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Ryfo18
12-12-2011, 12:27 PM
It's official on the Chiefs website...Donezo:

HALEY RELIEVED OF DUTIES (http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/article-2/HALEY-RELIEVED-OF-DUTIES/9f2d029b-c450-48cb-9791-8038582a3270)

jb908
12-12-2011, 12:29 PM
Was at the game. Happy to see him go after yesterday

marloweopatchiefs
12-12-2011, 12:30 PM
To bad i made my thread first. haha

figcrostic
12-12-2011, 12:36 PM
Any news on who our new HC is?

matthewschiefs
12-12-2011, 12:36 PM
He earned his pink slip for sure. You can't have a team not show up as many times as he did and keep your job. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Bike
12-12-2011, 12:36 PM
Now was the time. Another 3 years wasted.

nicfre2011
12-12-2011, 12:37 PM
posted this in the other Haley topic :


I would hate to have Crennel promoted to interim head coach because I would prefer he continue to focus on the defense. Personally, I think Jim Zorn would be the best candidate taking everything into account.

Now, I can start my campaign for Bill Cowher! And let's interview Winston Moss as well.

Bill Cowher or Winston Moss - Head Coach
Tom Clements - Offensive Coordinator
Darren Perry - Defensive Coordinator
Romeo Crennel - Assistant head coach

NO to Josh McDaniels!!

marloweopatchiefs
12-12-2011, 12:38 PM
posted this in the other Haley topic :
that's cause i made my thread first or right at the same time but everyone chose to post on this one haha.

loyalchief91
12-12-2011, 12:38 PM
He earned his pink slip for sure. You can't have a team not show up as many times as he did and keep your job. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.

Yeah, I agree

KCraised
12-12-2011, 12:39 PM
I didnt think he would make it for 24 hrs. Hunt and Pioli had to make the move before the season ended. Can't leave that bad taste in fan's mouths during the offseason.

Hayvern
12-12-2011, 12:42 PM
This comes as a bit of a surprise really, but after the penalty HE received yesterday I think one had to expect something was going to happen.

Something changed in Haley this season, I think he was done himself, I don't think he wanted to be coach anymore he lost his fire.

marloweopatchiefs
12-12-2011, 12:46 PM
They were saying on espn that he played palko to prove his point. Wow and that him and scott pioli didn't get along.

figcrostic
12-12-2011, 12:48 PM
They were saying on espn that he played palko to prove his point. Wow and that him and scott pioli didn't get along.

At what point did he prove? That he can make stupid decisions that cost us games?

azchiefsfan
12-12-2011, 12:49 PM
Well, I am surprised. Somewhat saddened even. I was really hoping he could pull another win or two out this year. But I think this will be for the best.

loyalchief91
12-12-2011, 12:50 PM
This comes as a bit of a surprise really, but after the penalty HE received yesterday I think one had to expect something was going to happen.

Something changed in Haley this season, I think he was done himself, I don't think he wanted to be coach anymore he lost his fire.

I didn't watch the game, so do you know why he got a penalty? Yelling at the refs?

buffman316
12-12-2011, 12:54 PM
I am now officially on the Jeff Fisher bandwagon!

jkm555
12-12-2011, 12:56 PM
That was the stupidest move the chiefs could of made

Hayvern
12-12-2011, 12:56 PM
I didn't watch the game, so do you know why he got a penalty? Yelling at the refs?

I do not know, they did not show it, I expect he had a few choice words for the refs after the play where they called not one, but two defensive holding calls. Haley did not respond to the question, but my guess is that is what happened.

jb908
12-12-2011, 01:01 PM
I heard Romeo is interm

OPLookn
12-12-2011, 01:08 PM
Can't say this suprized me or that I could disagree with it. I don't like that we're bringing in a new coach but this pretty much signals that we'll be drafting a QB which I won't disagree with.

The long and short of it is that Haley and Pioli continued to draft well (throwing out 09) and Haley got us closer to where we want to be. I don't feel that he was the answer but hopefully who ever steps in/is the new head coach will keep down the road we're heading and get us back to playoffs and the super bowl. Just don't blow the team up and want to go back to a 4-3 defense.

Bike
12-12-2011, 01:15 PM
That was the stupidest move the chiefs could of made
The 2nd stupidest move - but they had no choice. The 1st stupidest move was bringing Haley here in the first place...

azchiefsfan
12-12-2011, 01:22 PM
"Todd helped this team in many valuable ways over the past three seasons, and I am thankful for his contributions," Chiefs general manager Scott Pioli said. "Unfortunately, we have not been able to establish the kind of consistency we need to continue to build a strong foundation for the future and we believe a change is important at this time."
Sounds like Pioli has been reading my posts. (:

kcvet
12-12-2011, 01:25 PM
now the search for what hopes to be a real qualified HC

pojote
12-12-2011, 01:28 PM
now the search for what hopes to be a real qualified HC

Qualified leaves McDaniels out of the race.

honda522
12-12-2011, 01:38 PM
Kinda good kinda bad.

His inconsistancey was bad, and to me it looked like he didn't give a $**t after about 3 games this year. This team is trying to advance and I feel like he was holding back. His wheel chair OC needs to go to. We need a new play book and someone who can call good plays and can get the offense scoring more than 3 points a game.

But at the same time its bad. Now its like a fresh start, and players are going to be relearning new playbooks.

chief31
12-12-2011, 01:44 PM
They were saying on espn that he played palko to prove his point. Wow and that him and scott pioli didn't get along.

I have to believe this, now.

ANd I also believe that Pioli already has the next HC in mind.

I think it will be McDaniel, and I like that idea.

McDaniel gave The Broncos, the one thing that The Chiefs have had the least of for the past three years, and that is a passing attack.

We have Orton, who he helped rack up some very impressive numbers. But, we also have Cassel, who, in my opinion, is a better QB than Orton.

I imagine that this means we will be drafting a QB, and that 2012 will be another learning experience for The Chiefs, as we get accustomed to McDaniels' (or whoever comes in) new offense.

I hope we keep Crennel at DC. So we are not rebuilding the whole thing.

We still can expect to get Charles back, and a pass-heavy offense would open a whole lot of lanes for him.

So, if we do bring in an offensive-minded HC, and continue with the defense as it is, then I think we will see results sooner than later.

azchiefsfan
12-12-2011, 01:52 PM
Make McDaniels the OC, but can you really overlook how badly he damaged the Donks?

KCraised
12-12-2011, 01:52 PM
At what point did he prove? That he can make stupid decisions that cost us games?

He proved his *** could get fired. Guess the people Haley bashing were on the same page with the front office.

I dont know but I thought the catching balls in porta potties and playing bean bag games in the locker room to build a bond between players was about as idiotic and juvenile coaching as i've ever heard. You are supposed to be a professional friggin player. Leave the bean bag games at Toys R Us. Good riddance to him.

dbolan
12-12-2011, 01:57 PM
Get Cowher or Fisher. Then you will see real change.

chief31
12-12-2011, 01:58 PM
Make McDaniels the OC, but can you really overlook how badly he damaged the Donks?

Where are those Broncos?

1st place?

Seems the "damage" was pretty easy to overcome.

He had less than two seasons with Denver, and produced a strong passing offense.

Rather or not he would have gotten the defense on track in his third year, or not, is purely speculative.

But he definitely had some things working quite well.

I think he was relieved in Denver, because they had been talking to their "golden boy" John Elway, and wanted to make room for him.

And now, it seems that we may have done the same thing to Haley, for ..... not sure who, just yet.

azchiefsfan
12-12-2011, 02:02 PM
Actually, they have started almost from scratch across the board. But either way, I am not happy to see Haley go. I think this has more to do with his personality, that while we were winning, was considered aggressive and when we were losing, was considered abrasive. We need someone from the Pioli/New England system to continue to grow. If it's a HC not from their system, then we're back to 2009 and rebuilding again for another 2-3 years.

kcvet
12-12-2011, 02:06 PM
from NFL.com

NFL Network insider Jason La Canfora reported the Chiefs will announce defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel as the interim coach for the remainder of the season.

The Chiefs went 19-27 during Haley's tenure in Kansas City

link (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d824fad5d/article/chiefs-fire-coach-haley-after-twoplus-seasons-1927-record?module=HP11_breaking_news)

spiman
12-12-2011, 02:09 PM
Why now? Injuries killed us-i would have given one more year.{ Something with contract ?} I think there is more to this then we think.
John Gruden? Doubt he would leave his cush job and warm weather. The list begins..We have a head start in head hunting-a plus.

KCCF
12-12-2011, 02:16 PM
please, do not bring in McDaniels. He single handedly ruined the broncos by trading away all their good proven talent at that point. Pleaseeeee do not bring him in.

figcrostic
12-12-2011, 02:19 PM
"What goes around comes around!!!!"

Jarrad Page via Twitter

KCraised
12-12-2011, 02:20 PM
"What goes around comes around!!!!"

Jarrad Page via Twitter

Damnnnnnnnnnn

OPLookn
12-12-2011, 02:22 PM
"What goes around comes around!!!!"

Jarrad Page via Twitter

Holy cr@p! Wow, after this long to still have that kinda hatred...

Hayvern
12-12-2011, 02:37 PM
Why now? Injuries killed us-i would have given one more year.{ Something with contract ?} I think there is more to this then we think.
John Gruden? Doubt he would leave his cush job and warm weather. The list begins..We have a head start in head hunting-a plus.

I can tell you "why now"

One of the only or very few head coaches to get penalized in a game, I don't even remember Raiders coaches getting a penalty in a game.

Game prep, having the team ready to play

Play calling, anyone remember the fiasco at the beginning of the season trying to get offensive plays in from the sidelines?

No backup QB, this is partly Pioli too, but when you look at the fact Palko is who we are relying on for a backup? really, that is the best we could hope for?

There are tons of other reasons as well, poor game management, bad clock decisions, challenges at stupid points of the game. The fact this team cannot make adjustments in game to keep from getting blown out.

Most, if not all, of those things fall directly on the head coach for responsibility.

spiman
12-12-2011, 03:07 PM
Well said..I hope we do not keep going on with turning over so many coaches so quickly. It"s costly-buyout etc..

jap1
12-12-2011, 03:09 PM
please, do not bring in McDaniels. He single handedly ruined the broncos by trading away all their good proven talent at that point. Pleaseeeee do not bring him in.

This.

I dont like McDonkey. I thought he had a horribly undisciplined team and coaching staff in Denver. Supposedly the spying that one of their coaches did was without his permission ... which is just as bad as if it was with his permission.

Also, its not like he has made the St. Louis Offense some amazing touchdown machine.

His only upside is that he would probably be ok with sticking with Cassel, which means we could probably trade down in the draft and pick up a bunch of OL and DL help.

#58ChiefsFan
12-12-2011, 03:14 PM
Haleys firing should help us keep Romeo as our DC next year and hopefully beyond. I don't know if he would have left or not but there was some speculation to the point.

nigeriannightmare
12-12-2011, 03:21 PM
I posted it somewhere else but fisher is our guy. A member of the xhiefs organization had mentioned it in august a catering function ky brother and i did.

Chiefster
12-12-2011, 03:32 PM
Wow! I have to admit I'm a bit surprised by this.

honda522
12-12-2011, 03:38 PM
please, do not bring in McDaniels. He single handedly ruined the broncos by trading away all their good proven talent at that point. Pleaseeeee do not bring him in.
hey so did john fox. wtf are they winning?

Chiefster
12-12-2011, 04:37 PM
Well, maybe initially shocked but not surprised. :D

figcrostic
12-12-2011, 04:54 PM
Everybody is saying Haley was doomed from game one of this season because him and Pioli did not get along. I'm really starting to not like Pioli.

texaschief
12-12-2011, 05:10 PM
Everybody is saying Haley was doomed from game one of this season because him and Pioli did not get along. I'm really starting to not like Pioli.

I'm having my doubts as well... he'll officially be on my sh!t list if he brings in Josh McDaniel. If you rest your GM abilities on a foundation of Todd Haley or Josh McDaniel, your abilities should be immediately questioned, imo. I'm starting to think Pioli is whiffing his own fumes and thinks HE is the reason the Patriots were so great and that he can just throw any head coach in there and the team he builds will win no matter what.

Three7s
12-12-2011, 05:54 PM
I have to believe this, now.

ANd I also believe that Pioli already has the next HC in mind.

I think it will be McDaniel, and I like that idea.

McDaniel gave The Broncos, the one thing that The Chiefs have had the least of for the past three years, and that is a passing attack.

We have Orton, who he helped rack up some very impressive numbers. But, we also have Cassel, who, in my opinion, is a better QB than Orton.

I imagine that this means we will be drafting a QB, and that 2012 will be another learning experience for The Chiefs, as we get accustomed to McDaniels' (or whoever comes in) new offense.

I hope we keep Crennel at DC. So we are not rebuilding the whole thing.

We still can expect to get Charles back, and a pass-heavy offense would open a whole lot of lanes for him.

So, if we do bring in an offensive-minded HC, and continue with the defense as it is, then I think we will see results sooner than later.

I think you forgot that McDaniels wanted Cassel initially. If Pioli hires McDaniels, it means the same old squat from the QB position. No way I'm sitting through that.

McDaniels would be the worst hire because all he would be is a "Yes sir" crony.

nicfre2011
12-12-2011, 05:58 PM
I'm having my doubts as well... he'll officially be on my sh!t list if he brings in Josh McDaniel. If you rest your GM abilities on a foundation of Todd Haley or Josh McDaniel, your abilities should be immediately questioned, imo. I'm starting to think Pioli is whiffing his own fumes and thinks HE is the reason the Patriots were so great and that he can just throw any head coach in there and the team he builds will win no matter what.

I would say that my issue with Pioli is that by appearances he is determined to emulate the "Patriot Way"....the wrong way. The "Patriot Way" should be a system philosophy that isn't limited to people that were employed BY the Patriots, either as coaches or players..or by being limited consideration to coaches that a GM has worked with.

We need to build our own identity...or own legacy. And I would think the "Patriot Way" is not limited to former New England personnel...but rather can be successful if you build a team the same way. That's what first bugged me about Pioli coming in and immediately saying we are changing from a 4-3 to 3-4...before even bringing in the coaching staff or having time to evaluate the current personnel at the time. And by appearances it was because he is familar with 3-4 personnel....and IMO, a good GM has a diverse understanding of player abilities, etc. and is not limited to scouting "this type of player, or that type of player". As a GM, you hire a head coach that you feel will take the team in the right direction...which should be fielding a consistently competitive team. Let him determine the coaching staff...and then start building the team based on that...while balancing what you have on the roster to maximize their production.

Pioli seems to feel that the only way to truly emulate the "Patriot Way" is literally with former Patriots...when IMO it should be finding people whether they coach(ed) for Green Bay, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, New England, etc.

I don't think the "Patriot Way" is one set type of offense or one set defense. Bill Belichick proved that this offseason when he trashed the Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 system that granddaddy Parcells used and went with a 4-3. And on the offensive side of the ball he showed he can be innovative by going with the tight-end sets.

Pioli needs to get the memo...the "Patriot Way" is more of a state-of-mind than a physical assembling of former Patriot people...what, do they have some special mark or something? LOL

texaschief
12-12-2011, 05:59 PM
I don't think McDaniel would be any worse than Haley... they're the EXACT SAME COACH. If Pioli indeed liked what Haley was doing from a coaching standpoint, he should hire McDaniel. He's Haley without the volatile personality.

Drunker Hillbilly
12-12-2011, 06:04 PM
Make no mistake about it, Josh McDaniel will be on this teams staff as the OC or the HC. I honestly believe it is simply a matter af time before it happens. The Pioli ties are there.....

Chiefster
12-12-2011, 06:07 PM
Make no mistake about it, Josh McDaniel will be on this teams staff as the OC or the HC. I honestly believe it is simply a matter af time before it happens. The Pioli ties are there.....

OC would be fine but not HC.

texaschief
12-12-2011, 06:17 PM
I would say that my issue with Pioli is that by appearances he is determined to emulate the "Patriot Way"....the wrong way. The "Patriot Way" should be a system philosophy that isn't limited to people that were employed BY the Patriots, either as coaches or players..or by being limited consideration to coaches that a GM has worked with.

We need to build our own identity...or own legacy. And I would think the "Patriot Way" is not limited to former New England personnel...but rather can be successful if you build a team the same way. That's what first bugged me about Pioli coming in and immediately saying we are changing from a 4-3 to 3-4...before even bringing in the coaching staff or having time to evaluate the current personnel at the time. And by appearances it was because he is familar with 3-4 personnel....and IMO, a good GM has a diverse understanding of player abilities, etc. and is not limited to scouting "this type of player, or that type of player". As a GM, you hire a head coach that you feel will take the team in the right direction...which should be fielding a consistently competitive team. Let him determine the coaching staff...and then start building the team based on that...while balancing what you have on the roster to maximize their production.

Pioli seems to feel that the only way to truly emulate the "Patriot Way" is literally with former Patriots...when IMO it should be finding people whether they coach(ed) for Green Bay, Cleveland, Pittsburgh, New England, etc.

I don't think the "Patriot Way" is one set type of offense or one set defense. Bill Belichick proved that this offseason when he trashed the Fairbanks-Bullough 3-4 system that granddaddy Parcells used and went with a 4-3. And on the offensive side of the ball he showed he can be innovative by going with the tight-end sets.

Pioli needs to get the memo...the "Patriot Way" is more of a state-of-mind than a physical assembling of former Patriot people...what, do they have some special mark or something? LOL

Couldn't have said it better myself. IMO, it shows a lack of true leadership by Pioli to be able to mold this franchise into a winner if he's going to solely rely on people with Patriot ties. It's HIS responsibility to find good coaching and personnel fits for the franchise and then indoctrinate the "Chiefs way" into their brains.

Pioli seems to be trying to force square pegs into round holes. Haley shouldn't even be an OC... let alone a head coach... and that goes for most of the coaches coming out of New England... they're not ready to move up in position yet. All these other teams are so ready to pick apart the Patriot coaching staff assuming they're all ready for advancement... that's not the case. McDaniel shouldn't be a HC, Mangini, Haley, Crennel, Weis... NONE of them should be head coaches.

This Patriot obsession around the league is spreading like a virus and Kansas City is the epicenter of all the madness. I didn't think Pioli would be a good hire and it's starting to show, unfortunately.

If you go back before Pioli was hired, I was actually hoping Hunt would get the group that now currently resides in Detroit. Oh well. Like I said, I'm not giving up on Pioli. I've said before that I think a GM should be given 7-10 years before forming a definite opinion one way or the other.

Pioli has the means and ability to get out of this mess. The Chiefs are going to have one of the best records in the league next year thanks to the sudden infusion of talent and a last place schedule. All will be forgiven after a stellar 2012 season, but those who know where to look will be watching in 2013 to see if '12 was a fluke year like '10 was only because of a last place schedule... although, I'm sure there are those on this board who will think the next coach is some amazing guru because "he took a 5-11 team and took them to the playoffs the next season."

No matter who the coach is next season, don't chase the fools gold of 2012. Make the Chiefs EARN your trust and don't follow blinded by one winning season.

chiefnut
12-12-2011, 06:40 PM
i'm beginning to miss Marty & Carl

chief31
12-12-2011, 06:47 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself. IMO, it shows a lack of true leadership by Pioli to be able to mold this franchise into a winner if he's going to solely rely on people with Patriot ties. It's HIS responsibility to find good coaching and personnel fits for the franchise and then indoctrinate the "Chiefs way" into their brains.

Pioli seems to be trying to force square pegs into round holes. Haley shouldn't even be an OC... let alone a head coach... and that goes for most of the coaches coming out of New England... they're not ready to move up in position yet. All these other teams are so ready to pick apart the Patriot coaching staff assuming they're all ready for advancement... that's not the case. McDaniel shouldn't be a HC, Mangini, Haley, Crennel, Weis... NONE of them should be head coaches.

This Patriot obsession around the league is spreading like a virus and Kansas City is the epicenter of all the madness. I didn't think Pioli would be a good hire and it's starting to show, unfortunately.

If you go back before Pioli was hired, I was actually hoping Hunt would get the group that now currently resides in Detroit. Oh well. Like I said, I'm not giving up on Pioli. I've said before that I think a GM should be given 7-10 years before forming a definite opinion one way or the other.

Pioli has the means and ability to get out of this mess. The Chiefs are going to have one of the best records in the league next year thanks to the sudden infusion of talent and a last place schedule. All will be forgiven after a stellar 2012 season, but those who know where to look will be watching in 2013 to see if '12 was a fluke year like '10 was only because of a last place schedule... although, I'm sure there are those on this board who will think the next coach is some amazing guru because "he took a 5-11 team and took them to the playoffs the next season."

No matter who the coach is next season, don't chase the fools gold of 2012. Make the Chiefs EARN your trust and don't follow blinded by one winning season.

Our 2012 schedule will not be nearly as easy as 2010.

We will get Raiders (7-6) X2; Broncos (8-5) X2; Chargers (6-7) X2, Steelers (10-3), Ravens (10-3), Bengals (7-6), Browns (4-9), Saints (10-3), Falcons (8-5), Panthers (4-9), Buccaneers (4-9) and, as of now..... Colts w/Manning (0-13) and Dolphins (4-9)

103-105.

That's nine games against teams who are currently above .500, and the return of Peyton Manning.

That leaves six games against teams with losing records, who are not going to add Peyton Manning next year. And one of those has the fast-rising Cam Newton.

Not to mention, The Dolphins, who are 4-2 the last six weeks, and only one point from having gone 5-1 over that stretch.

If this team makes the playoffs against that schedule, I don't think the word "fluke" will be valid.

But, starting with a new staff, I expect to struggle for the first half of the season. So, unless the rest of our division decides to be as wishy-washy as they have been this year, and last, any shot at the playoffs could be gone by this point of 2013.

drstandley31
12-12-2011, 07:04 PM
Our 2012 schedule will not be nearly as easy as 2010.

We will get Raiders (7-6) X2; Broncos (8-5) X2; Chargers (6-7) X2, Steelers (10-3), Ravens (10-3), Bengals (7-6), Browns (4-9), Saints (10-3), Falcons (8-5), Panthers (4-9), Buccaneers (4-9) and, as of now..... Colts w/Manning (0-13) and Dolphins (4-9)

103-105.

That's nine games against teams who are currently above .500, and the return of Peyton Manning.

That leaves six games against teams with losing records, who are not going to add Peyton Manning next year. And one of those has the fast-rising Cam Newton.

Not to mention, The Dolphins, who are 4-2 the last six weeks, and only one point from having gone 5-1 over that stretch.

If this team makes the playoffs against that schedule, I don't think the word "fluke" will be valid.

But, starting with a new staff, I expect to struggle for the first half of the season. So, unless the rest of our division decides to be as wishy-washy as they have been this year, and last, any shot at the playoffs could be gone by this point of 2013.

I thought you were the blog optimist

Coach
12-12-2011, 07:04 PM
I am now officially on the Jeff Fisher bandwagon!
Jeff Fisher is the ultimate prize for all teams this offseason. I can't believe the chiefs are back in the coaching hunt! I want some someone more upbeat than Todd Haley. His monotone voice could suck the life out of a press conference.

I posted it somewhere else but fisher is our guy. A member of the xhiefs organization had mentioned it in august a catering function ky brother and i did.

Fingers crossed. And he has historically run a 4-3. That would create some interesting personel decisions......AGAIN!


I don't think McDaniel would be any worse than Haley... they're the EXACT SAME COACH. If Pioli indeed liked what Haley was doing from a coaching standpoint, he should hire McDaniel. He's Haley without the volatile personality.
Gotta agree here, Haley and McDanieks are very similar. Please dint hire Josh. There are qualified people available.

okikcfan
12-12-2011, 07:10 PM
Our 2012 schedule will not be nearly as easy as 2010.

We will get Raiders (7-6) X2; Broncos (8-5) X2; Chargers (6-7) X2, Steelers (10-3), Ravens (10-3), Bengals (7-6), Browns (4-9), Saints (10-3), Falcons (8-5), Panthers (4-9), Buccaneers (4-9) and, as of now..... Colts w/Manning (0-13) and Dolphins (4-9)

103-105.

That's nine games against teams who are currently above .500, and the return of Peyton Manning.

That leaves six games against teams with losing records, who are not going to add Peyton Manning next year. And one of those has the fast-rising Cam Newton.

Not to mention, The Dolphins, who are 4-2 the last six weeks, and only one point from having gone 5-1 over that stretch.

If this team makes the playoffs against that schedule, I don't think the word "fluke" will be valid.

But, starting with a new staff, I expect to struggle for the first half of the season. So, unless the rest of our division decides to be as wishy-washy as they have been this year, and last, any shot at the playoffs could be gone by this point of 2013.


Yea well they fired their HC too! I must say I just got home and I was somewhat suprised by what I heard. Not shocked, but suprised. Now what is funny is all the names people like williamson and them are coming up with. McDaniels? I just dont see that at all, He did not do well in Denver and he's not doing so good now. This is just a wait and see and hope for the best. Time to move on.....:whipping1:

kcnation
12-12-2011, 07:15 PM
i can't believe im seeing people say why did we get rid of haley?they are also saying i will miss him,oh he did a good job,we shoulda gave him another year,...are you kidding me,this cancer ruined our team this year.palko should have never been on the football field,better yet he should have never been on the roster,.haley did not get along with his players either,ive been to enough games the last two years to see that.if your players hate you they are not going to play for you.he is not a head coach for sure,and don't expect cowher to be here either,he would go to a more built team than a messed up team like the chiefs.i just hope we get someone decent for our next head coach

chief31
12-12-2011, 07:19 PM
i can't believe im seeing people say why did we get rid of haley?they are also saying i will miss him,oh he did a good job,we shoulda gave him another year,...are you kidding me,this cancer ruined our team this year.palko should have never been on the football field,better yet he should have never been on the roster,.haley did not get along with his players either,ive been to enough games the last two years to see that.if your players hate you they are not going to play for you.he is not a head coach for sure,and don't expect cowher to be here either,he would go to a more built team than a messed up team like the chiefs.i just hope we get someone decent for our next head coach

10-6, then 5-11, without his most important players?

He did a good job, record-wise.

texaschief
12-12-2011, 07:20 PM
Our 2012 schedule will not be nearly as easy as 2010.

We will get Raiders (7-6) X2; Broncos (8-5) X2; Chargers (6-7) X2, Steelers (10-3), Ravens (10-3), Bengals (7-6), Browns (4-9), Saints (10-3), Falcons (8-5), Panthers (4-9), Buccaneers (4-9) and, as of now..... Colts w/Manning (0-13) and Dolphins (4-9)

103-105.

That's nine games against teams who are currently above .500, and the return of Peyton Manning.

That leaves six games against teams with losing records, who are not going to add Peyton Manning next year. And one of those has the fast-rising Cam Newton.

Not to mention, The Dolphins, who are 4-2 the last six weeks, and only one point from having gone 5-1 over that stretch.

If this team makes the playoffs against that schedule, I don't think the word "fluke" will be valid.

But, starting with a new staff, I expect to struggle for the first half of the season. So, unless the rest of our division decides to be as wishy-washy as they have been this year, and last, any shot at the playoffs could be gone by this point of 2013.



You're absolutely right... there's no way a schedule can get ANY easier than it was last season... which, only underscores what a fraud this team was last year and how ineffective Haley is as a head coach.

chief31
12-12-2011, 07:22 PM
You're absolutely right... there's no way a schedule can get ANY easier than it was last season... which, only underscores what a fraud this team was last year and how ineffective Haley is as a head coach.

Fraud is an exaggeration.

Even going 10-6 against all last place teams means you are better than last place teams.

And they were far better than Herm's team.

jap1
12-12-2011, 07:24 PM
OC would be fine but not HC.

I am semi ok with this. Put him at OC and put someone proven at HC. If we did that, it would mean keeping pretty much the same offense (so smaller learning curve for current players) and that we would probably keep Cassel. Do I think Cassel is a God, NO. But I think an improvement in our OL would be a much better investment in the long-term.

The weakest position on this team is ... by far ... the OL. If we are going for an OL, we might be able to trade down a few picks for someone who is QB hungry (Miami, Seattle, Jax, Washington) and end up with two 1st round picks: one in the middle and one in the end of the 1st round. We could probably get a day 1 starter at OL AND any other position out of OL, ILB, NT, FS, CB. Then we would still have the rest of our draft to pick up SOLID depth.

drstandley31
12-12-2011, 07:26 PM
I don't understand looking at a schedule and worrying about how hard it's going to be, based on what you know today. Too many things change. We thought this year's schedule was going to be so awful, and it was the "easy" teams that spanked us. We did lose to Pittsburgh, but that was close. Beat the Bears. Those were part of the Hard stretch. We tanked in the beginning of the season with the so called cupcakes. You can't look at next year's schedule had have any clue how those teams are going to be at the time we play them. I remember Herm pi$$ing down his leg when he had to open against the Bears who went to the super bowl the year before. And they ended up sucking that year, and we lost because Herm didn't think he could win. So BS to the hard schedule talk.

matthewschiefs
12-12-2011, 07:32 PM
You're absolutely right... there's no way a schedule can get ANY easier than it was last season... which, only underscores what a fraud this team was last year and how ineffective Haley is as a head coach.

While I 100% agree with the Fireing of Todd Haley I refuse to say last year was a fluke in anyway to this day. Todd Haley did a good job last season. This was the best team in the divison last season. We had the NFC west yes but so did the WHOLE divison. We beat them others didn't we won the divison based on the common oppents. Todd Haley deserves credit for that. I will not discount what he did last season. This years been anther story. The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league. And Lately Haley has been horrible. He should have been fired for what has happend this year. But Don't discount what he did do last year.

jap1
12-12-2011, 07:34 PM
Jeff Fisher is the ultimate prize for all teams this offseason. I can't believe the chiefs are back in the coaching hunt! I want some someone more upbeat than Todd Haley. His monotone voice could suck the life out of a press conference.


Fingers crossed. And he has historically run a 4-3. That would create some interesting personel decisions......AGAIN!


Gotta agree here, Haley and McDanieks are very similar. Please dint hire Josh. There are qualified people available.
Not sure it would really cause that many problems. I think our front 4 would easily make the transition.

The DL would be: Hali, TJ, Dorsey, and Houston or Gilberry. All of those guys played in the 4-3 in college, and TJ and Dorsey supposedly would be better suited for that offense.

The LB would be the problems. DJ could go back to being an OLB in the 4-3, where he has spent most of his career. Belcher/Siler (I think he is a FA)/Williams at ILB. Then the only real question mark is who would be the other OLB Studebaker? Sheffield? A new Free agent or draft pick?

chief31
12-12-2011, 07:37 PM
While I 100% agree with the Fireing of Todd Haley I refuse to say last year was a fluke in anyway to this day. Todd Haley did a good job last season. This was the best team in the divison last season. We had the NFC west yes but so did the WHOLE divison. We beat them others didn't we won the divison based on the common oppents. Todd Haley deserves credit for that. I will not discount what he did last season. This years been anther story. The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league. And Lately Haley has been horrible. He should have been fired for what has happend this year. But Don't discount what he did do last year.

And the "what have you done for me lately" teams tend to suck for a very long time.

When you fire guys every other season, and start over with the next guy, you suck.

Oh yes.... Tell me all about Jim Harbaugh, and the other very rare exceptions.

But, when you change coaching staffs frequently, you better be expecting to get lots of high draft picks.

I hope we are planning on giving our next HC a better chance than what Haley got.

texaschief
12-12-2011, 07:58 PM
Fraud is an exaggeration.

Even going 10-6 against all last place teams means you are better than last place teams.

And they were far better than Herm's team.



yeah... means you're average AT BEST.

This IS Herm's team... his INCOMPLETE team. My argument for Edwards has less to do with his coaching ability and more to do with the fact that his plan was a good one and never got a chance to reap the rewards of a labor intensive rebuild that HE started. The entire foundation this team is built upon was drafted and developed by Herm. Whether you acknowledge it or not doesn't matter... it's a fact, regardless. The 2008 and 2011 drafts are the kinds of drafts this team needs to build around. Hopefully, Pioli and co. can pull another 2011 type draft out of their hat and bring even more talent to this squad for next season.

I see all the moaning and bellyaching about the Chiefs not spending any money in free agency. I think that's a good thing. While I believe good free agent signings can be had to help for the long-term, they are few and far between and this team isn't in a win-now mode and shouldn't be spending on high-priced free agents. The plan to rebuild this team through the draft is still a good one and should be continued. This team isn't ready to compete and Todd Haley isn't the coach needed to develop these young players. Over the last year or so, we've begun to see this "build through the draft" approach pay dividends through the likes of Hali, Charles, Flowers, Carr, Berry, etc etc. Next year, we're going to see Houston, Baldwin, Hudson, Bailey, and Powe all be in position to take steps forward in their development as well.

The plan implemented by Herm Edwards is a sound one. No, Edwards isn't the only good talent evaluator in the league, but that doesn't mean his plan wasn't a good idea. Pioli can execute this plan. Hunt hired Pioli with the intention to continue rebuilding through the draft.

This team needs a head coach with an extensive resume of player development... ESPECIALLY at the QB position... or at least a guy who's willing to surround himself with good coaches.

... and Chiefs fans need to be patient and stop chasing fool's gold.

texaschief
12-12-2011, 08:00 PM
While I 100% agree with the Fireing of Todd Haley I refuse to say last year was a fluke in anyway to this day. Todd Haley did a good job last season. This was the best team in the divison last season. We had the NFC west yes but so did the WHOLE divison. We beat them others didn't we won the divison based on the common oppents. Todd Haley deserves credit for that. I will not discount what he did last season. This years been anther story. The NFL is a what have you done for me lately league. And Lately Haley has been horrible. He should have been fired for what has happend this year. But Don't discount what he did do last year.

10 wins... 9 of them against teams with losing records. A perfect storm of players developing and perhaps the easiest schedule this league has seen in years=fluke... ESPECIALLY with Haley as the HC.

matthewschiefs
12-12-2011, 08:06 PM
And the "what have you done for me lately" teams tend to suck for a very long time.

When you fire guys every other season, and start over with the next guy, you suck.

Oh yes.... Tell me all about Jim Harbaugh, and the other very rare exceptions.

But, when you change coaching staffs frequently, you better be expecting to get lots of high draft picks.

I hope we are planning on giving our next HC a better chance than what Haley got.



How many times does a coach have to not do his job of getting a team ready to play before he gets a "fair shot"
Blame injuries EVERY TEAM HAS INJURIES. It's part of football. The packers had TONS of injuries last season WON THE SUPERBOWL. Injuries don't stop you from competing this team WAS NOT COMPETEING. He got a fair shot. If you don't do your job almost 40% of the time and your fired you got a fair shot. Haley earned his pink slip. We are not the raiders who fire coaches even when they are improving. This was a team that wasn't showing up. Haley had a chance. He didn't do enough to keep his job. Injuries or not he deserved to get fired.

texaschief
12-12-2011, 08:06 PM
And the "what have you done for me lately" teams tend to suck for a very long time.

When you fire guys every other season, and start over with the next guy, you suck.

Oh yes.... Tell me all about Jim Harbaugh, and the other very rare exceptions.

But, when you change coaching staffs frequently, you better be expecting to get lots of high draft picks.

I hope we are planning on giving our next HC a better chance than what Haley got.

I agree with this... except the last sentence.

I hope our next HC DESERVES a better chance. Hell, you even documented all the issues he had with players as soon as he got here. Forget the Chiefs record. My issues with him have almost NOTHING to do with the Chiefs record this year. Think about all the eyebrow raising BS you've read about Haley since he got here. It's NOT about Xs and Os as much as he's just an a$$hole who doesn't DESERVE to be given the benefit of the doubt considering his track record. If his attitude were different, I would probably be right there with you defending him... but if you're honest with yourself and you sat down and listed all the pros and cons of Todd Haley as the head coach of this team, you'll see why he no longer has a job at Arrowhead.

AkChief49
12-12-2011, 08:08 PM
Heck, I've been more than patient. I'll continue to root for my Chiefs. Whatever they do, this time I hope they do their due diligence and get it right. Pioli is on thin ice with me. His next HC hire better prove worthy because he will not be able to hide behind two bad coaching decisions!

matthewschiefs
12-12-2011, 08:10 PM
10 wins... 9 of them against teams with losing records. A perfect storm of players developing and perhaps the easiest schedule this league has seen in years=fluke... ESPECIALLY with Haley as the HC.

Chiefs 4-0 against the NFC west

Everyone eles 2-2 THAT's WHERE THE divison was won. The Chiefs earned that AFC west title and haley was a part of that. This year hes sucked but last year he did a good job,

drstandley31
12-12-2011, 08:10 PM
And the "what have you done for me lately" teams tend to suck for a very long time.

When you fire guys every other season, and start over with the next guy, you suck.

Oh yes.... Tell me all about Jim Harbaugh, and the other very rare exceptions.

But, when you change coaching staffs frequently, you better be expecting to get lots of high draft picks.

I hope we are planning on giving our next HC a better chance than what Haley got.

I agree with your concept that you need consistancy. We did not have that with Haley. He could not get along with his coaching staff, which is why we have a different OC every year. And therefore have the same problem with him or without him. Let's get a coach that understands leadership, coaching and build a long term successful organization.

Bike
12-12-2011, 08:12 PM
Pioli is most likely on a short leash himself. He screwed up. He brought in the wrong HC for this team. If he did it once - he can certainly do it again.

texaschief
12-12-2011, 08:12 PM
Not sure it would really cause that many problems. I think our front 4 would easily make the transition.

The DL would be: Hali, TJ, Dorsey, and Houston or Gilberry. All of those guys played in the 4-3 in college, and TJ and Dorsey supposedly would be better suited for that offense.

The LB would be the problems. DJ could go back to being an OLB in the 4-3, where he has spent most of his career. Belcher/Siler (I think he is a FA)/Williams at ILB. Then the only real question mark is who would be the other OLB Studebaker? Sheffield? A new Free agent or draft pick?

Yeah, I don't think a move back to a 4-3 would be that big of a deal. After 3 offseasons, the Chiefs STILL don't have a good NT... which, should have been priority #1 once they made the decision. They've done very little to mold the defense into a 3-4 specific defense. Whether they stay in 3-4 or revert to the 4-3, the LBs need to be upgraded regardless.

texaschief
12-12-2011, 08:14 PM
Chiefs 4-0 against the NFC west

Everyone eles 2-2 THAT's WHERE THE divison was won. The Chiefs earned that AFC west title and haley was a part of that. This year hes sucked but last year he did a good job,

Thank you for proving my point. What was the best record in the NFC West last year again? Other teams falling on their face against a weak division isn't to the credit of Todd Haley.

texaschief
12-12-2011, 08:15 PM
I agree with your concept that you need consistancy. We did not have that with Haley. He could not get along with his coaching staff, which is why we have a different OC every year. And therefore have the same problem with him or without him. Let's get a coach that understands leadership, coaching and build a long term successful organization.

Great post.

PawnshopMarimba
12-12-2011, 08:19 PM
Yeah, exactly. Haley couldn't keep his hand out of the cookie jar in regards to the offensive play calling. His fingerprints were all over the game. He never could accept that he can't micro manage the team like that, and so he chased away two great OCs. Jesus, I'd take Weiss, Crennel and ANY HC over Muir and Haley.

jap1
12-12-2011, 08:19 PM
Yeah, I don't think a move back to a 4-3 would be that big of a deal. After 3 offseasons, the Chiefs STILL don't have a good NT... which, should have been priority #1 once they made the decision. They've done very little to mold the defense into a 3-4 specific defense. Whether they stay in 3-4 or revert to the 4-3, the LBs need to be upgraded regardless.

I am not a proponent of using big name FA to improve the team ... except when you are one or two players away from being great, or to fill a small need that suddenly arose from a player leaving the team (due to FA or career ending injury). Otherwise FA should be used for maintaining depth, IMO.

For that reason, I think (no matter what defense we go to) we need to pick up some LBs. If we stay 3-4, we need to get a GOOD and young ILB. If we go 4-3, then we could use an ILB, and maybe an OLB.

matthewschiefs
12-12-2011, 08:20 PM
Thank you for proving my point. What was the best record in the NFC West last year again? Other teams falling on their face against a weak division isn't to the credit of Todd Haley.

Or it could mean that games are not played on paper.

The Chargers had the Number 1 offense and defense in the NFL last season. On paper we had no shot to beat them last season we did. Every win in the NFL is earned. NO MATTER WHO YOU PLAY.

texaschief
12-12-2011, 08:22 PM
I am not a proponent of using big name FA to improve the team ... except when you are one or two players away from being great, or to fill a small need that suddenly arose from a player leaving the team (due to FA or career ending injury). Otherwise FA should be used for maintaining depth, IMO.

For that reason, I think (no matter what defense we go to) we need to pick up some LBs. If we stay 3-4, we need to get a GOOD and young ILB. If we go 4-3, then we could use an ILB, and maybe an OLB.

Burfict... check him out.

I'd only want him if we traded down and got more than 1 first round pick though.

texaschief
12-12-2011, 08:28 PM
Or it could mean that games are not played on paper.

The Chargers had the Number 1 offense and defense in the NFL last season. On paper we had no shot to beat them last season we did. Every win in the NFL is earned. NO MATTER WHO YOU PLAY.

Right... so, you're saying there's no difference between "earning" a win over a losing team as oppose to a winning team?

Like I've said before... we saw what they did against teams at or above .500 during their last two games last season.... FULLY HEALTHY. THOSE were the games you should be hanging your Todd Haley hat on if they had won and still fired him... not wins against sub .500 teams. If you TRULY believe this team was legit last season, then there are absolutely ZERO excuses for Todd Haley's performance during those last 2 weeks. At least calling this team a fraud gives Haley an out for those games because in fact, the team WAS NOT ready to compete at that level. Period.

chief31
12-12-2011, 08:31 PM
yeah... means you're average AT BEST.

This IS Herm's team...

Make up your mind....

Is this Herm's team, and only good because of Herm, or is it an average, at best, team, which suggests that Herm's team is average, AT BEST?

Todd Haley took the players that Herm could not win with, and he won with them.

EVen this season, with the vast injury situation, Haley has gotten more out of this team than Herm did.


10 wins... 9 of them against teams with losing records. A perfect storm of players developing and perhaps the easiest schedule this league has seen in years=fluke... ESPECIALLY with Haley as the HC.

7 of the 10 wins were against teams with losing records.




How many times does a coach have to not do his job of getting a team ready to play before he gets a "fair shot"
Blame injuries EVERY TEAM HAS INJURIES. It's part of football. The packers had TONS of injuries last season WON THE SUPERBOWL. Injuries don't stop you from competing this team WAS NOT COMPETEING. He got a fair shot. If you don't do your job almost 40% of the time and your fired you got a fair shot. Haley earned his pink slip. We are not the raiders who fire coaches even when they are improving. This was a team that wasn't showing up. Haley had a chance. He didn't do enough to keep his job. Injuries or not he deserved to get fired.

"EVERY TEAM HAS INJURIES."

What's with all the caps?

Are you angry?

Look, every team has injuries.

Not every team has injuries to their top stars. And it is exceptionally rare to win when you do.

This team has done far better than before Haley got here, just this season, and that is in spite of the fact that the glue that holds his offense together was taken away.


I agree with this... except the last sentence.

I hope our next HC DESERVES a better chance. Hell, you even documented all the issues he had with players as soon as he got here. Forget the Chiefs record. My issues with him have almost NOTHING to do with the Chiefs record this year. Think about all the eyebrow raising BS you've read about Haley since he got here. It's NOT about Xs and Os as much as he's just an a$ who doesn't DESERVE to be given the benefit of the doubt considering his track record. If his attitude were different, I would probably be right there with you defending him... but if you're honest with yourself and you sat down and listed all the pros and cons of Todd Haley as the head coach of this team, you'll see why he no longer has a job at Arrowhead.

I have no problem making note of Haley's problems.

I was as hard on him as you are, when he was doing all of that fit-throwing in '09.

I think he made a huge blunder by thinking he already had a power running game, that just needed some tweaking.

I think he made a huge mistake by not demanding a LOT from the draft.

I think his "backup plan" for the offense was non-existent.

I think he was a fool for the way he has handled the OC situation.

But the fact remains that he has gotten far more out of this team than he should have, considering the circumstances.

Some people are just irrationally quick to judge.

You are not generally one of those people.

But, I think you refused to concede when Todd Haley made you look bad by winning ten games, soft schedule, or not.

I think you had already invested some sort of a personal stake in it, and were prepared to hold on to it, no matter what.

Win/loss wise, has Todd Haley done a good job, with the hand he was dealt?

As for being an a**hole.....

Bill Bellichick is an a**hole. I don't think anybody denies that. And Haley was, at the very least, hiding his a**hole from the public the past two years.

I think you are right. I think it was his inability to get along with his co-workers that was his undoing. But I think it was, specifically, his inability to get along with one co-worker, in particular. That being his boss, Scott Pioli.

jap1
12-12-2011, 08:34 PM
Burfict... check him out.

I'd only want him if we traded down and got more than 1 first round pick though.
The only way I am ok with that isif we used the other 1st round pick on a LOT, but I dont think there will be a starting LT available. And then got a RT or G in FA. I think it will be easier to get an ILB in FA than it will be to improve the OL in FA.

I would even be ok with not improving the LBs, but only if we made significant improvements on the OL. A good OL can hide a LOT of weaknesses on both sides of the ball.

Good LTs in free agency either dont leave their team, or are RTs that get overhyped and want LT money, and then perform poorly.

chief31
12-12-2011, 08:51 PM
The only way I am ok with that isif we used the other 1st round pick on a LOT, but I dont think there will be a starting LT available. And then got a RT or G in FA. I think it will be easier to get an ILB in FA than it will be to improve the OL in FA.

I would even be ok with not improving the LBs, but only if we made significant improvements on the OL. A good OL can hide a LOT of weaknesses on both sides of the ball.

Good LTs in free agency either dont leave their team, or are RTs that get overhyped and want LT money, and then perform poorly.

I am tellin' ya..... If we were to get a bonafide LOT, Albert would be amazing at ROT, or on the inside.

We get that spot filled like that, and the need for one of those other positions dissolves.

jap1
12-12-2011, 08:53 PM
I am tellin' ya..... If we were to get a bonafide LOT, Albert would be amazing at ROT, or on the inside.

We get that spot filled like that, and the need for one of those other positions dissolves.

Which is why I want to draft Reiff or Martin in the first round. Then pick up either an elite guard or an elite RT in the 2nd round or Free Agency and put Albert at the position left over. I think with that you now have a dominant offensive line.

Bike
12-12-2011, 08:57 PM
Which is why I want to draft Reiff or Martin in the first round. Then pick up either an elite guard or an elite RT in the 2nd round or Free Agency and put Albert at the position left over. I think with that you now have a dominant offensive line.
Yeah - but can be quite difficult to find elite offensive linemen in free agency. Teams tend to hold on to their good OL. We need to build our ol in next years draft imo...

AkChief49
12-12-2011, 08:57 PM
I am tellin' ya..... If we were to get a bonafide LOT, Albert would be amazing at ROT, or on the inside.

We get that spot filled like that, and the need for one of those other positions dissolves.
This is and always has been #1 on my Christmas list! but I swear it's like beating a :beat_DeadHorse::beat_DeadHorse::beat_DeadHorse::D

chief31
12-12-2011, 08:59 PM
Which is why I want to draft Reiff or Martin in the first round. Then pick up either an elite guard or an elite RT in the 2nd round or Free Agency and put Albert at the position left over. I think with that you now have a dominant offensive line.

Well, I am not against it. I just think it might be overkill on the o-line.

Don't forget that Lilja still has his strong points. I think a high end LOT gives us one of the sturdiest o-lines in The NFL.

I'd be thrilled to fill all five and see Lilja fighting off a rookie for his starting spot.

It would even give us the luxury of breaking in the rookie LOT on the right side, while he proves his worth.

Maybe I have just become so accustomed to being let down, while begging for a true LOT, that I have lowered my expectations, as far as drafting O-line.

:lol:

chief31
12-12-2011, 09:00 PM
This is and always has been #1 on my Christmas list! but I swear it's like beating a :beat_DeadHorse::beat_DeadHorse::beat_DeadHorse::D

You and me, both!!!!

texaschief
12-12-2011, 09:02 PM
Make up your mind....

Is this Herm's team, and only good because of Herm, or is it an average, at best, team, which suggests that Herm's team is average, AT BEST?

Todd Haley took the players that Herm could not win with, and he won with them.

EVen this season, with the vast injury situation, Haley has gotten more out of this team than Herm did.

This team is average and I've never said they're MORE than that. I HAVE however said the foundation this team is built on (aka the good PLAYERS) are Herm's doing. Again, you're acting like these players were playing at a professional level as SOON as they got in the league. If it worked that way... why the hell do they need coaches? Why does the term "player development" exist? These players needed time to develop into regular NFL caliber players. Very few rookies come in and play at the level Flowers, Carr, Hali, Albert, Charles, and Bowe are currently playing at... and to expect this level of play from players as soon as they're drafted is a COMPLETELY out of touch view on players and their abilities at different times in their careers.

7 of the 10 wins were against teams with losing records.



SD- 9-7
Cle- 5-11
SF- 6-10
JAX- 8-8
BUF- 4-12
ARZ-5-11
SEA-7-9
DEN 4-12
STL 7-9
TEN 6-10

Not sure what you're looking at. The ONLY win we had against a winning team was against a slow starting SD team who didn't know how to tackle on special teams... who we later lost to. But you're kinda right... JAX wasn't a losing team... technically. But we all see what a juggernaut they are THIS season.

"EVERY TEAM HAS INJURIES."

What's with all the caps?

Are you angry?

Look, every team has injuries.

Not every team has injuries to their top stars. And it is exceptionally rare to win when you do.

This team has done far better than before Haley got here, just this season, and that is in spite of the fact that the glue that holds his offense together was taken away.



I have no problem making note of Haley's problems.

I was as hard on him as you are, when he was doing all of that fit-throwing in '09.

I think he made a huge blunder by thinking he already had a power running game, that just needed some tweaking.

I think he made a huge mistake by not demanding a LOT from the draft.

I think his "backup plan" for the offense was non-existent.

I think he was a fool for the way he has handled the OC situation.

But the fact remains that he has gotten far more out of this team than he should have, considering the circumstances.

There's ABSOLUTELY NO WAY we are EVER going to agree on this point. I think ANY other OC would've gotten more out of this team than Haley has and even though it was against a soft schedule, Weiss proved that point last season. The fact that he refuses to put good coordinators in place speaks to the very heart of why he's such a HORRIBLE head coach. Look at all the crap you just listed. Instead of listing all the bad things he brings to the table, please.... for the love of God... list all the positives. Vague statements like "he has gotten far more out of this team than he should have" is like democrats saying they "saved countless jobs by passing the stimulus".... there's absolutely NO WAY to measure "jobs saved." By saying they "saved jobs" they don't have to be measured by "jobs created." Same thing applies here. SHOW me the positives he brings that outweigh the negatives.

Some people are just irrationally quick to judge.

You are not generally one of those people.

You're right... I'm NOT quick to judge... which SHOULD tell you something.

But, I think you refused to concede when Todd Haley made you look bad by winning ten games, soft schedule, or not.

I was excited as anyone last year about us winning... but I, like many other people have or SHOULD do, is take a step back and figure out WHY that happened?

I think you had already invested some sort of a personal stake in it, and were prepared to hold on to it, no matter what.

Win/loss wise, has Todd Haley done a good job, with the hand he was dealt?

I have no stake. If things were working out with Haley, I'd be right there with you defending him and probably saying I was wrong about him in the beginning. I was on the verge of saying that a couple times last season... but, like you said, I'm not quick to judge.

As for being an a**hole.....

Bill Bellichick is an a**hole. I don't think anybody denies that. And Haley was, at the very least, hiding his a**hole from the public the past two years.

Great... he's an a-hole... but he does other things that allow him that flexibility. Todd Haley hasn't EARNED the right to be that kind of a coach. Quick, over the last 4 years, how many times do you hear about Belichick belittling his players or see him cussing them out on the sidelines? How many OCs and DCs has he surrounded himself with? The guy is a GREAT head coach... Todd Haley is not.

I think you are right. I think it was his inability to get along with his co-workers that was his undoing. But I think it was, specifically, his inability to get along with one co-worker, in particular. That being his boss, Scott Pioli.

All of which are just MORE aspects of the head coaching position at which he failed.



I'd just LOVE to see a pros list... ESPECIALLY if it outweighed the cons.

Chiefster
12-12-2011, 09:23 PM
I am semi ok with this. Put him at OC and put someone proven at HC. If we did that, it would mean keeping pretty much the same offense (so smaller learning curve for current players) and that we would probably keep Cassel. Do I think Cassel is a God, NO. But I think an improvement in our OL would be a much better investment in the long-term.

The weakest position on this team is ... by far ... the OL. If we are going for an OL, we might be able to trade down a few picks for someone who is QB hungry (Miami, Seattle, Jax, Washington) and end up with two 1st round picks: one in the middle and one in the end of the 1st round. We could probably get a day 1 starter at OL AND any other position out of OL, ILB, NT, FS, CB. Then we would still have the rest of our draft to pick up SOLID depth.

...And, not to mention the fact that a consistent figure at OC would go a long way, in my opinion, towards a consistent, positive offense.

chief31
12-12-2011, 09:36 PM
Again, you're acting like these players were playing at a professional level as SOON as they got in the league. If it worked that way... why the hell do they need coaches?

Like Todd Haley? WHo managed to get those players to a division crown, and managed to win five, of thirteen games, without the elite Charles, and a number of his other top talents?

That's right.

You are so fast to gather all of the glory for Herm, yet you willfully neglect that it was Todd Haley who got them to perform.


7 of the 10 wins were against teams with losing records.



SD- 9-7
Cle- 5-11
SF- 6-10
JAX- 8-8
BUF- 4-12
ARZ-5-11
SEA-7-9
DEN 4-12
STL 7-9
TEN 6-10

Oh yeah. We didn't get a win against The Raiders, and The Seahawks only beat The Saints in the playoffs, giving the illusion that they were a decent team.

So, we were both off by one.

Mistakes happen.:D


But you're kinda right... JAX wasn't a losing team... technically. But we all see what a juggernaut they are THIS season.

Oh, you meant to base that off of their 2011 records?

How about The Broncos? We beat them in 201o, and they are not a losing team now.

And I guess that makes the 49 win pretty darn impressive, eh?

Look, I agree that we had a very soft schedule in 2010. It is a very big reason that I expected a losing season this year.

I was just pointing out that you made a one game error, and it happened to not be an error against your claims.


There's ABSOLUTELY NO WAY we are EVER going to agree on this point. I think ANY other OC would've gotten more out of this team than Haley has and even though it was against a soft schedule, Weiss proved that point last season.

A.) I agree, kind of.... Most would get a little bit more. But not a lot.

B.) How does Weiss, who is a very highly respected OC, make the case that any old schmuck could do it?

C.) Weiss had the help of an amazing performance, by a very special talent, in Jamaal Charles.

Surely you can see why Weiss, with Charles and Cassel, does not prove the point you are trying to make.


After all of that, you quoted every word except the bold-faced question I posed to you.....

As far as wins and losses, has Todd Haley done a good job, with the hand he has been dealt?

Meaning, taking over a 2-14 team, and taking into consideration how big a part JC played to the 2010 offense, being gone for the year in 2011?

The presonailty issues, which seem to have been his eventual downfall, were well hidden since 2009.

To suggest now, that that is why he deserved to be fired, after you had already made that choice, prior to the outing of the issues with his attitude doesn't seem all that honest.

And I continue to believe that you have some sort of stake in this whole affair, as you were specifically upset with Herm being fired, and became very scarce while Haley was successful, only to return with a vengeance, when Haley gets fired.

As I said, you are usually a very level-headed guy, in your football talk.

But I have seen you stray from that norm, as we all do. And I think you are here to proclaim a big "I TOLD YOU SO".

You don't think that is factoring in, at all?

:D

GoHardorGoHome
12-12-2011, 09:56 PM
Well, I am not against it. I just think it might be overkill on the o-line.

Don't forget that Lilja still has his strong points. I think a high end LOT gives us one of the sturdiest o-lines in The NFL.

I'd be thrilled to fill all five and see Lilja fighting off a rookie for his starting spot.

It would even give us the luxury of breaking in the rookie LOT on the right side, while he proves his worth.

Maybe I have just become so accustomed to being let down, while begging for a true LOT, that I have lowered my expectations, as far as drafting O-line.

:lol:

What if we were to go after a QB with our 1st pick and even trade up if necessary to get RGIII? I predicted his Heisman and as a Mobile QB, he is extremely accurate with the deep ball (best I've seen in years).

I'm a Sooners fan and I predicted our demise at the hands of RGIII. I've been watchin' this kid for 3 yrs and he's the real deal. Amazing leader and great poise in the pocket. We may have a shot at him, but I think he will be gone by the time we get to him.

If, in fact we drafted a mobile QB it would give us time to finalize our line and still make plays out of the pocket and convert those 3rd downs that we NEVER convert.

THAT, my fellow chiefs, is how you keep your Defense healthy and off the #@$! field! a great part of the game!

Seriously, it's getting really hard to watch our offense.......because there is NONE. Pretty bad with all the weapons we have in the killer B's. We do need a legit #2 back. TJ has to go. Why aren't we using McClain at TB some?

texaschief
12-12-2011, 10:10 PM
Like Todd Haley? WHo managed to get those players to a division crown, and managed to win five, of thirteen games, without the elite Charles, and a number of his other top talents?

That's right.

You are so fast to gather all of the glory for Herm, yet you willfully neglect that it was Todd Haley who got them to perform.

You HONESTLY think Haley was solely responsible for the development of EVERY SINGLE PLAYER Edwards drafted? wow

Oh yeah. We didn't get a win against The Raiders, and The Seahawks only beat The Saints in the playoffs, giving the illusion that they were a decent team.

So, we were both off by one.

Mistakes happen.:D

unfortunately

Oh, you meant to base that off of their 2011 records?

How about The Broncos? We beat them in 201o, and they are not a losing team now.

And I guess that makes the 49 win pretty darn impressive, eh?

Look, I agree that we had a very soft schedule in 2010. It is a very big reason that I expected a losing season this year.

I was just pointing out that you made a one game error, and it happened to not be an error against your claims.



A.) I agree, kind of.... Most would get a little bit more. But not a lot.

B.) How does Weiss, who is a very highly respected OC, make the case that any old schmuck could do it?

C.) Weiss had the help of an amazing performance, by a very special talent, in Jamaal Charles.

Surely you can see why Weiss, with Charles and Cassel, does not prove the point you are trying to make.

Haley had that same combination the year before... and since Haley was solely responsible for the development of those players, by your reasoning, the offense SHOULD have been just as great in '09 as it was in '10.


After all of that, you quoted every word except the bold-faced question I posed to you.....

As far as wins and losses, has Todd Haley done a good job, with the hand he has been dealt?

Meaning, taking over a 2-14 team, and taking into consideration how big a part JC played to the 2010 offense, being gone for the year in 2011?

The presonailty issues, which seem to have been his eventual downfall, were well hidden since 2009.

To suggest now, that that is why he deserved to be fired, after you had already made that choice, prior to the outing of the issues with his attitude doesn't seem all that honest.

All season during 2009 you saw youtube video after video surface of Haley cussing someone out. Hunt told him to knock it off in 2010 and we didn't see many issues, but it came back in a huge way this season and to think it ever went away behind the scenes is just naive.

And I continue to believe that you have some sort of stake in this whole affair, as you were specifically upset with Herm being fired, and became very scarce while Haley was successful, only to return with a vengeance, when Haley gets fired.

Little distracted last year, having twins will do that to you. I just happen to be off today and the girls are with their grandparents. Finally got a day to myself and I've enjoyed not doing much but talking Chiefs football all day. Is it ok if I go pick out a Christmas tree with my family? I might be away a little while... :D

As I said, you are usually a very level-headed guy, in your football talk.

But I have seen you stray from that norm, as we all do. And I think you are here to proclaim a big "I TOLD YOU SO".

You don't think that is factoring in, at all?

:D

...oh, and I DID TELL YOU SO

As soon as all the BS with Gonzo and Waters happened, I already knew he was going to be a poor head coach...

... and said as much here on Feb 27, 2009: wow... now we need to replace Waters!! - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7201)

This guy's attitude since he got here has been horrid. Any monkey humpin a coconut could've won 10 games with our schedule last season.

Chiefster
12-12-2011, 11:09 PM
Text of Todd Haley statement
The former Chiefs coach released a statement through his agent. It reads:
“First, I would like to thank Clark Hunt and the kansas city chiefs for giving me the opportunity to coach this historic franchise. Growing up in the NFL, watching my Dad help build those great Pittsburgh Steeler teams, I have a profound love for this league. This opportunity has been a dream come true.
“I would like to sincerely thank my coaches and my players for their commitment and loyalty throughout my time with the Chiefs.
“I would like to thank all of the great Chiefs fans. My wife, Chrissy, and I would also like to thank the city of Kansas City for welcoming us and our five children and making us feel at home.
“I am proud to have been a part of continued improvement and the first AFC West title since 2003. This year has been extremely challenging, but despite losing several key players to injury and free agency, we have been able to remain competitive and remain in contention with three games remaining in the season. I wish the coaches and players good luck down the stretch.
“NFL football is extremely competitive. Being hired and fired is part of this business. I want to thank everyone for their support and I look forward to my next opportunity in this great league."


Text of Todd Haley statement | Red Zone (http://chiefsblog.kansascity.com/?q=node%2F1906)

jap1
12-12-2011, 11:11 PM
What if we were to go after a QB with our 1st pick and even trade up if necessary to get RGIII? I predicted his Heisman and as a Mobile QB, he is extremely accurate with the deep ball (best I've seen in years).

I'm a Sooners fan and I predicted our demise at the hands of RGIII. I've been watchin' this kid for 3 yrs and he's the real deal. Amazing leader and great poise in the pocket. We may have a shot at him, but I think he will be gone by the time we get to him.

If, in fact we drafted a mobile QB it would give us time to finalize our line and still make plays out of the pocket and convert those 3rd downs that we NEVER convert.

THAT, my fellow chiefs, is how you keep your Defense healthy and off the #@$! field! a great part of the game!

Seriously, it's getting really hard to watch our offense.......because there is NONE. Pretty bad with all the weapons we have in the killer B's. We do need a legit #2 back. TJ has to go. Why aren't we using McClain at TB some?

I see where you are going with that, but I dont want to end up turning RG3 into Michael Vick Jr. Not that Vick is bad. But he is 10 times better as a pure QB when he has a decent OL. See Vick last year vs this year. Last year their OL did a lot better. Because of that, Vick was disciplined and looked like a great passer. This year, he has poor blocking and looks to run at the 1st chance he gets instead of looking downfield. The result of that: Vick is constantly injured and turns it over a lot.

hardcorechiefsfan
12-13-2011, 12:15 AM
i can't believe im seeing people say why did we get rid of haley?they are also saying i will miss him,oh he did a good job,we shoulda gave him another year,...are you kidding me,this cancer ruined our team this year.palko should have never been on the football field,better yet he should have never been on the roster,.haley did not get along with his players either,ive been to enough games the last two years to see that.if your players hate you they are not going to play for you.he is not a head coach for sure,and don't expect cowher to be here either,he would go to a more built team than a messed up team like the chiefs.i just hope we get someone decent for our next head coach
The chiefs don't have a very good record for HC's that are hired to pull them out of the dumpster. The chiefs are a team that gets no respect. Who do you think is willing to to be the next head coach knowing who all went before him to try to make the chiefs winners couldn't do it. We need a HC that is willing to stick his neck out for a losing team, grow to love this team like Kansas City loves its football team, nurture team confidence so they have a reason to win. The guys not willing to be the HC we need but will do it for the money - they will want big money to be with a losing team that might embarrase them.

kcnation
12-13-2011, 12:17 AM
i really don't know but we had so many winning teams when marty was here but could not get to the big game.at least we were consistantly in the playoffs in the 90's so who ever we get has to be willing to give it time to get us to the promise land

hardcorechiefsfan
12-13-2011, 12:23 AM
Very true. At least Marty left if he couldn't take them to Superbowl instead of hang around, getting his paycheck anyway. I respect him for that. You have to say though that the chiefs were feared then.

hardcorechiefsfan
12-13-2011, 12:26 AM
But I was talking about the post-Marty era.

tornadospotter
12-13-2011, 12:35 AM
I am shocked, but not surprised, I an shocked that it happen now, but not surprised that it happen.

chief31
12-13-2011, 03:13 PM
You HONESTLY think Haley was solely responsible for the development of EVERY SINGLE PLAYER Edwards drafted? wow

No. And I never made any implication to that effect.




Haley had that same combination the year before... and since Haley was solely responsible for the development of those players, by your reasoning, the offense SHOULD have been just as great in '09 as it was in '10.

Again, I never made the slightest implication to Haley being the sole influence on player development.

No need to invent an argument. We have a good one going, without all that.

But your suggestion that '09, Haley's first year of working with these players, should have been identical to his second has you implying that there is no such thing as development.

Where are you at on the subject? I seriously can't tell.

It sure seems like you are in favor of any word that sheds a bad light on Todd Haley, even when you have to change your mind from your last statement.




All season during 2009 you saw youtube video after video surface of Haley cussing someone out. Hunt told him to knock it off in 2010 and we didn't see many issues, but it came back in a huge way this season and to think it ever went away behind the scenes is just naive.

I must have missed where Hunt told Haley to "knock it off".

And I have definitely missed all the 2011 youtube videos of Haley's "meanness" toward players returning in a huge way.

You got any links for that?



Little distracted last year, having twins will do that to you. I just happen to be off today and the girls are with their grandparents. Finally got a day to myself and I've enjoyed not doing much but talking Chiefs football all day. Is it ok if I go pick out a Christmas tree with my family? I might be away a little while... :D

Hope they aren't treating you to too much craziness. :D

But the timing of your availability is every bit as suspiscious as those who hate the team, and take four weeks off from posting, while the team does well, only to come back with a vengeance, when they lose one.

But then, you have already displayed your "I TOLD YOU SO" motive.

So why bother to argue it?



...oh, and I DID TELL YOU SO

As soon as all the BS with Gonzo and Waters happened, I already knew he was going to be a poor head coach...

... and said as much here on Feb 27, 2009: wow... now we need to replace Waters!! - Kansas City Chiefs Forums (http://www.chiefscrowd.com/forums/showthread.php?t=7201)

This guy's attitude since he got here has been horrid. Any monkey humpin a coconut could've won 10 games with our schedule last season.

And yet Herm couldn't even beat the bad teams, as Haley did.

This team is not some juggernaut. that is so much better than those ten teams to match your ridiculous remark here.

I can not take you too seriously on this subject, because you and I both know that you are not entirely sincere about it.

It's all about your bitterness toward Herm's replacement. Hence the attempts to steal every ounce of credit from Haley (despite having already stated that he had almost won you over, which I do not believe.) and giving the credit to Herm Edwards.

Hey.......


I didn't like Todd Haley either.

But winning ten of sixteen games, no matter which NFL teams you play, especially with what we both know to be a less than stellar team, won the man some slack with me.

As opposed to holding my grudge, I let it go, because he proved me wrong. And he proved you wrong too.

This season, the injuries are just way too deep to not lower expectations.

And the claims of his fighting with players are limited to a single claim by Bowe. I have not seen anything similar to 2009 Haley, this season.

Yet you paint the picture of 2009 Haley having returned "in a huge way".

azchiefsfan
12-13-2011, 03:23 PM
I would think that is in reference the the losing Haley did in 2009 and now.