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View Full Version : Why all the Fire Haley BS?



Seek
11-17-2011, 01:43 PM
I see mulitiple threads about the end of Haley and how he should be fired. I know there are people who wont give him the light of day because he does things different. My question is that all the excuses I see about firing Haley but there is no mention of Romeo. That defense last week was horrific and Romeo should be thrown under the bus just as much as Haley, but wait, He is a very likeable guy and It is the Head coaches problem not the DC.

Has Haley Lost the team. Yeah, to injury. Three key Players that were responsible for the turn around last season were out by the 1st series in the second game. Our first round pick was hurt for the first four games. The team responded and won 4 games in a row and was in first place and everyone was happy, when two more Key Players got hurt. The loss of McGraw and Arenas while not major was major for the game they were out, because Miami exploited their back ups.

Haley has taken Bowe and DJ and turned their careers around to pro-bowl status, he took a team lacking in talent and won the division last year, and facing some major injuries, fought through adversity to start winning again when More Adversity struck the team.

Say what you all want about Haley. Yeah He is not the most likeable guy and does things many of us wonder WHY but the fact of the matter is that he is missing Talent, and he is trying to make due with what he has.

I think the players play hard for him, and he gets the best out of his talent. I would be upset if we do not give him one more year to get his team healthy and a chance to add more talent to this team. Maybe it is his fault we are missing some talent, but I am not sold on that being Haley's fault yet.

matthewschiefs
11-17-2011, 02:46 PM
First off I myself like Todd Haley. I think that he can be a good coach. But right now he SHOULD be fired for the job that he's doing this season.

Yes injuries have hurt this team. But that's something every team has to deal with. With the Injuries do you really think that the Dolphins are 31-3 better then the Chiefs? Denver had there 1st TWO string rbs go down sunday. Do you think that this team should be able to have there 3rd string guy come in and run like the starter? I don't. Yes Romeo is the DC but it's the head coaches job to oversee the DC and the OC.

Todd Haley did a great job last season. I praised him all last season. I even thought that he should have got more Coach of the year buzz then what he got. But all coaches know that this is a what have you done for me lately business. Lately Haley has not done a good job. When you start the season the way we did. The you get blown out at home by a 0-7 football team. Then it's not BS to here your job questioned.

okikcfan
11-17-2011, 02:52 PM
I like haley, I liked his fire, his sometimes questionable trick play, his going for it on 4th and 1 or 2. You never knew what he was going to do and I liked that. He got people fired up and they played well. But he just seems to have lost that fire and it showed in the last two games. Something is missing in this team and they have to find it and get it back. It is one thing to just lose a game, it is another to be completely embarrased. I want that fire back......

texaschief
11-17-2011, 03:04 PM
Lack of preparation. The entire preseason and the first 6 games showed it. Oakland lost more than we won. The only game of the season that I saw a good game plan executed was against San Diego... and that was a loss if not for a fluke snap exchange.

The guy doesn't know how to get his team ready to play. PERIOD. He benefited from having Crennel and Weiss last season against the weakest schedule in the league and then because of, again, a lack of preparation, they got blown the #uck out by Baltimore at home.

The excuses have run out.

honda522
11-17-2011, 04:49 PM
I am back and forth on this Haley ordeal. Team doesn't look ready at all for most of the games theyve played really. Hell even against oakland we didn't score much offensively.

Every notice how the defense feeds on the offense? If the O can move the ball defense gets pumped.

Ultimatly he is responsible for getting the team prepped to play.

azchiefsfan
11-17-2011, 04:57 PM
I would concur with him not having the team prepared for games. He simply cannot get these guys on the same page with any consistency. I also teeter between "he's got to go" and "wait a minute, this guy can pull it off". After the 4 game win streak, I thought he had turned the team around and we had a slim chance at the playoffs-and I thought Haley was fantastic. Now here we are in a 2 game slide against 2 teams there is no excuse to lose to and I'm teetering back to "he's got to go". I really don't want to see him fired, but if he can't turn this thing around and salvage at least an 8-8 season, he needs to exit the building.

Seek
11-17-2011, 05:01 PM
First off I myself like Todd Haley. I think that he can be a good coach. But right now he SHOULD be fired for the job that he's doing this season.

Yes injuries have hurt this team. But that's something every team has to deal with. With the Injuries do you really think that the Dolphins are 31-3 better then the Chiefs? Denver had there 1st TWO string rbs go down sunday. Do you think that this team should be able to have there 3rd string guy come in and run like the starter? I don't. Yes Romeo is the DC but it's the head coaches job to oversee the DC and the OC.

Todd Haley did a great job last season. I praised him all last season. I even thought that he should have got more Coach of the year buzz then what he got. But all coaches know that this is a what have you done for me lately business. Lately Haley has not done a good job. When you start the season the way we did. The you get blown out at home by a 0-7 football team. Then it's not BS to here your job questioned.

What team is missing their starting Qb, Their best offensive weapon in Charles, Their starting Pro-bowl Safety. Their Starting TE, and is doing better than 4-5....There is none! So the logic of Every team has injuries is BS. Yes every team has injuries but not KEY injuries to four starters, and then injuries to the those back ups.

Oh don't forget this is happening to a team that is not all that talented as it is. The best talent are the players hurt.

Hayvern
11-17-2011, 05:05 PM
Lack of preparation. The entire preseason and the first 6 games showed it. Oakland lost more than we won. The only game of the season that I saw a good game plan executed was against San Diego... and that was a loss if not for a fluke snap exchange.

The guy doesn't know how to get his team ready to play. PERIOD. He benefited from having Crennel and Weiss last season against the weakest schedule in the league and then because of, again, a lack of preparation, they got blown the #uck out by Baltimore at home.

The excuses have run out.

My issues with Haley are well documented.

1. Arrogance, to think that you can be both Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator on a team like this is not helpful to the team, that is arrogance.

2. Attitude, his attitude has sucked in the past, screaming at guys and swearing at them for issues that are really his. For instance, earlier this season there were issues getting the plays in, Haley was pissed at everyone, even Cassel who was ultimately downstream from him. Don't get pissed about that stuff, just get it fixed.

3. Game Prep, sorry, I just don't think this guy preps well for games, one on one, he is a great coach, he does wonders for receivers, he has turned around player's careers like Seek mentioned, but overall, his ability to game plan, execute that plan and his prep for changes to the plan has been lacking. Seriously, I don't think anyone can deny that game plan execution has not been a problem with this team.

Having said all of that, and also with the understanding that I am not a huge Haley fan to begin with, I do not believe you can fire a coach that took you to the playoffs last year. Sorry, that is rarely done. Last year this team exceeded everyone's expectations which is abundantly evident by the fact that even at the start of the season no one expected this team to get anywhere.

We still have a lot of work to do. OL and QB should be our mantra going into 2012.

Seek
11-17-2011, 05:13 PM
Lack of preparation. The entire preseason and the first 6 games showed it. Oakland lost more than we won. The only game of the season that I saw a good game plan executed was against San Diego... and that was a loss if not for a fluke snap exchange.

The guy doesn't know how to get his team ready to play. PERIOD. He benefited from having Crennel and Weiss last season against the weakest schedule in the league and then because of, again, a lack of preparation, they got blown the #uck out by Baltimore at home.

The excuses have run out.

Lack of preparation or lack of talent. How do you prepare our 4th string safety and 4th string CB to compete against Brandon Marshall. Starting corners have problems doing that. You just used Crennel as his excuse. Why didn't Crennel put Flowers or Carr on Marshall all game instead of just removing Washington and putting Langford on Marshal instead. Why was Crennel playing a Base 2 deep against the Broncos last week instead of stacking the line knowing they were not going to throw the ball.

Last year they did better than anyone predicted. Everyone knows that. They beat bad teams and beat some good teams. They lost to teams that had better talent. Our offensive line got destroyed by any team that had a good defensive front 7. They have still all year.

How do you prepare for something someone can not physically do?

matthewschiefs
11-17-2011, 05:16 PM
What team is missing their starting Qb, Their best offensive weapon in Charles, Their starting Pro-bowl Safety. Their Starting TE, and is doing better than 4-5....There is none! So the logic of Every team has injuries is BS. Yes every team has injuries but not KEY injuries to four starters, and then injuries to the those back ups.

Oh don't forget this is happening to a team that is not all that talented as it is. The best talent are the players hurt.

The 0-7 Dolphins came in missing there starting qb and BLEW the chiefs out. 0-7. Again do you really think that the Dolphins are 31-3 better. Do you think the Lions are 48-3 better? Do you? I don't. Even with the injuries. There not that much better. I understand the injuries and Yes Haley does deserve a little bit of a break. But 31-3, 41-7 letting a 3rd sting guy run all over us AT HOME. To go along with 48-3 on the road is far past that break. It's not just that the team is losing that puts Haley on the hot seat. It's the fact that there not even showing up to games far to often. And we have not even got to the toughest parts of our schedule. If Haley can get this team playing up to there talent then I will be back on board. But right now I have little to no faith in Haley. This team has just looked far to bad this season. If and yes that's a big IF Haley is let go then I don't think that you can really say that he didn't deserve his pink slip.

matthewschiefs
11-17-2011, 05:21 PM
2. Attitude, his attitude has sucked in the past, screaming at guys and swearing at them for issues that are really his. For instance, earlier this season there were issues getting the plays in, Haley was pissed at everyone, even Cassel who was ultimately downstream from him. Don't get pissed about that stuff, just get it fixed.


I think that pissed off Haley if far better. Just look what happend when he got pissed and got into it with Cassel on the sideline. Cassel got a fire lit under his but and went out and had his best game of the season. A lot of the guys on this team respond to that type of coaching. I think that the fact that Haley has been the kinder Haley as off late is part of the reason that he is not having the same affect on this team that he once was. I think we need that haley back.

Seek
11-17-2011, 05:22 PM
2. Attitude, his attitude has sucked in the past, screaming at guys and swearing at them for issues that are really his. For instance, earlier this season there were issues getting the plays in, Haley was pissed at everyone, even Cassel who was ultimately downstream from him. Don't get pissed about that stuff, just get it fixed..

Just want to hit on this topic. He has not acted this way all year except for one game. He did act like this his first year towards scrubs on the team not performing.

The one game this year, Cassell actually instigated the argument with his frustrations on the lack to timing the play calls are coming in, and has visibly shown this frustration every game. The delay in calling plays is not Haley and if he was to take over the play calling you all would be calling for his head then.

He has actually become a players coach this year, and the media is trashing him for being too soft with the players.

Hayvern
11-17-2011, 06:03 PM
Just want to hit on this topic. He has not acted this way all year except for one game. He did act like this his first year towards scrubs on the team not performing.

The one game this year, Cassell actually instigated the argument with his frustrations on the lack to timing the play calls are coming in, and has visibly shown this frustration every game. The delay in calling plays is not Haley and if he was to take over the play calling you all would be calling for his head then.

He has actually become a players coach this year, and the media is trashing him for being too soft with the players.

Don't get me wrong, I am not asking for the pissed off Haley, I am saying that if you are going to start screaming at someone, then scream at the right people. Getting into it with your quarterback because the QB is calling you out on your faliures of getting the plays called in should result in a "Yeah, I am aware there is a problem there and we are going to work it out" and not something like "I know the ****ing problem, go mind your own business."

Seriously though, the biggest problem there is attitude, Haley can be pissed off about the speed plays are being called in, but it is his job to correct the problem, it is an ongoing issue still, time to make a change somewhere in the chain, and no, it should not be Haley calling the plays, but if he needs to make an OC change he should.

chief31
11-17-2011, 06:41 PM
Lack of preparation. The entire preseason and the first 6 games showed it. Oakland lost more than we won. The only game of the season that I saw a good game plan executed was against San Diego... and that was a loss if not for a fluke snap exchange.

The guy doesn't know how to get his team ready to play. PERIOD. He benefited from having Crennel and Weiss last season against the weakest schedule in the league and then because of, again, a lack of preparation, they got blown the #uck out by Baltimore at home.

The excuses have run out.

NO! We are not giving Herm another chance!

:lol:

2010chiefs
11-17-2011, 09:57 PM
I wouldn't mind staying with Haley as long as it's with A DIFFERENT QB and A REAL OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR!

azchiefsfan
11-17-2011, 10:02 PM
Ha ha ha, hee hee hee...:beat_DeadHorse:. Just because you say it over and over, it doesn't make it anymore true or make anymore sense.

josh1971
11-17-2011, 10:50 PM
Real offensive coordinator, OL, and either get the right players on D who can initiate a pass rush, or scrap this scheme and get something that WORKS.

texaschief
11-18-2011, 12:08 AM
What team is missing their starting Qb, Their best offensive weapon in Charles, Their starting Pro-bowl Safety. Their Starting TE, and is doing better than 4-5....There is none! So the logic of Every team has injuries is BS. Yes every team has injuries but not KEY injuries to four starters, and then injuries to the those back ups.

Oh don't forget this is happening to a team that is not all that talented as it is. The best talent are the players hurt.

uh, the team that just beat us benched their starting QB and lost their top TWO RBs. Ty Warren was lost for the year and they traded their top WR to St. Louis. Pretty much the same boat.

texaschief
11-18-2011, 12:11 AM
NO! We are not giving Herm another chance!

:lol:

:lol: I don't want Herm back.

I WILL say, however that Herm never had this kind of talent on his teams and the best players on this team are Herm era draft picks... just sayin.

matthewschiefs
11-18-2011, 01:16 AM
:lol: I don't want Herm back.

I WILL say, however that Herm never had this kind of talent on his teams and the best players on this team are Herm era draft picks... just sayin.

Spoting talent was not something the Herm couldn't do. It was the game planing managing that talent that made him a horrible coach. IMO

doobs_05
11-18-2011, 02:12 AM
Didn't Charlie Weis leave because of Haley?

AussieChiefsFan
11-18-2011, 04:44 AM
Didn't Charlie Weis leave because of Haley?

Dont remind me. I wish he was still with us

pojote
11-18-2011, 11:08 AM
All I have to say, if Haley has to go, Pioli should too. But, I don't want a rebuilding year either. This team has a lot of top level talent, that you don't want to waste in a rebuilding year.

Hayvern
11-18-2011, 11:09 AM
Didn't Charlie Weis leave because of Haley?

Well that cannot be proven nor disproven, Weis and Haley both say it was because Weis wanted to be closer to home.

okikcfan
11-18-2011, 01:22 PM
We just have to remember that the grass is not always greener on the other side, Herm Edwards? The problem as we all know with replacing Haley comes replacing all the coaches as well when our new coach takes over and getting rid of Pioli I feel would be a big mistake. Nobody is perfect, (Jackson) but for the most part I feel Pioli has done well, even by getting Haley. Tho I have been some what disapointed with Pioli"s FA pick ups. As I said before what ever this team has lost, they need to find it. Tebow is not a very good QB. But, he has brought that team to life, they have faith and it showed last night. I just hope Palko or Stanzi can do that for us. Wishful thinking? Ya never know, just sayin....

Jrudi
11-18-2011, 01:54 PM
Just saw some posts about defending Haley due to all of our injuries.... Last year there was a team that had injuries that ended their season of their Starting Saftey, Starting Running Back, A Captain of their Defense and Starting Inside LB, An Elite level TE, A Starting OT, and A Starting OLB, not to mention a handful of more players that were significant gameday contributors, Not to mention their Best Defensive player (woodson), and veteran WR going down in the Super Bowl....That team was the Green Bay Packers, and we all know how their season ended. Now The lack of depth is not Haley's fault, but Green Bay had to deal with injuries, and they prepared their team accordingly, and had guys step in an step up.

Also I have seen posts that said the media is now harping on him for being soft... I've never heard one word from the media about him being to soft on the players, I had stated he lost his fire because of myself observing his demeanor on the sidelines during games. He just stands there now, with a blank look on his face, no emotion, just saddens me to know what he used to be like, and the emotion and swagger that spread throughout our locker room when he was like that.

texaschief
11-18-2011, 02:31 PM
Spoting talent was not something the Herm couldn't do. It was the game planing managing that talent that made him a horrible coach. IMO

Haley hasn't done any better in the game planning aspect and at least Herm had good drafts. All I'm saying is that if we're going to base our opinions on whether a coach is good solely on game planning, Haley should be out... as should have Herm.

In my opinion, Herm at least brought more to the team because of his talent evaluation. That's all I'm saying.

TopekaRoy
11-18-2011, 04:56 PM
There's been a lot of talk about Haley not being as "fiery" or "passionate" as he was. Here are my thoughts on the subject.

In my opinion, very good teams don't need a fiery coach to be successful. They have the talent to win and compete and respond best to a strictly disciplined routine. Level headed coaches who intellectually identify problem areas and make adjustments or work to correct mistakes do well with very good teams.

Teams that are mediocre to begin with can be made to play "over their heads" with a fiery, passionate coach. Players feed off of that emotion and it gets their adrenaline going, gets them "fired up." We see this in play all the time in "rivalry games" where the 4th place team often beats the first place team. But emotion can only take you so far.You can't substitute emotion for strength, size, endurance and knowledge of basic good play. Eventually, like a narcotic. the team begins to build up an immunity to all the screaming and arm waving and just tunes it out.

Last year, the Chiefs were a mostly mediocre team with very good players at a few key positions. Haley effectively used emotion to get the most out of his players and they responded well. This year, he has not only lost starters at key positions, he has lost several of his best players on the team. He was fiery last year because he expected more out of his players and he knew they could deliver. I wonder (and this is just speculation on my part) if he is more laid back now because he knows these guys are physically incapable of doing what Charles, Carr (and now Cassel) can do, and he realizes that ranting and raving will not get any more out of players who are already "doing the best that they can."

Don't misunderstand me. You still need to push every player, regardless of how good they are, to constantly improve and be the best that they can be, but you can't teach size (although players can "bulk up" to some extent) and after about 23 or so, players are about as strong or as fast as they are going to get, minus the use of performance enhancing drugs.

I'm not giving Haley a pass on game management or having the team prepared, but as far as being "fiery" and emotional, I don't think that makes much of a difference at this point. We have lost too much talent and we don't have the depth that the Green Bay packers have. Very few teams do. That's not a coaching problem; it's a player problem.

How good would this team be if we had just lost, say, Moeoki and Siler and all our other starters where healthy? It's impossible to say for sure, but my guess is we wouldn't be talking about firing Haley right now.

okikcfan
11-18-2011, 07:49 PM
I wonder (and this is just speculation on my part) if he is more laid back now because he knows these guys are physically incapable of doing what Charles, Carr (and now Cassel) can do, and he realizes that ranting and raving will not get any more out of players who are already "doing the best that they can."


That could be or sound as if he was just giving up, and as a HC that would be unacceptable for any reason. :sAng_scream: :beat_DeadHorse:

ctchiefsfan
11-20-2011, 11:41 AM
I think all this talk of firing Haley is VASTLY PREMATURE.

Lets be honest about his record....

In 2009 he took a team that was in complete disarray and while there were some encouraging moments.....beating the SuperBowl Champion Steelers, first 2 game winning streak since 2007, beating the Donks in the final game of the year to keep them out of the playoffs....overall at 4-12 the season was a big disappointment.

In 2010, he took advantage of a soft schedule to lead us to 10-6 and the AFC West Championship. How much of that was Haley? The schedule? I don't claim to know, But I will bet anyone a month's supply of :toast2: that Herm couldn't have done it.

This year we have been just flat out POUNDED by injuries and the simple truth is that we are not a talented enough team to overcome the sheer volume of injuries to key players that we have sustained this year.

And now we have lost Cassel.

Haley is in the middle of the third year of a 4 year contract.

His first year was spent cleaning up the mess that Carl and Herm made.

The second year was a great success although it WAS greatly helped by a weak schedule.

This year is a disaster caused by the strike and injuries.

As far as I am concerned the jury is still out on Haley. But I firmly believe that after getting us to the playoffs last year and with this season ruined by injuries, Haley is entitled to one more year.

We see a lot of players truly shine in the last year od a contract....looking for that Big Score on the new contract. I would expect the same from Haley.

If next year he can't get us to the playoffs and at least make the playoff game a "nail-biter" then it's time for him to go.

:chiefs::chiefs::chiefs::chiefs:

Vandelay
11-20-2011, 12:23 PM
It's because we have been blown out way to many times, and have not been prepared to play a high school team in those games.

TopekaRoy
11-21-2011, 03:18 PM
I think all this talk of firing Haley is VASTLY PREMATURE.

Lets be honest about his record....

In 2009 he took a team that was in complete disarray and while there were some encouraging moments.....beating the SuperBowl Champion Steelers, first 2 game winning streak since 2007, beating the Donks in the final game of the year to keep them out of the playoffs....overall at 4-12 the season was a big disappointment.

In 2010, he took advantage of a soft schedule to lead us to 10-6 and the AFC West Championship. How much of that was Haley? The schedule? I don't claim to know, But I will bet anyone a month's supply of :toast2: that Herm couldn't have done it.

This year we have been just flat out POUNDED by injuries and the simple truth is that we are not a talented enough team to overcome the sheer volume of injuries to key players that we have sustained this year.

And now we have lost Cassel.

Haley is in the middle of the third year of a 4 year contract.

His first year was spent cleaning up the mess that Carl and Herm made.

The second year was a great success although it WAS greatly helped by a weak schedule.

This year is a disaster caused by the strike and injuries.

As far as I am concerned the jury is still out on Haley. But I firmly believe that after getting us to the playoffs last year and with this season ruined by injuries, Haley is entitled to one more year.

We see a lot of players truly shine in the last year od a contract....looking for that Big Score on the new contract. I would expect the same from Haley.

If next year he can't get us to the playoffs and at least make the playoff game a "nail-biter" then it's time for him to go.

:chiefs::chiefs::chiefs::chiefs:
Excellent post I agree with all of it. My guess is that Haley gets a pass this year(deserved or not) because of all of the injuries and the "tough" schedule. We should have a significantly easier schedule next year. We will see what Haley can do with his best players back, a full preseason to prepare and some upgrades through the draft and free agency. It will be the last year of his contract so it will be "sink or swim" time
and that's when he will be on the hot seat.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some changes with the assistant coaches, but hopefully the existing caches can make some adjustments because turnover at OC or DC will just set us that much further back and when healthy, this team is too close to being really good to have to deal with any setbacks next year.

azchiefsfan
11-21-2011, 03:36 PM
Yeah, ctchiefsfan hit it on the head. That is exactly what I think as well, to the "T". I would add that the 4 game win streak probably made me over-anxious and optimistic. I said, after JC went down, I would be satisfied(though not happy) with a 6-10 season. I started to expect more after the win streak. It pains me to say, but it is time to develop the second stringers for some depth next year. Even if we could rally for a playoff spot, we wouldn't be a better team for it. It's time to work on building for next year. Let's get Kellen Moore from BSU and let him learn under Cassel for a couple years.

ctchiefsfan
11-22-2011, 06:31 PM
My thanks to TopekaRoy and azchiefsfan for the kind words.

Like I imagine most folks here, I'm not thrilled with the way this season seems to be heading and the 4 game winning streak certainly was a thrill! But even if we lose every other game, I just can't seem to view it as being all Haley's fault.

He pretty much started the season with 3 strikes against him.

1) Tough schedule.

2) The strike.

3) devastating injuries.

Some would blame the injuries on Haley, and surely he shares some of the blame for them, but with prep time shortened by the strike, he tried something a little different as far as conditioning. A gamble if you will. And while it didn't turn out well, I think it was a gamble worth taking. One of those "looks good on paper, turns into a pile of dog crap" type deals. But given the tough schedule we were facing I think he took a reasonable risk.

If we were in the boat we are now and had not had the injuries, then I would be pretty PO'd at Haley right now, but after how we did last year, I think that between the schedule, strike and injuries I think Haley is entitled to a "pass" this year, regardless how the rest of the season goes.

That said, I think that next year he needs to understand that his job is going to be on the line.

Jrudi
11-23-2011, 03:15 PM
Excellent post I agree with all of it. My guess is that Haley gets a pass this year(deserved or not) because of all of the injuries and the "tough" schedule. We should have a significantly easier schedule next year. We will see what Haley can do with his best players back, a full preseason to prepare and some upgrades through the draft and free agency. It will be the last year of his contract so it will be "sink or swim" time
and that's when he will be on the hot seat.

I wouldn't be surprised to see some changes with the assistant coaches, but hopefully the existing caches can make some adjustments because turnover at OC or DC will just set us that much further back and when healthy, this team is too close to being really good to have to deal with any setbacks next year.


I know you said turnover at OC or DC would be a setback, but what are anyone's thoughts on Jim Zorn becoming the OC? It would be a promotion from within so not to much should change, but I'm just not sure if Bill Muir is the answer...

texaschief
11-23-2011, 03:41 PM
Here are the results from 7 of the last 15 games the Chiefs have played.

34-3
31-3
48-3
41-7
30-7
31-10
31-0

The Chiefs have been outscored 246-33 in those 7 games.

Like I said... lack of preparation. Injuries don't excuse Haley from the results at the end of last season against good teams or how unprepared they looked during the preseason or their blowout loss to Buffalo in week one. There are NO excuses to be had.

azchiefsfan
11-23-2011, 03:46 PM
Here are the results from 7 of the last 15 games the Chiefs have played.

34-3
31-3
48-3
41-7
30-7
31-10
31-0

The Chiefs have been outscored 246-33 in those 7 games.

Like I said... lack of preparation. Injuries don't excuse Haley from the results at the end of last season against good teams or how unprepared they looked during the preseason or their blowout loss to Buffalo in week one. There are NO excuses to be had.

I have disagreed with you before, but that is exactly right. I like Haley, but it is getting difficult to defend him.

matthewschiefs
11-23-2011, 04:41 PM
Here are the results from 7 of the last 15 games the Chiefs have played.

34-3
31-3
48-3
41-7
30-7
31-10
31-0

The Chiefs have been outscored 246-33 in those 7 games.

Like I said... lack of preparation. Injuries don't excuse Haley from the results at the end of last season against good teams or how unprepared they looked during the preseason or their blowout loss to Buffalo in week one. There are NO excuses to be had.


THIS


Last season there were enough wins to get by with all the blow out losses. This year YES there have been injuries but this team is not just losing games they are not even showing up for them. I will ask again does anyone on here REALLY think that Buffalo is 41-7 better then us. Or that Miami is 31-3 better then us even with the injuries. (and again BTW miami was without there starting qb while we still had ours)

I praised Haley for the job that he did a season ago. I defended Haley all the offseason when people tried to say what this team did last year was just a fluke. But I said if this team looks horrible I will not make excuses I'm not. If this team was loseing hard tough fought games that's one thing but this team is not showing up ready to play. That's way diffrent. Haley deserves to be fired. He's not doing a good job. He doesn't deserve that big of a break.

Bike
11-27-2011, 12:14 AM
I know you said turnover at OC or DC would be a setback, but what are anyone's thoughts on Jim Zorn becoming the OC? It would be a promotion from within so not to much should change, but I'm just not sure if Bill Muir is the answer...
Can ANYBODY be an OC under Haley? The problem is not the OC (although it is definetly part of the problem) - the problem is the HC.

hardcorechiefsfan
11-27-2011, 12:24 AM
The problem is the players! It is not the HC's fault if the team loses. The team can motivate themselves "if" they want to win.
What is going to happen if they decide to can Haley? They will get another HC and the chiefs will still lose. What then? Can him too and hire someone else????

Bike
11-27-2011, 12:27 AM
The problem is the players! It is not the HC's fault if the team loses. The team can motivate themselves "if" they want to win.
What is going to happen if they decide to can Haley? They will get another HC and the chiefs will still lose. What then? Can him too and hire someone else????
Wow. And I thought I had no knowledge of football!

texaschief
11-27-2011, 04:18 AM
Wow. And I thought I had no knowledge of football!

:lol: ya, that was pretty inexcusable.

wolfpack
11-27-2011, 11:57 AM
Injuries,injuries,injuries, dont want to hear it. Didnt the packers have half their team on ir last year and still win it all? The pats are full of injuries this year and are doing fine.
Haily maybe is the problem but the root is Hunt/Pioli for not getting good backups. Might have to spend money,clarkie.

chief31
11-27-2011, 12:15 PM
Can ANYBODY be an OC under Haley? The problem is not the OC (although it is definetly part of the problem) - the problem is the HC.

The HC was a surprising success just a year ago. The thing that changed is the OC.

Rather that is because of Haley, or Weiss, is a mystery.

At least to those who are not ready to guess and act like our guess is fact.

With Gailey, we pretty much know that Haley was at "fault". But Weiss said the it was his own decision, and was not about Haley at all.



The problem is the players! It is not the HC's fault if the team loses. The team can motivate themselves "if" they want to win.
What is going to happen if they decide to can Haley? They will get another HC and the chiefs will still lose. What then? Can him too and hire someone else????

You can have all the greatest players, at every single position. But, if the coaching is bringing a failure of a gameplan for those players to execute, then those super players are going to fail, by executing the failure of a plan.

matthewschiefs
11-28-2011, 12:27 AM
Don't think that anyone can saying fireing Haley is BS after that. He's supose to be an offensive coach and this offense is a freaking Joke. HALEY NEEDS TO GO NOW!!!!!!!!!!! Romeo can't do much worse of a job then what Haley is

Bike
11-28-2011, 12:31 AM
Don't think that anyone can saying fireing Haley is BS after that. He's supose to be an offensive coach and this offense is a freaking Joke. HALEY NEEDS TO GO NOW!!!!!!!!!!! Romeo can't do much worse of a job then what Haley is
This offense is a fracking clown show.

Seek
11-28-2011, 12:20 PM
Don't think that anyone can saying fireing Haley is BS after that. He's supose to be an offensive coach and this offense is a freaking Joke. HALEY NEEDS TO GO NOW!!!!!!!!!!! Romeo can't do much worse of a job then what Haley is

realistically, do you guys really think anyone can call an offense with no running game, due to an injry, a below average offensive line, and no QB.

I guess we could try to run the Tebow offense, but they have an offensive line who can block.

Seriously, realistically what are you expecting. Chicken Salad made from chicken poo.

matthewschiefs
11-28-2011, 02:17 PM
realistically, do you guys really think anyone can call an offense with no running game, due to an injry, a below average offensive line, and no QB.

I guess we could try to run the Tebow offense, but they have an offensive line who can block.

Seriously, realistically what are you expecting. Chicken Salad made from chicken poo.

We had our starting QB against the 0-7 Dolphins who didn't have theres 31-3 dolphins at arrowhead

We had our starting RB at arrowhead against the bills 41-7 bills.

This team started the year getting blown out before the injuries had piled up. IT'S NOT JUST INJURIES. This team is comeing to games NOT READY TO PLAY. I will ask again do you really think the Dolphins have 31-3 more talent then the Chiefs do? So far no one has been able to answer yes to that.

chief31
11-28-2011, 07:18 PM
Don't think that anyone can saying fireing Haley is BS after that. He's supose to be an offensive coach and this offense is a freaking Joke. HALEY NEEDS TO GO NOW!!!!!!!!!!! Romeo can't do much worse of a job then what Haley is

I can.

No Cassel, no Charles? No offense.

I am going to have a top-notch framer start building me a house, but I am going to cut off one of his hands, and then, a little later, I am going to take away his other hand.

Stop by and tell him what a loser he is because he is unable to get the job done without his most important tools.

ctchiefsfan
11-28-2011, 07:30 PM
There is just no way I can blame this disaster of a season on Haley. Strike. Injuries. Schedule. You name it.

He deserves another year, but he needs to know that next year his job is on the line.

okikcfan
11-28-2011, 08:39 PM
Haley will be here next year, The question who will the OC and QB be? Only time will tell. It's time to go Bear hunting!

matthewschiefs
11-28-2011, 09:42 PM
I can.

No Cassel, no Charles? No offense.

I am going to have a top-notch framer start building me a house, but I am going to cut off one of his hands, and then, a little later, I am going to take away his other hand.

Stop by and tell him what a loser he is because he is unable to get the job done without his most important tools.

I will ask again Do you really think the Dolphins are 31-3 better then the Chiefs. Even when we had our starting QB and they didn't. Do you think there 31-3 better?

The Bills 41-7 we had Charles Cassel and berry some not alot granted.

We knocked out the first 2 string Broncos rbs THEY HAD INJURIES TO and they RAN ALL OVER OUR D.

This is not a team that is just loseing games. This is a team that is like in the herm days NON Competitive FAR FAR to often. That's why Haley needs to go. If he's not getting this team ready to play then he's not doing his job

#58ChiefsFan
11-28-2011, 10:14 PM
realistically, do you guys really think anyone can call an offense with no running game, due to an injry, a below average offensive line, and no QB.

I guess we could try to run the Tebow offense, but they have an offensive line who can block.

Seriously, realistically what are you expecting. Chicken Salad made from chicken poo.

I'm looking for an OC that is smart enough to know after 10 now 11 games that sending McCluster between the tackles is a dumb *** idea. An OC that is smart enough to know that you can pass more than seven yards on first down and that when you run Jones twice up the middle for six yards the other team knows it's a pass play coming. An OC that can call a play where on said third down the routes are not behind the first down hoping for a couple YAC. Bill Muir is a terrible coordinator and should ****ing resign at the seasons end and admit he sucks.

2010chiefs
11-28-2011, 10:45 PM
I say promote Romeo Crennel to HC who will have no problem assigning the Offensive duties to a proven Offensive Coordinator. Will not get in his way!

chief31
11-28-2011, 11:14 PM
I will ask again Do you really think the Dolphins are 31-3 better then the Chiefs. Even when we had our starting QB and they didn't. Do you think there 31-3 better?

Nope.


The Bills 41-7 we had Charles Cassel and berry some not alot granted.

Nope.


We knocked out the first 2 string Broncos rbs THEY HAD INJURIES TO and they RAN ALL OVER OUR D.

This is not a team that is just loseing games. This is a team that is like in the herm days NON Competitive FAR FAR to often. That's why Haley needs to go. If he's not getting this team ready to play then he's not doing his job

Strange things happen at the start of seasons, and even sometimes during the regular season.

The Rams beat The Saints handily a few weeks ago, and I don't think they are a better team than The Saints.

Tom Brady blew a big lead by throwing four INTs in a game, but I don't think he is a terrible QB.

The Chiefs defense got shredded by The Broncos (#1 Rushing offense in The NFL) and played light's out against The Steelers.

Yes. The bad surprises have out-weighed the good. But then, I think Charles and Berry make wins of our first game against The Chargers, The Dolphins game, The Broncos game, and The Steelers game.

I think Charles, alone, makes the difference for at least three of those games.

In that case, after starting 0-2, this is an 8-3 team, with a game lead on The Raiders, who we have already beaten once.

Being "unprepared" is a direct result of not having your primary tools.

ctchiefsfan
11-28-2011, 11:33 PM
Yup!

matthewschiefs
11-28-2011, 11:52 PM
The Rams beat The Saints handily a few weeks ago, and I don't think they are a better team than The Saints.

Tom Brady blew a big lead by throwing four INTs in a game, but I don't think he is a terrible QB.

Those things happened once. We have see 5 blow outs. Things happen that should happen in the nfl all the time. But when they happen time and time again it's just a sign that's what your allowing to happen.



The Chiefs defense got shredded by The Broncos (#1 Rushing offense in The NFL) and played light's out against The Steelers.

To me that's the thing. This team has shown they can play with some good teams even with the injuries that we have had. But against a 0-7 dolphins team we see 31-3. Even with the injuries this team has talent to compete but they are not far to often.

The Broncos might have had the number 1 rushing game but they lost there top TWO rbs in that game. THEY HAD INJURIES TO. Did they let that get them blown out time and time again. No instead there 3RD STRING guy came in and ran all over us. Our starting Defense. That tells me that even with injuries they are managing.



I think Charles, alone, makes the difference for at least three of those games.

In that case, after starting 0-2, this is an 8-3 team, with a game lead on The Raiders, who we have already beaten once.
Charles was a big loss I get that. I understand that. I will say again that the injuries should give Haley a bit of a break. But getting blown out time and time again not being ready to play is FAR TO MUCH of a break for me.


Being "unprepared" is a direct result of not having your primary tools. [/COLOR][/FONT]

Then why is it that we can compete against some teams and not others. The Stellers are a FAR better team then the Dolphins. We even had anther injury since we played the Dolphins so if it was just the injuries shouldn't the Stellers have killed us as well? It's not just the injuries it's this team is not being prepared to play on gameday. That goes on the head coach. He's not doing the job and he needs to go.

pojote
11-29-2011, 11:51 AM
I don't know for sure, but, can a HC make Barry Richardson block? Piscitelli cover? Jackson make a sack? TJ gain extra yards? Palko throw accurately long shots?
A HC can make a team look better than it is, but a lack of personnel you just can't avoid.

Seek
11-29-2011, 01:41 PM
see to me, I thought the coaching staff did a good job this week. If we had Cassel we probably won. If we had Cassel and Charles we would have won. If we had Cassel, Charles, and Berry, Wow.. If we had Cassel, Charles, Berry and Moeaki... Cya Pittsburgh Fans quit coming to Arrowhead because you get dominated there.

Trust me, I have been on the anti McCluster band wagon all year. I was one of the first pulling that wagon but the Chiefs were literally calling a hurry up offense with the personel on the field. The players looked over at the coaches and got the plays like it was a college game. Subbing out Mr. I can get tackled by a finger, would have forced a delay allowing the Steelers defense to get set and prepare. Which is where the Chiefs struggled all game.

azchiefsfan
11-29-2011, 01:47 PM
I will admit to being completely confused by the Chiefs this year. They can play like they're headed for the Super Bowl playing a good team one week and then lose to the worst team in the league the next-in a massive blowout. I don't think it's personnel. What, the players decide they are going to play one week then take a day off onfield the next? No way! This is coaching, pure and simple. I don't know what the answer is. I really would hate to see Haley go and start another 2-3 year project, but he clearly does not know how to get these guys on the same page game-in and game-out.

chief31
11-29-2011, 07:46 PM
Those things happened once. We have see 5 blow outs. Things happen that should happen in the nfl all the time. But when they happen time and time again it's just a sign that's what your allowing to happen.

Four, not five.

Two were at the tragic start, one to The Patriots, and one to a streaking Dolphins team.

We held The Patriots to 10-3 at halftime. They came to play that game, and just fell apart to a top-notch team.

And we got blown out three times in 2010, with all of our best players on the field.

But I expect to look pretty bad, pretty often, because I do not think think this team is any good with the players we have lost to injury.


To me that's the thing. This team has shown they can play with some good teams even with the injuries that we have had. But against a 0-7 dolphins team we see 31-3. Even with the injuries this team has talent to compete but they are not far to often.

The Broncos might have had the number 1 rushing game but they lost there top TWO rbs in that game. THEY HAD INJURIES TO. Did they let that get them blown out time and time again. No instead there 3RD STRING guy came in and ran all over us. Our starting Defense. That tells me that even with injuries they are managing.

Denver is living off of a good blocking scheme, mixed with the element of confusion that comes with the unorthodox style of offense that they are using.

It's a gimmick, and it caught us off guard. Not that I think this team is good enough to win games with all the players lost.


Charles was a big loss I get that. I understand that. I will say again that the injuries should give Haley a bit of a break. But getting blown out time and time again not being ready to play is FAR TO MUCH of a break for me. Then why is it that we can compete against some teams and not others. The Stellers are a FAR better team then the Dolphins. We even had anther injury since we played the Dolphins so if it was just the injuries shouldn't the Stellers have killed us as well? It's not just the injuries it's this team is not being prepared to play on gameday. That goes on the head coach. He's not doing the job and he needs to go.

Even The Dolphins game doesn't really fall into your "Not prepared to play" file.

They played a strong first half on defense. It was 14-3.

The problem is that the offense was far more dependent upon Charles, and have discovered that they are not very good without him.

The defense has been good, but inconsistent.

When you have a poor offense, and a defense that is inconsistent, you will look tough in some games, like a Bears team, and you when the defense doesn't play so great, you can expect to get blown out.

Again, I think it was foolish to overlook that this offense was so dependent upon a HB.

But that is a single mistake, no matter how major, and I think everybody we have learned from that mistake.

Rather that means drafting some Gawdy-numbers QB, or investing in an o-line that can do good with lesser HBs, and protect a QB and the "pocket", the lesson of relying so heavily on a RB should be learned.

I hate that the lesson is a whole season of terrible offense, but I trust the lesson has been learned.

Bike
11-30-2011, 07:05 PM
I don't know for sure, but, can a HC make Barry Richardson block? Piscitelli cover? Jackson make a sack? TJ gain extra yards? Palko throw accurately long shots?
A HC can make a team look better than it is, but a lack of personnel you just can't avoid.
Ah, isn't the HC responsible for the players he puts on the field? Doesn't he draft these players, or at least have a say in the players he coaches? A lack of personnel has everything to do with the management of the team - this includes the HC.

Canada
11-30-2011, 07:14 PM
I see mulitiple threads about the end of Haley and how he should be fired. I know there are people who wont give him the light of day because he does things different. My question is that all the excuses I see about firing Haley but there is no mention of Romeo. That defense last week was horrific and Romeo should be thrown under the bus just as much as Haley, but wait, He is a very likeable guy and It is the Head coaches problem not the DC.

Has Haley Lost the team. Yeah, to injury. Three key Players that were responsible for the turn around last season were out by the 1st series in the second game. Our first round pick was hurt for the first four games. The team responded and won 4 games in a row and was in first place and everyone was happy, when two more Key Players got hurt. The loss of McGraw and Arenas while not major was major for the game they were out, because Miami exploited their back ups.

Haley has taken Bowe and DJ and turned their careers around to pro-bowl status, he took a team lacking in talent and won the division last year, and facing some major injuries, fought through adversity to start winning again when More Adversity struck the team.

Say what you all want about Haley. Yeah He is not the most likeable guy and does things many of us wonder WHY but the fact of the matter is that he is missing Talent, and he is trying to make due with what he has.

I think the players play hard for him, and he gets the best out of his talent. I would be upset if we do not give him one more year to get his team healthy and a chance to add more talent to this team. Maybe it is his fault we are missing some talent, but I am not sold on that being Haley's fault yet.

Haley is the head coach and he is the one responsible for this mess. Sure, you cant blame him for injuries...I can however point the finger at him when I look at the face that we have 1 TD in 4 games. That is unacceptable...especially for a guy who apparently has fought the idea of an offensive coordinator since day 1. As for Romeo...did u watch the first half of the Patriots game?? The defense was the only thing that kept us in it that long. You cant go 3 and out 9 times a game and then blame the defense for giving up too many points. While suffering the injuries we have sustained, I expect a drop off in performance...but 1 TD in 4 games is just bad coaching. Haley had done things his way and it has led us to 4-7 with at least 4 major blowouts this season. Haley made his bed, now its time to lie in it. I dont mind the guy as a coach and I will have no complaints if he is still here next season, but I wont be upset if he isnt.

Canada
11-30-2011, 07:16 PM
* IMO he is not the only one to blame...the man sitting on the $33 million check book should be taking some heat for not replacing the injured players we lost early in the year.

No replacement for Berry, Charles or Moeaki...unacceptable

Chiefster
11-30-2011, 07:18 PM
Haley is the head coach and he is the one responsible for this mess. Sure, you cant blame him for injuries...I can however point the finger at him when I look at the face that we have 1 TD in 4 games. That is unacceptable...especially for a guy who apparently has fought the idea of an offensive coordinator since day 1. As for Romeo...did u watch the first half of the Patriots game?? The defense was the only thing that kept us in it that long. You cant go 3 and out 9 times a game and then blame the defense for giving up too many points. While suffering the injuries we have sustained, I expect a drop off in performance...but 1 TD in 4 games is just bad coaching. Haley had done things his way and it has led us to 4-7 with at least 4 major blowouts this season. Haley made his bed, now its time to lie in it. I dont mind the guy as a coach and I will have no complaints if he is still here next season, but I wont be upset if he isnt.

Absolutely!

Good reply! Rep!

ctchiefsfan
11-30-2011, 07:34 PM
As usual Canada has valuable comments. I expect Haley back next year because I am willing to cut him some slack for this horrible season when taking into account last years 10-6 Championship, the strike, and the injuries. IMO that earns him a "pass" for this year's disaster. But if he is back next year I'll be expecting not only a playoff appearance, but either a playoff win or at the very least a nail-biting game.

I like Haley and I still think he has the potential to get us where we want to go, but the total ineptitude of the offense is starting to bother me. We've got Orton now and as far as I am concerned we had better start seeing the offense score some points.

Canada
11-30-2011, 07:59 PM
As usual Canada has valuable comments. I expect Haley back next year because I am willing to cut him some slack for this horrible season when taking into account last years 10-6 Championship, the strike, and the injuries. IMO that earns him a "pass" for this year's disaster. But if he is back next year I'll be expecting not only a playoff appearance, but either a playoff win or at the very least a nail-biting game.

I like Haley and I still think he has the potential to get us where we want to go, but the total ineptitude of the offense is starting to bother me. We've got Orton now and as far as I am concerned we had better start seeing the offense score some points.Who me?? :D :sFl_canada2:

ctchiefsfan
11-30-2011, 08:16 PM
Yeah you!!!!!! A REAL Chiefs fan. I've never known you to fall for any of the bandwagons. You don't scream for heads when things go wrong and you keep a level head when things go right. I tip my hat!

chief31
11-30-2011, 08:22 PM
* IMO he is not the only one to blame...the man sitting on the $33 million check book should be taking some heat for not replacing the injured players we lost early in the year.

No replacement for Berry, Charles or Moeaki...unacceptable

Well, the guys who have replaced them have been decent.

Say what you want about Piscatelli, and McGraw, but neither has been completely terrible. And Arenas has been awfully good since we have been running so much man coverage.

Then there's Jackie Battle. I mean, Thomas Jones is still a very skilled Rb and Battle is out-performing him by a wide margin.

Hard to expect that any other Charles replacement would do much better. And that is including that McCluster was supposed to be our backup JC and hasn't been able to do much in that capacity.

I think we have some decent guys filling in. But I think that Charles' abilities hid the problems of our offense, and that special ability is irreplaceable.

And Berry is a serious talent too. While the guys who have filled in are doing a good job (in my opinion), they are a step down.

I think the whole problem is the design and coaching of our offense. And yes... that falls directly in the lap of Todd Haley. And our OC situation only puts more of that negative focus on Haley.

But I am hopeful that a very big lesson will be learned from this season.

If so, and we start working on a better offensive design, then JC may be able to get us some serious attention next season, as he has been unreal, even with some serious deficiencies on our offense.

Say we get this O-line working together and actually looking good running, and throwing..... Then we add Jamaal Charles and Matt Cassel back into the fold, and the ceiling becomes very, very high for 2012.

We are going to have pretty high draft position. And, so long as we use that positioning on building the current team for the immediate future, instead of an investment for life after Todd Haley, then we stand to gain more talent to this team (on the field) than any team in The NFL... hands down.

The last thing I would want, as I am looking forward, is to deny this team, Haley included, the opportunity to "put it all together" for 2012, and start a whole new project.

That is what he is here for. And I am ok with considering 2011 a major learning experience.

____________________________________________

By the way, Canada....

VERY nice post!

Hayvern
12-01-2011, 04:48 AM
I can.

No Cassel, no Charles? No offense.

I am going to have a top-notch framer start building me a house, but I am going to cut off one of his hands, and then, a little later, I am going to take away his other hand.

Stop by and tell him what a loser he is because he is unable to get the job done without his most important tools.

While I see your point, your analogy is way off here. It would be more like you have a contract, a contractor that was mediocre at best, but he had some decent managers, and good help, so he you hired him.

Then, right before he started your house, the good workers and managers left. Some of them quite, others were injured. The contractor ran out and got some other guys off the street to help out, but they screwed up your house anyway. Now, is it his fault that his people left or got injured, no, but he is still responsible.

Hayvern
12-01-2011, 05:02 AM
Look, all teams deal with injury, some better than others. I am not a Haley fan, never have been, but I expect the man to live through the rest of his contract at least, he has one more season to show what he can do.

Ultimately, this team is not a very good team, we have no depth, I think it still goes back to moves that Edwards and Peterson made. In 8 years, this team has not seriously addressed one of the biggest problems we have, offensive line.

We are not a good team, we have not been a good team for some time. Last year was more of a fluke, it was a poor team playing above their ability, everyone else saw it, we just enjoyed it.

As much as I do not like Haley, I would rather have him continue along, I have more confidence in him than what I did in Edwards, only a little though.

Chiefster
12-01-2011, 08:21 AM
Look, all teams deal with injury, some better than others. I am not a Haley fan, never have been, but I expect the man to live through the rest of his contract at least, he has one more season to show what he can do.

Ultimately, this team is not a very good team, we have no depth, I think it still goes back to moves that Edwards and Peterson made. In 8 years, this team has not seriously addressed one of the biggest problems we have, offensive line.

We are not a good team, we have not been a good team for some time. Last year was more of a fluke, it was a poor team playing above their ability, everyone else saw it, we just enjoyed it.

As much as I do not like Haley, I would rather have him continue along, I have more confidence in him than what I did in Edwards, only a little though.


I wish Cowher would come out of retirement.

70 chiefsfan70
12-01-2011, 09:36 AM
I wish Cowher would come out of retirement.


Now that would be good to see cowher in a chiefs side line.

He has an incredible passion for the game and I think he will be back someday for some team.

pojote
12-01-2011, 12:30 PM
Ah, isn't the HC responsible for the players he puts on the field? Doesn't he draft these players, or at least have a say in the players he coaches? A lack of personnel has everything to do with the management of the team - this includes the HC.

If he is responsible for those decisions, he is welcomed to close the door from outside, but Pioli must leave with him.

matthewschiefs
12-01-2011, 01:53 PM
I wish Cowher would come out of retirement.

I would not mind that myself And I would also hope they bring in a young coach to learn from Cowher. Cowher just isn't going to be with a team long term. He's far closer to the end of his coaching days then his beging. But Cowher would be nice.

Vandelay
12-01-2011, 08:27 PM
I would not mind that myself And I would also hope they bring in a young coach to learn from Cowher. Cowher just isn't going to be with a team long term. He's far closer to the end of his coaching days then his beging. But Cowher would be nice.
If Andy Ried gets the boot in Philly I'd like to see him here.

Not sure if he might want control over all personel though, thats not gonna happen with Pioli here.

Chiefster
12-01-2011, 11:08 PM
Now that would be good to see cowher in a chiefs side line.

He has an incredible passion for the game and I think he will be back someday for some team.


I would not mind that myself And I would also hope they bring in a young coach to learn from Cowher. Cowher just isn't going to be with a team long term. He's far closer to the end of his coaching days then his beging. But Cowher would be nice.

It would in deed be very nice to have Cowher get us going in the right direction, and he also has history with the Chiefs. I'd love to see him revisit that history.

chief31
12-01-2011, 11:57 PM
While I see your point, your analogy is way off here. It would be more like you have a contract, a contractor that was mediocre at best, but he had some decent managers, and good help, so he you hired him.

Then, right before he started your house, the good workers and managers left. Some of them quite, others were injured. The contractor ran out and got some other guys off the street to help out, but they screwed up your house anyway. Now, is it his fault that his people left or got injured, no, but he is still responsible.

Well, yeah... I was definitely exaggerating. :D

But I think if the two guys who have led his crew, are suddenly unable to work, a drop-off has to be expected.

But you and I aren't far apart on this subject anyway.

texaschief
12-03-2011, 06:08 AM
Just take a quick look at Denver and the worst QB in the game and see what they're doing... that's what a good head coach does... he makes adjustments and game plans against the teams they're going to play and does so with the players he has...


Here's a quick question... do you think Haley would be winning in Denver right now? I sure as hell don't.

#58ChiefsFan
12-03-2011, 09:44 AM
Just take a quick look at Denver and the worst QB in the game and see what they're doing... that's what a good head coach does... he makes adjustments and game plans against the teams they're going to play and does so with the players he has...


Here's a quick question... do you think Haley would be winning in Denver right now? I sure as hell don't.

You're absolutely correct on this. If you put the Denver roster in place if ours you would have the same outcome. They would be forced into the Pioli/Haley "system" and not playing to their strengths.

If they believed when Palko took over that we honestly still had a chance at the post season then maybe a change wouldn't be a bad thing because this is a disaster season.

chief31
12-03-2011, 12:36 PM
Just take a quick look at Denver and the worst QB in the game and see what they're doing... that's what a good head coach does... he makes adjustments and game plans against the teams they're going to play and does so with the players he has...


Here's a quick question... do you think Haley would be winning in Denver right now? I sure as hell don't.

Yeah, good coaches never force the players to learn their preferred schemes.

Do you think Andy Reid, Lovie Smith, Mike Tomlin, Bill Bellichick, or any other well-known successful coach would be employing a temporary offense, or forcing players to learn the offense they will be expected to lead, long-term?

Probably not.

But then amazing coaches like Herm Edwards did it when Gailey was here, so that must be the mark of a good HC, hunh?

70 chiefsfan70
12-03-2011, 01:17 PM
Just take a quick look at Denver and the worst QB in the game and see what they're doing... that's what a good head coach does... he makes adjustments and game plans against the teams they're going to play and does so with the players he has...


Here's a quick question... do you think Haley would be winning in Denver right now? I sure as hell don't.

I think you are giving the coach way too much credit. What happened here is a leader has stepped up and is taking the team on his back and has everyone on the team following, no hes not a great QB, but he is a great leader! now thats what the Chiefs are lacking!!!!

texaschief
12-03-2011, 02:09 PM
I think you are giving the coach way too much credit. What happened here is a leader has stepped up and is taking the team on his back and has everyone on the team following, no hes not a great QB, but he is a great leader! now thats what the Chiefs are lacking!!!!

umm... isn't that what the head coach is suppose to be... a leader?

#58ChiefsFan
12-03-2011, 03:29 PM
Yeah, good coaches never force the players to learn their preferred schemes.

Do you think Andy Reid, Lovie Smith, Mike Tomlin, Bill Bellichick, or any other well-known successful coach would be employing a temporary offense, or forcing players to learn the offense they will be expected to lead, long-term?

Probably not.

But then amazing coaches like Herm Edwards did it when Gailey was here, so that must be the mark of a good HC, hunh?



We don't have a successful coach though, well known in a bad way yes.

We are down to what has become a scrub starting QB and according to Haley they will do anything they can to win and make the playoffs.

With a handful of games left who cares, the guys that are sucking it up wont be here next year anyway. If they are doing anything to win, its pretty obvious we cant score a touchdown in the regular system with the current roster, they need to put these guys in a position to win.

70 chiefsfan70
12-03-2011, 03:47 PM
umm... isn't that what the head coach is suppose to be... a leader?


You are correct, that is what a head coach is supposed to do. I was just saying in the Broncos case it was tebow who did it. The head coach was there all season and the team didn't start winning till tebow took the starting position.

Tebow has the whole teams attention and has them motivated to a new level that they have not seen in recent years.

That is what the Chiefs don't have. Even though Cassel is a better QB then Tebow, he has nothing in the line of leadership. But Haley should get some of this blame.

chief31
12-03-2011, 04:23 PM
We don't have a successful coach though, well known in a bad way yes.

We are down to what has become a scrub starting QB and according to Haley they will do anything they can to win and make the playoffs.

With a handful of games left who cares, the guys that are sucking it up wont be here next year anyway. If they are doing anything to win, its pretty obvious we cant score a touchdown in the regular system with the current roster, they need to put these guys in a position to win.

We do have a successful HC.

Taking a 2-12 team to the playoffs, in just two years, is extremely successful, and if it weren't for the trees, most people would see that this season fell apart the moment Charles was lost.

And your "who cares" mentality is all good and fine for fans. But when you have to lead this team next season, you don't just throw your arms in the air and start goofing off, in hopes of a miracle. A miracle that doesn't matter anyway, mind you, since the end result would still be no playoffs.

These few remaining games are being used as an experience with the offense that we plan to have on the field in 2012.

Obviously, the offense is not yet running as expected, so setting it aside for a few meaningless games, only to bring it back next season would be a foolish plan.

We'll see if Orton can get a firm grip on our offense, and keep up repetition of our offense, to keep all involved familiar, so they are all aware of what we want to do next year.

#58ChiefsFan
12-03-2011, 05:56 PM
18-25 is not a successful record

Todd Haley and Matt Cassel are only good when everything they need is in place.

How is game planning for the men on the field goofing off?

If we are setting up for next year why is Palko on the field, he is good as gone.

Go watch Haleys press conference yesterday, he is the one stating they will do anything to win. That wasn't my idea.

chief31
12-03-2011, 09:19 PM
18-25 is not a successful record

Starting with a 2-12 team, and acknowledging the player losses from this season, it absolutely is.


Todd Haley and Matt Cassel are only good when everything they need is in place.

That's ridiculous.

Neither has ever had that situation here.


How is game planning for the men on the field goofing off?

It isn't.

Scrapping the overall team philosophy, to experiment is.


If we are setting up for next year why is Palko on the field, he is good as gone.

Lack of options, and the idea is that he is not as bad as you think he is.

You have seen him do well, and make some big mistakes. But completely ignore what he has done well, for the end result....which has been a whole two games.


Go watch Haleys press conference yesterday, he is the one stating they will do anything to win. That wasn't my idea.

One could also try to release all the players and sign other teams' throwaways to try and win.

But the idea is to try and win with what you have player-wise, as well as system-wise.

You can go for it on every fourth down too, and there is some logic to saying that it is an effort to try and win.

But making poor decisions to try and win is still foolish.

#58ChiefsFan
12-04-2011, 09:01 AM
If you find what has transpired here up to this point a success you have a far lower expectation than I do. 2010 was a success, the other two years counteract that feat. I don't think last year was as big a fluke as most and I don't want to hear about a lack of personel. Moeaki Berry and Charles were lost within the first two weeks, that is more than enough time to work around that. Cassel going down, I will give them props for doing something about that even if I disagree with their decision. 18-25 is not a success no matter how many excuses we want to make.

Haley winning 10 games and Matt going 27-7 last year was not because of a lack of injuries? Matt has two good years and two not so good years. Haley is 1-2. I'm not saying they 100% had everything on their wishlist, I'm saying when Haley had a real OC and Matt plays in games where the protection is above average for us they shined.

You can keep the overall philosophy and put these guys in a better chance to win. You can not send Dexter between the tackles, you can not call a third down and eight play and hope to get 3 YAC. We don't have Charles so quit acting like we do.

I'm on the Palko bandwagon and have been since they pulled that cart out. He is getting judged by a double standard in the front office for a 3% chance of making the post season. Everybody knows the first sign of a mistake and Orton gets the keys to the stationwagon.

Our 11 guys off the street coach said he would do anything to win. We are the purest form of insanity this year. Same crappy offensive scheme, same crappy results.

I'm for giving him next year to finish his contract and I think he will do well next year and get an extension. I believe Cassel will be the starter and he will do well next year as well.

chief31
12-04-2011, 04:18 PM
If you find what has transpired here up to this point a success you have a far lower expectation than I do. 2010 was a success, the other two years counteract that feat.

That's just it.

I see what he inherited, and base my expectations off of the circumstances, instead of just expecting a world-beater immediately, regardless of all circumstance.


I don't think last year was as big a fluke as most and I don't want to hear about a lack of personel. Moeaki Berry and Charles were lost within the first two weeks, that is more than enough time to work around that. Cassel going down, I will give them props for doing something about that even if I disagree with their decision. 18-25 is not a success no matter how many excuses we want to make.

You can call reason "excuse" all you want. But the fact that our offense lost the main cog doesn't change. And expecting the team to carry on, regardless of not having the fuel that makes it run, is just illogical.


Haley winning 10 games and Matt going 27-7 last year was not because of a lack of injuries? Matt has two good years and two not so good years.

Two good years, and two horrible situations, which have resulted in two not-so-good years.

Coming to a 2-12 team, in your second year as a starter, should result in a bad year.

And having this offense, minus Jamaal Charles, is also a terrible situation to have to deal with.


Haley is 1-2. I'm not saying they 100% had everything on their wishlist, I'm saying when Haley had a real OC and Matt plays in games where the protection is above average for us they shined.

The protection was not above average, and that OC ditched us.

There is a pretty wide line between having "everything they need" (hasn't happened.) and losing your MVP and then some.

You seem to be presenting it as black and white, when it is truly nowhere near that simple.


You can keep the overall philosophy and put these guys in a better chance to win. You can not send Dexter between the tackles, you can not call a third down and eight play and hope to get 3 YAC. We don't have Charles so quit acting like we do.

Agreed.

There has been some suspect play-calling, to put it mildly.

But, being able to get anything out of an offense like this is not going to be easy. It is a very bad situation to be in. Self-induced, due to the mistake of thinking this offense was not dependent upon Charles, but still a very tough position to be in, with a new OC.


I'm on the Palko bandwagon and have been since they pulled that cart out. He is getting judged by a double standard in the front office for a 3% chance of making the post season. Everybody knows the first sign of a mistake and Orton gets the keys to the stationwagon.

Our 11 guys off the street coach said he would do anything to win. We are the purest form of insanity this year. Same crappy offensive scheme, same crappy results.

I'm for giving him next year to finish his contract and I think he will do well next year and get an extension. I believe Cassel will be the starter and he will do well next year as well.

For the most part, you and I are on the same page here.

I just lower my expectations to the real situation of the team.

But I think this season has been a very good lesson for The Chiefs, and think that we will be a very serious contender next season.

If not, then I will be joining the anti-Haley crowd.

Just not until he has been given, what I consider, a fair shake.

pojote
12-05-2011, 01:27 PM
I would pick Tebow over Palko 101 over 100 chances. If Palko can throw an accurate pass over 15 yards, maybe I could change my mind.
It isn't a very accurate comparison what happens in Denver to what we have. Better overall personnel in defense, better QB.

azchiefsfan
12-05-2011, 02:02 PM
If Haley wins 1 more, he is back next year. If we don't win another, he's gone. That's my thinking and I'm sticking to it.

matthewschiefs
12-05-2011, 03:53 PM
I give Haley full credit for yesterdays win. But still don't think that he's the right guy for the job. Yesterday was a step forward in winning my faith back. And if this team looks better the rest of the season then I will have no problem bringing him back. But I think he will be back no matter what.

Chiefster
12-05-2011, 03:57 PM
I give Haley full credit for yesterdays win. But still don't think that he's the right guy for the job. Yesterday was a step forward in winning my faith back. And if this team looks better the rest of the season then I will have no problem bringing him back. But I think he will be back no matter what.

I disagree; I give Crennel and the defense full credit for yesterday's win. The TD before the half was about 95% luck. IMO.

Canada
12-06-2011, 06:59 AM
I would pick Tebow over Palko 101 over 100 chances. If Palko can throw an accurate pass over 15 yards, maybe I could change my mind.
It isn't a very accurate comparison what happens in Denver to what we have. Better overall personnel in defense, better QB.Nope....D line maybe...LBs and secondary we are waaaaay better!!

pojote
12-06-2011, 09:14 AM
Nope....D line maybe...LBs and secondary we are waaaaay better!!

Maybe you are right, in a one on one comparison, but not way better.

Seek
12-06-2011, 10:14 AM
All I have to say is look at the Bears after losing Two starters. Hailey lost 4 to 5, the fifth being McGraw. Is Chicago calling for Lovie Smiths head?

I know people say injuries are part of the game and Haley has to get around that. That is BS... Injuries do happen and they have to work around that, but 4 KEY players is DEAD meat floating in the water.

I do love the fact that after I posted this about Romeo, the Defense has been lights out. I wouldn't be opposed to give him another shot as HC, if they do fire Haley.

wolfpack
12-06-2011, 10:52 AM
I disagree; I give Crennel and the defense full credit for yesterday's win. The TD before the half was about 95% luck. IMO.
95% is alittle low,maybe 98%. the offense didnt do squat sunday.the only difference was they didnt turn the ball over like the first 2 games.

70 chiefsfan70
12-06-2011, 01:12 PM
95% is alittle low,maybe 98%. the offense didnt do squat sunday.the only difference was they didnt turn the ball over like the first 2 games.


More like 99.9% luck.

I thought the OL was a little better, considering how good the Bears Defense has been. Also I thought Packo (his bags) played smarter by throwing the ball away, or tucking and running, instead of forcing bad throws.

70 chiefsfan70
12-06-2011, 01:33 PM
All I have to say is look at the Bears after losing Two starters. Hailey lost 4 to 5, the fifth being McGraw. Is Chicago calling for Lovie Smiths head?

I know people say injuries are part of the game and Haley has to get around that. That is BS... Injuries do happen and they have to work around that, but 4 KEY players is DEAD meat floating in the water.

I do love the fact that after I posted this about Romeo, the Defense has been lights out. I wouldn't be opposed to give him another shot as HC, if they do fire Haley.

I think the coaching situation is different. Lovie Smith did not embarrass the whole fan base by loosing 31 3 at home to a 0 and 7 team.

The Bears lost only by a touchdown and they played against a new and rising D that was having the best game of the season. Kudos to Romeo! oh and Houstin!

Seek
12-06-2011, 01:55 PM
I think the coaching situation is different. Lovie Smith did not embarrass the whole fan base by loosing 31 3 at home to a 0 and 7 team.

The Bears lost only by a touchdown and they played against a new and rising D that was having the best game of the season. Kudos to Romeo! oh and Houstin!

Don't think it is different at all. If you have not noticed the Dolphins are winning a lot of games right now against good teams. Give the Bears another key injury on Defense following another injury to that Back up and another Key injury on offense, and they very easily could lose by 31 to Miami or any other above average team.

During the games the Chiefs have been really beat bad, McGraw was hurt. Not saying he is the glue, but there is a huge difference between McGraw and Washington or any other 4th string safety we have and every team has exploited that position.

azchiefsfan
12-06-2011, 02:17 PM
I know there are those here who have the opposite thought, but I think McGraw and Piscatelli have been developing quite nicely. They are given a huge area in the middle of the field to cover and have done pretty well. They are young and have been burned a few times, but for being thrown into the caldron like they have, they are performing pretty well and improving by leaps and bounds.

azchiefsfan
12-06-2011, 02:18 PM
p.s. Piscatelli is young and McGraw has had to become an every down starter.

matthewschiefs
12-06-2011, 04:11 PM
I disagree; I give Crennel and the defense full credit for yesterday's win. The TD before the half was about 95% luck. IMO.

Well I will give Crennel credit to but Haley I think is part of putting the gameplan together on defense. So he does get credit as well.

As for the TD it was 99% luck. Two bears had a chance to pick that pass off. Palko tried to turn the ball over a couple of times the bears just didn't make the plays. But Give Mccluster the credit for making that play.

Seek
12-06-2011, 04:33 PM
I know there are those here who have the opposite thought, but I think McGraw and Piscatelli have been developing quite nicely. They are given a huge area in the middle of the field to cover and have done pretty well. They are young and have been burned a few times, but for being thrown into the caldron like they have, they are performing pretty well and improving by leaps and bounds.

Have not seen Piscatelli do crap.

Liking McGraw.

OPLookn
12-06-2011, 05:07 PM
p.s. Piscatelli is young and McGraw has had to become an every down starter.

Piscatelli is 28 and has been in the league since 07. He's gone from being drafted by the Bucs to the Browns to KC. McGraw has had a couple of good games and was playing hurt but he's no spring chicken either at 32. But I will say that both have plugged the glaring hole left by Berry. Unfortunately, I don't feel either is a long term back up.

Nicfre2011 has suggested drafting a safety in another thread and I'd have to say after looking at this information I'd wholeheartedly agree with that. It's crazy to think we could have been in this bad of a situation had we not drafted Berry and Lewis last year!

Having a 32 yr old safety with a 28 yr old playing beside him and no backups?!? Granted we'd have picked someone else up but with Washington as the immediate backup....not good!

chief31
12-06-2011, 06:26 PM
I know there are those here who have the opposite thought, but I think McGraw and Piscatelli have been developing quite nicely. They are given a huge area in the middle of the field to cover and have done pretty well. They are young and have been burned a few times, but for being thrown into the caldron like they have, they are performing pretty well and improving by leaps and bounds.

They have been very good. Especially for guys who were supposed to be no good.

josh1971
12-07-2011, 01:32 AM
Piscatelli is 28 and has been in the league since 07. He's gone from being drafted by the Bucs to the Browns to KC. McGraw has had a couple of good games and was playing hurt but he's no spring chicken either at 32. But I will say that both have plugged the glaring hole left by Berry. Unfortunately, I don't feel either is a long term back up.

Nicfre2011 has suggested drafting a safety in another thread and I'd have to say after looking at this information I'd wholeheartedly agree with that. It's crazy to think we could have been in this bad of a situation had we not drafted Berry and Lewis last year!

Having a 32 yr old safety with a 28 yr old playing beside him and no backups?!? Granted we'd have picked someone else up but with Washington as the immediate backup....not good!

The guy who seems to get lost in the mix all the time is Kendrick Lewis. Between Lewis and Berry, we have a great couple of starting safeties. Have Sabby and McGraw been all-pro caliber backups? No, but they have been serviceable, and I've always liked McGraw's ability to lay a good hit on.

We have much more glaring needs than safety, which is an area we could add depth to in free agency. I wouldn't spend a draft pick on one right now.


They have been very good. Especially for guys who were supposed to be no good.

This- Eric Berry is a damm good safety, and the backup safeties very quickly had to adjust to "He's not there". I think they've done fairly well in rotation, and considering McGraw has 3 INT, VERY well.

jb