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marloweopatchiefs
11-28-2011, 02:13 PM
If orton comes in and clicks really well with the offense and they score alot of points and win some games before seasons end. At least 2 or 3. Will people still wanna draft a qb and get rid of orton? Or sign him to a contract and trade cassell?

#58ChiefsFan
11-28-2011, 02:22 PM
If Orton comes in and does well the starting role should be between him and Cassel next year. We don't know about Ricki so they won't draft an early rounder, but they should. I don't think deep down any of our four quarterbacks are the answer.

ctchiefsfan
11-28-2011, 03:58 PM
IF Orton comes in and lights things up then I think we have a "quarterback controversy" next fall and may the best man win......and the loser go. Keeping both of them would be nice, but cap limits will not allow keeping both of them. We need to spend the money elsewhere....like the o line.

Jrudi
11-28-2011, 04:05 PM
I posted on the thread about our Draft projections that seeing Palko play has changed my mind about how I want the chiefs to go about the draft this offseason.

With Palko being more naturally athletic than Cassel, it has shown me that our O-line is not as horrendous as I once thought it was. I have learned that I believe Cassel makes our O-line look worse than what it is by 1- Taking to long to make decisions aka:holding onto the ball to long, & 2-not having a good pocket awareness that allows him to move up, and around to avoid pressure.

So with that said, Back to the Orton thing.... I still think we need to look at adding a QB in the draft if we have the ability to. I look at someone like Robert Griffin as a player that I think could be a HUGE weapon that could be added to this offense.

The reason I say this, is because I don't think that Orton will be our answer either. He may come in and light up our passing game with stats (Like he did with Denver) but will never amount to the leadership role that we need to take us deep into the playoffs and compete for a SB.

To be honest, I think the best thing that can happen with Orton is landing an additional compensatory Draft pick, if he leaves us in FA. I like the idea of having Cassel, Orton, and a high draft pick all on our roster with the idea, that we will have plenty of experience options to choose from, but realistically our pocket book would not allow us to do so, as well as Pioli not wanting to deal with the media drama that comes with having 3 potential starting QB's on the roster.

I think that now with the Rookie Wage scale, it is the right time to look at adding a QB prospect high, because the risk is as low as it has ever been.

#58ChiefsFan
11-28-2011, 05:03 PM
Jrudi nailed it in that last paragraph. Now is the time, they are not going to push Stanzi to become the starter so sell him and get a qbotf they can trust in to back up either Cassel or Orton.

Jrudi
11-28-2011, 05:56 PM
Jrudi nailed it in that last paragraph. Now is the time, they are not going to push Stanzi to become the starter so sell him and get a qbotf they can trust in to back up either Cassel or Orton.

To be honest with you, I'm not so sure they have all that much confidence in Stanzi. I mean yeah it's the "Sexy" move to do right now in the League (Start a rookie QB) But honestly, if they thought he was ready, or would have given us the best chance to win, he would have been out there.

He hadn't even suited up until the Cassel injury, so my thoughts are, they really aren't all that impressed with him just yet. If Orton comes in and is serviceable, I don't think he see's the field at all this season (or he would have already)

#58ChiefsFan
11-28-2011, 06:56 PM
Them carrying three qbs this year may suggest they didn't have much stock in Palko either. Cassel has been an ironman up to the broken hand. I'd venture a guess they had little thought that Matt would not miss any games.

Maybe Palko was done after this year regardless? He is an RFA this year I believe. He sure didn't help his chances when the opportunity was presented.

What scares me is if Orton truly wins the starting position in 2012 what do we do with Cassel. I didn't think he'd be hard to deal but when I think about it what has he done to make a team just want to sign him barring a serious need for a veteran qb.

I think Cassel has better leadership potential than Orton, Matt needs some serious time with Zorn to get the kinks of his game ironed out.

okikcfan
11-28-2011, 07:15 PM
To be honest with you, I'm not so sure they have all that much confidence in Stanzi. I mean yeah it's the "Sexy" move to do right now in the League (Start a rookie QB) But honestly, if they thought he was ready, or would have given us the best chance to win, he would have been out there.

He hadn't even suited up until the Cassel injury, so my thoughts are, they really aren't all that impressed with him just yet. If Orton comes in and is serviceable, I don't think he see's the field at all this season (or he would have already)

Thank You and I agree! We have no idea what the future holds with Orton. What if he turns out to be really good? Many judge him because he was with Denver. Fact is under McDaniels he was pretty good. If he clicks with Haley and our offense the sky could be the limit, sorta speak but at the same time he may not click, He wants to do well here. He wants to be a starter and not just for the remainder of the season. Lets try to look at the upside to all of this. We played pretty well Sunday night. We held the Steelers to 1 touchdown. Thats pretty good. Sunday night showed we do not suck! We put up a good fight and if Orton pays off it could do wonders for the entire team. He has the targets and a pretty good arm. One game at a time here folks, let's kick the crap out of the Bears and move on to the Jets. We wont be the AFC West Champs but we could be a strong second. Nothing would delite me more than to see the Chargers all alone in last place.

:chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs:

ctchiefsfan
11-28-2011, 07:22 PM
Fixed it for you! :chiefs:


Thank You and I agree! We have no idea what the future holds with Orton. What if he turns out to be really good? Many judge him because he was with Denver. Fact is under McDaniels he was pretty good. If he clicks with Haley and our offense the sky could be the limit, sorta speak but at the same time he may not click, He wants to do well here. He wants to be a starter and not just for the remainder of the season. Lets try to look at the upside to all of this. We played pretty well Sunday night. We held the Steelers to 1 touchdown. Thats pretty good. Sunday night showed we do not suck! We put up a good fight and if Orton pays off it could do wonders for the entire team. He has the targets and a pretty good arm. One game at a time here folks, let's kick the crap out of the Bears and move on to the Jets. We wont be the AFC West Champs but we could be a strong second. Nothing would delite me more than to see the RAIDERS all alone in last place.

:chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs:

okikcfan
11-28-2011, 08:44 PM
Well right now that could be a long shot. I want some one to knock Tebow off his High Horse and for everyone else to keep beating Da bolts. But yea that would be nice too!

figcrostic
11-28-2011, 10:44 PM
If Orton comes in and is as good or better then Cassell I would say trade Cassell because of his high salary S can Palko draft a qb after we get a beast on OL. If he isn't as good make him a second stringer.

chief31
11-28-2011, 11:16 PM
If Orton comes in and is as good or better then Cassell I would say trade Cassell because of his high salary S can Palko draft a qb after we get a beast on OL. If he isn't as good make him a second stringer.

I would keep Orton and Cassel. Plenty of cash to go around right now.

Boot Palko, and keep growing Stanzi.

figcrostic
11-28-2011, 11:35 PM
I would keep Orton and Cassel. Plenty of cash to go around right now.

Boot Palko, and keep growing Stanzi.

depending on (in this purely hypothetical scenario) what we are offered for Cassel if for instance we are offered a 1st or 2nd that might be too good to pass on.

ctchiefsfan
11-28-2011, 11:36 PM
I would keep Orton and Cassel. Plenty of cash to go around right now.

Wouldn't we be better off dumping one of them and spending the cash on the O-line?

figcrostic
11-28-2011, 11:50 PM
Wouldn't we be better off dumping one of them and spending the cash on the O-line?

This plus if one is good enough why not focus on developing a younger qb.

ctchiefsfan
11-29-2011, 12:08 AM
This plus if one is good enough why not focus on developing a younger qb.

I'd be good with that. Give us a great O-line and either Cassel or Orton will make us a playoff team every year......while we try to develop a true "Star Quarterback".

This year not withstanding, I think we are very damned close to being a truly dominant team.

Jrudi
11-29-2011, 10:59 AM
Would be even better to have a 3-way tie of last place with the Bolts, Raiders, and Broncos haha and of course that leaves us with a division championship...

(We could dream couldn't we haha)

chief31
11-29-2011, 08:04 PM
Wouldn't we be better off dumping one of them and spending the cash on the O-line?

Cash?

Draft picks.

We have three young guys who can be stalwarts for years to come. All we need there is a LOT to get Albert into a position that better fits his abilities, and the O-line can grow together and become a dominant force.

You just aren't going to find a real LOT in free agency. You are going to find ROTs trying to get a LOT payday, and high-risk, injury-prone LOTs.

The same way so many people want a stud QB, I want a stud LOT.

I want Albert at LG, Hudson at C, and Asamoah at RG and Khalil at LOT.

Then we can go buy a ROT. Good ROTs are actually allowed to hit the free agent market.

ctchiefsfan
11-29-2011, 09:27 PM
Whether through FA or the draft, I'd like to see out o-line get considerably better. And while I prefer to build through the draft, I think we are close enough and have enough cap room that I think we should consider being seriously active in FA next year.

figcrostic
11-29-2011, 10:43 PM
Cash?

Draft picks.

We have three young guys who can be stalwarts for years to come. All we need there is a LOT to get Albert into a position that better fits his abilities, and the O-line can grow together and become a dominant force.

You just aren't going to find a real LOT in free agency. You are going to find ROTs trying to get a LOT payday, and high-risk, injury-prone LOTs.

The same way so many people want a stud QB, I want a stud LOT.

I want Albert at LG, Hudson at C, and Asamoah at RG and Khalil at LOT.

Then we can go buy a ROT. Good ROTs are actually allowed to hit the free agent market.

I've been saying this for the last 3 years Albert is a probowl waiting to happen at LG and an average LT

OPLookn
11-30-2011, 12:12 PM
Cash?

Draft picks.

We have three young guys who can be stalwarts for years to come. All we need there is a LOT to get Albert into a position that better fits his abilities, and the O-line can grow together and become a dominant force.

You just aren't going to find a real LOT in free agency. You are going to find ROTs trying to get a LOT payday, and high-risk, injury-prone LOTs.

The same way so many people want a stud QB, I want a stud LOT.

I want Albert at LG, Hudson at C, and Asamoah at RG and Khalil at LOT.

Then we can go buy a ROT. Good ROTs are actually allowed to hit the free agent market.

Unfortunately I don't see Pioli and company giving up what needs to be given up to trade up and draft Khalil. Past Khalil the only other LOT that I see is worth anything is Jonathan Martin from Standford. He'll probably be right there for us (or a small trade up) depending on where we pick as he's predicted (right now) as a top 10 pick. Past that I see RT's, tackles that probably should be guards and then it's down into the 3rd round and later.

Not saying a stud tackle can't be found there it's just that it's well out of starting LT in the first round range. I wouldn't be upset with either Khalil or Martin but past that I'd be tempted to trade down or get one of those QB's that'll be floating around like Jones from Oklahoma or RG3 like everyone seems to want.

70 chiefsfan70
11-30-2011, 12:49 PM
Cash?

Draft picks.

We have three young guys who can be stalwarts for years to come. All we need there is a LOT to get Albert into a position that better fits his abilities, and the O-line can grow together and become a dominant force.

You just aren't going to find a real LOT in free agency. You are going to find ROTs trying to get a LOT payday, and high-risk, injury-prone LOTs.

The same way so many people want a stud QB, I want a stud LOT.

I want Albert at LG, Hudson at C, and Asamoah at RG and Khalil at LOT.

Then we can go buy a ROT. Good ROTs are actually allowed to hit the free agent market.


I think every one here would like to see Khalil,including me. But what would we have to give up, I 'm thinking we will be drafting from 7 to 10. To insure that we get him we would have to give up our first and probably a second and 3rd. If it takes that we would have to trade either Cassel or Orton if we sign orton in order to be able to give that much.Assuming we could get a second for the lesser of the two. I think Khalil would be a very safe pick even if we had to take him at number 1.

Jrudi
11-30-2011, 12:50 PM
Unfortunately I don't see Pioli and company giving up what needs to be given up to trade up and draft Khalil. Past Khalil the only other LOT that I see is worth anything is Jonathan Martin from Standford. He'll probably be right there for us (or a small trade up) depending on where we pick as he's predicted (right now) as a top 10 pick. Past that I see RT's, tackles that probably should be guards and then it's down into the 3rd round and later.

Not saying a stud tackle can't be found there it's just that it's well out of starting LT in the first round range. I wouldn't be upset with either Khalil or Martin but past that I'd be tempted to trade down or get one of those QB's that'll be floating around like Jones from Oklahoma or RG3 like everyone seems to want.

I've been leaning more towards RG3 myself as well, but did want to mention Riely Reiff form Iowa (Pioli has the relationship with Frentz, and could be a possibility).

He is I think the 3rd rated OT, and is projected as a LOT (has been mentioned that he is more of a sure LOT than Bullagga from GB was, which Bullagga is a ROT now)

chief31
11-30-2011, 01:13 PM
I think every one here would like to see Khalil,including me. But what would we have to give up, I 'm thinking we will be drafting from 7 to 10. To insure that we get him we would have to give up our first and probably a second and 3rd. If it takes that we would have to trade either Cassel or Orton if we sign orton in order to be able to give that much.Assuming we could get a second for the lesser of the two. I think Khalil would be a very safe pick even if we had to take him at number 1.

Yes. I realize that it is a long shot to think we would ever trade up in the first.

But that is what I would be looking to do.

70 chiefsfan70
11-30-2011, 01:22 PM
Yes. I realize that it is a long shot to think we would ever trade up in the first.

But that is what I would be looking to do.


I think the Colts are making sure they get the first pick. They could go after Khalil as well as Luck. It would make sense either way as even when manning gets back, he will need more protection then ever. I think every team that drafts before us will have a need for Khalil.

OPLookn
11-30-2011, 01:33 PM
I've been leaning more towards RG3 myself as well, but did want to mention Riely Reiff form Iowa (Pioli has the relationship with Frentz, and could be a possibility).

He is I think the 3rd rated OT, and is projected as a LOT (has been mentioned that he is more of a sure LOT than Bullagga from GB was, which Bullagga is a ROT now)

Everything I've seen thus far has Reiff moving to ROT and starting there. I can't say I've seen anything mentioning him as a LOT but I'd sure be happy if he can play LOT better than Albert. Any upgrade is always good regardless of how you fall into it.

:bananen_smilies046:

Jrudi
11-30-2011, 01:39 PM
Everything I've seen thus far has Reiff moving to ROT and starting there. I can't say I've seen anything mentioning him as a LOT but I'd sure be happy if he can play LOT better than Albert. Any upgrade is always good regardless of how you fall into it.

:bananen_smilies046:

This is what I saw on CBS Sports.com (just a paragraph taken out of his scouting report)

"Unlike Bulaga, however, there is little doubt that Reiff can play left tackle at the next level. He does have to improve his hand placement and lower-body strength to handle NFL-caliber defenders, but given his athleticism, tenacity in the run game, and relative youth, teams will have no problems projecting him as a solid first round prospect with considerable upside."

Like I said, just what I read on a scouting report. I by no means consider myself a scout haha.

azchiefsfan
11-30-2011, 01:40 PM
If Orton comes in and puts points on the board and gets this offense moving consistently, then I say he has to be our starter until he shows he can no longer handle it. If he does well enough this year to earn the starting position, then we would have to trade Cassel to get out of the $12 million a year he is costing and develop Stanzi for a back up. After 2 games I don't think Palko is going to be a legitimate back up. He could still prove me wrong, but he has done far worse than Cassel. Even for Cassel haters, you have to admit Cassel is as safe with the ball as anyone can be with this OL.

Jrudi
11-30-2011, 01:42 PM
Also another little piece of info on Rieff that Pioli will like...

He has started games at LOT, ROT, and LG (Having most of his starts coming at LOT. LG and RT were previous seasons due to injuries)

FLEXABILITY, which he likes may see us likely watching Reiff in red next season.

OPLookn
11-30-2011, 01:54 PM
If Orton comes in and puts points on the board and gets this offense moving consistently, then I say he has to be our starter until he shows he can no longer handle it. If he does well enough this year to earn the starting position, then we would have to trade Cassel to get out of the $12 million a year he is costing and develop Stanzi for a back up. After 2 games I don't think Palko is going to be a legitimate back up. He could still prove me wrong, but he has done far worse than Cassel. Even for Cassel haters, you have to admit Cassel is as safe with the ball as anyone can be with this OL.

The good news is that it won't cost us $12 million a year to dump Cassel. His contract was insanely front loaded and next year his salary is $5.25 million with what I'd imagine has $2 million in bonuses or incentives.

At $12 million it'd almost be insane to dump him, for $5.25 if Orton is showing something then yeah buh bye Cassel. Palko isn't a backup on any team in the NFL and he's shown that. I knew that as soon as they declared Palko the starter. I went up to training camp a few times over the years and have watched him when he's been in the game. He's inaccurate with a weak arm and makes bad decisions. Quite honestly I don't even know how he's in the league. So saying that Cassel is better with the ball is like comparing a starting high school QB to a college QB.

Both have shown what we have and what the other lacks. I think because of this that I wouldn't be shocked if we see a QB selected in the first round. I'm hoping its an O-lineman like Martin out of Stanford.