Defend Haley now

[matthewschiefs]

I don't want to hear the injury BS. That's just an excuse. Injuries do keep you from winning they DON'T KEEP YOU FROM COMPETING. Just look at Houston. How many qbs have they been through. Are they getting blown out over and over like this team? THIS TEAM IS NOT COMPETEING.

Haley Keeps throw a QB that has PROVEN he can't do anything out there. Haley is not DOING HIS JOB putting this team in the best spot to win. HALEY NEEDS TO GO.

[drstandley31]

Every aspect of this game was awful (except the punter. wonderful). Open with a 80 yard drive that ends in a bootleg jog into the endzone. Did I see 4 yards in the first half? 68 yard of offense and 81 yards in penaltys in 3 quarters. Took till the 4th quarter to figure out that the jets were throwing screen passes on the biltz. Total meltdown in every aspect. Just awful.

[matthewschiefs]

Every aspect of this game was awful (except the punter. wonderful). Open with a 80 yard drive that ends in a bootleg jog into the endzone. Did I see 4 yards in the first half? 68 yard of offense and 81 yards in penaltys in 3 quarters. Took till the 4th quarter to figure out that the jets were throwing screen passes on the biltz. Total meltdown in every aspect. Just awful.

And it's not just this week Buffalo (when we had charles) Detroit, Miami, New England.

[70 chiefsfan70]

I don't want to hear the injury BS. That's just an excuse. Injuries do keep you from winning they DON'T KEEP YOU FROM COMPETING. Just look at Houston. How many qbs have they been through. Are they getting blown out over and over like this team? THIS TEAM IS NOT COMPETEING.

Haley Keeps throw a QB that has PROVEN he can't do anything out there. Haley is not DOING HIS JOB putting this team in the best spot to win. HALEY NEEDS TO GO.

I agree 100%. Haley got to go! I can't even imagine anyone defending him. Every team has injuries every year.
Haley as coach knows this as well as any other coach. Every team has the same opportunity to have a good team with depth! There is no excuse that fits this mess other then no leadership!

[chief31]

I'd still keep Haley.

Next week, I'll say the same thing.

Yes, it's injuries.

You don't want to hear it?

Too bad. They are still the primary reason.

Are those players back to playing yet?

Well then, it is just as applicable as it was before this week.

So some other team happened to make good with their back-ups.

That is the exception, not the rule. The rule is that you struggle when your starters are gone.

And when your offense was designed for one style of offense (running game) and you realize, in-season, that your running game was all because of the skill of one player, who is lost for the season, then you have a weak offense, and running with backups will make them look terrible.

I told you then, and, because you insist upon continuing to ask, I will tell you again....

I see the rest of this season as a learning experience.

That is not going to change because we lose, even if we lose badly.

[Vandelay]

I'd still keep Haley.

Next week, I'll say the same thing.

Yes, it's injuries.

You don't want to hear it?

Too bad. They are still the primary reason.

Are those players back to playing yet?

Well then, it is just as applicable as it was before this week.

So some other team happened to make good with their back-ups.

That is the exception, not the rule. The rule is that you struggle when your starters are gone.

And when your offense was designed for one style of offense (running game) and you realize, in-season, that your running game was all because of the skill of one player, who is lost for the season, then you have a weak offense, and running with backups will make them look terrible.

I told you then, and, because you insist upon continuing to ask, I will tell you again....

I see the rest of this season as a learning experience.

That is not going to change because we lose, even if we lose badly.


I could even accept that.
But Haley keeps running the worst qb in the league out the instead of getting Stanzi some reps.

The Packers won it all last year with tons of injuries.
If we had the same 5-8 record but had at least been in most our games, I would be ok with that, with all the injuries. But we have been blown out 5 times.

Theres not a coach in the NFL who would be safe with that outside of Bill Belicheck.

[Ryfo18]

I'd still keep Haley.

Next week, I'll say the same thing.

Yes, it's injuries.

You don't want to hear it?

Too bad. They are still the primary reason.

Are those players back to playing yet?

Well then, it is just as applicable as it was before this week.

So some other team happened to make good with their back-ups.

That is the exception, not the rule. The rule is that you struggle when your starters are gone.

And when your offense was designed for one style of offense (running game) and you realize, in-season, that your running game was all because of the skill of one player, who is lost for the season, then you have a weak offense, and running with backups will make them look terrible.

I told you then, and, because you insist upon continuing to ask, I will tell you again....

I see the rest of this season as a learning experience.

That is not going to change because we lose, even if we lose badly.



Look at the Texans...Decimated at quarterback (starting a rookie). Missing their top receiver in Andre Johnson...AFC South Champs.

Green Bay last year? I think something like 12 guys on IR. Super Bowl Champs.

If you can't even be remotely competitive (like today), are outplayed in every facet, and take stupid penalties (I've never seen another coach get a personal foul)...well something needs to be done. I don't know that firing Haley is necessarily the answer, but this team is awful.

Haley is an offensive mind...6 straight weeks they've failed to put up more than 10 points. That has to point directly to the coach. There are some horrible offenses in the NFL relying on backup quarterbacks right now...I don't see any other team struggling to put up points like the Chiefs have.

[texaschief]

There's no point in arguing this... the guy is gone... if not this upcoming week, then after the season. The problem that I see with firing Haley, is that he's better, IMO, than the guy who's rumored to replace him.

[Chiefs fanatic]

The fact that we made the playoffs last year and were decimated by injuries this year should buy Haley another year in my mind but I'm not sure he'll get one.

[chief31]

I could even accept that.
But Haley keeps running the worst qb in the league out the instead of getting Stanzi some reps.

The Packers won it all last year with tons of injuries.
If we had the same 5-8 record but had at least been in most our games, I would be ok with that, with all the injuries. But we have been blown out 5 times.

Theres not a coach in the NFL who would be safe with that outside of Bill Belicheck.

That's what happens when you get into a season expecting a certain kind of offense, and discovering you have nothing of the sort, and are relying on far lesser backups.


Look at the Texans...Decimated at quarterback (starting a rookie). Missing their top receiver in Andre Johnson...AFC South Champs.

As I said in the statement you quoted...

That is the exception, not the rule.

And we are at the far opposite end because we were expecting a strong running game (mistake) and discovered that that was not the case.

The offense is in a full-on, short-term, mid-season "rebuild", and then they got a surprise by having a loss of QB in the process.

Being surprised by a bad offense, with all of those circumstances, suggests a disconnect from reality.

And, when your defense has a bad game, to go along with that kind of offense, a blow-out is the probable result.

So many of us seem to be surprised by the obvious.

[chief31]

There's no point in arguing this... the guy is gone... if not this upcoming week, then after the season. The problem that I see with firing Haley, is that he's better, IMO, than the guy who's rumored to replace him.

Haley has this team, without most of it's talent, with five wins, where Herm had two wins.

And you never stopped believing in Herm.

But you were out for Haley's blood from the day he was hired.

My question is, are you aware of the severity of your bias in this matter? Or do you feel like you are giving an objective opinion?

[Ryfo18]

I'd question why you want a run-first offense in the first place...The NFL is a pass happy league, and teams that are good at it are consistently contending year in and year out. It's almost like the Chiefs have shown no desire to be that, and thus we see why this team can't compete against better teams and have been blown out 5 times.

No team in the league has run the ball more when trailing...Does that sound like they're even trying to win? Hand the ball off to Thomas Jones for 2.8 yards a carry...Really making it hard on opposing defenses.

[Hayvern]

That's what happens when you get into a season expecting a certain kind of offense, and discovering you have nothing of the sort, and are relying on far lesser backups.



As I said in the statement you quoted...

That is the exception, not the rule.

And we are at the far opposite end because we were expecting a strong running game (mistake) and discovered that that was not the case.

The offense is in a full-on, short-term, mid-season "rebuild", and then they got a surprise by having a loss of QB in the process.

Being surprised by a bad offense, with all of those circumstances, suggests a disconnect from reality.

And, when your defense has a bad game, to go along with that kind of offense, a blow-out is the probable result.

So many of us seem to be surprised by the obvious.

Chief31, you and I agree on a lot of things football, but in this instance, I cannot agree with you. We are missing some key elements, but at the same time we have been able to play better some weeks than others. This is preperation, which falls back on the coach. Injuries hurt, but they do cause endings like this.

Haley needs to go, that is just how it is. We are going to have another weekend like this next weekend too when Green Bay comes to town, that is a given, but if we end up getting the same kind of beating with the Raiders and Broncos, Haley will be done.

[chief31]

I'd question why you want a run-first offense in the first place...The NFL is a pass happy league, and teams that are good at it are consistently contending year in and year out. It's almost like the Chiefs have shown no desire to be that, and thus we see why this team can't compete against better teams and have been blown out 5 times.

No team in the league has run the ball more when trailing...Does that sound like they're even trying to win? Hand the ball off to Thomas Jones for 2.8 yards a carry...Really making it hard on opposing defenses.

I agree with your overall thought here.

I think Haley was fooled into believing that our run offense was strong, when, in fact, it was weak, with Charles' particular abilities making it look strong.

We were the #1 rushing team in The NFL in 2010. But we were completely unable to run the ball with power, and Charles' success, in spite of the poor offense, was far from consistent.

But, when you look back on your season, and you see that your team went from 4-12, to 10-6, with the #1 running game in The NFL, it can be difficult to see the forest, for so many trees.

I think it was a very big mistake. But it was one mistake, which gets amplified by the injury to Charles.

But I think the lesson has been learned, and this offseason will offer us a chance to take some very big steps toward fixing that problem, and we should get Charles back, to run with that lesson learned.

As for running while trailing....

I can't really argue much.

But my thinking is that they are trying to keep the pass-rush from putting too much pressure on our QBs.

It's not really helping. But that would be what I expect the thinking is.

[ctchiefsfan]

I've been defending Haley all along. And I still think he can be a great coach. But for the life of me I can't figure out why he won't put Stanzi in.

If Stanzi is so bad that we won't pull Palko in the middle of this kind of beatdown, then what the hell is he doing wearing a Chiefs uniform and collecting a Chiefs paycheck?

I simply can't understand why we haven't given the kid a shot in the face of Palko's complete futility.

[chief31]

Chief31, you and I agree on a lot of things football, but in this instance, I cannot agree with you. We are missing some key elements, but at the same time we have been able to play better some weeks than others. This is preperation, which falls back on the coach. Injuries hurt, but they do cause endings like this.

We have only been competitive when the defense has played incredibly well.

When the defense has a lesser game, we get hammered.

Building a whole new offense, mid-season, and then having your QB situation explode, is going to put a team into that kind of situation.

I just don't see anything that should be coming as a surprise here.


Haley needs to go, that is just how it is. We are going to have another weekend like this next weekend too when Green Bay comes to town, that is a given, but if we end up getting the same kind of beating with the Raiders and Broncos, Haley will be done.

Can't wait to start all over again.

2011 was a wash, almost from the first game.

We managed to win some games, in spite of the circumstances, and that, along with a 10-6 record last season, has kept a lot of fans' expectations far higher than I think they should have been.

I expected a tough season, even with the starters on the field.

Take away our "Peyton Manning" and several other star players, and I just couldn't imagine how we would expect much better than what we have.

[azchiefsfan]

As I've said numerous times, if he gets to 6 wins, he'll be back. If he can only get these 5, he's gone. I am completely on the fence about him now. I think he deserves to be fired for the way this team plays, but I think he has some serious upside that may get us over the hump. I think about it this way: If we didn't have these key injuries, would we be winning more games? Answer: obviously yes. However: Can a good coach still find a way to win despite key injuries? Answer: obviously yes. So when I weigh each of those questions, I am torn 51% for him to go and 49% for him to stay.

[chief31]

I've been defending Haley all along. And I still think he can be a great coach. But for the life of me I can't figure out why he won't put Stanzi in.

If Stanzi is so bad that we won't pull Palko in the middle of this kind of beatdown, then what the hell is he doing wearing a Chiefs uniform and collecting a Chiefs paycheck?

I simply can't understand why we haven't given the kid a shot in the face of Palko's complete futility.

I'm not sure on this either.

I am a guy who will take into account the circumstances going against ya.

But this has gone too far for even me.

I fully expected to see Stanzi, each time we brought the offense back onto the field.

But I can't say rather Stanzi has some serious problems, or they see something far better from Palko in practices, or what....

[matthewschiefs]

I'd still keep Haley.

Next week, I'll say the same thing.

Yes, it's injuries.

You don't want to hear it?

Too bad. They are still the primary reason.

Are those players back to playing yet?

Well then, it is just as applicable as it was before this week.

So some other team happened to make good with their back-ups.

That is the exception, not the rule. The rule is that you struggle when your starters are gone.

And when your offense was designed for one style of offense (running game) and you realize, in-season, that your running game was all because of the skill of one player, who is lost for the season, then you have a weak offense, and running with backups will make them look terrible.

I told you then, and, because you insist upon continuing to ask, I will tell you again....

I see the rest of this season as a learning experience.

That is not going to change because we lose, even if we lose badly.



So what about Buffalo? injuries? Can't blame that one on injuries. Detroit lost Charles in that game but do you REALLY THINK Charles alone is worth 45 points?

Strange Miami who once again WAS WINLESS WITHOUT THERE STARTING QB came into Arrowhead and won 31-3 WHEN WE HAD OUR STARTING QB.

This team IS NOT I REPEATE IS NOT JUST LOSEING. THEY ARE NON COMPETIVE. They look more and more like a Herm Edwards team each time.

Why are we loseing? The offense. Isn't that supose to be the part of the game our coach is best at? Why do we win when we win The D. What othe coach do you no who keep throwing a QB that looks like Palko out there. I don't think there are many. I spent the whole offseason defending Haley. Hes proven me wrong. While I won't discredit what he did last year. This year HALEY SHOULD BE FIRED.

And one more point Herm Edwards lost his starting qb every year so under this injuries are causeing this shouldn't we have kept him? Do you really think that would have been a good idea. He had injuries so he deserved to stay?

[ctchiefsfan]

As I have said before, I am more than willing to cut Haley a lot of slack because of the strike and injuries.

But this refusal to put Stanzi in when Palko is so clearly stinking up the joint really bothers me.

In short, it is making me doubt Haley's judgement.

I'm not ready to call for his head yet, but after todays disaster I am a whole lot closer than I was this morning.

[chief31]

So what about Buffalo? injuries? Can't blame that one on injuries. Detroit lost Charles in that game but do you REALLY THINK Charles alone is worth 45 points?

Overconfidence, just like you had, the fact that is was at the start of the season, which always has unusual results, and the unusual circumstances of the shortened preseason.

I thought we got past this a couple of months ago. Have those games changed, or something?


Strange Miami who once again WAS WINLESS WITHOUT THERE STARTING QB came into Arrowhead and won 31-3 WHEN WE HAD OUR STARTING QB.

This team IS NOT I REPEATE IS NOT JUST LOSEING. THEY ARE NON COMPETIVE. They look more and more like a Herm Edwards team each time.

Why are we loseing? The offense. Isn't that supose to be the part of the game our coach is best at? Why do we win when we win The D. What othe coach do you no who keep throwing a QB that looks like Palko out there. I don't think there are many. I spent the whole offseason defending Haley. Hes proven me wrong. While I won't discredit what he did last year. This year HALEY SHOULD BE FIRED.

And one more point Herm Edwards lost his starting qb every year so under this injuries are causeing this shouldn't we have kept him? Do you really think that would have been a good idea. He had injuries so he deserved to stay?

The offense was (mistakenly) designed around the #1 running game in the league.

As it turns out, that running game was a bit of a mirage.

So we are stuck, in season, with an offense that is in bad shape with Charles gone.

So, we have to run with a poor running game, and pass-protection that was supposed to aided by the threat of a running game, and which was supposed to be the lesser duty of our O-line.

Then, subtract your starting QB.

If you truly expect much out of that offense, then your expectations are too high.

And if you think the defense should be able to keep that offense in every game, again, your expectations are too high.

[hardcorechiefsfan]

Someone on here said that they got Palko because he was probably Haley's son I say Palko is probably Haley's love-child that he just found out about just before the chiefs were blessed with and Palko has been blackmailing Haley into letting him play.

In light of the chiefs' "great" season this year that I had to devulge my thoughts on this.

[KCraised]

Haley has this team, without most of it's talent, with five wins, where Herm had two wins.

And you never stopped believing in Herm.

But you were out for Haley's blood from the day he was hired.

My question is, are you aware of the severity of your bias in this matter? Or do you feel like you are giving an objective opinion?
Chief31, i have to say, you can find a positive in the most negative places. This team could go 0-100 and you would give us all hope.I am awarding you "Fan of the Millenium" and forwarding your resume to the Chiefs PR department....lol

[drstandley31]

Overconfidence, just like you had, the fact that is was at the start of the season, which always has unusual results, and the unusual circumstances of the shortened preseason.

I thought we got past this a couple of months ago. Have those games changed, or something?



The offense was (mistakenly) designed around the #1 running game in the league.

As it turns out, that running game was a bit of a mirage.

So we are stuck, in season, with an offense that is in bad shape with Charles gone.

So, we have to run with a poor running game, and pass-protection that was supposed to aided by the threat of a running game, and which was supposed to be the lesser duty of our O-line.

Then, subtract your starting QB.

If you truly expect much out of that offense, then your expectations are too high.

And if you think the defense should be able to keep that offense in every game, again, your expectations are too high.


I expect better! Zero reason why Plako would be anybody's backup. Period. He shouldn't even have a contract. So there's stike one. Strike two, why is our FB an OL starter? 25 million under the cap and we have no OL depth. Three; I did not see the adjustments that should have been made on the Defense during this game. They picked up our blitz package and used screen passes for huge yards. Want more, what the hell was with that first drive? not only let them walk down the field, but let the qb walk into the endzone. Total penalty meltdown in 3rd quarter. If there was a game plan they left in in KC. Disgusting effort. I can take losses, but not this way.
:beat_DeadHorse:

[chief31]

Basically, this team, even having lost it's most talented starters, and having had the offense discovered as being based on a false promise, STILL has more wins than in 2008, 2009 and 2010.

That is an impressive feat.

To improve this team, while losing so much talent, and to still have three more chances to win even more......

You want to fire the coach?

We have a very good defense. Not a miraculous defense... yet. But a very good one.

And the offense is better than it look. (Give us our starters back, and see.)

Plus, the offense will get a whole lot of serious attention during the offseason.

I look forward to seeing what we are capable in 2012.

I dread the thought of starting over again.

[azchiefsfan]

Mmmmm, that's a cup is 1/10 full way of looking at it. I look at it like we are a talented team now and despite key injuries should still be winning or at least competitive. I am not ready to abandon hope because of injuries, but that is what your logic is saying. I tend to agree with you 31, but I will part ways now that it's reached this absurd level by Haley and company. I wouldn't mind an 8-8 or even a 7-9 season, but this blowout stuff and run, run, pass, punt stuff is on Haley and there is no explaining or excusing it.

[ctchiefsfan]

Basically, this team, even having lost it's most talented starters, and having had the offense discovered as being based on a false promise, STILL has more wins than in 2008, 2009 and 2010.

Not to be a nitpicker, but we went 10-6 in 2010.

[N TX Dave]

As I have said before, I am more than willing to cut Haley a lot of slack because of the strike and injuries.

But this refusal to put Stanzi in when Palko is so clearly stinking up the joint really bothers me.

In short, it is making me doubt Haley's judgement.

I'm not ready to call for his head yet, but after todays disaster I am a whole lot closer than I was this morning.

Maybe the GM said do not play the rookie QB or the QB coach said he is not ready to play. I will admit I don't care who is holding him back at least get him in there for a drive or two in the second half just to see what he can do I mean we were not going to pull this game out in the second half it was over then.

[chief31]

Mmmmm, that's a cup is 1/10 full way of looking at it. I look at it like we are a talented team now and despite key injuries should still be winning or at least competitive. I am not ready to abandon hope because of injuries, but that is what your logic is saying. I tend to agree with you 31, but I will part ways now that it's reached this absurd level by Haley and company. I wouldn't mind an 8-8 or even a 7-9 season, but this blowout stuff and run, run, pass, punt stuff is on Haley and there is no explaining or excusing it.

Parting ways now?

Where were you at when I was expecting 5-11..... all season long? :lol:


Not to be a nitpicker, but we went 10-6 in 2010.

DOH!!!!

And I just posted that same mistake in another thread. :lol:

[Three7s]

Chief31, i have to say, you can find a positive in the most negative places. This team could go 0-100 and you would give us all hope.I am awarding you "Fan of the Millenium" and forwarding your resume to the Chiefs PR department....lol
You would've hated him in 07-08. No one was more critical of this team than him.

[Ryfo18]

You would've hated him in 07-08. No one was more critical of this team than him.

He has a lot of good points, and it's not to say this team wouldn't be very competitive with a healthy team and a couple more key players. But injuries are going to be a big part of the game, and the Chiefs were relatively lucky in 2010 b/c it seemed like there were no key injuries, and every week the injury report contained maybe 2-3 guys.

The lack of depth is on Pioli. Simply put he makes most of the personnel decisions. Still, this team has been ill-prepared to play most weeks.

[chief31]

Chief31, i have to say, you can find a positive in the most negative places. This team could go 0-100 and you would give us all hope.I am awarding you "Fan of the Millenium" and forwarding your resume to the Chiefs PR department....lol


You would've hated him in 07-08. No one was more critical of this team than him.

KCraised...

I am not that guy. I promise you that.

I just see things from different angles.

Todd Haley took over a bad team. And I despised him through his first year here.

I thought getting Matt Cassel was a total waste. I though Todd Haley was a terrible hire, right from the start.

Had this happened in 2010, nobody would have been louder than I, in calling for Haley's head.

But it didn't. He made chicken salad out of....

Well, you know the phrase.

And this season, I think he has done the same.

The hand he has been dealt here is just horrible.

And the results have been better than I could have possibly expected.

[chief31]

He has a lot of good points, and it's not to say this team wouldn't be very competitive with a healthy team and a couple more key players. But injuries are going to be a big part of the game, and the Chiefs were relatively lucky in 2010 b/c it seemed like there were no key injuries, and every week the injury report contained maybe 2-3 guys.

The lack of depth is on Pioli. Simply put he makes most of the personnel decisions. Still, this team has been ill-prepared to play most weeks.

Injuries are absolutely part of the game.

But, certain players are too important to lose, and expect positive results.

I think Charles is one of those guys that, his loss is far more comparable to losing Peyton Manning, or Aaron Rodgers, or Troy Polamalu.

And, while losing a single player, even one that is that unique, should not make this big of an impact, it has not been just that one player.

And the other players lost are not just random guys either.

It's Matt Cassel, (who also makes chicken salad) Eric Berry, (a monster starter on the defense) and Tony Moeaki.

And the shear quantity of other player losses is just overwhelming.

It's just too much to lose, and expect much.

[okikcfan]

We do have talented starters but alot of our backs ups are so so. Palko, our oline needs lots of work, I do not believe Cassel is our man and we may never find out if ol puss n boots Orton is really any good. I agree with Chief31 Haley has been delt a bad hand and has done ok with what he has had to work with. We need to build from this.

[azchiefsfan]

If you go back and look, after JC went down I predicted 6-10, 10-6 before then. I would love for us to get one more win and for Haley to return and see what he can do with a whole team. But if he can't pull just one more win, I will lean towards giving him the boot.

[matthewschiefs]

Injuries are absolutely part of the game.

But, certain players are too important to lose, and expect positive results.

I think Charles is one of those guys that, his loss is far more comparable to losing Peyton Manning, or Aaron Rodgers, or Troy Polamalu.

And, while losing a single player, even one that is that unique, should not make this big of an impact, it has not been just that one player.

And the other players lost are not just random guys either.

It's Matt Cassel, (who also makes chicken salad) Eric Berry, (a monster starter on the defense) and Tony Moeaki.

And the shear quantity of other player losses is just overwhelming.

It's just too much to lose, and expect much.



I will say this one more time THIS TEAM IS NOT JUST LOSEING IT'S NOT COMPETING.

Don't tell me this team can't compete we have seen it. EVEN AFTER THE INJURIES. Last week Pittsburgh. This team CAN COMPETE. THEY HAVE PROVEN IT. BUT THERE NOT FAR TO OFTEN. Haley deserves a pink slip for that. I don't think that asking a team to compete is to much to ask for.

[drstandley31]

We do have talented starters but alot of our backs ups are so so. Palko, our oline needs lots of work, I do not believe Cassel is our man and we may never find out if ol puss n boots Orton is really any good. I agree with Chief31 Haley has been delt a bad hand and has done ok with what he has had to work with. We need to build from this.
Almost all new coaches are dealt a bad hand, or they wouldn't be there! This year the problem is not winning, it's not competing. Haley rolled the dice, and it didn't go well. If his off-season plan would have worked, he would have gotten high reward. It didn't work, he gets the boot. It's a risk/reward world. He (and maybe his boss) have made some very bad choices and it's obvious they have not worked. The mear fact that Palko is our primary backup shows you bad decision making. We need a strong organization, and it's too bad, but Haley doesn't cut it.

[azchiefsfan]

Well, Pioli has assembled a lot of serious talent. He's not going to go anywhere for quite a while. Haley is definitely on the bubble, though. I sometimes think he needs to go, then I think of another 2-3 years of restructuring for a new coach and I want to hang on to him and hope he can figure it out with a healthy team.

[Bike]

and we should get Charles back,

Torn ACL's on athletes such as Charles are VERY difficult to come back from - especially for a cutback type of runner that Charles is. I'm not saying he won't be back. I just don't think he'll ever be the same runner as he was before.

[Miller]

I could even accept that.
But Haley keeps running the worst qb in the league out the instead of getting Stanzi some reps.

The Packers won it all last year with tons of injuries.
If we had the same 5-8 record but had at least been in most our games, I would be ok with that, with all the injuries. But we have been blown out 5 times.

Theres not a coach in the NFL who would be safe with that outside of Bill Belicheck.
Even Belicheck would be on the hotseat if he was coaching like that. But he wouldn't, he is a great coach.

[Bike]

Well, Pioli has assembled a lot of serious talent. He's not going to go anywhere for quite a while. Haley is definitely on the bubble, though. I sometimes think he needs to go, then I think of another 2-3 years of restructuring for a new coach and I want to hang on to him and hope he can figure it out with a healthy team.
It's always another 2-3 years of restructuring for this team. It's getting old.

[drstandley31]

Well, Pioli has assembled a lot of serious talent. He's not going to go anywhere for quite a while. Haley is definitely on the bubble, though. I sometimes think he needs to go, then I think of another 2-3 years of restructuring for a new coach and I want to hang on to him and hope he can figure it out with a healthy team.
My issue is the revolving door. It's not like we won't have another 2-3 years of restructuring anyway, because he can't get along with his coaches. We have a OC revolving door as it is. We don't have lot of serious talent. We have some great talent with zero depth. And Zero attitude! We don't have an offensive line! We have money in the bank and nobody to block. Our Starting QB is out, because he got the #$%# beat out of him every snap. That's not serious talent, that's worring more about the bottom financial line than winning. Which is why we have a Plako!

[Bike]

We do have talented starters but alot of our backs ups are so so. Palko, our oline needs lots of work, I do not believe Cassel is our man and we may never find out if ol puss n boots Orton is really any good. I agree with Chief31 Haley has been delt a bad hand and has done ok with what he has had to work with. We need to build from this.
Palko shouldn't even be on this team. That is a poor management decision IMO. Good teams have good backups. Look at the Jets - they were able to sit Sanchez and bring in a 3-time pro-bowl QB (Brunnell). Albeit past his prime - he is perfect for the roll he plays and has lots of NFL experience. Why can't we have somebody like that?

[chief31]

I will say this one more time THIS TEAM IS NOT JUST LOSEING IT'S NOT COMPETING.

Don't tell me this team can't compete we have seen it. EVEN AFTER THE INJURIES. Last week Pittsburgh. This team CAN COMPETE. THEY HAVE PROVEN IT. BUT THERE NOT FAR TO OFTEN. Haley deserves a pink slip for that. I don't think that asking a team to compete is to much to ask for.

This team, minus it's best players, can not be competitive every week.

You have seen that.

Asking a team in the situation this team is in to not get beaten badly is as reasonable as asking a man with one arm to block Jared Allen.

He may succeed on a few plays, but, for the most part, you have to expect some really ugly efforts.

When your team suffers the type of injuries that this one has, and you realize that they were not as good as you thought, expectations should change more than yours have, in my opinion.

[Bike]

This team, minus it's best players, can not be competitive every week.

You have seen that.

Asking a team in the situation this team is in to not get beaten badly is as reasonable as asking a man with one arm to block Jared Allen.

He may succeed on a few plays, but, for the most part, you have to expect some really ugly efforts.

When your team suffers the type of injuries that this one has, and you realize that they were not as good as you thought, expectations should change more than yours have, in my opinion.
Why do you keep falling back on injuries as an excuse for getting slaughtered? Why hasn't the management of this organization brought in competent backups? Why don't we have a backup qb with some nfl experience? Are there injuries on the OL? Why don't we YET have an nfl caliber OL? Why have we yet to draft a NT to anchor this 3-4 defense? Or, why do we even run a 3-4 defense?
Injuries are definetely part of the problem, but piss-poor management has brought on much more devastating consequences IMHO.

[chief31]

Why do you keep falling back on injuries as an excuse for getting slaughtered? Why hasn't the management of this organization brought in competent backups? Why don't we have a backup qb with some nfl experience? Are there injuries on the OL? Why don't we YET have an nfl caliber OL? Why have we yet to draft a NT to anchor this 3-4 defense? Or, why do we even run a 3-4 defense?
Injuries are definetely part of the problem, but piss-poor management has brought on much more devastating consequences IMHO.

Why do I keep bringing up the injuries?

Because those players are still not playing.

Why do you insist upon acting like the team MVP is just some player?

We are talking about a guy who came within a handful of yards from breaking the all-time record for efficiency as a RB.

And that was with an O-line that Pro-Bowlers Larry Johnson and Thomas Jones could not manage an average that suggested they would be good playing highschool football.

It's not that we have lost players to injury. It's the importance of the particular players, and the amount of time that they will have missed as a result.

Albert Pujols would be out of MLB if one of hands were removed.

And The KC Chiefs would struggle to stay in games if they lost JC, Eric Berry, Tony Moeaki, Matt Cassel, and Brando Siler, without an offseason to replace them.

[ctchiefsfan]

Oh man 31......It's getting hard to be a Haley backer..... I agree with everything you have said, but seeing Palko in there one incompetent series after another is getting really really old.

The season is F***ed and unlike what some would have us believe, it is NOT all Haley's fault. But you have to feed the ravenous beast n(that would be us....the fans) some still warm raw meat every now and then.

Sticking with Palko is costing Haley what support he still has left. If Orton can't or won't go (I'm not sure which it would be) next week then Stanzi needs to go in. If Palko starts again next week I am going to puke until my guts bleed.

[chief31]

Oh man 31......It's getting hard to be a Haley backer..... I agree with everything you have said, but seeing Palko in there one incompetent series after another is getting really really old.

The season is F***ed and unlike what some would have us believe, it is NOT all Haley's fault. But you have to feed the ravenous beast n(that would be us....the fans) some still warm raw meat every now and then.

Sticking with Palko is costing Haley what support he still has left. If Orton can't or won't go (I'm not sure which it would be) next week then Stanzi needs to go in. If Palko starts again next week I am going to puke until my guts bleed.

I agree.

I don't know what the deal is there.

I know you want to show your guy you have some faith in him. But I think he has shown enough.

Looks like Haley held out just a little longer than I probably would have.

[matthewschiefs]

This team, minus it's best players, can not be competitive every week.

You have seen that.

Asking a team in the situation this team is in to not get beaten badly is as reasonable as asking a man with one arm to block Jared Allen.

He may succeed on a few plays, but, for the most part, you have to expect some really ugly efforts.

When your team suffers the type of injuries that this one has, and you realize that they were not as good as you thought, expectations should change more than yours have, in my opinion.


Then tell me Why the dolphins who lost there starting QB were able to come into ARROWHEAD and win 31-3 a WINLESS Dolphins team? They had injuries shouldn't they have been pushovers.

Then tell me why Denver lost THERE first 2 Rbs in the game had no time to adjust had there 3RD STRING guy come in and run all over our d. There offense lost 2 guys. Shouldn't they have been pushovers.

THIS CAN NOT BE IGNORED. Haley is not doing his job. If we blindly just say well there were injuries when a guy IS CLEARLY not doing his job then we are going to be in 08 mode yet again. It was clear in 07 that Herm wasn't doing his job but since he had injuries to lj and such he was brought back. How did that work out? When a Head coach is CLEARLY not doing his job he needs to go for the betterment of the team.

[KCraised]

Why do you keep falling back on injuries as an excuse for getting slaughtered? Why hasn't the management of this organization brought in competent backups? Why don't we have a backup qb with some nfl experience? Are there injuries on the OL? Why don't we YET have an nfl caliber OL? Why have we yet to draft a NT to anchor this 3-4 defense? Or, why do we even run a 3-4 defense?
Injuries are definetely part of the problem, but piss-poor management has brought on much more devastating consequences IMHO.
Just watching Jack Harry and Frank Boal talking about the game and I think Jack is about to have an anuerism talking about how bad Haley is...lol. Frank Boal says rumor is
Josh McDaniel's name is floating around but Boal says nobody wants McDaniels anywhere close to here but Haley has to go now. They said alot of irate fans calling for his head. Poor Jack;-P

[Three7s]

Just watching Jack Harry and Frank Boal talking about the game and I think Jack is about to have an anuerism talking about how bad Haley is...lol. Frank Boal says rumor is
Josh McDaniel's name is floating around but Boal says nobody wants McDaniels anywhere close to here but Haley has to go now. They said alot of irate fans calling for his head. Poor Jack;-P
I want Haley gone too for the record, but only because he shows far too much favoritism with certain players and doesn't maximize talent or search elsewhere when there's no results.

[texaschief]

Haley has this team, without most of it's talent, with five wins, where Herm had two wins.

And you never stopped believing in Herm.

But you were out for Haley's blood from the day he was hired.

My question is, are you aware of the severity of your bias in this matter? Or do you feel like you are giving an objective opinion?

Herm Edwards never got to coach THIS team. The majority of the TALENT the Chiefs and your boy Todd Haley rely on to win were drafted by Edwards. Do you HONESTLY think Edwards had ANY talent on his teams? When Edwards took over, the Chiefs were the OLDEST TEAM in the league. The ONE year that he still had talent on the roster, he took them to the playoffs.

I've said this before... Dick Vermeil KNEW the window had closed on this team and he left a big pile of burning ashes in his wake with the enormous help of Carl Peterson. Peterson and Vermeil traded so many top draft picks to get players who were ready to win RIGHT NOW in hopes of getting Lamar a trophy before he passed. It didn't work. Go back and look at the drafts the Chiefs had while Vermeil was here. They were atrocious!

Edwards was brought in to oversee a massive rebuild, find talent, and nurture young players. Period. I got to talk to the guy for an hour while he was here calling a high school game for ESPN in SA. I asked him about EVERYTHING. I KNOW, WITHOUT A DOUBT what happened with that franchise during his tenure there and it's EXACTLY what I thought it was during those years. Edwards was nothing but a patsy.

Chiefs fans were so caught up in the epic offensive display of the early part of the decade and got so close to seeing another Super Bowl that they couldn't see the rotting of the foundation. When they said they were going to completely rebuild the franchise, what did you think that meant? Did you honestly expect a winning team? Even if Herm was still here, this team wouldn't have been ready for a serious run until 2011 at the EARLIEST! It takes time to completely rebuild through youth.

You act like Charles, Hali, Carr, Flowers, Bowe, Johnson, Albert, etc etc etc were all playing at the levels they are now while he was here. Of course the Chiefs were good last year... they played one of, if not THE easiest schedule in the league... WITHOUT any real injuries... AND STILL COULDN'T PREVENT BACK TO BACK BLOWOUTS AT THE END OF THE YEAR! Last year was fool's gold and you're a fool if you believe Todd Haley was responsible for the sudden uptick in defensive and offensive production when they had brought in real coaches like Crennel and Weis.




Basically, this team, even having lost it's most talented starters, and having had the offense discovered as being based on a false promise, STILL has more wins than in 2008, 2009 and 2010.

That is an impressive feat.

To improve this team, while losing so much talent, and to still have three more chances to win even more......

You want to fire the coach?

We have a very good defense. Not a miraculous defense... yet. But a very good one.

And the offense is better than it look. (Give us our starters back, and see.)

Plus, the offense will get a whole lot of serious attention during the offseason.

I look forward to seeing what we are capable in 2012.

I dread the thought of starting over again.

A new coach does not mean starting over again. Pioli is going to bring someone in who will want to run a 3-4 defense... so there won't be a massive defensive overhaul like there was after Edwards had to rebuild because of lack of talent from old age... or Haley having to rebuild because Edwards had built for a 4-3 instead of a 3-4...

at least I HOPE Pioli would bring in a 3-4 minded HC... otherwise, Pioli should lose his job too. That's just stupid.


KCraised...

I am not that guy. I promise you that.

I just see things from different angles.

Todd Haley took over a bad team. And I despised him through his first year here.

I thought getting Matt Cassel was a total waste. I though Todd Haley was a terrible hire, right from the start.

Had this happened in 2010, nobody would have been louder than I, in calling for Haley's head.

But it didn't. He made chicken salad out of....

Well, you know the phrase.

And this season, I think he has done the same.

The hand he has been dealt here is just horrible.

And the results have been better than I could have possibly expected.

I'M SORRY FOR THE SIZE, BUT THIS WHOLE STATEMENT DRIVES ME ABSOLUTE BATSHI# CRAZY!!! HOW THE HELL CAN YOU SIT HERE AND SAY HALEY GOT DEALT A BAD HAND AND TOOK OVER A BAD TEAM, BUT DON'T SAY THE SAME ABOUT EDWARDS???!!! THE BEST TALENT ON THIS TEAM IS FROM THE EDWARDS ERA!! CARL PETERSON DESTROYED THIS TEAM WITH DICK VERMEIL, LET IT GET RIDICULOUSLY OLD, THEN TASKED EDWARDS TO REBUILD THE FRANCHISE WITH ONE HAND TIED BEHIND HIS BACK BY SIGNING LARRY JOHNSON TO A STUPID EFFING CONTRACT AND YOU'RE GIVING TODD HALEY A PASS????

Your overall team evaluations are absolutely backward. With the young talent that was left on this team, along with a couple more solid drafts and free agent signings, this team could've been ready to compete for a Super Bowl this season... and doing so by winning difficult games on a first place schedule and not banking on 2012 where they'll have another last place schedule. Just like I said when Todd Haley and Scott Pioli were hired, anyone who comes in after this season is going to reap the benefits of what was left behind. When Haley gets fired, I don't care WHO gets hired next season, with Charles, Moeaki, and Berry back with another solid draft class and few key free agents paired with ANOTHER last place schedule, the next head coach is going to look like a freaking GOD compared to Haley and what happened this season... no doubt about it.

That doesn't change the fact that this team has lost 10 of it's last 15 games with scores like:
31-0 Healthy
31-10 Healthy
30-7 Healthy
41-7 Healthy
48-3
31-3
17-10
34-3
13-9
37-10

You act like this team pulled off some major feat last season when in fact, they got wins off teams like Jax, Cle, Buf, Arz, Sea, Stl, Den, SF, and Ten... only TWO of those teams boasts a winning record this year and NONE of them had a winning record last year. Hell, we even lost to a losing Texans and Broncos team along with a .500 Oakland team... TWICE. 9 of the 10 wins we had last year came against teams BELOW .500. The ONE win we got was opening night when SD couldn't figure out how to tackle on special teams. When it was finally time to face a .500 team during the last week... AT ARROWHEAD... what happened??? I'LL TELL YOU... WE GOT BLOWN THE #UCK OUT BY OUR MOST HATED DIVISION RIVAL FOR THE SECOND TIME!... But all was good... Todd Haley had the answers for us in the playoffs... he sure knows how to game plan... we roll into the playoffs with HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE... against a team ABOVE .500... guess what happened... THAT'S RIGHT, BLOWN THE #UCK OUT AGAIN 30-7.

THERE'S A PATTERN HERE AND NO INJURIES TO BLAME IT ON!

Todd Haley shouldn't just be fired for what has happened THIS season. He should be fired for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG LINE of bull**** that he's pulled since he arrived in KC... not the least of which if firing his OC the week before the regular season started only to get BLOWN THE #UCK OUT by said OC this season when Haley still had a full deck to play with. The guy STILL can't work with anyone on the offensive side of the ball and can't score points to save his life. The only time we actually score points is when the defense either sets up great field position or scores on their own.

At some point, you need to realize, it's not the damn injuries... he's just not a good HC.

[Chiefster]

Ummmmm, Edwards took the Chiefs to the Playoffs with Vermeil's guys, not his. Just sayin.

[chief31]

Then tell me Why the dolphins who lost there starting QB were able to come into ARROWHEAD and win 31-3 a WINLESS Dolphins team? They had injuries shouldn't they have been pushovers.

Who was their starting QB?

Charles is far more important to this offense than some Dolphins lackee is to theirs.

In fact, once whoever that guy is was out of the lineup, some nobody came in and showed that the QB was just bad, and getting rid of him proved to be a good thing.

Jamaal Charles was not some nobody, holding back The Chiefs offense.

It's like comparing a foot amputation to removal of a tumor.

You see how one is better than the other, right?


Then tell me why Denver lost THERE first 2 Rbs in the game had no time to adjust had there 3RD STRING guy come in and run all over our d. There offense lost 2 guys. Shouldn't they have been pushovers.

The RBs in that offense don't really matter.

It's the blocking, and the scheme.

Just like when Priest Holmes went down with injury, and Larry Johnson stepped in.




THIS CAN NOT BE IGNORED. Haley is not doing his job. If we blindly just say well there were injuries when a guy IS CLEARLY not doing his job then we are going to be in 08 mode yet again. It was clear in 07 that Herm wasn't doing his job but since he had injuries to lj and such he was brought back. How did that work out? When a Head coach is CLEARLY not doing his job he needs to go for the betterment of the team.

So, tell me something, what do YOU think the difference between The Colts, losing Peyton Manning, and The Dolphins, losing (Honestly, who was it?) is?

Please tell me you understant the difference between a great player, and a nobody.

[70 chiefsfan70]

Herm Edwards never got to coach THIS team. The majority of the TALENT the Chiefs and your boy Todd Haley rely on to win were drafted by Edwards. Do you HONESTLY think Edwards had ANY talent on his teams? When Edwards took over, the Chiefs were the OLDEST TEAM in the league. The ONE year that he still had talent on the roster, he took them to the playoffs.

I've said this before... Dick Vermeil KNEW the window had closed on this team and he left a big pile of burning ashes in his wake with the enormous help of Carl Peterson. Peterson and Vermeil traded so many top draft picks to get players who were ready to win RIGHT NOW in hopes of getting Lamar a trophy before he passed. It didn't work. Go back and look at the drafts the Chiefs had while Vermeil was here. They were atrocious!

Edwards was brought in to oversee a massive rebuild, find talent, and nurture young players. Period. I got to talk to the guy for an hour while he was here calling a high school game for ESPN in SA. I asked him about EVERYTHING. I KNOW, WITHOUT A DOUBT what happened with that franchise during his tenure there and it's EXACTLY what I thought it was during those years. Edwards was nothing but a patsy.

Chiefs fans were so caught up in the epic offensive display of the early part of the decade and got so close to seeing another Super Bowl that they couldn't see the rotting of the foundation. When they said they were going to completely rebuild the franchise, what did you think that meant? Did you honestly expect a winning team? Even if Herm was still here, this team wouldn't have been ready for a serious run until 2011 at the EARLIEST! It takes time to completely rebuild through youth.

You act like Charles, Hali, Carr, Flowers, Bowe, Johnson, Albert, etc etc etc were all playing at the levels they are now while he was here. Of course the Chiefs were good last year... they played one of, if not THE easiest schedule in the league... WITHOUT any real injuries... AND STILL COULDN'T PREVENT BACK TO BACK BLOWOUTS AT THE END OF THE YEAR! Last year was fool's gold and you're a fool if you believe Todd Haley was responsible for the sudden uptick in defensive and offensive production when they had brought in real coaches like Crennel and Weis.





A new coach does not mean starting over again. Pioli is going to bring someone in who will want to run a 3-4 defense... so there won't be a massive defensive overhaul like there was after Edwards had to rebuild because of lack of talent from old age... or Haley having to rebuild because Edwards had built for a 4-3 instead of a 3-4...

at least I HOPE Pioli would bring in a 3-4 minded HC... otherwise, Pioli should lose his job too. That's just stupid.



I'M SORRY FOR THE SIZE, BUT THIS WHOLE STATEMENT DRIVES ME ABSOLUTE BATSHI# CRAZY!!! HOW THE HELL CAN YOU SIT HERE AND SAY HALEY GOT DEALT A BAD HAND AND TOOK OVER A BAD TEAM, BUT DON'T SAY THE SAME ABOUT EDWARDS???!!! THE BEST TALENT ON THIS TEAM IS FROM THE EDWARDS ERA!! CARL PETERSON DESTROYED THIS TEAM WITH DICK VERMEIL, LET IT GET RIDICULOUSLY OLD, THEN TASKED EDWARDS TO REBUILD THE FRANCHISE WITH ONE HAND TIED BEHIND HIS BACK BY SIGNING LARRY JOHNSON TO A STUPID EFFING CONTRACT AND YOU'RE GIVING TODD HALEY A PASS????

Your overall team evaluations are absolutely backward. With the young talent that was left on this team, along with a couple more solid drafts and free agent signings, this team could've been ready to compete for a Super Bowl this season... and doing so by winning difficult games on a first place schedule and not banking on 2012 where they'll have another last place schedule. Just like I said when Todd Haley and Scott Pioli were hired, anyone who comes in after this season is going to reap the benefits of what was left behind. When Haley gets fired, I don't care WHO gets hired next season, with Charles, Moeaki, and Berry back with another solid draft class and few key free agents paired with ANOTHER last place schedule, the next head coach is going to look like a freaking GOD compared to Haley and what happened this season... no doubt about it.

That doesn't change the fact that this team has lost 10 of it's last 15 games with scores like:
31-0 Healthy
31-10 Healthy
30-7 Healthy
41-7 Healthy
48-3
31-3
17-10
34-3
13-9
37-10

You act like this team pulled off some major feat last season when in fact, they got wins off teams like Jax, Cle, Buf, Arz, Sea, Stl, Den, SF, and Ten... only TWO of those teams boasts a winning record this year and NONE of them had a winning record last year. Hell, we even lost to a losing Texans and Broncos team along with a .500 Oakland team... TWICE. 9 of the 10 wins we had last year came against teams BELOW .500. The ONE win we got was opening night when SD couldn't figure out how to tackle on special teams. When it was finally time to face a .500 team during the last week... AT ARROWHEAD... what happened??? I'LL TELL YOU... WE GOT BLOWN THE #UCK OUT BY OUR MOST HATED DIVISION RIVAL FOR THE SECOND TIME!... But all was good... Todd Haley had the answers for us in the playoffs... he sure knows how to game plan... we roll into the playoffs with HOME FIELD ADVANTAGE... against a team ABOVE .500... guess what happened... THAT'S RIGHT, BLOWN THE #UCK OUT AGAIN 30-7.

THERE'S A PATTERN HERE AND NO INJURIES TO BLAME IT ON!

Todd Haley shouldn't just be fired for what has happened THIS season. He should be fired for a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNN NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG LINE of bull**** that he's pulled since he arrived in KC... not the least of which if firing his OC the week before the regular season started only to get BLOWN THE #UCK OUT by said OC this season when Haley still had a full deck to play with. The guy STILL can't work with anyone on the offensive side of the ball and can't score points to save his life. The only time we actually score points is when the defense either sets up great field position or scores on their own.

At some point, you need to realize, it's not the damn injuries... he's just not a good HC.


I agree with almost all of this, but the best point you made was that about Haley don't work well with others,There is no excuse to come in here and stomp his feet and fire the OC in the first week, then play Haley ball and suck. Then we hire a REAL OC weis, and play very good offense and Haley gets his feelings hurt because the media starts talking about how well Weis is doing so he makes sure that Weis leaves, (in one way or another). Then we get another OC and Surprise Surprise! We play Haley ball again!!!! Very preditable Haley ball, TWO LITTLE OR NO GAIN RUNS, THAN A PASS SHORT OF THE FIRST RUN!!!!

This is the most piss poor play calls I have ever seen in my life! This guy is NO LEADER! HE COULDN'T LEAD A FAT KID TO MCDONALDS!

Cassel is no leader, neither is Packo the sacko, or Haley! these are very visual facts to anyone who knows anything about football.

For those who want to know what a leader looks like, look at Tebowe. He had nearly the whole world against him, actually is a terrible QB, but he believes in himself and his team. He has them motivated and winning! Now thats a LEADER!

You don't have to be good at what you do to be a leader, nor does being good at what you do make you a leader......................... I stole that one from George Washington.

Some people turn their heads and can't face the truth.

[chief31]

I'M SORRY FOR THE SIZE, BUT THIS WHOLE STATEMENT DRIVES ME ABSOLUTE BATSHI# CRAZY!!! HOW THE HELL CAN YOU SIT HERE AND SAY HALEY GOT DEALT A BAD HAND AND TOOK OVER A BAD TEAM, BUT DON'T SAY THE SAME ABOUT EDWARDS???!!!

Herm Edwards inheritted a 10-6 team, and proceeded to worsen that record each year he was here.

Todd Haley inherited a 2-14 team, and improved from there.

If not for the overachievments of 2010 raising the bar too far, and the devastation of player losses, then 2011 would have been another step in that direction.

_________________________________________________

I'll have to come back later to respond to the rest. A bit busy today.

[nicfre2011]

So, tell me something, what do YOU think the difference between The Colts, losing Peyton Manning, and The Dolphins, losing (Honestly, who was it?) is?

Please tell me you understant the difference between a great player, and a nobody.


The way I see it, when looking at the Indianapolis Colts, Jim Caldwell SHOULD BE FIRED. Bill Polian the front office emperor and his princely son SHOULD BE FIRED. With Peyton Manning being hurt, Polian has been exposed. When a team is building a roster you can do it one of two ways. You can build a "system" that is not determined by player X's performance but rather in essence the "sum of the parts". I believe New England follows this type of plan. Bill Polian took advante of having Peyton Manning at the helm and build a complete team around Manning...and yes, I mean from the offense to the defense. So when you take out that key component to the machine you have problems. All of the sudden a defense that was built on the premise that opponents will be behind and thus you have a lighter, pass rushing defensive line and rangy pass coverage linebackers. Then when all of the sudden you don't have a lead consistently, teams run the ball down the throat of your undersized defense.

Polian got caught because his moneymaker went down and the whole house of cards did also. And Jim Caldwell was simply a mannekin of a head coach...as long as Manning was running the offense, Caldwell just had to stand there and try and figure out when to call timeouts, etc. When the going got tough, Caldwell was basically exposed as someone who was ill-prepared to handle the pressure of trying to right a sinking ship. Plus, when Manning went down, the fact that there was a complete leadership vacuum was exposed as well. Players like Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark to name a few failed to step up but rather showed that Manning was the de facto leader.

I remember watching an interview with Wayne and Clark right before the game against the Saints....both Wayne and Clark went on and on about how Manning was able to make reads presnap and could do this and that....and then proceeded to talk about how they notice Curtis Painter misses the same things Manning would see. It struck me as a Manning-slobber fest..."We miss Peyton", when if those two "stars" were really leaders, they would have said something along the line "Yes, when a player like Peyton Manning goes down, that is hard to recover from, but Curtis Painter is our quarterback and we are going to rally around him".

So I will get off of my soapbox and stop bashing the Colts, but bottom line, I think the front office and the head coach need to go.

And with the Dolphins, they had more problems than just having Chad Henne go down for the season. They have some talent on the roster, but are not able to translate that on the field with any consistency. Is Tony Sparano going to get fired. I definitely think so. Is Jeff Ireland going to get fired. I don't think so. Is that 100% fair? Maybe not. But the fact remains when a team doesn't win, or can't show any consistency from week in to week out, the head coach is responsible.

I also think if we really want to look deeper, Clark Hunt should be blamed as well. He brought in Scott Pioli because of his perceived ability to install the same type of New England system...with the intent that Pioli can find the talent to compete at a lower cost...meaning, finding "diamonds in the rough". And I believe the fact that we are currently right around $30 million under the cap would attest to that. So Scott has more than likely tried to do his part by finding hidden gems in the street free agent market at the expense of NFL-level talent at key depth positions.

What concerns me about Haley and makes me question his mettle as a head coach is the failed scenario of the offensive plays trickling down from Muir through Haley and then Zorn to Cassel. That went on for a little while....I just don't know if Haley has the experience at this point in time to manage all of the responsibilities of being a head coach...and trusting the coaches you put in place to handle their respective responsibilities. Good coaching staffs get the most out of the talent on the roster. Good front offices make sure there is enough talent on the roster to be competitive despite injuries, etc. Pioli got caught in the frugal game of bankrolling all of that "extra" money that doesn't have to be spent this year with the lack of a salary floor. Haley is getting caught because he reminds me of how Obama is trying to handle his presidency....grasping for straws right now. It just seems that Haley just doesn't know what to do with our team.

[azchiefsfan]

I have been critical, but supportive of Haley. However, the fact that we aren't even the slightest bit competitive most games has me thinking that he may not be up to the job at hand. I think we should see how the season shakes out before he's sent packing, but we cannot close our eyes to the fact that, as of now, he can't coach this team to any consistent level. Even with some of our best guys down, he should be able to get something more out of these guys than he does. Every loss we've had we've looked like JV high schoolers. These players have won some good games this year, so there is no excuse why he can't at least look competitive in our losses. I hope we can pull out 2 more wins this year. Shoot, just one more win will make me feel better about the situation.

[Ryfo18]

The way I see it, when looking at the Indianapolis Colts, Jim Caldwell SHOULD BE FIRED. ........................

Very well thought out post.

[chief31]

So, my friend got a new mitre saw a while back, and was really upset because it was junk. So I had him bring it over, and we would find out why it was so bad.

He does, and he plugs it in, and tries to cut a 2X4 I had laying around the garage.

After about twenty seconds of going at it with the 2X4, he has a long, burnt groove in th board.

I mean, it would eventually get throught there. But it is a brand new saw, it should go through like butter.

So, I investigate, and immediately discover that there is a major flaw here.

He is using a blade for metal cutting. No teeth at all.

So I get into my toolbox and whip out a brand new wood-cutting blade and write the words "Jamaal Charles" on it, and put it into where the blade belongs.

EUREKA! The saw works like a champ!

Now, I am no fool. I paid for my Jamaal Charles blade. So I am keeping it.

And, after hanging out for a while, my friend leaves with his saw, his blade, and no way to cut wood.

At least not until the hardware store opens tomorrow. :D

Now, he owns a wood-cutting blade. But it is a size too big, and does not fit into his saw.

You might have the greatest saw that has ever existed.

But, if you don't have a good blade, then it will not do what you need done, well.

We are without our saw blade, and have still been getting boards cut with our hand saw.

But if you expect the same kind of production as we would have given with the power saw, you will be dissapointed.

How dissapointed are you right now?

[pojote]

When you have a GM and a HC, you need to draw a line to divide tasks (responsibilities).
Personnel: GM
Contracts: GM
Draft: GM
HC: GM
Coaching Staff: GM or HC?
Game plan: HC
Play calling: HC
Overall gaming plan: HC
And so on...

I think that Pioli is just as accountable as Haley.
The game plan was to run a balanced offense? Get a decent backup QB and a decent backup RB.
We need a better O-line? Get a few known names to help (or maybe let go your pro-bowl guard).

I don't think that anyone should be fired, why? They're trying to get us a long term wining team, and I still think is part of mid term plan not to get all the players that we can get. There is still major areas to improve tho. Is Haley the best HC we can get? I really don't know, but it can be worse. If Haley goes, Pioli goes with him, and I think that a new GM/HC combo will waste this team talent most precious years.

I'm really sick of 'Packers had a lot of injuries and still manage to win a SB' argument. Who was 2010 Chiefs best offensive weapon? Charles. Who was 2010 Packers best offensive weapon? Rodgers. Charles injury=Rodgers injury. If Packers can win a SB without Rodgers, I will gladly accept this argument.

[nicfre2011]

So, my friend got a new mitre saw a while back, and was really upset because it was junk. So I had him bring it over, and we would find out why it was so bad.

He does, and he plugs it in, and tries to cut a 2X4 I had laying around the garage.

After about twenty seconds of going at it with the 2X4, he has a long, burnt groove in th board.

I mean, it would eventually get throught there. But it is a brand new saw, it should go through like butter.

So, I investigate, and immediately discover that there is a major flaw here.

He is using a blade for metal cutting. No teeth at all.

So I get into my toolbox and whip out a brand new wood-cutting blade and write the words "Jamaal Charles" on it, and put it into where the blade belongs.

EUREKA! The saw works like a champ!

Now, I am no fool. I paid for my Jamaal Charles blade. So I am keeping it.

And, after hanging out for a while, my friend leaves with his saw, his blade, and no way to cut wood.

At least not until the hardware store opens tomorrow. :D

Now, he owns a wood-cutting blade. But it is a size too big, and does not fit into his saw.

You might have the greatest saw that has ever existed.

But, if you don't have a good blade, then it will not do what you need done, well.

We are without our saw blade, and have still been getting boards cut with our hand saw.

But if you expect the same kind of production as we would have given with the power saw, you will be dissapointed.

How dissapointed are you right now?

It's a nice analogy, but a bit off because we aren't talking about trying to play football in astronaut suits. They aren't trying to play football by a rugby playbook by accident. We are talking about being held to 4 total yards of offense by halftime...including minus 19 in the second quarter. That is unacceptable. You have to find a way to be competitive. I guess without a player like Jamaal Charles we should have petitioned the league to credit us, what 3 points or 7 points per game automatic advantage because we don't have Charles?

Todd Haley has not been able to show any improvement whatsoever on the offensive side of the ball, despite having the historical reputation of having led an explosive offensive attack in Arizona. He has been involved, not been involved, become involved...but the result is the same - absolute inconsistency and an lack of competitiveness.

And all of the penalties at the end of the game does show a collective loss of composure by the team..and by Haley. That's something I would expect the Raiders to do in the past. Not the Chiefs. I think it is a reflection of the team as a whole is not sure how to right the ship...and that includes Haley and the coaching staff, and I think the front office as well should not be sitting in the ivory castle looking down at the town going up in flames and shaking their heads in disgust.

[azchiefsfan]

I think his expertise in Arizona was padded by having a true HOF quarterback in Werner. A truly great QB can make an OC and HC look like geniuses when they're really barely qualified to coach at a junior college. Look at Indy and Arizona, before and after. But a good coach knows how to get the best effort out of his players and at least compete even without a star QB. The whole question is, from what we've seen this year, is Haley the coach that can lead the team to greatness, or does his leadership falter and the team fall apart everytime there's an injury?

[nicfre2011]

I think his expertise in Arizona was padded by having a true HOF quarterback in Werner. A truly great QB can make an OC and HC look like geniuses when they're really barely qualified to coach at a junior college. Look at Indy and Arizona, before and after. But a good coach knows how to get the best effort out of his players and at least compete even without a star QB. The whole question is, from what we've seen this year, is Haley the coach that can lead the team to greatness, or does his leadership falter and the team fall apart everytime there's an injury?

Personally, I think he is a good offensive coordinator, but might have a hard time balancing all of the responsibilities that come with being a head coach....call it becoming overwhelmed. Add to that, the fact that he is still keeping his hands in the cookie jar when it comes to the offensive plays...largely because Bill Muir, who Haley appointed to OC, seems to be a failure.

[pojote]

Haley was fired.

[nicfre2011]

Haley was fired.

Huh?

[figcrostic]

Haley was fired.

Link

[pojote]

Huh?

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/HALEY-RELIEVED-OF-DUTIES/9f2d029b-c450-48cb-9791-8038582a3270

[figcrostic]

http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/HALEY-RELIEVED-OF-DUTIES/9f2d029b-c450-48cb-9791-8038582a3270

HOLY S****!!!!!!!! Who's the coach now???

[ctchiefsfan]

Looks like this debate is over.

Chiefs fire Todd Haley | ProFootballTalk (http://bleacherreport.com/tb/bcxpY)

[ctchiefsfan]

HOLY S****!!!!!!!! Who's the coach now???

Just so long as it isn't that ashhole McDaniels. That would be more than I can take.

[SIC J]

Just so long as it isn't that ashhole McDaniels. That would be more than I can take.

Sources have said he's that is being taken in consideration so far. I hope not!

[ctchiefsfan]

If Pioli hires McDaniels then as far as I'm concerned at the end of the season Hunt should fire the whole rotten lot of them!!!

[ctchiefsfan]

Crennel named interim head coach....

Romeo Crennel Named Chiefs Interim Head Coach (http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/Romeo-Crennel-Named-Chiefs-Interim-Head-Coach-/992b6348-d35b-4ef6-aefc-d6b2583fa14c)

[texaschief]

Ummmmm, Edwards took the Chiefs to the Playoffs with Vermeil's guys, not his. Just sayin.

Exactly my point... when the guy HAD talent, he was able to coach to the team to the playoffs. It's not like he took a playoff team and then only won 2 games with them the next season. There was absolutely ZERO young, developed talent on that team when he took over. All he had to work with was Jared Allen and Larry Johnson... no QB... no WR.... no O-line... no Dline.... no linebackers.... no defensive secondary... NOTHING.

[QUOTE=chief31;245941]Herm Edwards inheritted a 10-6 team, and proceeded to worsen that record each year he was here.

Again... Just as a team is going to improve with lots of young talent, as the Chiefs have over the past couple years, so is a team going to decline with lots of OLD talent... which is what the Chiefs had when Herm took over... What about this concept is so hard for you to grasp??

[ctchiefsfan]

And why is this debate still taking place? Herm-the-Worm is gone as is Haley. What's left to debate?

[dbolan]

I don't want to hear the injury BS. That's just an excuse. Injuries do keep you from winning they DON'T KEEP YOU FROM COMPETING. Just look at Houston. How many qbs have they been through. Are they getting blown out over and over like this team? THIS TEAM IS NOT COMPETEING.

Haley Keeps throw a QB that has PROVEN he can't do anything out there. Haley is not DOING HIS JOB putting this team in the best spot to win. HALEY NEEDS TO GO.

Talent wins whether you want to admit it or not. When key players are lost and you have true 2nd and 3rd string to play those roles...good f'n luck!

Food for thought...How far under the cap were the Chiefs this year?? Could we afford higher caliber players? Hmmm....

[okikcfan]

I will be the firt to admit that I was Kinda pro Haley, sorta speak. I didn't like the inconsistency and lopsided losses from one game to the next but I dont like the unknown aspect of bringing in a new HC. But now that Haley has been fired and the stories are leaking out, I felt at this point it was for the best. So I will eat my crow thank you. My worry is what will come next. I just hope it is sooner that later.

[ctchiefsfan]

I'm still far from convinced that this was a good move, but it is what it is.

I just hope that by week 8 of next year we are not wishing we had Haley back.

[AkChief49]

If Peterson was still running things where would your point of fault lie?

[dbolan]

If Peterson was still running things where would your point of fault lie?

Very good point!!

[Hayvern]

If Peterson was still running things where would your point of fault lie?

It really doesn't matter. Peterson had his own set of problems that have not carried through to Pioli yet as far as anyone can tell. Pioli has his own issues, but I do not place the blame of the season on him. Pioli gave Haley players, sure we could have had better offensive line players, but he has shown that he is interested in winning and is working on bringing the right players in. In the latter years, I don't feel the me about peterson.

I don't see why it is so hard for people who are Haley supporters to understand why he was let go. Attitude, plain and simple it is about attitude. Haley had a negative one, it is apparent, that is never going to work in this organization, we deserve better and we should demand better.

[AkChief49]

It really doesn't matter. Peterson had his own set of problems that have not carried through to Pioli yet as far as anyone can tell. Pioli has his own issues, but I do not place the blame of the season on him. Pioli gave Haley players, sure we could have had better offensive line players, but he has shown that he is interested in winning and is working on bringing the right players in. In the latter years, I don't feel the me about peterson.

I don't see why it is so hard for people who are Haley supporters to understand why he was let go. Attitude, plain and simple it is about attitude. Haley had a negative one, it is apparent, that is never going to work in this organization, we deserve better and we should demand better.
Not claiming to be a total Haley supporter. He did plenty to tick me off with some of his(embarrassing) antics. Supported him while he was here, sure. But here we are on the 3 year cycle again. That cannot keep happening. I hope and pray McDaniels does not come in here!!!! I've said it before, we need to do things the "Chief Way"- forge our own identity. If that is defense, so be it. I'll settle for any strong suit at this point.

[ctchiefsfan]

I defended Haley to the end. And GLAD I did. His tenure gave me a lot more pleasure as a fan that that moron Herm-the-worm did.

But he is gone now and that is that.

I hope that with whoever our new coach is next year we improve substantially.

One thing is certain though....if our new coach doesn't do substantially better....with a weaker schedule and healthy players then I am going to want Pioli's head and I will be saying...."I told you so".

[GoHardorGoHome]

Okay, Here's the bottom line and Pioli knows it. We did a very $h%^# job in Free agency.

WE.....HAVE.....NO.....DEPTH :sAng_scream:

Who's fault is that? Who's holding Clark's wallet?

:banghead: PIOLI

However, Todd Haley has done some pretty weird $#%^ this year. I like that he's an A-hole but you cannot be friends with the players (he was). You are not a coordinator......you're a HC. As someone who coaches youth football and has a lot of management experience, there is a very thin line you must not cross.

As far as the Packers makin' the SB last year with 12 in IR:

The difference between us and GB & teams like Houston is a solid O-LINE and a physical run game. We haven't had a physical run game since before LJ was spittin' on women. You can't keep a Defense healthy when they have more reps than your frickin' offense does.

IS it just me or does Thomas Jones run everywhere but where the frickin' hole is? I like TJ but he's not the same this year. Seriously, the Offense was broken before they ever stepped on the field this year AND YES.....Muir must go.

CLUES:

Jamaal was worryin me in Preseason with all the fumbles. This team was NOT prepared to start the season. That falls on Haley and NO DEPTH falls on Pioli. If it was me, I would've sent them both packin'. :mob:

We're a small market so we must pay BIG MONEY to attract "some" of the essential pieces we need to win.

Just my honest humble redneck opinion.

[TopekaRoy]

The difference between us and GB & teams like Houston is a solid O-LINE and a physical run game. We haven't had a physical run game since before LJ was spittin' on women.
Green Bay doesn't have a good run game, but as long as Aaron stay s healthy, they don't need one.

You don't think we had a "physical run game" just last year with Charles healthy? It was #1 in the NFL, IIRC.

This year, not so much.

[70 chiefsfan70]

I'm glad they got rid of Haley, but Pioli is at fault too. I think they made the right decision to keep pioli. We are too close to being a good team to start over and s**t runs downhill whether we like it or not.

I expect them to sign Crennel in as headcoach just because he would be the transition with the least change in the positive of this team. If we sign a different guy for the job, we would more then likely loose all our coaches and it would take much longer for the transition. Also its much easier to hire a new DC, Also much less money being spent.

I think Josh McD. will be the OC, I would hate to have him as a headcoach but he should be ok with OC. I know he didn't get the job done in ST. Louis but he has a tract record of being an ok OC.

Pioli will get this one more shot to get it right or he will certainly be next.

[azchiefsfan]

He has an ok record of having Tom Brady as his QB. If Brady isn't his QB, he can't win. You simply cannot gloss over his utter failure in Denver and St Louis. It will be more of the same garbage like we've seen all this year if McDaniels is brought in.

[dbolan]

Pioli gave Haley players, sure we could have had better offensive line players,

Any idiot KNOWS that you have to have a SOLID O LINE to move the chains.

He gets paid the big bucks to make that happen. He did not do it.

How long have we been b*tchin about the O line??

[GoHardorGoHome]

Any idiot KNOWS that you have to have a SOLID O LINE to move the chains.

He gets paid the big bucks to make that happen. He did not do it.

How long have we been b*tchin about the O line??

since Willie roaf retired! and we have sucked ever since. I still believe that we take a Qb in the 1St and build our line through the rest of the draft and free agency. Seriously need to completely focus on those two areas very intinsely.

[dbolan]

since Willie roaf retired! and we have sucked ever since. I still believe that we take a Qb in the 1St and build our line through the rest of the draft and free agency. Seriously need to completely focus on those two areas very intinsely.


Haven't we drafted linemen and pruned the FA tree but with no lasting, positive results??? The problem is the person PICKING the players. Hell, Will Shields retired on us and now is playing for...Who?....Oh, the Pats! Niiiice!!

[ctchiefsfan]

Hell, Will Shields retired on us and now is playing for...Who?....Oh, the Pats! Niiiice!!

WTF? Since when is Shields playing for the Splats? News to me.

[GoHardorGoHome]

WTF? Since when is Shields playing for the Splats? News to me.

Correction: Will Shields is retired and runs a sports facilities that he owns in Overland park. Brian Waters is playing for the pats now.

While your b.s.in, I would love to have Shields as our line coach. Can you imagine? Never missed a game and was an outstanding character guy.

[dbolan]

Correction: Will Shields is retired and runs a sports facilities that he owns in Overland park. Brian Waters is playing for the pats now.

While your b.s.in, I would love to have Shields as our line coach. Can you imagine? Never missed a game and was an outstanding character guy.

Roger that correction! It is Brian Waters!

[ctchiefsfan]

I thought that was the case! Glad the alzheimers wasn't kicking in!!!

Now...Shields as a line coach.....That would truly be cool! Hopefully someone will mention the idea to whoever we hire as a new head coach.

[Vandelay]

There is no defending Haley now. Today's performance proved he was doing a suck @ss job. It's amazing what a game plan will do.

[ctchiefsfan]

The change of coaches does seem to have made a positive difference. One game does not make a winner though. The next two games should decide the matter once and for all.

[Vandelay]

I know it was just one game. But if Haley was still the coach it probably would have been another blowout.

Blown out by the Bills and the Fins at home, why would we not expect the same or worse against the Packers?

[matthewschiefs]

There is no defending Haley now. Today's performance proved he was doing a suck @ss job. It's amazing what a game plan will do.

I agree. Not just this game but the fact that while this team was loseing in blow out fashion to teams like Buffalo,Detroit,Miami they are able to beat teams like the Packers and bears while also playing a tough game with the stellers where ANY qb other then Palko would have most likely ended in a win. This is not a team that is struggling due to injuries this is a team that plays up and down to there opponent. That means the Head coach was not doing his job getting the team ready each and every week.