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Jrudi
11-16-2011, 12:34 PM
Just some thoughts, and wanting to hear oppinions....

Not calling for his head, not saying It's going to happen, or I think it should happen, but it almost looks as if Haley is on his was out....

I've heard the reports of a torn relationship between him and Pioli. I've heard the reports, about how he almost got fired because of the poor 1st half in the Indy game. And I have noticed that his personality hase changed (No longer the Fiery Hot head that lights up his players, and gets them motivated like he did last year) I've also noticed the hesitency of Cassel being scared to make mistakes, which I think has to do with the fear of him loosing his job and Haley loosing his. It's almost as if he's walking on eggshells.

So if this happens, and Haley is gone after this season, I was brainstorming ideas of who may take over, or who would be a good fit coaching wise.

Kirk Ferentz from Iowa?? He was in the mix when Pioli hired Haley, has the relationship with Piol, and.....Stanzi (not to mention Moeaki, and possibly one of the OT's that will be available in the draft)

Jeff Fisher?? Good Tenured consistent Head coach, who ran a similar style team in Tennessee for years (Run first, stout D)

Do you let Crennell return to a HC? Urban Myer?? not really sure of any connections, just throwing out the idea

With Haley gone, does Zorn take over as OC??

I know Cowher, Gruden and Billick are available, but not sure if they would want to take our team over. Out of all I could see Gruden the most likely.

Just wanted to get some thoughts on what approach people think Pioli might take (Veteran HC, Promotion from within, College experiment, or 1st time HC)

What are your thoughts?

okikcfan
11-16-2011, 01:09 PM
Well there are a number of people in the pick as head coaches for next season IMO. Brian Schottenheimer, Rob Ryan, Brian Billick, Jon Gruden (maybe), and well Bill Cowher will not go back to coaching in the next few years. I do think Haley has lost his touch, given up or just doesn't know what to do after losing so many of his starters this season. Tho I know his hands are tied reguarding what he has to work with but I also believe coaching is one of the current key problems with the Chiefs today. Have they just lost respect for him, have they just given up, I for one don't know but I do feel a large number of changes have to be made in the offseason including QB. This team even with the injuries are a far better team then what we are seeing. No area of the team can be consistant. This to me all comes down to the coaching. I like Haley, but he seems to have lost his fire.

OPLookn
11-16-2011, 01:18 PM
Well there are a number of people in the pick as head coaches for next season IMO. Brian Schottenheimer, Rob Ryan, Brian Billick, Jon Gruden (maybe), and well Bill Cowher will not go back to coaching in the next few years. I do think Haley has lost his touch, given up or just doesn't know what to do after losing so many of his starters this season. Tho I know his hands are tied reguarding what he has to work with but I also believe coaching is one of the current key problems with the Chiefs today. Have they just lost respect for him, have they just given up, I for one don't know but I do feel a large number of changes have to be made in the offseason including QB. This team even with the injuries are a far better team then what we are seeing. No area of the team can be consistant. This to me all comes down to the coaching. I like Haley, but he seems to have lost his fire.

I think like you that Haley has lost his players and because of that his fire. My guess is that Haley has yelled or pushed his players one to many times and the players just quit on him. Throw the losses on top of that and I think that brings us to the point we're at now with a very calm Haley that doesn't respond because he just doesn't know what to do or what he can do.

The thing I'm really curious about is what happened between the Chargers game and the Miami game? The teams that came out for both looked entirely different.

Jrudi
11-16-2011, 01:21 PM
Well there are a number of people in the pick as head coaches for next season IMO. Brian Schottenheimer, Rob Ryan, Brian Billick, Jon Gruden (maybe), and well Bill Cowher will not go back to coaching in the next few years. I do think Haley has lost his touch, given up or just doesn't know what to do after losing so many of his starters this season. Tho I know his hands are tied reguarding what he has to work with but I also believe coaching is one of the current key problems with the Chiefs today. Have they just lost respect for him, have they just given up, I for one don't know but I do feel a large number of changes have to be made in the offseason including QB. This team even with the injuries are a far better team then what we are seeing. No area of the team can be consistant. This to me all comes down to the coaching. I like Haley, but he seems to have lost his fire.


I thought about Shottenheimer, but I have heard criticism recently about how he doesn't use sanchez right, or put him in the position to be as successful as he could be (which is what I think the chiefs problem is right now) (Not putting our players in a position/system/scheme that benefits or promotes their strengths)

Not sure I could see Rob Ryan here, with the tight ship that Pioli likes to run, especially with the media, I think his brother Rex ruined Rob's shot to be under a manager like Pioli. It would bring to much attention to the Chiefs for Pioli to feel comfortable.

I also feel like Haley has lost his fire. I hope we can find someone who has it (like Jim Harbaugh) I think coaching makes a HUGE difference in the NFL and Harbaugh is a perfect example, the 49ers team didn't change that much from last year to this year, and look as the success that Harbaugh has brought to that franchise, I think it starts with the coaching staff...

#58ChiefsFan
11-16-2011, 01:26 PM
Haley admitted he worked the players too hard in the week leading up to Miami, the following week before the donks he gave them I think two or three extra days off and they came in unprepared from just watching film and not getting in formation.

okikcfan
11-16-2011, 01:37 PM
Haley admitted he worked the players too hard in the week leading up to Miami, the following week before the donks he gave them I think two or three extra days off and they came in unprepared from just watching film and not getting in formation.


Then that in itself if true is nothing but poor coaching skills. We need Canada to take the HC job in 2012 :sFl_canada2:

Yoda
11-16-2011, 01:50 PM
Isn't Haley just 1 year removed from leading KC to a AFC West crown and the playoffs? This year's team has been decimated with injuries. Why not give him another year? But if the Chiefs want start over. That's fine with me!

Jrudi
11-16-2011, 02:10 PM
I think it is poor coaching. I think consistency is good in Football, changing your practice schedules from week to week, makes me think that you are changing your preparation based on the opponents... Ex: "Looking past the Dolphins and the Broncos, Buckling down for the Chargers and Raiders"

When I played, every week had the same structure, on each day of the week you had similar plans, no matter who the opponent was, there weren't any weeks that were "easier or harder" even when we played our rivals.

Yes, we did cater what we covered to focus on our opponents strengths, weaknesses, and schemes, but we never faltered from the structure, and it equated to all 4 seasons of my HS career making deep playoff runs, and 1 State runner up. (I'm not comparing HS football, to NFL, just that I feel consistency within basic structure of preparation in football is important)

texaschief
11-16-2011, 02:11 PM
I've seen the Pioli list of head coaching options twice and I'm not thrilled with any of the names on it.

There is one name that intrigues me a WHOLE lot though...

Pioli's father in-law

okikcfan
11-16-2011, 02:12 PM
Honestly, Haley has 1 year left on his contract and because of the amount of injuries we have had this year I really see him comming back next year unless something drastic happens. It just seems that Haleys fire has burned out and some of us here feel it may be time for a change, tho some will not agree.

Jrudi
11-16-2011, 02:22 PM
Isn't Haley just 1 year removed from leading KC to a AFC West crown and the playoffs? This year's team has been decimated with injuries. Why not give him another year? But if the Chiefs want start over. That's fine with me!

I think it's just the mentality of the "Win Now!" NFL, Coaches don't typically live out the entire term unless they are winning, if a team doesn't have success, it usually if placed on the HC and QB. Just the way it is.

If he could get his fire back I would be all for keeping him around, and I'm not asking for his head, I'm just stating that after some recent observations, it almost seems as if he is on the way out (usually coaches are allowed 2-3 years to implement their plan, this is year 3 for him, and two of the 3 have been unsuccessful) and we have to realize that he really hasn't brought that much talent, most of our core players were drafted by Herm Edwards (Weather we like to admit it or not)


I've seen the Pioli list of head coaching options twice and I'm not thrilled with any of the names on it.

There is one name that intrigues me a WHOLE lot though...

Pioli's father in-law

haha yeah, but I'm not sure Parcell's wants to get back to coaching.

matthewschiefs
11-16-2011, 02:23 PM
I think like you that Haley has lost his players and because of that his fire. My guess is that Haley has yelled or pushed his players one to many times and the players just quit on him. Throw the losses on top of that and I think that brings us to the point we're at now with a very calm Haley that doesn't respond because he just doesn't know what to do or what he can do.

The thing I'm really curious about is what happened between the Chargers game and the Miami game? The teams that came out for both looked entirely different.

I think that Haleys yelling and pushing was GOOD for the team. I don't like that now he just stands there very calm and does not have that same fire that we saw in 09. Look what happend this year when he yelled at Cassel. The rest of that game Cassel went out with a purpose and the offense had something going. If Haley is going to be kept we need to see more of the fired up haley then what we see now.

TopekaRoy
11-16-2011, 04:28 PM
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2011/11/24.jpg
http://cache1.bigcartel.com/product_images/37224220/300.jpg
http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/images/imported/2011/11/25.jpg
:D

Jrudi
11-16-2011, 05:18 PM
Haha nice post, but

1: I don't think he is interested in going back to coaching

and

2: I don't want a someone who would trade an entire crop of draft picks for Ricky Williams haha

TopekaRoy
11-16-2011, 05:33 PM
Haha nice post, but

1: I don't think he is interested in going back to coaching

and

2: I don't want a someone who would trade an entire crop of draft picks for Ricky Williams haha
LOL, I know. I was just kidding.

I don't think Ditka was all that great a coach anyway. He just had a ton of talent on the '85 Bears team. Buddy Ryan was the real key to that team.

I was just doing my meatball Bears fan impression.

Daaa Bears!

Jrudi
11-16-2011, 06:01 PM
Another name I didn't really think of is Gregg Williams, the D-Coordinator for the Saints.

Only problem with that is that he runs a 4-3 and we have built a 3-4 D.

chief31
11-16-2011, 06:19 PM
The only names that trigger any response from me are Cowher and Gruden, and for opposite reasons.

I am a big fan of Bill Cowher, and I despise Gruden.




Isn't Haley just 1 year removed from leading KC to a AFC West crown and the playoffs? This year's team has been decimated with injuries. Why not give him another year? But if the Chiefs want start over. That's fine with me!

Knee-jerk reaction. As stated, it's the "WIN NOW!!!" attitude of fans, and rebuilding is the least efficient way to win now.

I don't get it.

And, unless the rest of our games turn out like the past two, and there truly is some kind of a rift between Haley and Pioli, I think this whole discussion is moot.

But this kind of talk is inevitable, when your team has played as poorly as The Chiefs have during four, of our nine, games.

AkChief49
11-17-2011, 06:09 AM
Would Pioli and Cowher be able to co-exist?

Chiefster
11-17-2011, 07:43 AM
The only names that trigger any response from me are Cowher and Gruden, and for opposite reasons.

I am a big fan of Bill Cowher, and I despise Gruden.





Knee-jerk reaction. As stated, it's the "WIN NOW!!!" attitude of fans, and rebuilding is the least efficient way to win now.

I don't get it.

And, unless the rest of our games turn out like the past two, and there truly is some kind of a rift between Haley and Pioli, I think this whole discussion is moot.

But this kind of talk is inevitable, when your team has played as poorly as The Chiefs have during four, of our nine, games.

...This!

kcvet
11-17-2011, 10:29 AM
the fire that's gone out in him may be attributed to job burn out. could be he's had enough. reached his limit. I can tell by his post game conference's. didn't want him here anyway and was surprised when he was given the job. he's better qualified at the job he had. assistant coach.
for me the Miami game tore it. Haley's gotta go. I can't blame the players. they were picked by him and Pioli for the job. responsibility still lies at the top. period.
im a Cowher fan. always have been. give it to him. other's here have mentioned Shottenheimer. he did build one of the best D's ever seen here back in the 90's. and D's win games and SB's. he's worth consideration as the DC. IMO

okikcfan
11-17-2011, 12:05 PM
the fire that's gone out in him may be attributed to job burn out. could be he's had enough. reached his limit. I can tell by his post game conference's. didn't want him here anyway and was surprised when he was given the job. he's better qualified at the job he had. assistant coach.
for me the Miami game tore it. Haley's gotta go. I can't blame the players. they were picked by him and Pioli for the job. responsibility still lies at the top. period.
im a Cowher fan. always have been. give it to him. other's here have mentioned Shottenheimer. he did build one of the best D's ever seen here back in the 90's. and D's win games and SB's. he's worth consideration as the DC. IMO


I think there may be some truth to the whole Haley/Pioli not getting along, The pressure is on for all of them. Clark can not be a happy camper at this point. Haley may know his time is limited and Shottenheimer was at the monday night game sitting with Clark wearing what appeared to be a Kansas City shirt so one never knows what is being considered behind those closed doors. How they play the remainder of the season will be the biggest factor in what happens down this long lonely road. Clark likes the long term coaches but the question is how much crap is he willing to take before he cuts tie's...

kcvet
11-17-2011, 12:17 PM
I think there may be some truth to the whole Haley/Pioli not getting along, The pressure is on for all of them. Clark can not be a happy camper at this point. Haley may know his time is limited and Shottenheimer was at the monday night game sitting with Clark wearing what appeared to be a Kansas City shirt so one never knows what is being considered behind those closed doors. How they play the remainder of the season will be the biggest factor in what happens down this long lonely road. Clark likes the long term coaches but the question is how much crap is he willing to take before he cuts tie's...

well Pioli claimed on camera there's no rift between them. but the W-L record might change his mind. and your right I don't see Hunt sitting there and taking this much longer. especially if attendance drops off like it did for his late dad. that stadium will not support a loser.

Hayvern
11-17-2011, 01:41 PM
I love these types of discussions.

Unfortunately, Haley is not going anywhere this year. I think the calmness in Haley is largely a product of the crap he has taken over being overly animated the years before.

Usually, the better coaches are those that keep their emotions under control. The players look to you to be their rock, if you are ranting and raving on the sidelines, then they take that queue and run with it. If you get overly animated, then they get overly animated and it removes your head from where it should be... in the game.

Haley has another season to turn it around. The only way Haley is gone after this season is if he decides he has had enough. Honestly, I think Hunt leaves those decisions up to Pioli, that is what he should do, you have to trust your generals. If we had not hired Pioli, we would probably still have King Carl and Squirmin Herman in here.

okikcfan
11-17-2011, 02:36 PM
I love these types of discussions.

Unfortunately, Haley is not going anywhere this year. I think the calmness in Haley is largely a product of the crap he has taken over being overly animated the years before.

Usually, the better coaches are those that keep their emotions under control. The players look to you to be their rock, if you are ranting and raving on the sidelines, then they take that queue and run with it. If you get overly animated, then they get overly animated and it removes your head from where it should be... in the game.

Haley has another season to turn it around. The only way Haley is gone after this season is if he decides he has had enough. Honestly, I think Hunt leaves those decisions up to Pioli, that is what he should do, you have to trust your generals. If we had not hired Pioli, we would probably still have King Carl and Squirmin Herman in here.


As I said earlier Haley having a year left on his contract and hunts past statement I honestly do not feel he will be leaving this year unless some thing drastic happens. And you very well could be right about why he is so quite now compared to earlier but the question has to be and we all wonder why we play really good one game or 4 and turn right around and get embarrased in the next two. The next few games are going to be hard, really hard. If we kept playing the way we had in those 4 games I would have more faith in the next 5. But the last two leaves me to wonder WTF happen here? And if we keep playing the way we did in the last two games we may not have enought QB's to last the season. I would love nothing more than the Chiefs to step up and play as they did that monday night against the Chargers and have Palko kick some NE a&&. Even if we lost I would be happy. All we have to do is compete, thats all.

kcvet
11-17-2011, 02:59 PM
the next 5 games will tell the story and answer a lot of our Q's

Jrudi
11-17-2011, 09:27 PM
Would Pioli and Cowher be able to co-exist?


Don't think so. Cowher would want full control of personnel decisions too, and that will not be happening.


I love these types of discussions.

Unfortunately, Haley is not going anywhere this year. I think the calmness in Haley is largely a product of the crap he has taken over being overly animated the years before.

Usually, the better coaches are those that keep their emotions under control. The players look to you to be their rock, if you are ranting and raving on the sidelines, then they take that queue and run with it. If you get overly animated, then they get overly animated and it removes your head from where it should be... in the game.

Haley has another season to turn it around. The only way Haley is gone after this season is if he decides he has had enough. Honestly, I think Hunt leaves those decisions up to Pioli, that is what he should do, you have to trust your generals. If we had not hired Pioli, we would probably still have King Carl and Squirmin Herman in here.

I don't know I look at both of the Harbaugh brothers, Jim Swartz, and a coach like Rex Ryan, even Mike Tomlin and they are all fiery coaches that have been and are being successful in the league. I thought when Haley was fiery and showed emotion it spread throughout our locker room and put some emotion into our players and we played with a swagger that just punched opponents in the mouth. (similar to all the coaches teams I just mentioned)

I don't see that anymore, our team has taken on his new personality. They play with little to no emotion, and are very lackadaisical, and it's almost like it is back to our attitude when Herm was here with the "Here it goes again" as soon as the other team has any break, it's like we can no longer fight back from those, and we just lie down.

jap1
11-17-2011, 10:20 PM
Don't think so. Cowher would want full control of personnel decisions too, and that will not be happening.



I don't know I look at both of the Harbaugh brothers, Jim Swartz, and a coach like Rex Ryan, even Mike Tomlin and they are all fiery coaches that have been and are being successful in the league. I thought when Haley was fiery and showed emotion it spread throughout our locker room and put some emotion into our players and we played with a swagger that just punched opponents in the mouth. (similar to all the coaches teams I just mentioned)

I don't see that anymore, our team has taken on his new personality. They play with little to no emotion, and are very lackadaisical, and it's almost like it is back to our attitude when Herm was here with the "Here it goes again" as soon as the other team has any break, it's like we can no longer fight back from those, and we just lie down.

Cowher wasnt known for his calm, cool and collected demeanor either ...

Jrudi
11-17-2011, 10:30 PM
Cowher wasnt known for his calm, cool and collected demeanor either ...

That is true

okikcfan
11-18-2011, 12:51 PM
well Pioli claimed on camera there's no rift between them. but the W-L record might change his mind. and your right I don't see Hunt sitting there and taking this much longer. especially if attendance drops off like it did for his late dad. that stadium will not support a loser.


Well let's be honest, Pioli is not going to say they are not getting along, it's bad for the team, the fans and the media would have a hay day with it. The Chiefs have always been quite about everything so we would never know for sure, heck, they won't even tell us what happen to Cassels hand that he needed surgery. I know it's a long shot but I really hope and pray that Palko sparks some fire for this team, lifts the energy level to an all time high. We may not win but if we can just compete I would be happy. Tho our record doesn't show it we are considered one of the worst teams right now, even before Cassels injury. And that is thanks to the last two embarassing games. Instead of fight for first place in the div, we are fighting the Chargers to stay out of last place...:meow: And then there was Tebow

Jrudi
11-18-2011, 01:21 PM
Well let's be honest, Pioli is not going to say they are not getting along, it's bad for the team, the fans and the media would have a hay day with it. The Chiefs have always been quite about everything so we would never know for sure, heck, they won't even tell us what happen to Cassels hand that he needed surgery. I know it's a long shot but I really hope and pray that Palko sparks some fire for this team, lifts the energy level to an all time high. We may not win but if we can just compete I would be happy. Tho our record doesn't show it we are considered one of the worst teams right now, even before Cassels injury. And that is thanks to the last two embarassing games. Instead of fight for first place in the div, we are fighting the Chargers to stay out of last place...:meow: And then there was Tebow


I love this comment!

That is exactly my hopes as well. We need that fire back! We need to be competitive. I think psychology plays a lot into the success of NFL teams. The good teams "KNOW" they are good, and they play with a swagger, they "KNOW" and are confident that they can come back from mistakes that are made.

Our team right now needs that fire back, I think if we can keep that emotion and swagger carried over to next season, and have an off season program like that of last years, we could be a team to watch out for.

OPLookn
11-18-2011, 01:48 PM
I love this comment!

That is exactly my hopes as well. We need that fire back! We need to be competitive. I think psychology plays a lot into the success of NFL teams. The good teams "KNOW" they are good, and they play with a swagger, they "KNOW" and are confident that they can come back from mistakes that are made.

Our team right now needs that fire back, I think if we can keep that emotion and swagger carried over to next season, and have an off season program like that of last years, we could be a team to watch out for.

I don't know it's so much the swagger it's knowing that the guy beside you is going to do their job so you just have to concentrate on yours. When you can't trust the guy beside you to do his job you'll start looking at so many scenarios that you'll fake yourself out and I think that's what's happening to a degree.

okikcfan
11-18-2011, 04:27 PM
Something happen from one game to the next, something was said or done i just dont know. Have they lost faith in Haley or Cassel? I can understand where you comming from OP but it's pretty much the entire team excluding a few players, and to lose so badly at home is the really bad part. We have always put up a fight at home but not this time.

nicfre2011
11-21-2011, 02:32 PM
While I personally would not say I am a Haley-hater, I do have concerns about his ability to manage the team from the head coach position. We seem to continually have issues on the offensive side of the ball and have seen most recently the confusion on the field when plays are called in by Bill Muir, reviewed by Haley, and called into the quarterback by Jim Zorn. While this can probably be done quicker, I think that it would be best if Haley steps back from being involved on the offensive side and worry more about managing the team overall. I guess you could say I think it goes all the way back to when Chan Gailey was fired, then the rumored conflicts with Charlie Weis, then Haley being the playcaller, then delegating that responsibility to Muir…back to Haley being in the sandbag chain of communication.

In reality, I am probably more at odds with a lot of the decisions Scott Pioli has made/not made on the player personnel side than I am at odds with the overall job Haley has done as a head coach. My concern is, at this point in time, the offensive side of the ball should be more settled and I hate to see what seems to be the constant tinkering by multiple parties. IMO it is Haley’s responsibility to find someone that understands his offensive philosophy and can call plays that don’t completely go against that philosophy. Then Haley can worry about improving as a head coach and all of the responsibilities that come from that position.

If Haley is let go, I would hope it is not because of any rumored conflict with Pioli, but more that the front office believes Haley just isn’t ready yet or simply not cut out for the overall job of head coach.

If we make a change (which I highly doubt we will), I would like to see us go in a fresh, new direction. Winston Moss is a name I have thought about as a potential head coaching candidate. He is currently filling the role in Green Bay as Assistant Head Coach/Inside Linebackers coach. I think he has served Green Bay as essentially an overall assistant to Mike McCarthy and the by-product has been that he has had the advantage of basically being groomed as an eventual head coach. I do believe he has been interviewed before in the past by several teams but quite possibly wasn’t ready to take the next step. If he can clearly articulate his plan to consistently field a competitive team year-in and year-out…and be able to clearly define what type of coaching staff he would prefer, I think he could be atleast a solid option to investigate.

There are a couple of assistants/positional coaches that I am very interested in. Tom Clements is currently the quarterbacks coach for Mike McCarthy and while I think McCarthy in obviously involved in the offense, I have to believe that Clements has benefitted from his experience in the Green Bay offensive system, which puts an emphasis on exploiting mismatches…and spreading the ball. I think we have a lot of the pieces necessary already in place to follow a similar offensive philosophy.

On the defensive side of the ball, even though Green Bay has taken a step back this year in their overall defensive performance, I really like the innovative defensive schemes that Dom Capers has brought to Green Bay. It certainly looks like he puts an emphasis on player versatility and instead of trying to fit square pegs in round holes, he tailors the defensive scheme to player strengths. The versatility allows for multiple defensive looks to be thrown at offenses and the ability to field conservative fronts when necessary and attacking, aggressive fronts when the time is right. Darren Perry has spent time under Capers in Green Bay and is currently the Safety Secondary position coach. He made an impact in Dick LeBeau’s zone blitz defense as a safety and has been involved in fielding the innovative 2-4-5 defensive look that Green Bay has had success with. I have tried to look more into the hybrid role that Charles Woodson fills in the Green Bay defense, and I really think Eric Berry could do the same for us when comparing their physical skill sets and ball-hawking skills. Woodson essentially plays a third cornerback/safety role and seems to rarely be deeper than 10 yards in coverage. This allows Capers to take advantage of Woodson’s excellent read-and-react recognition skills and attack the ball both in the run and in coverage.

Also, I might add, if Bill Cowher actually is an option as a head coach hire, he is familiar with Darren Perry and the interesting thing about Clements is he does have a history with the Chiefs. So even with Cowher, Clements and Perry might still be options as offensive and defensive coordinators..and could bring some innovation to Kansas City on both sides of the ball...

Chiefster
11-21-2011, 02:43 PM
Good post reply nicfre! :D

Codac
11-21-2011, 02:46 PM
While I personally would not say I am a Haley-hater, I do have concerns about his ability to manage the team from the head coach position. We seem to continually have issues on the offensive side of the ball and have seen most recently the confusion on the field when plays are called in by Bill Muir, reviewed by Haley, and called into the quarterback by Jim Zorn. While this can probably be done quicker, I think that it would be best if Haley steps back from being involved on the offensive side and worry more about managing the team overall. I guess you could say I think it goes all the way back to when Chan Gailey was fired, then the rumored conflicts with Charlie Weis, then Haley being the playcaller, then delegating that responsibility to Muir…back to Haley being in the sandbag chain of communication.

In reality, I am probably more at odds with a lot of the decisions Scott Pioli has made/not made on the player personnel side than I am at odds with the overall job Haley has done as a head coach. My concern is, at this point in time, the offensive side of the ball should be more settled and I hate to see what seems to be the constant tinkering by multiple parties. IMO it is Haley’s responsibility to find someone that understands his offensive philosophy and can call plays that don’t completely go against that philosophy. Then Haley can worry about improving as a head coach and all of the responsibilities that come from that position.

If Haley is let go, I would hope it is not because of any rumored conflict with Pioli, but more that the front office believes Haley just isn’t ready yet or simply not cut out for the overall job of head coach.

If we make a change (which I highly doubt we will), I would like to see us go in a fresh, new direction. Winston Moss is a name I have thought about as a potential head coaching candidate. He is currently filling the role in Green Bay as Assistant Head Coach/Inside Linebackers coach. I think he has served Green Bay as essentially an overall assistant to Mike McCarthy and the by-product has been that he has had the advantage of basically being groomed as an eventual head coach. I do believe he has been interviewed before in the past by several teams but quite possibly wasn’t ready to take the next step. If he can clearly articulate his plan to consistently field a competitive team year-in and year-out…and be able to clearly define what type of coaching staff he would prefer, I think he could be atleast a solid option to investigate.

There are a couple of assistants/positional coaches that I am very interested in. Tom Clements is currently the quarterbacks coach for Mike McCarthy and while I think McCarthy in obviously involved in the offense, I have to believe that Clements has benefitted from his experience in the Green Bay offensive system, which puts an emphasis on exploiting mismatches…and spreading the ball. I think we have a lot of the pieces necessary already in place to follow a similar offensive philosophy.

On the defensive side of the ball, even though Green Bay has taken a step back this year in their overall defensive performance, I really like the innovative defensive schemes that Dom Capers has brought to Green Bay. It certainly looks like he puts an emphasis on player versatility and instead of trying to fit square pegs in round holes, he tailors the defensive scheme to player strengths. The versatility allows for multiple defensive looks to be thrown at offenses and the ability to field conservative fronts when necessary and attacking, aggressive fronts when the time is right. Darren Perry has spent time under Capers in Green Bay and is currently the Safety Secondary position coach. He made an impact in Dick LeBeau’s zone blitz defense as a safety and has been involved in fielding the innovative 2-4-5 defensive look that Green Bay has had success with. I have tried to look more into the hybrid role that Charles Woodson fills in the Green Bay defense, and I really think Eric Berry could do the same for us when comparing their physical skill sets and ball-hawking skills. Woodson essentially plays a third cornerback/safety role and seems to rarely be deeper than 10 yards in coverage. This allows Capers to take advantage of Woodson’s excellent read-and-react recognition skills and attack the ball both in the run and in coverage.

Also, I might add, if Bill Cowher actually is an option as a head coach hire, he is familiar with Darren Perry and the interesting thing about Clements is he does have a history with the Chiefs. So even with Cowher, Clements and Perry might still be options as offensive and defensive coordinators..and could bring some innovation to Kansas City on both sides of the ball...

Once again we need a "Like" button. Intriguing thoughts. I like it.:D

Chiefster
11-21-2011, 02:48 PM
Once again we need a "Like" button. Intriguing thoughts. I like it.:D

It's called "Rep"; add to his...I did. :D

matthewschiefs
11-21-2011, 03:10 PM
While I personally would not say I am a Haley-hater, I do have concerns about his ability to manage the team from the head coach position. We seem to continually have issues on the offensive side of the ball and have seen most recently the confusion on the field when plays are called in by Bill Muir, reviewed by Haley, and called into the quarterback by Jim Zorn. While this can probably be done quicker, I think that it would be best if Haley steps back from being involved on the offensive side and worry more about managing the team overall. I guess you could say I think it goes all the way back to when Chan Gailey was fired, then the rumored conflicts with Charlie Weis, then Haley being the playcaller, then delegating that responsibility to Muir…back to Haley being in the sandbag chain of communication.

In reality, I am probably more at odds with a lot of the decisions Scott Pioli has made/not made on the player personnel side than I am at odds with the overall job Haley has done as a head coach. My concern is, at this point in time, the offensive side of the ball should be more settled and I hate to see what seems to be the constant tinkering by multiple parties. IMO it is Haley’s responsibility to find someone that understands his offensive philosophy and can call plays that don’t completely go against that philosophy. Then Haley can worry about improving as a head coach and all of the responsibilities that come from that position.

If Haley is let go, I would hope it is not because of any rumored conflict with Pioli, but more that the front office believes Haley just isn’t ready yet or simply not cut out for the overall job of head coach.

If we make a change (which I highly doubt we will), I would like to see us go in a fresh, new direction. Winston Moss is a name I have thought about as a potential head coaching candidate. He is currently filling the role in Green Bay as Assistant Head Coach/Inside Linebackers coach. I think he has served Green Bay as essentially an overall assistant to Mike McCarthy and the by-product has been that he has had the advantage of basically being groomed as an eventual head coach. I do believe he has been interviewed before in the past by several teams but quite possibly wasn’t ready to take the next step. If he can clearly articulate his plan to consistently field a competitive team year-in and year-out…and be able to clearly define what type of coaching staff he would prefer, I think he could be atleast a solid option to investigate.

There are a couple of assistants/positional coaches that I am very interested in. Tom Clements is currently the quarterbacks coach for Mike McCarthy and while I think McCarthy in obviously involved in the offense, I have to believe that Clements has benefitted from his experience in the Green Bay offensive system, which puts an emphasis on exploiting mismatches…and spreading the ball. I think we have a lot of the pieces necessary already in place to follow a similar offensive philosophy.

On the defensive side of the ball, even though Green Bay has taken a step back this year in their overall defensive performance, I really like the innovative defensive schemes that Dom Capers has brought to Green Bay. It certainly looks like he puts an emphasis on player versatility and instead of trying to fit square pegs in round holes, he tailors the defensive scheme to player strengths. The versatility allows for multiple defensive looks to be thrown at offenses and the ability to field conservative fronts when necessary and attacking, aggressive fronts when the time is right. Darren Perry has spent time under Capers in Green Bay and is currently the Safety Secondary position coach. He made an impact in Dick LeBeau’s zone blitz defense as a safety and has been involved in fielding the innovative 2-4-5 defensive look that Green Bay has had success with. I have tried to look more into the hybrid role that Charles Woodson fills in the Green Bay defense, and I really think Eric Berry could do the same for us when comparing their physical skill sets and ball-hawking skills. Woodson essentially plays a third cornerback/safety role and seems to rarely be deeper than 10 yards in coverage. This allows Capers to take advantage of Woodson’s excellent read-and-react recognition skills and attack the ball both in the run and in coverage.

Also, I might add, if Bill Cowher actually is an option as a head coach hire, he is familiar with Darren Perry and the interesting thing about Clements is he does have a history with the Chiefs. So even with Cowher, Clements and Perry might still be options as offensive and defensive coordinators..and could bring some innovation to Kansas City on both sides of the ball...

Great post.

I will say that I like Todd Haley. I just don't think that he is doing good enough right now to be to upset if he is shown the door. Just to many times that the Chiefs have not shown up in games.

Should we move on. I don't think it's a long shot that we will seeing the rumors about being ready to fire Haley during the bye week. I agree we need a fresh face. I myself don't want to go after someone like Cowher unless we also bring in a young guy who will be the guy to take over for him in a few years. Cowher just isn't going to stay that long with a team. He's way closer to the end of his coaching days then he is to the start. If Cowher is brought in for a young assistant to learn from then ok. But I would rather go with a younger face. To be honest I think if Haley is let go we will see Josh Mcdanels. I don't no if I am to upset about that or not. Mcdanels got a head coaching job WAY to soon. But most Head coaches are much better in there 2nd go around. I think the same thing will happen with Haley. You learn from your first gig. I still hope that Haley goes out wins the rest of our games and is not only kept around but signed to an extinson after getting a playoff win or two.

nicfre2011
11-21-2011, 03:13 PM
Once again we need a "Like" button. Intriguing thoughts. I like it.:D

Thanks guys. I have been a "lurker" here for awhile, but wanted to finally jump into the pool.

Personally, I think we are to the point as a franchise where Pioli needs to start thinking outside of the "Patriot way".

Plus I think Romeo Crennel's preferred scheme the Fairbanks-Bullough system, aka, the "bend-but-don't-break" system is starting to fall by the wayside as a standard defensive front.

What really got me thinking about that point is when Bill Belichick blew up his defensive front by bringing in players like Albert Haynesworth, Andre Carter, and Mark Anderson who are all more familiar with (and probably best suited) to the 4-3 defensive front. Now Haynesworth was a failure but not from a scheme or skill set standpoint, but from an attitude standpoint. Carter has been a huge positive for the Patriots this year as essentially their only consistent pass rusher. Anderson is what he is - a rotational 4-3 pass rusher.

I can't help but think that maybe there is something to the idea that the F-B system used by Parcells and later by Belichick and Crennel is actually being exposed because it relies on specialized roles along the front...and those specialized roles provide very little in the way of pass rush...and Bill realized he couldn't manufacture any pass rush from his linebackers anymore in a 3-4 traditional front. It is very interesting that he brought in the 4-3 players that he did.

Now he is dealing with a secondary that he has also blown up and is really turning into what appears to be the overall weakness.

While I think Crennel has helped alot in teaching the fundamental basics of the 3-4 to a defensive roster that not too long ago was strictly 4-3....I think we need to take the next step and while Crennel may not rely soley on the F-B system, I think we are definitely overbalanced to the "bend-but-don't-break" system.

nicfre2011
11-21-2011, 03:27 PM
This isn't related to what we are just talking about, and maybe I am overreacting, but this comment by Pioli bothered me...



Pioli talks about an organization losing so many people (like the Patriots did with Pioli, Charlie Weis, Romeo Crennel, etc) and competing every year. "I'm not sure why Patriots fans are disillusioned at different times because they're going to be in the hunt every year because of the same reasons. They still have great ownership, they still have the best head coach in the NFL and a lot of good people there that are finding players. It's still a special place. Don't worry, Patriots fans."


from arrowheadpridedotcom

I wish Pioli was more content to take a backseat to Haley and the coaching staff, but as secretive as he seems to demand his front office and coaching staff to be at times, he sure does seem to like to be interviewed. I would prefer he is more of the guy behind the curtains that directs schematic and personnel comments to the coaches. I don't know why it bothers me that the KC GM is singing songs of praise to Belichick and calling him the best coach in the NFL. Obviously I am not saying he isn't or shouldn't be called that...but something about the GM of OUR team reminiscing about Belichick, when we have a head coach...who might not be the best in the league, but is our head coach right now. It would have been nice if Pioli could have given a compliment to Haley in that interview when talking about Belichick with something like..."I see alot of the same qualities in Todd Haley and just like the New England Patriots fans have a high standard, and rightfully so, I want the Kansas City Chiefs fans to have the same high standards".

Instead it was like Pioli was looking through an old photo album.

I remember when reporters asked Pioli why they didn't go after Aubrayo Franklin and he proceeded to provide a dissertation on how Franklin didn't fit our defensive scheme. That's fine, but let Crennel or Haley say that.

Jrudi
11-21-2011, 04:16 PM
Replying to a couple of posts....

The one about looking to some of the GB assistants, I really like that idea, All of the one's listed would more than likely be sufficient options, probably would prefer the Assistant to McCarthy, or Capers, and all would hopefully bring the "winning attitude" with them.

I don't like the Post about Josh McDaniels! in less than 2 seasons he single handily tore apart the Denver Franchise because of his ego (and people complain about Haley's old ego), McDaniels would have a hard time getting his head through the door's of Arrowhead. Would not like that one bit, and probably wouldn't want to be a Chiefs fan if he was the coach. He sent Denver into Re-Building mode when they had a fairly solid foundation there just because he showed up and wanted to do it "his way".

I also hope Haley can turn it around, I want the old Haley back to bring some emotion back into our games. If he doesn't return, then I would not be surprised or sad to see him let go. But we've got to get that fire back!

matthewschiefs
11-21-2011, 04:20 PM
Replying to a couple of posts....

The one about looking to some of the GB assistants, I really like that idea, All of the one's listed would more than likely be sufficient options, probably would prefer the Assistant to McCarthy, or Capers, and all would hopefully bring the "winning attitude" with them.

I don't like the Post about Josh McDaniels! in less than 2 seasons he single handily tore apart the Denver Franchise because of his ego (and people complain about Haley's old ego), McDaniels would have a hard time getting his head through the door's of Arrowhead. Would not like that one bit, and probably wouldn't want to be a Chiefs fan if he was the coach. He sent Denver into Re-Building mode when they had a fairly solid foundation there just because he showed up and wanted to do it "his way".

I also hope Haley can turn it around, I want the old Haley back to bring some emotion back into our games. If he doesn't return, then I would not be surprised or sad to see him let go. But we've got to get that fire back!

Yeah I don't like the McDaniles thing much either but it's just what I think will happen based on his history with the pats. I think he will at least be looked at if we let haley go.

nicfre2011
11-21-2011, 04:30 PM
Replying to a couple of posts....

The one about looking to some of the GB assistants, I really like that idea, All of the one's listed would more than likely be sufficient options, probably would prefer the Assistant to McCarthy, or Capers, and all would hopefully bring the "winning attitude" with them.

I don't like the Post about Josh McDaniels! in less than 2 seasons he single handily tore apart the Denver Franchise because of his ego (and people complain about Haley's old ego), McDaniels would have a hard time getting his head through the door's of Arrowhead. Would not like that one bit, and probably wouldn't want to be a Chiefs fan if he was the coach. He sent Denver into Re-Building mode when they had a fairly solid foundation there just because he showed up and wanted to do it "his way".

I also hope Haley can turn it around, I want the old Haley back to bring some emotion back into our games. If he doesn't return, then I would not be surprised or sad to see him let go. But we've got to get that fire back!

On your comment about Josh McDaniels…I agree. I am not a fan of McDaniels at all. I think he is best served at this point honing his abilities as offensive coordinator. I can’t help but think as you alluded to, the success associated with McDaniels from his days in New England has made him think he is personally much more capable than maybe his actual experience level. He came into Denver and got rid of Mike Nolan because he “wasn’t comfortable with the type of 3-4 scheme that Nolan ran”. Personally, this shows me a quality I fear at times might be exhibited by Scott Pioli as well – they are only comfortable with things they were familiar with in New England. Being a GM or head coach IMO, means being able to think outside of the box and not be pigeonholed into trying to replicate the past.

I guess the bigger issue I would have if Haley is fired and McDaniel is brought in is not necessarily with McDaniel himself, but would be with Scott Pioli. To me this move would prove to me that my frustration with Pioli and his sometimes determination as I mentioned previously to replicate his past experience with New England here in Kansas City unfortunately might have some merit afterall. I want the Chiefs to have their own unique identity…and one blended with what worked/works in New England, Pittsburgh, Green Bay, etc. is what I would prefer.

I don’t want to hear interviews with Pioli and see personnel moves that have the feel of Pioli looking back through a photo album all of the time.

Codac
11-21-2011, 04:34 PM
It's called "Rep"; add to his...I did. :D

He has officially been "Rep"ed. :D

nicfre2011
11-21-2011, 07:22 PM
He has officially been "Rep"ed. :D

:yahoo: ....ok, I admit I am new...LOL.....what does being "rep'ed" mean? Hopefully it's a good thing and I haven't been blacklisted already! haha!

Codac
11-21-2011, 07:27 PM
:yahoo: ....ok, I admit I am new...LOL.....what does being "rep'ed" mean? Hopefully it's a good thing and I haven't been blacklisted already! haha!

There is a little balance about the name of the person. That is how you give someone some Rep. Do that when you like what someone says. It is the like button of this place. I'm not gonna lie I just learned about it as well. lol

nicfre2011
11-22-2011, 09:38 AM
There is a little balance about the name of the person. That is how you give someone some Rep. Do that when you like what someone says. It is the like button of this place. I'm not gonna lie I just learned about it as well. lol

Cool! Thanks bud! I will keep that in mind!

Chiefster
11-22-2011, 05:23 PM
He has officially been "Rep"ed. :D


You da man! :lol: