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View Full Version : I'm predicting 5-11 what are the consequences



figcrostic
12-03-2011, 01:51 PM
I see us losing badly to Chicago, and Green Bay, losing a close game to Jets. We could either beat the Donkeys or lose and I think we will beat the raiders. If we finish 5-11 what do you see happening? I'm guessing we will finish top 8 of the draft, once again we'll get a new offensive coordinator once again, I see Haley and Crennel staying around, if Orton does very well we might get rid of Cassel do to his high salary if he doesn't do so well he'll be our back up, Palko is gone, hopefully we pick up a stud LT and put Albert's where he belongs at LG, if Charles comes doesn't come back healthy I see us drafting a RB who knows we might draft one anyway and get rid of Jones he's too old and he has more 2 yard plays then 5 yards. What do you guys see happening?

azchiefsfan
12-03-2011, 02:34 PM
If Haley stays, I think we'll get some line help on defense and offense through the draft, but they won't pay off until season 2. I see us improving, but realistically in the 8-8 to 9-6 range, moving up to the top of the AFC West. If Haley is not around, probably 4-12 or 5-11 and rebuilding a new system. I really think Pioli and Haley are not on the same page and Haley is on the bubble. If he can pull a couple more wins, he'll be here next year. If the season folds and we have 1 or less wins from here out, he'll be shown the door.

chief31
12-03-2011, 04:32 PM
I see Orton battling for Cassel's job, with a front office sabotaging our potential for 2012 by taking a QB in the first round. And I see Cassel, Bowe, and Charles heading for another Pro-Bowl together, after we win our first playoff game in far too long.

I see this team improving more than any other between now and a year from now. Only with a complete legitimate improvement, with no more voices about "they can't win against a good team".

Had it not been for all the injuries, I would have expected to be able to compete with The NFL's best by the end of 2011.

But, seeing what happened, I fully expect to be a very serious contender in 2012.

But then, you all know me, Mr. Rose-colored glasses... :lol:

okikcfan
12-03-2011, 08:41 PM
[quote=chief31;244583]I see Orton battling for Cassel's job, with a front office sabotaging our potential for 2012 by taking a QB in the first round. And I see Cassel, Bowe, and Charles heading for another Pro-Bowl together, after we win our first playoff game in far too long.

I see this team improving more than any other between now and a year from now. Only with a complete legitimate improvement, with no more voices about "they can't win against a good team".

Had it not been for all the injuries, I would have expected to be able to compete with The NFL's best by the end of 2011.

But, seeing what happened, I fully expect to be a very serious contender in 2012.

But then, you all know me, Mr. Rose-colored glasses... :lol:[/quote

Well I have to agree for the most part. Had we not had all the injuries would we have been able to compete with the NFL's best. I just don't think we would have been there yet. But I do see and look forward to GREAT improvements in the draft and the offseason. First round QB? I don't think so but I could be wrong. For me the interesting part will be the battle of the QB's if Orton does well and they keep him, Matt will have a good fight on his hands. I think they like Stanzi and if so they need to start working him or trade him, cut Palko and Jackson.

:chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs: :chiefs:

Three7s
12-04-2011, 01:19 AM
I see Orton battling for Cassel's job, with a front office sabotaging our potential for 2012 by taking a QB in the first round. And I see Cassel, Bowe, and Charles heading for another Pro-Bowl together, after we win our first playoff game in far too long.

I see this team improving more than any other between now and a year from now. Only with a complete legitimate improvement, with no more voices about "they can't win against a good team".

Had it not been for all the injuries, I would have expected to be able to compete with The NFL's best by the end of 2011.

But, seeing what happened, I fully expect to be a very serious contender in 2012.

But then, you all know me, Mr. Rose-colored glasses... :lol:
Sabotaging our potential? This franchise hasn't drafted a QB in the first round since before I was even born. The Chiefs have nothing to lose because there is no way they're getting anywhere with Orton or Cassel, despite what many might think. Barkley or RGIII would be fine with me.

chief31
12-04-2011, 01:32 AM
Sabotaging our potential? This franchise hasn't drafted a QB in the first round since before I was even born. The Chiefs have nothing to lose because there is no way they're getting anywhere with Orton or Cassel, despite what many might think. Barkley or RGIII would be fine with me.

So, if there is no chance to do anything without a first round QB, then you either don't like The Chiefs, or don't like yourself, since they have never bothered to go get that QB, right?

Believe it, or not, a first round QB is not the be-all, end-all of The Super Bowl.

So sayeth the Tom Brady... So sayeth the Joe Montana.:lol:

Coach
12-04-2011, 11:37 AM
I see us losing badly to Chicago, and Green Bay, losing a close game to Jets. We could either beat the Donkeys or lose and I think we will beat the raiders. If we finish 5-11 what do you see happening? I'm guessing we will finish top 8 of the draft, once again we'll get a new offensive coordinator once again, I see Haley and Crennel staying around, if Orton does very well we might get rid of Cassel do to his high salary if he doesn't do so well he'll be our back up, Palko is gone, hopefully we pick up a stud LT and put Albert's where he belongs at LG, if Charles comes doesn't come back healthy I see us drafting a RB who knows we might draft one anyway and get rid of Jones he's too old and he has more 2 yard plays then 5 yards. What do you guys see happening?

I think you pretty much nailed it. I'd say 75% chance that Cassel stays around for next year. I'd like the chiefs keep Orton either way. I think Haley stils around for one more year. Hopefully Haley doesn't make Romeo the fall guy. I am very confident that if the chiefs didn't lose Cassel, Moeaki, an jamaal Charles for the season that the Chiefs would be in first place right now. Biggest need right now in my opinion is offensive line. We could get a really good tackle in the 5-10 draft position that I expect we will have. My vote for first round pick is taking an OT to either replace Albert or play RT but eventually replace Albert. I like our young offensive lineman. I think Lilja has seen better days.

Our biggest need on defense is ilb, cb, safety.

kcvet
12-04-2011, 11:54 AM
we need a quality TE in worst possible way. they knew Moeaki was injury prone when they got him. should have had a good back up

Three7s
12-04-2011, 12:27 PM
So, if there is no chance to do anything without a first round QB, then you either don't like The Chiefs, or don't like yourself, since they have never bothered to go get that QB, right?

Believe it, or not, a first round QB is not the be-all, end-all of The Super Bowl.

So sayeth the Tom Brady... So sayeth the Joe Montana.:lol:
I'm sorry, I forgot about all that success the Chiefs have had over the past 30 years. You know, with the 0 super bowls, and numerous playoff losses, silly me! Meanwhile teams that actually have a decent QB that they developed like the Packers, Steelers, Falcons, Colts continue to churn out divisions and multiple playoff appearances, as well as super bowls.

I know it's common knowledge for Chiefs fans to not care about drafting a QB because we haven't even done it in my lifetime, but I'm tired of picking up trash from another team and calling that a starting QB. The only time that works is if a team is retarded enough to give a franchise QB away. i.e Chargers giving Brees to Saints.

Bike
12-04-2011, 02:00 PM
I'm sorry, I forgot about all that success the Chiefs have had over the past 30 years. You know, with the 0 super bowls, and numerous playoff losses, silly me! Meanwhile teams that actually have a decent QB that they developed like the Packers, Steelers, Falcons, Colts continue to churn out divisions and multiple playoff appearances, as well as super bowls.

I know it's common knowledge for Chiefs fans to not care about drafting a QB because we haven't even done it in my lifetime, but I'm tired of picking up trash from another team and calling that a starting QB. The only time that works is if a team is retarded enough to give a franchise QB away. i.e Chargers giving Brees to Saints.
REP...

chief31
12-04-2011, 03:44 PM
I'm sorry, I forgot about all that success the Chiefs have had over the past 30 years. You know, with the 0 super bowls, and numerous playoff losses, silly me! Meanwhile teams that actually have a decent QB that they developed like the Packers, Steelers, Falcons, Colts continue to churn out divisions and multiple playoff appearances, as well as super bowls.

I know it's common knowledge for Chiefs fans to not care about drafting a QB because we haven't even done it in my lifetime, but I'm tired of picking up trash from another team and calling that a starting QB. The only time that works is if a team is retarded enough to give a franchise QB away. i.e Chargers giving Brees to Saints.

You do mean the second round pick, Drew Brees, right?

But again.... Tell your story to Tom Brady, and Joe Montana.

The Chiefs didn't win a Super Bowl in that 30 years. But several team have won it all without a first round QB.

I am not against having a first round QB. I am just not willing to act like nothing can be done without one.

jap1
12-04-2011, 03:56 PM
I'm sorry, I forgot about all that success the Chiefs have had over the past 30 years. You know, with the 0 super bowls, and numerous playoff losses, silly me! Meanwhile teams that actually have a decent QB that they developed like the Packers, Steelers, Falcons, Colts continue to churn out divisions and multiple playoff appearances, as well as super bowls.

I know it's common knowledge for Chiefs fans to not care about drafting a QB because we haven't even done it in my lifetime, but I'm tired of picking up trash from another team and calling that a starting QB. The only time that works is if a team is retarded enough to give a franchise QB away. i.e Chargers giving Brees to Saints.

I defintely agree with this sentiment, and would love to see a perennial all-star QB that can put the game on his shoulders. Can Matt Cassel be that, probably not.

But I think our OL is far below average, and Cassel is at or slightly above average when he has protection. I truly feel that if we are picking in the top 10, that there will be a great LOT available that could probably start right away and allow us to move Albert to a position where he would probably be a perennial all-star (Either LG or RT).

I would love for us to draft a QB this year and develop him for 2-3 years behind Cassel (maybe Stanzi is that prospect) but I dont think we will see any significant benefit from a different (especially a rookie) QB next season. And by drafting a QB we are giving up a chance to improve our OL significantly.

jap1
12-04-2011, 05:55 PM
The way our defense played today, I think we have a chance to beat the Jets, Donks, and Faiders. Id be pleasantly surprised if we beat the Packers. I doubt we would be able to hold Aaron Rodgers to 3 points.

If we had a real QB (either Cassel or Orton) I think we would win the 3 games I mentioned above and actually be competing for the AFC West. With Palko (I doubt if Orton is able to play this season) I dont know what our chances will be.

We could easily end up anywhere from 5-11 or 8-8.

Good news is that our D looks pretty solid, especially when Berry is back next year. We could use a great NT, but we could live without it.

We need help on offense. Some say we need a QB. I think we need to upgrade the OL. The only way I would be on board with a QB in the first round is if we were able to trade Matt Cassel away for a 1st round draft pick.

matthewschiefs
12-04-2011, 05:56 PM
I still think that this team can win 8 games. I think we can beat the jets. There qb play is weak just like we saw today. We can also beat the faiders and Donkeys.

What I would like to see is this
1 NEW head coach Haley just isn't getting the job done. It's more then this team loseing without there best teams it's that they have not shown up in games far to often As i have stated a number of times. I know that it's not likely to happen but I would still like to see it.

2. OL BIG UPGRADES needed.

3. BIG time pass rusher. We have a few guys that are able to get to the QB. I really like what I have seen out of Houston this season. But anther big time pass rusher would help Hali and the D in genral.

4. QB solved for the long term. I don't care who it is I just want a guy who we can feel good about brought in to be the QBOTF. I don't think that he is currently on the roster if we are not even going to give Stanzi a shot. But hopefully we get this figured out.

Three7s
12-04-2011, 06:15 PM
I still think that this team can win 8 games. I think we can beat the jets. There qb play is weak just like we saw today. We can also beat the faiders and Donkeys.

What I would like to see is this
1 NEW head coach Haley just isn't getting the job done. It's more then this team loseing without there best teams it's that they have not shown up in games far to often As i have stated a number of times. I know that it's not likely to happen but I would still like to see it.

2. OL BIG UPGRADES needed.

3. BIG time pass rusher. We have a few guys that are able to get to the QB. I really like what I have seen out of Houston this season. But anther big time pass rusher would help Hali and the D in genral.

4. QB solved for the long term. I don't care who it is I just want a guy who we can feel good about brought in to be the QBOTF. I don't think that he is currently on the roster if we are not even going to give Stanzi a shot. But hopefully we get this figured out.
In the 3-4, most of the constant pass rush is generated by blitzes from the OLBs. If you're looking for another pass rusher, then that means Houston has failed in your eyes. The only way the Chiefs are getting more pass rush is from the interior line.

I know we need a RT, as well as one, if not, two guards. I wouldn't mind a new HC, but if the Chiefs actually do win 8, then I'll be pretty impressed with how he hasn't let the team go off a cliff.

Chiefster
12-04-2011, 06:34 PM
We may well go 5-11, but it's not because we lose badly to the Bears. :D

jap1
12-04-2011, 07:05 PM
In the 3-4, most of the constant pass rush is generated by blitzes from the OLBs.

ILBs are also used a lot in the 3-4. Thats the advantage of the system. The offense never really knows where the blitz is coming from (especially when you get someone like Berry back who we would blitz quite often). Thats why DJ often gets in the face of the QB

We need another strong ILB that has the ability to give an occasional inside blitz. Maybe Brandon Siler can fill that role when he is healthy next year, but I honestly dont know much about him since this was his first year with the Chiefs.

matthewschiefs
12-04-2011, 07:43 PM
In the 3-4, most of the constant pass rush is generated by blitzes from the OLBs. If you're looking for another pass rusher, then that means Houston has failed in your eyes. The only way the Chiefs are getting more pass rush is from the interior line.

I know we need a RT, as well as one, if not, two guards. I wouldn't mind a new HC, but if the Chiefs actually do win 8, then I'll be pretty impressed with how he hasn't let the team go off a cliff.


I am Really happy with what I have seen from Houston so far. I wouldn't say that any rookie has failed yet. But one can never have to much of a pass rush.

figcrostic
12-04-2011, 09:28 PM
We may well go 5-11, but it's not because we lose badly to the Bears. :D

Hindsight changes a lot

azchiefsfan
12-05-2011, 11:54 AM
Something I've been thinking about the last few weeks and almost been afraid to mention, ACL surgery has about a 30% chance of success. For every Tom Brady, you have 4 or 5 William (Bar None) Floyd's. There is no guarantee that Moeaki, Charles or Berry will make a 100% or even 50% recovery. I am hoping and praying (for them more than even our Chiefs) that they all 3 come back close to normal. But if they all make the odds, 2 of them are done and only one will make it back to game shape. I am actually becoming a little more nervous about next year. I hope those three guys can beat the odds, but it is very unlikely.

Jrudi
12-05-2011, 02:43 PM
looking like it could possibly be a 7-9 or 8-8 season now.


L- Green Bay (just too good)

I could see us gettin 3 wins out of the Jets (not playing very well and is a winnable game), Raiders, and Broncos but to be realistic I would say 2.

So 7-9 is likely

jap1
12-05-2011, 07:00 PM
Something I've been thinking about the last few weeks and almost been afraid to mention, ACL surgery has about a 30% chance of success. For every Tom Brady, you have 4 or 5 William (Bar None) Floyd's. There is no guarantee that Moeaki, Charles or Berry will make a 100% or even 50% recovery. I am hoping and praying (for them more than even our Chiefs) that they all 3 come back close to normal. But if they all make the odds, 2 of them are done and only one will make it back to game shape. I am actually becoming a little more nervous about next year. I hope those three guys can beat the odds, but it is very unlikely.

As a doctor, I think the statistic of 30% chance for success (I assume you mean success as being able to play at the same level again) is low. Those statistics may have been correct 5 or 10 years ago, but the rehab protocols are a lot better now. I would say it is closer to 60%, but I dont know any actual statistics on professional level athletes. I think Moeaki and Berry have the best chance to come back fully, based on the positions they play and what it requires. Charles is going to have the hardest time getting back to what he was last year because of how much stress cutting puts on your ACL.

Also, a lot of those failures probably also had other things wrong than their ACL (meniscus tears and MCL tears commonly occur with ACL tears). A bad meniscus (which can rarely ever be repaired, usually just cleaned up) can really limit what an athlete can do as far as putting a lot of force on their knees.

Here's to hoping for 3 great recoveries.

azchiefsfan
12-05-2011, 07:50 PM
I know the surgical repair rate is 85-90%, but when looking at returning full(or near full) capability is low. Jerry Rice came back, but even he admits he was playing at only 50% or so level. Most professional athletes struggle and quit after 2-3 years. I think because these guys are young, they'll probably have a better chance than many older veterans who have sustained a lot more physical abuse. I hope all 3 come back strong, but I think about Bar None and Rice and I get concerned.