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View Full Version : 10-15 Pick in 2012 Draft Who Do we take?



Codac
11-20-2011, 02:24 PM
Alright so what do we know as of this moment about the our Kansas City Chiefs? Look at the depth chart from top to bottom. Look at the record. Look at the stats. Look at the game tape. What do you see?

QB - Matt Cassel's play has been inconsistent with flashes of hope. Overall highly disappointing.

RB - Jackie has shown he can contribute. Slightly inconsistent. But promising especially if paired with a faster more reliable back, aka, Jamal Charles. LeRon has not been as effective as I had hoped but I never truely expected very much out of him.

WR - We have one of the best trios of wideouts in the league in my opinion. We just can't get them the ball.

TE - No help at all.

OL - Started out strong but lately have been iffy.

DL - Changes all around, save for Dorsey, who is still questionable.

LB - Same as DL. Houston shows promise every now and then. Need another ILB and a solid OLB opposite Hali.

DB - The loss of Berry was huge. Carr hasn't been as effective this year. Constantly beat. A pickup at CB to compete with Carr would be nice.

ST - Succop started bad but has been decent so far this year. He is definitely on the hot seat though. Still lacking a solid returner.

So with all that. Who do you take with your first draft pickK?

While I would love to see RGIII in a Chiefs uniform I am almost positive that Pioli will not draft a QB. Cassel will be given another year to prove himself.

I say we go defense. Many will complain that our OL needs immediate improvement. Well I disagree. I say our defense is a more pressing matter. I like these three players.

Manti Te'o/LB/Notre Dame - I like him to be our ILB opposite Johnson. Think Ray Lewis. Not a great pass rusher. But a smart, strong tackler that can cover slower RBs and TEs. Injuries are a concern.

Courtney Upshaw/LB/Alabama - Line him up opposite Hali. Stong and fast. Great Vision. Good motor.

Dontari Poe/DT/Memphis - This one is a stretch for the pick we will probably have. But I think he could be a good NT. He is athletic for his size. Not a great pass rusher but can stuff the run. Raw Talent. Reason I consider him a stretch.

Alright lets hear it.

Chiefs fanatic
11-20-2011, 02:33 PM
I'd go OL or DL. It depends on who's available when we pick though.

#58ChiefsFan
11-20-2011, 02:50 PM
If/when we have a meltdown with Palko and Stanzi as most people expect they will have no choice but to go QB.

I'd hope that Stanzi can be the guy going forward, he will get second team reps now and they must give him first team reps before the season ends, unless there is a miracle with Tyler.

Today I think RG3 is the guy though.

70 chiefsfan70
11-20-2011, 04:48 PM
I would like to see what we have in palko ans Stanzi, but if neither step up I think we should go QB. I think Cassel has lost the teams respect with lack of leadership and if we keep him in there next year will be similar to this year. We have too much talent on this team to be this lost! We need a new leader.

But we have sooooo many needs we should consider best available player outside of WR TE or S.

jap1
11-20-2011, 05:16 PM
From here on out, we are going to be a primarily running team that only passes when necessary. So, if we end up in the top 10 of the draft, it means our OL wasnt able to open up holes for Battle or our D has completely collapsed. The former is more likely, and in that event, we HAVE to go OL.

NO QB will make this team competitive with the Packers, Steelers, Ravens and 49ers of the league if we cannot run the ball (save for maybe Peyton Manning 10 years ago - not even the current Peyton).

So, if we are in the top 10, I say take the best OL available.

If we are in the middle of the draft order, then we must have won a couple games from here on out, meaning our OL isnt pathetic.

In that case, I say go Best Player Available among LB, OL, DL, or CB in the first round, or maybe even trading down a couple picks to get another 3rd round pick. 2nd round you pickup BPA from whichever of those positions you didnt pick up.

In general, I believe in drafting a lineman, offensive or defensive, in the first 3 rounds every year, even if you dont have an immediate need. If you think about it this way, there are 8 lineman (5 O, 3 D). If you draft one position every year, then every 8 years you will have drafted a whole new OL and DL. You figure each player sits on the bench a year or two, then that means every 10 years you have a replacement for each position. The life expectancy of most linemen is 10 years (if you subtract any major injuries).

So, even if you were to argue that we dont NEED another OL, then I say draft one anyways, you could always use an upgrade/competition.

Ryfo18
11-20-2011, 05:47 PM
If RG3 is there, take him.

Codac
11-20-2011, 06:34 PM
Think about this from Pioli's perspective. Since the loss of Charles we have become a pretty much one dimensional team. That single dimension seems to vary from game to game. Sometimes its all run, others it is all pass. Meaning Cassel has to throw to much or not enough. Meaning his play is always going to struggle. Defenses catch on either way. Cassel looks like crap.

Pioli is going to give Cassel one more year. One more year with a team that is healthy. Same with Haley. Whether we like it or not Cassel is our guy next year. A QB will not be taken.

I am predicting a mid 1st round pick. I think we will pull a win or two out of our helmet before the season is done.

chief31
11-20-2011, 06:38 PM
I'd like to see us move up to take OT Kalil.

Albert is a bad LOT. Get a legitimate replacement at LOT and Albert is likely a very good ROT, or OG.

Upgrade two o-line positions with one pick, and watch your RBs improve, your QBs improve, and your WRs improve.

But then, I think we have a failure of offensive strategy and overall coaching too.

The players we have on our o-line should be able to do much better than what we have seen the past couple of weeks.

Codac
11-20-2011, 06:45 PM
I'd like to see us move up to take OT Kalil.

Albert is a bad LOT. Get a legitimate replacement at LOT and Albert is likely a very good ROT, or OG.

Upgrade two o-line positions with one pick, and watch your RBs improve, your QBs improve, and your WRs improve.

But then, I think we have a failure of offensive strategy and overall coaching too.

The players we have on our o-line should be able to do much better than what we have seen the past couple of weeks.





This isn't a terrible line. The last couple of weeks they were shaky. But the whole team was shaky. That is why we got smashed both weeks. This is just a team with no confidence and no leaders. No one is stepping up and taking charge inside the locker room.

I do agree that Albert is a better guard. That is what he played in college.

chief31
11-20-2011, 06:49 PM
This isn't a terrible line. The last couple of weeks they were shaky. But the whole team was shaky. That is why we got smashed both weeks. This is just a team with no confidence and no leaders. No one is stepping up and taking charge inside the locker room.

I do agree that Albert is a better guard. That is what he played in college.

I think the rest of the offense being shaky is a direct result of terrible o-line play.

I was so hopeful after the unit put together a couple of really good games earlier, but two straight weeks of horrid play, both running, and passing, have eliminated any confidence I had.

Codac
11-20-2011, 07:00 PM
I think the rest of the offense being shaky is a direct result of terrible o-line play.

I was so hopeful after the unit put together a couple of really good games earlier, but two straight weeks of horrid play, both running, and passing, have eliminated any confidence I had.

I still have confidence in this line. For now. I want to see what they can do against this New England front seven.

I believe that offensive lines are grown. Not built. You pick the players and you stick with them. Let them build and grow next to each other. Chemistry is a part of the game that is often overlooked.

azchiefsfan
11-20-2011, 07:12 PM
This is a terrible OL. They had a few good games, but went right back to their old ways. There isn't one of those guys that I would start if we had any other choice.

H-townChiefsFan
11-20-2011, 09:35 PM
Think about this from Pioli's perspective. Since the loss of Charles we have become a pretty much one dimensional team. That single dimension seems to vary from game to game. Sometimes its all run, others it is all pass. Meaning Cassel has to throw to much or not enough. Meaning his play is always going to struggle. Defenses catch on either way. Cassel looks like crap.

Pioli is going to give Cassel one more year. One more year with a team that is healthy. Same with Haley. Whether we like it or not Cassel is our guy next year. A QB will not be taken.

I am predicting a mid 1st round pick. I think we will pull a win or two out of our helmet before the season is done.


Even if Cassel and Haley are both here next year (which I agree that will be the case)...that is no reason not to take a QB, in fact it should be the perfect opportunity. I would be really excited to see a guy like RG3 or Tannehill come in here and be a solid pocket passer with the ability to scamble (and that is cool with me if it is not the first year). Was Deberg the last scrambling QB we had??? Maybe Gannon could be considered, but not the definition of.

The fans are pissed. The Chiefs need to do something to get people excited. Taking a QB in the first, or even second gives the season ticket holders something to look forward to.

I would be ok with an OL if it was truly the best available or if it was a steal, but if the pick is comprable or even close I think a QB would be a good way to 'sell the chiefs brand'. And it seems like fan hope is as low as it has been since before DT was drafted.

figcrostic
11-21-2011, 11:27 AM
I'd like to see us move up to take OT Kalil.

Albert is a bad LOT. Get a legitimate replacement at LOT and Albert is likely a very good ROT, or OG.

Upgrade two o-line positions with one pick, and watch your RBs improve, your QBs improve, and your WRs improve.

But then, I think we have a failure of offensive strategy and overall coaching too.

The players we have on our o-line should be able to do much better than what we have seen the past couple of weeks.



:bananen_smilies046:

nicfre2011
11-21-2011, 12:30 PM
Hey guys...newbie here.
I think alot depends on what we do for free agency first and foremost. I would like to see us re-sign a healthy Jared Gaither to play right tackle and re-sign Barry Richardson to serve as a swing-tackle role.

As for nose tackle, Paul Soliai might be available on the free agent market and if we still go with Crennel's "bend-but-don't-break" Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 scheme, Soliai could be that run stuffer that we need in the middle of our defense. Kelly Gregg is a stop-gap and Jerrell Powe can't be counted as a known quantity.

Honestly, I would prefer to transition to a hybrid one and two gap scheme. I think the Fairbanks-Bullough base system is becoming antiquated to an extent as defenses look to field more versatile fronts and secondaries...while the F-B system really uses the defensive ends for a specific role of gap control. As it stands now, we don't get any semblence of a pass rush at all from Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey....and I think this current role especially for Dorsey doesn't play to his strengths as a quick, penetrating interior defender.

A guy I like who I think can play in multiple schemes and packages is Purdue junior Kawann Short. With the overall lack of top-tier defensive tackles projected to be availabel in the 2012 draft, I think he could end up really moving up draft boards should he declare. He has good size at 6'-3", 310 lbs., with a strong base...and I think he could add some weight to get even stronger in the middle of the defense if he were used more in a two gap system. As I said, I think he could end up really moving up boards...and if we are sitting inside of the top 10, if we could trade down a couple of spots and still have a shot at Short while picking up an additional draft pick that would be a potential win-win situation.

So far in 11 games as a junior he has :
Solo tackles : 28
Assisted tackles : 23
Total tackles : 51
Tackles for loss : 17
Tackles for loss yardage : 53
Sacks : 6.5
Sack loss yardage : 31
Passes broken up : 1
Forced fumbles : 1

2010 sophomore season :
12 games
Solo tackles : 30
Assisted tackles : 11
Total tackles : 41
Tackles for loss : 12.5
Tackles for loss yardage : 40
Sacks : 4.5
Sack loss yardage : 21
Passes broken up : 8
Kicks blocked : 2

stats courtesy of cfbstats.com

Codac
11-21-2011, 12:43 PM
Hey guys...newbie here.
I think alot depends on what we do for free agency first and foremost. I would like to see us re-sign a healthy Jared Gaither to play right tackle and re-sign Barry Richardson to serve as a swing-tackle role.

As for nose tackle, Paul Soliai might be available on the free agent market and if we still go with Crennel's "bend-but-don't-break" Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 scheme, Soliai could be that run stuffer that we need in the middle of our defense. Kelly Gregg is a stop-gap and Jerrell Powe can't be counted as a known quantity.

Honestly, I would prefer to transition to a hybrid one and two gap scheme. I think the Fairbanks-Bullough base system is becoming antiquated to an extent as defenses look to field more versatile fronts and secondaries...while the F-B system really uses the defensive ends for a specific role of gap control. As it stands now, we don't get any semblence of a pass rush at all from Tyson Jackson and Glenn Dorsey....and I think this current role especially for Dorsey doesn't play to his strengths as a quick, penetrating interior defender.

A guy I like who I think can play in multiple schemes and packages is Purdue junior Kawann Short. With the overall lack of top-tier defensive tackles projected to be availabel in the 2012 draft, I think he could end up really moving up draft boards should he declare. He has good size at 6'-3", 310 lbs., with a strong base...and I think he could add some weight to get even stronger in the middle of the defense if he were used more in a two gap system. As I said, I think he could end up really moving up boards...and if we are sitting inside of the top 10, if we could trade down a couple of spots and still have a shot at Short while picking up an additional draft pick that would be a potential win-win situation.

So far in 11 games as a junior he has :
Solo tackles : 28
Assisted tackles : 23
Total tackles : 51
Tackles for loss : 17
Tackles for loss yardage : 53
Sacks : 6.5
Sack loss yardage : 31
Passes broken up : 1
Forced fumbles : 1

2010 sophomore season :
12 games
Solo tackles : 30
Assisted tackles : 11
Total tackles : 41
Tackles for loss : 12.5
Tackles for loss yardage : 40
Sacks : 4.5
Sack loss yardage : 21
Passes broken up : 8
Kicks blocked : 2

stats courtesy of cfbstats.com

Welcome! Always good to see another Chiefs fan.

I would love to see us move back to the 4-3. But they have invested so much in their 3-4, I don't see it happening until a new coaching regime takes control.

nicfre2011
11-21-2011, 12:55 PM
Welcome! Always good to see another Chiefs fan.

I would love to see us move back to the 4-3. But they have invested so much in their 3-4, I don't see it happening until a new coaching regime takes control.

Thanks for the welcome!
I apologize, I probably wasn't as clear as I meant to be....I actually am not saying transition to a 4-3 base front defense (ala New York Giants, New Orleans Saints, Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Chicago Bears)..but actually transition more from a 3-4 front with 2-gap assignments to a hybrid 1-gap/2-gap hybrid based on player strengths. Personally, I think a guy like Glenn Dorsey is much better suited from a physical skill set standpoint, to make more of an impact as a 1-gap 3-4 defensive end...where he can use his quickness to get into the offensive backfield. As it stands right now, he plays a more read and react role as he holds the edge and is responsible for both sides of the left tackle. I think adding a player like Kawann Short could also give us some flexibility to show more 1-gap hybrid fronts at both nose tackle and defensive end.

I think Tyson Jackson is more limited as he doesn't have the same explosiveness that Dorsey has...but he could hypothetically play more of a 2-gap role on the strongside....playing both gaps on either side of the right tackle. I see Short as a player that could play either 1-gap or 2-gap nose tackle...and potentially either at defensive end in our 3-4. I think this is the hybrid role similar to the one that Dom Capers uses B.J. Raji in Green Bay, largely due to his versatility.

As it stands right now, we are completely lacking any pass rush outside of Tamba Hali and I think the more traditional 3-4 front shown in the Fairbanks-Bullough system is becoming outdated by spread offenses. It has it's value in defensive packages based on circumstances, but it seems like Crennel uses it in a more base front role...and when you don't deviate much you inherently get little to no pass rush from the front 3...or even the threat of a pass rush from one of the three up front as they are responsible for controlling 2 gaps.

Codac
11-21-2011, 01:21 PM
I think your gap system is different than mine. My 1 gap is the the right of the center if you were under center. Are you talking about putting Dorsey at NT? Or are you giving each player their own gap system?

nicfre2011
11-21-2011, 01:42 PM
I think your gap system is different than mine. My 1 gap is the the right of the center if you were under center. Are you talking about putting Dorsey at NT? Or are you giving each player their own gap system?

Yeah, I am talking more about having gap assignments that play to each individuals strengths. So for example, I see a player like Short being able to handle a 1-gap and 2-gap nose tackle assignment and also be able to be used in packages as a 1-gap or specifically a 2-gap defensive end. I could see Dorsey be able to play either a 1-gap defensive end or 2-gap defensive end role, again, depending on the defensive play. With Jackson, I think he is more limited than Dorsey and really doesn't have the quickness to make as big of an impact in a 1-gap assignment.

In another forum, I am trying to get more information from Green Bay fans on how Capers uses his defensive linemen. My feeling is that for players that have more versatility like B.J. Raji, he uses them in multiple roles with a mixture of 1-gap and 2-gap assignments. For players like Ryan Pickett and Howard Green, I wonder if they are used more exclusively in 2-gap assignments to take advantage of their strength at the point of attack to occupy multiple blockers. Neither seem to be best suited to 1-gap assignments, atleast not any more than an occassional basis.

I actually think if he develops, Powe could potentially be used in a way similar to Raji, albeit a poor man's version. He has the size to plug occupy multiple blockers (and handle a 2-gap assignment) and I think he was used at Mississippi as a 1-gap tackle as well (not his clear strength, but some versatility).

Again, just some ideas....I just don't think Crennel's defensive system is necessarily a base front look anymore with the evolution of today's spread attack offenses...

Codac
11-21-2011, 02:14 PM
Ok I think I get what you are saying now, and I agree. I'm looking into your pick right now.
I do agree that we are definitely not playing to our teams strengths. Haley and company are trying to force their schemes to be compatible with the players.
Tyson Jackson is on the wrong team in my opinion. But since they picked and paid for him they are trying to make him fit. We lack much depth to do much about it though.
I would rather be starting Bailey than Jackson.

Jrudi
11-21-2011, 04:39 PM
I Think of course it is still too early for these predictions.... but due to our recent efforts on the field I too have been looking at prospects both in the Draft and FA haha.

I'm not usually a poster that is demanding O-line help on here like I sometimes see, but I do think that we could highly benefit from a high pick on the O-line, D-Line, or LB.

I'm thinking someone like a Riley Reiff from Iowa (6'6" 300lbs) Pioli has connections with his coach Kirk Ferentz and may use that to his benefit. This guy has also been talked about as a better Tackle than the guy he replaced, the current RT of the Green Bay Packers Bryan Bullaga.

From CBS Sports.com:
"Unlike Bulaga, however, there is little doubt that Reiff can play left tackle at the next level. He does have to improve his hand placement and lower-body strength to handle NFL-caliber defenders, but given his athleticism, tenacity in the run game, and relative youth, teams will have no problems projecting him as a solid first round prospect with considerable upside."

The year Bullaga was drafted there was a-lot of talk that we could have seen the Chiefs draft him, due to Pioli's relationship with Ferentz. I think we could hear that talk again with Reiff, but might be more likely due to Reiff's superior Athleticism over Bullaga.

The only red flag with him is that his freshman year he got a public intoxication ticket, after leading the police on a 20 min chase on foot. I'm sure it was just a kid not knowing how to control his alcohol (lord knows we've all done stupid sh*t when drinking that we regret). This also happened before classes even started so it was probably like a back to school party weekend where everyone was getting stupid. The good news is I haven't heard of any other issues since.

Other prospects that I have ran across that could be a possibility (draft grade's vary so much from site to site at this point they may not be accurate.)

ILB's:
Rounds 1-2: Monte' Taeo, ND; Donta' Hightower, ALA
Round 5: Emanuel Acho, TX

D'line for rounds 2 or 3 and grab someone like Josh Chapman (6'1" 310) from Alabama is a stud (has been in the shadow of Marcel Darius, and before that Terrence Cody) could be a steal in round 3. Or Alameda Ta'amu (6'3" 337) from Washington (I've seen different grades on this guy, anywhere from round 1 to round 3)

I actually think you see us take a hard nosed inside runner in let's say rounds 4-5. Possibly Backs like Vick Ballard (5'11" 220) from Mississippi State, or Branden Boldin (5'11" 221) From Ole' Miss. We will be looking to replace Thomas Jones, and someone to compete with Jackie Battle for that role.

Also would like to see us grab some safety depth... and earlier guy like Antonio Allen, SS South Carolina, or a later round guy.

azchiefsfan
11-21-2011, 04:58 PM
Kellen Moore from BSU just wins. He has ridiculous numbers, but that doesn't tell the whole story. He never, ever gets rattled. He will be the biggest instant impact player of the draft if someone drafts him and puts him to work the first season. In our case we could draft him and let him learn a couple seasons, but if we needed him he could play from day one. Luck and RGIII are system QB's and will struggle outside the carefully orchestrated systems in which they play. Kellen Moore is the system at BSU.

Jrudi
11-21-2011, 05:55 PM
Kellen Moore from BSU just wins. He has ridiculous numbers, but that doesn't tell the whole story. He never, ever gets rattled. He will be the biggest instant impact player of the draft if someone drafts him and puts him to work the first season. In our case we could draft him and let him learn a couple seasons, but if we needed him he could play from day one. Luck and RGIII are system QB's and will struggle outside the carefully orchestrated systems in which they play. Kellen Moore is the system at BSU.


I've only seen Kellen Moore graded as a late late round draft pick. CBS Sports.com has him rated at the 15th best QB in this draft, and at 228 overall (which is actually an undrafted position. only 224 players taken if there are 7 rounds, 32 picks in each round)

Now I think he should be drafted at some point, but I'm not thinking he is worth anything more than a 6th round pick, and not sure he will be the savior of whatever franchise takes him.

Three7s
11-21-2011, 06:03 PM
Kellen Moore from BSU just wins. He has ridiculous numbers, but that doesn't tell the whole story. He never, ever gets rattled. He will be the biggest instant impact player of the draft if someone drafts him and puts him to work the first season. In our case we could draft him and let him learn a couple seasons, but if we needed him he could play from day one. Luck and RGIII are system QB's and will struggle outside the carefully orchestrated systems in which they play. Kellen Moore is the system at BSU.
Luck is NOT a system QB. He plays in a pro-style offense and is probably the best player and athlete on the team. I think you're talking about Landry rather than Luck. I agree with you about RG. His upside is probably Michael Vick, but he seems too raw. He'd need a lot of grooming.

For where we'd be drafting, I would love Barkley. I think he's the 2nd best QB behind Luck. I'll take even RG over Landry though. He's an obvious system QB. As for Moore, I haven't watched enough of BSU, but if we see something from Stanzi through the rest of this year, we could hold off and get Moore late.

Codac
11-21-2011, 06:09 PM
Kellen Moore from BSU just wins. He has ridiculous numbers, but that doesn't tell the whole story. He never, ever gets rattled. He will be the biggest instant impact player of the draft if someone drafts him and puts him to work the first season. In our case we could draft him and let him learn a couple seasons, but if we needed him he could play from day one. Luck and RGIII are system QB's and will struggle outside the carefully orchestrated systems in which they play. Kellen Moore is the system at BSU.

No. Kellen Moore is a system QB. Not just that, but he led a pretty good team against consistently weak schedules. He is a winner but he isn't going to be a winner in the NFL.
Luck is definitely not a system QB. He is a talented player and a leader. He played a pro-style that translates to the NFL.
RGIII is questionable. Yes, he played in a spread offense at Baylor. He played defenses in the Big 12 that are not at the same level as SEC defenses. He is intelligent in and out of football and extremely athletic with a good arm. His accuracy and release has improved this year. He has a high ceiling.

azchiefsfan
11-21-2011, 07:22 PM
Let's see: he beat Georgia-#7, VaTech-#10 and Oregon State-#24. You were saying what now?

texaschief
11-21-2011, 08:09 PM
I'm gonna hit on a couple things real quick without going into too much detail.

First off, to the author of the original post, you are an optimist, sir... if you believe there are going to be 9-14 teams with WORSE records than the Chiefs at the end of the season. To that point, I see the Chiefs picking in the 4-6 spots. Just look at the teams tied or worse than the Chiefs, record wise, and you'll see the Chiefs fall drastically before the end of the year. Cleveland, San Diego, Philly, Tampa, Arizona, Jacksonville, Miami, and Carolina are ALL going to end up with better records than the Chiefs who have the toughest remaining schedule in the league. Out of the 14 teams currently or tied with or worse than the Chiefs, 8 of them will end up with better records. That puts us around 6. There's still hope that Seattle, Washington, and Minnesota could all end up better than the Chiefs, but I wouldn't count on it.

Second, I think Dorsey could be one of the best defensive tackles in the league if he played in a 4-3 defense. Dorsey could be one of the Chiefs biggest trade pieces going into the offseason. I think the Chiefs should trade Dorsey to a 4-3 team for a latter first round pick.

I expect Indy, SEA, StL, Minn, and Wash to be picking ahead of KC. All but St. Louis and Minn need a franchise QB. Luck goes to Indy, Barkley reunites with Carroll, Kalil to STL, Blackmon becomes the #1 for Ponder in Minn, which leaves Jones for Washington. 3 QBs a WR and a LT taken before the Chiefs pick.

In my opinion, if the draft falls the way I see it, this is a horrible spot for the Chiefs to be in. With only RG3 left available at the QB position and knowing they still have Cassel returning in '12, the Chiefs don't really have an obvious pick here. There is still a TON of talent available here and could perhaps trade down and accumulate even more picks. There's also the curious case of Dwayne Bowe, who is slated to be a free agent in '12. This could cause the Chiefs to jump on Blackmon if he's available.

Personally, if there's no QB to be had at #6, I would like to see the Chiefs trade down. In addition to trading Glenn Dorsey to... say... perhaps... oh, I don't know... New England(?), they could have a few first rounders to play with. I wonder if Pioli could grab BOTH of the Patriots late first rounders (one from N.O.) for Dorsey and a third round pick. THEN, they could trade down from #6 and grab BOTH of Cincinatti's first round picks... ESPECIALLY if they like the top DE or CB.

I'd love to see the Chiefs sitting there with 4 first rounders. Hell, even if it meant trading away the rest of our draft along with Dorsey to make it happen, I'd want 4 first round picks.

Then, the picks could be:

Riley Reiff-OT
Vontaze Burfict-ILB
David DeCastro-OG
Dontari Poe-NT

If we get to keep our 2nd round pick, my pick would be

If Bowe leaves:
Best available WR

If Bowe stays:
Best available player.

AussieChiefsFan
11-21-2011, 08:14 PM
Probably O line

Coach
11-21-2011, 11:23 PM
I'm gonna hit on a couple things real quick without going into too much detail.

First off, to the author of the original post, you are an optimist, sir... if you believe there are going to be 9-14 teams with WORSE records than the Chiefs at the end of the season. To that point, I see the Chiefs picking in the 4-6 spots. Just look at the teams tied or worse than the Chiefs, record wise, and you'll see the Chiefs fall drastically before the end of the year. Cleveland, San Diego, Philly, Tampa, Arizona, Jacksonville, Miami, and Carolina are ALL going to end up with better records than the Chiefs who have the toughest remaining schedule in the league. Out of the 14 teams currently or tied with or worse than the Chiefs, 8 of them will end up with better records. That puts us around 6. There's still hope that Seattle, Washington, and Minnesota could all end up better than the Chiefs, but I wouldn't count on it.

Second, I think Dorsey could be one of the best defensive tackles in the league if he played in a 4-3 defense. Dorsey could be one of the Chiefs biggest trade pieces going into the offseason. I think the Chiefs should trade Dorsey to a 4-3 team for a latter first round pick.

I expect Indy, SEA, StL, Minn, and Wash to be picking ahead of KC. All but St. Louis and Minn need a franchise QB. Luck goes to Indy, Barkley reunites with Carroll, Kalil to STL, Blackmon becomes the #1 for PonderS in Minn, which leaves Jones for Washington. 3 QBs a WR and a LT taken before the Chiefs pick.

In my opinion, if the draft falls the way I see it, this is a horrible spot for the Chiefs to be in. With only RG3 left available at the QB position and knowing they still have Cassel returning in '12, the Chiefs don't really have an obvious pick here. There is still a TON of talent available here and could perhaps trade down and accumulate even more picks. There's also the curious case of Dwayne Bowe, who is slated to be a free agent in '12. This could cause the Chiefs to jump on Blackmon if he's available.

Personally, if there's no QB to be had at #6, I would like to see the Chiefs trade down. In addition to trading Glenn Dorsey to... say... perhaps... oh, I don't know... New England(?), they could have a few first rounders to play with. I wonder if Pioli could grab BOTH of the Patriots late first rounders (one from N.O.) for Dorsey and a third round pick. THEN, they could trade down from #6 and grab BOTH of Cincinatti's first round picks... ESPECIALLY if they like the top DE or CB.

I'd love to see the Chiefs sitting there with 4 first rounders. Hell, even if it meant trading away the rest of our draft along with Dorsey to make it happen, I'd want 4 first round picks.

Then, the picks could be:

Riley Reiff-OT
Vontaze Burfict-ILB
David DeCastro-OG
Dontari Poe-NT

If we get to keep our 2nd round pick, my pick would be

If Bowe leaves:
Best available WR

If Bowe stays:
Best available player.

Agreed with most of your post, but if you think someone is going to give us a 1st rd pick for Dorsey then you are the optimist. 3rd rd'er at best for Dorsey at this point. And Bowe is gone. We resigned the players we wanted. Dbowe is dgone.

jap1
11-21-2011, 11:51 PM
Agreed with most of your post, but if you think someone is going to give us a 1st rd pick for Dorsey then you are the optimist. 3rd rd'er at best for Dorsey at this point. And Bowe is gone. We resigned the players we wanted. Dbowe is dgone.

I also agree with most of what Tex wrote. I also agree that we probably wouldnt be able to get a 1st rounder for Dorsey, although I think we could get a 2nd rounder. One problem with his picks are that if we send Dorsey away, I dont know who would replace him. We would have to draft a 3-4DE or get one in Free Agnecy.

texaschief
11-22-2011, 12:45 AM
I also agree with most of what Tex wrote. I also agree that we probably wouldnt be able to get a 1st rounder for Dorsey, although I think we could get a 2nd rounder. One problem with his picks are that if we send Dorsey away, I dont know who would replace him. We would have to draft a 3-4DE or get one in Free Agnecy.

Dorsey was #5 overall. He's extremely talented in a system that isn't a 3-4. Scouts should know this. Hell, even in a 3-4, he was extremely disruptive last season, almost to the point that he could've been our best player on defense outside of Hali. Dorsey could bring back a first round pick. He's young, talented and cheap.

For Jap's concern, I'd say go get some talent in free agency. Mario Williams will be a free agent... doubt Houston lets him go though. lol

But you've got John Abraham, Matt Roth, Kroy Biermann, Robert Mathis, Calais Campbell, Jason Jones, and Antonio Garay... all at the DE position. But, if there's a great DE talent to be had in the draft, I'd be all for it. Personally, I just want to see the Chiefs do everything they can to get as many first rounders as possible. I think getting more than 2 this year is possible and should be explored. With all the players who will be returning next season, the Chiefs don't have too many holes to fill and they could shore up most of them in FA and in the draft for the foreseeable future in just one more offseason.

nicfre2011
11-22-2011, 08:37 AM
Regarding Glenn Dorsey, I would agree that he is unfortunately one of the square pegs being fit into a round hole. I definitely think his skill set is best suited to a penetrating 4-3 defensive tackle in a system that can take advantage of his short area burst and quickness. That being said, I really donít see his value being a 1st round pick. I do however think that possibly a team like Philadephia could be interested in trading for Dorsey to help solidify the interior of their defense. The Eagles have two second round pick (their original and the pick received from Arizona in the Kolb trade). I would start with the lower of the second round picks and possibly be willing to trade Dorsey for their second and maybe swap our fourth for their fifth or something like that.

Also, if we are sitting at #6, with the new rookie wage scale, I think there will be teams willing to move up that in the past would be content largely due to the high salary cost. If we could trade down to around pick #12 or so, we could potentially get another second round pick AND still have several options on the board with players that can make an impact for us. And who knows, maybe we can slide down further like Cleveland did before and pick up another pick. I would definitely be happy if we could trade Dorsey for a second round pick and trade down while getting an additional pick.

azchiefsfan
11-22-2011, 08:40 AM
I mentioned K Moore, but if Pioli drafts anyone but linemen, then he and Haley need fired and I will be loud and vocal about it. I am serious, EVERY SINGLE DRAFT PICK MUST BE LINEMEN!!!!!

azchiefsfan
11-22-2011, 08:43 AM
Give Cassel time to throw and we will be unstoppable. Give JC and JB a little hole and they will be unstoppable. Get a couple more decent pass rushers and we can shut down anybody. Any drafts that aren't linemen are throwaways.

70 chiefsfan70
11-22-2011, 09:08 AM
Give Cassel time to throw and we will be unstoppable. Give JC and JB a little hole and they will be unstoppable. Get a couple more decent pass rushers and we can shut down anybody. Any drafts that aren't linemen are throwaways.

Give Cassel the time and he will still not pass accurately and defenses still will only have to guard the run. Cassel will complete a pass here and there but not often enough to win against a good defense. He is not the leader this team needs, he may fit some other team but has proven many times he can't lead the Chiefs. He has lost respect among the receivers. I would rather start Palko, I know he threw 3 picks, but it was his first start but he showed poise and I think he can be a much better leader then Cassel.

Remember Cassel had an awsome Oline in New England and still had the most sacks. Its time to call him what he is. An overpaid fantasy that will not can not lead. But you do have the right to dream!

wolfpack
11-22-2011, 09:25 AM
I also say unless Bowe is cheap,he wontbe back. I also think dorsey shouldbe traded but i think a 3rd willbe the best we can get. Tjack is a joke but he`s a pioli boy so he`s not going anywhere.
Palko is a lefthanded cassel is all, draft a qb. Spend money on a good NT and whatever we can get. To many holes,not enough draft picks and a cheap owner in FA.

70 chiefsfan70
11-22-2011, 09:48 AM
I don't think Bowe will sign with the Chiefs, but then again why would we want to sign him. He has not shown that he is a worthy dependable first round pick. Sure he makes the best catches, but he does not get open as much as I like, and he drops lots of easy catches, maybe he would sign if we promised to bench Cassel.

Ryfo18
11-22-2011, 09:57 AM
I don't think Bowe will sign with the Chiefs, but then again why would we want to sign him. He has not shown that he is a worthy dependable first round pick. Sure he makes the best catches, but he does not get open as much as I like, and he drops lots of easy catches, maybe he would sign if we promised to bench Cassel.

:sign0153: :sign0023: :sign0103:

Codac
11-22-2011, 09:07 PM
Dorsey was #5 overall. He's extremely talented in a system that isn't a 3-4. Scouts should know this. Hell, even in a 3-4, he was extremely disruptive last season, almost to the point that he could've been our best player on defense outside of Hali. Dorsey could bring back a first round pick. He's young, talented and cheap.

For Jap's concern, I'd say go get some talent in free agency. Mario Williams will be a free agent... doubt Houston lets him go though. lol

But you've got John Abraham, Matt Roth, Kroy Biermann, Robert Mathis, Calais Campbell, Jason Jones, and Antonio Garay... all at the DE position. But, if there's a great DE talent to be had in the draft, I'd be all for it. Personally, I just want to see the Chiefs do everything they can to get as many first rounders as possible. I think getting more than 2 this year is possible and should be explored. With all the players who will be returning next season, the Chiefs don't have too many holes to fill and they could shore up most of them in FA and in the draft for the foreseeable future in just one more offseason.

Dorsey is too valuable. We shouldn't let him go. And of those free agents only Calais Campbell is worth looking at for our system. We would more than likely have to draft a big, athletic DT and move him to the DE spot. Few DEs out of college are usable in the 3-4.

Codac
11-22-2011, 09:09 PM
:sign0153: :sign0023: :sign0103:

Agreed. That was a bunch of nonsense. Bowe is one of the best receivers in the league when we can get him the ball. Definitely the best WR the chiefs have had since kennison or alexander.

kcnation
11-22-2011, 10:23 PM
i can't believe some of the posts here,KEEP DORSEY cause you think he is good,wow,the guy is terrible and lazy,and they can get rid of JACKSON too,another lazy LSU TIGER.

BOWE,you say he should not be signed....are you crazy,he is the only player that has preformed for us the last 2 seasons.if we don't sign BOWE we are headed backwards and it will take over 5 years to get competitive again

chiefnut
11-23-2011, 12:48 AM
better revise the thread title, we will be picking 5-10, maybe in the top 5. it is very possible we do not win any more games this year but more likely we win at least 1, maybe 2.

OPLookn
11-23-2011, 11:37 AM
better revise the thread title, we will be picking 5-10, maybe in the top 5. it is very possible we do not win any more games this year but more likely we win at least 1, maybe 2.

Chiefnut I think you've done this before but I have to say "Quoted for truth!". I could see us picking 7th or 8th. The good news is that with the set scale for pay where ever we pick the option to trade down is always there.

Outside of the Packers and the 49ers...wait the 49ers?!? every other team has a minimum of 3 losses. When you look at the teams that are in the gutter I have to say this year has proven just how valuable training camps, preseasons and anything non strike related really is. Seventeen teams are at or below .500, thirteen are at .400 or less.

I did a little bit of math and figured out that 6 of the 32 teams are outside the first standard deviation. A standard bell curve would dictate that around 68.2% of the population should be in this first standard deviation which says that either games are very competitive or there's been a lot of bad football played here and there. I'm going to go with the later.

Got side tracked there with some math but basically I'm saying that we can move up and down a few spots but that's about where I'd see us picking. Wow, lots of talking for such a small statement of I think we'll pick 7th or 8th...

:lol:

Jrudi
11-23-2011, 12:06 PM
I mentioned K Moore, but if Pioli drafts anyone but linemen, then he and Haley need fired and I will be loud and vocal about it. I am serious, EVERY SINGLE DRAFT PICK MUST BE LINEMEN!!!!!

Haha wow I bet you that comment scared Pioli into drafting all Linemen this season, considering I doubt he has ever visited this site, or gives a hoot on how you think he should build his team. Just a thought (I agree we need some Line help on both sides of the ball, I just thought it was a funny comment that just because you would be vocal about your displeasure with the way he is building the team it would make a difference.)


i can't believe some of the posts here,KEEP DORSEY cause you think he is good,wow,the guy is terrible and lazy,and they can get rid of JACKSON too,another lazy LSU TIGER.

BOWE,you say he should not be signed....are you crazy,he is the only player that has preformed for us the last 2 seasons.if we don't sign BOWE we are headed backwards and it will take over 5 years to get competitive again


I did a post on another thread comparing our D-lineman's stats to the Steelers D-line stats (mainly because the Steelers are known for stout D and they are also a 3-4, we can't compare 4-3 d-line stats to 3-4 stats, its like comparing apples to oranges)

anyways, basically what I found was that Dorsey (on average for his carrier) averaged about 20 more tackles per season than both Brett Kiesel and Casey Hampton, and actually averages fairly similar sack totals to Kiesel, and more than Hampton.

My point was to emphasize that 3-4 D-lineman are not meant to put up stat totals similar to a 4-3 D-lineman like Robert Mathis (This is the reason Albert Hayneworth did not want to play last season in Washington, they made a switch to a 3-4)

If you really look at Dorsey's stats' they are pretty competitive to some of the top 3-4 DE's in the league.

Ryfo18
11-23-2011, 12:20 PM
Haha wow I bet you that comment scared Pioli into drafting all Linemen this season, considering I doubt he has ever visited this site, or gives a hoot on how you think he should build his team. Just a thought (I agree we need some Line help on both sides of the ball, I just thought it was a funny comment that just because you would be vocal about your displeasure with the way he is building the team it would make a difference.)




I did a post on another thread comparing our D-lineman's stats to the Steelers D-line stats (mainly because the Steelers are known for stout D and they are also a 3-4, we can't compare 4-3 d-line stats to 3-4 stats, its like comparing apples to oranges)

anyways, basically what I found was that Dorsey (on average for his carrier) averaged about 20 more tackles per season than both Brett Kiesel and Casey Hampton, and actually averages fairly similar sack totals to Kiesel, and more than Hampton.

My point was to emphasize that 3-4 D-lineman are not meant to put up stat totals similar to a 4-3 D-lineman like Robert Mathis (This is the reason Albert Hayneworth did not want to play last season in Washington, they made a switch to a 3-4)

If you really look at Dorsey's stats' they are pretty competitive to some of the top 3-4 DE's in the league.

FWIW, ProFootballFocus (who grades every player on every play) has Dorsey as the 5th best run-stopping 3-4 DE (behind Justin Smith, JJ Watt, Randy Starks, and Mike Devito). His downfall is his pass rushing, as he's the 2nd worst 3-4 DE in that category.

Tyson Jackson is 9th when it comes to run stopping and 24th (out of 31) in pass rush.

These aren't really too surprising to me, as this team has struggled to russ the passer all year.

nicfre2011
11-23-2011, 12:30 PM
FWIW, ProFootballFocus (who grades every player on every play) has Dorsey as the 5th best run-stopping 3-4 DE (behind Justin Smith, JJ Watt, Randy Starks, and Mike Devito). His downfall is his pass rushing, as he's the 2nd worst 3-4 DE in that category.

Tyson Jackson is 9th when it comes to run stopping and 24th (out of 31) in pass rush.

These aren't really too surprising to me, as this team has struggled to russ the passer all year.

And that in a nutshell is my problem with the traditional Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 defensive scheme. It relies too much on "specialized" and specific roles for the front because of the responsibility of handling 2 gaps. So when taken in the context of the F-B system that Crennel uses, they aren't horrible, although the Denver game was a horrible example of not being able to stop what you know is coming. But due to the inflexibility of this system, the ends do not provide a pass rush to essentially any extent. And thus the problem, Tyson Jackson is a very specific 3-4 F-B defensive end. I don't think he would work well in a 1 gap system..and I don't think he could be a 4-3 defensive tackle and definitely not a 4-3 defensive end. Glenn Dorsey is more versatile and I think he would be a much better 1 gap than 2 gap 3-4 end (although not substantially better). Where I see Dorsey as being the best value is as a penetrating 4-3 defensive tackle (think Philadelphia Eagles for example) where he can use his short area quickness to penetrate into the backfield.

As it stands now, both are playing read-and-react defense.

TopekaRoy
11-23-2011, 01:52 PM
BOWE ... is the only player that has preformed for us the last 2 seasons.

Wait a minute! Are you saying Jamaal Charles, Brandon Flowers and Tamba Hali haven't "preformed for us" in the last year?

What!?!

Jrudi
11-23-2011, 02:06 PM
FWIW, ProFootballFocus (who grades every player on every play) has Dorsey as the 5th best run-stopping 3-4 DE (behind Justin Smith, JJ Watt, Randy Starks, and Mike Devito). His downfall is his pass rushing, as he's the 2nd worst 3-4 DE in that category.

Tyson Jackson is 9th when it comes to run stopping and 24th (out of 31) in pass rush.

These aren't really too surprising to me, as this team has struggled to russ the passer all year.

I could agree with that.... But I also agree with the post directly after yours in that, this system isn't fitting their pass rush, it is more of a read and react Defense therefor hindering their pass rush capabilities.

nicfre2011
11-23-2011, 03:22 PM
I could agree with that.... But I also agree with the post directly after yours in that, this system isn't fitting their pass rush, it is more of a read and react Defense therefor hindering their pass rush capabilities.

Except the problem with Jackson is he was never much of a pass rusher as a 4-3 defensive end while at LSU..so I don't think he brings much value beyond a run stopper...he is pretty limited....which was my big problem when he was drafted where he was. The 3-4 defensive end is not the foundation you build the 3-4 defense...nose tackle is. There just isn't the inherent value in the position to warrant such a high selection, and Jackson didn't bring much value other than run defense to the 3-4 end position anyway. It wasn't like we were getting a Richard Seymour type of prospect who could hold the end AND get after the quarterback.

Jrudi
11-23-2011, 04:57 PM
Except the problem with Jackson is he was never much of a pass rusher as a 4-3 defensive end while at LSU..so I don't think he brings much value beyond a run stopper...he is pretty limited....which was my big problem when he was drafted where he was. The 3-4 defensive end is not the foundation you build the 3-4 defense...nose tackle is. There just isn't the inherent value in the position to warrant such a high selection, and Jackson didn't bring much value other than run defense to the 3-4 end position anyway. It wasn't like we were getting a Richard Seymour type of prospect who could hold the end AND get after the quarterback.

No, I agree with you about Jackson, earlier I was more defending Dorsey for being better than what he is given credit for.

Jackson was just a complete reach, and I've heard that Pioli was in the works to trade back, but couldn't get it done in time, so they had to hurry, and took Jackson (which they wanted later on, if they traded back)

Although I was pushing for us to take Aaronn Curry (Which has also been unproductive) or Brian Orakpo (which is doing quite well) looking back, we could have grabbed B.J. Raji. Hindsight is always 20/20

Jrudi
11-23-2011, 05:33 PM
WOW... I just went back an looked at that 2009 draft, and I never realized how horrible it was.

Round 1- Tyson Jackson (we all know what we think of him)
Round 2- None (Traded to NE for Cassel and Vrabel)
Round 3- Alex Magee (No longer with team, traded to tampa for I think a 5th rounder)
Round 4- Donald Washinton (Didn't work out as a nickle, converted to safety and well we've witnessed how this has worked out)
Round 5- Collin Brown (Never Made the active roster for us, was gone in 2010 and played for the Hartford Colonials, then with the Ravens and is now with the Bills)
Round 6- Quinten Lawrence (Started as a WR, converted to DB this year to help save his career, has never really made it off our practice squad roster)
Round 7- Jarvaris Williams (Didn't make the active roster until December, was activated due to an injury to Kolby Smith, remember him haha, spent 2010 season and 2011 pre-season with Seattle, was cut this year, and is now on the Houston texans practice squad)

Of this ENTIRE draft class, I would not consider one of these players a Success!

Players we could have had with our 1st 2 picks:
Round 1- B.J. Raji, Brian Orakpo, & Andre Smith
Round 3- Micheal Johnson (DE Cincinatti Bengals now..I remember watching this dude play at Georgie Tech, and was a beast, would have made a nice OLB oposite Hali), Mike Wallace, Laderius Webb,

nicfre2011
11-23-2011, 06:30 PM
WOW... I just went back an looked at that 2009 draft, and I never realized how horrible it was.

Round 1- Tyson Jackson (we all know what we think of him)
Round 2- None (Traded to NE for Cassel and Vrabel)
Round 3- Alex Magee (No longer with team, traded to tampa for I think a 5th rounder)
Round 4- Donald Washinton (Didn't work out as a nickle, converted to safety and well we've witnessed how this has worked out)
Round 5- Collin Brown (Never Made the active roster for us, was gone in 2010 and played for the Hartford Colonials, then with the Ravens and is now with the Bills)
Round 6- Quinten Lawrence (Started as a WR, converted to DB this year to help save his career, has never really made it off our practice squad roster)
Round 7- Jarvaris Williams (Didn't make the active roster until December, was activated due to an injury to Kolby Smith, remember him haha, spent 2010 season and 2011 pre-season with Seattle, was cut this year, and is now on the Houston texans practice squad)

Of this ENTIRE draft class, I would not consider one of these players a Success!

Players we could have had with our 1st 2 picks:
Round 1- B.J. Raji, Brian Orakpo, & Andre Smith
Round 3- Micheal Johnson (DE Cincinatti Bengals now..I remember watching this dude play at Georgie Tech, and was a beast, would have made a nice OLB oposite Hali), Mike Wallace, Laderius Webb,

Yeah, that was a rough draft. I remember when Pioli took what really disappointed me was I don't think he had even finished assembling a complete coaching staff and he proclaimed that the Chiefs would convert to a 3-4 defense. That was my first inkling that Pioli might have a hard time thinking outside of the "Patriot-box". Fortunately for us Tamba Hali was able to make the transition...and Derrick Johnson as well. Dorsey is playing to the level a player out of position could be expected. When I finally accepted we were changing our defense (remember Haley's buddy Clancy Pendergast who was forced into making the change and who was a last minute hire?), I wanted B.J. Raji....largely for his scheme versatility. Raji could have played 3-4 end or nose tackle depending on where he needed to play.

josh1971
11-23-2011, 08:36 PM
Not sure it matters who is available in the draft. Since the 2002/2003 season, the AFC has been represented in the Super Bowl by the Colts, Pats, or Steelers. Parity my a$S

nicfre2011
11-23-2011, 09:37 PM
Not sure it matters who is available in the draft. Since the 2002/2003 season, the AFC has been represented in the Super Bowl by the Colts, Pats, or Steelers. Parity my a

Well, until somebody knocks them off of the hill, they are the kings.

josh1971
11-23-2011, 11:11 PM
Well, until somebody knocks them off of the hill, they are the kings.

Actually, this year the only one of those three I'd see as a contender is the Pats. The colts? Umm... no.

The Steelers are getting old in a few areas, but they're still good.

As someone else pointed out in another thread, I'm just getting sick and tired of always going to the "well... NEXT year we're going to be great!"

I want us to get to that year.

Ryfo18
11-23-2011, 11:51 PM
Actually, this year the only one of those three I'd see as a contender is the Pats. The colts? Umm... no.

The Steelers are getting old in a few areas, but they're still good.

As someone else pointed out in another thread, I'm just getting sick and tired of always going to the "well... NEXT year we're going to be great!"

I want us to get to that year.

Most of these teams have one thing in common: a great quarterback.

Two of those teams, the Steelers and Patriots, have good draft after good draft, keeping hte pipeline filled with talent. The Packers are also doing a good job of this as well.

kcnation
11-24-2011, 12:35 AM
Wait a minute! Are you saying Jamaal Charles, Brandon Flowers and Tamba Hali haven't "preformed for us" in the last year?

What!?!



maybe i should have clarified it better,those others mentioned we have already locked up for a while and yes they have preformed well for us,but im really talking about on offense,we need bowe the way he has been playing since last year when they really got on him about holding onto the ball and being more aggressive at wideout.in that respect he has stepped up and showed he can be and is a top reciever in the nfl.

sorry if it sounded differently,but i really believe we need to resign bowe to a long term contract

AussieChiefsFan
11-24-2011, 01:47 AM
WOW... I just went back an looked at that 2009 draft, and I never realized how horrible it was.

Round 1- Tyson Jackson (we all know what we think of him)
Round 2- None (Traded to NE for Cassel and Vrabel)
Round 3- Alex Magee (No longer with team, traded to tampa for I think a 5th rounder)
Round 4- Donald Washinton (Didn't work out as a nickle, converted to safety and well we've witnessed how this has worked out)
Round 5- Collin Brown (Never Made the active roster for us, was gone in 2010 and played for the Hartford Colonials, then with the Ravens and is now with the Bills)
Round 6- Quinten Lawrence (Started as a WR, converted to DB this year to help save his career, has never really made it off our practice squad roster)
Round 7- Jarvaris Williams (Didn't make the active roster until December, was activated due to an injury to Kolby Smith, remember him haha, spent 2010 season and 2011 pre-season with Seattle, was cut this year, and is now on the Houston texans practice squad)

Of this ENTIRE draft class, I would not consider one of these players a Success!

Players we could have had with our 1st 2 picks:
Round 1- B.J. Raji, Brian Orakpo, & Andre Smith
Round 3- Micheal Johnson (DE Cincinatti Bengals now..I remember watching this dude play at Georgie Tech, and was a beast, would have made a nice OLB oposite Hali), Mike Wallace, Laderius Webb,Oh god, the players we could have had. And I think Jackson wasn't even projected to go that highly anyway.

Jrudi
11-24-2011, 09:48 AM
Most of these teams have one thing in common: a great quarterback.

Two of those teams, the Steelers and Patriots, have good draft after good draft, keeping hte pipeline filled with talent. The Packers are also doing a good job of this as well.

I think that is what keeps those teams so talented, their scouts are our of their minds when it comes to adding talent. Pioli is supposed to be the Nostradamus of talent, but so far I haven't seen it in action here... In 3 years 1 group of talented players have been added. Last year still has yet to show me anything (although I liked a few of the players we got, they just haven't had opportunity like the 2010 crop.)


Oh god, the players we could have had. And I think Jackson wasn't even projected to go that highly anyway.

He actually wasn't, he was projected anywhere from like picks 12-16 if I remember right, I think a lot of projections had him going at 14...

Yes the players we could have had... Could you imagine our D with Hali and Orakpo? Holy Crap that would have been awsome, or even Raji! In one small defense of Pioli that entire draft class as a hole has yet to produce much NFL talent, and seems like it just wasn't a strong year. But with him supposedly having this awsome eye for talent....I can't help but say, why didn't you see those guys (Both Raji and Orakpo were projected at top 10 guys, and both were selected inside the top 10)

TopekaRoy
11-24-2011, 01:15 PM
That's the problem with draft picks - You only get one (usually) in each round. Lot's of players picked in the first 3 rounds turn out to be busts. You draft biggest need or best player available and you don't know if you made a good pick sometimes for 2 or 3 years (Dwayne Bowe).

It's easy to say 3 years later that "we could have had 'so-and-so' in round 5, but those players went late in the draft because none of the 43 NFL teams thought they were worthy of a higher pick. Sometimes you get lucky and have more hits than misses and the teams that do are generally pretty good a few years later.

It's safer to get good players in free agency but obviously a lot more expensive and those players are older and won't be around as long so you need a good balance. It's not easy and there is quite a bit of luck involved.

By the way, we also could have had Clay Matthews that year. It's too bad you can't draft players who are already in the NFL. That would be a lot easier!

OPLookn
11-25-2011, 11:02 AM
WOW... I just went back an looked at that 2009 draft, and I never realized how horrible it was.

Round 1- Tyson Jackson (we all know what we think of him)
Round 2- None (Traded to NE for Cassel and Vrabel)
Round 3- Alex Magee (No longer with team, traded to tampa for I think a 5th rounder)
Round 4- Donald Washinton (Didn't work out as a nickle, converted to safety and well we've witnessed how this has worked out)
Round 5- Collin Brown (Never Made the active roster for us, was gone in 2010 and played for the Hartford Colonials, then with the Ravens and is now with the Bills)
Round 6- Quinten Lawrence (Started as a WR, converted to DB this year to help save his career, has never really made it off our practice squad roster)
Round 7- Jarvaris Williams (Didn't make the active roster until December, was activated due to an injury to Kolby Smith, remember him haha, spent 2010 season and 2011 pre-season with Seattle, was cut this year, and is now on the Houston texans practice squad)

Of this ENTIRE draft class, I would not consider one of these players a Success!

Players we could have had with our 1st 2 picks:
Round 1- B.J. Raji, Brian Orakpo, & Andre Smith
Round 3- Micheal Johnson (DE Cincinatti Bengals now..I remember watching this dude play at Georgie Tech, and was a beast, would have made a nice OLB oposite Hali), Mike Wallace, Laderius Webb,

When not hurt let's go ahead and take a look at Pioli's second year picks while we're at it then...

Round 1 - Eric Berry
Round 2a - Dexter McCluster
Round 2b - Javier Arenas
Round 3a - Jon Asamoah
Round 3b - Tony Moeaki
Round 5a - Kendrick Lewis
Round 5b - Cameron Sheffield

No doubt that Pioli had a bad year in 2009 for draft picks but he'd just been hired a month or two back, didn't have all of his coaches and just had got Haley. When you figure that each draft will have two or three usable picks between 2009 and 2010 we've averaged out.

Then there's 2011:
Round 1 - Jon Baldwin (starter)
Round 2 - Rodney Hudson (in development to start next year)
Round 3a - Justin Houston (rotational/developing player)
Round 3b - Allen Bailey (rotational player)
Round 4 - Jalil Brown (rotational player)
Round 5a - Ricky Stanzi (developing player)
Round 5b - Gabe Miller (uhmmm ?)
Round 6 - Jerrell Powe (rotational/developing player)
Round 7 - Shane Bannon (no longer with the team)

Based on this I'll go ahead and say that Pioli is doing his job just fine. One bad draft, meh...everyone has them. We're building this team through the draft and then adding players as we need them. Like I said I'm giving 2009 a pass since having seen the last two drafts be very successful and still have the ability to be even more successful with continued player growth.

texaschief
11-25-2011, 02:53 PM
In Pioli's defense, 2009 was a horrible draft for everyone. It was already being talked about as the shallowest draft in a very VERY long time. He had only been on the job a couple months. I HATED the draft from the 1st pick thru the last and you can go back see how much I hated it. In 2010, he did a good job. He took a few players like Arenas and Moeaki that I wouldn't have taken because I thought they represented poor value where they were taken, but they're at least contributing.

I LOVED the 2011 draft. So, maybe I'm warming up to Pioli's picks... or maybe he's just picking better. :lol:

On a separate note... if Bowe leaves in free agency, Jeff Fuller from A&M would be a good 2nd round pick to keep an eye on. He was projected to be a first round player, but a poor 2011 could allow him to slide a bit. Fuller and Baldwin would be a great 1-2 punch for years to come, imo

hardcorechiefsfan
11-26-2011, 11:16 PM
How about we draft only quarterbacks and then have our own little competition to see which one is the best, keep the top 3.

Bike
11-26-2011, 11:38 PM
Draft the best Offensive lineman available - if Barkley is gone.

Ryfo18
11-27-2011, 12:44 AM
Round 3b - Tony Moeaki

Of course hindsight is 20/20, but we drafted Moeaki one pick before Jimmy Graham went to New Orleans.

Don't get me wrong, I think Moeaki is a solid player, but even in college he was plagued by injuries...Imagine if we had Jimmy Graham as an offensive weapon as well!

Jrudi
11-28-2011, 11:18 AM
I haven't been a fan of the idea to draft a QB in the 1st round next year.....I've always thought if we had a better O-line Cassel would be much better.

BUT, recently I have began to change my mind. I believe the Palko has made our O-line look so much better than it has with Cassel. I think with his ability to avoid pressure, and move around the pocket, it has made me realize that I think Cassel is the Problem with our O-Line... I have always thought he holds onto the ball to long, but I have also realized that he is quite immobile when it comes to avoiding pressure.

Cassel is much more accurate than Palko (which he could also be better in this area) and Palko is much more athletic and mobile than Cassel.

Which has brought me to the idea that our biggest needs on this team is a Franchise QB (and I used to never think this way)

Hudson stepped in for Lilja last night, and looked Great, Albert actually had a good game against a good Steelers pass rush. I think instead of Drafting a Guy like Reiff from Iowa to take over LT for Albert (which was my previous thinking) I think a guy like RGIII wouldn't be a bad idea.

It all depends on where we land to pick, but my thoughts on drafting a possible Franchise QB has started to change since Plako took over. (We all have to admit it... even though Palko is very inaccurate, our offense has sparked a little more with Palko, we have moved the ball, we just haven't put points on the board.)

Ryfo18
11-28-2011, 12:16 PM
I haven't been a fan of the idea to draft a QB in the 1st round next year.....I've always thought if we had a better O-line Cassel would be much better.

BUT, recently I have began to change my mind. I believe the Palko has made our O-line look so much better than it has with Cassel. I think with his ability to avoid pressure, and move around the pocket, it has made me realize that I think Cassel is the Problem with our O-Line... I have always thought he holds onto the ball to long, but I have also realized that he is quite immobile when it comes to avoiding pressure.

Cassel is much more accurate than Palko (which he could also be better in this area) and Palko is much more athletic and mobile than Cassel.

Which has brought me to the idea that our biggest needs on this team is a Franchise QB (and I used to never think this way)

Hudson stepped in for Lilja last night, and looked Great, Albert actually had a good game against a good Steelers pass rush. I think instead of Drafting a Guy like Reiff from Iowa to take over LT for Albert (which was my previous thinking) I think a guy like RGIII wouldn't be a bad idea.

It all depends on where we land to pick, but my thoughts on drafting a possible Franchise QB has started to change since Plako took over. (We all have to admit it... even though Palko is very inaccurate, our offense has sparked a little more with Palko, we have moved the ball, we just haven't put points on the board.)

I agree with this big time. Not only do I think Cassel tends to hold onto the ball too long, I also think he panics at the first hint of pressure and just tucks it and runs. This makes it look as if the O-line is playing horrible, but so many times yesterday Palko, unlike Cassel, just continued to sit in the pocket and have time to throw the ball...and this coming against a Steelers team that loves to blitz and has always had success getting pressure on the quarterback.

nicfre2011
11-28-2011, 12:32 PM
I agree with this big time. Not only do I think Cassel tends to hold onto the ball too long, I also think he panics at the first hint of pressure and just tucks it and runs. This makes it look as if the O-line is playing horrible, but so many times yesterday Palko, unlike Cassel, just continued to sit in the pocket and have time to throw the ball...and this coming against a Steelers team that loves to blitz and has always had success getting pressure on the quarterback.

I agree. Cassel doesn't have good pocket awareness and certainly doesn't seem to have a good pocket presence. He doesn't slide well to avoid pressure and quickly breaks down in his read progression and really seems to rush things. I believe that is his downfall...he doesn't process what is happening quick enough and when he "feels" pressure...real or imagined, he panics and that is why he tends to go with the check-down option play after play.

IMO, he is going to have a hard time ever improving because he is a game-manager mentality quarterback that panics too soon and completely breaks down.

Personally, I don't think Palko is the long term solution...or even the best short term solution. But what I think he proves is.....is how dangerous our offense COULD be if we had a quarterback that has good pocket awareness and presence...with an understanding what IS and IS NOT going on around him. Palko doesn't have that last part, and his phyiscal limitations will always hold him back....but to me watching him atleast do something gives me hope that if we had the right starting quarterback we could really compete.

Jrudi
11-28-2011, 02:38 PM
I agree with this big time. Not only do I think Cassel tends to hold onto the ball too long, I also think he panics at the first hint of pressure and just tucks it and runs. This makes it look as if the O-line is playing horrible, but so many times yesterday Palko, unlike Cassel, just continued to sit in the pocket and have time to throw the ball...and this coming against a Steelers team that loves to blitz and has always had success getting pressure on the quarterback.

Another thought that ran through my head last night. We looked very good against a stout Steelers D (Paulomalu or not) every player on that D is one of the best at their respective positions. and they aren't considered a top Defense for no reason. They are good at what they do.

I also wanted to give Hudson Props for stepping in at LG for Lilja. He played an awesome game, and made me feel much better about when he takes over for Wiegmann next season.


I agree. Cassel doesn't have good pocket awareness and certainly doesn't seem to have a good pocket presence. He doesn't slide well to avoid pressure and quickly breaks down in his read progression and really seems to rush things. I believe that is his downfall...he doesn't process what is happening quick enough and when he "feels" pressure...real or imagined, he panics and that is why he tends to go with the check-down option play after play.

IMO, he is going to have a hard time ever improving because he is a game-manager mentality quarterback that panics too soon and completely breaks down.

Personally, I don't think Palko is the long term solution...or even the best short term solution. But what I think he proves is.....is how dangerous our offense COULD be if we had a quarterback that has good pocket awareness and presence...with an understanding what IS and IS NOT going on around him. Palko doesn't have that last part, and his phyiscal limitations will always hold him back....but to me watching him atleast do something gives me hope that if we had the right starting quarterback we could really compete.

I by no means think Plako is our answer at QB as well, I like you, just wanted to point out what Palko has allowed me to discover, which is that Cassel's pocket awareness and decision making is a BIG weakness of this team (which I had previously not thought). With Palko being naturally more athletic, It showed that he really had decent time and opportunity to make his decisions. (even if some were bad haha)

I truly think that we could say if we would have had a legit QB last night leading our team, that game would have ended with a win. Our Offense can move the ball, we just need the right person to run it. (Could you imagine the possibilities of having an athletic QB like Robert Griffen back there?? Wow, if he panned out that would be awesome and we would be an offense that would be hard to stop)

Another thought that ran through my head last night. Our Defense played awesome last night. Just imagine if we had Berry back, and had an offense that could sustain drives to keep them off the field and rested.

nicfre2011
11-28-2011, 03:24 PM
Another thought that ran through my head last night. We looked very good against a stout Steelers D (Paulomalu or not) every player on that D is one of the best at their respective positions. and they aren't considered a top Defense for no reason. They are good at what they do.

I also wanted to give Hudson Props for stepping in at LG for Lilja. He played an awesome game, and made me feel much better about when he takes over for Wiegmann next season.



I by no means think Plako is our answer at QB as well, I like you, just wanted to point out what Palko has allowed me to discover, which is that Cassel's pocket awareness and decision making is a BIG weakness of this team (which I had previously not thought). With Palko being naturally more athletic, It showed that he really had decent time and opportunity to make his decisions. (even if some were bad haha)

I truly think that we could say if we would have had a legit QB last night leading our team, that game would have ended with a win. Our Offense can move the ball, we just need the right person to run it. (Could you imagine the possibilities of having an athletic QB like Robert Griffen back there?? Wow, if he panned out that would be awesome and we would be an offense that would be hard to stop)

Another thought that ran through my head last night. Our Defense played awesome last night. Just imagine if we had Berry back, and had an offense that could sustain drives to keep them off the field and rested.

I do agree with your comment on Robert Griffin. I would also add that I think someone with Matt Barkley's skill set/abilities could also have led us to a win. From Day 1 in the NFL? Maybe not, but while they would have probably had the same jitters that Palko had, unlike Palko, both Griffin and Barkley have the physical skill set to make the necessary throws to lead a team to victory. Palko has a gun slingers mentality without the necessary arm strength to get away with taking chances. I will also add that a 2012 free agent like Matt Flynn also seems to have shown the qualities you look for in a starting quarterback. He doesn't have a canon for an arm like Griffin, but is more of a game manager with mobility, but not the extreme game manager that Cassel is.

Honestly, if I were in charge, I would consider talking with Flynn this offseason to see if he would consider signing a contract that would allow him to compete with Ricky Stanzi for a starting role next year..then part ways with Cassel. Now that Orton is in the mix, I would let him audition for a longer term role...with the idea that he would compete with Stanzi next year. If Orton wants to leave, or really struggles during games this year, you let him walk and look at Flynn.

I get the feeling that Barkley and Griffin could end up returning...and if one declares, I don't think they will be on board when we are selecting.

Jrudi
11-28-2011, 05:03 PM
I do agree with your comment on Robert Griffin. I would also add that I think someone with Matt Barkley's skill set/abilities could also have led us to a win. From Day 1 in the NFL? Maybe not, but while they would have probably had the same jitters that Palko had, unlike Palko, both Griffin and Barkley have the physical skill set to make the necessary throws to lead a team to victory. Palko has a gun slingers mentality without the necessary arm strength to get away with taking chances. I will also add that a 2012 free agent like Matt Flynn also seems to have shown the qualities you look for in a starting quarterback. He doesn't have a canon for an arm like Griffin, but is more of a game manager with mobility, but not the extreme game manager that Cassel is.

Honestly, if I were in charge, I would consider talking with Flynn this offseason to see if he would consider signing a contract that would allow him to compete with Ricky Stanzi for a starting role next year..then part ways with Cassel. Now that Orton is in the mix, I would let him audition for a longer term role...with the idea that he would compete with Stanzi next year. If Orton wants to leave, or really struggles during games this year, you let him walk and look at Flynn.

I get the feeling that Barkley and Griffin could end up returning...and if one declares, I don't think they will be on board when we are selecting.

I wouldn't mind Matt Flynn being a Chief, but not really sure if he could be "The Guy" when it came to leading a team. Reminds me more of a role player/game manager.

josh1971
11-29-2011, 10:30 AM
I think our most glaring need is at RT. I also wouldn't mind at all seeing someone who could rush the %^%^*(&#%^ passer!!!!!!!!

Tamba Hali IS our pass rush.

chiefnut
11-30-2011, 08:44 AM
it doesn't really matter where we pick as long as we pick the BEST player available....we need help at nearly every position except CB

OPLookn
11-30-2011, 10:57 AM
it doesn't really matter where we pick as long as we pick the BEST player available....we need help at nearly every position except CB

When Pioli took over CP and Herm had drafted some good players but the entire team as a whole was well to be blunt like the Royals. The backups were poor and the third string even worse. Herm could evaluate talent if anything and I do have to give that to him even as much as I dislike his coaching.

Because of the few good drafts he had and the couple good drafts that Pioli has had (2010 and 2011) we've got most of the starters back to starting material or at least to me we have. Barring our RT we're fairly set at starters that won't go out and embarrass themselves. Our D is playing lights out at times but at this point it's consistency which to me says the talent is there we just need to tweak it or draft a few players to challenge or take the spots of others.

The biggest need I see is filling the holes mentioned above and then start working on drafting other players that will challenge the starters so that regardless of who starts if the starter goes down we'll have a legitimate backup that can come in and won't cause the fan base to start talking about next year (insert Tyler Palko story here). I think with another good draft class combined with some successful free agency and in 2012 we'd be primed for a playoff run and possibly even a deep playoff run.

If one or the other fails I'd say that the prediction moves to 2013 but at this point 2012 seems to be a good year. Granted this is based off our injured starters coming back and picking up where they left off. I've seen as many of you have that a player gets injured and then they come back and hold back because their worried about getting injured and what not.

As for my thought on first pick in the draft I still say we should take a O-lineman but I won't be disappointed with a new shiny QB. Because lets be honest everyone loves a new shiny QB that can run and gun and get the people talking.

Since we're talking about draft picks I have to say that I love WalterFootball's draft picks for us (http://walterfootball.com/draft2012.php). If we could get these I'd be as happy as a pig in poo.

Round 1 - "Landry "Lance" Jones, QB, Oklahoma
It was rumored that Todd Haley could be fired following a slow start at the beginning of the season. The scuttlebutt died down once the Chiefs won a few consecutive games, but if they finish with four or five victories, Haley's as good as gone.

If Haley leaves, I think Matt Cassel is going with him. Cassel is owed $5.25 million in 2012, so Scott Pioli could easily get rid of him in the spring. If so, he'll definitely be interested in one of the four franchise quarterbacks available in the 2012 NFL Draft."

Round 2 - "Alameda Ta'amu, NT, Washington
If the Chiefs aren't confident in sixth-round rookie Jerrell Powe's progression, they could opt to select their nose tackle of the future in this spot."

Round 3 - "Brandon Mosley, OT, Auburn
Right tackle Barry Richardson is a sieve in pass protection, so if Jared Gaither can't recover from his back injury, Kansas City will be looking for an upgrade at the position."

Jrudi
11-30-2011, 11:06 AM
When Pioli took over CP and Herm had drafted some good players but the entire team as a whole was well to be blunt like the Royals. The backups were poor and the third string even worse. Herm could evaluate talent if anything and I do have to give that to him even as much as I dislike his coaching.

Because of the few good drafts he had and the couple good drafts that Pioli has had (2010 and 2011) we've got most of the starters back to starting material or at least to me we have. Barring our RT we're fairly set at starters that won't go out and embarrass themselves. Our D is playing lights out at times but at this point it's consistency which to me says the talent is there we just need to tweak it or draft a few players to challenge or take the spots of others.

The biggest need I see is filling the holes mentioned above and then start working on drafting other players that will challenge the starters so that regardless of who starts if the starter goes down we'll have a legitimate backup that can come in and won't cause the fan base to start talking about next year (insert Tyler Palko story here). I think with another good draft class combined with some successful free agency and in 2012 we'd be primed for a playoff run and possibly even a deep playoff run.

If one or the other fails I'd say that the prediction moves to 2013 but at this point 2012 seems to be a good year. Granted this is based off our injured starters coming back and picking up where they left off. I've seen as many of you have that a player gets injured and then they come back and hold back because their worried about getting injured and what not.

As for my thought on first pick in the draft I still say we should take a O-lineman but I won't be disappointed with a new shiny QB. Because lets be honest everyone loves a new shiny QB that can run and gun and get the people talking.

Since we're talking about draft picks I have to say that I love WalterFootball's draft picks for us (http://walterfootball.com/draft2012.php) (http://walterfootball.com/draft2012.php%29). If we could get these I'd be as happy as a pig in poo.

Round 1 - "Landry "Lance" Jones, QB, Oklahoma
It was rumored that Todd Haley could be fired following a slow start at the beginning of the season. The scuttlebutt died down once the Chiefs won a few consecutive games, but if they finish with four or five victories, Haley's as good as gone.

If Haley leaves, I think Matt Cassel is going with him. Cassel is owed $5.25 million in 2012, so Scott Pioli could easily get rid of him in the spring. If so, he'll definitely be interested in one of the four franchise quarterbacks available in the 2012 NFL Draft."

Round 2 - "Alameda Ta'amu, NT, Washington
If the Chiefs aren't confident in sixth-round rookie Jerrell Powe's progression, they could opt to select their nose tackle of the future in this spot."

Round 3 - "Brandon Mosley, OT, Auburn
Right tackle Barry Richardson is a sieve in pass protection, so if Jared Gaither can't recover from his back injury, Kansas City will be looking for an upgrade at the position."


I liked these picks as well. Although I would love it if we were able to grab Robert Griffen from Baylor. I think with his mobility, our offense could be nasty and he will help with our O-line in the sense that he can move around and avoid pressure.

Not sure if he will be there, but if it's close (2-3 picks from us) , maybe we trade up???

OPLookn
11-30-2011, 11:24 AM
I liked these picks as well. Although I would love it if we were able to grab Robert Griffen from Baylor. I think with his mobility, our offense could be nasty and he will help with our O-line in the sense that he can move around and avoid pressure.

Not sure if he will be there, but if it's close (2-3 picks from us) , maybe we trade up???

To be honest the only thing I see the Chiefs trading up for is for a stud LT like Khalil or Martin (Stanford). To me RG3 doesn't fit the mold of what Pioli and company want this team to be. It seems that we want a stand in there and pass if we haven't handed the ball off kind of offense. Jones seems to fit that mold perfectly, so do Luck and Barkley but I don't see us trading up unless it's just one or two spots. There are still to many needs left to give up picks. Especially when we want to bring in guys to challenge starters.

The only way I see us picking up RG3 is if Haley is fired. With a new coach usually comes a new QB. If that's the case the coach might look at how the O-line has worked with a guy like Palko and goes with RG3.

Jrudi
11-30-2011, 11:41 AM
Did want to point out one more thing about the NT's in this class, all that I have read up on that would fit our system seem like the area they need to improve on is pass rush.

Which like I've mentioned, 3-4 D-lineman arent' expected to get 10-15 sacks a season like a 4-3 D-lineman, but just thought I would toss that out there that, I'm not neccessarily sure that our middle pass rush will improve temendously with one of these draft picks that I have looked at.

Specifically Alemdua , and Josh Chapman from Alabama. (Both guys that should go in rounds 2 or 3)

I'm not saying we don't need to draft one, I will love it if we can get a stud NT to man that middle, just a pre warning, that I don't want to see our fan base expect more than what they get, and kick and scream if the dudes don't rush the passer as well as they had thought, without doing their research.

Anyways I will be stoked if we can get one of these two guys!

Jrudi
11-30-2011, 11:47 AM
To be honest the only thing I see the Chiefs trading up for is for a stud LT like Khalil or Martin (Stanford). To me RG3 doesn't fit the mold of what Pioli and company want this team to be. It seems that we want a stand in there and pass if we haven't handed the ball off kind of offense. Jones seems to fit that mold perfectly, so do Luck and Barkley but I don't see us trading up unless it's just one or two spots. There are still to many needs left to give up picks. Especially when we want to bring in guys to challenge starters.

The only way I see us picking up RG3 is if Haley is fired. With a new coach usually comes a new QB. If that's the case the coach might look at how the O-line has worked with a guy like Palko and goes with RG3.

The main reason I mentioned RG3 was because of his natural athletic ability (which Palko has, and proven that our O-line is not as bad as made out to be). Plus I'm not so sure Muir will remains the OC, so it may give us an opportunity to mold an offensive system to fit a QB like this.

I have heard him compared to Vick, but have heard that he is much better of a pocket passer than Vick was coming out, and that he is similar to how vick was last year, where he goes through his progressions, before pulling and running, where as when Vick came out, he looked at his 1st route, if it wasn't there he took off.

Have just heard scouting reports stating that Griffen is much more of a pocket passer than what he gets credit for and that he has the natural athletic ability to avoid pressure, and run (so possibly more of like a Ben Rothlesberger vs Vick)

Ryfo18
11-30-2011, 12:33 PM
The main reason I mentioned RG3 was because of his natural athletic ability (which Palko has, and proven that our O-line is not as bad as made out to be). Plus I'm not so sure Muir will remains the OC, so it may give us an opportunity to mold an offensive system to fit a QB like this.

I have heard him compared to Vick, but have heard that he is much better of a pocket passer than Vick was coming out, and that he is similar to how vick was last year, where he goes through his progressions, before pulling and running, where as when Vick came out, he looked at his 1st route, if it wasn't there he took off.

Have just heard scouting reports stating that Griffen is much more of a pocket passer than what he gets credit for and that he has the natural athletic ability to avoid pressure, and run (so possibly more of like a Ben Rothlesberger vs Vick)

RG3InKC

Jrudi
11-30-2011, 12:35 PM
RG3InKC

I like it!

josh1971
12-01-2011, 10:55 AM
it doesn't really matter where we pick as long as we pick the BEST player available....we need help at nearly every position except CB

We need help at CB, too. Carr is ok, but just ok.

I'm not sure why everyone wants to draft a QB in round one. You WANT to see him ground into the turf or running for his life every passing down?

We need quality and depth on both our lines.

OPLookn
12-01-2011, 01:10 PM
We need help at CB, too. Carr is ok, but just ok.

I'm not sure why everyone wants to draft a QB in round one. You WANT to see him ground into the turf or running for his life every passing down?

We need quality and depth on both our lines.

The only reason I'd say to get a QB in the first round is that this year is jam packed with QB's. If we get a QB, groom him for a few years and then draft lineman or get them through free agency by the time this first round QB will be ready so will the line.

Short of Khalil (USC) or Martin (Stanford) there isn't a lock down LOT in the draft. The only other plug in tackle I've heard of is Reiff (Iowa) but from what I've heard he'd be a starting RT or a development effort LT. Past that we have our interior starting line set for now. Lilja isn't going to be here forever but he's not killing us. Hudson will take over for Weigmann and Asamoah has started this year and done well.

Based on how our team has played this year I think we need to be offense minded in the draft. Looking at that that's why I've said I wouldn't be upset with drafting a QB and can understand if we did but like you I'd like to see a first round O-Line guy picked.

wolfpack
12-01-2011, 02:15 PM
I think all the better qb`s willbe gone by the time we pick. I want a big,mean monster in the middle of the d-line. Here i think Ta`amu from Washington would work. It all starts at the NT on 3-4 defenses.
Sign in FA or draft whats left for RT in 2nd.

Ryfo18
12-01-2011, 02:26 PM
We need help at CB, too. Carr is ok, but just ok.

I'm not sure why everyone wants to draft a QB in round one. You WANT to see him ground into the turf or running for his life every passing down?

We need quality and depth on both our lines.

Carr will be a free agent next year as well.

OPLookn
12-01-2011, 02:31 PM
I think all the better qb`s willbe gone by the time we pick. I want a big,mean monster in the middle of the d-line. Here i think Ta`amu from Washington would work. It all starts at the NT on 3-4 defenses.
Sign in FA or draft whats left for RT in 2nd.

Ta'amu is projected right now to go in the 2nd. Why would we want to take him that early? I'd akin this to picking Tyson Jackson with our first round pick. Right now we're slated to pick around the 10th spot. With Luck, RG3, Barkley and Jones all available in the draft I'd be shocked if one of those guys isn't available. Especially when you throw in Khalil, Blackmon, Clairborne, Coples, Richardson and several other top talent players.

Right now I think one of the QB's will be there, Jones in my opinion. But I also think that Reiff and Martin will be there too. If anything it'll be interesting to see where the Chiefs feel we are based on who they draft.

OPLookn
12-01-2011, 02:32 PM
Carr will be a free agent next year as well.

I've seen a mock or two where we take Claireborn to fill Carr's spot or add a backup.

pojote
12-01-2011, 02:38 PM
I know we need help at O-line, but a lot of great players are found in lower rounds, even UFA. You can look at Hudson, he is very good. I think Mims (UFA) will develop faster than was thought, and be a starter next year or 2013.
Other positions aren't that kind in lower rounds. Mainly QB's. I wasn't sold at Luck, but I'm totally sold on Barkley, he is solid, with a porous line, most of the time he has to throw on the run, and he does accurately. If he is available, we have to get him, I don't mind even trading up (not that I think Pioli would).

Jrudi
12-01-2011, 05:48 PM
Ta'amu is projected right now to go in the 2nd. Why would we want to take him that early? I'd akin this to picking Tyson Jackson with our first round pick. Right now we're slated to pick around the 10th spot. With Luck, RG3, Barkley and Jones all available in the draft I'd be shocked if one of those guys isn't available. Especially when you throw in Khalil, Blackmon, Clairborne, Coples, Richardson and several other top talent players.

Right now I think one of the QB's will be there, Jones in my opinion. But I also think that Reiff and Martin will be there too. If anything it'll be interesting to see where the Chiefs feel we are based on who they draft.


I was looking at the likelyhood of one of those guys being there, and I think it is highly likely.

Of the teams currently ahead of us in the draft order. only 3 are in dire need of a QB.

Luck will probably go to the Colts at 1.

Then you look at the other teams:
Rams- have Bradford
Panthers- Have Newton
Vikings- Probably not ready to give up on Ponder since they spent a 1st rounder on him last year
Jags- Drafted Gabbert last year, and also are probably not likely ready to give up just yet.
Cardinals- Spent big money to trade for Kolb, and again will likely give him more time.
Eagles- Just paid Vick $100 mil, not likely to let him go either

that leaves us with 2 teams needing QB's and 3 QB's left... the Redskins and Dolphins.

As of right now Barkley is the 2nd rated QB so he will more than likely be gone unless we trade up. Mel Kiper has Landry Jones up next, leaving us to likely land Robert Griffen from Baylor.

Just wanted to mention, that barring any crazy things happening, it could be likely that Jones or Griffen are available when we are on the clock....

josh1971
12-01-2011, 07:16 PM
I think all the better qb`s willbe gone by the time we pick. I want a big,mean monster in the middle of the d-line.

You mean... like Powe?

Ryfo18
12-01-2011, 10:10 PM
I was looking at the likelyhood of one of those guys being there, and I think it is highly likely.

Of the teams currently ahead of us in the draft order. only 3 are in dire need of a QB.

Luck will probably go to the Colts at 1.

Then you look at the other teams:
Rams- have Bradford
Panthers- Have Newton
Vikings- Probably not ready to give up on Ponder since they spent a 1st rounder on him last year
Jags- Drafted Gabbert last year, and also are probably not likely ready to give up just yet.
Cardinals- Spent big money to trade for Kolb, and again will likely give him more time.
Eagles- Just paid Vick $100 mil, not likely to let him go either

that leaves us with 2 teams needing QB's and 3 QB's left... the Redskins and Dolphins.

As of right now Barkley is the 2nd rated QB so he will more than likely be gone unless we trade up. Mel Kiper has Landry Jones up next, leaving us to likely land Robert Griffen from Baylor.

Just wanted to mention, that barring any crazy things happening, it could be likely that Jones or Griffen are available when we are on the clock....

Nice post...and you can bet these teams will be looking for the highest bidder to trade down to.

pojote
12-02-2011, 08:44 AM
You mean... like Powe?

He has a great mentor, namely Gregg. If you can add all the technical abilities that Gregg has to Powe's body, we have the best 2-gap NT in the NFL.

Jrudi
12-02-2011, 11:00 AM
He has a great mentor, namely Gregg. If you can add all the technical abilities that Gregg has to Powe's body, we have the best 2-gap NT in the NFL.

Yeah I would really like to see more of Powe this season...and am not sure why we haven't.

If he works out at NT, it will change how we approach that position in the Draft and off season.

I have 3 scenarios going now, and in all three I have us taking a NT in round 2 or 3 (Teamu' (however it's spelled, or Josh Chapman)

But if Powe can take it over, it would allow us to address another position in rounds 2 or 3.