable of leading a winner.

Three of his four seasons (including 2011) has had him getting a better record from his team, than they should have gotten.

Get the rest of the offense to play, even decent, and I think Matt Cassel takes this team to better place than where it would be with an average QB.

I think this offense, based on coaching, and specific talent gaps, is so bad that it makes good good players look bad, and would make average players look like they should be driving a bus for a living.

Hopefully though, the offense gets their act together, and helps Palko look like Tom Brady, and we can work with a nice QB controversy to start 2012.

Exactly!

hometeam
11-18-2011, 10:22 PM
we are so high on dropped passes becuase cassel doesnt put the ball where it is supposed to be.

Chiefster
11-18-2011, 11:44 PM
we are so high on dropped passes becuase cassel doesnt put the ball where it is supposed to be.


Really? I kind of thought when the ball hits the receiver in the hands then that's pretty much where it's supposed to be.

Three7s
11-19-2011, 12:09 AM
Really? I kind of thought when the ball hits the receiver in the hands then that's pretty much where it's supposed to be.
That depends. Is the receiver having to turn his body the opposite direction that he's running? Is he having to dip his hands down or need to jump/dive for the ball? Cassel isn't exactly helping our receivers on most passes.

Chiefster
11-19-2011, 12:32 AM
That depends. Is the receiver having to turn his body the opposite direction that he's running? Is he having to dip his hands down or need to jump/dive for the ball? Cassel isn't exactly helping our receivers on most passes.

Yeah I guess.

ctchiefsfan
11-20-2011, 12:47 PM
My thanks to Ryfo18 for all the good work and interesting statistics.....

Of course there are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics.......

The "Is Cassel any good" threads have been going on since he got here. And many of the posts on the subject are tainted by the size of the contract he was given.

Having been a Chiefs fan specifically and a football fan in general since the late '60s, I have seen a lot of GREAT QBs.....Staubach, Montana, Elway, many more.....They were TRULY GREAT QBs.

There have been many QBs that looked great but only with a certain team and certain coach. These are NOT great QBs. They are QBs that were in the right place at the right time. Cassel was there in New England the year Brady went down.

Cassel is a good QB who will get great stats given the right team, right coach, right schedule. And that kind of QB CAN win playoff games and SuperBowls......IF they have all the right ingredients around them. If they don't, they won't.

GREAT QBs can perform miracles....even with mediocre teams.

Cassel is NOT a GREAT QB.

Our Chiefs need to focus on building a GREAT team while ALWAYS being on the lookout for a potential GREAT QB.

It looks like we are going to probably spend the next 7 weeks getting a decent idea if either Palko or Stanzi have the potential to be a GREAT QB. If neither of them appears to have that potential then Cassel is what we have got and we'll need to continue to focus on building a GREAT team while always being on the lookout for that potentially GREAT QB.

Personally, I expect that either Palko or Stanzi will be traded or released before the first game of the 2012 season.

:chiefs::chiefs::chiefs::chiefs:

TopekaRoy
11-21-2011, 03:31 PM
we are so high on dropped passes becuase cassel doesnt put the ball where it is supposed to be.


Really? I kind of thought when the ball hits the receiver in the hands then that's pretty much where it's supposed to be.


That depends. Is the receiver having to turn his body the opposite direction that he's running? Is he having to dip his hands down or need to jump/dive for the ball? Cassel isn't exactly helping our receivers on most passes.
Ironically, it seems like Bowe hast the most trouble catching passes that hit him right in the numbers or in stride when he is wide open. He usually catches the passes that are a little off and he has to struggle for. I think this is largely due to not concentrating on the easy catches. He's thinking about what his first move will be after he catches the ball. You can't blame Matt for that and it's also something that Bowe has the ability to improve.

Ryfo18
11-21-2011, 03:58 PM
Ironically, it seems like Bowe hast the most trouble catching passes that hit him right in the numbers or in stride when he is wide open. He usually catches the passes that are a little off and he has to struggle for. I think this is largely due to not concentrating on the easy catches. He's thinking about what his first move will be after he catches the ball. You can't blame Matt for that and it's also something that Bowe has the ability to improve.

Here's a look at the dropped pass leaders as well:

Brandon Marshall - 9
Mike Williams - 9
Roddy White - 7
Jerome Simpson - 7
Victor Cruz - 7
Wes Welker - 7
Desean Jackson - 7
Anquan Boldin - 6
Dwayne Bowe - 6
Greg Little - 6
Dane Sanzenbacher - 6
Calvin Johnson - 6

It's pretty clear that the more you are thrown at, the more drops you have. It's a part of the game that happens. Bowe is by no means at the extreme when it comes to dropped passes. Point being, the dropped passes "issue" that the Chiefs have isn't out of the norm.

Hayvern
11-21-2011, 04:01 PM
That depends. Is the receiver having to turn his body the opposite direction that he's running? Is he having to dip his hands down or need to jump/dive for the ball? Cassel isn't exactly helping our receivers on most passes.

Well, the truth is the NFL does not really track dropped passes. When this stat is tracked, it is supposed to be tracked like errors in baseball. If the pass is not well placed, then the pass does not count as a drop. We still have been plagued with dropped passes where the ball was placed on target and was spy dropped. Though this stat does show signs of getting better.

SIC J
11-21-2011, 06:53 PM
I would like to see the breakdown for this year game by game with the pressure he has been under. For instance the 5 games they have lost vs the 4 they won.

Ryfo18
11-21-2011, 07:04 PM
Week 1 vs. Bills (loss): 38 drop-backs, 6 under pressure (15.8%)
Week 2 vs Lions (loss): 24 drop-backs, 6 under pressure (25%)
Week 3 @SD (loss): 26 drop-backs, 6 under pressure (23.1%)
Week 4 vs MIN (win): 35 drop-backs, 15 under pressure (42.9%)
Week 5 @IND (win): 33 drop-backs, 9 under pressure (27.3%)
Week 7 @OAK (win): 30 drop-backs, 6 under pressure (20%)
Week 8 vs SD (win): 37 drop-backs, 9 under pressure (24.3%)
Week 9 vs MIA (loss): 52 drop-backs, 16 under pressure (30.8%)
Week 10 vs DEN (loss): 34 drop-backs, 18 under pressure (52.9%)

Overall in Losses he faces pressure 29.9% of the time, wins 28.9%. Obviously the two games that stand out most are the last two vs MIA (30.8%) and Denver (52.9%!!!). He also saw a lot of pressure in a win against Minnesota (42.9%).

Three7s
11-21-2011, 07:06 PM
If this team knew how to use the screen once in awhile, maybe we could burn these blitzes. When was the last time the Chiefs even executed a screen properly?

Ryfo18
11-21-2011, 07:11 PM
If this team knew how to use the screen once in awhile, maybe we could burn these blitzes. When was the last time the Chiefs even executed a screen properly?

The one to Weddle in week 3? :lol:

Codac
11-21-2011, 07:24 PM
If this team knew how to use the screen once in awhile, maybe we could burn these blitzes. When was the last time the Chiefs even executed a screen properly?

When was the last time Priest was on the field? Thats when. lol

Three7s
11-21-2011, 07:30 PM
When was the last time Priest was on the field? Thats when. lol
It feels like it, but I know we had some nice screens last year with Charles. McCluster should be the perfect screen guy, but it's always so predictable since he's not an every down guy.

Codac
11-21-2011, 07:33 PM
It feels like it, but I know we had some nice screens last year with Charles. McCluster should be the perfect screen guy, but it's always so predictable since he's not an every down guy.

Yeah. McCluster isn't used enough in my opinion. Or used right, at least.